Workflow suggested for Adobe Creative Cloud users and Windows PC* (Also works for MAC) (*Since Airdrop and Apple Photos is not a thing there): 1. Import the raw photos into Lightroom CC on your iPhone. 2. Turn on Lightroom Synch both on your phone and Computer (works with Lightroom Classic). 3. Go into Lightroom on your PC (Works for both MAC and PC). And your iPhone RAWs will pop up on your computer as they are synched via Adobe Creative Cloud. Edit your photos either on your iPhone or Computer. Works both ways.
I was going to suggest the same, I’ve only done this with a few photos so far, but helps maintain the intentionality of using raw for more “pro” photos
Exactly my thoughts 👍. Can you get Rid of the iPhones oversharpening in lightroom as well? Worst case by taking pics with the lightroom app yo start with (yes, then you would not benefit from the pro raw enhancements, but I worry most about iPhones artificial photo quality)
LightRoom is currently treating ProRAW pictures as regular RAW files which means you aren't getting the added layers of computation. You're merely editing a RAW file straight off the sensor which is why we haven't been blown away ProRAW, and JPEG's still look great in comparison. Only ProRAW pictures edited in Photos are getting the added computational layers. I'm hoping we will get updates from editing software that can take full advantage of ProRAW.
When ever I try to edit a proRaw image in photos it changes my image to an extremely underexposed image, from that point I can’t recover the image and the image is lost. I don’t know why it’s doing this. I literally can’t use proRaw because of this.
@@1970nikkisixx As I tried, you can actually recover the lights and color that iPhone has. But it takes time to match whatever iPhone has. I created an INS account if you want to take a look: @shotoniphone_mark
TYPICAL- Apple BS- they make the benchmark. Every developer spends the next 6 month catching up with updates to APP. Recently saw Filmic Pro update it’s V Log 3 to 10 Bit ... GREAT !!! Only to find it’s for IP 12 + & Pro Max only. For everyone else- TOUGH LOVE. So now your forced to buy IP 12 + & more if you want 10 Bit. Apple ECO system. Their way or no way at all. 👎🏻👎🏻👎🏻👎🏻👎🏻
I don’t believe this is the case. I’ve seen raw vs proraw edits in Lightroom and there’s notably more dynamic range resulting in more shadow and highlight detail in the proraw version, there’s also more detail in general and less noise. All this suggests that you are getting the added computation power of Apples photography engine, not just a raw sensor output. What Lightroom isn’t applying is apples post processing corrections, such as colour grading, tone curves etc. Lightroom’s only relatively recently started doing this properly for Fuji cameras, so I’m not holding out much hope for it to match iPhone photos output any time soon, but at least it provides an opportunity to recover photos that may have not been possible with just a jpg.
I’m always keen for some workflow efficiency! Let me know if these tips are useful to you… ✌️ Edit: For those mentioning the RAW filter in the photos app; that actually came as an update _after_ publishing this video (filmed with iOS 14.3 beta). This workflow is still beneficial to me though, as it allows me to specify the camera when filtering.
Hi Joe, I’ve had similar workflow issues but think I’ve got mine simplified now. First, I have a Siri shortcuts auto run every time I put my iPhone phone on do not disturb. It automatically adds iPhone captured photos to an album called ‘camera’, similar to how your smart filter works on the Mac. I then use Lightroom CC to transfer photos between the iPhone and computer. In iPhone Lightroom I just manually select the photos from my camera album, I can then easily see which photos have been previously uploaded and which need adding. On my PC I have Lightroom auto download the originals, I therefore have the online copy that I can edit on iPhone, iPad or PC, and a local backup of the original file. I moved away from Lightroom classic a year back as I prefer editing on my iPad, so not sure if classic can see or sync the Adobe cloud photos, so may not be an option for you, but certainly easier than cables and usb connections. Also, iPhone does support USB 3, I use that to upload photos from my Fuji cameras SD card direct to Lightroom CC and it’s way faster than USB 2.
Hi Joe, you mentioned the option to record video with 50 fps. I only see the 25 fps option when I enable PAL formats. Am I missing anything or will it work automatically?
Best video I've seen regarding the topic, many thanks ✌. How about just taking the important pictures via the lightroom app and just do all the editing by hand. Will this get rid of the whole over sharpening issue? That way the important pics are synced with lightroom. All the non important pics can stay in the apple photo album. Periode. Wouldn't that solve all the problems?
Even if it is an old video, was very useful to me...thank you, good job! One question if you have time: do you think it is worth to use so many space to shoot in ProRaw 48Mp? The difference in terms of quality looks minimal (I mean always raw but 12 o 48 Mp), but the difference about used space is huge...do you advice to shoot in 48 anyway? I mean if you don't have ideas of large prints, but normal high quality pics for the screen...
I am doing some batch copy work shot in Raw for photographing art to then edit in Lightroom, end result will be a web gallery for an artist to sell work (90 images or so of copy work). I used Airdrop for the RAW files from an iPhone Pro Max 13 to my Macbook, then moved them from the download folder to an external drive for long term storage, (the images converted to DNG). However, I just tried another route by uploading the RAW images directly from my iPhone to the Lightroom App using my home WiFi. I am thinking that could work since it is a pretty simple job this time around, not too many images nor extreme edits. Does this sound like a good way to go in this context? Thanks for the great video, I hope Apple stops by to hear your feedback!
Very helpful. Been struggling with this for three days. I will try your solution now. I have auto sync with light room turned on in my camera and in lightroom. All the photos sync to the mobile lightroom on my iPhone but even with a 50 Mb per second connection it takes days to get 100 raw photos onto Lightroom desktop on my Mac!
You discuss photos in the iPhone library vs uploading photos from an SD card in your camera to Lightroom. What is your thought about using the camera in the lightroom app on the iPhone?
Hello Thank you for your video. After editing your photos on your computer and exported them on your computer, what do you do? You remove the pro raw files from your iPhone and import in the photos app the edited/exported photos (in jpeg) on your phone? Thanks
Hi, informative indeed. I have given up using iCloud Photos, ie. I don't sync it anymore. I use Google Photos instead, as it has got a much fancier filtering system and I am more used to the Google ecosystem. But, I am still struggling getting a workflow that works for me, as I use Capture One as a RAW editor. I'll keep trying.
I also noticed if you use other file synch applications like onedrive, it only picks up a jpg vs the DNG file. So my onedrive think it's synch'd everything when it really hasn't. Would be nice if the iOS photos app has an ALBUM at least for photos taken by the native camera -- at least that would help. I see albums from 3rd party apps separated, not sure why there wouldn't be one called 'camera'.
Useful but I am still not sure what is the difference between ProRAw and say the RAW (dng) files Pixel 4a, 5 generate out of the native camera app. I understand Pixel also apply their computational arsenal to the RAW images. is ProRaw basically Apple catching up with Pixel and other phones' native apps?
the smart album feature on the phone app is, to me, the best facilitator (gives flexibility but doesn't open the door out of the Apple ecosystem too much). Is it possible for a third party app (say Amazon Photos or Adobe Creative Cloud) to access a specific Album on the iPhone so the files in this specific album gets uploaded/synched automatically ? (I don't know I'm on Android considering a pro iPhone as next phone particularly for this ProRaw feature...)
So helpful as we are in a new lockdown I was wondering If you could do a full camera gear video as all that gear in the setup video is wanting me to see more. Keep it up and keep safe
you are so right about the workflow! so messy that I turned off sync between iCloud, Mac and iPhone. To delete the duplicates waste so much time that takes off the enjoyment of the photography .
Great video. Helps my decision on whether to shift (back) to iPhone. I had hoped to be able to use Airdrop to my iPad when I travel and have to think about data use. As much as I would like having ProRaw, I don’t think it’ll be worth the hassle as I mostly shoot well-lit scenes. So leaning towards the Sony Xperia 5ii now, although that will require getting a card reader that’ll work with the iPad.
Thanks Joe, another excellent video. One thing though and am sure you are aware off is that there is a RAW album already in Photos. My one got all the RAW/DNG images from all the cameras I own (including raw files from Apps on every iPhone I ever had) and images uploaded from them. Is there no way to segregate PRORAW images from this album on your desktop? presumably not, as you would have mentioned it! Thanks again
Yup! Noticed the raw album in photos on iOS, but for whatever reason I don’t have that on my Mac photos app. Likewise, smart albums created on the Mac don’t seem to transfer to iOS. If it comes as an update, at least one step will be removed from the workflow. Although the smart album does allow for specifying the camera rather than just raw images from any camera 👍
@@joeallam Weird! I'm the opposite, I can find it on my MBPro 15'' running Big Sur under Media Types albums but not on my 12ProMax. I do like your work around though as can make separate smart albums for my cameras as well, which never occurred for me to do.Thanks for your reply.
Seriously? I use the Canon camera connect app when I shoot and all the photos from my RP go right to a folder called RP on my iPad. I get home and Airdrop all the photos from the RP folder to my Mac. Takes way less time than an SD card transfer to my Mac. Do you not know how to use iOS 14? Because you now have RAW under media types in the Photos app. Open it up and all your ProRAW files are there. Select them and airdrop them to your Mac, it’s simple.
Why don’t you just use LR mobile if only for a way to get your photos to the Mac? The Adobe cloud makes syncing easy. I just open my pro raws in LR mobile straight on my phone and then they are readily available on my Mac or iPad. So easy.
Joe, This has been a very helpful video...I've been pondering either the IPhone 12 Pro for the ProRaw potential, or the 12 mini for its smaller size that i much prefer. I didn't appreciate the difficulties with trying to get them into my IMac where i'd much rather do my editing in LR. Regards, Craig
Thanks ... this is very insightful and useful. What about using Google Photos on the iPhone (as well as other Google services on iPhone and your Mac...)?
Very thorough insight into the format, I’m sad it never extended past the 12 pro’s but it is what it is, still seems like a few really silly quirks there you had to solve, I’m sure they’ll improve it soon👍🏻
I find thats is very odd that the native editing hasn’t been enhanced. I literally never use the native iPhone editing because its so poor compared to DarkRoom or Photoshop. Wasn’t Apple going to release better editing options with ProRaw?
WORKFLOW SUGGESTION: Save the PRO RAW image to FILES immediately after taking it. It has to be done immediately so it doesn't get compressed when syncing. Later it can be saved to an external SSD. Problem solved. Also: RAW POWER is the best editor to handle the Smart HDR PRO RAW. Great video, thanks.
EXCELLENT video and thanx for addressing the SAME problem i'm having too. i'm a portrait photographer and trying to see how to best integrate my iphone shots in a shoot. i subscribed and will go thru the rest of your content when i get time
btw, i'm a longtime LR user and sure hope i don't have to drop it :-) as a next vid (if not already done), r u planning to see how all this applies if you shoot with an app such as halide mk2 ???
I only use Lightroom, preview, and Photoshop on my Mac because of the control I want over my images and their locations. That's why the issues raised in this video don't apply to me.
Really interesting video! Thank you! The solution is maybe working with the iPad Pro and Lightroom for iPad. But I know this version of Lightroom has limitations.
No icloud, no airdrop transfers, no weird hypothetical microSD slots on the phone... if only iphones had usb C, the experience of transfering these kind of files would be so different.
Man thank you so much! I didn’t realize a new version of iOS was out with ApplePro Raw! You just also made it so simple and clear to understand how this all work! Cheers 🤯
Yup! But of a silent update for the most part. I actually installed the beta a few days before just so I could test it out and get some thoughts on it all. Glad you found it useful!
It did, like all your videos. Love your content. Favorite channel on the platform. Hope the new restrictions aren’t gonna stop you from posting videos. Looking forward to the next one
You do know that the photos app on your iPhone has an album of raw photos, or videos or any format that exists in your library already built in don’t you, and that you can view any of those albums on their own and that you can share them to any third party software you want, directly from your iPhone. So the whole premise of this video is basically that you either just don’t know this or or that you’re choosing to ignore it, neither of which is particularly smart.
That option for raw in the photos app (both desktop and iOS) wasn't there at the time of filming this video. It came as a minor build update shortly after this was published. Although it's a welcome and obvious addition, there are still frustrations with the workflow to a computer given the slow cable speeds, unreliable AirDrop/data connection at large quantities and requirement to manually select through images from an album.
Brilliant breakdown of ProRaw format Joe! I’m an Apple fanboy but absolutely HATE those parts to Apple’s ecosystem. Airdrop is a pain in the butt, the Photos app sucks and the limitations associated with the lightning port (other than not being USB-C) is enough to make anyone go crazy, fanboys included. Seems like a few simple fixes on Apple’s behalf would solve a lot of professional’s issues. IMO the iPhone has the best smartphone camera out there but even so it is NOT a device for pros - to suggest that it is a professional camera is a bit of a stretch!
Lr and other programs has to be updated... now they can’t read all the metadata. There are other apps that can, like rawpower. There is ton of metadata on the file, and lr can’t read them
Interesting. I’m assuming you’re referring to the “edits” iOS makes for the raw parameters etc.? Would be good if these got interpreted by Lightroom in an update, for sure!
I do the manual method. I import ProRaws after every photo walk or after a few days, then delete them on my phone. ProRaws will fill your iPhone quickly. The rate at which people consider 2-3 minutes "too slow or long" make me scratch my head. Taking photos is manual, life is mabual. And should be so. All- automatic is not something that desirable in my opinion.
I get the pics off the phone ASAP by uploading them to Google Drive and deleting them on the phone. I can then download them quickly for editing on my PC. At 100 gbps download speed, not much of a problem. Just wish Comcast would increase upload speeds, but it's still not a bad workflow. I pay $3/mo for 200 GB storage on Drive.
We bought 2 iPhone 12 Pro Max and they both have awful antenna receptions and to return them and go back to my iPhone 11 Pro Max way better for rural areas
Just when I thought you missed a detail or topic, you nailed it! I haven’t heard anyone else talking about the possible port less iPhone and no data transfer over a wire! I backup my phone to iTunes over a cable every year so I have a seamless transition to my new phone.
I heard that data will transfer through the MagSafe, one of the coils will enable that? I am 100% sure Apple has thought of all the possible issues and will have a solution.
@@andyH_England my guess is that will only be available to Apple store techs for diagnostic purposes. The average iPhone user never does any data transfer over a wire, and they’d much rather push iCloud storage packages.
@@andyH_England while I haven’t used a cable with my iPhone for several years now, data comms via MagSafe sounds like a good idea. Hope they implement it. I think syncing to iTunes is still possible without a cable (over WiFi), but I can’t remember if a cable is still needed when setting it up for the first time.
@@Wishwader No cable is needed now. It is done seamlessly via NFC and wifi or via iCloud. They certainly need a backup hardware method when they go portless and I suspect MagSafe will be the solution.
This is a very informative video. It is nice to hear that I am not losing my mind with workflow issues. Sometimes you feel like you are the only one having difficulties. Very useful suggestions here. Thanks!
Unfortunately that still brings in all the images I’ve airdropped back to my iPhone and plenty of other images that aren’t necessary in my Lightroom. For Lightroom, I only really want the images I think have potential for editing/publishing somewhere, not the personal stuff.
@@joeallam But choose them ... instead of airdrop choose to send to lightroom mobile .. and put them in the sync folder in LR Mobile ... then at least 1 step will be removed as they will automatically be added to your LR Catalogue ...
Sorry I should have been clearer, the images I airdrop back to my iPhone aren't necessarily photos/edits from Lightroom. I also have designs and graphic work I use for socials etc. All created in apps other than Lightroom. A basic/common example would be multiple variations of thumbnail designs or story layouts I use for Instagram. Even if I were to sync photo edits back to my phone with Lightroom, I'd still need to also open Lightroom on my iPhone and export them to my camera roll so I could post them to social media etc.
@@joeallam I'm confused .. so you wanted a way to take a specific image which as you say in the video was created intentionally and edit in LR ... for me, it's quite an easy solution ... choose those photos and instead of an airdrop to mac send them to LR Mobile .. Open LR Mobile and add them to your syn folder .. done deal .. sure it's still not as straight forward as a direct import but would remove at least 1 step (the import on your Mac) ...
@@BimblesWithACamera Yep, and that's definitely a legitimate workflow as well for the most part. However, it still requires filtering through my camera roll to choose specific images and making sure not to miss any. No big deal, but still something to note. Doing the method that works for me, I can make that choice at the point of shooting the image in the first place, by toggling the raw mode. I didn't mention in this video, but have mentioned in multiple others, I also make use of Lightroom's file renaming and local storage management based on destination, alongside the project/album organisation. This is so I can easily switch to other apps like Capture One in the future. I've used referenced libraries ever since Aperture and it's saved my bacon far too many times when migrating. Lightroom sync doesn't currently allow much flexibility in those options, especially the file naming/local storage management, so either way I would spend time re-organising them and re-locating their files inline with my other images. All in all, I imagine they would even out for time, so I guess it just depends on which way you want to approach it. These old videos might be good reference for my file management if you're interested: Travel setup ua-cam.com/video/Bs3BHoevomk/v-deo.html & Lightroom import (old but same process still applies) ua-cam.com/video/jdA8yUUwmnw/v-deo.html Cheers 👍
Apple and "allowing user more control" is like fire and water lol, they will never let you control and fix anything, they will decide what's best for you. I use Macbook Pro for work and the workflow on it is terrible, especially when you want to do multi-tasking, on Windows it's so much faster and smoother.
Have you tried a workflow which involves using an iPhone app which presents the iPhone as a drive over the LAN? The Documents (by Readdle) app has a WebDAV option buried in its settings which when enabled allows the Mac to mount the file system over the local network. This app also shows “View and transfer photos to desktop - share using WiFi”. Been some time since I played with the app, but even if the app doesn’t work well for photos, I’d be surprised if the general idea (a built in server like WebDAV) hasn’t been picked up by dedicated photo apps.
I haven’t tried that specifically. But Finder does display the iPhone as an external source. However, because I’m using iCloud Photo Library I can’t view browse the images. Don’t know if that would affect any apps that offer it as an option…
@@joeallam I noticed the filter you created on your Mac is: RAW format AND camera model = iPhone. Is the "Camera model = iPhone" necessary? Seems just the RAW format would be enough to filter out images created by messaging apps and screen captures etc. If that's the case then see if PhotoSync Pro for iOS does what you want. It's been a few years since I last used the app but I just reinstalled it and its come a long way! It has an impressive number of sync options. When setting up a new sync target it has some options for which images to sync. One of those options is 1) Both RAW + JPEG, or 2) RAW only, or 3) JPEG only. Selecting the "RAW only" option might be enough for your workflow. Can also untick "Screenshots" to exclude those. And can untick "WhatsApp", though presumably that wouldn't affect images from other messaging apps. Along with a few other options. But it seems "RAW only" would be enough? Then a case of setting up the app to automatically sync those images to a convenient place - eg computer, phone/tablet, WebDAV, FTP, SMB, cloud, iExpand Drive - it seems to have an extensive list.
Just to add to my reply. Had a response from the dev that the RAW/JPEG/both option I mentioned won't help here - it only applies to RAW+JPEG pairs. So standalone JPEGs would be unaffected by this option and still get synced across. Oh well! But at least the option to exclude screenshots would help. Not sure if the option to exclude WhatsApp images also applies to other messaging networks too. If I remember correctly, WhatsApp would be the main one given it places images in the photos library automatically, where as others like Telegram keeps the images within the app by default.
i've complained about how android organizes photos however seeing the mess that is your photo.app, i'm a bit more grateful haha. i'm still going to get a iphone max pro but this is good to know.
Haha! I think my underlying concern is… what is the situation gonna look like in 20 years? It hasn’t changed much in the last 10 and we’re taking even more images on our phones these days.
Images in your Photos are photos you made or put them.. can’t see how it is a flaw? Stop putting them there if you don’t want them there .. or delete 😅
The work around is simple - FAV 💙 your selects, create a folder within Photo App- name it EDITS. Hit select. Move all your FAVS to that folder. Now all your folder FAVS to export. Other solution - Gnarbox drive. Delete once saved. Now your device has it’s stodgier back.
Well, not surprising… Nikon and Atomos teamed up to create ProRes RAW over HDMI from the Z6 to the Ninja… and it works… but the process flow… well, it doesn’t exist! There is NO profile in FCPX to handle it! (Did Apple sabotage the effort?) there are not LUTs to baseline your work and - no matter how hard you try to control the lighting and the exposure - the slightest change and you are color grading from scratch!!! You can try using the Sony Cine profile (Nikon uses the Sony video chip) of your can use Nikon’s NLOG but it’s not like with ProRes RAW shot on a Sony, or Cannon or Red! And that’s before we get to SIZE that Apple uses to GOUGE customers into buying every greater - proprietary - hardware/devices! To serious edit ProRes RAW you need a dedicated NAS over ThunderBolt (unless you wanna shell out THOUSAND$$$ for hardware that can be handed by Hundred$$$ w/o being Appled!
Apple ProRAW isn’t great. It still adds sharpening and de-noising, resulting in reduced quality compared to RAW. So there still isn’t a true raw native on iPhone’s camera app. A $300 pixel phone can offer a higher quality raw whereas iPhone 12 Pro Max is over $1000 and it still offers a lower quality raw that adds sharpening.... ProRAW isn’t great considering the price of this phone. It’s stupid. And anyone who praises is it ignorant as hell on the topic of photography. Sheep.
Lightroom doesn’t support proraw. You’re just getting the raw image. No tone mapping or HDR magic. Darkroom rawpower have support. This video is completely invalidated. Please do some research.
Regardless of whether Lightroom supports ProRAW fully or not. It’s still a mess getting the files off the iPhone as smoothly as a regular camera that shoots raw. That’s what this video is mainly about, if you would have watched through it all.
@@skipcooney for a start, because it is recognised as a dng file not a proraw file. Apps that support proraw show it as a proraw. And also because a Lightroom dev was on the Lightroom Reddit and said right now it just recognises it as a bare bones dng without the stacking and support would come some time in q1. And also because it’s quite obvious that the image in Lightroom isn’t quite right. Open the image in darkroom and you’ll see what I mean.
@@ChrisClayton I see. Looking forward to Lightroom support for ProRAW later in q1. For now it's disappointing because I rely on Lightroom for organizing and editing photos. Do you know what going on with the LrC color profile "Apple Embedded Color Profile"?
@@skipcooney I’m in exactly the same boat as you. Pixelmator and darkroom both support proraw but are very poor imitators of Lightroom. The weirdness with the profiles was whyI first started digging around. I could see it wasn’t right. Apple embedded is too dark and Adobe colour didn’t have the dynamic range data to make exposure adjustments that I would normally mak as far as I could tell. To be honest I’m still not sure which one to use. And it wasn’t mentioned by the dev in Reddit. I’ll see if I can dig up the link to that thread. The lack of support is only a real problem with images that would utilise hdr tone mapping. The imported dng in Lightroom can still Give great results.
Not a scam, though I see where you are coming from. iPhones have been able to shoot in RAW for years via third-party apps. All Apple is now doing is making it OS level like with Samsung. They market it as ProRAW. We are all grown up enough to understand all OEMs use marketing and I suspect you won't call Samsung a scammer when they copy another feature from another company?
Workflow suggested for Adobe Creative Cloud users and Windows PC* (Also works for MAC) (*Since Airdrop and Apple Photos is not a thing there): 1. Import the raw photos into Lightroom CC on your iPhone. 2. Turn on Lightroom Synch both on your phone and Computer (works with Lightroom Classic). 3. Go into Lightroom on your PC (Works for both MAC and PC). And your iPhone RAWs will pop up on your computer as they are synched via Adobe Creative Cloud. Edit your photos either on your iPhone or Computer. Works both ways.
Thanks for this suggestion. Sounds like a good idea.
I was going to suggest the same, I’ve only done this with a few photos so far, but helps maintain the intentionality of using raw for more “pro” photos
Exactly my thoughts 👍. Can you get Rid of the iPhones oversharpening in lightroom as well? Worst case by taking pics with the lightroom app yo start with (yes, then you would not benefit from the pro raw enhancements, but I worry most about iPhones artificial photo quality)
LightRoom is currently treating ProRAW pictures as regular RAW files which means you aren't getting the added layers of computation. You're merely editing a RAW file straight off the sensor which is why we haven't been blown away ProRAW, and JPEG's still look great in comparison. Only ProRAW pictures edited in Photos are getting the added computational layers. I'm hoping we will get updates from editing software that can take full advantage of ProRAW.
When ever I try to edit a proRaw image in photos it changes my image to an extremely underexposed image, from that point I can’t recover the image and the image is lost. I don’t know why it’s doing this. I literally can’t use proRaw because of this.
@@1970nikkisixx As I tried, you can actually recover the lights and color that iPhone has. But it takes time to match whatever iPhone has. I created an INS account if you want to take a look: @shotoniphone_mark
TYPICAL- Apple BS- they make the benchmark. Every developer spends the next 6 month catching up with updates to APP. Recently saw Filmic Pro update it’s V Log 3 to 10 Bit ... GREAT !!! Only to find it’s for IP 12 + & Pro Max only. For everyone else- TOUGH LOVE. So now your forced to buy IP 12 + & more if you want 10 Bit. Apple ECO system. Their way or no way at all. 👎🏻👎🏻👎🏻👎🏻👎🏻
Pixelmator photo in the IPadOS has already been updated for ProRaw, I haven’t tried editing on it yet
I don’t believe this is the case. I’ve seen raw vs proraw edits in Lightroom and there’s notably more dynamic range resulting in more shadow and highlight detail in the proraw version, there’s also more detail in general and less noise. All this suggests that you are getting the added computation power of Apples photography engine, not just a raw sensor output. What Lightroom isn’t applying is apples post processing corrections, such as colour grading, tone curves etc. Lightroom’s only relatively recently started doing this properly for Fuji cameras, so I’m not holding out much hope for it to match iPhone photos output any time soon, but at least it provides an opportunity to recover photos that may have not been possible with just a jpg.
I’m always keen for some workflow efficiency! Let me know if these tips are useful to you… ✌️ Edit: For those mentioning the RAW filter in the photos app; that actually came as an update _after_ publishing this video (filmed with iOS 14.3 beta). This workflow is still beneficial to me though, as it allows me to specify the camera when filtering.
Hi Joe, I’ve had similar workflow issues but think I’ve got mine simplified now. First, I have a Siri shortcuts auto run every time I put my iPhone phone on do not disturb. It automatically adds iPhone captured photos to an album called ‘camera’, similar to how your smart filter works on the Mac. I then use Lightroom CC to transfer photos between the iPhone and computer. In iPhone Lightroom I just manually select the photos from my camera album, I can then easily see which photos have been previously uploaded and which need adding. On my PC I have Lightroom auto download the originals, I therefore have the online copy that I can edit on iPhone, iPad or PC, and a local backup of the original file. I moved away from Lightroom classic a year back as I prefer editing on my iPad, so not sure if classic can see or sync the Adobe cloud photos, so may not be an option for you, but certainly easier than cables and usb connections. Also, iPhone does support USB 3, I use that to upload photos from my Fuji cameras SD card direct to Lightroom CC and it’s way faster than USB 2.
Hi Joe, you mentioned the option to record video with 50 fps. I only see the 25 fps option when I enable PAL formats. Am I missing anything or will it work automatically?
@@MrSamoDude Thanks your idea! and now i can export the original file to icloud”files”, it auto sync to my pc and mac
Best video I've seen regarding the topic, many thanks ✌. How about just taking the important pictures via the lightroom app and just do all the editing by hand. Will this get rid of the whole over sharpening issue? That way the important pics are synced with lightroom. All the non important pics can stay in the apple photo album. Periode. Wouldn't that solve all the problems?
Even if it is an old video, was very useful to me...thank you, good job! One question if you have time: do you think it is worth to use so many space to shoot in ProRaw 48Mp? The difference in terms of quality looks minimal (I mean always raw but 12 o 48 Mp), but the difference about used space is huge...do you advice to shoot in 48 anyway? I mean if you don't have ideas of large prints, but normal high quality pics for the screen...
I am doing some batch copy work shot in Raw for photographing art to then edit in Lightroom, end result will be a web gallery for an artist to sell work (90 images or so of copy work). I used Airdrop for the RAW files from an iPhone Pro Max 13 to my Macbook, then moved them from the download folder to an external drive for long term storage, (the images converted to DNG). However, I just tried another route by uploading the RAW images directly from my iPhone to the Lightroom App using my home WiFi. I am thinking that could work since it is a pretty simple job this time around, not too many images nor extreme edits. Does this sound like a good way to go in this context? Thanks for the great video, I hope Apple stops by to hear your feedback!
Will Adobe and others be able to show the ‘processed’ look of proraw shots eventually?
love the quality of your videos, I was wondering if you use a teleprompter to read your script??
Very helpful. Been struggling with this for three days. I will try your solution now. I have auto sync with light room turned on in my camera and in lightroom. All the photos sync to the mobile lightroom on my iPhone but even with a 50 Mb per second connection it takes days to get 100 raw photos onto Lightroom desktop on my Mac!
You discuss photos in the iPhone library vs uploading photos from an SD card in your camera to Lightroom. What is your thought about using the camera in the lightroom app on the iPhone?
Hello
Thank you for your video.
After editing your photos on your computer and exported them on your computer, what do you do?
You remove the pro raw files from your iPhone and import in the photos app the edited/exported photos (in jpeg) on your phone?
Thanks
Hi, informative indeed. I have given up using iCloud Photos, ie. I don't sync it anymore. I use Google Photos instead, as it has got a much fancier filtering system and I am more used to the Google ecosystem. But, I am still struggling getting a workflow that works for me, as I use Capture One as a RAW editor. I'll keep trying.
I also noticed if you use other file synch applications like onedrive, it only picks up a jpg vs the DNG file. So my onedrive think it's synch'd everything when it really hasn't. Would be nice if the iOS photos app has an ALBUM at least for photos taken by the native camera -- at least that would help. I see albums from 3rd party apps separated, not sure why there wouldn't be one called 'camera'.
This is a very useful video. Thank you so much for this tip! Good work!
Useful but I am still not sure what is the difference between ProRAw and say the RAW (dng) files Pixel 4a, 5 generate out of the native camera app. I understand Pixel also apply their computational arsenal to the RAW images. is ProRaw basically Apple catching up with Pixel and other phones' native apps?
the smart album feature on the phone app is, to me, the best facilitator (gives flexibility but doesn't open the door out of the Apple ecosystem too much).
Is it possible for a third party app (say Amazon Photos or Adobe Creative Cloud) to access a specific Album on the iPhone so the files in this specific album gets uploaded/synched automatically ? (I don't know I'm on Android considering a pro iPhone as next phone particularly for this ProRaw feature...)
So helpful as we are in a new lockdown I was wondering If you could do a full camera gear video as all that gear in the setup video is wanting me to see more. Keep it up and keep safe
So what’s better, Apple ProRaw or Lightroom DNG + HDR combined?
you are so right about the workflow! so messy that I turned off sync between iCloud, Mac and iPhone. To delete the duplicates waste so much time that takes off the enjoyment of the photography .
Great video. Helps my decision on whether to shift (back) to iPhone. I had hoped to be able to use Airdrop to my iPad when I travel and have to think about data use. As much as I would like having ProRaw, I don’t think it’ll be worth the hassle as I mostly shoot well-lit scenes. So leaning towards the Sony Xperia 5ii now, although that will require getting a card reader that’ll work with the iPad.
Thanks Joe, another excellent video. One thing though and am sure you are aware off is that there is a RAW album already in Photos. My one got all the RAW/DNG images from all the cameras I own (including raw files from Apps on every iPhone I ever had) and images uploaded from them. Is there no way to segregate PRORAW images from this album on your desktop? presumably not, as you would have mentioned it! Thanks again
Yup! Noticed the raw album in photos on iOS, but for whatever reason I don’t have that on my Mac photos app. Likewise, smart albums created on the Mac don’t seem to transfer to iOS. If it comes as an update, at least one step will be removed from the workflow. Although the smart album does allow for specifying the camera rather than just raw images from any camera 👍
@@joeallam Weird! I'm the opposite, I can find it on my MBPro 15'' running Big Sur under Media Types albums but not on my 12ProMax. I do like your work around though as can make separate smart albums for my cameras as well, which never occurred for me to do.Thanks for your reply.
Seriously? I use the Canon camera connect app when I shoot and all the photos from my RP go right to a folder called RP on my iPad. I get home and Airdrop all the photos from the RP folder to my Mac. Takes way less time than an SD card transfer to my Mac. Do you not know how to use iOS 14? Because you now have RAW under media types in the Photos app. Open it up and all your ProRAW files are there. Select them and airdrop them to your Mac, it’s simple.
I don’t know why would you edit on your computer as if I’m not mistaking the programs aren’t supporting proraw...
Why don’t you just use LR mobile if only for a way to get your photos to the Mac? The Adobe cloud makes syncing easy. I just open my pro raws in LR mobile straight on my phone and then they are readily available on my Mac or iPad. So easy.
Joe, This has been a very helpful video...I've been pondering either the IPhone 12 Pro for the ProRaw potential, or the 12 mini for its smaller size that i much prefer. I didn't appreciate the difficulties with trying to get them into my IMac where i'd much rather do my editing in LR. Regards, Craig
Thanks ... this is very insightful and useful. What about using Google Photos on the iPhone (as well as other Google services on iPhone and your Mac...)?
Very thorough insight into the format, I’m sad it never extended past the 12 pro’s but it is what it is, still seems like a few really silly quirks there you had to solve, I’m sure they’ll improve it soon👍🏻
Is it better to edit on Lightroom Proraw or true Raws with Moment App on Iphone 12 pro max ?
Great vid! Please do a short review on the Max compared to the 12 Pro.
Hey Joe, I have to ask, what make are your eyeglasses? They look terrific! Kinda what I've been looking for for months now,...
They’re from Bailey Nelson. Glad you like them!
@@joeallam Thanks a lot! They really work for you! 100% :)
PAL?! Thats a HUGE feature!
Absolutely! I've been wanting this for years!
What is ?
Was expecting a video about the Apple ProRaw format and what it can do. Saw a video about shortcomings of Apples way of syncing photos.
I find thats is very odd that the native editing hasn’t been enhanced. I literally never use the native iPhone editing because its so poor compared to DarkRoom or Photoshop. Wasn’t Apple going to release better editing options with ProRaw?
WORKFLOW SUGGESTION: Save the PRO RAW image to FILES immediately after taking it. It has to be done immediately so it doesn't get compressed when syncing. Later it can be saved to an external SSD. Problem solved.
Also: RAW POWER is the best editor to handle the Smart HDR PRO RAW.
Great video, thanks.
EXCELLENT video and thanx for addressing the SAME problem i'm having too. i'm a portrait photographer and trying to see how to best integrate my iphone shots in a shoot. i subscribed and will go thru the rest of your content when i get time
btw, i'm a longtime LR user and sure hope i don't have to drop it :-)
as a next vid (if not already done), r u planning to see how all this applies if you shoot with an app such as halide mk2 ???
I only use Lightroom, preview, and Photoshop on my Mac because of the control I want over my images and their locations. That's why the issues raised in this video don't apply to me.
What about the Image Capture app on your Mac?
Really interesting video! Thank you! The solution is maybe working with the iPad Pro and Lightroom for iPad. But I know this version of Lightroom has limitations.
No icloud, no airdrop transfers, no weird hypothetical microSD slots on the phone... if only iphones had usb C, the experience of transfering these kind of files would be so different.
Definitely very informative. This is definitely an epitome of a groundbreaking feature with significant downsides!
How to import DNG raw file to windows PC?
Man thank you so much! I didn’t realize a new version of iOS was out with ApplePro Raw! You just also made it so simple and clear to understand how this all work! Cheers 🤯
Yup! But of a silent update for the most part. I actually installed the beta a few days before just so I could test it out and get some thoughts on it all. Glad you found it useful!
It did, like all your videos. Love your content. Favorite channel on the platform. Hope the new restrictions aren’t gonna stop you from posting videos. Looking forward to the next one
You do know that the photos app on your iPhone has an album of raw photos, or videos or any format that exists in your library already built in don’t you, and that you can view any of those albums on their own and that you can share them to any third party software you want, directly from your iPhone. So the whole premise of this video is basically that you either just don’t know this or or that you’re choosing to ignore it, neither of which is particularly smart.
That option for raw in the photos app (both desktop and iOS) wasn't there at the time of filming this video. It came as a minor build update shortly after this was published. Although it's a welcome and obvious addition, there are still frustrations with the workflow to a computer given the slow cable speeds, unreliable AirDrop/data connection at large quantities and requirement to manually select through images from an album.
I don’t really care about raw as much as I want manual iso and shutter speed control
Brilliant breakdown of ProRaw format Joe! I’m an Apple fanboy but absolutely HATE those parts to Apple’s ecosystem. Airdrop is a pain in the butt, the Photos app sucks and the limitations associated with the lightning port (other than not being USB-C) is enough to make anyone go crazy, fanboys included.
Seems like a few simple fixes on Apple’s behalf would solve a lot of professional’s issues. IMO the iPhone has the best smartphone camera out there but even so it is NOT a device for pros - to suggest that it is a professional camera is a bit of a stretch!
Clean looking desk.
Tidy tidy. 🤓
Lr and other programs has to be updated... now they can’t read all the metadata. There are other apps that can, like rawpower. There is ton of metadata on the file, and lr can’t read them
Interesting. I’m assuming you’re referring to the “edits” iOS makes for the raw parameters etc.? Would be good if these got interpreted by Lightroom in an update, for sure!
If I select camera model to the simplifies iPhone, it wont get into the smart folder. Only with the 12 Pro selected 🤔 no big deal tho.
That’s interesting… I wonder why?
Can’t you upload your raw photos directly from your iPhone to your Lightroom folders all on your phone?
Yes, you can.
i have trouble getting used to your now not-distorted head to body ratio
Not sure I fully understand…?
@@joeallam your vlog stuff (up close, hand held, wide angle) tend to made your head looks comically massive😅
Why dont you just go to the seperate RAW album in the Gallery?
I do the manual method. I import ProRaws after every photo walk or after a few days, then delete them on my phone. ProRaws will fill your iPhone quickly. The rate at which people consider 2-3 minutes "too slow or long" make me scratch my head. Taking photos is manual, life is mabual. And should be so. All- automatic is not something that desirable in my opinion.
I get the pics off the phone ASAP by uploading them to Google Drive and deleting them on the phone. I can then download them quickly for editing on my PC. At 100 gbps download speed, not much of a problem. Just wish Comcast would increase upload speeds, but it's still not a bad workflow. I pay $3/mo for 200 GB storage on Drive.
For the meantime, try to utilize shortcuts app.
We bought 2 iPhone 12 Pro Max and they both have awful antenna receptions and to return them and go back to my iPhone 11 Pro Max way better for rural areas
Where do you live ?
Just when I thought you missed a detail or topic, you nailed it! I haven’t heard anyone else talking about the possible port less iPhone and no data transfer over a wire! I backup my phone to iTunes over a cable every year so I have a seamless transition to my new phone.
I’m definitely concerned, but as always, there _are_ workarounds. Glad you liked the video!
I heard that data will transfer through the MagSafe, one of the coils will enable that? I am 100% sure Apple has thought of all the possible issues and will have a solution.
@@andyH_England my guess is that will only be available to Apple store techs for diagnostic purposes. The average iPhone user never does any data transfer over a wire, and they’d much rather push iCloud storage packages.
@@andyH_England while I haven’t used a cable with my iPhone for several years now, data comms via MagSafe sounds like a good idea. Hope they implement it. I think syncing to iTunes is still possible without a cable (over WiFi), but I can’t remember if a cable is still needed when setting it up for the first time.
@@Wishwader No cable is needed now. It is done seamlessly via NFC and wifi or via iCloud. They certainly need a backup hardware method when they go portless and I suspect MagSafe will be the solution.
Very useful, thanks so much!
Very useful video, thanks!
You just saved me from throwing my phone and MBP through the window! THANK YOU!
This is a very informative video. It is nice to hear that I am not losing my mind with workflow issues. Sometimes you feel like you are the only one having difficulties. Very useful suggestions here. Thanks!
Lightroom CC Sync not an option .. that's how I've been doing it ...
Unfortunately that still brings in all the images I’ve airdropped back to my iPhone and plenty of other images that aren’t necessary in my Lightroom. For Lightroom, I only really want the images I think have potential for editing/publishing somewhere, not the personal stuff.
@@joeallam But choose them ... instead of airdrop choose to send to lightroom mobile .. and put them in the sync folder in LR Mobile ... then at least 1 step will be removed as they will automatically be added to your LR Catalogue ...
Sorry I should have been clearer, the images I airdrop back to my iPhone aren't necessarily photos/edits from Lightroom. I also have designs and graphic work I use for socials etc. All created in apps other than Lightroom. A basic/common example would be multiple variations of thumbnail designs or story layouts I use for Instagram. Even if I were to sync photo edits back to my phone with Lightroom, I'd still need to also open Lightroom on my iPhone and export them to my camera roll so I could post them to social media etc.
@@joeallam I'm confused .. so you wanted a way to take a specific image which as you say in the video was created intentionally and edit in LR ... for me, it's quite an easy solution ... choose those photos and instead of an airdrop to mac send them to LR Mobile .. Open LR Mobile and add them to your syn folder .. done deal .. sure it's still not as straight forward as a direct import but would remove at least 1 step (the import on your Mac) ...
@@BimblesWithACamera Yep, and that's definitely a legitimate workflow as well for the most part. However, it still requires filtering through my camera roll to choose specific images and making sure not to miss any. No big deal, but still something to note. Doing the method that works for me, I can make that choice at the point of shooting the image in the first place, by toggling the raw mode. I didn't mention in this video, but have mentioned in multiple others, I also make use of Lightroom's file renaming and local storage management based on destination, alongside the project/album organisation. This is so I can easily switch to other apps like Capture One in the future. I've used referenced libraries ever since Aperture and it's saved my bacon far too many times when migrating. Lightroom sync doesn't currently allow much flexibility in those options, especially the file naming/local storage management, so either way I would spend time re-organising them and re-locating their files inline with my other images. All in all, I imagine they would even out for time, so I guess it just depends on which way you want to approach it. These old videos might be good reference for my file management if you're interested: Travel setup ua-cam.com/video/Bs3BHoevomk/v-deo.html & Lightroom import (old but same process still applies) ua-cam.com/video/jdA8yUUwmnw/v-deo.html Cheers 👍
Best solution will be if You can connect phone directly to lightroom on your mac/pc
Please do a video about the xe3 if you may ? 🙈
One of the best UA-cam videos I have seen on this topic. Keep up the good work!
Apple and "allowing user more control" is like fire and water lol, they will never let you control and fix anything, they will decide what's best for you.
I use Macbook Pro for work and the workflow on it is terrible, especially when you want to do multi-tasking, on Windows it's so much faster and smoother.
Workflow✍️ on windows✍️ is much faster ✍️and smoother ✍️#noted bro
Have you tried a workflow which involves using an iPhone app which presents the iPhone as a drive over the LAN? The Documents (by Readdle) app has a WebDAV option buried in its settings which when enabled allows the Mac to mount the file system over the local network. This app also shows “View and transfer photos to desktop - share using WiFi”. Been some time since I played with the app, but even if the app doesn’t work well for photos, I’d be surprised if the general idea (a built in server like WebDAV) hasn’t been picked up by dedicated photo apps.
I haven’t tried that specifically. But Finder does display the iPhone as an external source. However, because I’m using iCloud Photo Library I can’t view browse the images. Don’t know if that would affect any apps that offer it as an option…
@@joeallam I noticed the filter you created on your Mac is: RAW format AND camera model = iPhone. Is the "Camera model = iPhone" necessary? Seems just the RAW format would be enough to filter out images created by messaging apps and screen captures etc. If that's the case then see if PhotoSync Pro for iOS does what you want.
It's been a few years since I last used the app but I just reinstalled it and its come a long way! It has an impressive number of sync options. When setting up a new sync target it has some options for which images to sync. One of those options is 1) Both RAW + JPEG, or 2) RAW only, or 3) JPEG only. Selecting the "RAW only" option might be enough for your workflow.
Can also untick "Screenshots" to exclude those. And can untick "WhatsApp", though presumably that wouldn't affect images from other messaging apps. Along with a few other options. But it seems "RAW only" would be enough? Then a case of setting up the app to automatically sync those images to a convenient place - eg computer, phone/tablet, WebDAV, FTP, SMB, cloud, iExpand Drive - it seems to have an extensive list.
Just to add to my reply. Had a response from the dev that the RAW/JPEG/both option I mentioned won't help here - it only applies to RAW+JPEG pairs. So standalone JPEGs would be unaffected by this option and still get synced across. Oh well!
But at least the option to exclude screenshots would help. Not sure if the option to exclude WhatsApp images also applies to other messaging networks too. If I remember correctly, WhatsApp would be the main one given it places images in the photos library automatically, where as others like Telegram keeps the images within the app by default.
Good video. thanks! You share some reasonable thoughts. Hopefully Apple will listen to that.
Seeing that 907X! 😍
I’m continuing the testing and enjoying the images it’s producing!
Will we someday see ProRaw on 11 Pro?
Unlikely. The 12 pro has 6GB memory and uses it all alongside the A14. Don’t think the 11 could handle that
The microphone is sharper than your eyes
i've complained about how android organizes photos however seeing the mess that is your photo.app, i'm a bit more grateful haha. i'm still going to get a iphone max pro but this is good to know.
Haha! I think my underlying concern is… what is the situation gonna look like in 20 years? It hasn’t changed much in the last 10 and we’re taking even more images on our phones these days.
100k, out of control . :)
And I though my 3000 photos were a lot lol
11:00. nice
Goodness...
Not a single "major flaw" of Apple ProRAW is shown as highlighted in the title...
Click bait..
Images in your Photos are photos you made or put them.. can’t see how it is a flaw? Stop putting them there if you don’t want them there .. or delete 😅
The work around is simple - FAV 💙 your selects, create a folder within Photo App- name it EDITS. Hit select. Move all your FAVS to that folder. Now all your folder FAVS to export. Other solution - Gnarbox drive. Delete once saved. Now your device has it’s stodgier back.
No bigger sensor, no better image. PERIOD.
Great video!!!
Thanks!
I guess Apple doesn't care about other process softwares. Too bad :(
V nice vlog
How did you meet each other do a how you meet each other
Well, not surprising… Nikon and Atomos teamed up to create ProRes RAW over HDMI from the Z6 to the Ninja… and it works… but the process flow… well, it doesn’t exist! There is NO profile in FCPX to handle it! (Did Apple sabotage the effort?) there are not LUTs to baseline your work and - no matter how hard you try to control the lighting and the exposure - the slightest change and you are color grading from scratch!!! You can try using the Sony Cine profile (Nikon uses the Sony video chip) of your can use Nikon’s NLOG but it’s not like with ProRes RAW shot on a Sony, or Cannon or Red!
And that’s before we get to SIZE that Apple uses to GOUGE customers into buying every greater - proprietary - hardware/devices!
To serious edit ProRes RAW you need a dedicated NAS over ThunderBolt (unless you wanna shell out THOUSAND$$$ for hardware that can be handed by Hundred$$$ w/o being Appled!
@Apple please give me iPhone for this Xmas as gift 🙂
Apple ProRAW isn’t great. It still adds sharpening and de-noising, resulting in reduced quality compared to RAW. So there still isn’t a true raw native on iPhone’s camera app. A $300 pixel phone can offer a higher quality raw whereas iPhone 12 Pro Max is over $1000 and it still offers a lower quality raw that adds sharpening.... ProRAW isn’t great considering the price of this phone. It’s stupid. And anyone who praises is it ignorant as hell on the topic of photography. Sheep.
So shoot true raw with Moment App...
😍
❤
Lightroom doesn’t support proraw. You’re just getting the raw image. No tone mapping or HDR magic. Darkroom rawpower have support. This video is completely invalidated. Please do some research.
Regardless of whether Lightroom supports ProRAW fully or not. It’s still a mess getting the files off the iPhone as smoothly as a regular camera that shoots raw. That’s what this video is mainly about, if you would have watched through it all.
How do you know this?
@@skipcooney for a start, because it is recognised as a dng file not a proraw file. Apps that support proraw show it as a proraw. And also because a Lightroom dev was on the Lightroom Reddit and said right now it just recognises it as a bare bones dng without the stacking and support would come some time in q1. And also because it’s quite obvious that the image in Lightroom isn’t quite right. Open the image in darkroom and you’ll see what I mean.
@@ChrisClayton I see. Looking forward to Lightroom support for ProRAW later in q1. For now it's disappointing because I rely on Lightroom for organizing and editing photos.
Do you know what going on with the LrC color profile "Apple Embedded Color Profile"?
@@skipcooney I’m in exactly the same boat as you. Pixelmator and darkroom both support proraw but are very poor imitators of Lightroom. The weirdness with the profiles was whyI first started digging around. I could see it wasn’t right. Apple embedded is too dark and Adobe colour didn’t have the dynamic range data to make exposure adjustments that I would normally mak as far as I could tell. To be honest I’m still not sure which one to use. And it wasn’t mentioned by the dev in Reddit. I’ll see if I can dig up the link to that thread. The lack of support is only a real problem with images that would utilise hdr tone mapping. The imported dng in Lightroom can still
Give great results.
The biggest scam ever 🤣😂 ai raw on Android phones. Have been around for years.! Has nothing to do with real raw photography.
Not a scam, though I see where you are coming from. iPhones have been able to shoot in RAW for years via third-party apps. All Apple is now doing is making it OS level like with Samsung. They market it as ProRAW. We are all grown up enough to understand all OEMs use marketing and I suspect you won't call Samsung a scammer when they copy another feature from another company?
and only pixel has managed to make it good...