Narcissist-Borderline (
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- Опубліковано 7 лис 2020
- Starts 40:07 Take my Shadow - Give Me Love
There may be some kind of projection of the feminine onto the partner and its later introjection. At the same time, the other partner is similarly projecting the masculine and then introjecting it. Homo-erotic homosexuality is best described as a projective-introjective symbiotic swap of anima and animus.
The narcissist and his borderline partner swap their projected Shadows, seeking to legitimize them and to experience these forbidden aspects of themselves by merging and fusing with the intimate partner. This dynamic involves porous personal boundaries and the mourning of a bad, dead object.
The narcissist’s experience of his life is best described by resorting to a conveyance metaphor: movie, car, train, bus, boat. He suffers from object inconstancy: both internal and external. This leads to ego incongruency (internal) and discrepancy (external). He is in flux among self states. Finally, he resorts to hyperrealism or hyperreflexion.
Why don't I change?
1. Defiance, reactance, rebelliousness, non-conformity ("no one will tell me what to do"); 2. Grandiosity ("my way or the highway", fuck off factor); 3. Too late to change, my life is over ("at his age, 60, it is a problem"); 4. I like who I am (ego syntony): carefree, playful, noncommittal, adventurous, childlike, true to myself, proud; 5. I feel liberated, unshackled, with an infinite horizon of unlimited options, possibilities, opportunities and potentials, unbridled; 6. I preempt anticipated failures and thus regain ostensible control (I don't have a following or clients because I reject everyone and am a unflinching truthteller, women cheat on me and abandon me because I abuse them first); 7. Indolent, bored, slacker: I hoard and mummify - devices, books, videos, women - but can't be bothered to make use of or maintain them (so, my objects rot and my women flee).
Find and Buy MOST of my BOOKS and eBOOKS in my Amazon Store:
www.amazon.com/stores/page/60...
Wow, I must admit that I am thrilled to receive a direct, detailed response to my comments in your videos. Thank you for your time, Prof. Vaknin! I took early retirement from my clinical work a few years ago and it is a pleasure to continue to consider these issues through your UA-cam channel. Wishing you all the very best, Marie Carrière-Ljungqvist (good job on my name!).
Feel somethings missing. No intimacy, always felt like he was not turned on by me. I was merely a body could be a doll. Very mechanical, like a porn show with no emotion, no humanity, no connection
Holy shit. My mind is completely blown. This explains everything.
Sometimes he'd walk right past me and expect me to follow him. Like live in his shadow and just be a worshipper of him like he's some kind of prize. I AM THE PRIZE.
You expect him to follow you otherwise?
lol you’re the prize? Why? Why are you the prize? What kind of narcissistic self aggrandising statement is that “he’s not the prize, I AM THE PRIZE” - ridiculous 😂
You are ABSOLUTELY BRILLIANT in your descriptions from beginning to end! Thank you for the CRYSTAL CLARITY that you bring to the table on this topic!
I have spent 22 years in a marriage with a little girl. He and I have had intercourse 15 times in our 22 years and not in the last 17 years. I left twice and have found that the one time I got into another intimate relationship with another man, he too was unable to love. My husband cooks, washes clothes and keeps the house. He refuses to get a real job, making $11 an hour at Walmart, part-time. He had a good job 5 years ago, but when he thought I was leaving again, he quit and said, "If you leave, you will work to take care of me." I feel as if I am doing time in prison. Thanks for sharing these videos, maybe one day soon, I will have the strength to get free. I am not in love with him, he is like a little brother/sister...
Please live your life for you! You deserve better!!!
Please get out of this! You deserve love and happiness and it's out there.
After we were 'intimate' he would say..."get off me! " I knew something was off from the beginning. I have borderline personality disorder and this has destroyed me.
Its like you were a fly on my wall. He would say exactly the same thing, and i would be left feeling so gross. I also feel destroyed, and feel my borderline traits taking over. I feel as if im almost becoming psychopathic.
Borderlines are far more destructive and you are using him as a way to victimize yourself. Men after sex get the male version of the "ick" and it takes Time to regulate. Men and women aren't the same.
Just wanted to say thank you @Sam Vaknin for sharing your work with the public. I identified with the post of the first insignificant other. I am grateful I am now free of my 6 month r/ship with an NPD/covert BPD, as I couldn't take it any longer, and am now devoting more time to working on healing my subconscious mind&reprogramming my behaviours. Your videos have been a comfort to me during this time.
You have perfectly described my 14 year marriage many years ago, before narcissism was an every day word...
But as much sex as we had, it was rarely fulfilling...I was always just being used just as you have described.
Thank you for all your insight over the years!
@@eagleeye2300 Yes, that's a big part of the damage....but then on the other hand you realize that since that is true, you can finally move on and be yourself! (Its not personal...)
My daughter also has had to realize this about her dad...
I too walked 15 years with a narcissist... it will do a number on you mentally and emotionally. I finally wised up and divorced him. Fast forward 20 years my struggle now is that my oldest son is just like his father and its heartbreaking... From the outside looking in his life is so completely empty... And he doesn't see it it's just a game that he appears to be being playing... Seemingly unaware of what hes doing to himself and the people around him... My heart is sad for him but after living Through the 15 years with his father I know there's nothing I can do for my son but pray for him... God-bless each and every one of you who have experienced anything like this ... I've been there I don't wish this on anyone...
Paulabella
💥🎯
The realization that your individuality is not recognized
Acknowledged or appreciated
I especially like how you explain complicated things with such ease and clarity. I watched many of your videos and every one of them is exceptional. Thank you for you work.
WOW! What a great analysis! 💙🙏
Thank you so much for your incredible contribution to increasing knowledge in our universe. I feel compassion for you, knowing that you were hurt as a child. But your genius is your contribution; you are incredibly worthy.
Your take on the narcissist’s sexuality is pretty spot on to my past partner. it made me relieved and angry at the same time
Wow...... I can't believe how much this makes sense
Your videos have helped put sense and logic into place when I get weak and start missing my ex narcissist boyfriend. I start to forget all of the abuse and physical/ mental malaise that the relationship caused. I forget that it was, in reality, an emotional addiction and I would go back for a fix and always re-emerge more damaged than before. Just wracking up trauma over the last few years.
Watching your videos doesn't make anything hurt less or make me feel less foolish for spending so much time with that person, but something much greater instead...the ability to be aware of what was really happening(which a part of me knew, but refused to acknowledge) and the unwillingness to let it continue. I thank you so very much for this knowledge and brutal honesty and appreciate it beyond words.
I hear you. I felt every word you wrote here because I've been there and I am there too.
@Kylie Smith you will get over the hump one day💓I was in limbo 3 1/2 years with that ex and spent a lot of time self-isolating after, but finally met someone new. More importantly though, I have worked hard to set stronger boundaries with others and can get through the day without beating myself up for that soul-crushing narcissistic relationship. I wish you the best on your journey💓
@alice hello, I just saw this today! Yes, I am recovering and doing much better now. There was a lot of time spent feeling like I would never get over my ex and never be happy again, and being so sad I would crawl back...but not anymore. I would rather jump into a live volcano than be with that man ever again. I hope you are hanging in there!
Dali of Psychoanalysis!💎
Smartest person in the room, everyday.
A narcissist can choose to do unhealthy or healthy things for others. They can choose. If we define something as bad then it will believe that they are and then act like it. A narcissist is a human being with completely different skill sets and senses. They can still think about the health of others or not.
@@Dtella55 ok
@@torriepenney936 wtf
3:52 "No woman wants to be turned into her partner's mother."
I was actually taken aback one time by a girl who, on the first date, laid out her desire to mother me in this way if we became a couple.
That was her upfront, super clear/transparent agenda from the start.
And she acknowledged I was very similar in many ways to her narcissistic ex. She wanted me to fill in that void he left, as a stand-in, and was HOPING I had outstanding mother wounds she could heal.
I didn't end up getting into anything serious with her, but I mention it just to point out it really IS a thing, apparently.
@@di3486 In another recent video, Sam was talking about covert borderline men, & mentioned they seduce women by presenting themselves as in need of mothering; it appeals to the woman's ego, I guess.
It might be a more common thing than we realize--but I agree, still, that the majority of women would resent that in the end.
@@elsapadilla2897 Funnily enough, though-I haven't told her this, but there are times I think of her & regressively dissociate back to kind of my inner child mindset.
I noticed it one day, & came to the sudden realization I was DEFINITELY not in my usual mindset, because no matter how hard I tried, I couldn't think of her in a sexual light; she seemed like a mother figure I wanted to be held by in that moment.
I knew it would pass, but it was fascinating to take note of while I was in that mental state.
@@elsapadilla2897 Yep. :)
@@elsapadilla2897 Thank you. I appreciate your insights & concerns. :)
@@Dtella55 I don't think so; at least not to a pathological/malignant degree.
I do share some of their dissociation issues & object permanence misconceptions...
But I am pretty emotionally stable+literate, enjoy a wide range of positive emotion, & have the healthy, warm sort of empathy a normal person has; in fact, I'm a HSP, but well-regulated, & see it as a positive endowment.
I do have grandiose tendencies, but I'm pretty self-contained, & don't need outside validation. (And Sam said that's something a Cover Borderline would say-but I don't match a lot of his other criteria for them.)
My narc ex made me feel like I was just one of her sex toys. I was just there to please her. She literally did nothing other than just please herself.
That was amazing
Thank you
This should be part of basic life education. This is helping me understand myself and my partners and love interests. This explains why sometimes I feel like I understand exactly how grandiose mind works, explains why my partner is frustrating with “copying my words” sometimes, when he’s actually being insecure and self-defeating in that moment because he is mirroring me. That’s why I present with narcissistic patterns while also crying during sweet/sad moments in movies and at least feeling like I have compassion.
I also like that it’s not just PC answer like “who’s to say”, “don’t pathologise” when I’m just trying to learn , but an answer that actually dives deeper into the mechanics of how people with these conditions interact. This knowledge has allowed me to make more sense of the chaos and do some reality testing - predict an expected behavior and then see if it happens. Without that knowledge I would just subconsciously find another emotionally ab… difficult partner. And I would rather clear that inter-generational blind spot and get back to my enlightenment. Having experienced the feeling - I want to go back to it eventually.
Finally, I really like the nuanced understanding about what is a good fit for a specific person, rather than a blanket “find a healthy person even if they feel stale”. Diversity is good. And knowledge helps us grow. To borrow idea from Freud, I think my unconscious behaviors, like promiscuity - were a destiny because I did not know myself. Knowing dyself better, as ancient Greeks knew, helps move forward faster. Explains why, to everyone’s surprise, my husband would be so forgiving to my transgressions, saying “You’re right. I am a monster who pushed you to do those things”.
In my unique case there are also elements of polygamy and polyamory that I insisted upon after the mortification. But I think poly stuff helped him retroactively turn it into narcissistic injury instead by separating “love/meaningful sex” from appeasing my interests of being able to occasionally express sexual attraction with friend couples knowing it doesn’t threaten any of the actual relationships of the 4 people involved. I moved us away from original policy of 1 night stands because we’ve been meeting some “selfish lovers” or people who need alcohol. But I guess switching to developing close friendships is closer to polyamory than swinging, so it makes sense why my partner has been so preemptively jealous and sulking. I solved one problem, but created another. But I feel that it is important for my sexuality to explore it in different ways, not just my partner making love to himself. If he expects me to accept him and his unsatisfying sex, why shouldn’t I expect him to accept the inconvenience of me needing to find what he can’t give (at least for now) elsewhere? So I’m taking a break from poly stuff until I get a bit more clarity… It also let’s me know what to stay away from not to encourage any cluster B’s to cycle into their psychopathic shadows that enjoy inflicting pain. Knowing that people do want to be challenged instead of me being the “perfect snapshot” for them is also helpful in having an ‘inner north’ and being brave to challenge them. Makes sense why he needs to be “babied” and seamlessly jumps into dismissiveness and grandiosity. Explains why people look up to us as a charismatic couple… Explains why he used to be so superior at convincing why I don’t have the right to my feelings for the first 8 years of our relationship as I ate it up, thinking of him as my mentor.
I like ‘playing’ with the DSM manual and collecting data points about myself and others. So when I got a match for one of cluster B diagnoses - it felt like a final judgement that life will never be great. Understanding what it actually means, and there are even some silver linings - helps normalize it and continue with the process of my retroactively re-parenting, or better say raising myself from scratch. Some of the intense self-administered “treatments” I invented for myself and others, however, also make it a bit harder to place which cycle I’m in with the people in my life…
Appreciate how this is engaging the front of my brain and intellectual curiosity instead of the childish ‘not fair’ parts :)
Knowledge gave me self-determination back. Thank you for contributing to my emotional education.
Over sharing is obviously proof I have weak boundaries. But I am self-aware now. And there are a bunch of tools online on finding/communicating/enforcing/etc. your boundaries, so I’ll be more “bounded” at some point. Journaling and CBT and DBT and IFS and meditation and gratitude and self-reliance are great too.
Great video as usual. Can You please provide us a video analyzing the Emotionally Detached personality? Causes and treatments if possible. Thanks a million.
Search my vids on flat attachment.
Wow....impressive, Sam. D
Good stuff.
Very good.
There are many Forms of Love. Usually a Woman Looks Out Forum a man (neither father Nor child), but can still Love the Person AS such and gets Her needs Met somewhere Else. But even that is Not possible and going to Last because the narcissist can't Bond, can't relish the Love He gets and bei Happy about it. He will destroy every commitment offered towards him and Knows this fact from the very beginning when WE are still whishing and hoping for a Future. And that's really sad because both Parties are victims in that dreadful circle
I love my narcissist. I give him what he wants, or doesn't want, and he takes care of me.
Until he makes the final discard. They always do
@@tevazile4524 "Discard"... is that the same thing as "ghosting"?
@@cloudsephiroth1222 Yes my narcissist ghosted me last time to and it devastated me. We just started talking again after years of separation and it ended in drama again. They intentionally don't give closure I think.
Great! Groots ❤❤
„ the Hall of Mirrors „ another book title material
The first comment resonates with my situation to where it's almost identical. I was the one to drive and by dinner. Decide where to go when going out. But that's just a small part. He is autoerotic and sadistic...unbelievable. I also started to feel like his mother most of the time. I still care for him just like the person statement in her comment. But I am also hurt. I am still confused but totally see this as so true and accurate.
ילדים וילדות טובים וטובות!
Yeladim Ve-Yeladot, Tovim Ve Tovot = Boys and girls, Good and bads.
Thank you for the translation. It does help, although one can interpret what prof Vaknin is saying in other languages. Very interesting. Thank you
I have ben in two relationships with what i think was bpd/npd mix. I consider myself as a empath i dont want anyone harm etc. Its so interesting to listen to Sam when he explains in such a deep way how they feel inside and why they act like they do. I wish there was a easy way for them to realise there is a healthier way to live.
I’m a codependent and have been celibate since last ten years after removing myself from a narcissist . Can you explain this ?
@Sam Vaknin. Can a man initially present as a grandiose narcissist and then due to insecurity&fear of engulfment take on more sabotaging traits&withdrawal&express fears&vulnerabilities(sob stories)?
Narcissists can switch from overt-classic to covert-passive-aggressive and back.
I can relate
I'm not sure why but I attract borderline/cluster b women like a supermassive black hole. Since I am obsessed with mental and physical pathologies they eventually spill all of their personal DSM-V classifications to me. After a few awkward conversations with them they basically ask to have casual sex with me. It always feels so forced, empty and repugnant. It feels like my body is physically rejecting them and making me sick. I used to try and help/fix these girls but gave up on it. I'm likely (or likely not ,lol) a mild ADD but have to play the role of narcissist-borderline during my interactions with them because I do not share their fantasy. The short relationship that I do have with them makes me feel like I am literally drowning. I always feel very guilty after the friendship/relationship ends and it's very hard for me to let go of that guilt.
@@jessoftherocks Perhaps...! but in my world somebody calling me "codependent" has evolved into nothing more than people saying "You set your expectations WAY too high, especially from people". I buy the latter explanation than the former. [shrug]
To be borderline is real black hole in soul
The narcissist told me plain out when he used to hoover me in our first few years "But you're a part of me what don't you understand .... I thought it was because he gave me a child smh 🤦🏻♀️
Could sexual sadism coexist with autoerotica? Both wanting to act out sadism and also masturbating compulsively?
Its the hardest when they whisper “ I love you” when your having sex. To further confuse. I used to cry after sex with him. I never knew why
Same here
@@amie8286 wow same... multiple times... the worst empty feeling I couldn’t even begin to describe as I didn’t know what was happening at the time... my soul always knew though.. makes so much sense now
Time for another sip of water! 😂
This is what I went through for 12 years... I ended up cheating on him because of this with someone who is spiritual just like me... Wish I knew this before
Thank you prof. Vaknin for your video. I would like to ask you, if the sex life as you described is aplicable to bordelines, too? My partner decribed our sex life exactly the same - as heavenly perfect, but mechanical, voracious, soulless and he stated that he feels like I am not noticing him, he s not even there, and I have sex with myself, aroused by myself. He told me, he feels as a tool, sex toy and like I am masturbating with him, which is pretty accurate to your description of sex with narcissist.
In addition, I found myself in many of your videos. I am diagnosed with borderline PD by team of professionals after being impatient for 5 months in psychiatric hospital. The original reason of hospitalization was attempted killing of partner because of jealousy (non-existent infidelity, of course).
Is it possible/usual that borderline could be misdiagnosed narcissist?
Many Borderlines have such pronounced grandiose defenses that they could easily be diagnosed as narcissists. Additionally, BPD and NPD are often comorbid.
@7:10 - The 3 possbilities of sex for healthy persons, sexual sadists, and narcs
If narcissist can live long time without sex, do you mean also without masturbation?
Thank you
omg you have 100% right bt sex,
if you dont get the signals before sex, then you will get the signals while sex, by then you are aware that it is too late
Can borderline find true love and not this distorted sense and comprehension of love. It’s really sickening. I am distraught that I have been dis-functioning and have so much malware in my database.
I am curious what actions he takes to "project his femininity onto the woman and then take it away" like, what does that look like? How does he do that? Do you have examples?
Does hypnotherapy work on narcissist?
No. It is a scam.
Thank you sir
My god you are so right. My narc is same sex as me male, but he's a complete nightmare for me. But. I can never leave him. He looks at porn on his phone when we're having sex together. So he's definitely not with me when doing this. 😔
Sorry ...
So sad
How does this affect non-binary people?
Like they would project both genders? Or simply in this sense would be more masculine or feminine ( not meaning gender)?
These are not gender-specific constructs.
I would GUESS that, perhaps, just like with Jung’s anima/animus, we all possess masculine and feminine sides but we identify with one more strongly, it’s almost never evenly balanced. I’d assume non-binary people are just as confused as the rest of us, and I’d also think that they’d have possibly fallen into a more dominant or receptive role in the relationship and therefore project the other half, the side they identify with less. Again, this is an absolute guess.
What can i say? Thats a man i would like to spend some time talking with. Maybe i launch a channel just for that lol.