It's really sad to see the Elves leave forever while the humans are left behind and alone forever and to be forgotten by them. Eventually never knowing their elvish siblings even existing and forgetting who Eru Illuvatar is. Ask me that's pretty sad and tragic to think of.
@@ingmarfris8175 It reflects our own world and history whereby nothing is permanent. We constantly have to deal with changes, including loved ones leaving (dying, moving away, etc.), something that elves have to deal with considerably less. Even as sundered people, the elves are effectively immortal and thus the possibility of uniting again is always present. Even for us, in a single lifetime, we have seen things rise to prominence and become obsolete and forgotten. People who came before us are often eventually forgotten given enough time. I can't say if that is natural or not, but it is simply the way for us mortal beings.
The ending of Arda is a reflection of an English post WW1 veteran who had watched most of the boys he schooled with had been slaughtered on the fields of Flanders. Can any of us imagine the melancholia of being a survivor of such a horrific event? Tolkien loved his world of his youth. He weeped for the world of his entrance into adulthood. And he lived on, passing the years without those who grew up with him. So many gone. So many lost. Life is so precious, and so fleeting. Appreciate every moment. We have so few.
The tragic thing in all of that was that we learned nothing and waged an even bigger World War 2. Imagine Tolkien thoughts about his and friend's sacrifices essentially seen as pointlessl.
Okay real talk. Don't blame the way of the world. Name your true enemy, the misandrist society which continues to hold men and boys as expendable cannon fodder for the elite.
Tolkien hated allegory, so I think the story is what it is, it isn’t a representation of anything. Of course Tolkien may have been channeling his emotions and was inspired by what he lived through so in that sense I agree!
I love the song The Passing of the Elves from that scene. It's such a bittersweet, hauntingly beautiful song. It really captures the magical and sad nature of the Elves leaving Middle Earth.
As we grew older, I wonder if some of us still have a sense of magic and wonder as any child could ever dreamed. I dreamed of exploring Middle Earth when I was very young.
It's never truly over....u can find hope in GOD.... the GOD of middle earth the GOD of the hobbits the GOD of the elves, the GOD of man, the GOD of dwarfs, but most of all the GOD of the universe.
I think not only did they accept their fate, but also the desire for peace and tranquility after so much suffering and countless losses, as well as seeing their younger siblings falling through time.
While it’s sad to see the elves leave Middle-earth, I understand why they did as it was a part of Illuvatar’s will and pretty much their destiny especially after the destruction of Sauron and the threes rings fade without their powers the world becomes older and since the Eldar are tied to Arda they would grow weary. I like the comparison that’s it’s kind of like a relative bequeathing something precious or important to a another family member and it continues down the line. Thanks for another great video Yoystan!
@@mikemurphy8714 two of the 3 elven rings within in their respective realms kind of have the power to slow down and preserve time and also they didn’t feel the corruption of Sauron and Morgoth. Once the rings lost their powers after the destruction of the One ring because of the corruption their bodies would weaken and they faded faster. If Elves refused the summons of the Valar and remained in Middle Earth they became houses spirits after they faded.
@@herobrineapril8451 what does being able to reproduce have to do with the Elves leaving Middle Earth?? The left because it was the summons of the Valar/Will of Illuvatar. Also if they had stayed their Fëa would pretty much eat away at their Hröa and they would eventually become like a wraith.. Did you even read the books??
I always wondered what Gimli's reaction to meeting Aule would have been like after he saw Galadriel of course. I am sure the hope of meeting the creator of his race was in the back of Gimli's mind.
One more minor point - Galadriel's Ban I believe that Galadriel's ban on returning home was largely self imposed. She was pardoned along with all other Noldor at the end of the first age, yet she still wanted to explore and live in Middle Earth and to rule a Kingdom of her own. There was never any pronouncement against her and any exile was of her own belief. This is why Saruman mocks her lamentations in such thoughts of hers as the poem _Namarië._ It's because he recognises that there's nothing preventing her from returning home, but her own stubbornness in the belief that she cannot return. Overcoming the desire of The Ring to grant her the power to rule vast kingdoms and to order them as she wills was a test of her own making, allowing her to come to terms with dichotomy of selfishness vs selflessness; She wanted to stay in Middle Earth after the war of wrath for her own ends (selfishness), so she couldn't return to Valinor until she proved to herself that she was no longer selfish in that same way. Being able to renounce the power of The Ring proved to her inner self that she could be selfless and that she had changed since the end of the first age, in that she didn't make the same choice now (end of 3rd age), as she did then (end of first age).
"The time of the elves is over. Do we leave middle earth to its fate? Do we let them stand alone?" I guess now we know why it made Sam sad 😥 But even tho they departed they left behind a legacy and heritage that in many ways continues on. It also softens the blow a bit to know that it was always meant to be, and that it will all work out in the end 🥺
It's also why it was so noble of Galadriel to welcome them with open arms and help them along the way. She knew that if they succeeded in destroying the One Ring that she is also dooming herself and her people by doing so.
@@janicem9225 Very true, valid point. But if u can draw meaning and understanding and emotion from a story or a character or a world, even if it's not real, then it's worth feeling something for it. And if u can do that then you're able to appreciate the real things in your own life ✌🏼
@@Enerdhil oh i understood that after picking up the books . Just rewatching the films i felt that the prologue was pretty vague in explaining the power of the other rings . Especially since its somewhat tied to the passing of the elves .
As it's said in Akallabeth in the story Numenor "Its not the land that gives immortality but the people that dwell there that makes the land deathless" that really shed a whole new light on Valinor for me.
And the ship went out into the High Sea and passed into the West, until at last on a night of rain Frodo smelled a sweet fragrance on the air and heard the sound of singing that came over the water. And then it seemed to him that as in his dream in the house of Bombadil, the grey rain-curtain turned all to silver glass and was rolled back, and he beheld white shores and beyond them a far green country under a swift sunrise.
Just a minor point of bookkeeping: Cirdan was Teleri, as were the Falathrim with him. Also, there would presumably have been a large contingent of avari still dwelling as moriquendi. So, rather than just the Sindar and Noldor being left in Middle Earth in the 4th age, I think there were a LOT of elves who went unaccounted for, particularly those of the avari, of whom the Valar particularly seemed to take no accounting of.
The topic of the Elves "fading" touches on what I feel is the biggest reason why they had to leave, one that I'm surprised you didn't go into: the fact that in time, the Undying lands would be the only place where they could exist, at least in tangible form. Tolkien describes the Elves as "mighty in both worlds," and in his supplementary writings, goes on to explain further that while humans are corporeal beings, Elves have both a magic and a mundane aspect to their being. There is both a visible and an unseen world as Tolkien imagines it, and the Elves straddle the boundary. And he said that in time, the Elves' magical element would outlast and even burn out their earthly forms, leaving them only as ephemeral beings divorced from the world of matter. Valinor, meanwhile, is said to have passed into that unseen world entirely after the last ships arrived, leaving any who did not come stranded, but allowing those who did to go on as they always had, in the one dimension of reality where they could still be. They come to Valinor, or they disappear; it's that simple.
Thing is, it was the Noldor who left not all the elves. Many elves fell away from the initial journey to Valinor and they remain a giant plot-hole that was resolved by Tolkien who was clear that all elves did NOT leave. Further, Tolkien also said that the sons of Elrond still had the choice and could defer that choice without leaving Middle Earth. There was a terrible downside. That is if the elves remained long-enough Middle Earth could NOT SUSTAIN their spirts and the elves that remained would eventually fade and become Haunts.
The end of the video makes me think that when Eru Iluvatar will reshape the world, it will be the Elves’ time again, and that it’s a actually a cycle between Immortals and Mortals alternating.
I always found it really sad in different fantasy adaptions of elves dying out or leaving. DragonAge Inquisition touched on this too and that the world is simply plain and dull without the magics of the elves. I know Tolkien says that the Entwives are dead but I like to believe in some hidden pocket of Middle-Earth, Treebeard found the entwives and brought a bit of magic back to Middle-Earth
Although the different children of Eru/Iluvatar have much in common, there is also much that is not the same. Aside from the obvious differences of life span, they are fundamentally different in, for lack of a better term, psychologies. If you could somehow plot a bell curve of the diverse range of psychologies for the individuals of each species (yeah, I know, vast oversimplification; even professionals can't agree on the metrics, which also are not constants), these curves would likely be significantly different. And this is all just a pleasant mental exercise over what is a work of fiction. Truly great fiction indeed, of nonpareil elaborateness, but still . . . As a U. S. Government certified Old Dude, I have come to a greater appreciation of the virtue of the 'Gift of Man'. Immortality in a finite world will eventually become wearying. There is much that remains in this world that I would like to experience for the first time or once again, but I am blessed to have seen/heard/felt/smelled/tasted much (which remains in increasingly glitchy, but still adequately usable memory and other cognitive functions) over the decades. I cannot honestly say that I have been short changed. And there is also that which is new, especially a certain delightful little person who has been around for only a bit over two years now. I am not yet quite ready to check out and have no plans to do anything stupid, but when the time comes I will accept the 'Gift'.
I would love seeing a video on the afterlife in Tolkien's world, especially for Elves as bound to Arda, and mortal Men, Dwarves, and Hobbits (and Dwarves as merely adopted children of Era probably have a different fate altogether).
Hi! I have never before commented to your videos, but now I will (although this comment don't have nothing do to with this video). So, I have watched occasionally your videos and I like your channel; it gives new thoughts and ideas about Tolkien's legendarium. And I like your channel, because it tells of Tolkien legendarium, of course. I really appreciate Tolkien and his imagination, and I am interested in writing fantasy stories, that are located in their very own worlds. I have taken inspiration from The Silmarillion, and that's why I like The Silmarillion and this channel (or then I'm interested in writing because of The Silmarillion, I'm not sure). Greetings from Finland/Estonia!
OMG! I enjoyed the many topics you've researched and produced. This one is by far among the best of many! Thanks to you and a few others creators dedicated to explore J.R.R. Tolkien's legendary works, all the questions I've ever had are answered. Kudos for your hard work, Yoyston. Kudos for the J.J.R . Tolkien Award most of all congratulations for your new home!
On a lighter note, I'm having some hilarity envisioning all these elves that have lived either most or all of their lives in the woods dreaming of the majesty of the sea then getting on the boats and dealing with ACTUALLY sailing
I love The Passing of the Elves from The Fellowship of the Ring movie. It's such a bittersweet and hauntingly beautiful song. It evokes the magical and sad nature of the Elves leaving Middle Earth.
Amazing video, Yoystan! This gives so much weight to Arwen's choice to abandon Valinor, a paradise literally crafted by the gods for her. It amazes me how she chose to follow her love over, what is essentially, a guaranteed spot in heaven.
Great video! I love the themes of mortality, immortality and sort of determinism. It’s interesting but not easy to think of a fated or planned end to life. It’s sad to think of elves living and watching others around them die. I appreciate the level of detail in these videos!
I wanted to add the idea that the Marring of Arda by Melkor took a toll on Elves' bodies who remained in Middle-Earth like a sort of micro-poisoning that accumulates over the centuries and eventually results in fatigue or even fading. The Elven rings of power and living in the blessed realm of Valinor would stop this decay 🤔 I recall that this idea was presented somewhere in Morgoth's Ring.
Man Mellon, that's so sad...It was there density from the beginning of time to leave *wipes tears away...* Anyway what a beautiful video about the Fate's of the Elves...Until a Poll of our choosing, Marion Baggins Out!!!
Great video. I often wondered why they did leave after only seeing the movies. I've learned a lot about the lore of Tolkiens works from your channel. Also I'm not sure what your situation is right now but I think you could do with a better mic or at least don't record inside of a pot 😂
Not only his love for the Elves, but Galadriel herself probably went to Manwe to ask for that grace. Add to that that Gimli was 262 and near the end of his life, and you can see the Valar giving the grace to Gimli to see Galadriel one last time before he died.
it suuuure plays on the duality of mortality and immortality and the double edge sword that both of them are. Quite the beautiful, sad and exciting thing.
Bro, I just subscribed this is cool. The land and stories of beleriand and the land of the elves makes the war of the ring look like childs story haha which it is, at least the hobbit. A story where the good guys lose? Game of thrones but with a complete story, dragons and everything!
We, the Second-born of Illuvatar desire immortality to be among ourselves. Whereas our elder siblings wish mortality to be with us, their younger siblings.
This made me wonder what Eru Ilúvatar's point was in making elves. Then I looked up it was basically to help kick Morgoth's a$$, lol. Then that somehow led me to learn that Eru made Smeagol find the ring so that Sauron wouldn't. Then I thought damn Eru, not only did you make Gollum's life miserable, but you had to make him strangle a Deagol/fam member as well? That's cold af 🤣 hopefully he made it up to them in the afterlife 😅
It’s sad, but my thoughts are I wished there was no Valinor which can make for a new stories later on in that they live in closer proximity to one another, and would have made for a much happier ending to the story
I wonder what the fate of the Dwarves would be in the Fourth Age. Would their numbers slowly dwindle and they go extinct? There were only a few "Kingdoms" of Dwarves in Middle-Earth by the end of the Third Age.
Youstan's trying to make a word-count, here's an analogy, when Eru and the Ainur "Forged" the world into being, the Iron was Glowing-hot, so they could mold it as they wished, but after they finished forging it, the iron cooled, but not instantaneously. In this analogy, heat is magic, thus the elves were able to use a lot of magic in their bodies, but by the same token, they depended on magic, humans, on the other hand, couldn't "metabolize" magic like the elves or even the Dwarves can, but by the same token, the without magic the elves and dwarves starve, but humans, who weren't even metabolizing magic in the first place are fine without it, so when the iron began to cool in the later ages, elves, dwarves, dragons, and Giant Spiders began to starve, while the humans were just fine and were in fact better off than when they iron was hot as they didn't have to compete with magical beings as much, the End of the Third age was when Iron finally got so cold that the elves couldn't live on it anymore and had to go seek warmth elsewhere.
I wish someone could or would do a video o. All the other lands of Middle Earth. It is such a huge world and we only get to see the information about just 1 corner of all the land.
Right at the end something caught my attention: "the world remade." I'm a bad Catholic but understand there shall be a New Heaven and a New Earth, but I did not think Tolkien carried that into his mythos. I thought that in their "reboot," the Eldar are gone and it's just humans from then on. It's been years since I read the Silmarillion and I've not the more recent books, so can anyone please make me older about this? The misunderstanding seems to be mine.
All this talk about longing and the sea: (I think Yoystan knows where this is going.) I'M ALL SET TO VEER AWAY AND I'M ALL SET TO GO ASTRAY ALL BURDENS I WILL LEAVE ASHORE TO FIND WHAT I'VE BEEN LONGING FOR.
Guess it was all in the music.. When Melkor sang his first discord, it must have been about the fading on Arda and death after life. He wanted of course to be, being the most powerful, the strongest remaining spirit and owner of the vision. Now Iluvatar would have his Firstborn to stay on Arda as long as it existed, so there was to be a place where immortals could stay safely and unmarred, and that would be kept up by the power of the Valar. But for the Secondborn he devised to stay in Arda Marred. They would have, though, strange qualities to live with it, mainly because their fate would not be bound to Arda. Iluvatar himself would provide Feär to dwell in the newborn bodies of these much more fertile children, to be recollected after death. Thus Melkor, although his singing became part of the creation, achieved not his desire to ursurp its lordship. Instead the creation became more beautiful and interesting. Hence.... The division into separate worlds for mortals and immortals, effectuated in the downfall of Númenor was probably inevitable. Hence.. Even Sauron in his malice was an instrument of the fulfilling of the Music. Just as Ilúvatar had foretold.
I'm reminded of Mark Twain's book, Letters from the Earth. The plot is an angle visits Earth and gets to know the wants and desires of us stupid mortals. One believe the angle mentions in a letter back to his kin in Heaven goes like this... If you have lived a good, pious life, you will go to Heaven when you die. You will dress in white robes, have angles wings, sit on a cloud, play a harp, and sing Hosanna, Hosanna for eternity, and love it. The angle, disguised as human, asks people if they play the harp and sing Hosanna now. "Of course not!" says the humans. Well, why not? "Because that would be boring." And won't it be boring in Heaven? "Of course not!" Why? "Because in Heaven we will be made to love it!" So when it comes to Elves in the Undying Lands, you have to wonder why they didn't all go. Yes, I know all about the sundering, the Avari, etc. But after countless thousands of years, before the coming of the Sun and Moon, the Avari, the Sindar, the Nandor, they all could have taken a few centuries off, asked Cirdan for a ride, etc. You know, an Elf Vacation. They didn't. And what about the Silvan Elves who accepted Galadriel as their Lady? She must have told stories to them about Valinor, even if she wasn't allowed to go. None of them bothered to pull up stakes and make the journey? Certainly by then she would have told them they had nothing to fear from Orme or the other Valar. But none of them went. You can say they loved Middle-earth all you want. But the fact remains, not one, at least that we know of. I suspect it got boring, like all societies that is settled for too long. It gets classist and snobbish, everyone in everyone else's business. Social score keeping. And eventually, no matter how many amusements and fine restaurants there are, you just get sick of it.
Yes, but what specifically happened to Gandolf, Frodo and bilbo when they were in the Gray Havens? How long did they live before they passed away? Did Gandolf wait until they both passed away from old age before finally relinquishing his physical body? I’d also be curious to find out what Gandolf looked like originally before taking human form. 🤔
"If there is such a thing. I can *taste* your *stink* and every time I do, I fear I've somehow been *infected* by it. It's repulsive, isn't it?" *sails with all haste to the West, furiously scrubbing himself with a soft elven towel*
I think all of the remaining Elves would have felt that longing, regardless of whether they had ever beheld the light of Valinor. However, I suspect that the few who remained behind and faded would be mostly Moriquendi.
@@Enerdhil I wondered what happened to those who chose to supposedly remain to the modern day, fading away to mere ghosts that were invisible and intangible to the rest of the world. Were they stuck like that, as punishment for their indecision (a truly horrific fate) or would they also be allowed to cross to the Undying Lands somehow one day, to be potentially re-embodied again in Valinor?
I know Gandalf left to the west, but what ever happened to Radagast the brown, did he too leave for the west or did he manage to stay in middle earth? Great video as always, something to look forward to on Sundays. :)
They're basically just going home after the end of a long journey who's outcomes and trials they could've never known when setting out, thinking it was a mere quest for vengeance and the silmarils to begin with. Their time to go home had come I suppose.
the Noldor are BAMF's... Frodo is ayte he held posession of the Ring for around 17 years give or take 6months, while Bilbo held it for 60 years and used it much more than Frodo, gives you some depth of the fortitude of Bilbo.
I always wondered how many Noldor where left in Middle Earth at the end of the 3rd age and how many of these where from the original journey is the first age. Anyone have an estimate?
A bare handful east of the Blue Mountains. There may have been more in the Grey Havens, as a remnant of the last kingdom of the Noldor in Lindon, but we're never really shown what lies in those lands. As for original Noldor, probably none, as Galadriel and Glorfindel both came from later generations. Cirdan may well have been a firstborn elf, but he was a Sindar, as he never saw the light of the two Trees.
I don't think it's ever said exactly. There's Galadriel, Glorfindel, and Gildor Inglorion (who Frodo meets towards the beginning of the journey out of the Shire). I have to imagine there are more unnamed Noldor among the Galadhrim, Gildor's group, and in the house of Elrond. I'm pretty sure after the fall of Beleriand the remaining Noldor kinda scattered and mixed into the societies of the Sindarin elves, so it's hard to say.
New followers to the channel and LOVING all the lore any chance theres a video on the Origins of the Fell Beasts? And why did the Nazgul ride horses at the start of there hint and not just the Fell Beasts
He does an unfathomable quest. Could live like a King in other places but returns to the Shire because of his love for his culture, friends and people. Then leaves it behind to go off into the unknown? I could understand if it was to heal his body and mind rom the tolls of the adventure. Will there be a village of Hobbits, there? Stew, pot-roast, Yorkshire pudding, meat pies?
I always felt Elves were the extremes of men. If an elf was a good person they were the epitome of goodness. Take the greatest elven hero's of the first age, they were greater than the greatest of the race of man. But then take the great Kin slaying, the temptation Galadriel felt, the Grudge Thranduil held. These were far worse than most ever done by men. So i always precieved they were the lesson to men. To show balance by demonstrating the extremes. That even the best can have evil, and that bad can do good. By doing so they would show men how to embrace all the sides of their characters, to accept they can be great or evil all through the choices and actions they take. Once Men reach that stage, where now they have the lessons they leave bringing the true vision of Erus world into fruition.
It's really sad to see the Elves leave forever while the humans are left behind and alone forever and to be forgotten by them. Eventually never knowing their elvish siblings even existing and forgetting who Eru Illuvatar is. Ask me that's pretty sad and tragic to think of.
I agree. Especially considering how much the elves helped humans and their friendship in the past. Hopefully they’ll meet again.
In my opinion it’s natural, look only at our own history.
@@markjednoroz9585 What about our own history? I'm not sure I understand your comment.
@@ingmarfris8175 It reflects our own world and history whereby nothing is permanent. We constantly have to deal with changes, including loved ones leaving (dying, moving away, etc.), something that elves have to deal with considerably less. Even as sundered people, the elves are effectively immortal and thus the possibility of uniting again is always present.
Even for us, in a single lifetime, we have seen things rise to prominence and become obsolete and forgotten. People who came before us are often eventually forgotten given enough time. I can't say if that is natural or not, but it is simply the way for us mortal beings.
@@marchendrawidjaja Interesting answer. I wonder what the other Mark had in mind. Probably a similar thing. Have a good one!
The ending of Arda is a reflection of an English post WW1 veteran who had watched most of the boys he schooled with had been slaughtered on the fields of Flanders. Can any of us imagine the melancholia of being a survivor of such a horrific event? Tolkien loved his world of his youth. He weeped for the world of his entrance into adulthood. And he lived on, passing the years without those who grew up with him. So many gone. So many lost. Life is so precious, and so fleeting. Appreciate every moment. We have so few.
The tragic thing in all of that was that we learned nothing and waged an even bigger World War 2. Imagine Tolkien thoughts about his and friend's sacrifices essentially seen as pointlessl.
Okay real talk. Don't blame the way of the world. Name your true enemy, the misandrist society which continues to hold men and boys as expendable cannon fodder for the elite.
@@doltBmB thank you and amen to that!
Tolkien hated allegory, so I think the story is what it is, it isn’t a representation of anything. Of course Tolkien may have been channeling his emotions and was inspired by what he lived through so in that sense I agree!
@@FA-ft9sq He said he never believed in the propaganda slogans The War To End All Wars or The War For Civilisation
“I don’t know why, but it makes me sad” Samwise Gamgee
I love the song The Passing of the Elves from that scene. It's such a bittersweet, hauntingly beautiful song. It really captures the magical and sad nature of the Elves leaving Middle Earth.
Cry me a river!
Sauron: goes 💥
The Elves: aight we’re gonna head out
To represent the decline of magic and wonder in the world and to emphasise that it’s alllll downhill from here.
That's...surprisingly accurate.
Nice name
As we grew older, I wonder if some of us still have a sense of magic and wonder as any child could ever dreamed. I dreamed of exploring Middle Earth when I was very young.
It's never truly over....u can find hope in GOD.... the GOD of middle earth the GOD of the hobbits the GOD of the elves, the GOD of man, the GOD of dwarfs, but most of all the GOD of the universe.
@@garrettdoyle888if LoTR was written 2000 years ago people like you would be worshipping it like you do the Bible
I think not only did they accept their fate, but also the desire for peace and tranquility after so much suffering and countless losses, as well as seeing their younger siblings falling through time.
While it’s sad to see the elves leave Middle-earth, I understand why they did as it was a part of Illuvatar’s will and pretty much their destiny especially after the destruction of Sauron and the threes rings fade without their powers the world becomes older and since the Eldar are tied to Arda they would grow weary. I like the comparison that’s it’s kind of like a relative bequeathing something precious or important to a another family member and it continues down the line. Thanks for another great video Yoystan!
Well weren't the elves in middle earth a lot earlier than the age of the 3 rings? How do the rings effect t their presence in middle earth?
The Summons of The Valar after The Destruction Of Utumno had a lot to do with it.
@@mikemurphy8714 two of the 3 elven rings within in their respective realms kind of have the power to slow down and preserve time and also they didn’t feel the corruption of Sauron and Morgoth. Once the rings lost their powers after the destruction of the One ring because of the corruption their bodies would weaken and they faded faster. If Elves refused the summons of the Valar and remained in Middle Earth they became houses spirits after they faded.
@@ChiaraSiasat bro they can just reproduce there's no reason i can see for why they left
@@herobrineapril8451 what does being able to reproduce have to do with the Elves leaving Middle Earth?? The left because it was the summons of the Valar/Will of Illuvatar. Also if they had stayed their Fëa would pretty much eat away at their Hröa and they would eventually become like a wraith.. Did you even read the books??
I always wondered what Gimli's reaction to meeting Aule would have been like after he saw Galadriel of course. I am sure the hope of meeting the creator of his race was in the back of Gimli's mind.
One more minor point - Galadriel's Ban
I believe that Galadriel's ban on returning home was largely self imposed. She was pardoned along with all other Noldor at the end of the first age, yet she still wanted to explore and live in Middle Earth and to rule a Kingdom of her own. There was never any pronouncement against her and any exile was of her own belief. This is why Saruman mocks her lamentations in such thoughts of hers as the poem _Namarië._ It's because he recognises that there's nothing preventing her from returning home, but her own stubbornness in the belief that she cannot return. Overcoming the desire of The Ring to grant her the power to rule vast kingdoms and to order them as she wills was a test of her own making, allowing her to come to terms with dichotomy of selfishness vs selflessness;
She wanted to stay in Middle Earth after the war of wrath for her own ends (selfishness), so she couldn't return to Valinor until she proved to herself that she was no longer selfish in that same way. Being able to renounce the power of The Ring proved to her inner self that she could be selfless and that she had changed since the end of the first age, in that she didn't make the same choice now (end of 3rd age), as she did then (end of first age).
"The time of the elves is over. Do we leave middle earth to its fate? Do we let them stand alone?"
I guess now we know why it made Sam sad 😥
But even tho they departed they left behind a legacy and heritage that in many ways continues on.
It also softens the blow a bit to know that it was always meant to be, and that it will all work out in the end 🥺
It's also why it was so noble of Galadriel to welcome them with open arms and help them along the way. She knew that if they succeeded in destroying the One Ring that she is also dooming herself and her people by doing so.
It's not real. Lol
It's a story written by Tolkien.
Yes, it's a beautiful story, admittedly... But it's just that... A story. 🙄
@@janicem9225 Very true, valid point. But if u can draw meaning and understanding and emotion from a story or a character or a world, even if it's not real, then it's worth feeling something for it.
And if u can do that then you're able to appreciate the real things in your own life ✌🏼
The Elves really only hang on during the Third Age due to the Elven Rings.
Wished this was explained abit more in the films. I was so confused as who crafted the other rings
@@Enerdhil oh i understood that after picking up the books . Just rewatching the films i felt that the prologue was pretty vague in explaining the power of the other rings . Especially since its somewhat tied to the passing of the elves .
The Valar: come back Galadriel, we forgive you
Galadriel: I'M NOT DONE YET!!
As it's said in Akallabeth in the story Numenor "Its not the land that gives immortality but the people that dwell there that makes the land deathless" that really shed a whole new light on Valinor for me.
And the ship went out into the High Sea and passed into the West, until at last on a night of rain Frodo smelled a sweet fragrance on the air and heard the sound of singing that came over the water. And then it seemed to him that as in his dream in the house of Bombadil, the grey rain-curtain turned all to silver glass and was rolled back, and he beheld white shores and beyond them a far green country under a swift sunrise.
Tolkien's prose is masterly.
Love your poll for next week its very close at the minute
Just a minor point of bookkeeping:
Cirdan was Teleri, as were the Falathrim with him. Also, there would presumably have been a large contingent of avari still dwelling as moriquendi. So, rather than just the Sindar and Noldor being left in Middle Earth in the 4th age, I think there were a LOT of elves who went unaccounted for, particularly those of the avari, of whom the Valar particularly seemed to take no accounting of.
Sam shouted Potatoes at them too aggressively
I’m now just imagining hobbits in a battle remembering Sam and shouting “POTATOES” as a battle cry.
A battle cry to match the "RIP AND TEAR" of the Night Sentinels.
"Boil them! Mash them! Stick them in a stew!"
“Whaaat’sss tat-ters?”
The topic of the Elves "fading" touches on what I feel is the biggest reason why they had to leave, one that I'm surprised you didn't go into: the fact that in time, the Undying lands would be the only place where they could exist, at least in tangible form.
Tolkien describes the Elves as "mighty in both worlds," and in his supplementary writings, goes on to explain further that while humans are corporeal beings, Elves have both a magic and a mundane aspect to their being. There is both a visible and an unseen world as Tolkien imagines it, and the Elves straddle the boundary. And he said that in time, the Elves' magical element would outlast and even burn out their earthly forms, leaving them only as ephemeral beings divorced from the world of matter. Valinor, meanwhile, is said to have passed into that unseen world entirely after the last ships arrived, leaving any who did not come stranded, but allowing those who did to go on as they always had, in the one dimension of reality where they could still be.
They come to Valinor, or they disappear; it's that simple.
I don’t think it’s that simple at all…or it would be described that simply in the numerous videos on this topic.
Thing is, it was the Noldor who left not all the elves. Many elves fell away from the initial journey to Valinor and they remain a giant plot-hole that was resolved by Tolkien who was clear that all elves did NOT leave. Further, Tolkien also said that the sons of Elrond still had the choice and could defer that choice without leaving Middle Earth.
There was a terrible downside. That is if the elves remained long-enough Middle Earth could NOT SUSTAIN their spirts and the elves that remained would eventually fade and become Haunts.
Finally I caught up, have been trying to get through all your videos over a couple of weeks now.
Its sad that elves who stay become formless whispers and memories, and the dwarves delve so deep that they never return to the world.
The end of the video makes me think that when Eru Iluvatar will reshape the world, it will be the Elves’ time again, and that it’s a actually a cycle between Immortals and Mortals alternating.
I always found it really sad in different fantasy adaptions of elves dying out or leaving. DragonAge Inquisition touched on this too and that the world is simply plain and dull without the magics of the elves. I know Tolkien says that the Entwives are dead but I like to believe in some hidden pocket of Middle-Earth, Treebeard found the entwives and brought a bit of magic back to Middle-Earth
Cry me a river!
Although the different children of Eru/Iluvatar have much in common, there is also much that is not the same. Aside from the obvious differences of life span, they are fundamentally different in, for lack of a better term, psychologies. If you could somehow plot a bell curve of the diverse range of psychologies for the individuals of each species (yeah, I know, vast oversimplification; even professionals can't agree on the metrics, which also are not constants), these curves would likely be significantly different.
And this is all just a pleasant mental exercise over what is a work of fiction. Truly great fiction indeed, of nonpareil elaborateness, but still . . .
As a U. S. Government certified Old Dude, I have come to a greater appreciation of the virtue of the 'Gift of Man'. Immortality in a finite world will eventually become wearying. There is much that remains in this world that I would like to experience for the first time or once again, but I am blessed to have seen/heard/felt/smelled/tasted much (which remains in increasingly glitchy, but still adequately usable memory and other cognitive functions) over the decades. I cannot honestly say that I have been short changed. And there is also that which is new, especially a certain delightful little person who has been around for only a bit over two years now. I am not yet quite ready to check out and have no plans to do anything stupid, but when the time comes I will accept the 'Gift'.
p.s. Another good job, Yoystan! :-)
I would love seeing a video on the afterlife in Tolkien's world, especially for Elves as bound to Arda, and mortal Men, Dwarves, and Hobbits (and Dwarves as merely adopted children of Era probably have a different fate altogether).
Hi! I have never before commented to your videos, but now I will (although this comment don't have nothing do to with this video). So, I have watched occasionally your videos and I like your channel; it gives new thoughts and ideas about Tolkien's legendarium. And I like your channel, because it tells of Tolkien legendarium, of course. I really appreciate Tolkien and his imagination, and I am interested in writing fantasy stories, that are located in their very own worlds. I have taken inspiration from The Silmarillion, and that's why I like The Silmarillion and this channel (or then I'm interested in writing because of The Silmarillion, I'm not sure).
Greetings from Finland/Estonia!
Greetings Tulmari, thank you so much for the support, my friend! I'm glad you commented and I hope you have a wonderful day!
Hello from the U.S.!
Last time I came this early is when Pippin tells Gimli that they were having some salted pork. 😋
I wonder what became of the Elves cities? Surely such beautiful real estate didn't just go abandoned.
Such a sad topic. But one I love coming back too. You analyse Tolkien so we’ll. many thanks
OMG! I enjoyed the many topics you've researched and produced. This one is by far among the best of many! Thanks to you and a few others creators dedicated to explore J.R.R. Tolkien's legendary works, all the questions I've ever had are answered. Kudos for your hard work, Yoyston. Kudos for the J.J.R . Tolkien Award most of all congratulations for your new home!
Great video Men of the West!
cool vid Yoystan enjoyed it
On a lighter note, I'm having some hilarity envisioning all these elves that have lived either most or all of their lives in the woods dreaming of the majesty of the sea then getting on the boats and dealing with ACTUALLY sailing
That would be some comic relief, yes. Legolas and Gimli both uncomfortable.
That would be some comic relief, yes. Legolas and Gimli both uncomfortable.
I love The Passing of the Elves from The Fellowship of the Ring movie. It's such a bittersweet and hauntingly beautiful song. It evokes the magical and sad nature of the Elves leaving Middle Earth.
Amazing video, Yoystan! This gives so much weight to Arwen's choice to abandon Valinor, a paradise literally crafted by the gods for her. It amazes me how she chose to follow her love over, what is essentially, a guaranteed spot in heaven.
But when he died she went over seas!
@@tomdumb6937no, she didn't. She went back to Lorien and died there a year after Aragorn
Great video! I love the themes of mortality, immortality and sort of determinism. It’s interesting but not easy to think of a fated or planned end to life. It’s sad to think of elves living and watching others around them die. I appreciate the level of detail in these videos!
Thanks for sharing! I love these lore explanation videos.
Think I'd like to follow the Elves to the West myself.
I wanted to add the idea that the Marring of Arda by Melkor took a toll on Elves' bodies who remained in Middle-Earth like a sort of micro-poisoning that accumulates over the centuries and eventually results in fatigue or even fading. The Elven rings of power and living in the blessed realm of Valinor would stop this decay 🤔 I recall that this idea was presented somewhere in Morgoth's Ring.
It's sad that the Elves had to leave, but I'm sure they miss us just as dearly.
Another wonderful video. Thank you as always for all your hard work. Perfect way to end the day❤️
I do still wonder, though, what would have happened to the Elves if the Valar had left them in Middle Earth from the very beginning.
So beautifully done. Moving, actually
It wasn’t perfect, but I rejoice for the blessing that the presence of the Elves was to Middle Earth, while it lasted.
Man Mellon, that's so sad...It was there density from the beginning of time to leave *wipes tears away...*
Anyway what a beautiful video about the Fate's of the Elves...Until a Poll of our choosing, Marion Baggins Out!!!
Good to see you going on with the videos bro, keep it up
Tolkien's tales are chock full of beautiful poignancy.
Great video. I often wondered why they did leave after only seeing the movies. I've learned a lot about the lore of Tolkiens works from your channel.
Also I'm not sure what your situation is right now but I think you could do with a better mic or at least don't record inside of a pot 😂
Not only his love for the Elves, but Galadriel herself probably went to Manwe to ask for that grace. Add to that that Gimli was 262 and near the end of his life, and you can see the Valar giving the grace to Gimli to see Galadriel one last time before he died.
it suuuure plays on the duality of mortality and immortality and the double edge sword that both of them are. Quite the beautiful, sad and exciting thing.
Bro, I just subscribed this is cool. The land and stories of beleriand and the land of the elves makes the war of the ring look like childs story haha which it is, at least the hobbit. A story where the good guys lose? Game of thrones but with a complete story, dragons and everything!
We, the Second-born of Illuvatar desire immortality to be among ourselves. Whereas our elder siblings wish mortality to be with us, their younger siblings.
This made me wonder what Eru Ilúvatar's point was in making elves. Then I looked up it was basically to help kick Morgoth's a$$, lol.
Then that somehow led me to learn that Eru made Smeagol find the ring so that Sauron wouldn't. Then I thought damn Eru, not only did you make Gollum's life miserable, but you had to make him strangle a Deagol/fam member as well? That's cold af 🤣 hopefully he made it up to them in the afterlife 😅
It’s sad, but my thoughts are I wished there was no Valinor which can make for a new stories later on in that they live in closer proximity to one another, and would have made for a much happier ending to the story
I wonder what the fate of the Dwarves would be in the Fourth Age. Would their numbers slowly dwindle and they go extinct? There were only a few "Kingdoms" of Dwarves in Middle-Earth by the end of the Third Age.
Youstan's trying to make a word-count, here's an analogy, when Eru and the Ainur "Forged" the world into being, the Iron was Glowing-hot, so they could mold it as they wished, but after they finished forging it, the iron cooled, but not instantaneously. In this analogy, heat is magic, thus the elves were able to use a lot of magic in their bodies, but by the same token, they depended on magic, humans, on the other hand, couldn't "metabolize" magic like the elves or even the Dwarves can, but by the same token, the without magic the elves and dwarves starve, but humans, who weren't even metabolizing magic in the first place are fine without it, so when the iron began to cool in the later ages, elves, dwarves, dragons, and Giant Spiders began to starve, while the humans were just fine and were in fact better off than when they iron was hot as they didn't have to compete with magical beings as much, the End of the Third age was when Iron finally got so cold that the elves couldn't live on it anymore and had to go seek warmth elsewhere.
Hot take. I think the elves having to leave is a slap in the face of every elf who died protecting men, and every man who died protecting an elf
You know it's so sad that while the elves are bound to arda, we men depart beyond this world into the unknown.
I wish someone could or would do a video o. All the other lands of Middle Earth. It is such a huge world and we only get to see the information about just 1 corner of all the land.
Beautiful, as always.
I enjoy your videos immensely, and look forward to new ones.
Right at the end something caught my attention: "the world remade." I'm a bad Catholic but understand there shall be a New Heaven and a New Earth, but I did not think Tolkien carried that into his mythos. I thought that in their "reboot," the Eldar are gone and it's just humans from then on. It's been years since I read the Silmarillion and I've not the more recent books, so can anyone please make me older about this? The misunderstanding seems to be mine.
A video explaining the links between Tolkien's Catholic faith and the legendarium would be really interesting.
Why did they leave? Middle Earth ran out of Lembas bread and elven wine 🍷 lol 😆
All this talk about longing and the sea: (I think Yoystan knows where this is going.)
I'M ALL SET TO VEER AWAY
AND I'M ALL SET TO GO ASTRAY
ALL BURDENS I WILL LEAVE ASHORE
TO FIND WHAT I'VE BEEN LONGING FOR.
Guess it was all in the music.. When Melkor sang his first discord, it must have been about the fading on Arda and death after life. He wanted of course to be, being the most powerful, the strongest remaining spirit and owner of the vision. Now Iluvatar would have his Firstborn to stay on Arda as long as it existed, so there was to be a place where immortals could stay safely and unmarred, and that would be kept up by the power of the Valar. But for the Secondborn he devised to stay in Arda Marred. They would have, though, strange qualities to live with it, mainly because their fate would not be bound to Arda. Iluvatar himself would provide Feär to dwell in the newborn bodies of these much more fertile children, to be recollected after death. Thus Melkor, although his singing became part of the creation, achieved not his desire to ursurp its lordship. Instead the creation became more beautiful and interesting.
Hence.... The division into separate worlds for mortals and immortals, effectuated in the downfall of Númenor was probably inevitable. Hence.. Even Sauron in his malice was an instrument of the fulfilling of the Music. Just as Ilúvatar had foretold.
I have a What if video suggestion.
What if Smaug had killed Bilbo and had taken the One Ring for himself?
So the Noldor or other 'High Elves' were called back to the West, but what about the forest elves who had never seen the light of the Two Trees?
Tears thinking of Frodo, then Sam, then Gimli receiving their golden ticket and departing into the West.
I'm reminded of Mark Twain's book, Letters from the Earth. The plot is an angle visits Earth and gets to know the wants and desires of us stupid mortals. One believe the angle mentions in a letter back to his kin in Heaven goes like this...
If you have lived a good, pious life, you will go to Heaven when you die. You will dress in white robes, have angles wings, sit on a cloud, play a harp, and sing Hosanna, Hosanna for eternity, and love it.
The angle, disguised as human, asks people if they play the harp and sing Hosanna now. "Of course not!" says the humans. Well, why not? "Because that would be boring." And won't it be boring in Heaven? "Of course not!" Why? "Because in Heaven we will be made to love it!"
So when it comes to Elves in the Undying Lands, you have to wonder why they didn't all go. Yes, I know all about the sundering, the Avari, etc. But after countless thousands of years, before the coming of the Sun and Moon, the Avari, the Sindar, the Nandor, they all could have taken a few centuries off, asked Cirdan for a ride, etc. You know, an Elf Vacation. They didn't.
And what about the Silvan Elves who accepted Galadriel as their Lady? She must have told stories to them about Valinor, even if she wasn't allowed to go. None of them bothered to pull up stakes and make the journey? Certainly by then she would have told them they had nothing to fear from Orme or the other Valar. But none of them went. You can say they loved Middle-earth all you want. But the fact remains, not one, at least that we know of.
I suspect it got boring, like all societies that is settled for too long. It gets classist and snobbish, everyone in everyone else's business. Social score keeping. And eventually, no matter how many amusements and fine restaurants there are, you just get sick of it.
6:10
That's a really cool drawing of Sauron.
I think that’s supposed to be Morgoth, during is duel with Fingofin.
@@mediadunce653
Oh ok it looks a lot like Sauron.
Yes, but what specifically happened to Gandolf, Frodo and bilbo when they were in the Gray Havens? How long did they live before they passed away? Did Gandolf wait until they both passed away from old age before finally relinquishing his physical body? I’d also be curious to find out what Gandolf looked like originally before taking human form. 🤔
Lands there are to west of West,
Where night is quiet, and sleep is rest.
There is a message of hope at the end of the video....
Nice breakdown.
Finrod has himself some groupies it seems. He must be rockin' that harp.
"It's the smell" - Elrond, probably
"If there is such a thing. I can *taste* your *stink* and every time I do, I fear I've somehow been *infected* by it. It's repulsive, isn't it?"
*sails with all haste to the West, furiously scrubbing himself with a soft elven towel*
Would the avaris also get that longing of crossing over the seas even though they did not see the light of Valinor?
@@Enerdhil he is Sindarin. Im? Talking about those that actively rejected the summons.
I think all of the remaining Elves would have felt that longing, regardless of whether they had ever beheld the light of Valinor. However, I suspect that the few who remained behind and faded would be mostly Moriquendi.
@@Enerdhil I wondered what happened to those who chose to supposedly remain to the modern day, fading away to mere ghosts that were invisible and intangible to the rest of the world. Were they stuck like that, as punishment for their indecision (a truly horrific fate) or would they also be allowed to cross to the Undying Lands somehow one day, to be potentially re-embodied again in Valinor?
The first recorded case of White flight in Middle Earth.
I didn’t know Elvis ever went there...
Since Arwen traded places with frodo she is mortal now correct? She wanted to be with Aragorn
What about the Sindarin and other elves that never went to Valinor. Did they feel the pull of the West particularly at the end of the Third Age?
The fate of Tolkien elves is still better when comparing it to the fate of the elves in Witcher and Dragon Age.
I know Gandalf left to the west, but what ever happened to Radagast the brown, did he too leave for the west or did he manage to stay in middle earth? Great video as always, something to look forward to on Sundays. :)
probably stayed, considering his job of taking care of nature wasn't over right?
They're basically just going home after the end of a long journey who's outcomes and trials they could've never known when setting out, thinking it was a mere quest for vengeance and the silmarils to begin with. Their time to go home had come I suppose.
the Noldor are BAMF's...
Frodo is ayte he held posession of the Ring for around 17 years give or take 6months, while Bilbo held it for 60 years and used it much more than Frodo, gives you some depth of the fortitude of Bilbo.
Thanks
I always wondered how many Noldor where left in Middle Earth at the end of the 3rd age and how many of these where from the original journey is the first age. Anyone have an estimate?
A bare handful east of the Blue Mountains. There may have been more in the Grey Havens, as a remnant of the last kingdom of the Noldor in Lindon, but we're never really shown what lies in those lands.
As for original Noldor, probably none, as Galadriel and Glorfindel both came from later generations. Cirdan may well have been a firstborn elf, but he was a Sindar, as he never saw the light of the two Trees.
I don't think it's ever said exactly. There's Galadriel, Glorfindel, and Gildor Inglorion (who Frodo meets towards the beginning of the journey out of the Shire). I have to imagine there are more unnamed Noldor among the Galadhrim, Gildor's group, and in the house of Elrond. I'm pretty sure after the fall of Beleriand the remaining Noldor kinda scattered and mixed into the societies of the Sindarin elves, so it's hard to say.
New followers to the channel and LOVING all the lore any chance theres a video on the Origins of the Fell Beasts? And why did the Nazgul ride horses at the start of there hint and not just the Fell Beasts
I still want to think that somehow, Ungoliant was waiting all this time to make a comeback along with the Nameless Ones.
Would love a video on the Avari, or Maraquendi.
The way things are going these days I rather wish I could leave Earth as well.
Where did you find all these amazing drawings of this era?
He does an unfathomable quest. Could live like a King in other places but returns to the Shire because of his love for his culture, friends and people. Then leaves it behind to go off into the unknown? I could understand if it was to heal his body and mind rom the tolls of the adventure. Will there be a village of Hobbits, there? Stew, pot-roast, Yorkshire pudding, meat pies?
Thanks!
I weep like an infant every single time I finish this movie
I always felt Elves were the extremes of men.
If an elf was a good person they were the epitome of goodness. Take the greatest elven hero's of the first age, they were greater than the greatest of the race of man.
But then take the great Kin slaying, the temptation Galadriel felt, the Grudge Thranduil held. These were far worse than most ever done by men.
So i always precieved they were the lesson to men. To show balance by demonstrating the extremes. That even the best can have evil, and that bad can do good. By doing so they would show men how to embrace all the sides of their characters, to accept they can be great or evil all through the choices and actions they take.
Once Men reach that stage, where now they have the lessons they leave bringing the true vision of Erus world into fruition.
Homie got me crying in the club rn
Hey Yoysten. I logged back onto my discord and cant find your server. How can I get back into it?
Is someone cutting onions in here? 😥
The elves left in search for a hero like you to follow. I don’t blame them, I may just leave and seek you out myself