the owner does not love their VW. looks like that oil was 10000 miles overdue. I bet it's the wrong oil too. Great diagnosis Ivan, your awesome for sure and for certain!
Hysteresis is a well known (to some) of the control software designers. A quite common reason for endless oscillation of the control is an unexpected delay between input and output. This causes the control circuit to overshoot and then overcorrect. This Volkswagen was a great example. First the there is more and more input and no movement. Then the actuator finally moves or jumps, but now you have too much outcome, thus input to system is decreased, but the control sticks again and does not react, so software keeps cutting down the input. And when the adjuster finally moves, it undershoots and you have vibrator there, process starts over again.. One form of hysteresis is delay and in this case excess friction caused the delay. You could code the SW to make a fault code in case there is a constant mismatch between input and output, but this SW did not have it. I guess that the Crank-cam correlation error code was generated due adjuster getting totally stuck when cold, but there is no "Cam adjuster unresponsive" fault code, as this controller did get itself into a endless loop.
Fantastic definition of hysteresis right there. Indeed it was caused by excessive friction of the mechanical part of the mechanism! Always enjoy reading your comments :)
Great case study Ivan! Well done! 👍 On a related note,I'm still amazed of the bashing that goes on in the comments section when it comes to European vehicles. Most of the comments come from folks that have never owned one,nor worked on one. They just sit in front of the screen watching UA-cam videos and think they are " diagnosticians ". How many times have we seen camshaft actuators fail on GM products?! That VW has not seen an oil change in ages and then people blame European vehicles for " poorly designed " parts. 🙄
I've always found them quite straight forward to diagnose & repair since they're all I work on. Indeed some things are done differently so extrapolating how you think it should work based on American or Japanese cars may send you down the rabbit hole.
Probably one thing that upsets people is that this happened on a fairly recent model year (2014). But any modern car with an overdue oil change will mess it up pretty bad (with all those sensors and electronic systems).
Very easy to graph commanded vs. actual intake degrees with VCDS. Had one today same deal, cleaned the N205 and good to go until a new one arrives. Love your channel, you put Scotty KillMe to shame! These symptoms can also be from a wonky front wideband O2 sensor, easily graphed also. Normal crankcase vacuum is around 110 millibars at the dipstick tube.
Just subbed to your channel. Fantastic Diagnostic work, theory of operation to actual testing and real life repairs. Thank you for taking the time to make informative videos. you are a professional troubleshooter, regardless of make and model. and that speaks volumes to your dedication in the field which unfortunately has gone by the wayside in many techs in the field.
This is the f'in fix for this problem right here... Thank you very much! Exact problem my daughter has been having for about 4 months now with the same car... No codes {except misfires}. Great job young man you are The Man. We need more mechanics like you actually finding the problem other throwing parts at it. Last mechanic wanted to change the crank sensor. Give me a link and I will send you money for your time.
My 2014 Passat 1.8 turbo tdi, would run rough or stall when cold. Dealer replaced the timing belt under warranty used car 1 week after purchased. Issue came back. Replaced the timing magnet after watching this video because I also notice the magnet pin was hard to press and the new one moved freely. After using carb cleaner on the old one it also moved freely. At this point I just put in the new magnet, issue never returned. It gets lubricated with engine oil, my theory is that oil gunk caused the pin to get stuck while the pin was still cold, but functioned ok once it heated up. Needless to say prolonging oil changes or using the wrong oil might cause the magnet pin to gunk up. This video saved this car. The vw 1.4 have the same magnet too.
Wow nice monitor this guy has ☺ Makes it more easy to see what's happening on the scope and scan tool. Thanks Ivan, it's always nice to see your videos. Have yourself a great weekend and greetings from the Netherlands!
Great video Ivan! As always, love how you tackle the problems. No wild guesses and no bullshit. Just approaching the problems systematically and applying logical thinking you always get things fixed. Good job. Greetings from Iceland.
Thanks Amar! Yes, general engineering principles can be applied to many problems with great success. It takes some time the first go-around to learn the system, but the acquired knowledge pays for itself in the future :)
Been dealing with the misfires off and on the past year and a half. Part of the reason for such a long time is it was basically non-existent during the warmer months, so couldn’t really troubleshoot it. Thanks for the video explaining it all, going to put my new magnet on tonight. Subbed!
This guy is a freaking genius. My specified timing at idle was 10ﾟ. It was fluctuating between 3 and 20. Put on new German part and viola. Now actual timing hugs specified timing perfect on graph. Thank you thank you thank you. Everybody at my shop wanted me to take the intake manifold off and clean out carbon from the valves
Cool Ivan! I've worked on several control systems in my career. The problem here is static friction or sticktion. Static friction is always higher than dynamic friction. In hydraulic spool valves they inject a high frequency dither in the command to always keep it moving to keep it from sticking.
Nice work up and repair! It's all too common to see mechanics fix cars by just throwing lots of new parts at the problem. You did this right. I would not attribute too much of the part's malfunction to sparse oil changes. It just wore out.
Thank you very much for posting this video. It turned out to be a great help for me in confirming my own theories on a similar vehicle and problem. I was repairing a 2016 Jetta GLi 2.0l turbo TSi (CPLA engine). It has 121 000km on it, seems poorly maintained and almost exactly the same symptoms. I was pulling my hair out as the problem only appears at idle and only approximately 90 seconds from cold startup. This is when the intake cam phaser wants to advance 10 degrees but couldn't get there with a sticking pintle. The new cam magnet actuator is very free but I was unsure if that was due to it being dry and oil-free or jjust known good. Turns out that pintle needs to be VERY free to work well. Thanks again and keep on diag'ing away, you have a great future. From an older tech to a younger one, cheers!
I appreciate your videos pt 1,2. The way you explained everything kepted me interested, even the hysteresis story. Also wanted to state that I don't know much about cars but I honestly believe that I went through this exact problem with my car since about 60k and is currently at 90k. Kept getting camshaft position sensor codes. I was losing oil and the source of the leak couldn't be found. My oil would turn dark even after 4wks of an oil change. Was running rough for a while and I personally replaced the camshaft sensor. Ran ok for about a week then went back to rough. The last day that I drove the car, it was accelerating and decelerating on its own. Once I reached my destination I attempted to restart the car with no luck. My car is in the hands of a mechanic who informed me that the engine is blown and oil was negative of oil shavings. I have this feeling that my European engineered vehicle can be saved. Especially since I still owe money on the loan. I would sincerely appreciate your perspective on what you think I should do.
Thank you for showing me this . Fixed neighbor's 2017 va 1.8l turbo . Same problem . Cleaned solinoid with brake cleaner through the small holes .lots of junk came out . Runs great now !
Good job Ivan! Hey got a tip for you. Next time you get a vvt issue with a solenoid use your Pico. Put a current clamp on it and watch for an open hump on the ramp. If you don't see one it's not opening. Also if you pulse the solenoid with a jumper wire see if the hump moves or stays in place. If the opening hump moves, this means it is sticking. I learned this in a John Thornton class. Even this design is a little different I think it would have worked. It has a magnet and a mechanical link. If you have time I would go back and try it. Have a good day Ivan.🙂
One of my best friends gets a VW for super cheap lease, since his wife's relative works for VW corporate. One car they got was throwing "cam actuation slow" (or something to that effect) codes - told him to change the oil, and that fixed it! VW's are odd ducks, for sure. Never knew what a triple square was until I had to work on his daughter's '06 Jetta. Was my first foray into a vacuum pump too! What an odd system! Thing was puking oil like no tomorrow. Service info wants you to yank the transmission to replace the entire pump! I just removed the shifter linkage, popped the cover off, gave her a good dose of Permatex Right Stuff, and she's been leak-free for over 2 years now. :) Definitely not my favorite brand to work on ...
Ivan, excellent video. You nailed that diagnosis. It was like the reverse of a bad CAM sensor, the engine got better as it got warmer. It would be good to explore what went wrong with the CAM actuator, was it a worn pin, was it crud in the old oil, would a spray of brake cleaner (pause for Eric O anthem) fix it?
Ray Vandegrift, 18k oil changes seems legitimate in a lot of newer EU cars (long life oil, Castrol Edge LL 5-30w), i do mine at 5-8k as I do lots of stop and starting, dont really trust doing 15-18k miles oil changes (2007 1.8 tdi PD engine so don't have to wurry about vvt problems or intercooler filing up, does Have a DPF though but not been an issue yet after 25k miles added after me been the new owner of it, with 255k miles on the clock total) only issue I have with it is slight jumpy engine sometimes when idle and a rumble noise when running up the
In my experiance oil changes are critical for any valve timing controlled car, You wouldn't believe the cars I see with correlation codes and there is NO oil in it or the oil looks like tar used for paving roads. Lol
Looks like there is a control loop there maybe a PID but of course the camshaft is bad so the computer will command it wrong . I'm surprised it didn't fire any error . Your understanding of these systems without having any data at hand is really amazing since you are not an engineer . These TSI early models had chain problems but they are solved I think for the newer ones ... also oil change is crucial .
Nice solve! That ramp on the control signal looks like the kind of thing that a PID controller might produce - the integral term will accumulate error over time with a stuck actuator. I wonder if the control system might have a sanity threshold on the control signal - if nothing happens beyond say 55% duty cycle, give up and try again, hence the repeated ramping at idle.
Reminds me of PIO (pilot induced oscillation) we would see in new pilots. Over correcting back and forth. In the old days we would drill a larger hole in the cam gear and insert an offset bushing to advance timing for drag racing. Things have changed.
Hey new subscriber here ! I just wanted to say I own a 2015 Jetta SE / TSI 1.8 T and after watching a heap load of other videos because I also have the same problem as the Jetta in your video. I spent hundreds of dollars in other parts going by the other video’s and after seeing your video I went outside and as soon as my car started loping I unplugged the camshaft adjuster magnet and the loping stopped and was running good! I’ll be ordering my new part soon so a million thanks brother !! Awesome video
Great find Ivan! Soon as you brought the Camshaft data up I kind of got a shit grin on my face because the Cam angle was~2% and command was 10% and the way the duty cycle was reacting trying to get it to 10% but wasnt moving so it kept going trying to get it to move and as it did start to move it was sticking and why the cam had the pattern humps going on. Had this EXACT issue on a 08 pontiac G6 with the 3.5L. Uses the same style cam magnet with the pin... Free'd the pin up and vehicle improved but wasnt good and the car had terrible service life with oil changes. That car got a whole timing chain/actuator/magnet/guides to fix as everything was so gunked up and nasty. Great find tho man!
Mechanical hysteresis is pretty common. The magnet spring actuator was obviously not designed tolerant of dirty oil. Some things should not be machined to such a tight fit.
Unfortunately, many owners don't nowadays. I don't swing a wrench for a living anymore, but still do most of my own repairs. Been in the habit of checking under the hood on a weekly basis for years..... and changing oil and fluids religiously. Right now I've got 170,000 miles on a Ram 1500 4.7 4x4 with no premature component failures.... Maintenance matters!
Perhaps you and Charles (humble mechanic)can join forces...the humble Ivan channel. nah...doesnt flow..your a sharp tech Ivan...btw i really enjoyed your vid when you went to your home land and got that old Russian car running...love that kind of stuff. is it still running?
u know ivan i said to myself.....i won't say anything about it....then i saw your comment & couldnt help myself. Get some Krown T40 or Fluid Film while your over there ivan working on the Russian car. Krown Russia > www.krown.msk.ru/ Krown T40 (russian)- www.krown.msk.ru/products/108/ KrownT40 (english) - www.krown.com/products/aerosol-products/rust-protection-and-lubricant/ Not sure in mother russia where one would get fluid film - www.fluid-film.com/frequently-asked-questions/
If something goes wrong with my car? IM CALL YOU IVAN . U THE MAN!! I was convinced it was the computer.. smh More studies I gotta do. Great video Man Thanks Again 👍
great video mate great great find on that part I have one of them Verdict m2 they are fantastic especially when you can just put it under the engine no wires and take the vehicle for a drive
Pine Hollow Auto Diagnostics they're just really handy especially as they strike up instantly you can do some really quick test without trying to strike up the snap on verus or even the Pico are using a lot for relative compression test and just quick testing of sensors it's one of them things once you've got it you will wonder how you live without it
Thank you! I have been fighting this issue for so long. My 2014 VW Jetta SE 1.8t has the EXACT same symptoms. New part should be here .... soon (new years is gonna slow it down). THANK YOU!!
I've seen heavy trucks with vvt and all diesels with hydraulically actuated fuel injectors get very finicky when the oil and filter schedules aren't adhered to. This magnetic actuator may have been faulty but it would have been interesting to crack it open to see why. Good series!
That was a fantastic result. It just demonstrates the power of critical thinking. It would be interesting to see where the flowcharts would have taken this one.
Well done Ivan that is very interesting. Thats what I thought when it was ramping that way was that it was trying to get it to match specified as they call it on the scanner then it would over adjust and cut it off all togeather. Surprising it dont set a code seeing how its able to test itself by making adjustments
Ivan, Next time use the Pico scope to look at phaser response using Current and voltage while monitoring cmp/ckp relations:) while monitoring scanner cmnds. Good job sticking with it!
Parents rented a Passat last year, it had warped brakes, never had an oil change (it was black and had 12,000 on it) AND the oil was over a QUART low. I know it was just a rental, but I read the manual, bought the oil it recommended, and put it in until it was at the full line. My parents were going to drive it 1,200 miles and I didn't want it to seize up on them. They always seem well constructed, but DAMN... I don't think I've ever heard of a good long running VW without bizarre issues. I own Saabs, too, so I'm no stranger to shit breaking every 2 seconds.
A friend of mine has a Lexus he either bought or leased (I'm not sure) and the oil change maintenance light came on. He said he doesn't want to deal with it. I let him now how vitally important it is to keep up with the oil changes, especially with cars that have VVT (which I believe his has). He took my advice and got an oil change.
I find it interesting that the Command in % did almost not change with the cam position with the new "Solenoid" its just hover at 40%. it seems to be a finely tuned system when it's working ;) But a good study as usual Ivan.
I think you should have a standard procedure of asking for the regular maintanance status of each car. These european complex systems are really sensitive to the oil and the fuel they are given. You are one of a few people that do this job right, here in europe most diags just say the standard crap and the issue remains.. I appreciate you showing youtube how to do it right! Cheers!
That was frickin awesome!!! Nice diagnosis! The hysteresis I recall from my engineering classes looked like the Schmidt trigger drawing on the Wikipedia page for hysteresis en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hysteresis Sometimes it's done by design to eliminate bounce or chatter on a switching circuit. I think you nailed it with this one that h ad hysteresis but in a bad way that wasn't by design. All this for free! ;) Thanks again for sharing.
My 2014 VW Passat is doing this exactly...could this also cause burning/using of oil? I've asked multiple mechanics too and no one has ever been able to figure out the oil consumption either, I was also told it was a timing chain so I'm really hoping this fixes mine too! Although I do change my oil at the correct intervals, I do however have 126k miles on my Passat.
Hello sir,thank you for sharing your knowledge with us!! I want to ask you about the yourself energized the magnetic actuator, can we do it before check the timing? I mean if the chain is stretched or the chain has jumped 1 or 2 teeth and the engine run bad as your video can we energize the magnetic without the risk the valves bent to pistons?? Thanks in advance!!
Interesting design for the variable valve timing on this thing. A bit different from the usual oil control solenoid and hydraulically driven cam phaser. I assume it works OK if the magnet isn't clogged with oil sludge or whatever it was in this case. Thumbs down on VW's OBD implementation though. With that much disagreement between commanded and actual cam position, it should have been consistently setting that P0011 code which would have pointed in the right direction immediately. I guess I have to give VW a bit of slack though, it's hard to implement proper diagnostic software when your ECM programmers are so busy writing code to cheat on diesel emissions, lol.
Nice job Ivan, I believe this engine has 2 different cam shaft profiles and the actuator plays a part in oil pressure pysically shifting from one profile to the other - not sure about 8 inHg on the dip stick though seems a a little high to me
Great diagnosis Ivan, I confess I thought is might have been a faulty cam position sensor but what I could not understand was how the car improved as it got to up running temperature (the opposite of usual bad cam sensor). It would be good know what caused the cam advance actuator to stick, was it carbon in the oil, was it a worn actuator pin? Could it be be cured by....(pause for dramatic effect) a spray with brake cleaner?!
Nice video, Ivan. I was thinking a mechanical timing belt/chain/tensioner issue...guess I was sort of right. Probably due to lack of timely oil changes? Pretty sad that the dealer wanted to just throw a timing belt on it.
I bet they did and assumed chain, tensioner, sprockets were all worn as well. which they probably are :) probably just the goofy "counter person" said timing belt in confusion..
They should do a couple quick engine oil and filter changes on this vehicle. It's might be possible for the detergents in the synthetic oil to remove a lot of the carbon deposits building up inside. It's amazing that owners don't do their homework so they understand how critical it is to service these very sophisticated high performance engines. "Pay me now or pay me later" as the man used to say.
What state are you in Ivan? I'm bring my car. I have the exact same car, with the exact same problem. The dealer saying timing belt needs changing, and 2 other shops were scratching their heads. It does burn oil, after the last Oil Change, it needed 3 quarts of Oil at 3K miles later or so. WTF I am going to sell it, after It is fixed. The thing that really bothers me Is that I love the car. It must be reliable tough.
Great work on this video , it almost seems like an oscilloscope is an extension of your mental diagnostic patterns . Seeing that every other diagnostic path was exhausted all that was left was disassembley . You feel you need to be on a waveform vision status with the system under investigation . Using a Thermal Camera is an easier option..., some times disassembley is a very time consuming option on some of these cars just to replace a battery it becomes a career instead of a job your choice .
VW/Audi maintenance maintenance maintenance! You can't take them to jiffy lube or ignore oil change intervals or bad things happen like this. B7 A4 2.0T with 220k, oil change every 5k with Mann Hummel filter and Castrol Synthetic oil. Still going strong!
Hi I primarily work on Volkswagen and I never had to change one yet but on a 2.0 l CCTA on a EOS it's almost the same design it had a fault for timing adjustment out of specs but it was constant and it was running similar but worse I think I even had to check engine base timing and it was okay what I found is the camshaft support bridge has a small metal screen and it was torn and some piece of it got stuck in the mechanical valve on the end of the intake cam what I did is remove the part clean it and reinstall it back problem solved. It would be interesting to see if this car had normal oil change with the proper oil and filter specs ?
I wonder what would have happened if the magnet assembly would have been bathed in carb cleaner overnight? The 30 000 km oil changes are really bad thing. Those are not based on engineering, those are based on EU regulation requiring less oil waste. One way to achieve less waste oil is extending the oil change interval. It is not a good thing for the engine, it's all politics. If I ever buy a vehicle with 30 000 km oil change interval, I will split it half and change the oil and filter every 15 000. I would recommend that for everybody.
A 2017 Jetta I had as a loaner specified a 15000 km or 1 year oil change interval. I imagine that likely works OK if you use oil that meets VW specs (Pennzoil Platinum Euro or something like that). A lot of people with those cars likely just take them to random quick oil change places which put whatever brand of conventional oil in and then the owner still runs it that long between changes, which is definitely asking for trouble.
With 15 000 km oil change interval you can even use good quality mineral oil as the engine has always fresh enough oil not having its ability to absorb dirt particles exceeded. When I buy a used car, I fill it with a mineral based diesel motor oil, like Delvac. Diesel oils have the highest amount of cleaning and dirt absorption additives. First oil change after 5000 km and second mineral for 10 000 km. After that I change to low cost API meet or exceed synthetic and oil keeps itself more or less golden color for the 15 000 - 20 000 km (10 000 -12 500 mile) change interval and the engine keeps itself clean as dirt particle absorption capability of the oil is never exceeded. Long life oil have extra amount of polymer chains added to keep the viscosity up, which mostly works, but is harder to prevent sludge formation. Solution would be increasing the oil capacity, but you can not do that as it would mean that the amount of waste oil is not decreasing and EU would not be happy. To keep your engine clean it is better to buy regular inexpensive oil and change the oil every 10 000 miles than pay a high price of Long Life oil and have dirty engine as a result.
If you would have used a freezing agent as I suggested in Part 1, You would have been able to make the solenoid/plunger STICK in the applied position and seen that the computer was actually commanding an OFF command.
Worst I've seen was a Mercedes GL450, over 32,000 miles overdue for an oil change according to the sticker. Took 6 quarts to register on the dipstick, another 2 to bring it to full. Had to change that engine twice too, customer brought his own motor, no compression on 3 cylinders. But it paid well, and the second swap was super easy.
Hey Ivan. I was wondering if you got a look at the rear o2 after the repair. Was it still pegged out or was it a fix after the cam magnet was replaced?
Great mental discipline to not allow your original hypothesis to blind you to other possibilities. Well done!
the owner does not love their VW. looks like that oil was 10000 miles overdue. I bet it's the wrong oil too. Great diagnosis Ivan, your awesome for sure and for certain!
Randy the Appliance Guy owner doesn't love it.... and she knows it... pitchin a fit!
Hysteresis is a well known (to some) of the control software designers. A quite common reason for endless oscillation of the control is an unexpected delay between input and output. This causes the control circuit to overshoot and then overcorrect. This Volkswagen was a great example. First the there is more and more input and no movement. Then the actuator finally moves or jumps, but now you have too much outcome, thus input to system is decreased, but the control sticks again and does not react, so software keeps cutting down the input. And when the adjuster finally moves, it undershoots and you have vibrator there, process starts over again..
One form of hysteresis is delay and in this case excess friction caused the delay. You could code the SW to make a fault code in case there is a constant mismatch between input and output, but this SW did not have it. I guess that the Crank-cam correlation error code was generated due adjuster getting totally stuck when cold, but there is no "Cam adjuster unresponsive" fault code, as this controller did get itself into a endless loop.
Fantastic definition of hysteresis right there. Indeed it was caused by excessive friction of the mechanical part of the mechanism! Always enjoy reading your comments :)
jannepo should send your note to vw
Great case study Ivan! Well done! 👍
On a related note,I'm still amazed of the bashing that goes on in the comments section when it comes to European vehicles. Most of the comments come from folks that have never owned one,nor worked on one. They just sit in front of the screen watching UA-cam videos and think they are " diagnosticians ". How many times have we seen camshaft actuators fail on GM products?! That VW has not seen an oil change in ages and then people blame European vehicles for " poorly designed " parts. 🙄
As Eric O says, "they're all junk when they're broke" ;)
I've always found them quite straight forward to diagnose & repair since they're all I work on. Indeed some things are done differently so extrapolating how you think it should work based on American or Japanese cars may send you down the rabbit hole.
Nick Nicu totally agree with you 👍
Probably one thing that upsets people is that this happened on a fairly recent model year (2014). But any modern car with an overdue oil change will mess it up pretty bad (with all those sensors and electronic systems).
well put Nick.
Very easy to graph commanded vs. actual intake degrees with VCDS. Had one today same deal, cleaned the N205 and good to go until a new one arrives. Love your channel, you put Scotty KillMe to shame! These symptoms can also be from a wonky front wideband O2 sensor, easily graphed also. Normal crankcase vacuum is around 110 millibars at the dipstick tube.
great work! I love these complicated problems that turn into simple fixes.
Just subbed to your channel. Fantastic Diagnostic work, theory of operation to actual testing and real life repairs. Thank you for taking the time to make informative videos. you are a professional troubleshooter, regardless of make and model. and that speaks volumes to your dedication in the field which unfortunately has gone by the wayside in many techs in the field.
This is the f'in fix for this problem right here... Thank you very much! Exact problem my daughter has been having for about 4 months now with the same car... No codes {except misfires}. Great job young man you are The Man. We need more mechanics like you actually finding the problem other throwing parts at it. Last mechanic wanted to change the crank sensor. Give me a link and I will send you money for your time.
Good to hear, James! Here's my PayPal donations link: www.paypal.me/IvanTemnykh I appreciate your feedback :)
Your attention to detail saved the day on this one. Great closure. That was worth waiting for!
Thanks for the comment Wyatt!
My 2014 Passat 1.8 turbo tdi, would run rough or stall when cold. Dealer replaced the timing belt under warranty used car 1 week after purchased. Issue came back. Replaced the timing magnet after watching this video because I also notice the magnet pin was hard to press and the new one moved freely. After using carb cleaner on the old one it also moved freely. At this point I just put in the new magnet, issue never returned. It gets lubricated with engine oil, my theory is that oil gunk caused the pin to get stuck while the pin was still cold, but functioned ok once it heated up. Needless to say prolonging oil changes or using the wrong oil might cause the magnet pin to gunk up. This video saved this car. The vw 1.4 have the same magnet too.
Wow nice monitor this guy has ☺ Makes it more easy to see what's happening on the scope and scan tool. Thanks Ivan, it's always nice to see your videos. Have yourself a great weekend and greetings from the Netherlands!
Great video Ivan! As always, love how you tackle the problems. No wild guesses and no bullshit. Just approaching the problems systematically and applying logical thinking you always get things fixed. Good job. Greetings from Iceland.
Thanks Amar! Yes, general engineering principles can be applied to many problems with great success. It takes some time the first go-around to learn the system, but the acquired knowledge pays for itself in the future :)
I'm guessing it failed due to not changing the oil frequently enough.
Great diagnosis Ivan, congrats!! You are a great tech, I really enjoy your thought process, very good.
great fault finding procedure, you were great Ivan but Jim is the Man!!!! cheers sandy
Been dealing with the misfires off and on the past year and a half. Part of the reason for such a long time is it was basically non-existent during the warmer months, so couldn’t really troubleshoot it.
Thanks for the video explaining it all, going to put my new magnet on tonight.
Subbed!
This guy is a freaking genius. My specified timing at idle was 10ﾟ. It was fluctuating between 3 and 20. Put on new German part and viola. Now actual timing hugs specified timing perfect on graph. Thank you thank you thank you. Everybody at my shop wanted me to take the intake manifold off and clean out carbon from the valves
Cool Ivan! I've worked on several control systems in my career. The problem here is static friction or sticktion. Static friction is always higher than dynamic friction. In hydraulic spool valves they inject a high frequency dither in the command to always keep it moving to keep it from sticking.
My favorite nerdy comment so far ;) Thanks, Ken!
Nice work up and repair!
It's all too common to see mechanics fix cars by just throwing lots of new parts at the problem. You did this right.
I would not attribute too much of the part's malfunction to sparse oil changes. It just wore out.
Ivan provides and impresses again. Awesome job!
Thank you very much for posting this video. It turned out to be a great help for me in confirming my own theories on a similar vehicle and problem. I was repairing a 2016 Jetta GLi 2.0l turbo TSi (CPLA engine). It has 121 000km on it, seems poorly maintained and almost exactly the same symptoms.
I was pulling my hair out as the problem only appears at idle and only approximately 90 seconds from cold startup. This is when the intake cam phaser wants to advance 10 degrees but couldn't get there with a sticking pintle. The new cam magnet actuator is very free but I was unsure if that was due to it being dry and oil-free or jjust known good. Turns out that pintle needs to be VERY free to work well.
Thanks again and keep on diag'ing away, you have a great future. From an older tech to a younger one, cheers!
I appreciate your videos pt 1,2. The way you explained everything kepted me interested, even the hysteresis story. Also wanted to state that I don't know much about cars but I honestly believe that I went through this exact problem with my car since about 60k and is currently at 90k. Kept getting camshaft position sensor codes. I was losing oil and the source of the leak couldn't be found. My oil would turn dark even after 4wks of an oil change. Was running rough for a while and I personally replaced the camshaft sensor. Ran ok for about a week then went back to rough. The last day that I drove the car, it was accelerating and decelerating on its own. Once I reached my destination I attempted to restart the car with no luck. My car is in the hands of a mechanic who informed me that the engine is blown and oil was negative of oil shavings. I have this feeling that my European engineered vehicle can be saved. Especially since I still owe money on the loan. I would sincerely appreciate your perspective on what you think I should do.
Eric O is going to be so jealous of that giant monitor! Maybe Mrs. O will buy him one for Christmas! Great video and diagnosis!
Thank you for showing me this . Fixed neighbor's 2017 va 1.8l turbo . Same problem . Cleaned solinoid with brake cleaner through the small holes .lots of junk came out . Runs great now !
You’re absolutely incredible. This is exactly what’s wrong with my car
You answered every question I've had about my engine in about 2 hours, various VW shops I've taken mine to have all just quoted me timing chain
Good job Ivan! Hey got a tip for you. Next time you get a vvt issue with a solenoid use your Pico. Put a current clamp on it and watch for an open hump on the ramp. If you don't see one it's not opening. Also if you pulse the solenoid with a jumper wire see if the hump moves or stays in place. If the opening hump moves, this means it is sticking. I learned this in a John Thornton class. Even this design is a little different I think it would have worked. It has a magnet and a mechanical link. If you have time I would go back and try it. Have a good day Ivan.🙂
One of my best friends gets a VW for super cheap lease, since his wife's relative works for VW corporate. One car they got was throwing "cam actuation slow" (or something to that effect) codes - told him to change the oil, and that fixed it!
VW's are odd ducks, for sure. Never knew what a triple square was until I had to work on his daughter's '06 Jetta. Was my first foray into a vacuum pump too! What an odd system! Thing was puking oil like no tomorrow. Service info wants you to yank the transmission to replace the entire pump! I just removed the shifter linkage, popped the cover off, gave her a good dose of Permatex Right Stuff, and she's been leak-free for over 2 years now. :)
Definitely not my favorite brand to work on ...
Ivan, excellent video. You nailed that diagnosis. It was like the reverse of a bad CAM sensor, the engine got better as it got warmer. It would be good to explore what went wrong with the CAM actuator, was it a worn pin, was it crud in the old oil, would a spray of brake cleaner (pause for Eric O anthem) fix it?
oil changes are VERY crucial for the European cars
Ray Vandegrift, 18k oil changes seems legitimate in a lot of newer EU cars (long life oil, Castrol Edge LL 5-30w), i do mine at 5-8k as I do lots of stop and starting, dont really trust doing 15-18k miles oil changes (2007 1.8 tdi PD engine so don't have to wurry about vvt problems or intercooler filing up, does Have a DPF though but not been an issue yet after 25k miles added after me been the new owner of it, with 255k miles on the clock total)
only issue I have with it is slight jumpy engine sometimes when idle and a rumble noise when running up the
In my experiance oil changes are critical for any valve timing controlled car, You wouldn't believe the cars I see with correlation codes and there is NO oil in it or the oil looks like tar used for paving roads. Lol
Very Nice Troubleshooting. And Jim makes his Snap-On rep very happy.
Looks like there is a control loop there maybe a PID but of course the camshaft is bad so the computer will command it wrong . I'm surprised it didn't fire any error . Your understanding of these systems without having any data at hand is really amazing since you are not an engineer . These TSI early models had chain problems but they are solved I think for the newer ones ... also oil change is crucial .
Nice solve! That ramp on the control signal looks like the kind of thing that a PID controller might produce - the integral term will accumulate error over time with a stuck actuator. I wonder if the control system might have a sanity threshold on the control signal - if nothing happens beyond say 55% duty cycle, give up and try again, hence the repeated ramping at idle.
Reminds me of PIO (pilot induced oscillation) we would see in new pilots. Over correcting back and forth. In the old days we would drill a larger hole in the cam gear and insert an offset bushing to advance timing for drag racing. Things have changed.
Hey new subscriber here ! I just wanted to say I own a 2015 Jetta SE / TSI 1.8 T and after watching a heap load of other videos because I also have the same problem as the Jetta in your video. I spent hundreds of dollars in other parts going by the other video’s and after seeing your video I went outside and as soon as my car started loping I unplugged the camshaft adjuster magnet and the loping stopped and was running good! I’ll be ordering my new part soon so a million thanks brother !! Awesome video
This is happening to my car and talk to me like an idiot what’s the exact part I need fixed so I don’t get raped out the dealership tomorrow
Great find Ivan! Soon as you brought the Camshaft data up I kind of got a shit grin on my face because the Cam angle was~2% and command was 10% and the way the duty cycle was reacting trying to get it to 10% but wasnt moving so it kept going trying to get it to move and as it did start to move it was sticking and why the cam had the pattern humps going on. Had this EXACT issue on a 08 pontiac G6 with the 3.5L. Uses the same style cam magnet with the pin... Free'd the pin up and vehicle improved but wasnt good and the car had terrible service life with oil changes. That car got a whole timing chain/actuator/magnet/guides to fix as everything was so gunked up and nasty. Great find tho man!
Opel/Vauxhall also uses this style of cam phasers. Brilliant video man. But I need a tutorial on hystherisis 😨
Nice diagnosis & repair Ivan!
Just want to thank you for this video! This was exactly what was happening to my 2014 VW Jetta and your diagnosis saved me! Thank you!
Awesome!
Hysteresis! Who'd have thunk it? Never seen this one before! Good job!
Mechanical hysteresis is pretty common. The magnet spring actuator was obviously not designed tolerant of dirty oil. Some things should not be machined to such a tight fit.
Awesome Ivan thank you for sharing this case study with us. Cheers my friend
Lack of maintenance was the first thing I thought about. Noticed the coolant bottle is nearly empty. The owner probably never opens the hood.
Unfortunately, many owners don't nowadays. I don't swing a wrench for a living anymore, but still do most of my own repairs. Been in the habit of checking under the hood on a weekly basis for years..... and changing oil and fluids religiously. Right now I've got 170,000 miles on a Ram 1500 4.7 4x4 with no premature component failures.... Maintenance matters!
nice im dealing with a 2005 BMW 545i thats doing the same thing
That was a good fix Ivan ,your one smart guy ,good on you
Great job. probably those long oil change intervals have made it stuck
Perhaps you and Charles (humble mechanic)can join forces...the humble Ivan channel. nah...doesnt flow..your a sharp tech Ivan...btw i really enjoyed your vid when you went to your home land and got that old Russian car running...love that kind of stuff. is it still running?
I need to fix the huge hole in the gas tank and install a new clutch on the ZAZ...not sure when that will happen :/
Pine Hollow Auto Diagnostics can they be imported into the USA? I'd love to import a T95 Bear into America...Russia has some cool equipment.
u know ivan i said to myself.....i won't say anything about it....then i saw your comment & couldnt help myself.
Get some Krown T40 or Fluid Film while your over there ivan working on the Russian car.
Krown Russia > www.krown.msk.ru/
Krown T40 (russian)- www.krown.msk.ru/products/108/
KrownT40 (english) - www.krown.com/products/aerosol-products/rust-protection-and-lubricant/
Not sure in mother russia where one would get fluid film - www.fluid-film.com/frequently-asked-questions/
If something goes wrong with my car? IM CALL YOU IVAN . U THE MAN!! I was convinced it was the computer.. smh More studies I gotta do. Great video Man Thanks Again 👍
Hey Charles thanks for the comment!
great video mate great great find on that part I have one of them Verdict m2 they are fantastic especially when you can just put it under the engine no wires and take the vehicle for a drive
Yup I almost want to buy one now!
Pine Hollow Auto Diagnostics they're just really handy especially as they strike up instantly you can do some really quick test without trying to strike up the snap on verus or even the Pico are using a lot for relative compression test and just quick testing of sensors it's one of them things once you've got it you will wonder how you live without it
Thank you Ivan. You are a blessing. Great job.
Thank you! I have been fighting this issue for so long. My 2014 VW
Jetta SE 1.8t has the EXACT same symptoms. New part should be here ....
soon (new years is gonna slow it down). THANK YOU!!
I've seen heavy trucks with vvt and all diesels with hydraulically actuated fuel injectors get very finicky when the oil and filter schedules aren't adhered to. This magnetic actuator may have been faulty but it would have been interesting to crack it open to see why. Good series!
the spring will build up junk with oil change not done regularly and will gum up those
possibly the oil return port from the selonoid or phaser could be partially restricted
again you saved the owner a ton of money. well done. AND BY THE WAY WHO ARE THE PEOPLE GIVING THE THUMBS DOWN. PLEASE GO AWAY
Brilliant work!Thanks for sharing👍👍
Although you really can't tell what its proper behavior is until you get a known good one.
That was a fantastic result. It just demonstrates the power of critical thinking. It would be interesting to see where the flowcharts would have taken this one.
I don't even want to guess what the German flow charts say lol
Well done Ivan that is very interesting. Thats what I thought when it was ramping that way was that it was trying to get it to match specified as they call it on the scanner then it would over adjust and cut it off all togeather. Surprising it dont set a code seeing how its able to test itself by making adjustments
Thanks for another great video.
Ivan, Next time use the Pico scope to look at phaser response using Current and voltage while monitoring cmp/ckp relations:) while monitoring scanner cmnds. Good job sticking with it!
Parents rented a Passat last year, it had warped brakes, never had an oil change (it was black and had 12,000 on it) AND the oil was over a QUART low. I know it was just a rental, but I read the manual, bought the oil it recommended, and put it in until it was at the full line. My parents were going to drive it 1,200 miles and I didn't want it to seize up on them.
They always seem well constructed, but DAMN... I don't think I've ever heard of a good long running VW without bizarre issues. I own Saabs, too, so I'm no stranger to shit breaking every 2 seconds.
o my GOD you are a genius thank you for posting gooooood job
A friend of mine has a Lexus he either bought or leased (I'm not sure) and the oil change maintenance light came on. He said he doesn't want to deal with it. I let him now how vitally important it is to keep up with the oil changes, especially with cars that have VVT (which I believe his has). He took my advice and got an oil change.
ANOTHER NICE VIDEO AND INFORMATION.....THKS.✔
I find it interesting that the Command in % did almost not change with the cam position with the new "Solenoid" its just hover at 40%. it seems to be a finely tuned system when it's working ;) But a good study as usual Ivan.
Interested information. Thanks for the videos ..i been driving older vw tdi for years alh ,ahu . I never owned a gasoline vw ..
I think you should have a standard procedure of asking for the regular maintanance status of each car. These european complex systems are really sensitive to the oil and the fuel they are given. You are one of a few people that do this job right, here in europe most diags just say the standard crap and the issue remains.. I appreciate you showing youtube how to do it right! Cheers!
Lots of problems on VW are caused by negligence from the owners, oil change one of the most damaging causes.
That was frickin awesome!!! Nice diagnosis! The hysteresis I recall from my engineering classes looked like the Schmidt trigger drawing on the Wikipedia page for hysteresis en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hysteresis Sometimes it's done by design to eliminate bounce or chatter on a switching circuit. I think you nailed it with this one that h ad hysteresis but in a bad way that wasn't by design. All this for free! ;) Thanks again for sharing.
my car is doing the exact same thing right now! Thank you guys so much, you saved me a ton of money and time!
Cool! Feel free to donate to the PayPal link :)
I'm going to hazard a guess we'll see it sooner than later for similar issues, only it will need multiple other timing components ;)
almost condemned to poor computer due to a mechanical failure. how dare you?
j/ks aside, that was hell of a fix, sir. props to you.
well done sir. I learned from this video. thank you !!!
Thank you for the feedback, Art! Must mean I'm doing something right :)
My 2014 VW Passat is doing this exactly...could this also cause burning/using of oil? I've asked multiple mechanics too and no one has ever been able to figure out the oil consumption either, I was also told it was a timing chain so I'm really hoping this fixes mine too! Although I do change my oil at the correct intervals, I do however have 126k miles on my Passat.
Hello sir,thank you for sharing your knowledge with us!! I want to ask you about the yourself energized the magnetic actuator, can we do it before check the timing? I mean if the chain is stretched or the chain has jumped 1 or 2 teeth and the engine run bad as your video can we energize the magnetic without the risk the valves bent to pistons?? Thanks in advance!!
Is this still "the most bizarre thing I've ever seen? Lol. Good video Ivan.
Interesting design for the variable valve timing on this thing. A bit different from the usual oil control solenoid and hydraulically driven cam phaser. I assume it works OK if the magnet isn't clogged with oil sludge or whatever it was in this case. Thumbs down on VW's OBD implementation though. With that much disagreement between commanded and actual cam position, it should have been consistently setting that P0011 code which would have pointed in the right direction immediately. I guess I have to give VW a bit of slack though, it's hard to implement proper diagnostic software when your ECM programmers are so busy writing code to cheat on diesel emissions, lol.
Nice job Ivan, I believe this engine has 2 different cam shaft profiles and the actuator plays a part in oil pressure pysically shifting from one profile to the other - not sure about 8 inHg on the dip stick though seems a a little high to me
Good Diagnosis Thank's Ivan. :)
Great diagnosis Ivan, I confess I thought is might have been a faulty cam position sensor but what I could not understand was how the car improved as it got to up running temperature (the opposite of usual bad cam sensor). It would be good know what caused the cam advance actuator to stick, was it carbon in the oil, was it a worn actuator pin? Could it be be cured by....(pause for dramatic effect) a spray with brake cleaner?!
Nice video, Ivan. I was thinking a mechanical timing belt/chain/tensioner issue...guess I was sort of right. Probably due to lack of timely oil changes? Pretty sad that the dealer wanted to just throw a timing belt on it.
Thank you it's very helpful
Ivan that was a tricky fix. Do you think the customer's lack of oil and filter maintenance caused that actuator to fail??
I think that was definitely a big factor in this case.
Pine Hollow Auto Diagnostics Thats why 5000 mile oil and filter changes are important. Keep up the good work.😁
On VW/Audi also best to use either genuine VW or Mann who makes the filters. Others will suck down as are too weak therefore making burn oil.
Good one Ivan, makes me wonder why the dealer could not catch that...
I bet they did and assumed chain, tensioner, sprockets were all worn as well. which they probably are :)
probably just the goofy "counter person" said timing belt in confusion..
So it's the camshaft adjuster magnet?
What kind of scope is that? Snap On?
They should do a couple quick engine oil and filter changes on this vehicle. It's might be possible for the detergents in the synthetic oil to remove a lot of the carbon deposits building up inside. It's amazing that owners don't do their homework so they understand how critical it is to service these very sophisticated high performance engines. "Pay me now or pay me later" as the man used to say.
What state are you in Ivan?
I'm bring my car.
I have the exact same car, with the exact same problem. The dealer saying timing belt needs changing, and 2 other shops were scratching their heads. It does burn oil, after the last Oil Change, it needed 3 quarts of Oil at 3K miles later or so. WTF
I am going to sell it, after It is fixed.
The thing that really bothers me Is that I love the car. It must be reliable tough.
nice.
What happened to the vacuum inside the engine? Is the PCV valve defective or in these cars is it normal to find a vacuum in the crankcase?
Great work on this video , it almost seems like an oscilloscope is an extension of your mental diagnostic patterns . Seeing that every other diagnostic path was exhausted all that was left was disassembley . You feel you need to be on a waveform vision status with the system under investigation . Using a Thermal Camera is an easier option..., some times disassembley is a very time consuming option on some of these cars just to replace a battery it becomes a career instead of a job your choice .
VW/Audi maintenance maintenance maintenance! You can't take them to jiffy lube or ignore oil change intervals or bad things happen like this. B7 A4 2.0T with 220k, oil change every 5k with Mann Hummel filter and Castrol Synthetic oil. Still going strong!
I prefer liquimoly but yes. Can't just slap on a Fram on an Audi. I have a B7 too
Hi I primarily work on Volkswagen and I never had to change one yet but on a 2.0 l CCTA on a EOS it's almost the same design it had a fault for timing adjustment out of specs but it was constant and it was running similar but worse I think I even had to check engine base timing and it was okay what I found is the camshaft support bridge has a small metal screen and it was torn and some piece of it got stuck in the mechanical valve on the end of the intake cam what I did is remove the part clean it and reinstall it back problem solved. It would be interesting to see if this car had normal oil change with the proper oil and filter specs ?
Great tip on the metal fragments. I'm pretty sure the owner of this VW did not treat oil changes as a priority maintenance item...
Jim must have a lot of money or a huge Snap On bill. Your sticktoittoveness exceeded that of the magnet gizmo and therefore u prevailed!!
I wonder what would have happened if the magnet assembly would have been bathed in carb cleaner overnight? The 30 000 km oil changes are really bad thing. Those are not based on engineering, those are based on EU regulation requiring less oil waste. One way to achieve less waste oil is extending the oil change interval. It is not a good thing for the engine, it's all politics. If I ever buy a vehicle with 30 000 km oil change interval, I will split it half and change the oil and filter every 15 000. I would recommend that for everybody.
A 2017 Jetta I had as a loaner specified a 15000 km or 1 year oil change interval. I imagine that likely works OK if you use oil that meets VW specs (Pennzoil Platinum Euro or something like that). A lot of people with those cars likely just take them to random quick oil change places which put whatever brand of conventional oil in and then the owner still runs it that long between changes, which is definitely asking for trouble.
With 15 000 km oil change interval you can even use good quality mineral oil as the engine has always fresh enough oil not having its ability to absorb dirt particles exceeded.
When I buy a used car, I fill it with a mineral based diesel motor oil, like Delvac. Diesel oils have the highest amount of cleaning and dirt absorption additives. First oil change after 5000 km and second mineral for 10 000 km.
After that I change to low cost API meet or exceed synthetic and oil keeps itself more or less golden color for the 15 000 - 20 000 km (10 000 -12 500 mile) change interval and the engine keeps itself clean as dirt particle absorption capability of the oil is never exceeded.
Long life oil have extra amount of polymer chains added to keep the viscosity up, which mostly works, but is harder to prevent sludge formation. Solution would be increasing the oil capacity, but you can not do that as it would mean that the amount of waste oil is not decreasing and EU would not be happy.
To keep your engine clean it is better to buy regular inexpensive oil and change the oil every 10 000 miles than pay a high price of Long Life oil and have dirty engine as a result.
Use some of the good stuff on that plunger. Interesting diagnosis.
your all videos are awesome. thanks
Thank you for your support, Naushad!
If you would have used a freezing agent as I suggested in Part 1, You would have been able to make the solenoid/plunger STICK in the applied position and seen that the computer was actually commanding an OFF command.
Ivan thank you so much my Jetta had the exact same problem and this fixed it!!!
Worst I've seen was a Mercedes GL450, over 32,000 miles overdue for an oil change according to the sticker. Took 6 quarts to register on the dipstick, another 2 to bring it to full. Had to change that engine twice too, customer brought his own motor, no compression on 3 cylinders. But it paid well, and the second swap was super easy.
Question? What was the cause of vacuum on the crankcase?
Hey Ivan.
I was wondering if you got a look at the rear o2 after the repair. Was it still pegged out or was it a fix after the cam magnet was replaced?