I wonder if the reason her writings were destroyed was because they reflected badly on her family and the friends who destroyed the writings didn't want that to get out.
What a shame that all her writings were destroyed. It could have been an insight to her life and the relationship with her parents. Thank you for sharing her story. 💝
I imagine what she wrote was pretty unflattering to them. Respectability politics were huge back then, they probably didn’t want what she wrote to get out and potentially embarrass the family
I’m so glad you wrote so lovingly about Lucia she was so talented but was not understood and in the Joyce family there was only room for one star and that was her father. Her mother Nora had mental problems herself, as alcohol played a big part in the Joyce family I’m sure her pregnancies where not very healthy. I’m sorry that she ended in an asylum, like many talented people she was very labil ❤️
Wait so her family flees Paris when the Nazis invade in the 30s and LEAVE HER THERE in a hospital? Given what the Nazis were already known to be doing to the chronically ill, that is freaking appalling.
Some of them ended up getting a lobotomy too. And not just outspoken or severely mentally ill. If there were not seen as normal to society, they could have been put away or given. lobotomy.
You don't have to be mentally ill to be "locked away" by your family. My family tried to have me committed and after the interview they said I didn't need to be there. All you have to be for your family to disown you is DIFFERENT.
In the early decades of the 1900s, husbands could have their wives committed to a sanitarium because they needed “a rest”; code for unsatisfactory attitude.
Mr. Beckett, who's the work I'm familiar with, that was a really a terrible thing he did to her. Imagine falling in love with a man only to have him tell you that he never loved you, he only was dating you in order to meet your father! That would mess with my mind also
After 20 years of marriage, my husband told me that he never loved me. He only married me to get his Mother & Grandmother off his back about getting married & having children.
Lucia’s upbringing was not conducive for mental health. She clearly had a difficult relationship with her mother. Although she was surrounded by very talented people in Paris, they were not the nurturing types. You couldn’t really imagine them being any help to a troubled young woman. Maybe if she had have been able to continue with her dance career it might have helped her mental health. Whatever the case, it’s a sad story of a talented and beautiful woman who’s life was blighted by mental health in an era when it wasn’t well understood
@@rosemaryfranzese317 too much pressure to succeed. The mother is the easy target to blame and get angry at. There's some trauma being hidden in her past.
The fact that her family not only treated her so poorly in life but then tried to erase her existence after she died is so messed up. She could've been a great writer, a great dancer, but it sounds as if she was too opinionated for her family's liking rather than having any actual mental illness. Thank you for sharing her story.
SO interesting, thank you! It always blows my mind when you connect famous people at points in time. Joyce, Beckett, Jung, Picasso, Stravinsky... it somehow brings these lives to life even more, knowing that they hung out. (I like to try to imagine what was happening around the world at any given time in history too.) So glad Lucia is now known and remembered, at least to your viewers. Sounds like she was ahead of her time and born 100 years too early to be understood. Thank you for all the work you put into these, love your work! ❤
No one should be erased from history, especially if one isn't evil. Thanks for this expose on Lucia Joyce. I wouldn't have known about her at all otherwise.
Yes, sadly I imagine her writings were destroyed so no one could read them because considering how awful she was treated they probably reflect very badly on the family and Joyce(especially in Ireland) was idolised
I bet my life that all her writings were destroyed because it wss evidence and proof that her family was mistreating her and quite possibly were the ones inflicting such toxic behaviors and projecting their own uglyness upon her to the point it made her question everything she knew of herself and all probly cuz they lived in fear that she would become more famous Uhhh the pure and utter dispicableness of toxic parents The poor girl was sadly stripped of her dreams and used and discarded by the people she thought she could trust I am so heartbroken for this was such a tragic tale
Thank you....I really enjoyed your film.... I am irish ....its so sad to think she was just left in a large institution.....Its another loss that her letters and writings were burned... I hope she treated kindly....
I think James Joyce strongly "encouraged" Lucia to cease dancing because she was very good and was beginning to gain notoriety. In HIS world there could be only one star. I think that review wherein it was inferred that in the future, people might refer to James Joyce merely as "Lucia's father" stuck in his egotistical craw. He was an enormous narcissist and had a reputation for being manipulative and controlling. He destroyed her spirit. I wouldn't be surprised if he sabotaged her romance with Samuel Beckett. Lucia's mother looked like a very cold, uncaring woman. She could have been jealous of Lucia for being the stunning beauty that she was not. I'm glad to know that Beckett visited her in the asylum. She must have felt so abandoned and alone. Wonderful presentation!
Especially since the home was a boarding house for many scholars in the day. She was very attractive and had a great personality. Many take that as an invitation for their own personal gains. So tragic that the family was uninterested in her life.
I remember reading about James Joyce and her on Wikipedia. I might have attempted to read a book written by James Joyce and wanted to learn more about him and his history and family. I was reminded of another dancer while reading a book about Mata Hari, but couldn’t remember her name. Turns out it was Lucia Joyce. Thanks for sharing.
Thank you for pulling her out of the obscurity to which was condemned, not by mental illness, but by her family's ignorance and emotional abuse. Perhaps her real reasons for giving up dance would have been revealed in her writing had it not all been destroyed. Something in her writing must have been a major threat to her family and to her father's legacy. Was there no friend in whom she confided the truth of her life? I find the "diagnosis" of schizophrenia almost laughable. Put together her abrupt departure from dance with the appalling rejection of Beckett, and her complicated relationship with her mother (we don't know in what ways the relationship was complicated. Possibly another reason for trying to make her disappear altogether), and you have all the ingredients necessary for severe depression. Violent outbursts directed at her mother? I should think so. A sign of bipolar disorder.as someone commented? Doubt it. Repress rage long enough and it will find a way to uncork itself. It seems she was sane enough to direct it at the right person, or at least one of them. Sleeping in doorways? Descend deep enough into depression and any value you might have put upon yourself disappears. None of her behaviour is in any way indicative of insanity. If she was unable to confide in someone who might have helped, then acting out may have been her only way of expressing her mental and emotional distress. . Setting a fire in the living room? Leaving the gas on? Attempts to commit both suicide and homicide at once? Unbuttoning the trousers of male guests? Did she have a concealed knife at the time? Think about male power and abuse (not necessarily sexual) then consider Lorena Bobbitt. It's extremely disappointing to learn that Jung was somehow persuaded to destroy his notes. What on earth had this young woman said and written that was such a threat that her existence had to be wiped out? Someone, somewhere knows a thing or two. You don't spend 50 years in an asylum without telling someone the truth. What a terrible, dark, depressing tale of destruction, both from the inside and the outside.
Agree with your post.And even if it wasn't sexual abuse,it could have been other abuse.Maybe her mother took out her frustrations of her common law marriage on Lucia.We really don't know.Wr will never know but she needs to be remembered.
Her behaviour doesn't reflect deep-seated rage alone. Her problems developed in her late teens and early twenties, exactly when most cases of schizophrenia show up.
Hello Forgotten Lives, thank you for another spectacular video. 💯 💯 My mum listen to your last compilation video of the Mitford sisters and loved your voice and content. I'm soo pleased she enjoyed your video, since I enjoyed them from the beginnings of your channel. It's wonderful to share your content with an important person in my life. 🥰
The Story of Lucia Joyce brought me to such sadness And tears, horrid that her family was not more encouraging Seems there was little emphathy for this beautiful Woman Gosh such a long life in an Institution. Thanks you *Forgotten Lives I am an aging Iirsh senior .✍️ Mary Canada 🇨🇦
Yet another excellent video! I can't imagine what it was like to realize she was surrounded by famous people. The pressure to achieve must have been tremendous.
Great biography, I had heard of Lucia Joyce but you added a lot of detail that I didn't know. Could you consider looking into the life of Suzanne Valadon, who modelled for Renior and Toulouse L' Trec and became an artist herself?
She sounded like she was bipolar but I am not an expert. Her behavior sounds more like my former roommate's behavior. That is all . Regardless of what was wrong, her story is both sad and tragic. She wasn't treated well by her family. RIP Lucia. 💔
Nah I think Joyce just didn't want the attention away from him. It was very easy then to commit an outspoken "crazy" family member and get rid of them as an obstacle. Just look what Joseph Kennedy did to his daughter.
Cptsd with psychotic breakdown my thoughts. Not a reason to lock a daughter away for her entire life. Obviously they kept her locked up to keep her embarrassing truth (story )from getting out. During a psychotic episode they can relive act out past trauma. She was very angry about it obviously trying to set the place on fire and angry at her mother probably for not protecting her.
When i hear your intro music, i know the magic of your voz follows, telling us old time of great story. Welcome FLives! Thank you for your help and effort
You really should be proposed to an International Prize for your Channel. The work you do is absolutely OUTSTANDING, BLOODY BRILLIANT! Excuse these last expressions, but I am helpless to explain my adoration of your Channel here on UA-cam. Not only, that your astounding Intelligence and hard Work blows me off . . . But you are also a beautiful Man! If you allow me to mention this. If not, I apologize! THANK YOU BY HEART🤝🏆🌹
I really enjoy your channel all the way down here in New Zealand. A suggestion for a story is Kate Sheppard. New Zealand was the first country in the world to give women the right to vote, and Kate was the suffragette who made this happen. She features on our $10 note. She's famous here, but unknown to the rest of the world. She led a really interesting life in a time when many men preferred that women stayed at home, kept quiet, and didn't get involved in politics! Your subscribers would find her interesting I'm sure.
Thank you for presenting this video. I think it is one of the saddest cases that I have ever heard. Greetings from Dimboola, in Victoria, Australia 🇦🇺.
You're one of the few who actually make sure your transcript and closed captions work right. To be honest it is the deal breaker for me that keeps me coming back to this channel night after night. The other channels are slacking in case you didn't know, you souks
So sad to hear this and how unfair and hard for ppl with aby type of mental issues 😢 I really wish her writings had been saved. Very noble of her former boyfriend to take care of her financial needs after her father had passed.
What a macabre life she was sentenced to by her own family. Why burning up all correspondence? Makes no sense to me. Thanks as always for your great videos 🙏🎼🩰
How very sad (and short-sighted). Thank you. A suggestion: Empress Sunjeonghyo Empress Sunjeonghyo [a] (Korean : 순정효황후; 7 September 1894 - 3 February 1966), was the second wife and first Empress Consort of Sunjong of Korea, the last ruler of the Korean Empire.
I don't think she was really crazy...she was angry at being controlled and stifled...her Mother and Father were Jealous and she was Jilted...she Snapped! 😢
Back then women were institutionalised by their families when they were considered to have deviated from the social mores of those times. They were often not suffering from any mental illnesses as they are understood today, but rather from “moral insanity”. “Moral insanity” was a broad term that encompassed many things, such as having sex and especially getting pregnant out of wedlock, declining a proposal of marriage from a man that her parents had arranged and approved of because you loved someone else, or even because you didn’t want to marry at all. You could be committed because you didn’t want to “share” your inheritance with your husband or brother. Having someone committed was a convenient way of disposing of them, if you could afford it. Fathers and husbands would confer with doctors who were usually male, money changed hands and a diagnosis was made, and after that the woman would be listened to even less and stigmatised for life. Institutionalisation was not meant to cure you, but to punish you We don’t know what happened behind closed doors, but Joyce stopped her from having a career in dance and almost erased her existence. For that alone I don’t like the man, acclaimed author or not.
GREAT VIDEOS, THANK YOU!! 🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟 What a lovely lady, so sad that she endured a very TRAGIC life! 🥺 I wonder if there was some sort of abuse that happened to her? Did she suffer schizophrenic episodes AFTER being sent to become a patient of Carl Jung? Just a Thought. 🤔
It is so sad that they tried to wipe out her existance, very little was known about mental illness and what they thought they knew did more harm than good.
This reminds me of a story about a female artist who was sent to a mental hospital around the same time period. She was a muse or something. She was known as promiscuous and possibly a lesbian. She was left to die in Paris asylum
Even the annual celebration at her grave has to do not with her, butvwith her father. Doesn't he have his own grave? There are many clues in this story that hint at was really going on behind the curtain of alleged mental illness.
So sad that her writings were destroyed and why didn't her mother visited her "shame" no doubt of having a child of her with mental illness. A significant portion of her life will never be known unless maybe all friends refused to destroy their letter. So very sad when there were attempts to erase her life. Lucia deserves to be remembered. 😞😞😞😞😢😢
I have seen many pictures of victims of narcissists. They all have "far away eyes" similar than those of soldiers with ptsd. It's called "the 1000 yards stare". Just compare her eyes with the arrogant eyes and faces of her mother. Most victims of narcissistic abuse have been (and still are) diagnosed as bipolar, depressive, schizofrenic...instead of complex psdt. That's been the way to get rid of relatives due to narcissistic envy or just to get their share of the family's estate and money. It happens everywhere around the world.
There weren’t good treatments then. Major disorders can’t be treated with analysis alone. On a happier note, maybe a mini series on famous singers like Callas, Yma Sumac, Lind, etc.
There are no good treatments for schizophrenia today either (other than very lengthy, dedicated one-on-one psychotherapy of the kind only a handful of patients ever receive).
Before anyone comes at me I "think", just one of millions with an opinion or thoughts. IMO or thoughts both parents may have been tanked when mom conceived. They had no real money yet so how good was prenatal care? Mom seems wacky. Problem didn't start until that article.....dad was jealous of her talent, mom was jealous of her looks. Very sad because she was a beautiful woman. Why go to such lengths to erase her history, something was up...
It is so sad to see a young woman with such promise to fall into mental illness that only could be managed at that time in a hospital setting. She was lucky to have had people who were family friends care for her after the death of her parents. But, it is such a waste to see someone so young and promising have her life destroyed by mental illness that kept her from being able to live a full life. I find it terrible that the nephew destroyed her letters with her father and her writings. There could have been such a treasure trove of insights into the family and the great writer himself, especially since he seemed to be the most affected by Lucia's illness. It also would have been wonderful to have a glimpse into Lucia's life and thinking before mental illness took hold of her.
I am happy history has remembered this beautiful woman 💝 what a heartbreaking struggle & to have everyone who ever known you , try their best to erase your very existence ...
@@meighenhelmick3697 I’m so sorry for your pain all those years😢. I hope you have recovered from some of it as any emotional/ physical pain is hard to work thru. 👵🏻👩🌾❣️
My first and most overwhelming thought. Didn't state it in my comment. Not sure why, especially as I experienced it, but never recognised it until late in life. It doesn't occur to you that your mother could be jealous of you. That's what makes it so poisonous.
Sounds like she was kept down by her family. I bet her father didn’t like that review that questioned his ability to continue to shine in comparison to his daughter
@@ForgottenLives They don't have a great reputation for organization and the quality of their contractors. Also they were fined quite heavily by the Federal Trade Commision in the US for complaints of sharing sensitive health data with parties such as Facebook and Snapchat for advertising. This was despite a promise to keep such information private.
@@ForgottenLives The two of you, I think could do a collaboration. You both have empathy in telling your stories. I'm also an old lady and you are both adorable!!! It would be a win win for me! Maybe something along the lines of missing people?
In Florida you can still be baker acted. And that means anyone can call the police on you and tell them you want to hurt yourself. And that's it. They can take you away and throw you into an old fashioned style asylum. For the first few days they mix women with men which can be very dangerous. I was baker acted. It was horrific and I didn't deserve it. I can only imagine how things were long ago. I knew I didn't like jung. He was full of it. He probably took advantage of her.
Thanks. Tragic. I would rather be destitute in my right mind than to have all the fame and fortune in the world & be assailed by mental illness. If you can't trust your own thoughts, well... I have dealt with depression and anxiety, so I know a bit. Awful. tavi.
You can't get out of a asylum unless the person who put you in there has to sign a paper saying you are ok to come out so why did she be in there so long I don't think her family cared about her and in those days things were covered up so no one would know she was in there to help her
I wonder if the reason her writings were destroyed was because they reflected badly on her family and the friends who destroyed the writings didn't want that to get out.
I'm 100%they did.
Like Queen Victoria’
Diaries 😮😢
Rightly so by the sounds of it
What a shame that all her writings were destroyed. It could have been an insight to her life and the relationship with her parents. Thank you for sharing her story. 💝
I imagine what she wrote was pretty unflattering to them. Respectability politics were huge back then, they probably didn’t want what she wrote to get out and potentially embarrass the family
Joyce didn't want the attention diverted from his own writing let's be real
Trying to unbutton mens trousers too embarrassing . Something being hidden for sure.
Joyce was ashamed of having syphilis when she was conceived. Get realer. @@NiecieSavo
@@juliefall2892
Narcissists blame their victims with things they have never done.
I have so much respect for the empathetic way you share women's stories.
I’m so glad you wrote so lovingly about Lucia she was so talented but was not understood and in the Joyce family there was only room for one star and that was her father. Her mother Nora had mental problems herself, as alcohol played a big part in the Joyce family I’m sure her pregnancies where not very healthy. I’m sorry that she ended in an asylum, like many talented people she was very labil ❤️
Wait so her family flees Paris when the Nazis invade in the 30s and LEAVE HER THERE in a hospital? Given what the Nazis were already known to be doing to the chronically ill, that is freaking appalling.
I agree, and I think something very traumatic in her past occured.
Tells everything about her family.
James Joyce, her father, was a terrible narcissist.
I can do without the author James Joyce; he is not THAT important - avantgarde? So what? Avantgarde can take many shapes.
Mental illness is a thing but I notice back in those times if a woman was too outspoken she got the Asylum treatment.
Absolutely
Anyone ever read The Yellow Walpaper??
@@sunnyadams5842yes
It was really common back then. Women were committed for everything and anything.
Some of them ended up getting a lobotomy too. And not just outspoken or severely mentally ill. If there were not seen as normal to society, they could have been put away or given. lobotomy.
You don't have to be mentally ill to be "locked away" by your family. My family tried to have me committed and after the interview they said I didn't need to be there. All you have to be for your family to disown you is DIFFERENT.
That's harsh.
I hope things turned out well for you. Take care. ❤
Ugly, cruel betrayal,,,I thank you for speaking out❤
@@lisaheimbigner5481 Thank you for the kind reply. Happy New Year!! 💜
I work in a psychiatric unit and agree with this statement 100%!
In the early decades of the 1900s, husbands could have their wives committed to a sanitarium because they needed “a rest”; code for unsatisfactory attitude.
Mr. Beckett, who's the work I'm familiar with, that was a really a terrible thing he did to her. Imagine falling in love with a man only to have him tell you that he never loved you, he only was dating you in order to meet your father! That would mess with my mind also
ikr i was like wtf i have only been betrayed and used once so i can kind of imagine how upsetting it would be.
Beckett, like James Joyce, was a terrible narcissist.
After 20 years of marriage, my husband told me that he never loved me. He only married me to get his Mother & Grandmother off his back about getting married & having children.
What a beautiful woman she was. Very difficult times to have children that had mental health problems.
Lucia’s upbringing was not conducive for mental health. She clearly had a difficult relationship with her mother. Although she was surrounded by very talented people in Paris, they were not the nurturing types. You couldn’t really imagine them being any help to a troubled young woman. Maybe if she had have been able to continue with her dance career it might have helped her mental health. Whatever the case, it’s a sad story of a talented and beautiful woman who’s life was blighted by mental health in an era when it wasn’t well understood
@@rosemaryfranzese317 too much pressure to succeed. The mother is the easy target to blame and get angry at. There's some trauma being hidden in her past.
Her mental problem was being the scapegoat of a narcissistic family.
@@juliefall2892
Why blame the mother when there is a daughter?
@@Lyrielonwind sorry, I meant that it's very common for children to blame their mother and rage at their mother.
The fact that her family not only treated her so poorly in life but then tried to erase her existence after she died is so messed up. She could've been a great writer, a great dancer, but it sounds as if she was too opinionated for her family's liking rather than having any actual mental illness. Thank you for sharing her story.
SO interesting, thank you! It always blows my mind when you connect famous people at points in time. Joyce, Beckett, Jung, Picasso, Stravinsky... it somehow brings these lives to life even more, knowing that they hung out. (I like to try to imagine what was happening around the world at any given time in history too.) So glad Lucia is now known and remembered, at least to your viewers. Sounds like she was ahead of her time and born 100 years too early to be understood. Thank you for all the work you put into these, love your work! ❤
Intelligentsia drunkards.
Jung suicided and he was not helpful to her either.
Picasso was a malignant narcissist. Just take a look at how his women ended up.
No one should be erased from history, especially if one isn't evil.
Thanks for this expose on Lucia Joyce. I wouldn't have known about her at all otherwise.
Yes, sadly I imagine her writings were destroyed so no one could read them because considering how awful she was treated they probably reflect very badly on the family and Joyce(especially in Ireland) was idolised
I bet my life that all her writings were destroyed because it wss evidence and proof that her family was mistreating her and quite possibly were the ones inflicting such toxic behaviors and projecting their own uglyness upon her to the point it made her question everything she knew of herself and all probly cuz they lived in fear that she would become more famous Uhhh the pure and utter dispicableness of toxic parents The poor girl was sadly stripped of her dreams and used and discarded by the people she thought she could trust I am so heartbroken for this was such a tragic tale
Thank you....I really enjoyed your film.... I am irish ....its so sad to think she was just left in a large institution.....Its another loss that her letters and writings were burned... I hope she treated kindly....
I think James Joyce strongly "encouraged" Lucia to cease dancing because she was very good and was beginning to gain notoriety. In HIS world there could be only one star. I think that review wherein it was inferred that in the future, people might refer to James Joyce merely as "Lucia's father" stuck in his egotistical craw. He was an enormous narcissist and had a reputation for being manipulative and controlling. He destroyed her spirit. I wouldn't be surprised if he sabotaged her romance with Samuel Beckett. Lucia's mother looked like a very cold, uncaring woman. She could have been jealous of Lucia for being the stunning beauty that she was not. I'm glad to know that Beckett visited her in the asylum. She must have felt so abandoned and alone. Wonderful presentation!
Such a shame that the family wanted to erase her existence. Shows they had more to hide than her existsence.
A very petit bourgeois, philistine mindset of the avantgarde author's family.
Lucia, in my opinion, was the victim of childhood S.A, which was dismissed, and ignored by her mother, Jung, and society in general.
from who?
Possibly her father.
I've always suspected that. It could have been a family friend (more likely than her father, but it's impossible to say now).
Which can explain why majority of her writings were destroyed
Especially since the home was a boarding house for many scholars in the day.
She was very attractive and had a great personality. Many take that as an invitation for their own personal gains.
So tragic that the family was uninterested in her life.
I've never heard of this story before. How very sad 😢
I remember reading about James Joyce and her on Wikipedia. I might have attempted to read a book written by James Joyce and wanted to learn more about him and his history and family. I was reminded of another dancer while reading a book about Mata Hari, but couldn’t remember her name. Turns out it was Lucia Joyce. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for this story, I didn't know this lady, just the father. Sad story. Something in her eyes was bizarre. RIP
I'm so glad you are back 🔙☺️.
What a tragedy! Her family was so cruel to her you have to wonder just what went on there.
Thank you for pulling her out of the obscurity to which was condemned, not by mental illness, but by her family's ignorance and emotional abuse.
Perhaps her real reasons for giving up dance would have been revealed in her writing had it not all been destroyed.
Something in her writing must have been a major threat to her family and to her father's legacy. Was there no friend in whom she confided the truth of her life?
I find the "diagnosis" of schizophrenia almost laughable. Put together her abrupt departure from dance with the appalling rejection of Beckett, and her complicated relationship with her mother (we don't know in what ways the relationship was complicated. Possibly another reason for trying to make her disappear altogether), and you have all the ingredients necessary for severe depression.
Violent outbursts directed at her mother? I should think so. A sign of bipolar disorder.as someone commented? Doubt it. Repress rage long enough and it will find a way to uncork itself. It seems she was sane enough to direct it at the right person, or at least one of them. Sleeping in doorways? Descend deep enough into depression and any value you might have put upon yourself disappears. None of her behaviour is in any way indicative of insanity. If she was unable to confide in someone who might have helped, then acting out may have been her only way of expressing her mental and emotional distress. .
Setting a fire in the living room? Leaving the gas on? Attempts to commit both suicide and homicide at once? Unbuttoning the trousers of male guests? Did she have a concealed knife at the time? Think about male power and abuse (not necessarily sexual) then consider Lorena Bobbitt.
It's extremely disappointing to learn that Jung was somehow persuaded to destroy his notes. What on earth had this young woman said and written that was such a threat that her existence had to be wiped out? Someone, somewhere knows a thing or two. You don't spend 50 years in an asylum without telling someone the truth.
What a terrible, dark, depressing tale of destruction, both from the inside and the outside.
I agree with you. She's been deeply traumatized probably sexual abuse .
Agree with your post.And even if it wasn't sexual abuse,it could have been other abuse.Maybe her mother took out her frustrations of her common law marriage on Lucia.We really don't know.Wr will never know but she needs to be remembered.
I think she was a victim of complex ptsd or childhood drama.
I think is obvious her mother saw her as a rival.
Her behaviour doesn't reflect deep-seated rage alone. Her problems developed in her late teens and early twenties, exactly when most cases of schizophrenia show up.
How very sad & tragic! ❤
Thank you for your presentation!
My pleasure!!
Hello Forgotten Lives, thank you for another spectacular video. 💯 💯 My mum listen to your last compilation video of the Mitford sisters and loved your voice and content. I'm soo pleased she enjoyed your video, since I enjoyed them from the beginnings of your channel. It's wonderful to share your content with an important person in my life. 🥰
Thanks 😊
@@ForgottenLives You're welcome. It's always wonderful listening.
The Story of Lucia Joyce brought me to such sadness
And tears, horrid that her family was not more encouraging
Seems there was little emphathy for this beautiful Woman
Gosh such a long life in an Institution.
Thanks you *Forgotten Lives
I am an aging Iirsh senior .✍️
Mary Canada 🇨🇦
Yet another excellent video! I can't imagine what it was like to realize she was surrounded by famous people. The pressure to achieve must have been tremendous.
That was a heartbreaking story
Great biography, I had heard of Lucia Joyce but you added a lot of detail that I didn't know.
Could you consider looking into the life of Suzanne Valadon, who modelled for Renior and Toulouse L' Trec and became an artist herself?
Yes, that would be great!
Great suggestion! Glad you enjoyed!!
She sounded like she was bipolar but I am not an expert. Her behavior sounds more like my former roommate's behavior. That is all . Regardless of what was wrong, her story is both sad and tragic. She wasn't treated well by her family. RIP Lucia. 💔
John 5:28
Revelation 21:3,4
Nah I think Joyce just didn't want the attention away from him. It was very easy then to commit an outspoken "crazy" family member and get rid of them as an obstacle. Just look what Joseph Kennedy did to his daughter.
Cptsd with psychotic breakdown my thoughts. Not a reason to lock a daughter away for her entire life. Obviously they kept her locked up to keep her embarrassing truth (story )from getting out. During a psychotic episode they can relive act out past trauma. She was very angry about it obviously trying to set the place on fire and angry at her mother probably for not protecting her.
When i hear your intro music, i know the magic of your voz follows, telling us old time of great story. Welcome FLives! Thank you for your help and effort
Same ❤
@@Grace.allovertheplace
😊👍💙
You really should be proposed to an International Prize for your Channel.
The work you do is absolutely OUTSTANDING, BLOODY BRILLIANT!
Excuse these last expressions, but I am helpless to explain my adoration of your Channel here on UA-cam.
Not only, that your astounding Intelligence and hard Work blows me off . . .
But you are also a beautiful Man! If you allow me to mention this.
If not, I apologize!
THANK YOU BY HEART🤝🏆🌹
Thanks very much for your kind words!!
I really enjoy your channel all the way down here in New Zealand.
A suggestion for a story is Kate Sheppard. New Zealand was the first country in the world to give women the right to vote, and Kate was the suffragette who made this happen. She features on our $10 note. She's famous here, but unknown to the rest of the world. She led a really interesting life in a time when many men preferred that women stayed at home, kept quiet, and didn't get involved in politics! Your subscribers would find her interesting I'm sure.
Thanks, will look into her!!
Thank you for presenting this video. I think it is one of the saddest cases that I have ever heard. Greetings from Dimboola, in Victoria, Australia 🇦🇺.
Interested story
Of this lovely.
Elegant, lady, so
Sad her dancing
Was sophisticated
As elegant .
I'm going to listen to her
Story again
Thanks❤
Glad you enjoyed it!
Good to see you again..
You're one of the few who actually make sure your transcript and closed captions work right. To be honest it is the deal breaker for me that keeps me coming back to this channel night after night. The other channels are slacking in case you didn't know, you souks
Glad to hear it thanks!
So sad to hear this and how unfair and hard for ppl with aby type of mental issues 😢 I really wish her writings had been saved. Very noble of her former boyfriend to take care of her financial needs after her father had passed.
They sound more like they were trying to hide something. I'd love to know what she wrote about 🤔😒 great job as always ❤.
sad sad story. A truly lovely woman.
Great video ,just discovered your channel and subscribed 🙏..Your voice is amazing and very unique 🌷
Sad story. Always enjoy your videos.
Thanks 👍
What a macabre life she was sentenced to by her own family. Why burning up all correspondence? Makes no sense to me.
Thanks as always for your great videos 🙏🎼🩰
Thanks for watching!
Maybe to cover themselves as rather after they read writings or even if they did not, it may have exposed them in reality for who they were.
Thank you for such a thoughtful biography. I’ve subbed.
Good channel glad to come across it, haven't been online for a bit 😊
Thanks for the visit!!!
How very sad (and short-sighted). Thank you. A suggestion: Empress Sunjeonghyo
Empress Sunjeonghyo [a] (Korean : 순정효황후; 7 September 1894 - 3 February 1966), was the second wife and first Empress Consort of Sunjong of Korea, the last ruler of the Korean Empire.
I will look into her!!
How very sad to be erased for a condition beyond her control.
Always interesting
Thank you
My pleasure!
Interesting story. Thank you.
I don't think she was really crazy...she was angry at being controlled and stifled...her Mother and Father were Jealous and she was Jilted...she Snapped! 😢
That's narcissistic gaslighting! Those assholes were jealous of her! They weakened her!
I'd blame the mother for locking Lucia away in the asylums for 50 years
Why? Her father had a lot more power than Nora, her mother.
@@vaska1999 There are two sides of Lucia's story
Thank you. Enjoyed.
So look forward to your posts!
In those days a simple thing like pms could mean a woman thrown into an asylum for years and years
Poor baby was cross-eyed😢❤
She was beautiful, cross, eyed, or not, if not one of the most beautiful women I’ve ever seen
Maybe she was cross-eyed because her Mother was drinking while she was pregnant with her
Back then women were institutionalised by their families when they were considered to have deviated from the social mores of those times. They were often not suffering from any mental illnesses as they are understood today, but rather from “moral insanity”. “Moral insanity” was a broad term that encompassed many things, such as having sex and especially getting pregnant out of wedlock, declining a proposal of marriage from a man that her parents had arranged and approved of because you loved someone else, or even because you didn’t want to marry at all. You could be committed because you didn’t want to “share” your inheritance with your husband or brother. Having someone committed was a convenient way of disposing of them, if you could afford it. Fathers and husbands would confer with doctors who were usually male, money changed hands and a diagnosis was made, and after that the woman would be listened to even less and stigmatised for life. Institutionalisation was not meant to cure you, but to punish you We don’t know what happened behind closed doors, but Joyce stopped her from having a career in dance and almost erased her existence. For that alone I don’t like the man, acclaimed author or not.
Hugs from Sweden
I never even heard of her until now and I find myself wishing there were some way of finding out more😅
she seemed interesting and had a beautiful and sad look to her
never understand how parents could disown their own child because they are different
I tried better help once and they charged my card for therapy before I even got matched
Always use a credit card, not a debit card--you can call your bank to have a wrong charge like that removed if it's a credit card.
GREAT VIDEOS, THANK YOU!! 🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟
What a lovely lady, so sad that she endured a very TRAGIC life! 🥺
I wonder if there was some sort of abuse that happened to her? Did she suffer schizophrenic episodes AFTER being sent to become a patient of Carl Jung? Just a Thought. 🤔
How can this be right? She needs to be indicted
It is so sad that they tried to wipe out her existance, very little was known about mental illness and what they thought they knew did more harm than good.
Both of those children are beautiful.
That's absolutely aweful....to destroy her work and proof of existence....
This reminds me of a story about a female artist who was sent to a mental hospital around the same time period. She was a muse or something. She was known as promiscuous and possibly a lesbian. She was left to die in Paris asylum
Camille Claudel was her name
Great video! Could you study the finnish writer Mika Waltari who had an egyptian spirit guide... Thanks beautiful boi!
Oh yes!!!! Good suggestion!!!!❤
There is an unknown story in this family, you can just feel it by the way they had everything destroyed.
Even the annual celebration at her grave has to do not with her, butvwith her father. Doesn't he have his own grave?
There are many clues in this story that hint at was really going on behind the curtain of alleged mental illness.
Absolutely terrible
So sad that her writings were destroyed and why didn't her mother visited her "shame" no doubt of having a child of her with mental illness. A significant portion of her life will never be known unless maybe all friends refused to destroy their letter. So very sad when there were attempts to erase her life. Lucia deserves to be remembered. 😞😞😞😞😢😢
I have seen many pictures of victims of narcissists. They all have "far away eyes" similar than those of soldiers with ptsd. It's called "the 1000 yards stare".
Just compare her eyes with the arrogant eyes and faces of her mother.
Most victims of narcissistic abuse have been (and still are) diagnosed as bipolar, depressive, schizofrenic...instead of complex psdt. That's been the way to get rid of relatives due to narcissistic envy or just to get their share of the family's estate and money.
It happens everywhere around the world.
Yes, true
This is so sad 😔 😢
There weren’t good treatments then. Major disorders can’t be treated with analysis alone.
On a happier note, maybe a mini series on famous singers like Callas, Yma Sumac, Lind, etc.
There are no good treatments for schizophrenia today either (other than very lengthy, dedicated one-on-one psychotherapy of the kind only a handful of patients ever receive).
Dont use better help. Go to a therapist in your city or near by. There are a lot critical comments about them.
Such a tragic story.
🖤
How very sad. Why would they want to erase get existence?
Before anyone comes at me I "think", just one of millions with an opinion or thoughts. IMO or thoughts both parents may have been tanked when mom conceived. They had no real money yet so how good was prenatal care? Mom seems wacky. Problem didn't start until that article.....dad was jealous of her talent, mom was jealous of her looks. Very sad because she was a beautiful woman. Why go to such lengths to erase her history, something was up...
It is so sad to see a young woman with such promise to fall into mental illness that only could be managed at that time in a hospital setting. She was lucky to have had people who were family friends care for her after the death of her parents.
But, it is such a waste to see someone so young and promising have her life destroyed by mental illness that kept her from being able to live a full life.
I find it terrible that the nephew destroyed her letters with her father and her writings. There could have been such a treasure trove of insights into the family and the great writer himself, especially since he seemed to be the most affected by Lucia's illness.
It also would have been wonderful to have a glimpse into Lucia's life and thinking before mental illness took hold of her.
Their pride wouldn't allow the truth to come out from Lucia's point of view I suspect.
I am happy history has remembered this beautiful woman 💝 what a heartbreaking struggle & to have everyone who ever known you , try their best to erase your very existence ...
Wow😲‼️. They just erased her very existence 🫣. What an absolute shame to destroy EVERYTHING 🤬. 👵🏻👩🌾❣️
My parents have done the same thing with me. Only child. I was never wanted and reminded every day. Some people don't deserve to be parents.
@@meighenhelmick3697
I’m so sorry for your pain all those years😢. I hope you have recovered from some of it as any emotional/ physical pain is hard to work thru. 👵🏻👩🌾❣️
@@deecooper1567 thank you 😊
What is the city you keep saying? I’m sorry, I keep trying to get it….🤷♀️
Trieste!
I read the town name in the transcript.
Her mother was probably jealous of her and pressed her father to end her career
My first and most overwhelming thought. Didn't state it in my comment. Not sure why, especially as I experienced it, but never recognised it until late in life. It doesn't occur to you that your mother could be jealous of you. That's what makes it so poisonous.
Sounds like she was kept down by her family. I bet her father didn’t like that review that questioned his ability to continue to shine in comparison to his daughter
Hey y'all 😮
I refuse to watch another video sponsored by those people.
Any reason? So I can know why not to work with them again
@@ForgottenLives They don't have a great reputation for organization and the quality of their contractors. Also they were fined quite heavily by the Federal Trade Commision in the US for complaints of sharing sensitive health data with parties such as Facebook and Snapchat for advertising. This was despite a promise to keep such information private.
You're beautiful. As a person as well as aestheticly.😊
Telling you, reach out to That Chapter!
What do you have in mind?
@@ForgottenLives The two of you, I think could do a collaboration. You both have empathy in telling your stories. I'm also an old lady and you are both adorable!!! It would be a win win for me! Maybe something along the lines of missing people?
She may have had schizophrenia. Many people were “locked away”.
In Florida you can still be baker acted. And that means anyone can call the police on you and tell them you want to hurt yourself. And that's it. They can take you away and throw you into an old fashioned style asylum. For the first few days they mix women with men which can be very dangerous. I was baker acted. It was horrific and I didn't deserve it. I can only imagine how things were long ago. I knew I didn't like jung. He was full of it. He probably took advantage of her.
I’m usually against asylums but this girl was a danger.
❤
Thanks. Tragic. I would rather be destitute in my right mind than to have all the fame and fortune in the world & be assailed by mental illness. If you can't trust your own thoughts, well... I have dealt with depression and anxiety, so I know a bit. Awful. tavi.
A couple of eccentric parents. No wonder …
You can't get out of a asylum unless the person who put you in there has to sign a paper saying you are ok to come out so why did she be in there so long I don't think her family cared about her and in those days things were covered up so no one would know she was in there to help her
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