I believe the retirement crisis will get even worse. Many struggle to save due to low wages, rising prices, and exorbitant rents. With homeownership becoming unattainable for middle-class Americans, they may not have a home to rely on for retirement either.
Got it! Buying stocks during a recession when prices are down could be a good move. You might get them at a lower price and sell later when they go up. Just do your homework and be aware of the risks before diving in!
Yea agree. I think this is going to hurt Thailand. Maybe in a year or two they except tourist visas at least from residency. If I can't get a driver's license why am I getting taxed.
Me too. I retire in March and already have my days mapped out. Laos, Vietnam, Cambodia, Philippines, Bali and Malaysia will get month a piece of my money.
Yes. Me 6 weeks in my South Pacific island, 1 week Japan on the way, 8 weeks Bangkok including a short visa run. 2 weeks other countries like NZ and US Rinse and repeat... I bring cash that I change at superrich at 0.3/0.5% fees, including some USD and JPY ...
Sounds great but how much are you going to be paying for airfares Visas all that needs to added in to your costs agaist the tax. It's a hard one to work out I'm sure I'm in the clear as I'm on a Penison from Australia and we have a Treaty with Thailand on Double Tax but I'm going to have to look right into it
@@DeusExMachina50 CORRUPTION IS TIME IMMORTAL BUT THE AMERICANS HAVE REFINED IT INTO A FINE ART MASTERPIECE EVERYTHING IN AMERICA IS CORRUPT OR CORRUPTED FROM THE PRESIDENTCY TO THE TAXI DRIVER AND EVERYTHING IN-BETWEEN PERFECT EXAMPLE THE ELECTION OF TRUMP TO THE OVAL OFFICE AND HE NEVER EVEN HAD THE MAJORITY OF AMERICAN'S SUPPORTING HIM AND HE'S A PROVEN CROOK RAPIST. DRAFT DODGER TAX AVOIDER AND THIS IS A PATRIOTIC AMERICAN REALLY GOOD SET OF VALUES AND MORALS FOR A NATIONAL LEADER WITH HIS FINGER ON THE RED BUTTON WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU YANKS THINKING
Thai Gov taking a big risk in losing many expats who earn income / and pensions earning won't like this at all. If you combine the Poor Air Quality and other rising issues, could be the straw that broke the tourists' back. Vietnam has recently instituted a similar tax on money coming into Viet, but they call it a "Global Tax", goes from 15% to 45%, cheewawa. Philippines starting to look better again. Thai gov seems desperate for revenues, but in doing what they're planning, could put a real damper on tourism and real estate. Also I believe they want to keep those "tax credits" murky so they offer the gov flexibility and ability to interpret in the gov's favor. For those of us considering retiring in Thailand, starting to look murky and doubtful.
I learn Thailand is Nr. 18 in the Ranking en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_medal_count_at_International_Mathematical_Olympiad Wherevi come from it is only 53 Ok
Every dollar brought in to Thailand is spent in Thailand. All the hotels, bars, street vendors are going to suffer from this. I myself am going to have to cut back on all my spending. It’s a very bad money grab that’s going to come back to bite them.
"Every dollar brought in to Thailand is spent in Thailand. " That may be true for tourists but they aren't even affected by these changes. Foreign retirees alone have to keep something 800k thai baht in their bank accounts forever that they can't touch. After one friend decided to move to Philippines he took that whole 800k out and moved. If you are retiree or expat and spend every single dollar in Thailand you probably have a lot in common with your own government. Spending like their is no tomorrow.
@jinparksoul I think Ron was (or could accurately have been) referring to expat retirees. Lots don’t bring in much beyond monthly spending money EXCEPT the 800k baht holding tax (400k for spousal) visa requirement. Many/ most don’t trust thai banks with their life savings or investment portfolios. So see, I think what Ron and yourself are saying amounts to the same thing. He’s not necessarily saying, as you assume, expats to Thailand spend like sailors on shore leave! For many expats their money is back home or elsewhere, like maybe Singapore where you can trust it’s still yours, w/d at will, etc. Thus, apart from the visas required 400k/800k, they spend what they bring in, likely monthly. How much more than that 800kbt did that friend have within Thailand and take with him from Thailand to the Philippines? I’ll bet not much beyond what he might have had in assets, like condo, car, scooter, and sold to cash prior to his exit. Maybe same-same
@@DM-qg4ysSaying "every dollar" with that understanding is like saying you can have any flavor of ice cream you desire as long as its chocolate. Its decimates the meaning of "every dollar brought in" to the degree that it makes it sound like a joke.
It's not unreasonable for Thailand to tax global income (most countries do), however, their tax rates are not competitive at all. If it were a flat 15% I'd go for it. But they basically have commie-style progressive taxation like much of the Western world.
@@DM-qg4ys Retirees spend what they have where they live. Just the usual government greed and strong arming of the people. We have global tyranny because we have global government behind the curtain, and the plan is for the tyranny to ramp up beyond recognition the next couple years.
180 day rule is quasi universal. No surprise there. I think the issue is there should be distinction between income and savings. People living off savings should not be taxed on transfers.
In just a decade or so they won't have retirees anymore. ASEAN market is growing way faster together with China in the coming years, they are protectionists, and nationalists and don't want you there anyway. So it will be their natural Choice, wait and see.
The critical thing you forgot for the interview is a crystal ball to gaze into. The attempt to close a loophole will cause Thailand to lose billions of baht.
This is a real bummer. I'm an American eligible for the LTR work from Thailand visa and was looking forward to applying. Based on his interpertation, I wouldn't be exempt and be taxed by both the USA and Thailand. That's an automatic no for me.
IRS has Foreign earned income exclusion FEIE 0% tax up to 120k. you dont pay double tax as long as you file in home country. run it through a llc or trust and medicare/ SS is also 0%
@@user-dy2qq5wh4b People say this but $16,000/yr in social security/medicare tax you get hit with is not "nothing" to most of us. Yes I'm living overseas and now get out of FEDERAL TAX mostly, but that was only 50% of my tax bill to begin with.
They are just opportunists, they grab money if they have a chance without thinking too much about the long term consequences like how it would impact the real estate market, how it would impact the local business that serves expats etc.
I have in the last 3-4 days spoken to various Thai lawyers Tax Advisors and Accountants all reputable in Bkk. I have sold a UK.property (No taxes were paid as non were due) I shall bring over 4-5Mil Bt (£100k) to buy a rental property here for income to top up my pension. ALL advised that I will be liable for Thai tax at approx 25%. Purchase cancelled !!
@@Rodderz1 Spot on mate 100%. Also Thai real estate doesn't have great capital appreciation, very difficult to re- sell and poor construction quality means 15-20 year lifespan. This was just as a small house to rent out, until our daughter finishes Uni then for her to live in. CANCELLED!!
I will retire next year and planned to do so in Thailand. With that new tax I will definitely search for a different place. I think that tax is a good example for scare off retirees
I have to believe this is going to affect the real estate market. If you buy a condo, build a house or even buy a car you are going to have to transfer a bunch of extra cash. Getting taxed on that could be a significant expense.
I considered buying a condo in thailand I just won't bother now. I bet there's thousands of other people just like me, Who can't be bothered with the red type all the hassle.
The most important thing I almost never see in these youtube and web forum discussions is how, if you want to be compliance, the resources and exact steps a foreigner should take to do so. I know someone that tried to get a tax id and was turned away because they didn't have a work permit and the office didn't know how to handle or process the request in that case.
spot on comment. there is just about zero actual info out there,- for example at immigration office where anyhow would need to report every 90 days-, giving foreigners the steps to take to comply.
His comment about Wise makes no sense. If Wise transfers money into Thai bank account, why will it be not be considered transfer? I see only a few ways to go around this... 1) Get LTR Visa 2) Use Bank ATM from US Bank and withdraw cash without transferring to Thai Bank 3) Stay less than 180 days in Thailand.
Say you want to bring in 1000 baht from the US and there is someone else in Thailand who wants to send 1000 baht to US. Wise matches you so the other guy sends 1000 baht to you in thailand and you give him 1000 baht in US. So no international transfer happens just 2 local transfers.
It makes a bit of sense in that Wise has bank accounts in Thailand and sums are transferred from their local bank account to yours, so it's not seen as incoming international transfer but rather a domestic transfer.
@@nicholasuloth6530wow.. didn’t know that’s how wise worked?? I thought you deposit money into your wise account from US bank and wise makes the transfer to the Thai bank.. I’ll look into it. Thanks
only makes sense if youre spending from a wise CARD or a wirex revolut etc. So the foreign banking institution makes the conversion when you spend Thai baht directly from your balance of pounds dollars etc so technically its not money that has been transfered into Thailand though a bank account, financial institution
-Its very simple you use your wise debit card in an ATM .Do not transfer it into your Thai bank account or the powers that be will tax it as its all recorded at the bank .Their are international laws of privacy , so the transaction of your wise card at an ATM cannot be recognised , banks are not allowed also to give any information regarding the transaction of a ATM card transaction by the user . they will not give information of who you are , where you come from and how much you've withdrawn ,all transactions are encrypted and secure and so every time you withdraw your cash from the ATM you are anonymous .
This really sucks. Based on what I read, even though my retirement is not taxable here in America, I would be taxed at 25% if I move there full time. After 2 1/2 years preparing to move there, I’m now looking at other options.
No problem for me less than 180 days is fine, split it with back home or other countries, too risky these days to "Sell the farm and move to x cheap country".
but IF not have homecountry anythink no home, no work ,no life, and need stay thailand because thailand have thai wife, childrens,car,house,all not easy go out of thailand anythink.
OK... So I might be taxed. I'm 100% positive that if I walked into the tax man's office in Bangkok and asked them for the right forms because I want to pay my taxes that they wouldn't know. Will my Thai savings account automatically get taxes? Or will they send me a form? Is immigration informing the tax man of my address? The whole thing is absurd and not viable. This will implode.
I think they will do it very simply: withhold some percent from all incoming transfers. The guy in the video is talking about 15%. And then it will be your job to prove that you have already paid taxes on this money.
@@dmitriikurilov1569weird. I have done 4K usd transfer into my bank this year and no 15% withdrawal. I am guessing this is because my Thai bank is not psychic and has no way of knowing if I will be in Thailand for 180 days in 2024….
@@melissaakey4631 Probably, they have not implemented this mechanism yet. But their reasoning may be as follows: if these people have Thai bank accounts then highly likely they are Thai tax residents, so, let's withhold 15% from all their incoming transfers and it is their job to prove that the money shall be returned AFTER the end of the tax year. I may be overly pessimistic but so far the majority of my pessimistic forecasts proved to be true accurate. It does not describe me as a very smart person, it rather describe the world we live in 🤷
@@problematicpainandme1344?? I use transferwise to move money into Thailand. From the app you can find out the cost to transfer your currency to Thailand.
This is actually really good news because I presume I'll be able to not only take advantage of cheap/free hospital and GP treatments but can send my English kids to the free Thai schools, own a firearm, travel for free on many train lines, pay Thai rates at tourist attractions, vote in Thai elections, join the police force or armed services and even stand for political office (maybe become the first Farang PM).
I just talked to the people at my Thai bank and they are not doing anything concerning this tax law and they said the government has not finalized it all. And that actually it is an old law that pertains to Thais working over seas and sending money back to Thailand and now they want to include foreigners with this. As usual with the Thai government they come up with ideas but either nothing actually happens or they realize it’s actually not a good idea.
You know this is Thailand & so you know how this will go...if it goes....It will be on the customer to prove why the money should not be taxed & request it back at end of year as a tax return. There is no way the bank or the govt will search out each transfer reason. They will assume & tax all then throw it back to the customer to prove why it should not be taxed. This is after all Thailand...go into a emergency room at a private hosital...DO they immediately treat you or immediately ask you to prove how you will pay? Thailand is not going to let this money flow & later ask you to pay...instead I am betting it will be pay first & claim back later ...if you can
According to the tax lawyer in the video, incoming deposits will have a 15% withholding unless you agree to allow the bank to report all your financial information to the taxing authorities. My guess is most expats don't want any withholding, so they will agree to the reporting.
For those receiving Social Security from the US government, it would probably be best to have the deposit made directly to a Thai Bank Account, so that it will be clear that that amount should be exempted from Thai taxes. Any other amounts should be gotten at an ATM if possible. If one is not retired and not receiving US Social Security, then SOL.
@@Mark-rw3kw Your idea is very nice. But I don’t want another government in my personal business. It’s better to look at other countries. The Philippines has the three year tourist visa waver program, before requiring a visa run.
That is mostly true, but many countries have tax treaties so that a tax credit for foreign taxes can be applied to the tax return of the permanent country of residence. Generally, the US does have such foreign tax credits, but not sure if they have a tax treaty with Thailand, and since this is new Thai tax on US citizens living in Thailand, it might be looked at closely by the IRS. Also, the US taxes income, not money transfers, so it is possible that no tax is due in the US and it is only money being transferred to the Thailand, and in that case a tax credit on US tax return might not be of much help.
@@craigbmm4675 If you are a professional poker player, in the USA you can deduct all the expenses of playing poker, including travel costs and entry fees.
all old retiree this not have possiple, homecountry not have anythink if has moved to thailand many year before, has sell all at homecountry, expensive go to back homecountry if there not have anythink, all not can pay 2 house,car,etc, two country, not smart keep homecountry anythink if move live in thailand.
@@mattivirta I disagree with you. I think people are foolish to sell up everything and move to a country like Thailand. If you can't afford to have a base in your home country, I think it is better to stay where you are a citizen and have full citizen rights. I would never base myself in Thailand solely. I will always have the option to come back to my own great country, Australia when I need to, or just want to.
perhaps that is what the government wants - the policy is working then. Having economic migrants live full time is a drain of public services. Tourists (those staying less than 175 days) might be more beneficial from Thailand's economic perspective
I wonder how banks will know if someone stays more than 180 days in the country? Or will they, by default, tax all incoming money and then you have to prove that you stayed less than 180 days in the country to have the tax being refunded?
I think you are right, it is the easiest way for them and all I know about Thai people tells me that they tend to always pick the easiest way possible 😂
It's a USA slogan, and even then it doesn't even apply to all of its residents. Green card holders and felons can't vote but they are certainly taxed on their income.
Its just another case of paranoid farangs jumping the gun, nothing whatsoever has been set, some farangs in their infinite wisdom misinterpreted what is also just a speculation. This gets super annoying after a while. This interview offers nothing but more confusion which is actually the point of many youtubers to milk this nonsense. I'm sure 90% of farangs did not even understand what he is saying actually.
@@lavista4u I came to Thailand in 2001, looking for a good retirement location. (36 days) I ran because of immigration! I had to pay a bribe, to extend past 30 days. Then different and changing rules and laws. I was told I had to go to Malaysia, or other country, for the visa run. But then I was limited on how many visa runs I could do each year. Ok then deposit money in a Thai bank and let it sit. If I spend any, I must top it up at the end of a year. Then the tourist visa is 30 days, then it goes to 45 days, then they offer 60 days. Then it goes back to a 30 day tourist visa, with only one extension. Then I’m told I must fly back on my visa run, to extend another 30 days. But if I return over land, by walking across, I get just 15 days extension. Paranoid is not the needed word for retirees! The word is Stability! The Philippines offers a tourist visa for up to Three Years, before a visa run is needed. The average cost is about $2.00 USD per day, to extend your visa waver. I’m happy to pay the amount every 2 months or one month, for Stability! And now there may be taxes, accountants, government agents doing audits and tracking a persons income. See you in the Philippines!🇵🇭
Thai laws are chaotic just like their roads and drivers. They seem to change and invent new laws with no warning. And where is the benefit to farang? No land ownership, no work rights, expensive visa fees, I’m treated as a tourist everywhere, and I get to pay to enter temples, etc.
Can he list or name a step by step strategy to minimise or eliminate a requirement to pay tax. Eg 1. Stay less that 180 days 2. Provide document (whatever it is) to demonstrate it is a savings and not income 3. For US citizens, provide US pension and/or social security documents etc. Also for retirement visa expats who chose to deposited 800000 bth as apposed to 65000 bth method, will this deposit be taxed every year? if you pay tax, will this mean expats in Thailand can access the Thai government medical cover?
The tax consultants know what ought to happen. I have dealt with Thai immigration for 10 years, and I know things do not always go as they are supposed to. Errors are always at my expense. I remember when the financial surety rose from 200,000 baht to 800,000 baht. So much confusion at the time. Will I ever see that money again? If I died in Thailand my family will have to product "An Acceptable Document from an Australian Judge verifying that they are legally entitled to inherit that money." My family will first require "A legal document, proof of death, for Australia and for Thailand." What else will Thailand or the Bank demand? If there is no change for disability or retirement pensions, then do not say the tax laws will tax all income for tax residents (living over 179 days) in Thailand. The Thai Department of Revenue representing the Thai Government has a responsibility to clearly state this exemption and not require tax returns for foreign retirees. By the time that they do, we will all be gone, and not happy customers.
I wish you had asked him about the issues for property investment, someone buying a 50 million baht villa and importing those funds, those will now be taxable UNLESS they can prove tax paid elsewhere, so how would that proof be accepted. Actually enforcing this law crashes the real estate markets in tourist hotspots.
The Thai government doesn't care if you paid taxes elsewhere. If you live in Thailand more than 180 days you are a tax resident and owe taxes. You would have to hire a tax lawyer in your home country to prove you are a non resident for tax purposes. This is the process in Canada and many other countries. Is called a residence determination.
@@Dodger1999 you miss understand.. If the money is earned prior and taxes were paid on it, it is then pretaxed income that would be covered under a DTA. We are not talking about ongoing income while resident, but showing that savings are tax paid.
I have good news for you. The thai tax dept issued an official clarification recently stating that money remitted from offshore-sourced savings, income, or assets you owned PRIOR to 1 Jan 2024 is NOT subject to PIT if brought in anytime after 2023. I will try posting links but YT may not accept...
This will crush the housing market here. Because it sounds like if you want to transfer money here to buy a condo, then they will take 35% of it. To hell with that. Condo rates here are already way overpriced. They are almost 3X higher than KL per square meter. This is insane.
The more I read or watch videos about the new tax law, the more I'm confused :) The easiest will be not to bring any more money into Thailand. I'm still unclear about the tax on savings brought from overseas, especially when an account combines "old money" acquired before January 2024 with "new money" from dividends or other income.
@@mattivirta It depends on your situation. I have both a salary in Thailand and other income from abroad. But for people who have to continuously bring income from abroad, it could be an issue. I guess doing things like paying rent with Wise and paying some expenses with a credit card might be a workaround. Rich people can probably spend over 6 months outside of Thailand once, and bring several millions Baht to live for multiple years in Thailand.
So I could stay less than 180 days transfer in a large sum of money and Not be taxed as I am Not a tax resident, then next year you only spend money already in Thai bank account?
US has also signed a DTT (Double tax treaty, as many other countries in the world..more than 40) with Thailand so all funds wich are coming from a US "declared" account to thai based account are supposed to be not impacted , this new law could be in violation of the DTT if the tax is applied... can someone confirm?
I detest taxes also, and as a US citizen, I see the our government consistently wasting enormous amounts of our tax dollars. Thailand used to be my top relocation country, but no more. Even after your attorney's explanation, I can imagine a long term resident of Thailand being caught up in their tax system inadvertently. Do any of us need more bureaucratic hassles from our retirement country on top of the problems one has with the IRS here in the US?
So, if I were to bring in savings from my home country and those savings I have already paid tax on in my home country, would I be exempt from paying this new Thailand tax?
It's tricky. You'd have to prove where your savings came from in order to claim it was taxed. I would only bring in just enough money to cover my expenses. As far as taxation, if your income was taxed 25% in your home country and your tax rate in Thailand is 30% then you're liable for 5%.That's my understanding.
Only bring enough to live off no more. If you can also spend less than 6 months in Thailand. Unfortunately Thailand is no longer a longterm retirement destination but is still a good long stay tourist spot.
@@DIGITALMIND63 i understand if you pay retiree salary TAX ewery month 5‰ home country and send money ewery month thai bank account you need pay this income money -30‰ ewery month you retiree salary what mean full TAX you money have 35‰ and yhis have horriple and out off law.
It is the most troubling and unclear question so far. No official definition of lifetime savings exempt from taxation. Furthermore, what about proceedings from selling your home which was your principal residence and, therefore, the capital gain is exempt from taxation in your home country? Just imagine a retiree who has sold their home for $500k and plans to live of this money. They basically have 2 options: 1. Transfer all their money into Thailand before they become Thai tax residents (it means moving to Thailand in July or later in the year). But as far as I know transferring money out of Thailand is not as easy as transferring money into Thailand. I rather not have my money trapped in Thailand forever, who knows what other brilliant ideas they have on their minds. 2. Keep the bulk of their money in their home country and pull small amounts via ATMs, Wise, or something else but not via Thai banks.
What is the point in discussing and confusing everything about rules that have not been written this all just seems to be lawyers looking for work and the only answers they can give at the moment is maybe this maybe that but here’s your bill
Wow outstanding interview excellent yes this will make many people begin to exit but then US and China situation will also make people exit, this way anything will make people exit I think if you own a house in Thailand you're working in a large business / owning a hotel etc etc this should apply. they should be taxed .as for the OLD retirees and people that go out shopping here every day and put money really into the economy, I don't think they should shake them up or scare them, you know or make them run to the border also, that's not a good move because they are putting money into the economy already everyday, outstanding interview well done man, thank you good I like. 2024 .
Under the treaty, the only income exempt from thai taxes is Social Security and government pensions. If you are a Thai tax resident then per the treaty, most other income is indeed taxable in thailand (provided it is brought into Thailand) such as investment income, 401ks, IRAs, employment, rent, etc.
Nobody can be double taxed on the SAME revenues, it's internationally illegal (especially with a tax agreement treatee between the two countries). When you make money in a country, you declare that money there, and so pay taxes in that country. When you pay your taxes in a country (or back home), you get a tax receipt. You can always provide this tax receipt to the authorities of your new country in order to avoid being double taxed on the same revenue (but you rarely have to show the receipt, cause YOU'RE NOT EVEN SUPPOSED TO DECLARE A REVENUE YOU GET IN A COUNTRY A, TO THE COUNTRY B). If you choose not to (cause it's financially favorable to you tax wise), you can declare your revenues in your new country (that's what the tax agreement treatee between two particular countries is made for, in the first place) and will pay taxes there. In that case, you're still required to provide a tax receipt to your country of origin (or the one this money was made in) in order to not get double taxed on it. BUT THIS OPTION IS ONLY POSSIBLE IF THERE IS A TAX AGREEMENT TREATEE BETWEEN THE TWO COUNTRIES. To be taxed in your new country, you need to BE MAKING SOME MONEY IN THAT COUNTRY. To be taxed in two countries, you need to make money in both, RESPECTIVELY.
I thought that if u were an American citizen but earned money in thai, then u have to pay tax to the US government. Otherwise, you will lose all benefits. That is double taxing, isn't it?
@problematicpainandme1344 NO, you pay where you earn, that's an international rule NO COUNTRY can break. If you make money in a country and go live in a different one, you still owe your taxes to the previous one (where you earn, including passive income, of course). Exceptionally, and only if the country you live in allows it (it's only possible between countries that have a tax agreement treatee), AND IF YOU CHOSE TO DO SO CAUSE IT BENEFITS YOU (tax wise), you can opt for paying your taxes where it benefits you the most (BUT I REPEAT IT AGAIN FOR THOSE WHO ARE PROFESSIONAL MISUNDERSTANDERS, it's ONLY POSSIBLE IF 1. IF the country you're in allows that option (tax agreement treatee in place there), AND 2. IF YOU PICK THAT OPTION cause it benefits you financially). THE TAX AGREEMENT TREATEES WERE MADE TO PROHIBIT DOUBLE TAXING BY LAW. I don't understand how one can miss THAT FACT. How many braincells does it really take to get this basic concept ? HOW MANY ?
Except if you're American. US citizens must pay taxes regardless of if they are earning it in the United States or not. You do get exemptions, but those could be taken away at any time. I'll give you an example, if you sell a house in a different country even if you're a citizen of that country, and work in that country, depending on appreciation, you will be required to pay taxes on it. Ask Boris Johnson in the house he sold in England... I think he was just The London mayor at the time, but because he never formally declared that he wasn't American, even though he never actually declared that he was, since one of his parents was American, he was liable for those taxes
@@eric209 as I stated in the other post, they are exemptions, but no you are wrong, you absolutely have to pay American taxes even if you're earning it in a different country and have no other affiliation other than your citizenship to the USA
I use Bangkok Cheng Wattana for immigration. I renewed my One year type O Visa for reason of retirement last week. I am American I use the Income method and arrived with my usual paperwork. NOT ONE SINGLE WORD ABOUT TAX. In and out smooth as always. 8 years in Thailand.
I am an American on social security so, I will bring in only the social security, spend less time in Thailand, go shopping for clothes and other non-essentials in Vietnam or other countries. So the net result for Thailand is that I will pay no tax here and spend less money here. I think that I am not the only one who feels the same.
I DON'T THINK IT INCLUDES FOREIGNER. ONLY THAI RESIDENTS. IF, INCLUDES FOREIGNER. IT WILL DRIVE ALL THE PEOPLES OUT OF THE COUNTRY. IT GOING TO COST THAILAND ECONOMY.
Of course, a retiree cannot be taxed cause they already got taxed in their own country with a capital gain or dividend they received. Many countries have a double tax treaty with Thailand and you shouldn't pay extra. However, except in the case capital gain tax rate of Thailand is a little higher than home country, you have to pay extra on that rate.
I believe you are correct but they are still required to file a tax return in Thailand as all income has to be reported. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
The problem I have with this is that it is backward-looking. If I move to Thailand in 20+ years and start bringing my savings over, there's no way to know or prove how much of that existed before 2024 and how much tax I paid on each of those dollars.
My understanding is that if you pay a lower tax in your home country than you do in Thailand, then you have to pay an extra amount to meet the Thai rate. For example if you make 1 million baht as a single US taxpayer you would be taxed 12% in the US but as a tax resident of Thailand you would be taxed at 20% so you pay an extra 8% to Thailand. If you pay 35% in the US you owe Thailand nothing since it's the same rate in Thailand. But the key part is the money needs to be brought into Thailand. If you use your US credit card for airfare and travel use cash, ATM, or WISE in Thailand I think you're fine. If you need to make a big purchase like a car or condo I would consult an expert.
Mostly correct, but if you take money from an ATM in Thailand using a Wise card or foreign bank card then you have brought money into the country from abroad and it is taxable in Thailand. The ATM transactions are logged in the banking system and available to the Thai Revenue Department
There are always gray areas my friend, learn to ride those. Example- if you have foreign income don't let it touch a Thai bank, and avoid ATMs. You can do this by converting your foreign income to crypto back home, and find a reliable exchange for it in Thailand. The one I use doesn't put my name on anything and I can exchange for a live rate up to 700,000 per day. For safety take that money to a safety deposit box at k bank, where everything is confidential!
Exactly this, but too many boomers in the comments who don’t know how to even open a crypto account and then buy and send that crypto to an exchange here. But that’s the best option right there
how confusing was that? very hard to understand him, I had to put auto generated English sub titles. I am more confused than ever. Im just going to get out for six months a year. Im not taking chances. I probably dont need my Retirement Extension every year now, so that will free up 800k
I wouldn't be surprised if the bank's accounting department is going to tally up how much a person receives from abroad. The banks will submit this information to the tax authorities just like banks do in the USA.
@@yannip2083 The bank will probably just issue these numbers to whoever has a tax id number. Some random person withdrawing from an ATM is basically a tourist. My guess is if the bank issues a person a tax id during 2024, it will be a sign that they will submit reports to the tax authorities for that person.
ALL law what Thais has made have bad at foreigns, western foreigns, thai goverment want all western normal peoples not come to thailand and stay live and spend lot money thailand want only idiot tourism and small amount money.
One thing that I picked up here is that if you have a Thai bank account, as long as it is just a non-interest bearing checking account, the bank will not report the transactions to the Thai Tax Authority. They are just required to report interest to the Thai tax people. For me I would plan to stay in Thailand less than six months, so none of this would apply to me.
This guy insults and abuses the English language to the extent that he is babbling in what I will call, 'Thaiglish'. As a true blood Englishman, it is extremely painful for me to to listen to. At one point, I thought I was starting to understand a little, and make sense of Section 41, however, he just kept on babbling and threw absolute confusion over his whole narrative. There are other UA-camrs, who have interviewed other Thai tax lawyers who speak excellent English. Therefore, before I totally despair, I will wait until they make an update video.
We should be aware of it, but not panic. Thailand has to consult with multiple foreign governments. They would need a tax plan that was general enough not to trample on existing treaties and overcomplicate things. I could see them putting an extra sales tax on higher priced goods sold to foreign investors. It would not hurt tourism. This would aslo reduce the effects inflation on citizens. This could take years to finalize. Besides, I don't think Thailand would want to mess up a good thing.
It's law already. No consultation with foreign governments required. Normal Thai tax rates apply on money coming in from abroad if you are a tax resident in Thailand, just as they always did for money earned in Thailand. If the individual wants to claim some kind of exemption or rebate it is up to the individual to prove it to the Thai Revenue Department using documentary evidence.
@@adrianpaulwynne I understand they have a plan that they want to impliment this year. But, where can I get a copy of the actual law. No one seems to have specifics.
The sensible approach is to spend less than 180 days in Thailand. What the interview did not address was the situation for an expat retiring in Thailand ... and wanting to buy a condo? If you bring in 5,000,000 Baht to buy a property is the sum taxed by the Thai Tax Department? If it is I think that foreign condo sales will take a significant hit.
no problem for me. I have no income, no pension, no SSN income, nada. All I have is some savings. It would be nice to make some income with youtube works but I know the chances are quite slim for me. And if Thailand doesn't welcome, then so be it. Laos is quite close to Thailand.
So is Malaysia. Better infrastructure, civilized driving, cheaper, food is at least as good, cleaner, more-livable capital city, no wild dogs, no unsightly old-men-with-young-girls-and-boys everywhere, less-repressive "defamation" laws, no "fake smiles", etc.
Brutally straightforward: just withhold 15% of every incoming bank transfer and then letting you hire a local specialist to report your taxes in the end of the year and request tax refund. Tourists are not supposed ti have a Thai bank account anyway. So, if you have an account in a Thai bank they may assume that you are a Thai tax resident and obliged to pay taxes.
Wait, what? Wow! Thanks Forrest this is outrageous. I have to rethink my living arrangements in light of the shifting anti-expat sentiment. When you say big money, can you elaborate on what that means?
Totally useless information. In fact you are late in the guessing game as so many others have already gotten on the tax speculation bandwagon. The fact is no one will know how these changes will affect, if at all (!!), the individual circumstances of each one of us living long term in Thailand. Only lawyers and accountants are bringing this up to get more clients. It will take several months to a year to see how this might be implemented. Until clear guidelines and existing examples are made known, it’s all speculation for now. And this interview shows it well. So this vid. was a real bad idea and benefited to no one.
Our family has been vacationing in Thailand for many years based on the high probability we may retire there in the near future. The latest changes to the tax structure has forced us to re-think the plan we've had for all these years. As of now, we've gone from a 90% chance of retiring there in the next five years to about a 5% chance. The changes impact our plans so heavily, we're already looking at different destinations such as Malaysia for vacations now instead.
Are you referring to the government for applying new taxes?? OR understanding this guy trying to explain in English or what language? he i very very difficult to understand :) Sorry
I believe the retirement crisis will get even worse. Many struggle to save due to low wages, rising prices, and exorbitant rents. With homeownership becoming unattainable for middle-class Americans, they may not have a home to rely on for retirement either.
Got it! Buying stocks during a recession when prices are down could be a good move. You might get them at a lower price and sell later when they go up. Just do your homework and be aware of the risks before diving in!
@RoseSmith-v7g Mind if I ask you to recommend this particular coach you using their service?
@RoseSmith-v7g She appears to be well-educated and well-read. I ran a Google search for her name and came across her website; thank you for sharing.
I didn’t understand anything he said. Does anyone know another resource I can use? Thanks.
For me…it just means I won’t spend more than 6 months in Thailand a year.
Yea agree. I think this is going to hurt Thailand. Maybe in a year or two they except tourist visas at least from residency. If I can't get a driver's license why am I getting taxed.
Me too. I retire in March and already have my days mapped out. Laos, Vietnam, Cambodia, Philippines, Bali and Malaysia will get month a piece of my money.
@@SeeyouintheNT Hey..that's my plan too! It's a much better idea!
Same here, won't spend more than 6 months a year in Thailand.
Stay 150 days maximum in Thailand to avoid Count Taxman!
4 months Thailand, 4 Philippines, 4 Vietnam.
5 Months in Thailand, 3 Months in Philippines, 3 Months in Cambodia and 1 Month in home country to do taxes.
ATM and don’t stay over 180 days a year
Yes. Me 6 weeks in my South Pacific island, 1 week Japan on the way, 8 weeks Bangkok including a short visa run.
2 weeks other countries like NZ and US
Rinse and repeat...
I bring cash that I change at superrich at 0.3/0.5% fees, including some USD and JPY ...
I would spend 3 months in Vietnam (90 day visa), 3 months in Thailand, 3 in Philippines, 3 months in US/Home Country.
Sounds great but how much are you going to be paying for airfares Visas all that needs to added in to your costs agaist the tax. It's a hard one to work out I'm sure I'm in the clear as I'm on a Penison from Australia and we have a Treaty with Thailand on Double Tax but I'm going to have to look right into it
So they exempting "wealthy individuals" but tax everyone else. That sounds like a real fair policy Thailand!
They don’t want to scare away the wealthy who spend lots of money there. They want to don’t mind chasing away the poor expats.
ACTUALLY IT SOUNDS JUST LIKE ANY WESTERN NATION THE WORKERS PAY THE TAX THE RULING CLASS GETS TAX BRAKES JUST ASK TRUMP HOW IT WORKS
@@DeusExMachina50 CORRUPTION IS TIME IMMORTAL BUT THE AMERICANS HAVE REFINED IT INTO A FINE ART MASTERPIECE EVERYTHING IN AMERICA IS CORRUPT OR CORRUPTED FROM THE PRESIDENTCY TO THE TAXI DRIVER AND EVERYTHING IN-BETWEEN PERFECT EXAMPLE THE ELECTION OF TRUMP TO THE OVAL OFFICE AND HE NEVER EVEN HAD THE MAJORITY OF AMERICAN'S SUPPORTING HIM AND HE'S A PROVEN CROOK RAPIST. DRAFT DODGER TAX AVOIDER AND THIS IS A PATRIOTIC AMERICAN REALLY GOOD SET OF VALUES AND MORALS FOR A NATIONAL LEADER WITH HIS FINGER ON THE RED BUTTON WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU YANKS THINKING
WELCOME TO THE CAPITALIST SYSTEM
Travel back to
Your country get cash no bank transfer
Thai Gov taking a big risk in losing many expats who earn income / and pensions earning won't like this at all. If you combine the Poor Air Quality and other rising issues, could be the straw that broke the tourists' back. Vietnam has recently instituted a similar tax on money coming into Viet, but they call it a "Global Tax", goes from 15% to 45%, cheewawa. Philippines starting to look better again. Thai gov seems desperate for revenues, but in doing what they're planning, could put a real damper on tourism and real estate. Also I believe they want to keep those "tax credits" murky so they offer the gov flexibility and ability to interpret in the gov's favor. For those of us considering retiring in Thailand, starting to look murky and doubtful.
taxation is not for tourists. Its for immigrants.
There's no one smart enough to realize that. But they will blame it on everyone but themselves once the figure it out. Thainess at it's best
I learn Thailand is Nr. 18 in the Ranking
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_medal_count_at_International_Mathematical_Olympiad
Wherevi come from it is only 53
Ok
Every dollar brought in to Thailand is spent in Thailand. All the hotels, bars, street vendors are going to suffer from this. I myself am going to have to cut back on all my spending. It’s a very bad money grab that’s going to come back to bite them.
"Every dollar brought in to Thailand is spent in Thailand. " That may be true for tourists but they aren't even affected by these changes. Foreign retirees alone have to keep something 800k thai baht in their bank accounts forever that they can't touch. After one friend decided to move to Philippines he took that whole 800k out and moved. If you are retiree or expat and spend every single dollar in Thailand you probably have a lot in common with your own government. Spending like their is no tomorrow.
@jinparksoul I think Ron was (or could accurately have been) referring to expat retirees. Lots don’t bring in much beyond monthly spending money EXCEPT the 800k baht holding tax (400k for spousal) visa requirement. Many/ most don’t trust thai banks with their life savings or investment portfolios. So see, I think what Ron and yourself are saying amounts to the same thing. He’s not necessarily saying, as you assume, expats to Thailand spend like sailors on shore leave! For many expats their money is back home or elsewhere, like maybe Singapore where you can trust it’s still yours, w/d at will, etc. Thus, apart from the visas required 400k/800k, they spend what they bring in, likely monthly. How much more than that 800kbt did that friend have within Thailand and take with him from Thailand to the Philippines? I’ll bet not much beyond what he might have had in assets, like condo, car, scooter, and sold to cash prior to his exit. Maybe same-same
@@DM-qg4ysSaying "every dollar" with that understanding is like saying you can have any flavor of ice cream you desire as long as its chocolate. Its decimates the meaning of "every dollar brought in" to the degree that it makes it sound like a joke.
It's not unreasonable for Thailand to tax global income (most countries do), however, their tax rates are not competitive at all.
If it were a flat 15% I'd go for it. But they basically have commie-style progressive taxation like much of the Western world.
@@DM-qg4ys Retirees spend what they have where they live. Just the usual government greed and strong arming of the people. We have global tyranny because we have global government behind the curtain, and the plan is for the tyranny to ramp up beyond recognition the next couple years.
180 day rule is quasi universal. No surprise there. I think the issue is there should be distinction between income and savings. People living off savings should not be taxed on transfers.
Not totally have universal, only idiot Thai goverment can bite hand who feed him, totally idiot goverment have.
This entire tax thing definitely has had me reconsidering my current plans to retire to Thailand ever since the news hit. What a sh#$ show.
Bring back the 0 visa or Thailand is on the way out.
Same here
@@colinbaker485duck it, I’m going to the Philippines 🇵🇭
@@warrior_of_da-Tetragrammaton I couldn't decide between the Philippines and Thailand, but now, they made my mind up for me.
In just a decade or so they won't have retirees anymore. ASEAN market is growing way faster together with China in the coming years, they are protectionists, and nationalists and don't want you there anyway. So it will be their natural Choice, wait and see.
Hey Lee, could you please do a recap because I couldn’t understand him at all.
turn on the closed caption
Yep it was a bit gobbledegook ish and needs Clarifying...even the Sub titles couldn't keep up with this Guy
play at 0.75
Tell him to remove his buttplug
I thought this was supposed to be in English. (?)
After 10 years in Thailand - me and my wife have already given up on this country. We are moving next year
Where are you considering, may I ask?
@@cabowabo5557 south of europe
@@cabowabo5557 South Europe
Where? To the moon to avoid taxes? 😂
@@nanam9179 theres around 20 tax free countries on earth.. but yeah🤷♂️
The critical thing you forgot for the interview is a crystal ball to gaze into. The attempt to close a loophole will cause Thailand to lose billions of baht.
This is a real bummer. I'm an American eligible for the LTR work from Thailand visa and was looking forward to applying. Based on his interpertation, I wouldn't be exempt and be taxed by both the USA and Thailand. That's an automatic no for me.
IRS has Foreign earned income exclusion FEIE 0% tax up to 120k. you dont pay double tax as long as you file in home country. run it through a llc or trust and medicare/ SS is also 0%
@@user-dy2qq5wh4b People say this but $16,000/yr in social security/medicare tax you get hit with is not "nothing" to most of us. Yes I'm living overseas and now get out of FEDERAL TAX mostly, but that was only 50% of my tax bill to begin with.
@@user-dy2qq5wh4b You have to be out of the USA for at least 330 days before foreign exclusion is approved.
Not quite, since US and Thailand has tax treaty b/w the two. It is on Thai sides that is kinda vague
America has a tax treaty so not sure why this is not discussed
I'm starting to think that Thailand wants people come visit. Spend their money and leave. If you stay longer than 180 days it might cost you even more
They are just opportunists, they grab money if they have a chance without thinking too much about the long term consequences like how it would impact the real estate market, how it would impact the local business that serves expats etc.
That's all they ever wanted, lol. Foreigners like to kid themselves thinking its more than what it is. It's really not!
Looks like BKK condos will go on sale soon.. 50% discount?
😂😂😂😂
who idiot want live at BKK lot better have go live north thailand small city.
@@Rodderz1😂 that Thai condo price will go into free fall. Who will pay full price for something they only use 50% of the time?
I have in the last 3-4 days spoken to various Thai lawyers Tax Advisors and Accountants all reputable in Bkk. I have sold a UK.property (No taxes were paid as non were due) I shall bring over 4-5Mil Bt (£100k) to buy a rental property here for income to top up my pension. ALL advised that I will be liable for Thai tax at approx 25%. Purchase cancelled !!
@@Rodderz1 Spot on mate 100%. Also Thai real estate doesn't have great capital appreciation, very difficult to re- sell and poor construction quality means 15-20 year lifespan. This was just as a small house to rent out, until our daughter finishes Uni then for her to live in. CANCELLED!!
I will retire next year and planned to do so in Thailand. With that new tax I will definitely search for a different place. I think that tax is a good example for scare off retirees
and this have big joke to thailand. thailand kicked own head this idiot TAX case.
Maybe done on purpose.
Vietnam, Cambodia, Philippines or Laos are good options
I have to believe this is going to affect the real estate market. If you buy a condo, build a house or even buy a car you are going to have to transfer a bunch of extra cash. Getting taxed on that could be a significant expense.
easily solved. Dont come to Thailand for more than 6 months. Transfer all you want. Thats what im going to do. Im paying for a house now.
@@nickmondo222 Some of us actually live in Thailand
Yep absolutely !!
@@nickmondo222 Foolish. What happens when the foreign buyer market collapses?? You ll be stuck with it
I considered buying a condo in thailand I just won't bother now.
I bet there's thousands of other people just like me, Who can't be bothered with the red type all the hassle.
The most important thing I almost never see in these youtube and web forum discussions is how, if you want to be compliance, the resources and exact steps a foreigner should take to do so. I know someone that tried to get a tax id and was turned away because they didn't have a work permit and the office didn't know how to handle or process the request in that case.
exactly.... they don't even know how to enforce it...
spot on comment. there is just about zero actual info out there,- for example at immigration office where anyhow would need to report every 90 days-, giving foreigners the steps to take to comply.
His comment about Wise makes no sense. If Wise transfers money into Thai bank account, why will it be not be considered transfer? I see only a few ways to go around this... 1) Get LTR Visa 2) Use Bank ATM from US Bank and withdraw cash without transferring to Thai Bank 3) Stay less than 180 days in Thailand.
Say you want to bring in 1000 baht from the US and there is someone else in Thailand who wants to send 1000 baht to US. Wise matches you so the other guy sends 1000 baht to you in thailand and you give him 1000 baht in US. So no international transfer happens just 2 local transfers.
It makes a bit of sense in that Wise has bank accounts in Thailand and sums are transferred from their local bank account to yours, so it's not seen as incoming international transfer but rather a domestic transfer.
@@nicholasuloth6530wow.. didn’t know that’s how wise worked?? I thought you deposit money into your wise account from US bank and wise makes the transfer to the Thai bank.. I’ll look into it. Thanks
only makes sense if youre spending from a wise CARD or a wirex revolut etc. So the foreign banking institution makes the conversion when you spend Thai baht directly from your balance of pounds dollars etc so technically its not money that has been transfered into Thailand though a bank account, financial institution
-Its very simple you use your wise debit card in an ATM .Do not transfer it into your Thai bank account or the powers that be will tax it as its all recorded at the bank .Their are international laws of privacy , so the transaction of your wise card at an ATM cannot be recognised , banks are not allowed also to give any information regarding the transaction of a ATM card transaction by the user . they will not give information of who you are , where you come from and how much you've withdrawn ,all transactions are encrypted and secure and so every time you withdraw your cash from the ATM you are anonymous .
This really sucks. Based on what I read, even though my retirement is not taxable here in America, I would be taxed at 25% if I move there full time. After 2 1/2 years preparing to move there, I’m now looking at other options.
checked the phillippines yet??
@@allanwatts8361 I have. That’s high on my list.
I am in the same boat. 20 months away from retiring in Thailand and those plans have now been scrapped. May check out the PI@@allanwatts8361
Try Cambodia
Why Cambodia? Give me the lowdown, brother!@@buckytravelsplaces7581
No problem for me less than 180 days is fine, split it with back home or other countries, too risky these days to "Sell the farm and move to x cheap country".
You might want to look at Article IV (or Article 4) of the tax treaty between your home country and Thailand.
exactly @@yvr2002rtw
but IF not have homecountry anythink no home, no work ,no life, and need stay thailand because thailand have thai wife, childrens,car,house,all not easy go out of thailand anythink.
OK... So I might be taxed. I'm 100% positive that if I walked into the tax man's office in Bangkok and asked them for the right forms because I want to pay my taxes that they wouldn't know. Will my Thai savings account automatically get taxes? Or will they send me a form? Is immigration informing the tax man of my address? The whole thing is absurd and not viable. This will implode.
I think they will do it very simply: withhold some percent from all incoming transfers.
The guy in the video is talking about 15%.
And then it will be your job to prove that you have already paid taxes on this money.
@@dmitriikurilov1569weird. I have done 4K usd transfer into my bank this year and no 15% withdrawal. I am guessing this is because my Thai bank is not psychic and has no way of knowing if I will be in Thailand for 180 days in 2024….
@@melissaakey4631 Probably, they have not implemented this mechanism yet.
But their reasoning may be as follows: if these people have Thai bank accounts then highly likely they are Thai tax residents, so, let's withhold 15% from all their incoming transfers and it is their job to prove that the money shall be returned AFTER the end of the tax year.
I may be overly pessimistic but so far the majority of my pessimistic forecasts proved to be true accurate.
It does not describe me as a very smart person, it rather describe the world we live in 🤷
@melissaakey4631 do u have to pay the fee on the transfer?
@@problematicpainandme1344?? I use transferwise to move money into Thailand. From the app you can find out the cost to transfer your currency to Thailand.
Thank you both for your time and posting. Portugal just got rid of their 10-year tax exemption for expects.
This is actually really good news because I presume I'll be able to not only take advantage of cheap/free hospital and GP treatments but can send my English kids to the free Thai schools, own a firearm, travel for free on many train lines, pay Thai rates at tourist attractions, vote in Thai elections, join the police force or armed services and even stand for political office (maybe become the first Farang PM).
I just talked to the people at my Thai bank and they are not doing anything concerning this tax law and they said the government has not finalized it all. And that actually it is an old law that pertains to Thais working over seas and sending money back to Thailand and now they want to include foreigners with this. As usual with the Thai government they come up with ideas but either nothing actually happens or they realize it’s actually not a good idea.
Yep, also joint treaty with USA makes it clear that income taxed in one country is not taxable in the other.
You know this is Thailand & so you know how this will go...if it goes....It will be on the customer to prove why the money should not be taxed & request it back at end of year as a tax return. There is no way the bank or the govt will search out each transfer reason. They will assume & tax all then throw it back to the customer to prove why it should not be taxed. This is after all Thailand...go into a emergency room at a private hosital...DO they immediately treat you or immediately ask you to prove how you will pay? Thailand is not going to let this money flow & later ask you to pay...instead I am betting it will be pay first & claim back later ...if you can
According to the tax lawyer in the video, incoming deposits will have a 15% withholding unless you agree to allow the bank to report all your financial information to the taxing authorities. My guess is most expats don't want any withholding, so they will agree to the reporting.
Sounds about right for sure
For those receiving Social Security from the US government, it would probably be best to have the deposit made directly to a Thai Bank Account, so that it will be clear that that amount should be exempted from Thai taxes. Any other amounts should be gotten at an ATM if possible. If one is not retired and not receiving US Social Security, then SOL.
@@Mark-rw3kw
Your idea is very nice.
But I don’t want another government in my personal business. It’s better to look at other countries.
The Philippines has the three year tourist visa waver program, before requiring a visa run.
Money earned outside Thailand has already been taxed in the country it has earned.
This is double taxation in effect taxing money itself
That is mostly true, but many countries have tax treaties so that a tax credit for foreign taxes can be applied to the tax return of the permanent country of residence. Generally, the US does have such foreign tax credits, but not sure if they have a tax treaty with Thailand, and since this is new Thai tax on US citizens living in Thailand, it might be looked at closely by the IRS. Also, the US taxes income, not money transfers, so it is possible that no tax is due in the US and it is only money being transferred to the Thailand, and in that case a tax credit on US tax return might not be of much help.
right . i hate that ,. just like poker winnings . the money to enter the tourney was already taxed . then they take 25-30% more if you win
@@craigbmm4675 If you are a professional poker player, in the USA you can deduct all the expenses of playing poker, including travel costs and entry fees.
@@craigbmm4675and you can't write off your loses
tax pays for public services, and the country you live in provide you with public services
I will reduce the amount of time I stay in Thailand to 175 days.
same
all old retiree this not have possiple, homecountry not have anythink if has moved to thailand many year before, has sell all at homecountry, expensive go to back homecountry if there not have anythink, all not can pay 2 house,car,etc, two country, not smart keep homecountry anythink if move live in thailand.
@@mattivirta I disagree with you. I think people are foolish to sell up everything and move to a country like Thailand. If you can't afford to have a base in your home country, I think it is better to stay where you are a citizen and have full citizen rights. I would never base myself in Thailand solely. I will always have the option to come back to my own great country, Australia when I need to, or just want to.
perhaps that is what the government wants - the policy is working then. Having economic migrants live full time is a drain of public services. Tourists (those staying less than 175 days) might be more beneficial from Thailand's economic perspective
heading to loas for 70 days back to thailand then next year only using ATM probably looking onto another spot
Clear as mud. Thanks Forrest. lol
Seems like you understand this guy, maybe you can do a break down of what he said
I wonder how banks will know if someone stays more than 180 days in the country? Or will they, by default, tax all incoming money and then you have to prove that you stayed less than 180 days in the country to have the tax being refunded?
Immigration, banking and financial department works "hand in glove" along with Count Taxman in Thailand!
Refunded?? I think once they've got your money they aren't going to be very helpful in returning any excess taxes you were charged
I think you are right, it is the easiest way for them and all I know about Thai people tells me that they tend to always pick the easiest way possible 😂
Taxation without representation?
this aint america smh
It's a USA slogan, and even then it doesn't even apply to all of its residents. Green card holders and felons can't vote but they are certainly taxed on their income.
Well Put.
taxation is based on residency, not nationality - it is a basic universal concept applied in most civilised countries
@@patoises In most civilized countries there is representation for that tax!
Its just another case of paranoid farangs jumping the gun, nothing whatsoever has been set, some farangs in their infinite wisdom misinterpreted what is also just a speculation. This gets super annoying after a while. This interview offers nothing but more confusion which is actually the point of many youtubers to milk this nonsense. I'm sure 90% of farangs did not even understand what he is saying actually.
@@lavista4u
I came to Thailand in 2001, looking for a good retirement location. (36 days) I ran because of immigration! I had to pay a bribe, to extend past 30 days. Then different and changing rules and laws. I was told I had to go to Malaysia, or other country, for the visa run. But then I was limited on how many visa runs I could do each year. Ok then deposit money in a Thai bank and let it sit. If I spend any, I must top it up at the end of a year. Then the tourist visa is 30 days, then it goes to 45 days, then they offer 60 days. Then it goes back to a 30 day tourist visa, with only one extension. Then I’m told I must fly back on my visa run, to extend another 30 days. But if I return over land, by walking across, I get just 15 days extension.
Paranoid is not the needed word for retirees!
The word is Stability!
The Philippines offers a tourist visa for up to Three Years, before a visa run is needed. The average cost is about $2.00 USD per day, to extend your visa waver.
I’m happy to pay the amount every 2 months or one month, for Stability!
And now there may be taxes, accountants, government agents doing audits and tracking a persons income.
See you in the Philippines!🇵🇭
i feel so sad for my wife. we were planning a move back soon with our daughters.
For those who said he speaks too fast 0.75x playback speed is your friend 🙂
@ThailandForexTrader lol 😆
Thai laws are chaotic just like their roads and drivers. They seem to change and invent new laws with no warning. And where is the benefit to farang? No land ownership, no work rights, expensive visa fees, I’m treated as a tourist everywhere, and I get to pay to enter temples, etc.
You don't have to stay there. You can go back to your own country.
I think the Philippines is the best place to go but I would do some research
Until its not.
The Philippines is awesome! Less worries and more safe for expats! 😊
Can he list or name a step by step strategy to minimise or eliminate a requirement to pay tax. Eg 1. Stay less that 180 days 2. Provide document (whatever it is) to demonstrate it is a savings and not income 3. For US citizens, provide US pension and/or social security documents etc. Also for retirement visa expats who chose to deposited 800000 bth as apposed to 65000 bth method, will this deposit be taxed every year? if you pay tax, will this mean expats in Thailand can access the Thai government medical cover?
Sounded like to me a double taxation even though Thailand has tax treaty with US
The problem is that Thailand is taxing money transfers into Thailand (which can include principal or money previously saved up) and not just income.
The tax consultants know what ought to happen. I have dealt with Thai immigration for 10 years, and I know things do not always go as they are supposed to. Errors are always at my expense. I remember when the financial surety rose from 200,000 baht to 800,000 baht. So much confusion at the time. Will I ever see that money again? If I died in Thailand my family will have to product "An Acceptable Document from an Australian Judge verifying that they are legally entitled to inherit that money." My family will first require "A legal document, proof of death, for Australia and for Thailand." What else will Thailand or the Bank demand?
If there is no change for disability or retirement pensions, then do not say the tax laws will tax all income for tax residents (living over 179 days) in Thailand. The Thai Department of Revenue representing the Thai Government has a responsibility to clearly state this exemption and not require tax returns for foreign retirees. By the time that they do, we will all be gone, and not happy customers.
I wish you had asked him about the issues for property investment, someone buying a 50 million baht villa and importing those funds, those will now be taxable UNLESS they can prove tax paid elsewhere, so how would that proof be accepted.
Actually enforcing this law crashes the real estate markets in tourist hotspots.
The Thai government doesn't care if you paid taxes elsewhere. If you live in Thailand more than 180 days you are a tax resident and owe taxes. You would have to hire a tax lawyer in your home country to prove you are a non resident for tax purposes. This is the process in Canada and many other countries. Is called a residence determination.
@@Dodger1999 you miss understand..
If the money is earned prior and taxes were paid on it, it is then pretaxed income that would be covered under a DTA.
We are not talking about ongoing income while resident, but showing that savings are tax paid.
I have good news for you. The thai tax dept issued an official clarification recently stating that money remitted from offshore-sourced savings, income, or assets you owned PRIOR to 1 Jan 2024 is NOT subject to PIT if brought in anytime after 2023. I will try posting links but YT may not accept...
if the links are suppressed, the info can be found at tilleke and kpmg@@Dodger1999
@@davidrichards1741 yes already have it..
But that still implies that proof of source of funds, and likely a tax return will be required.
It's a radical idea, but has anyone in the government thought about spending less and not running deficits?
here's another radical idea - locals pay taxes, economic migrants rants about host governments
This will crush the housing market here. Because it sounds like if you want to transfer money here to buy a condo, then they will take 35% of it. To hell with that. Condo rates here are already way overpriced. They are almost 3X higher than KL per square meter. This is insane.
you can just transfer it straight to the seller no?
The more I read or watch videos about the new tax law, the more I'm confused :) The easiest will be not to bring any more money into Thailand.
I'm still unclear about the tax on savings brought from overseas, especially when an account combines "old money" acquired before January 2024 with "new money" from dividends or other income.
but need move money to thailand can make visa and buy house and car and motorbike etc, and ewery month need move money to thailand can live.
@@mattivirta It depends on your situation. I have both a salary in Thailand and other income from abroad. But for people who have to continuously bring income from abroad, it could be an issue. I guess doing things like paying rent with Wise and paying some expenses with a credit card might be a workaround. Rich people can probably spend over 6 months outside of Thailand once, and bring several millions Baht to live for multiple years in Thailand.
So I could stay less than 180 days transfer in a large sum of money and Not be taxed as I am Not a tax resident, then next year you only spend money already in Thai bank account?
my thought as well haha. Wanna buy a condo? Move aways, buy it, move back.
or if you spend over 180 days just use a foreign debit card and dont bother getting a thai bank account
taxation without representation? no thanks.
Use Wise account to pay bills and rent. Use ATM card for daily expenses.
Need Thai bank account for retirement visa.
US has also signed a DTT (Double tax treaty, as many other countries in the world..more than 40) with Thailand so all funds wich are coming from a US "declared" account to thai based account are supposed to be not impacted , this new law could be in violation of the DTT if the tax is applied... can someone confirm?
What is a US "declared" account?
I detest taxes also, and as a US citizen, I see the our government consistently wasting enormous amounts of our tax dollars. Thailand used to be my top relocation country, but no more. Even after your attorney's explanation, I can imagine a long term resident of Thailand being caught up in their tax system inadvertently. Do any of us need more bureaucratic hassles from our retirement country on top of the problems one has with the IRS here in the US?
Thanks for the info! I left when they wanted $25,000 deposited in a
Thai bank to extend my visa.
People will leave or start bringing in cash if this gets bad.
Great subject but his English , sorry to say , I got more confuse n not understanding. Please recap what he said .
I watched the video at 0.75 speed. Made him much easier to understand
So, if I were to bring in savings from my home country and those savings I have already paid tax on in my home country, would I be exempt from paying this new Thailand tax?
It's tricky. You'd have to prove where your savings came from in order to claim it was taxed. I would only bring in just enough money to cover my expenses. As far as taxation, if your income was taxed 25% in your home country and your tax rate in Thailand is 30% then you're liable for 5%.That's my understanding.
They can kiss my arse.
Only bring enough to live off no more. If you can also spend less than 6 months in Thailand. Unfortunately Thailand is no longer a longterm retirement destination but is still a good long stay tourist spot.
@@DIGITALMIND63 i understand if you pay retiree salary TAX ewery month 5‰ home country and send money ewery month thai bank account you need pay this income money -30‰ ewery month you retiree salary what mean full TAX you money have 35‰ and yhis have horriple and out off law.
It is the most troubling and unclear question so far.
No official definition of lifetime savings exempt from taxation.
Furthermore, what about proceedings from selling your home which was your principal residence and, therefore, the capital gain is exempt from taxation in your home country?
Just imagine a retiree who has sold their home for $500k and plans to live of this money.
They basically have 2 options:
1. Transfer all their money into Thailand before they become Thai tax residents (it means moving to Thailand in July or later in the year). But as far as I know transferring money out of Thailand is not as easy as transferring money into Thailand. I rather not have my money trapped in Thailand forever, who knows what other brilliant ideas they have on their minds.
2. Keep the bulk of their money in their home country and pull small amounts via ATMs, Wise, or something else but not via Thai banks.
No one is going to go there to live to be double taxed if they do they must be insane.
What is the point in discussing and confusing everything about rules that have not been written this all just seems to be lawyers looking for work and the only answers they can give at the moment is maybe this maybe that but here’s your bill
Wow outstanding interview excellent yes this will make many people begin to exit but then US and China situation will also make people exit, this way anything will make people exit I think if you own a house in Thailand you're working in a large business / owning a hotel etc etc this should apply. they should be taxed .as for the OLD retirees and people that go out shopping here every day and put money really into the economy, I don't think they should shake them up or scare them, you know or make them run to the border also, that's not a good move because they are putting money into the economy already everyday, outstanding interview well done man, thank you good I like. 2024 .
I understood 10% of what he said
US citizens should read the Thai US tax treaty articles 4, 20 and 21 😊
Under the treaty, the only income exempt from thai taxes is Social Security and government pensions. If you are a Thai tax resident then per the treaty, most other income is indeed taxable in thailand (provided it is brought into Thailand) such as investment income, 401ks, IRAs, employment, rent, etc.
how all other europe countrys.
Nobody can be double taxed on the SAME revenues, it's internationally illegal (especially with a tax agreement treatee between the two countries).
When you make money in a country, you declare that money there, and so pay taxes in that country. When you pay your taxes in a country (or back home), you get a tax receipt. You can always provide this tax receipt to the authorities of your new country in order to avoid being double taxed on the same revenue (but you rarely have to show the receipt, cause YOU'RE NOT EVEN SUPPOSED TO DECLARE A REVENUE YOU GET IN A COUNTRY A, TO THE COUNTRY B).
If you choose not to (cause it's financially favorable to you tax wise), you can declare your revenues in your new country (that's what the tax agreement treatee between two particular countries is made for, in the first place) and will pay taxes there. In that case, you're still required to provide a tax receipt to your country of origin (or the one this money was made in) in order to not get double taxed on it. BUT THIS OPTION IS ONLY POSSIBLE IF THERE IS A TAX AGREEMENT TREATEE BETWEEN THE TWO COUNTRIES.
To be taxed in your new country, you need to BE MAKING SOME MONEY IN THAT COUNTRY.
To be taxed in two countries, you need to make money in both, RESPECTIVELY.
I thought that if u were an American citizen but earned money in thai, then u have to pay tax to the US government. Otherwise, you will lose all benefits. That is double taxing, isn't it?
@problematicpainandme1344 NO, you pay where you earn, that's an international rule NO COUNTRY can break. If you make money in a country and go live in a different one, you still owe your taxes to the previous one (where you earn, including passive income, of course).
Exceptionally, and only if the country you live in allows it (it's only possible between countries that have a tax agreement treatee), AND IF YOU CHOSE TO DO SO CAUSE IT BENEFITS YOU (tax wise), you can opt for paying your taxes where it benefits you the most (BUT I REPEAT IT AGAIN FOR THOSE WHO ARE PROFESSIONAL MISUNDERSTANDERS, it's ONLY POSSIBLE IF 1. IF the country you're in allows that option (tax agreement treatee in place there), AND 2. IF YOU PICK THAT OPTION cause it benefits you financially).
THE TAX AGREEMENT TREATEES WERE MADE TO PROHIBIT DOUBLE TAXING BY LAW. I don't understand how one can miss THAT FACT. How many braincells does it really take to get this basic concept ? HOW MANY ?
Except if you're American. US citizens must pay taxes regardless of if they are earning it in the United States or not. You do get exemptions, but those could be taken away at any time. I'll give you an example, if you sell a house in a different country even if you're a citizen of that country, and work in that country, depending on appreciation, you will be required to pay taxes on it. Ask Boris Johnson in the house he sold in England... I think he was just The London mayor at the time, but because he never formally declared that he wasn't American, even though he never actually declared that he was, since one of his parents was American, he was liable for those taxes
@@eric209 as I stated in the other post, they are exemptions, but no you are wrong, you absolutely have to pay American taxes even if you're earning it in a different country and have no other affiliation other than your citizenship to the USA
I use Bangkok Cheng Wattana for immigration. I renewed my One year type O Visa for reason of retirement last week. I am American I use the Income method and arrived with my usual paperwork. NOT ONE SINGLE WORD ABOUT TAX. In and out smooth as always. 8 years in Thailand.
do you have a link for the income method?
@@TheCK84Project what do you want to know? If you go on Thai immigration website you can search it, but instructions are vague.
I will use my company’s uk credit card to withdraw money in Thailand.
Surcharge or exchange fees levied?
@@DaBooster better than paying 35% tax
@@carlyndolphin i think he said 15% but its always a loophole. once the facts are out about this
@@user-nl9me3er7w It’s crazy because in the UK I pay 8.75% dividend tax, but if I move to Thailand I have to pay 35%. Cheaper for me to live in UK.
@@user-nl9me3er7w seems like everyone is still confused....
I am an American on social security so, I will bring in only the social security, spend less time in Thailand, go shopping for clothes and other non-essentials in Vietnam or other countries. So the net result for Thailand is that I will pay no tax here and spend less money here. I think that I am not the only one who feels the same.
I DON'T THINK IT INCLUDES FOREIGNER. ONLY THAI RESIDENTS. IF, INCLUDES FOREIGNER. IT WILL DRIVE ALL THE PEOPLES OUT OF THE COUNTRY. IT GOING TO COST THAILAND ECONOMY.
absolutely
Nah, Thailand don’t need foreigners , especially poor expats with limited income 🤪
Of course, a retiree cannot be taxed cause they already got taxed in their own country with a capital gain or dividend they received. Many countries have a double tax treaty with Thailand and you shouldn't pay extra. However, except in the case capital gain tax rate of Thailand is a little higher than home country, you have to pay extra on that rate.
I believe you are correct but they are still required to file a tax return in Thailand as all income has to be reported. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
The problem I have with this is that it is backward-looking. If I move to Thailand in 20+ years and start bringing my savings over, there's no way to know or prove how much of that existed before 2024 and how much tax I paid on each of those dollars.
My understanding is that if you pay a lower tax in your home country than you do in Thailand, then you have to pay an extra amount to meet the Thai rate.
For example if you make 1 million baht as a single US taxpayer you would be taxed 12% in the US but as a tax resident of Thailand you would be taxed at 20% so you pay an extra 8% to Thailand. If you pay 35% in the US you owe Thailand nothing since it's the same rate in Thailand.
But the key part is the money needs to be brought into Thailand. If you use your US credit card for airfare and travel use cash, ATM, or WISE in Thailand I think you're fine. If you need to make a big purchase like a car or condo I would consult an expert.
Sounds all logical and makes some sense but under Thai logic could mean all you stated is 100% wrong!
The paperwork would be a nightmare - international taxes are a real pain in the ass.
Mostly correct, but if you take money from an ATM in Thailand using a Wise card or foreign bank card then you have brought money into the country from abroad and it is taxable in Thailand. The ATM transactions are logged in the banking system and available to the Thai Revenue Department
Yep, and I have a feeling it will ignore roth IRA/401k tax rules. USA will tax 0% and Thailand will tax 36% 😅
@@obiwon84 Any tax exemptions or allowances in your home country tax code apply only to your home country and are not recognised in Thai tax law
I don’t quite think they have thought this through!
There are always gray areas my friend, learn to ride those. Example- if you have foreign income don't let it touch a Thai bank, and avoid ATMs. You can do this by converting your foreign income to crypto back home, and find a reliable exchange for it in Thailand. The one I use doesn't put my name on anything and I can exchange for a live rate up to 700,000 per day. For safety take that money to a safety deposit box at k bank, where everything is confidential!
Exactly this, but too many boomers in the comments who don’t know how to even open a crypto account and then buy and send that crypto to an exchange here. But that’s the best option right there
I don’t think the government there understand people from west will just go eles we’re
Taxation is also used to enslave and control the upper-middle class which is the "almost" rich guy!
So… in practice will expats be taxed on ALL foreign sourced income? Or only income brought in?
how confusing was that? very hard to understand him, I had to put auto generated English sub titles. I am more confused than ever. Im just going to get out for six months a year. Im not taking chances. I probably dont need my Retirement Extension every year now, so that will free up 800k
I wouldn't be surprised if the bank's accounting department is going to tally up how much a person receives from abroad. The banks will submit this information to the tax authorities just like banks do in the USA.
But if you merely go to the local ATM to cash money, you don't have a local Thai bank account, how does the local bank track you?
@@yannip2083 The bank will probably just issue these numbers to whoever has a tax id number. Some random person withdrawing from an ATM is basically a tourist. My guess is if the bank issues a person a tax id during 2024, it will be a sign that they will submit reports to the tax authorities for that person.
One word. They are just greedy..
Same as governments around the world. Greedy bast***s.
Can you take a few steps back? Is this for income earned in Thailand or anything you bring to Thailand?
This is remittance tax! I'm sure if you earn income in Thailand for a Thai employer, you're already are paying taxes.
This is so complicated. Its too complicated. I love Thailand but this is not a positive thing.
ALL law what Thais has made have bad at foreigns, western foreigns, thai goverment want all western normal peoples not come to thailand and stay live and spend lot money thailand want only idiot tourism and small amount money.
Time to leave Thailand and find somewhere more welcoming.
Malaysia
The Philippines is awesome!😊
What happens if your on a retirement visa
I’m still undecided if I will invest in Thailand now. Was looking forward to retiring there but can’t see it happen anymore
One thing that I picked up here is that if you have a Thai bank account, as long as it is just a non-interest bearing checking account, the bank will not report the transactions to the Thai Tax Authority. They are just required to report interest to the Thai tax people. For me I would plan to stay in Thailand less than six months, so none of this would apply to me.
This guy insults and abuses the English language to the extent that he is babbling in what I will call, 'Thaiglish'.
As a true blood Englishman, it is extremely painful for me to to listen to.
At one point, I thought I was starting to understand a little, and make sense of Section 41, however, he just kept on babbling and threw absolute confusion over his whole narrative.
There are other UA-camrs, who have interviewed other Thai tax lawyers who speak excellent English. Therefore, before I totally despair, I will wait until they make an update video.
Agreed - I really couldn't follow his narrative, was most confusing.
Hah! LOL 😂 I’m an American and understanding anything Englishmen say is a miracle.
If its painful for you maybe you should stay in England
We should be aware of it, but not panic. Thailand has to consult with multiple foreign governments. They would need a tax plan that was general enough not to trample on existing treaties and overcomplicate things. I could see them putting an extra sales tax on higher priced goods sold to foreign investors. It would not hurt tourism. This would aslo reduce the effects inflation on citizens. This could take years to finalize. Besides, I don't think Thailand would want to mess up a good thing.
It's law already. No consultation with foreign governments required. Normal Thai tax rates apply on money coming in from abroad if you are a tax resident in Thailand, just as they always did for money earned in Thailand. If the individual wants to claim some kind of exemption or rebate it is up to the individual to prove it to the Thai Revenue Department using documentary evidence.
@@adrianpaulwynne I understand they have a plan that they want to impliment this year. But, where can I get a copy of the actual law. No one seems to have specifics.
Thats a shame. Takes Thailand off the list.
Probably a blessing in disguise for many would-be expats ...
That means you don’t stay in Thailand for over 180 days. Or they will tax you over 25%
The sensible approach is to spend less than 180 days in Thailand. What the interview did not address was the situation for an expat retiring in Thailand ... and wanting to buy a condo? If you bring in 5,000,000 Baht to buy a property is the sum taxed by the Thai Tax Department? If it is I think that foreign condo sales will take a significant hit.
I did not understand!😮😮😂😂
no problem for me. I have no income, no pension, no SSN income, nada. All I have is some savings. It would be nice to make some income with youtube works but I know the chances are quite slim for me. And if Thailand doesn't welcome, then so be it. Laos is quite close to Thailand.
So is Malaysia. Better infrastructure, civilized driving, cheaper, food is at least as good, cleaner, more-livable capital city, no wild dogs, no unsightly old-men-with-young-girls-and-boys everywhere, less-repressive "defamation" laws, no "fake smiles", etc.
I only plan on visiting probably one month a year each year of my life. So ill be fine spending 2k a year on trips one time every 2 years no issues.
I wemt to a lawyer and asked them to prepare my taxes and explain it. They said they also don't understand it yet so I should do nothing.
I want to know how they're going to enforce that. Because, my response is... COME FIND ME... I'm not paying.
Brutally straightforward: just withhold 15% of every incoming bank transfer and then letting you hire a local specialist to report your taxes in the end of the year and request tax refund.
Tourists are not supposed ti have a Thai bank account anyway.
So, if you have an account in a Thai bank they may assume that you are a Thai tax resident and obliged to pay taxes.
i dont understannd , im swiss i pay tax in swiss then i send my money to Thailand, i have to pay tax in Thailand. ?
Yup.
maybe, nobody is sure, not even the lawyer all the way. the govt is still trying to figure it out
@user-nl9me3er7w What they are trying to figure out is how to close all the loopholes so they can stick it to all of us.
Wrong I check it, if you pay tax in your home country you don’t need pay again in Thailand
Yes, sir. Whatever Swiss government doesn't take, the rest goes to Thailand
Im still confused. Not to self: never stay more than 180 days per year in Thailand.
Wait, what? Wow! Thanks Forrest this is outrageous. I have to rethink my living arrangements in light of the shifting anti-expat sentiment. When you say big money, can you elaborate on what that means?
How are tourists taxed?
What are we being taxed on? (Are we taxed on being there 180 days?)
Totally useless information. In fact you are late in the guessing game as so many others have already gotten on the tax speculation bandwagon. The fact is no one will know how these changes will affect, if at all (!!), the individual circumstances of each one of us living long term in Thailand. Only lawyers and accountants are bringing this up to get more clients. It will take several months to a year to see how this might be implemented. Until clear guidelines and existing examples are made known, it’s all speculation for now. And this interview shows it well. So this vid. was a real bad idea and benefited to no one.
How many Thais pay income tax.....
right?
Finding it difficult to understand the man’s accent
Our family has been vacationing in Thailand for many years based on the high probability we may retire there in the near future. The latest changes to the tax structure has forced us to re-think the plan we've had for all these years. As of now, we've gone from a 90% chance of retiring there in the next five years to about a 5% chance. The changes impact our plans so heavily, we're already looking at different destinations such as Malaysia for vacations now instead.
Are you referring to the government for applying new taxes?? OR understanding this guy trying to explain in English or what language? he i very very difficult to understand :) Sorry
4 countries 3 flights no visa expenses no income tax no VAT. Easy and cheap to fly to KL or Danang or Siam Reap.
As clear as mud. Whatever happens I m pretty sure there will be a way round it. Too many people panicking too early.
Thailand is only meant for shorter stays now.
can you just do a border run ? leave and come back ?