Tales of the Valiant Player's Guide Reviewed
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- Опубліковано 14 жов 2024
- Jeff shares his thoughts about the core rulebook for the high fantasy roleplaying game Tales of the Valiant from Kobold Press. The Player's Guide contains all the character creation options, gear, weapons, magic items, spells, and rules to get you playing. The volume clocks in a 386 pages and carries an MSRP of $59.99 or grab just the PDF alone at DriveThruRPG for $34.99.
The RPG is very 5E Dungeons & Dragons adjacent but is it TOO adjacent? You'll find out!
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#TalesoftheValiant #KoboldPress #TTRPGs - Ігри
Great points Jeff! Fantastic review. As much as I love Kobold Press, I appreciate an honest take on things. I would have loved to see KP invest in more lore books & adventures, especially in Northern Midgard than a reiteration of 5E. It could have even been system agnostic & it would no doubt be amazing. They really shine with what they did with Midgard. It’s fantastic no matter the system it incorporates. During the OGL, our Spelljammers raised the Black Flag & went straight to Midgard & we haven’t looked back since. Great reviews as always Jeff. Thank you.
Thank you PD!
The biggest differences I see after being now almost to 4th level is the structure of the character classes. While the spells are all very familiar, the martial classes in particular and many of the perks seem to be a bit stronger in most cases, and just generally fresher than 2014 5e. They simplify a lot of things, and utilize the proficiency bonus as a flat number for a wide variety of things, melee classes can add it to damage, utility classes use it for number of uses of class abilities, it’s streamlined from the randomness between classes of 5e.
The background/heritage split is pretty well done, and actually offers meaningful in game utility in almost every case I’ve seen in my large group of 7 or 8 players.
We’re running through a 5e version of temple of elemental evil so I have no info on KP monsters, but I’ve heard good things.
What I don’t like, is the gutting of racial options, humans seem like the obvious take because having 2 talents (feats) at 1st level is absurdly good. That being said, I’m playing a flying insectile beastkin wizard because I think it’s cool.
I appreciate your "no BS" style, even if I don't necessarily agree with all of your conclusions. You are one of the rare youtubers who comes across as saying what you actually think. Good video.
Thanks! I know I've got a pretty niche audience but they know I'm going to give them my thoughts and I'm not going to simply say something is "great" so Kickstarter vid offers arrive or the review copies keep flowing. ~ Jeff
Good to hear your perspective on this, Jeff! I look forward to picking this one up and giving it a go. I hope that this game works out for KP. ⚔🍻
You are doing some really good work at the moment. With thanks. Dear Sir you are in your prime. Flaunt it dear chap.
So nice of you!
Nice review. For what it's worth l have the same thoughts and feeling about TOV that you share here. 😉👍
Look forward to hearing your thoughts on the monster book. Kobold Press has generally added value to existing monsters in their 5e books by introducing an interesting twist as well as introducing some new creatures that feel fresh and unique.
Cheers!
Great review! Think it's the best one I've seen as you had probably the most unbiased review -- most reviews I've seen either love the game or hate the game. I have to say in the long run Kobold Press will probably do fairly well with ToV, but the problem for this silly category of supposed "D&D Killers" is that WoTC recanted (on the OGL debacle) -- so many people just went back to playing D&D 5e. Also, the problem with being too different I think is -- then why not just play one of the many fantastic well-supported TTRPGs that have existed for years: Pathfinder, RuneQuest, Fantasy AGE, 13th Age, Pendragon, Castles & Crusades, etc. Kobold Press is not going to knock it out of the park (and neither will DC20, DaggerHeart, MCDM, etc. ) -- because again most people will stick with D&D 5e, but that's not an issue for Kobold Press, where they make most of their money is their fantastic settings and adventures -- so in the end their goal was to make it easy to use their settings and adventures for both D&D 5e and for Tales of the Valiant. So a pretty good strategy I think.
For me my two main TTRPGs are Pathfinder and Castles & Crusades -- so I have no need for another TTRPG. However, I might make a small investment in Tales of the Valiant and try it out. The one reason I still play a little D&D 5e is it's easy to find people to play for it -- so am thinking it might be easy to find D&D 5e player's willing to try it -- by telling them it is super similar. Also, it sounds like I can use the D&D 5e material I already own with it -- which is a plus.
I love the 5e system and don't want to have to adapt all of the 3rd party content i have built up for a new system. Will i adopt some of the new 5e rules, yes, was i expecting a game changing book with ToV....no. I was expecting an alternate to continue on with a 5e style game because i don't want to support Wotc as much as i used to. I only expected minor changes and love the new way they took Warlock, keeping the identity, but allowing some additional spells, so you aren't starved for slots all the time. Overall it was exactly what i expected and was surprised so many people expected something different when they said they wanted to create a base for all of their other content, but i guess people just had wishful thinking.
Mean girl face: Pathfinder this is not.
If you like 5 e you play the new shiny 5e
If you don’t like 5e because mechanics this is not for you
If you don’t like 5e because of the publisher and OGL you’ve already switched (it was a year and a half ago)
If you like D&D but want less complexity - OSR and Shadowdark seemed to have filled that space
I honestly do not know who this game is for, unfortunately
folks whio want 5e without supporting whatever wotc is upto these days.
@4:00 on the starting power level. Keep in mind, you have a 1st level character that can do more stuff... BUT... they don't have any more hit points than a standard 5e (Or even a 5.5e) character. You can still get killed by goblin arrows if your archer character didn't go prone at the end of your turn!
16:32 Hard disagree. The reason you have various classes is so they feel different. Plus, you want players (& GMs) to have the option of a traditional D&D style spellcaster.
So you said it has the same problems I am left to assume that you are talking about how the spell casters get more powerful than the melee classes.
But you did not go over weapon options and the feature if things like the fighter etc... that ToV added. This is crucial as it DOES make them quite powerful in all the one shots I have played. I argue that they are made to be just as powerful as a spellcasters.
Also Kobold Press had said way early on about being way different than 5.e. true. But you are leaving out the article they put out right after WOTC announced they were moving thier stuff onto creative commons, that Kobold Press stated they were changing thier plan to use the creative commons stuff, get to use thier already made books and basically preserve 5.e. as it was before WOTC makes it unrecognizable with the 2024 stuff.
So it got to stay backwards compatible and become essentially D&D 3.5. So stating this makes no sense since this was well established before the kickstarter started and money was taken.
And the system Kobold Press was calling it was Core Fantasy Roleplaying. But due to everyone telling them on discord that it was a bad name and that it should be changed to Black Flag Roleplaying. Kobold Press did so and so Tales of the Valiant was created using the Black Flag Roleplaying System (BFR system) instead of the Core Fantasy Roleplaying System (CFR system).
My intention is not to bash anything just accurately lay out how everything about ToV changed behind the scenes as Kobold Press's intentions changed because of the creative commons decision by WOTC. Just wanted to give you the most accurate set of events as I have watched the entire development of this project from it's announcement to the changes in letters and why they changes happened. (Being in the Kobold Press discord gave everyone a open view to these changes).
We're currently playing Pathfinder 2e, having ported over from D&D5e because I (as GM) was getting fed up with various broken mechanics. One of my players however misses D&D5e - now there's Tales of the Valiant, if we do ever tire of Pathfinder (which for me as GM is such a great system) - Tales of the Valiant will be my first port of call.
I'll stick to reg 5e
and \ or Level Up A5e.
Its not worth the cost to buy a very similar aystem, especially without a free PDF.
Happy to spend that cash on Kobold Press setting and supplement books instead.
Enjoyed the review.
Thanks for your take on TotV.
In Yorkshire, we'd say it's 'neither nowt nor summat.'
Fence straddling to provide a solution for 'the D&D community' (whatever that's supposed to be), rather than a bold vision leaning into their own identity and setting books - the way Paizo did with Pathfinder during the 3.5 to 4e period and beyond - might have been very inclusive for all, but ends up feeling superfluous. It certainly seems like a lot of extra printed cardboard and paper to do mostly the same things as the other stuff you've got.
Although, I know Mike Shea (Sly Flourish) has thrown out 5e inspiration to adopt the TotV luck mechanics - but that would have fitted into a zine.
It'll be interesting to see if TotV has the longevity to survive into a second edition to push things in a more innovative direction.
I love 5e’s d20, roll-high mechanics. There’s just too much of it. Too many classes & sub-classes, too many feats, too many spells at low level, too many hit points, too much healing, too many death saves… It's crazy. I want all that but at 2e power levels.
I would be interested in knowing what you think it adds to D&D5e. Because if they are so much alike, would it not make more sense to just buy the Supplemenst and Adventures instead of the Core Rules?
I backed both ks of ToV
Want to mention that you didn't mention that Alignment is gone. as well as the Electrum pieces are gone too. There are a few other changes that make this game superior to D&D 5e 2014 version. I will say that I wish they had made a few more changes overall but I feel like this game is way better organized too.
The thing is those same changes are supposed to be in the "new not new" edition of D&D; I mentioned there are tweaks compared to 5E which end up not being so impressive once you realize they're also in the D&D revamp. Dropping alignment isn't a big deal either since Pathfinder has already done that and so will D&D later this summer. TotV isn't aiming to compete with 5E but rather the 2024 D&D update but since so little in TotV actually new, I don't see that ever happening. I also didn't think electrum pieces being gone as a currency was even worth a mention. I really do like Wolfgang and the Kobolds but TotV isn't anywhere near what people thought they were going to be getting when Kobold Press made a big deal the Blag Flag was being unfurled. ~ Jeff
Great review.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Basically agree with your review, too similar to 5E to carve its own niche, so I’m just not sure who this game is for.
“People who want to play 5E but refuse to give money to WotC” is what supporters have been saying. Is that the marketing line that is supposed to bring in new players? I love KP (and backed this KS), and wish them the best, but I’m not sure what kind of legs this will have.
The price point will keep me away. There are much better rpg values out there. Nimble 5E for D&D 5E like and Shadowdark for old school feel.
It appears to have the same generic, child-like, cartoon aesthetic as 5e books. An art choice that doesn't make it particularly unique or attractive regardless of the system (to me, at least). I have no interest in a Potterised, safe, bland RPG world.
Of course wizards was gonna cave, they were up against Disney.
What in the world are you talking about?
@@kellynewman-e3vOne of the OGL based products is star wars knights of the old republic , which is now owned by Disney & at the time of the OGL was supposedly going to get a faithful remake (it's since stalled and is in dev hell ). So yeah if they didn't back down they'd either have to offically enforce Disney having to pay(which would probably lead to a lawsuit that Disney could drag on as WotC flounders to make their case, similar to the 80s copyright fight that extended the rights of copyright to 90+ years in the US) OR make an agreement with Disney (which Disney would probably laugh at ) OR leave it as a huge ??? Which yeah if they did the last one , everyone from kobold to paizo and all the smaller but notable d&d creative who use OGL could sue saying that Disney is getting special treatment forcing the first two to happen or forcing WotC to give up the OGL to creative commons /lose any legal protection .
It strikes me as a pretty bland 5e clone. What’s the point? I guess they set themselves on a path with the black flag waving that they couldn’t turn away from. I think they should have been bolder and made some changes that they could hang their hats on to sell it. I think the book covers are weak as well…that Players book art is uninspiring. Also, the layout is kind of sci-fi with all the geometry and bright purple which doesn’t make me think olde world fantasy. Not for me, good luck to them though.
@dungeondumbo it's for new players that do not want to support dnd or hasbro, but wanna play 5e. That's the point.
@@SlayerOfWorlds pretty niche market. Most new players who want 5e will grab copies of the 2014 edition or jump into the 2024 edition. Others will probably get something simpler like Shadowdark. 🤷🏻♂️
My players and I have switched to it and honestly we prefer it to 5e. A lot of the classes are more fun and more interesting and more unique. The monsters didn't get as much of an upgrade which is a shame but in general I think it's better
@@zachp2034 cool, nice to hear your games with it are a success and it’s a winner. Good stuff 👍
Waving the black flag and to get away from D&D really shouldn't carbon copy so heavily. I hope they do well but it just feels way to similar to 2014 D&D
$120 for a kit bash on D&D on the eve of an official kit bash from Wizards in a couple of months doesn’t sound like a good value to me. I’m going to pass on this just because I’ll probably go with the new D&D out of a (irrational) sense of loyalty to the brand.
@@wforge I'm on the opposite foot, I'm not touching the offical D&D until WotC /Hasbro can't profit From it
@Ike_of_pyke Ond hundred percent. I'm done with WoTc at 5e. I have ToV, P2E, Runequest and GURPS for fantasy alone. I'm good.
I'm somewhere in the middle. I've bought one wotc supplement since the ogl thing. I was expecting to buy the 2024 rulebooks and possibly TOV as well. But I'm not in a hurry to do either. I'd rather see how other people like them and watch a few live plays. I'm worried the 2024 5.5 wotc version is offering a lot more player power but nothing, at least yet, for DMs except more problems. Sure they fixed some spells but left other duds to continue withering (e.g. find traps) and others that were already key picks they buffed (web) so they seem to be creating as many problems as they're fixing and I can't see another wotc rules set for 10 years to fix that. I'm worried weapon mastery will bog down combat more and not really give martials a whole lot more flexibility and as a DM I don't want my monsters prone all the time and nor will my players in practice but when that's the optimal strategy a fighters going to topple right. My dragon may never get airborne and that's no fun. So I'm thinking maybe TOV is the wiser move. I've got the kobold press tome of heroes and there are some fantastic subclasses in there that should slot right in. I want to see both monster books and the wotc dmg before I decide but I'm edging Kobolds at the moment.
@@nicka3697 so besdies WotC still pulling bs like the copyright striking of 2024's PHB videos and the leadership at Hasbro has been vocal about "yeah we're wanting you to go digital with your Hasbro products (like d&d ) in the future " , what you listed is just another reasons I'm not for supporting them , they've clearly abandoned the idea of even trying to balance it for the dm for a very player centric focus , forgetting the dm themselves are playing and trying to do things that are awesome . ToV has been very open about giving both players and GMs (since DM is a copyrighted term owned by Hasbro) tools , like their recent play test called Chiron , they gave both new player options AND gm a bunch of monsters (like 20) to play with
@wforge - I understand that nostalgia loyalty, but you need to get rational and fight it, because the Hasbro brass have no loyalty to the the players or the legacy of D&D. It is run by video game execs who consider a line to be exploited until no longer profitable and then dumped or, worse, put on the shelves in favor of the next thing.