Thanks Garrett. I like the way you explain things. I was going to experiment with this feature to figure it out (some day) but now I don't have to. You did all the work. I would love to buy you a cup of coffee. Thanks
I should add all the bits I purchased from you are AWESOME. I'm getting really clean cuts with them and even though I've only been CNC'ing for three weeks I've created 20 different projects with your bits and they are holding up terrific.
@@IDCWoodcraft I just made a cheese and crackers board and it came out terrific. Using offsets I was able to do the rounderover on the 3 dip holders and the cracker holder. It worked out great just took some experimenting to get the roundover bit to hit the exact spot. Now that I know how to do it I will add that to any projects that need a roundover on the inside of the piece. I'd upload a photo but it doesn't look like this forum supports images.
Great explanations! I have done the same thing where I originally put in a large offset so that I could see which side of the line the offset would travel (positive or negative). Then I would adjust my offset accordingly with just a fraction of an inch.
DCD Lazer &CNC, Glad the video was helpful. Once you find a method that works, it's great validation to see that others are doing it too. Happy CNC'ing.
Something I'd like to request for one of your upcoming videos is a double-sided or two sided workflow. Despite taking super careful measurements, I always seem to get just a tad off when I flip the work piece. I'm thinking what I will do is use one of the probes, and re-zero off the right side when I flip the piece, so I reference from the same edge, instead of the opposite edge, but I like to hear your take on it. Hope you follow my line of thinking. Keep those videos coming! Great content and enjoy them very much!
I feel you. I've been cncing for 30 years...from large high end industrial machines, to my highly accurate home built 32 x 53 and I have never been able to flip a work piece and have it align 100% after. This isn't for a lack of trying. One of the issues, specially with wood, is the wood moves as soon as you start cutting it. Pine will shrink or grow the minute you start removing material, specially in width and depth. That is because even though it could be kiln dried, the grain will absorb or lose moisture as soon as it is exposed. I make wooden signs and many people ask for double sided. I just make two pieces, and glue them together. No matter how hard I try, they never line up once you detach your piece from the spoiler board. Closest I ever got was around .02", just enough so you can feel the difference. I do a lot of borders and this can become apparent on ones that are 1/4" on a 12 x 24 sign. If you're .02" out on a sign 24" x 36" and your border is 1/2" you won't really notice it. You also have to make sure your gantry is 100% square. .0004" off will cause variance once you flip the piece. To measure accuracy, I use a large circle. If you can get a circle +/- .0001" round, it'll solve a lot of issues.
So... if I'm understanding you correctly... the 'Pocket Allowance' setting doesn't leave stock for a cleanup pass? I'm experimenting with making some signs using a 'Pocket Toolpath' using a 1/4" endmill and I'm making my final 'fine' paths with a 1/8" downcut, but it isn't catching all the 'fur' left behind by the 1/4" upcut. I'd like to leave some stock after the 1/4" bit and let the 1/8" downcut do all the finishing. Is that possible?
@@IDCWoodcraft but will the final pass of the 1/8” downcut be automatically carried out by the generated toolpaths, or would I need to create a new tool path for the final pass? I’m not confident I know what’s going on, as the profile toolpath explicitly says "final pass" but offset allowance just seems to leave some meat on the bones. I'm a tad confused...
Hi Garrett, I've been creating pockets similar to your example with a 1/4" endmil but I'm making a second pass using a 1/4" roundover bit and it screws up everytime. The roundover is either inside so far it does nothing or completely outside the pocket. I tried all combinations cutting outside, inside and on the line. So now after watching your video I think I need to figure out how to offset the roundover cut and maybe that will give me the roundover I'm looking for.
I was led to believe that a positive offset allowance actually made the bit cut say .01 larger than the drawn line and then removed and additional. 01 down to the exact measurement that was drawn to just clean up the milled line. Please correct me if I’m wrong. Thanks Garrett!
My kinda coffee ☕ guy, strong coffee. That one was a real brain scrambler. Although, as the coffee went down, the brain got into gear ⚙️ and some of my high school 🏫 geometry (?) came through (maybe).
your very good at explaining vectric. i am trying to program in vectric some pockets into the underside of a wood slab, so i can glue it 2x2” legs to make a stool. however, i need to have the pocket floor, to have15 degree angle, so the legs angle out. any videos on how to do that ?
Eross21, sorry my friend but I don't have a video on this as of yet. I will definitely add it to my video to-do list! I recommend joining Kate and I for our UA-cam live sessions we have every Wednesday (including tonight) at 8PM EST and we should be able to walk you through it and give you some tips!
Question: For simplicity purposes of the question, If I want to make a 6" square with a final clean up pass and I need the final size to be 6". Should I offset the (outside the line) toolpath by let's say 0.0625 and then set a final clean up pass for 0.625, would doing this make my final clean up pass outside the line of my original toolpath to give me the desired size square of 6" with the clean up pass completed?
chillycharlie, To achieve a final size of 6" for your square, you can offset your toolpath by 0.0625 to leave material for the clean-up pass. The clean-up pass should then remove that excess material to bring the final dimensions to 6". Make sure to account for the tool diameter and path tolerances when setting up your toolpaths. Hope this helps clear things up brother!
@@IDCWoodcraftI did a test. Looks to me like it just runs the offset and then you have to run a secondary toolpath to do the clean up. It didn't run the offset and the clean up one right after the other like I thought it would. (I understand I could save the tool paths as 1 file). I just have to do more tests to figure it out for me.
One thing not mentioned is cutter comp. Even though you might be using a .25 EM, the tool itself may not be exactly .25 D. More prevalent when milling metals, but it's worth mentioning. Using the offset tools in vectric can assist if your inlays are not fitting due to cutter comp.
marklugo18E7, You're absolutely right! Cutter compensation is an important factor, especially for achieving those precise inlays. Using tools like the offset feature in Vectric can definitely help ensure everything fits perfectly. Thanks for pointing that out!
Hello Garrett: When you set a "do a separate last pass" it appears to me the software automatically compensates for whatever value you enter for everything but the final pass. So, as an example say I'm cutting all the way through my work piece in 4 passes, and I set a final value of .001. Three of those 4 passes are going to be .001 away from the line, and than the final pass will move right to the line, and do that final pass at full depth. This is the way I've been doing it for the last few years, so hope that's right.
I'm not sure what you mean by "default the settings"unless that was a typo and you just meant to say "use the default settings". Anyway I tried this just yesterday, and it works exactly the way I described. Only the last path is at full depth, and at the whatever value you set in "do a separate last pass" dialog box. It does not change dimensions. This can work especially well on things like plastic and aluminum, where it's hard to get a really smooth edge otherwise. I know I struggle a lot with HDPE to get a nice edge otherwise, and aluminum always shows every single step over.
Yeah, with a table saw hahahaha Seriously, how do you do a straight profile cut inside a line? Whenever I try the bit runs around the outside of the line and you can't do inside because the bit won't fit.
I've been using aspire for years now and on 3 separate cnc machines, 3 diff computers I cannot get the profile pass depth to match the pocket depth. The profile is ALWAYS deeper than the pocket. So much so that I have to manually adjust the doc of the profile to be .02 to .04 shallower than the pocket. Also does anyone else notice that Vectric is paid by bearing and stepper manufacturers to make 100000 unnecessary movements when cutting out pockets? Doesn't matter if you use vector selection order or not, the router will move back and forth across your piece 1000x more than necessary.
muskokamike127, I recommend joining Kate and I for our youtube live sessions we host every Wednesday nights at 8PM EST and we can definitely talk through the profile vs pocket toolpaths. I get what you mean about the extra machine movements, it's less than ideal and adds time to the cuts. Hopefully this is something that will be revised with them in the future!
@@IDCWoodcraft I've been harping on this as well as thousands of others in their forums for 15 yrs and nope, nothing being down. I say it adds about 50% to pocket cut times. The big thing is: they could solve it by using the same parameters as profiles: left/right up/down top/bottom etc.
![Down Bits (Down Cut) And CNC Routers [What You Didn't Know] - Garrett Fromme](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/tykj6Nn-ysM/mqdefault.jpg)
Helped understanding differences between pocket and profile as well as offset.
Graham, right on glad it helped!
Thanks Garrett. I like the way you explain things. I was going to experiment with this feature to figure it out (some day) but now I don't have to. You did all the work. I would love to buy you a cup of coffee. Thanks
Hey Oscar. There are so many things to learn in this CNC world. And thanks for the cup of coffee, for sure!
Excellent! Great job fine tuning the explanation!
Clyde, that is good news brother. Glad you found this video helpful.
Thanks Garrett the webinar is out for me this time I'm tied up during that tine slot. keep up the training viedos, they are a great help. LPR
We'll catch you on the next webinar!
I have been struggling with this for a few days. I now understand, and it makes sense. Thank you for the video.
Hi Nick. Seems I come out with the roght video at the right time for someone. This was yours.
Garrett, thanks for the clarification. Makes total sense now.
You're welcome Paul.
I should add all the bits I purchased from you are AWESOME. I'm getting really clean cuts with them and even though I've only been CNC'ing for three weeks I've created 20 different projects with your bits and they are holding up terrific.
Hi Tim. Thank you for the feedback. What are you making right now?
@@IDCWoodcraft I just made a cheese and crackers board and it came out terrific. Using offsets I was able to do the rounderover on the 3 dip holders and the cracker holder. It worked out great just took some experimenting to get the roundover bit to hit the exact spot. Now that I know how to do it I will add that to any projects that need a roundover on the inside of the piece. I'd upload a photo but it doesn't look like this forum supports images.
Great explanations! I have done the same thing where I originally put in a large offset so that I could see which side of the line the offset would travel (positive or negative). Then I would adjust my offset accordingly with just a fraction of an inch.
DCD Lazer &CNC,
Glad the video was helpful. Once you find a method that works, it's great validation to see that others are doing it too. Happy CNC'ing.
Thank you! This video came at a perfect time for me!!!!Great Job!!!!!
Grant, thanks brother! I'm glad the video found you at the perfect time my friend. Happy cutting!
Great info as usual!
Igorfun, thanks again my friend!
Something I'd like to request for one of your upcoming videos is a double-sided or two sided workflow. Despite taking super careful measurements, I always seem to get just a tad off when I flip the work piece.
I'm thinking what I will do is use one of the probes, and re-zero off the right side when I flip the piece, so I reference from the same edge, instead of the opposite edge, but I like to hear your take on it. Hope you follow my line of thinking.
Keep those videos coming! Great content and enjoy them very much!
Good news for you. That is on the list and it's coming up. It'll be another month and a half to two months before it gets done but it is coming
I feel you. I've been cncing for 30 years...from large high end industrial machines, to my highly accurate home built 32 x 53 and I have never been able to flip a work piece and have it align 100% after.
This isn't for a lack of trying. One of the issues, specially with wood, is the wood moves as soon as you start cutting it. Pine will shrink or grow the minute you start removing material, specially in width and depth. That is because even though it could be kiln dried, the grain will absorb or lose moisture as soon as it is exposed.
I make wooden signs and many people ask for double sided. I just make two pieces, and glue them together. No matter how hard I try, they never line up once you detach your piece from the spoiler board. Closest I ever got was around .02", just enough so you can feel the difference. I do a lot of borders and this can become apparent on ones that are 1/4" on a 12 x 24 sign. If you're .02" out on a sign 24" x 36" and your border is 1/2" you won't really notice it.
You also have to make sure your gantry is 100% square. .0004" off will cause variance once you flip the piece.
To measure accuracy, I use a large circle. If you can get a circle +/- .0001" round, it'll solve a lot of issues.
So... if I'm understanding you correctly... the 'Pocket Allowance' setting doesn't leave stock for a cleanup pass?
I'm experimenting with making some signs using a 'Pocket Toolpath' using a 1/4" endmill and I'm making my final 'fine' paths with a 1/8" downcut, but it isn't catching all the 'fur' left behind by the 1/4" upcut. I'd like to leave some stock after the 1/4" bit and let the 1/8" downcut do all the finishing.
Is that possible?
It does leave stock for a clean up.
@@IDCWoodcraft but will the final pass of the 1/8” downcut be automatically carried out by the generated toolpaths, or would I need to create a new tool path for the final pass? I’m not confident I know what’s going on, as the profile toolpath explicitly says "final pass" but offset allowance just seems to leave some meat on the bones.
I'm a tad confused...
Great great great teacher
ExodusJohnson, thanks brother! I appreciate that.
Hi Garrett, I've been creating pockets similar to your example with a 1/4" endmil but I'm making a second pass using a 1/4" roundover bit and it screws up everytime. The roundover is either inside so far it does nothing or completely outside the pocket. I tried all combinations cutting outside, inside and on the line. So now after watching your video I think I need to figure out how to offset the roundover cut and maybe that will give me the roundover I'm looking for.
Understanding how the bit is performing is important. From there, you'll be able to offset it appropriately
Thanks for the info!
Criscodesigns, you are so welcome my friend.
I was led to believe that a positive offset allowance actually made the bit cut say .01 larger than the drawn line and then removed and additional. 01 down to the exact measurement that was drawn to just clean up the milled line. Please correct me if I’m wrong. Thanks Garrett!
Offset is technically making the big bigger. It will not come back to clean up exact unless you tell it to.
My kinda coffee ☕ guy, strong coffee.
That one was a real brain scrambler. Although, as the coffee went down, the brain got into gear ⚙️ and some of my high school 🏫 geometry (?) came through (maybe).
Damn...I'm trying to burn out that one brain cell you got.
your very good at explaining vectric. i am trying to program in vectric some pockets into the underside of a wood slab, so i can glue it 2x2” legs to make a stool. however, i need to have the pocket floor, to have15 degree angle, so the legs angle out. any videos on how to do that ?
Eross21, sorry my friend but I don't have a video on this as of yet. I will definitely add it to my video to-do list! I recommend joining Kate and I for our UA-cam live sessions we have every Wednesday (including tonight) at 8PM EST and we should be able to walk you through it and give you some tips!
@@IDCWoodcraft very cool. i will do that
Question: For simplicity purposes of the question, If I want to make a 6" square with a final clean up pass and I need the final size to be 6".
Should I offset the (outside the line) toolpath by let's say 0.0625 and then set a final clean up pass for 0.625, would doing this make my final clean up pass outside the line of my original toolpath to give me the desired size square of 6" with the clean up pass completed?
chillycharlie, To achieve a final size of 6" for your square, you can offset your toolpath by 0.0625 to leave material for the clean-up pass. The clean-up pass should then remove that excess material to bring the final dimensions to 6". Make sure to account for the tool diameter and path tolerances when setting up your toolpaths. Hope this helps clear things up brother!
@@IDCWoodcraftI did a test. Looks to me like it just runs the offset and then you have to run a secondary toolpath to do the clean up. It didn't run the offset and the clean up one right after the other like I thought it would. (I understand I could save the tool paths as 1 file). I just have to do more tests to figure it out for me.
Kinda like offsets on a CNC lathe, to make minor changes to the cut. Yes?
Hey Oz. Yes, exactly
One thing not mentioned is cutter comp. Even though you might be using a .25 EM, the tool itself may not be exactly .25 D. More prevalent when milling metals, but it's worth mentioning. Using the offset tools in vectric can assist if your inlays are not fitting due to cutter comp.
marklugo18E7, You're absolutely right! Cutter compensation is an important factor, especially for achieving those precise inlays. Using tools like the offset feature in Vectric can definitely help ensure everything fits perfectly. Thanks for pointing that out!
"6 inch by 6 inch rectangle" made me laugh.
(Psst.....square)
Yeah I kept catching myself after I said it. I was smiling in the background.
Hello Garrett:
When you set a "do a separate last pass" it appears to me the software automatically compensates for whatever value you enter for everything but the final pass.
So, as an example say I'm cutting all the way through my work piece in 4 passes, and I set a final value of .001. Three of those 4 passes are going to be .001 away from the line, and than the final pass will move right to the line, and do that final pass at full depth.
This is the way I've been doing it for the last few years, so hope that's right.
Hi Troy. Yes, as long as you default the settings for that method in your toolpath
I'm not sure what you mean by "default the settings"unless that was a typo and you just meant to say "use the default settings". Anyway I tried this just yesterday, and it works exactly the way I described. Only the last path is at full depth, and at the whatever value you set in "do a separate last pass" dialog box. It does not change dimensions. This can work especially well on things like plastic and aluminum, where it's hard to get a really smooth edge otherwise. I know I struggle a lot with HDPE to get a nice edge otherwise, and aluminum always shows every single step over.
Nice tutorial! Actually you CAN do a straight line profile cut from start to an end, whether your cutting inside, outside, or on the line.
Hey buckeye. Yeah, I was going to talk about that but I only wanted to cover the offset feature.
Yeah, with a table saw hahahaha
Seriously, how do you do a straight profile cut inside a line? Whenever I try the bit runs around the outside of the line and you can't do inside because the bit won't fit.
Thanx
Your Welcome Ali.
thank you can you show sharp corners
Andrew, try to offset the vector itself instead of giving it an offset allowance in the toolpath. You can get sharp corners that way.
I've been using aspire for years now and on 3 separate cnc machines, 3 diff computers I cannot get the profile pass depth to match the pocket depth. The profile is ALWAYS deeper than the pocket. So much so that I have to manually adjust the doc of the profile to be .02 to .04 shallower than the pocket.
Also does anyone else notice that Vectric is paid by bearing and stepper manufacturers to make 100000 unnecessary movements when cutting out pockets? Doesn't matter if you use vector selection order or not, the router will move back and forth across your piece 1000x more than necessary.
muskokamike127, I recommend joining Kate and I for our youtube live sessions we host every Wednesday nights at 8PM EST and we can definitely talk through the profile vs pocket toolpaths. I get what you mean about the extra machine movements, it's less than ideal and adds time to the cuts. Hopefully this is something that will be revised with them in the future!
@@IDCWoodcraft I've been harping on this as well as thousands of others in their forums for 15 yrs and nope, nothing being down.
I say it adds about 50% to pocket cut times.
The big thing is: they could solve it by using the same parameters as profiles: left/right up/down top/bottom etc.