This was super informative, thank you! Just bought one of these today and I didn't realize I could get power out of the display unit, that's incredibly helpful.
A huge thank you to you - and your wife, it was this video which convinced me to order a Vado 4.0 - purchased locally here in Germany from the distributor. Took delivery five weeks ago. Thrilled with it. Everything I was looking for. Your video told me what I needed to know, in addition to the one you referenced. Appreciated the time you took to put this together. Cheers !
Julie still smiles from ear to ear when she rides her bike. The bike has been very reliable, and she looks forward to another great bike season now that the snow has melted. Thanks for posting and have a great summer.
What a Godsend your video is to me. Back in 20" i purchased a Specialized Como 3.0. Fast forward I've had two total knee replacements and four level lumbar fusion. I'm rehabbing by getting back on my bike. My Como has a high bar and zero suspension.....all things that need to be addressed. I'm considering a Thudbuster but that only take care of half my suspension problem. So I started looking at new rides and boiled them down to Vado and Tesoro and low and behold I stumble across your video. I'm 70 and 220 lbs. and ride mostly in central Pennsylvania with mixture of gravel and backroads just like your travels. Mostly I need to protect my back fusion .....that's where I need a suspension. Any thoughts on my possible purchase would be appreciated. Like seeing your rides ...before COVID my wife and I bought property near Island Park, Idaho to build. We love snow but winter was just too long for us. Grace and Peace~
Hi David, I'm glad you found the channel. First of all, I hope that your new knees and fused lumbar will enable you to resume your active lifestyle. Between the two bikes, Julies 2022 Turbo Vado 4 bike and the 2021 Tesero Neo X1, I prefer to ride the Tesero and Julie prefers the Vado, but I tend to ride rougher routes and Julie prefers smoother routes. The riding position is similar, both have a suspension seat post and suspension front forks. The Cannondale can be made a bit more "cushy" as the front fork is an air adjustable fork and it has larger diameter wheels and wider tires. Both bikes are more than adequate for gravel roads and cobbles but neither will be as forgiving as a high-quality full suspension mountain bike. I don't know if the 2024 versions of these bikes are similarly equipped, so the difference between our two bikes may or may not still be valid. I have back and knee issues as well, so I have pretty much given up mountain biking and we no longer have the full suspension mountain bikes that we rode for years. At first I was a bit worried about giving up my rear suspension mountain bike, but for the type of riding I do now, cranking hard seems to bother my back more than the occasional bump. I like your idea of getting a Thudbuster for your current bike. Who knows, maybe adding a Thudbuster, lowering the tire pressure on your current bike and taking a standing position when you encounter a big bump might just be enough cushion so that you won't irritate your back. I suspect the Thudbuster is probably better than the suspension seat posts that are on our bikes, but I don't know that for sure. If so, it wouldn't be wasted money, as you might be able to use it on a new bike, depending on the diameter. Thanks for tuning in and best wishes.
Good stuff man , I love my turbo Vado SL 4.0 , l ride it on and off road and just did a video putting on new specialized sawtooth gravel tires that are awesome
@@billyrock8305 Best features: 10 levels of assist, very smooth interaction between motor and human power. Worst features: The cost of this bike is similar to other brands of a similar quality, but they are all too expensive for most people. I also hope that ebikes can lose a few pounds in weight as technology improves over time with lighter weight batteries and motors.
Tom Great video. I am looking at the same bike for me. The Vado 4.0 is also a good package for the price. Liked the feed back on the types of trails you ride. I might look for a little more aggressive tire for the trails and some single track. Do you have any suggestions? I was also curious what the button is that is next to your selector button on the Vado. thank you bill compton
Hi Bill. Julie really likes her bike. The tires that came on her 2022 bike are the pathfinder sport and they work well for pavement, gravel and dirt roads, the kind of terrain most suitable for this bike. Julie has ridden them on some rocky sections with large cobbles and she did not complain, but she hasn't ridden the tires in slick mud so I don't know how well they would work under those circumstances. I don't have any suggestions for a more aggressive tire. Here is a link to a more detailed description of the features and functions of the TCD2 control system on this bike. ua-cam.com/video/Gow-0q3rGP0/v-deo.html What might appear to be button just to the right of the control unit is the back of the brake lever
Julie switched from the 2021 Tesoro Neo X1 to the 2022 Turbo Vado 4 because she felt that the Cannondale was too large for her (both bikes are the small frame size). It wasn't that she couldn't adjust the saddle low enough for her leg length, it was hopping on and off the bike that seemed to be her biggest complaint. The wheel diameter on the Cannondale is larger (29" on her Cannondale and 650 b, 27.5 on the Turbo Vado 4 ) and that makes the overall height from the saddle to the ground greater. When I put the bikes side by side, they don't seem all that different, but Julie says that she prefers a lower overall position. I notice on Cannondale's newer version of the Tesoro Neo bikes, the small frame size uses a smaller diameter wheel than the medium sized frames (27.5" on the small frame and 29" on all other frame sizes.) The other thing that Julie really likes on her Turbo Vado 4 bike is the ability to adjust the power assist in 10% increments, and there are only 4 levels of assist on her 2021 Cannondale. I think the Cannondale is a better bike for very rocky trails, especially with big cobbles, but for gravel roads and pavement, Julie prefers the Vado over the Cannondale.
I didn’t catch it in the video but what is the longest ride do you have Done on either the specialized or the Cannondale bike? And what was your average speed on that longest ride?
The Turbo Vado bike is Julie's bike. She bought the bike in July and now has 671 miles on the bike. Her longest ride to date, 38.3 miles with an average speed of 16.1 mph (61.6 km, 25.9 kph). This was a mixed route with both pavement and gravel. That was also my longest ride on the Tesoro Neo X1 this season, but I plan to ride it on a much longer trip next week if I get a good weather window. I hope to document the ride and post a video in early October. I've been on several longer rides with my Cannondale Topstone Neo Carbon 3 ebike that I bought in February 2021 and have documented a few of those rides on my youtube channel. Here is a link to one of those rides. ua-cam.com/video/cZrmKXeg41o/v-deo.html The stats for that ride are posted at the end of the video.
I haven't had the opportunity to ride a bike with the Kiox or a newer generation Purion unit. Both units have more features and options when compared to 2021 and 2022 Purion displays.
How is it on steep hills? I test rode one last week and I really like it but the area where I test drove didn’t have any steep hills. I think the clincher for me is the app as it seems to separate this bike from other manufactures. Anyway I need something to separate it as there is a dizzying array of choices if you go down that rabbit hole. I also like that my local shop will service it.
It does very well on steep hills and there is plenty of gearing range and power assist options in the bike to handle most any hill that you might encounter on a paved or gravel road. There are many times when I chase Julie up a hill at over 10 mph that would probably be a 5 mph hill climb on a traditional bike in its lowest gear. Some of the info in this video is now outdated as Bosch's newest motor and controller systems have similar app tweaking and update features as Specialized, but I have no experience with the new Bosch systems. Julie loves her bike and I'm sure it will last a very long time. I just checked her bike and she now has 1757 miles on the odometer (2828 km)
@@tomm9850 Thanks for the information, I appreciate it. I’ve been riding a Trek I converted to mid drive electric and it does fine on hills so I don’t want to lose anything. But it’s awful on bumpy roads at the higher speeds as it has narrow tires and no shocks. So I’m in it for the better ride and the app. Don’t think I can go back to a regular bike as a main bike. Because I’ve got hills here. 🤷🏼♂️
Really enjoyed the video. Been on the fence between this bike and Medeo 10+ by Gazelle. I believe your Cannondale has the same motor as the Medeo. Do you notice a difference between the Bosche 85nm torque and the Brose 70nm torque? I'm really starting to think the VADO is the bike for me, but no local Specialized shops in my area. The shop that used to sell Specialized no longer does so, but they do carry Gazelle. Cheers!
I'm not familiar with the Medeo 10+ but the system on Julie's Turbo Vado 4.0 bike is very refined. Julie put about 700 miles on her bike last summer and is very happy with its performance. It is hard to do a direct comparison between the Turbo Vado 4 and the Cannondale Tesoro Neo X1 as they feel very much like different bikes. The Tesoro is a much bigger bike with larger tires, more travel in the front forks and different gearing. Both motors have ample power for riding on the typical uphill grades found on public roads. I don't think that Julie has even noticed the drop in power from 85 to 70nm. It might be noticeable if we rode the bikes at their top assist speed, but they seem to have very similar performance at 22 mph which is a very comfortable speed for us. I think the Tesoro would be a better choice for non-technical trail use, but the Vado has done just fine on some pretty rocky, rough sections. The two features that Julie really likes are the ability to see the battery charge in percent and the ability to adjust the assist level up and down in 10% increments. I wish the 2021Tesoro had those features. I don't know if the newer versions do. At any rate, you are in for blast. Happy riding and thanks for tuning in.
Get the Gazelle. It's a better bike and it's UL approved. The Bosch is a much better motor and 85 beats 70 all day long. Be surprised if Special Lies is even in business next year and not filing for bankruptcy. They bought the farm when they thought the high bike sales during Covid would continue. Now they have warehouses full of bikes they can't sell.
The Vado 4 and the Tesoro Neo X1 have a very similar riding posture. The small frame size on the Tesoro Neo X1 feels larger than the small frame size on the Vado 4. I would describe the riding posture on both bikes as mostly upright with a slight forward lean. Here is a good view of the posture with Julie riding the Vado ua-cam.com/video/ujoRDmCcJSk/v-deo.html and here is a good view of Julie riding the Neo X1 ua-cam.com/video/9gCdk7S4awM/v-deo.html Here is a good side view of the two bikes ua-cam.com/video/ujoRDmCcJSk/v-deo.html and you can see that they are pretty similar
Nice video. I live in a the Appalachian mountains and looking for a bike to help me traverse those roads. What's been your climbing experience with the Vado relative to other ebikes you've ridden?
It sure is a lot of fun riding at max assist, especially uphill and against the wind. Take care, be safe, and watch the range estimate to make sure you can complete your journey. :)
Julie's Turbo Vado 4 is the small size frame. Julie is 5' 5" (165 cm) tall. The dealer thought she should have gone with the medium size, and she test rode both sizes, but the small size felt better to her. A person of the same height with longer legs might have felt better on the medium size frame.
@tomm9850 thanks! I'm buying as a gift for my 5'5" wife. I'll go with small step over. Especially because of bike weight. I am 5'9" and the medium was fine for me actually. I was worried the standover of the step over small might be too high for her.
Videoyu beğendiğinize sevindim. İlgilendiğiniz ve geri bildirim gönderdiğiniz için teşekkür ederiz. I'm glad you enjoyed the video. Thanks for tuning in and for posting feedback.
Hi Susan. I'd be happy to answer any questions you might have in the channel comments. The danger of either you or I posting our email address in a public forum is the risk of being bombarded with spam and unwanted emails. I wish there was a way to have a private conversation on the UA-cam platform, but as far as I know, there is none.
It is a heavy bike, that is for sure, but similar to other ebikes in the same class. Hopefully bikes can be lighter in the future if they can improve on the battery and motor weight.
I have the SL and actually ride it most of the time without power assist. On a 20 mile ride I will use power assist only on serious hills. The Mission Control app will tell you the "average assist" over your total ride (as well as all sorts of other information) and I am usually below 10% assistance averaged over the ride.
I love my Vado SL too and ride similarly....but I just ordered one of these full power Vado 4.0's as they are now on sale for an unbeatable $2750. As you already know...the Vado and the Vado SL are similar only in name and I welcome having one of each example in my garage.@@mitchk2981
This was super informative, thank you! Just bought one of these today and I didn't realize I could get power out of the display unit, that's incredibly helpful.
I'm sure you will have a lot of fun with your new bike. Thanks for tuning in and for posting feedback. Be safe and have a great week.
A huge thank you to you - and your wife, it was this video which convinced me to order a Vado 4.0 - purchased locally here in Germany from the distributor. Took delivery five weeks ago. Thrilled with it. Everything I was looking for. Your video told me what I needed to know, in addition to the one you referenced. Appreciated the time you took to put this together. Cheers !
Julie still smiles from ear to ear when she rides her bike. The bike has been very reliable, and she looks forward to another great bike season now that the snow has melted. Thanks for posting and have a great summer.
What a Godsend your video is to me. Back in 20" i purchased a Specialized Como 3.0. Fast forward I've had two total knee replacements and four level lumbar fusion. I'm rehabbing by getting back on my bike. My Como has a high bar and zero suspension.....all things that need to be addressed. I'm considering a Thudbuster but that only take care of half my suspension problem. So I started looking at new rides and boiled them down to Vado and Tesoro and low and behold I stumble across your video. I'm 70 and 220 lbs. and ride mostly in central Pennsylvania with mixture of gravel and backroads just like your travels. Mostly I need to protect my back fusion .....that's where I need a suspension. Any thoughts on my possible purchase would be appreciated. Like seeing your rides ...before COVID my wife and I bought property near Island Park, Idaho to build. We love snow but winter was just too long for us. Grace and Peace~
Hi David, I'm glad you found the channel. First of all, I hope that your new knees and fused lumbar will enable you to resume your active lifestyle. Between the two bikes, Julies 2022 Turbo Vado 4 bike and the 2021 Tesero Neo X1, I prefer to ride the Tesero and Julie prefers the Vado, but I tend to ride rougher routes and Julie prefers smoother routes. The riding position is similar, both have a suspension seat post and suspension front forks. The Cannondale can be made a bit more "cushy" as the front fork is an air adjustable fork and it has larger diameter wheels and wider tires. Both bikes are more than adequate for gravel roads and cobbles but neither will be as forgiving as a high-quality full suspension mountain bike. I don't know if the 2024 versions of these bikes are similarly equipped, so the difference between our two bikes may or may not still be valid. I have back and knee issues as well, so I have pretty much given up mountain biking and we no longer have the full suspension mountain bikes that we rode for years. At first I was a bit worried about giving up my rear suspension mountain bike, but for the type of riding I do now, cranking hard seems to bother my back more than the occasional bump. I like your idea of getting a Thudbuster for your current bike. Who knows, maybe adding a Thudbuster, lowering the tire pressure on your current bike and taking a standing position when you encounter a big bump might just be enough cushion so that you won't irritate your back. I suspect the Thudbuster is probably better than the suspension seat posts that are on our bikes, but I don't know that for sure. If so, it wouldn't be wasted money, as you might be able to use it on a new bike, depending on the diameter. Thanks for tuning in and best wishes.
Thanks Tom for that great reply. Getting old requires us to watch out for each other. Your input has been very helpful.
Good stuff man , I love my turbo Vado SL 4.0 , l ride it on and off road and just did a video putting on new specialized sawtooth gravel tires that are awesome
I checked out your channel. Nice looking bike and gravel roads. Thanks for tuning in and have a great summer.
@@tomm9850 thanks , you too
Really great video. Thank you!
Glad you enjoyed the video. Thanks for tuning in and for posting feedback.
Very light and nice bike! 😊
Julie sure likes the bike and has put lots of miles on it. Thanks for tuning in and for posting a comment.
@@tomm9850
Best and worst features?
@@billyrock8305 Best features: 10 levels of assist, very smooth interaction between motor and human power. Worst features: The cost of this bike is similar to other brands of a similar quality, but they are all too expensive for most people. I also hope that ebikes can lose a few pounds in weight as technology improves over time with lighter weight batteries and motors.
Thanks!
Great video
Glad you enjoyed the video. Thanks for posting and have a great 2024.
Tom
Great video.
I am looking at the same bike for me.
The Vado 4.0 is also a good package for the price.
Liked the feed back on the types of trails you ride.
I might look for a little more aggressive tire for the trails and some single track.
Do you have any suggestions?
I was also curious what the button is that is next to your selector button on the Vado.
thank you
bill compton
Hi Bill. Julie really likes her bike. The tires that came on her 2022 bike are the pathfinder sport and they work well for pavement, gravel and dirt roads, the kind of terrain most suitable for this bike. Julie has ridden them on some rocky sections with large cobbles and she did not complain, but she hasn't ridden the tires in slick mud so I don't know how well they would work under those circumstances. I don't have any suggestions for a more aggressive tire. Here is a link to a more detailed description of the features and functions of the TCD2 control system on this bike. ua-cam.com/video/Gow-0q3rGP0/v-deo.html What might appear to be button just to the right of the control unit is the back of the brake lever
I’m trying to decide between those 2 bikes. I really like the Cannondale but it’s a bit big, and it is a 2021 x3 versus a newer Vado 4
Julie switched from the 2021 Tesoro Neo X1 to the 2022 Turbo Vado 4 because she felt that the Cannondale was too large for her (both bikes are the small frame size). It wasn't that she couldn't adjust the saddle low enough for her leg length, it was hopping on and off the bike that seemed to be her biggest complaint. The wheel diameter on the Cannondale is larger (29" on her Cannondale and 650 b, 27.5 on the Turbo Vado 4 ) and that makes the overall height from the saddle to the ground greater. When I put the bikes side by side, they don't seem all that different, but Julie says that she prefers a lower overall position. I notice on Cannondale's newer version of the Tesoro Neo bikes, the small frame size uses a smaller diameter wheel than the medium sized frames (27.5" on the small frame and 29" on all other frame sizes.) The other thing that Julie really likes on her Turbo Vado 4 bike is the ability to adjust the power assist in 10% increments, and there are only 4 levels of assist on her 2021 Cannondale. I think the Cannondale is a better bike for very rocky trails, especially with big cobbles, but for gravel roads and pavement, Julie prefers the Vado over the Cannondale.
What a view
Glad you enjoyed the view and thanks for coming along.
I didn’t catch it in the video but what is the longest ride do you have Done on either the specialized or the Cannondale bike? And what was your average speed on that longest ride?
The Turbo Vado bike is Julie's bike. She bought the bike in July and now has 671 miles on the bike. Her longest ride to date, 38.3 miles with an average speed of 16.1 mph (61.6 km, 25.9 kph). This was a mixed route with both pavement and gravel. That was also my longest ride on the Tesoro Neo X1 this season, but I plan to ride it on a much longer trip next week if I get a good weather window. I hope to document the ride and post a video in early October. I've been on several longer rides with my Cannondale Topstone Neo Carbon 3 ebike that I bought in February 2021 and have documented a few of those rides on my youtube channel. Here is a link to one of those rides. ua-cam.com/video/cZrmKXeg41o/v-deo.html The stats for that ride are posted at the end of the video.
meaning that that is as far as you could go on a single charge or that that just happened to be the longest distance you rode??? @@tomm9850
You need to update your Bosch comparisons to their Smart System with the Kiox displays. Much better IMO.
I haven't had the opportunity to ride a bike with the Kiox or a newer generation Purion unit. Both units have more features and options when compared to 2021 and 2022 Purion displays.
@@tomm9850 Bosch’s new Smart System is really remarkable. Many more features being rolled out in 2024.
How is it on steep hills? I test rode one last week and I really like it but the area where I test drove didn’t have any steep hills. I think the clincher for me is the app as it seems to separate this bike from other manufactures. Anyway I need something to separate it as there is a dizzying array of choices if you go down that rabbit hole. I also like that my local shop will service it.
It does very well on steep hills and there is plenty of gearing range and power assist options in the bike to handle most any hill that you might encounter on a paved or gravel road. There are many times when I chase Julie up a hill at over 10 mph that would probably be a 5 mph hill climb on a traditional bike in its lowest gear. Some of the info in this video is now outdated as Bosch's newest motor and controller systems have similar app tweaking and update features as Specialized, but I have no experience with the new Bosch systems. Julie loves her bike and I'm sure it will last a very long time. I just checked her bike and she now has 1757 miles on the odometer (2828 km)
@@tomm9850 Thanks for the information, I appreciate it. I’ve been riding a Trek I converted to mid drive electric and it does fine on hills so I don’t want to lose anything. But it’s awful on bumpy roads at the higher speeds as it has narrow tires and no shocks. So I’m in it for the better ride and the app. Don’t think I can go back to a regular bike as a main bike. Because I’ve got hills here. 🤷🏼♂️
Really enjoyed the video. Been on the fence between this bike and Medeo 10+ by Gazelle. I believe your Cannondale has the same motor as the Medeo. Do you notice a difference between the Bosche 85nm torque and the Brose 70nm torque? I'm really starting to think the VADO is the bike for me, but no local Specialized shops in my area. The shop that used to sell Specialized no longer does so, but they do carry Gazelle. Cheers!
I'm not familiar with the Medeo 10+ but the system on Julie's Turbo Vado 4.0 bike is very refined. Julie put about 700 miles on her bike last summer and is very happy with its performance. It is hard to do a direct comparison between the Turbo Vado 4 and the Cannondale Tesoro Neo X1 as they feel very much like different bikes. The Tesoro is a much bigger bike with larger tires, more travel in the front forks and different gearing. Both motors have ample power for riding on the typical uphill grades found on public roads. I don't think that Julie has even noticed the drop in power from 85 to 70nm. It might be noticeable if we rode the bikes at their top assist speed, but they seem to have very similar performance at 22 mph which is a very comfortable speed for us. I think the Tesoro would be a better choice for non-technical trail use, but the Vado has done just fine on some pretty rocky, rough sections. The two features that Julie really likes are the ability to see the battery charge in percent and the ability to adjust the assist level up and down in 10% increments. I wish the 2021Tesoro had those features. I don't know if the newer versions do. At any rate, you are in for blast. Happy riding and thanks for tuning in.
Get the Gazelle. It's a better bike and it's UL approved. The Bosch is a much better motor and 85 beats 70 all day long. Be surprised if Special Lies is even in business next year and not filing for bankruptcy. They bought the farm when they thought the high bike sales during Covid would continue. Now they have warehouses full of bikes they can't sell.
Does the Vado set you more upright than the Cannondale?
The Vado 4 and the Tesoro Neo X1 have a very similar riding posture. The small frame size on the Tesoro Neo X1 feels larger than the small frame size on the Vado 4. I would describe the riding posture on both bikes as mostly upright with a slight forward lean. Here is a good view of the posture with Julie riding the Vado ua-cam.com/video/ujoRDmCcJSk/v-deo.html and here is a good view of Julie riding the Neo X1 ua-cam.com/video/9gCdk7S4awM/v-deo.html Here is a good side view of the two bikes ua-cam.com/video/ujoRDmCcJSk/v-deo.html and you can see that they are pretty similar
@@tomm9850 thank you
Nice video. I live in a the Appalachian mountains and looking for a bike to help me traverse those roads. What's been your climbing experience with the Vado relative to other ebikes you've ridden?
It climbs very well and is similar in performance to the Bosch mid drive bikes in the same price range
I’m lazy, I’ll be leaving it on turbo or 90% assist
It sure is a lot of fun riding at max assist, especially uphill and against the wind. Take care, be safe, and watch the range estimate to make sure you can complete your journey. :)
The black turbo vado is not step through. I am wondering how tall you are, height. And is it a small size I assume. ?
Julie's Turbo Vado 4 is the small size frame. Julie is 5' 5" (165 cm) tall. The dealer thought she should have gone with the medium size, and she test rode both sizes, but the small size felt better to her. A person of the same height with longer legs might have felt better on the medium size frame.
@tomm9850 thanks! I'm buying as a gift for my 5'5" wife. I'll go with small step over. Especially because of bike weight. I am 5'9" and the medium was fine for me actually. I was worried the standover of the step over small might be too high for her.
They make a step through model
Yeah, I guess I should have her sit on one before I bring it home to make sure. Thanks for the replies.
@@brigav8975 we have 3 in our family and my sister feels best on her medium Turbo Como
When idling, sounds like a playing card in the spokes.
The freewheel/hub clicking sound while coasting is similar to many other bikes. The motor seems pretty quiet, but can be heard under certain loads.
Manzara müthiş
Videoyu beğendiğinize sevindim. İlgilendiğiniz ve geri bildirim gönderdiğiniz için teşekkür ederiz. I'm glad you enjoyed the video. Thanks for tuning in and for posting feedback.
Can we email questions?
Hi Susan. I'd be happy to answer any questions you might have in the channel comments. The danger of either you or I posting our email address in a public forum is the risk of being bombarded with spam and unwanted emails. I wish there was a way to have a private conversation on the UA-cam platform, but as far as I know, there is none.
I don’t like it, it’s very heavy too heavy in my
It is a heavy bike, that is for sure, but similar to other ebikes in the same class. Hopefully bikes can be lighter in the future if they can improve on the battery and motor weight.
You should check out the Specialized Turbo Vado SL 4.0 if you want a light ebike, it's 34 pounds and is light enough to pedal with the bike turned off
I have the SL and actually ride it most of the time without power assist. On a 20 mile ride I will use power assist only on serious hills. The Mission Control app will tell you the "average assist" over your total ride (as well as all sorts of other information) and I am usually below 10% assistance averaged over the ride.
I love my Vado SL too and ride similarly....but I just ordered one of these full power Vado 4.0's as they are now on sale for an unbeatable $2750. As you already know...the Vado and the Vado SL are similar only in name and I welcome having one of each example in my garage.@@mitchk2981