As a classic rpg player with a strong inclination against players shaping the narrative beyond their character's actions, your amazing descriptions, detailed review, and enthusiasm have me spellbound (as well as the clever mechanics in this game). Now, instead of thinking of this as a 'wrong way to play rpgs' I think of it as 'an exciting different kind of rpg'. I think I will always prefer more traditional kinds of rpgs but thanks for opening my mind. Glad I subscribed and you have me thinking :)
I would wholeheartedly endorse this view. I came to ttrpgs via trad games like CoC, GURPs, Warhammer and more recently games with OSR stylings (among many, many others) so hadn't touched games that formalise player narrative input until last year. Then I played Trophy Gold, Blades in the Dark, Brindlewood Bay and Public Access, the latter being Jason Cordova's latest game. Every one of 'em is great and will completely rewire how you think about ttrpgs. Trophy Gold and Blades are probably the most straightforward for folks new to story games as they bridge the gap between trad and story game mechanics. Blades in particular is a good way to go, as it has a satisfying level of rules crunch and is frankly bloody brilliant and extremely easy to play and prep for once you've got the mechanics down. I can see why its become the new default game for a lot of people. Public Access has an intensity that I suspect feels very similar to The Between, but with genre roots that I'm more attracted to. Anyway, give this style of play a go. With the right group you won't look back.
You may be the first of that group I have been able to respect for that. To each their own! Personally, I've always enjoyed ttrpgs most as a collaborative experience. The attitude taken by a lot of die-hard D&D purists, etc, has been frustrating in the past. As with most, if not all, games: So long as everyone is having fun, you're playing it right.
I've been waiting for you to cover this since you mentioned it on your '10 ttrpgs we want to play' vid. Penny Dreadful was amazing and this looks like a great way to experience that world :)
I've been waiting to make this video since I started playing. Just needed to get to the end of my campaign first. Now I just want to start a brand new one all over again...
It’s a joy to experience your enthusiasm for the game. I’m struck by how many of the mechanics you mentioned are very reminiscent of the tools developed for solo RPGs. I wonder whether these types of improvisation games existed in group games before soloing discovered them or whether the solo games have fed back into group games.
My man! I'm currently running two campaigns of The Between; one has over 25 sessions already, and we've just started the other one. I have to admit, it's one of my top favorite games of all time :) The only thing is, I would say it's very much a "mastery-based game" - after each session, I did a retrospective, thinking about how the game procedures interact with the fiction, how its various subsystems work, etc. I listened to Jason's AP, read paratextual advice on how to run it. And I saw how from session to session the gameplay became more fluid, more technical, and everyone had a lot more fun. From my perspective, The Between is a complex instrument that requires a lot of skill.
As I say in the video, we just finished after 12 sessions and a Mastermind confrontation making it 13. Mastermind was Theodora, I ran all threats from the core book, plus The Demon of Kilburn Abbey and Spidersilk Seamstress. Hunters were American/Undeniable/Mother/Factotum, all except the Undeniable retired. Same table will go up against Admiral Flagg in 2025, with all new playbooks I think. Not sure The Undeniable has much story left, her arc was pretty much done. Even though she unscarred the masterwork, she marked 9/12 of her masks. I'll see what is included in the new KS version. Hopefully there's some new threats.
@@rafaelcupiael Yeah, we played longer sessions, 4-5hrs in person. I wanted to be sure we completed the complete day/night cycle in a session. I was a patron for a while, but I tend to shift my support between creators in a cycle, so I reckon I will rejoin at some point. I really hope to run Theodora again for a completely different table before I pick up with my first group in 2025. I want to get better at running the game a little quicker. If I can get a session down to 3.5hrs I'll be thrilled.
The moments you describe sound great. It seems that some people vibe much better with narrative driven rpg like this one and Monster of the Week. I and my group seem to get down better with the crunchy, simulation rpgs like Worlds Without Number and such.
I’ve run a campaign of The Between: Ghosts of El Paso which was a fantastic experience. I’m looking forward to introducing my group to The Between and Public Access.
Thanks, Matt, for an introduction to a really interesting-sounding game. It seems best played at the table, so I'll have to wait until my in-person group finishes our new Sundered Isles campaign, but it seems doable.
100% agree with this. There's a lot of actual plays of Carved From Brindlewood games on youtube which kind of give the impression that online play is a decent substitute, but in my experience they work much better in person if you can manage it.
I guess that's why I never got into games like these, that prompt you to do roleplaying things... All these awesome things explained here usually happen on their own in our stories. Oo
It is possible (I’ve done it!), it is just very challenging. Like… really challenging There are four things which will work against you - The lack of other Hunters to trigger the Vulnerable Move (which is really critical as it is the main way to remove Conditions) - Hunters are contending with up to 3 Threats at once. This isn’t geared as “Monster of the Week,” but rather “London is under constant siege.” It expects a cast of Hunters to split up and explore the various Threats - Answering a Question shines when it’s a bunch of people all tossing their ideas into the pot and coming up with something brilliant. You can absolutely do that on your own: but it is less satisfying - The Unscene can get really overwhelming when it’s just you by yourself. It’s a lot of narrative things you need to think about and ideally connect to the happenings in play. Can you get around all of this? Absolutely. - You can adjust the Vulnerable Move so you can trigger it with NPCs - You can change the game to a Monster of the Week format (there’s a little less urgency and horror and more pulp and it does make London feel smaller than it probably should, but that’s not a huge loss) - You could run multiple PCs (I do this in most games I play solo. One PC is really boring to me in most cases and a cast of assisting NPCs isn’t really fun either, I want a cast of people all playing by similar rules a la a CRPG). It’s a lot of work to track everything. This completely alleviates the first two points and you can almost just play the Between “as is” - You could scrap the Unscene and just keep the Night Phase snappy on your own. It’s tough and you’re missing out: but it’s not the end of the world. Of course if you’re just flowing with creativity, the Unscene isn’t a huge burden to Solo- but in my experience it was (and I’m a pretty creative dude!). You’ll also miss out on a potential XP Trigger if you cut it from the game, but again: not a horrible loss. Answering a Question is just gonna be what it is. At the end of the day, if you’ve played enough Solo Games, you’ve taken disparate information and made sense of it all to form a coherent story, so Answering a Question is just another day in the office… but it isn’t as vibrant without other Players. No real way around that. ‘Twas still a satisfying Solo experience, but definitely one I had to work at.
As the troupe races against time to track down a serial killer, it concludes as the one they trusted the most...the American, goes full 'American Werewolf in London'...
I rarely have the desire to play other TTRPGs beside D&D (yeah I know, I'm boring), and never had the desire to GM, but the way you described this game was phenomenal and so enticing, and now I want to buy it and run a game of it for friends. Edit with a question: Is this game suitable for real beginners? (Both players and keeper?)
Our group was made up of 2 veterans, 2 experienced players and 1 complete newbie. In some ways, having no preconceptions can be a benefit because sharing narrative duties is a difficult concept to understand if all you have experienced is the typical "call / response" style of, say, Dungeons and Dragons, but having someone to "hold your hand" and guide you is also helpful. I'd say if your keeper has watched some APs of PBTA-style games and understands how its intended to be played and the rest of the players are invested in the game concept, give it a go! It might just totally re-wire your approach to TTRPGs!
I agree with @sanctumsanctorum4130. Definitely watch some playthroughs and if you can pick your players carefully. Talk of skill is a feature of conversations about these games, and for good reason: you can 100% be better or worse at playing them. The good news is that there is room for that skill to develop over time as you play, but it's probably best to ensure its an open-minded group and one which understands the whole shared narrative thing.
As someone who's been playing Powered by the Apocalypse games for several years now, my observation is that newcomers to RPGs frequently pick up the PbtA shared-narrative playstyle faster and with fewer questions than people who've been playing D&D, Call of Cthulhu, or other traditional RPGs where the GM has sole narrative authority. You need to un-learn a number of trad RPG techniques to fully embrace a game like this. Complete newbies don't get tripped up by preconceived notions and/or player reflexes that don't apply.
It's certainly very different to play and run, and if you're used to games like D&D it's going to mean unlearning a lot, but I see absolutely no reason why not. Our campaign had someone in it who had never even played a ttrpg before and they took it to it just fine. Watch some APs (I would recommend The Game's Author Jason Cordova's UA-cam Channel and the Shadow Society run of The Between) and also, if you want to see if your table might enjoy this style of game and want to try a one shot, I would recommend picking up Trophy Dark and running an incursion of that. I have an AP on my channel!
Hey there. This may not be the best place to post this, but I'm not sure where else to do so and it seems more appropriate than in your other playlists. A while back you mentioned in one video that you were considering a playthrough of Captain's Log. I just want to put a vote in for that because I have picked it up and while it seems interesting in many ways, I am not sure if I am going to bother playing it. I have tried watching a few actual plays and they have all been sooo dull (I think you've spoiled me). I figure if you make it interesting, even just as a one-shot, I will be more inclined to pursue it.
Hey! Yeah it was something I was interested in, but after reading it, it slipped down my list of games I want to play. It seems fine, but there are other games I think would benefit better from the Bad Spot treatment.
Playbooks in PbtA-style games are kind of like a character class, but they're written to be far more about the character's overall story arc than a list of available powers and abilities. (Though it is that too.)
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
As a classic rpg player with a strong inclination against players shaping the narrative beyond their character's actions, your amazing descriptions, detailed review, and enthusiasm have me spellbound (as well as the clever mechanics in this game). Now, instead of thinking of this as a 'wrong way to play rpgs' I think of it as 'an exciting different kind of rpg'. I think I will always prefer more traditional kinds of rpgs but thanks for opening my mind. Glad I subscribed and you have me thinking :)
I would wholeheartedly endorse this view. I came to ttrpgs via trad games like CoC, GURPs, Warhammer and more recently games with OSR stylings (among many, many others) so hadn't touched games that formalise player narrative input until last year. Then I played Trophy Gold, Blades in the Dark, Brindlewood Bay and Public Access, the latter being Jason Cordova's latest game. Every one of 'em is great and will completely rewire how you think about ttrpgs. Trophy Gold and Blades are probably the most straightforward for folks new to story games as they bridge the gap between trad and story game mechanics. Blades in particular is a good way to go, as it has a satisfying level of rules crunch and is frankly bloody brilliant and extremely easy to play and prep for once you've got the mechanics down. I can see why its become the new default game for a lot of people. Public Access has an intensity that I suspect feels very similar to The Between, but with genre roots that I'm more attracted to.
Anyway, give this style of play a go. With the right group you won't look back.
My work here is done!
God I need to run a Blades game
You may be the first of that group I have been able to respect for that. To each their own!
Personally, I've always enjoyed ttrpgs most as a collaborative experience. The attitude taken by a lot of die-hard D&D purists, etc, has been frustrating in the past.
As with most, if not all, games: So long as everyone is having fun, you're playing it right.
@Puzzles-Pins 💯
got and read through the entire rulebook after watching this video, wow! time to convince my friends to try it out tomorrow
My work here is done.
I've been waiting for you to cover this since you mentioned it on your '10 ttrpgs we want to play' vid. Penny Dreadful was amazing and this looks like a great way to experience that world :)
I've been waiting to make this video since I started playing. Just needed to get to the end of my campaign first. Now I just want to start a brand new one all over again...
It’s a joy to experience your enthusiasm for the game. I’m struck by how many of the mechanics you mentioned are very reminiscent of the tools developed for solo RPGs. I wonder whether these types of improvisation games existed in group games before soloing discovered them or whether the solo games have fed back into group games.
That's an interesting point. I think any games that use creative prompts share a certain DNA with solo games.
Sounds amazing, totally going to check it out. Thanks for telling us about it!
Hope you enjoy it! It is wonderful!
Seeing this game get more spotlight is always such a joy.
You may like my next video...
My man! I'm currently running two campaigns of The Between; one has over 25 sessions already, and we've just started the other one. I have to admit, it's one of my top favorite games of all time :)
The only thing is, I would say it's very much a "mastery-based game" - after each session, I did a retrospective, thinking about how the game procedures interact with the fiction, how its various subsystems work, etc. I listened to Jason's AP, read paratextual advice on how to run it.
And I saw how from session to session the gameplay became more fluid, more technical, and everyone had a lot more fun. From my perspective, The Between is a complex instrument that requires a lot of skill.
I certainly agree, it’s a game that taught me an awful lot about running games. Shame I only want to run The Between now.
@@thebadspot :) :) :) How many sessions are you in? Have you played any additional seasons of TB, or only the Threats that are added to the core book?
As I say in the video, we just finished after 12 sessions and a Mastermind confrontation making it 13. Mastermind was Theodora, I ran all threats from the core book, plus The Demon of Kilburn Abbey and Spidersilk Seamstress. Hunters were American/Undeniable/Mother/Factotum, all except the Undeniable retired. Same table will go up against Admiral Flagg in 2025, with all new playbooks I think. Not sure The Undeniable has much story left, her arc was pretty much done. Even though she unscarred the masterwork, she marked 9/12 of her masks.
I'll see what is included in the new KS version. Hopefully there's some new threats.
I have listened to your video twice already, but somehow the number of sessions escaped me… Oh, me love such a nerdy-braggadocio!
@@rafaelcupiael Yeah, we played longer sessions, 4-5hrs in person. I wanted to be sure we completed the complete day/night cycle in a session. I was a patron for a while, but I tend to shift my support between creators in a cycle, so I reckon I will rejoin at some point. I really hope to run Theodora again for a completely different table before I pick up with my first group in 2025. I want to get better at running the game a little quicker. If I can get a session down to 3.5hrs I'll be thrilled.
The moments you describe sound great. It seems that some people vibe much better with narrative driven rpg like this one and Monster of the Week. I and my group seem to get down better with the crunchy, simulation rpgs like Worlds Without Number and such.
There’s a game out there for every table. What a time to be alive!
I’ve run a campaign of The Between: Ghosts of El Paso which was a fantastic experience. I’m looking forward to introducing my group to The Between and Public Access.
Ghost of El Paso looks extremely cool. I think it’s awesome it is being bundled in with the new crowdfunder.
This smells of a bomb. Monster of the Week + Brindlewood + Blades in the dark? Yes please!
It's so good. The crowdfunder is going great!
@@thebadspot is the crowdfunding for a new version or for a supplement?
@IrisDImtv A revised and expanded edition! Check out my preview: ua-cam.com/video/dwMbjZNqG94/v-deo.htmlsi=GJ1hLP2KdvjKXdhP
For sure have to pick this up.
I'm a big Blades fan and this sounds like it scratches my narrative itch.
I can’t wait for the Kickstarter to drop!
Thanks, Matt, for an introduction to a really interesting-sounding game. It seems best played at the table, so I'll have to wait until my in-person group finishes our new Sundered Isles campaign, but it seems doable.
100% agree with this. There's a lot of actual plays of Carved From Brindlewood games on youtube which kind of give the impression that online play is a decent substitute, but in my experience they work much better in person if you can manage it.
I hope you get it to the table! Thanks for watching!
In person is better. That is just basic science.
I guess that's why I never got into games like these, that prompt you to do roleplaying things... All these awesome things explained here usually happen on their own in our stories. Oo
Thanks for watching
Just downloaded and I'm going to give it a read. Thanks!!
Yes! Enjoy!
It's always a joy to hear someone discuss their passion for a game. I'm curious, though, do you think it might play well enough as a solo game?
Thank you! Sadly there’s no feasible way to play this game solo!
It is possible (I’ve done it!), it is just very challenging. Like… really challenging
There are four things which will work against you
- The lack of other Hunters to trigger the Vulnerable Move (which is really critical as it is the main way to remove Conditions)
- Hunters are contending with up to 3 Threats at once. This isn’t geared as “Monster of the Week,” but rather “London is under constant siege.” It expects a cast of Hunters to split up and explore the various Threats
- Answering a Question shines when it’s a bunch of people all tossing their ideas into the pot and coming up with something brilliant. You can absolutely do that on your own: but it is less satisfying
- The Unscene can get really overwhelming when it’s just you by yourself. It’s a lot of narrative things you need to think about and ideally connect to the happenings in play.
Can you get around all of this? Absolutely.
- You can adjust the Vulnerable Move so you can trigger it with NPCs
- You can change the game to a Monster of the Week format (there’s a little less urgency and horror and more pulp and it does make London feel smaller than it probably should, but that’s not a huge loss)
- You could run multiple PCs (I do this in most games I play solo. One PC is really boring to me in most cases and a cast of assisting NPCs isn’t really fun either, I want a cast of people all playing by similar rules a la a CRPG). It’s a lot of work to track everything. This completely alleviates the first two points and you can almost just play the Between “as is”
- You could scrap the Unscene and just keep the Night Phase snappy on your own. It’s tough and you’re missing out: but it’s not the end of the world. Of course if you’re just flowing with creativity, the Unscene isn’t a huge burden to Solo- but in my experience it was (and I’m a pretty creative dude!). You’ll also miss out on a potential XP Trigger if you cut it from the game, but again: not a horrible loss.
Answering a Question is just gonna be what it is. At the end of the day, if you’ve played enough Solo Games, you’ve taken disparate information and made sense of it all to form a coherent story, so Answering a Question is just another day in the office… but it isn’t as vibrant without other Players. No real way around that.
‘Twas still a satisfying Solo experience, but definitely one I had to work at.
@@Sully5443 Thanks so much!
Good god that’s some lengths to go to. I commend you.
Welp, this video caused me to back the game on backerkit. It's up for a bit longer.
Incredible! There’s some amazing stuff still to unlock too!
As the troupe races against time to track down a serial killer, it concludes as the one they trusted the most...the American, goes full 'American Werewolf in London'...
The American has to keep the curse in check every night, so it's something that can and does happen...
I rarely have the desire to play other TTRPGs beside D&D (yeah I know, I'm boring), and never had the desire to GM, but the way you described this game was phenomenal and so enticing, and now I want to buy it and run a game of it for friends.
Edit with a question:
Is this game suitable for real beginners? (Both players and keeper?)
Our group was made up of 2 veterans, 2 experienced players and 1 complete newbie. In some ways, having no preconceptions can be a benefit because sharing narrative duties is a difficult concept to understand if all you have experienced is the typical "call / response" style of, say, Dungeons and Dragons, but having someone to "hold your hand" and guide you is also helpful.
I'd say if your keeper has watched some APs of PBTA-style games and understands how its intended to be played and the rest of the players are invested in the game concept, give it a go! It might just totally re-wire your approach to TTRPGs!
I agree with @sanctumsanctorum4130. Definitely watch some playthroughs and if you can pick your players carefully. Talk of skill is a feature of conversations about these games, and for good reason: you can 100% be better or worse at playing them. The good news is that there is room for that skill to develop over time as you play, but it's probably best to ensure its an open-minded group and one which understands the whole shared narrative thing.
As someone who's been playing Powered by the Apocalypse games for several years now, my observation is that newcomers to RPGs frequently pick up the PbtA shared-narrative playstyle faster and with fewer questions than people who've been playing D&D, Call of Cthulhu, or other traditional RPGs where the GM has sole narrative authority. You need to un-learn a number of trad RPG techniques to fully embrace a game like this. Complete newbies don't get tripped up by preconceived notions and/or player reflexes that don't apply.
@@mikeferdinando1821 Yeah, I've seen this happen too. Smart trad ttrpg players struggle and newbs lean straight into it.
It's certainly very different to play and run, and if you're used to games like D&D it's going to mean unlearning a lot, but I see absolutely no reason why not. Our campaign had someone in it who had never even played a ttrpg before and they took it to it just fine. Watch some APs (I would recommend The Game's Author Jason Cordova's UA-cam Channel and the Shadow Society run of The Between) and also, if you want to see if your table might enjoy this style of game and want to try a one shot, I would recommend picking up Trophy Dark and running an incursion of that. I have an AP on my channel!
So...The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen meets The Boys?
That’s a decent summation!
is there a physical copy of this book available anywhere? or is it just PDF and maybe your friendly local print shops
The hard copy will be part of the upcoming kickstarter that should be posted later this summer.
I saw a physical copy at a con recently but I resisted knowing the Kickstarter was on the way.
Cannot wait for this.
Never play before, nów I have to try.
Make sure you back the crowdfunder on Backerkit for the new edition! www.backerkit.com/call_to_action/492c27e1-f2d8-4b18-8aa2-0e3d92002fbd/landing
Hey there. This may not be the best place to post this, but I'm not sure where else to do so and it seems more appropriate than in your other playlists.
A while back you mentioned in one video that you were considering a playthrough of Captain's Log. I just want to put a vote in for that because I have picked it up and while it seems interesting in many ways, I am not sure if I am going to bother playing it. I have tried watching a few actual plays and they have all been sooo dull (I think you've spoiled me). I figure if you make it interesting, even just as a one-shot, I will be more inclined to pursue it.
Hey! Yeah it was something I was interested in, but after reading it, it slipped down my list of games I want to play. It seems fine, but there are other games I think would benefit better from the Bad Spot treatment.
@@thebadspot Well, that's too bad, but thanks for responding. My search for a good Trek playthrough continues.
;)
@jcraigwilliams70 Maybe one day I’ll return to it.
Whats an "undeniable"? Is that like a "character class"? Or what?
It’s the title of one of the playbooks. I show it in the video alongside The Mother and The American
Playbooks in PbtA-style games are kind of like a character class, but they're written to be far more about the character's overall story arc than a list of available powers and abilities. (Though it is that too.)
"Reasons why" is redundant.
Thanks for this very helpful comment.