It makes sense intuitively. The first selection applies a gradient/partial mask to the "bleed" areas, lets say 25% opacity. I think Adobe would argue that is a "feature" not a "bug", because they want a little bit of feathering between the sky and nearest foreground so that edits don't look too unnatural. So then when you select the second mask and invert it, you're inverting the 25% opacity parts of the image and subtracting that out so that you no longer have any "bleed". The foreground/ground parts subtract out at 100% opacity but that has no effect since your original sky mask didn't select it. So it makes sense why this technique works to get a cleaner sky selection, but likely you will have to apply other techniques like gradient intersection to make the transition from sky to ground less jarring. Kudos for finding this technique, you have another subscriber.
Thanks Brian. I just used this technique using “Subject” instead of sky for birds in flight. It works a lot better especially when trying to clean up the mask between the tips of the feathers. Thanks again for your tutorials.
You've taken the bar for teaching online and shot it to the moon. Well done. You think of everything and everywhere someone might stray off the teaching (i.e. making a preset mask with other settings in it by mistake) and make sure that we get it right. Awesome job on all your videos I've seen so far!!
This technique is definitely easier than using a brush mask to subtract. Thanks!! At around 12:30 you were saying that on iPad you can’t control the mask overlay but you kinda can. While you can’t control the opacity, you do get to choose from blue, green, or red. As well as the typical white on black, etc. (I find the blue harder to see with skies and on BW photos). This is accessible at the top right when you tap the … when you are in masking mode.
Oh man! I totally missed the mask controls! Thank you so much for reminding me about that. I could have sworn we had some basic controls, but for some reason, I thought that we were limited to the default red color. Man, I wish I could upload an edited version with the correction. Still, I really appreciate you bringing it up!
Great video thank you. I’ve tried this on several images and it can create problems due to the very hard edge created. If you make big adjustments to the sky you get a significant halo around the edge. This can be reduced by adding a gradient filter and intersecting it with the sky. I wish Lightroom gave us the option to choose a feather around selections.
Agreed - a feather tool for selections would be awesome because, as you rightly mention, this trick can give you cleaner results, but they can also give the impression of halos when making aggressive edits to the sky.
Your gradient filter intersection sounds most interesting David. But I, too, asked myself the same question, even before I read the other 2 comment/questions. I'd really appreciate your input Brian - and David also!!
Brian, since you seem to know what David is talking about, could you please tell the rest of us how to do what he is suggesting, as I and others do not know what to do after intersecting the linear gradient filter with the sky. Thanks.
Love the preset tip! I think Adobe needs to add a slider so the user can adjust the amount of bleed over at the edges. A little bit can soften the edge and make it more natural, but often it is too much.
Funny enough, I find that inverting the original sky mask gives me a better foreground selection as opposed to inverting the "secret" sky mask. But, I need to do more tests with that.
but don't try to adjust both on the same image or all your edges will turn grey. What i've learned about Adobe over the past few years is that they really don't understand masking.
This is awesome! I bought the Landscape package to streamline the workflow. I started with film in the '60s and the darkroom experience was a "bit challenging" when it came to advanced print work. Lightroom came naturally to me but LR Classic has so many changes from version 6 that "the old dog" has to learn new tricks. LOL Keep the great videos coming!
very good tuto. I think that select sky has some gradient 25% opacity as Bren says and when you invert sky, you are selecting object, so the tree with some gradient and opacity cancelling each other, but I prefer explanation of Bren on inverted because not sure a "select subject" for trees would have done same results. I often use select sky and big rush with big feather and substract bleeding slowly with tip of external circle, as Matt Kloskowski often does (youtube substract edges,...)
I remember hearing you talk about this in a previous vid. Didn't write it down and lost sight of it. Now set up as a preset and tried on a few photos. very nice. Thanks - tim
Thanks Brian. I have been using this sky subtract-inverse method for months. But my thanks go to you for the preset idea. Implemented and already have saved several minutes as I edit a balloon fiestival pics. Thanks again!!!
I've been using this for a few weeks (perhaps because I saw your video or another) and it is great. I hadn't seen the preset idea before and it is very good time saving step. Thanks!
Wow Brian, thanks for sharing that with us, I was just editing some photos and was very unhappy that the mask was bleeding on to the non sky area, I was doing the subtract with a brush which was time consuming and nor very precise. This is a game changer, have subscribed to your channel, I am sure you have some great knowledge to impart. Big Thanks!
Thanks Brian. I have your preset collections but am only really getting into them as I move a lot of my pre-processing to ACR. Now I'm going to add this as a 'standalone' sky preset.
Ha, ha, you look so excited! :) I implemented this with some mountain photos, and it still spilled a bit into the snow, but it was soooo much better. Nice video and great explanation (as always). But so excited!
Thank you very much for the great video . I have always struggled to refine the mask with the brush. That is no longer necessary. Greetings from Germany. Thank you for showing on ipad too.
Thank you for this! Not really had any interest for photography the past years so I missed a lot of the masking in LR but I feel I need to get back on track now. I tried this on a picture I took a couple of years ago of a mountain in Norway, Lofoten, and I even fount the "bleed" useful to lift exposure to pop some details on the mountaintops.
Used this for most since your first video including it. If only Adobe offered this with a feather slider!! In some images with distant horizons it's not an advantage over the normal but the choice is there once you set up your adaptive preset. Your finding this must be up for some 'tip of the year'!
I love the idea of a feather control for the mask selection because I admit that, while this method often yields tighter results, they can sometimes have too hard of an edge. A feather control would alleviate that. Maybe one day!
The sky masking in Lr is great but, after using it for a while, I noticed the masks sometimes spilled over onto other elements of the photo. Thanks for sharing this masking technique, which is a drastic improvement over the default AND how to save it as a preset!
In my testing of the technique, it is better than the basic 'select sky mask' that LR classic provides. But not perfect. My subject is a marina with boats, sail boats, flags in the mid ground and trees/foliage, buildings in the background. The standard mask clearly includes the boats down to water line in the middle area, as well as covering the trees to water in the background. The improved (Better Sky Mask) reduces the mask of the boats and water in the middle area, as well as removing the mask from the trees and water in the background; however, there is still some mask covering the sail boat masts that is above the tree line from my POV. Thanks for the tip to add this to my User Presets, I will definitely make use of this in other images. Smile!
I've been using this, or trying to remember to, since I saw it in your earlier video. I did see someone else demonstrating this at about the same time, but don't recall who. I keep thinking that I need to create a preset for it to be able to do it in one click, but just haven't gotten around to it yet. Thanks again for sharing this tip.
I’d definitely love to know who else showed the trick. Not for any reason other than to give them a high five because it’s such an obscure thing to try. 😅
Thank you, Master! It’s interesting that one day, purely intuitively, I also began to highlight the sky in this way. But then one authoritative colleague told me to stop going crazy and take a break from work. And I forgot about this method. It’s very nice that I’m not the only one going crazy. Now I boldly return to this technique. And at the same time I subscribe to your channel. It's nice to not be alone in the chamber of "crazy" photographers. :)
Wow... man, I'm awed. I wish I'd seen this tutorial right when you released it, it would have saved me so much time when editing, among else, the polar light photos I took during a trip with Hurtigruten's MS Polarlys last March... On some photos, a big part of the snowy mountains got selected as well as the sky. Which I then subtracted from the mask using a brush. The technique you describe works so much better... while not still 100 % accurate, but hey, who cares... Thanks for this tutorial!! I definitely am a new subscriber. (That still prefers Lightroom Classic over Lightroom - old habits die hard).
Todd Dominey did a video about this technique about 2 or 3 months ago. Exactly the same technique. Still, great work around. More people need to share this. Like you said, hopefully Adobe pick up on this and improve the masking in future. Great video.
This is great Brian thankyou! Do you think this can be utilized for selecting the background of Milky Way images with trees to create a mask for adding blue hr foreground? Instead of doing it all manually? Or will the difference in contrast and dark scenes make it harder or not possible?
What an awesome find (idea) I will definitely use this as I’m often disappointed in the original selection. Will this also work if you selected subject and or foreground using the same method. I see someone commented and it does work on foreground and or subject. I’m definitely a new subscriber.
Great video and tip! Thanks!!!! Built my new preset right away. Quick question though.......what is your recommendation for picking up bits of sky between the branches that are missed by the sky mask? This is great for when there's overkill, but what about when the original mask misses bits?
Great tip, Brian. Thank you for sharing it. When you began by saying you had this secret technique, I thought, “Yah, I probably know it.” BUT, NO, it really is new and different, and I’d like to hear the story of how you discovered this.
Thanks so much! I honestly wish I remembered how I stumbled onto this. I first shared it in a video about six months ago, but it was part of a larger editing video and I only just thought that it’d be worth creating a dedicated one for the technique.
Hi Brian I just purchased your AI preset back. Is there a way they can be applied to both color and black and white images. Also I can't seem to find the preset tab in Lightroom Classic. I have presets on the left side of Develop module but it doesn't look like your interface. Thanks.
You're welcome, and you're correct! The technique works exactly the same in ACR and Classic, and I love that about Adobe. Say what you will, but they've done an oustanding job with providing feature parity here.
Hi Brian, Thank you so much for this informative video! Have you compared Adobe's sky selection feature in LR/LrC/ACR to the Photoshop version. If so, I would be interested in your assessment. Without using your LR technique, I find that PS does a better job of sky selection, but I still get the bleeding over into the foreground. Do you have a workflow for improving sky selections made in PS? If so, it would be great if you could make a short video. Thank you!
Hi Brian... I just stumbled across this video and found it very helpful! Thank you! I work in a Windows environment and use Lr Classic on my desktop. I THINK I saved the Better Sky Mask but now I cannot find it when I go to my next image and want to apply it. I open masking and there is nothing on my masking menu that has presets. No plus sign... not dots... The mask preset doesn't show up in my left menu bar either. Can you point me in the right direction??? Thanks so much
Thanks for sharing this, Brian. I hadn't even realized how much the default sky mask was bleeding into the rest of my photos until I used your home brew.
Hi Brian Your video is absolutely brilliant. Your step by step tutorial is so easy to follow. I am going to create a "better sky" preset and it will get plenty of use. A dumb question. I now have Lightroom on my new iMac and I wanted to know how you zoom in and out quickly so you can see the detail like you did to look at the branches up close.
Thank you! As for the zooming in, that is done in my screen recording app, Screenflow. With it, I can zoom in on a section of the video to make it easier for the viewer to see.
Do you know if you sync masks to another photo, then make changes on the new photo to the mask, if the changes you make sync back to the photo you originally synced the masks from? Im just wondering if I can sync sky or any other mask, but make changes on each photo I sync to and hopefully this does not sync back to every photo that has the original synced mask or does it? Hope that question makes sense. Thanks 🙏
very cool technique. I cannot implement the saving of the preset though as that icon you click on to save as a user preset does not exist for me. I am using Lightroom Classic on a PC, the version 13.0.1 release. My panels on the right really don't look the same as your do at all. Would love to figure this out but so far I don't know what needs to be changed in my set up of Lightroom to be able to save this technique as a user preset.
The preset panel is on the left on my version of LrC. Scroll up and down a bit in the left panels and you may find a section marked presets. Then click the + to add a new one.
You’re welcome! And you’re absolutely correct. While the technique does often provide better results, there are times when some minor adjustments are needed to dial the selection in.
I think what you have done is equivalent to the old film technique of unsharp masking. This would have the effect of cancelling the lower frequency areas ... the bleeds into the tree branches.
Ummm. I wonder if the initial mask is a deliberate choice by Adobe to allow for better blending of edits to the sky with the foreground or to elements of the image that would be lit by the sky. If you make significant changes to the tonal or colour values of the sky or even replace the sky with a totally different tonal/colour sky, you want some bleed onto the landscape to give it a natural look. Sky replacement in software like Luminar works exactly that way - tonal and colour values in the rest of the image are adjusted to match tonal and colour changes to the sky. I guess if you don't want that, then this option provides that. I tend to want that.
There definitely can be some merit to that. The default sky selection does tend to provide a nice feather, which would help blend editing. However, I like my method, especially when objects intersect in the sky. For example, with that tree photo that I showed, my method does a better job of not selecting the branches. Still, it's great to have various options for this task.
Agree with OldGirlPhotography. I think the bleed is intentional by Adobe for better blending. Do we really want a hard edge between the sky and objects? Our eyes don't see it that way. Light (and color) from the sky always falls on edges of objects.
I dont have the icon menu running vertically on the far right of the screen. it runs horizontally between the histogram and the basic panels. Also the preset icon is not included in the group. So how so i add the preset icon to the group of icons that includes crop, mask, red eye, etc. And how do i get it to display vertically rather than horizontally?
I have been doing this since you demonstrated it a couple months ago. It does provide a better sky mask- Thank you!! How did you figure this out? So much of it is counter intuitive.
Honestly, I wish I could tell you how I stumbled onto that. I know that it was a looong time ago, around when Adobe added Tone Curve support to masks. But, I don't recall what would have driven me to subtract the exact thing I just selected. Crazy, I know!
This technique is great for darkening a sky or deepening the cast. I can't figure out how to add clouds though, the way Photoshop does, though. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Great technique! Learned this in a landscape photography Channel a month ago. Whether that Channel learned it from you I do not know. I suppose the only time it will not work is if the sky is not 100% detected in the first mask.
Thanks for the great video. However, I have a problem. I am using the latest version of Lightroom Classic. When I try to create a Preset I click on the Preset + button but the dialogue box called "Create Preset" never comes up. How do I get to this? Thanks in advance for your help.
This is a great option, as someone who does alot of photos with trees and skies. But, wouldn't it work as well to intersect and select subject to subtract? Your sky selection then adds additional pixels around the subject.
Hmmmm… that’s an interesting idea that I’ll test out. I appreciate the suggestion. I like my version mostly because it’s easier for people to understand despite being counterintuitive. I’ve found that Intersect confused a lot of people. Also, I avoid red because I’m red/green colorblind and it’s hard for me to discern.
Brian, Great Trick! There still is a minor halo around the "non-sky," but it is minor. However, I just discovered a trick upon your trick! If you wish to invert the "Better Sky" to mask everything else, I found the results very muddy. However, if I subtracted the (standard) sky, the new mask (of everything that's not sky) was great. And, this also can be saved as a Preset. I called mine "Better Sky Better invert." I've never been into using Presets, but now I've got two I will use again and again. Thanks!!!
In your LRc, the Masking, Spot Healing Brush, RedEye, Crop Tool and your Preset tool are set up vertically like how ACR shows from PS. The same toolbar is shown horizontally on my LRc and the Preset button is not showing up. How do I set it? Btw I tried your trick on two photos, both of which had a lot of tree encroaching in the sky and the technique worked really well! Great tip!
Excellent video tutorial, Brian! I feel I've leaned something really valuable. Now, I have a question: do your presets packs also work in PS' latest version of ACR?
I think the reason why this combination works lies in the way the algebraic operation of subtracting one mask from another deals with the feathered areas. If Adobe were to give us a way to influence the feathering would mean even greater control over the selections...
@@brianmatiash well, a feather and a contrast slider. Basically, we just need the sliders from Select and Mask in Ps. This was requested years ago, but Adobe doesn't see the need.
Hi Brian. I've been trying this out on an image where a few tree tops stick up into the sky and the sky mask has done a poor job. Unfortunately your technique does not seem to work for me in LR Classic, v13.2. First, after subtracting the sky and clicking on the 3 dots, there isn't an "invert sky selection" command. I can go to the intersect command and click on sky, but the resulting mask is not very good or better than the initial mask. Does this only work in ACR?
It makes sense intuitively. The first selection applies a gradient/partial mask to the "bleed" areas, lets say 25% opacity. I think Adobe would argue that is a "feature" not a "bug", because they want a little bit of feathering between the sky and nearest foreground so that edits don't look too unnatural. So then when you select the second mask and invert it, you're inverting the 25% opacity parts of the image and subtracting that out so that you no longer have any "bleed". The foreground/ground parts subtract out at 100% opacity but that has no effect since your original sky mask didn't select it. So it makes sense why this technique works to get a cleaner sky selection, but likely you will have to apply other techniques like gradient intersection to make the transition from sky to ground less jarring.
Kudos for finding this technique, you have another subscriber.
Thanks Brian! I’ve also had good luck with Select Sky / Intersect with Select Sky (after clicking on 3 dots on right hand side).
Thanks Brian. I just used this technique using “Subject” instead of sky for birds in flight. It works a lot better especially when trying to clean up the mask between the tips of the feathers. Thanks again for your tutorials.
Oh wow - that’s great to know! Thank you for sharing that, Fred!
I wonder if it will work on frizzy hair(?) When subject is selected.
Wow, fantastic, I watched a few of your great videos; You got a new subscriber; Happy New Year 😊
Brian, I learned this from you a while back. Let's stop telling other people so we can pretend we just have better masking skills.😎
😂😂😂😂
Thanks. If you Intersect mask with "select sky" works too. And save one step.
That’s a great point because Intersect is basically just Subtract + Invert. Good call!
Thanks!
Thank you!!
works on LR classic too (the preset-section is on the left side in a panel, but can be saved/used as all other presets to set the mask on any picture)
You've taken the bar for teaching online and shot it to the moon. Well done. You think of everything and everywhere someone might stray off the teaching (i.e. making a preset mask with other settings in it by mistake) and make sure that we get it right. Awesome job on all your videos I've seen so far!!
Thank you so much for this exceptionally kind compliment! That really means a lot… and it makes the effort all the more worth it. Rock on, my friend!
This technique is definitely easier than using a brush mask to subtract. Thanks!!
At around 12:30 you were saying that on iPad you can’t control the mask overlay but you kinda can. While you can’t control the opacity, you do get to choose from blue, green, or red. As well as the typical white on black, etc. (I find the blue harder to see with skies and on BW photos). This is accessible at the top right when you tap the … when you are in masking mode.
Oh man! I totally missed the mask controls! Thank you so much for reminding me about that. I could have sworn we had some basic controls, but for some reason, I thought that we were limited to the default red color. Man, I wish I could upload an edited version with the correction.
Still, I really appreciate you bringing it up!
Nice Brian. I heard about you from Anthony Morganti. He directed his following to your channel to see how this is done. Keep experimenting.
@@JimEmbury Anthony is such a great guy. I messaged him a few weeks ago to thank him for the nice gesture. And welcome to my channel, Jim!
Great video thank you. I’ve tried this on several images and it can create problems due to the very hard edge created. If you make big adjustments to the sky you get a significant halo around the edge. This can be reduced by adding a gradient filter and intersecting it with the sky. I wish Lightroom gave us the option to choose a feather around selections.
Agreed - a feather tool for selections would be awesome because, as you rightly mention, this trick can give you cleaner results, but they can also give the impression of halos when making aggressive edits to the sky.
what action do you take on the gradient filter once it is intersected with the sky to remove those sky-mask bleedovers?
David, I want to also repeat delgriffith's question: what do you do after you intersect the linear gradient filter? Please do respond.
Your gradient filter intersection sounds most interesting David. But I, too, asked myself the same question, even before I read the other 2 comment/questions. I'd really appreciate your input Brian - and David also!!
Brian, since you seem to know what David is talking about, could you please tell the rest of us how to do what he is suggesting, as I and others do not know what to do after intersecting the linear gradient filter with the sky. Thanks.
Great tip, Brian. Thanks for that. That will save having to clean up the masking.
My pleasure and happy to help, Eric!
This was a fantastic video and tip! I've always thought the sky selection was a bit flawed in Lightroom, so thank you very much! 😊
You're very welcome!
Super Brian!!
De beste presentaties die ooit in Photoshop zijn gemaakt!
I remember seeing this on that video you mentioned and have been doing it ever since. It’s so awesome!! Thanks!!
Sweet! And you’re most welcome!
Love the preset tip! I think Adobe needs to add a slider so the user can adjust the amount of bleed over at the edges. A little bit can soften the edge and make it more natural, but often it is too much.
thanks for this. It might be obvious to everyone but if you invert the better sky mask you get a "better foreground" mask
Funny enough, I find that inverting the original sky mask gives me a better foreground selection as opposed to inverting the "secret" sky mask. But, I need to do more tests with that.
but don't try to adjust both on the same image or all your edges will turn grey. What i've learned about Adobe over the past few years is that they really don't understand masking.
This is awesome! I bought the Landscape package to streamline the workflow. I started with film in the '60s and the darkroom experience was a "bit challenging" when it came to advanced print work. Lightroom came naturally to me but LR Classic has so many changes from version 6 that "the old dog" has to learn new tricks. LOL Keep the great videos coming!
Great tip Brian - I've certainly not seen anyone discussing this technique elsewhere.
very good tuto. I think that select sky has some gradient 25% opacity as Bren says and when you invert sky, you are selecting object, so the tree with some gradient and opacity cancelling each other, but I prefer explanation of Bren on inverted because not sure a "select subject" for trees would have done same results. I often use select sky and big rush with big feather and substract bleeding slowly with tip of external circle, as Matt Kloskowski often does (youtube substract edges,...)
Amazing! Thank you Brian for this much needed video.💯
You’re most welcome, Caroline!
Great find. It is really hard to see when using a blue mask. I always use red for a sky mask. This works for more than just the sky mask.
I remember hearing you talk about this in a previous vid. Didn't write it down and lost sight of it. Now set up as a preset and tried on a few photos. very nice. Thanks - tim
I definitely saw you mention this in that other video a long time ago and have been using it since,
thank you!
I appreciate that!
Thanks Brian. I have been using this sky subtract-inverse method for months. But my thanks go to you for the preset idea. Implemented and already have saved several minutes as I edit a balloon fiestival pics. Thanks again!!!
Awesome.... Didn't realise this saved as a present actually creates the same quality mask on different images...❤
This guy is absolute gold!😊
This is one of the best tips about masking I have ever seen. Thanks for sharing this!👍
I've been using this for a few weeks (perhaps because I saw your video or another) and it is great. I hadn't seen the preset idea before and it is very good time saving step. Thanks!
My pleasure! And yeah, I love using the preset to make that selection.
Such a great trick and even better that I can use it in LR mobile on the iPad. Super stoked. Thanks man!
Brilliant tutorial thanks! I even tried your method on portrait hair and eyes and it is so much better than the first pass with AI.
Wow Brian, thanks for sharing that with us, I was just editing some photos and was very unhappy that the mask was bleeding on to the non sky area, I was doing the subtract with a brush which was time consuming and nor very precise. This is a game changer, have subscribed to your channel, I am sure you have some great knowledge to impart. Big Thanks!
Thank you for sharing an excellent technique!!!! Nothing is perfect, but another tool in the sky selection box.
Indeed Brian, I have never seen anyone coming up with this approach. And I did watch it in your previous videos. Well done and much obliged...
Thank you! I only wish I remember how I actually stumbled onto it, because by all rights, it’s totally unintuitive. 😂
Thanks Brian. I have your preset collections but am only really getting into them as I move a lot of my pre-processing to ACR. Now I'm going to add this as a 'standalone' sky preset.
That’s awesome! Thank you so much, Steve!
Thankyou I have made the preset for both the sky and the inverted version for the landscapeand it works brilliantly.
It works! Many thanks for sharing, this is a great help indeed.
You're welcome!
Its a great tip as long as you like the sky you have in the image. Otherwise, Photoshop does the replace sky very nicely. :) Thanks much!
Ha, ha, you look so excited! :) I implemented this with some mountain photos, and it still spilled a bit into the snow, but it was soooo much better. Nice video and great explanation (as always). But so excited!
Thank you! Any suggestions for removing halos you get on edges in LR?
Thank you very much for the great video . I have always struggled to refine the mask with the brush. That is no longer necessary. Greetings from Germany. Thank you for showing on ipad too.
Thank you for this! Not really had any interest for photography the past years so I missed a lot of the masking in LR but I feel I need to get back on track now. I tried this on a picture I took a couple of years ago of a mountain in Norway, Lofoten, and I even fount the "bleed" useful to lift exposure to pop some details on the mountaintops.
That was really inovative. As a relative newbie, need to watch a few times. I'll certainly go for it. Thanks for posting and sharing. kudos to you.
Happy to help! My recommendation is to create a preset the way I showed in the video. That way, you can apply the technique in a single click.
Just checked out your AI preset pack with your accompanied video. "WoW" Order will be on its way shortly.@@brianmatiash
Used this for most since your first video including it. If only Adobe offered this with a feather slider!! In some images with distant horizons it's not an advantage over the normal but the choice is there once you set up your adaptive preset. Your finding this must be up for some 'tip of the year'!
I love the idea of a feather control for the mask selection because I admit that, while this method often yields tighter results, they can sometimes have too hard of an edge. A feather control would alleviate that. Maybe one day!
we've been begging for a refine mask tool since day one, but they're not interested in implementing for some reason.
The sky masking in Lr is great but, after using it for a while, I noticed the masks sometimes spilled over onto other elements of the photo. Thanks for sharing this masking technique, which is a drastic improvement over the default AND how to save it as a preset!
In my testing of the technique, it is better than the basic 'select sky mask' that LR classic provides. But not perfect. My subject is a marina with boats, sail boats, flags in the mid ground and trees/foliage, buildings in the background. The standard mask clearly includes the boats down to water line in the middle area, as well as covering the trees to water in the background. The improved (Better Sky Mask) reduces the mask of the boats and water in the middle area, as well as removing the mask from the trees and water in the background; however, there is still some mask covering the sail boat masts that is above the tree line from my POV. Thanks for the tip to add this to my User Presets, I will definitely make use of this in other images. Smile!
This is a brilliant trick. Thanks so much for sharing it.
Wow, really cool idea! Thanks!
You’re welcome!
Great Brian, many thanks for sharing this technique.
It also works to separate a subject from the background more accurately. 🙏🏽
I've been using this, or trying to remember to, since I saw it in your earlier video. I did see someone else demonstrating this at about the same time, but don't recall who. I keep thinking that I need to create a preset for it to be able to do it in one click, but just haven't gotten around to it yet. Thanks again for sharing this tip.
I’d definitely love to know who else showed the trick. Not for any reason other than to give them a high five because it’s such an obscure thing to try. 😅
Great thx so much this certainly makes masking the sky a lot easier, can you use this for masking items?
Thank you, Master!
It’s interesting that one day, purely intuitively, I also began to highlight the sky in this way. But then one authoritative colleague told me to stop going crazy and take a break from work. And I forgot about this method. It’s very nice that I’m not the only one going crazy. Now I boldly return to this technique. And at the same time I subscribe to your channel. It's nice to not be alone in the chamber of "crazy" photographers. :)
Wow... man, I'm awed. I wish I'd seen this tutorial right when you released it, it would have saved me so much time when editing, among else, the polar light photos I took during a trip with Hurtigruten's MS Polarlys last March... On some photos, a big part of the snowy mountains got selected as well as the sky. Which I then subtracted from the mask using a brush.
The technique you describe works so much better... while not still 100 % accurate, but hey, who cares... Thanks for this tutorial!!
I definitely am a new subscriber.
(That still prefers Lightroom Classic over Lightroom - old habits die hard).
Todd Dominey did a video about this technique about 2 or 3 months ago. Exactly the same technique. Still, great work around. More people need to share this. Like you said, hopefully Adobe pick up on this and improve the masking in future. Great video.
Thanks for this Brian, I'm finding it rather useful already.
This is great Brian thankyou! Do you think this can be utilized for selecting the background of Milky Way images with trees to create a mask for adding blue hr foreground? Instead of doing it all manually? Or will the difference in contrast and dark scenes make it harder or not possible?
Wow! Very helpful, learned so much - didn't know I could make mask presets. Thanks!
What an awesome find (idea) I will definitely use this as I’m often disappointed in the original selection. Will this also work if you selected subject and or foreground using the same method. I see someone commented and it does work on foreground and or subject. I’m definitely a new subscriber.
Great video and tip! Thanks!!!! Built my new preset right away. Quick question though.......what is your recommendation for picking up bits of sky between the branches that are missed by the sky mask? This is great for when there's overkill, but what about when the original mask misses bits?
Great tip, Brian. Thank you for sharing it. When you began by saying you had this secret technique, I thought, “Yah, I probably know it.” BUT, NO, it really is new and different, and I’d like to hear the story of how you discovered this.
Thanks so much! I honestly wish I remembered how I stumbled onto this. I first shared it in a video about six months ago, but it was part of a larger editing video and I only just thought that it’d be worth creating a dedicated one for the technique.
Great video, can’t wait to try this
Hi Brian
I just purchased your AI preset back. Is there a way they can be applied to both color and black and white images. Also I can't seem to find the preset tab in Lightroom Classic. I have presets on the left side of Develop module but it doesn't look like your interface. Thanks.
Wow, what a great tip, thank you Brian!
Thanks Brian, and for those who don't use Lightroom this also works in Camera Raw 😁
You're welcome, and you're correct! The technique works exactly the same in ACR and Classic, and I love that about Adobe. Say what you will, but they've done an oustanding job with providing feature parity here.
Hi Brian, Thank you so much for this informative video! Have you compared Adobe's sky selection feature in LR/LrC/ACR to the Photoshop version. If so, I would be interested in your assessment. Without using your LR technique, I find that PS does a better job of sky selection, but I still get the bleeding over into the foreground. Do you have a workflow for improving sky selections made in PS? If so, it would be great if you could make a short video. Thank you!
Excellent info here Brian.
Hi Brian... I just stumbled across this video and found it very helpful! Thank you! I work in a Windows environment and use Lr Classic on my desktop. I THINK I saved the Better Sky Mask but now I cannot find it when I go to my next image and want to apply it. I open masking and there is nothing on my masking menu that has presets. No plus sign... not dots... The mask preset doesn't show up in my left menu bar either. Can you point me in the right direction??? Thanks so much
Great tutorial and easy to follow although I can’t seem to find a way to save the mask as a preset when using Lightroom mobile.
Touch the 3 dots on the upper right…
@@FrancescoBorsotti
Thanks for sharing this, Brian. I hadn't even realized how much the default sky mask was bleeding into the rest of my photos until I used your home brew.
Yeah, it’s crazy how much spill I’d get. I just wish I could have a feather control, because I wouldn’t mind have a tiny bit of transition.
@@brianmatiash You'll find a way.
I’ll definitely try to find some magic to make it happen. 👍🏼
Thank you Brian. Always awesome. Does this work for people when selecting around hair. I tried this bet it would not work am I doing something wrong?
Hi Brian
Your video is absolutely brilliant. Your step by step tutorial is so easy to follow. I am going to create a "better sky" preset and it will get plenty of use.
A dumb question. I now have Lightroom on my new iMac and I wanted to know how you zoom in and out quickly so you can see the detail like you did to look at the branches up close.
Thank you! As for the zooming in, that is done in my screen recording app, Screenflow. With it, I can zoom in on a section of the video to make it easier for the viewer to see.
Do you know if you sync masks to another photo, then make changes on the new photo to the mask, if the changes you make sync back to the photo you originally synced the masks from? Im just wondering if I can sync sky or any other mask, but make changes on each photo I sync to and hopefully this does not sync back to every photo that has the original synced mask or does it? Hope that question makes sense. Thanks 🙏
Awesome video and tutorial! Subscribed!
very cool technique. I cannot implement the saving of the preset though as that icon you click on to save as a user preset does not exist for me. I am using Lightroom Classic on a PC, the version 13.0.1 release. My panels on the right really don't look the same as your do at all. Would love to figure this out but so far I don't know what needs to be changed in my set up of Lightroom to be able to save this technique as a user preset.
The preset panel is on the left on my version of LrC. Scroll up and down a bit in the left panels and you may find a section marked presets. Then click the + to add a new one.
Could you do a sunset adjustments as my sun is either blown out or has a ring around out please
Fantastic tutorials
Thank you so much for sharing
🎉❤❤
Thanks great tip, I do find however it is not perfect I find there are still areas that need to be refined
You’re welcome! And you’re absolutely correct. While the technique does often provide better results, there are times when some minor adjustments are needed to dial the selection in.
I think what you have done is equivalent to the old film technique of unsharp masking. This would have the effect of cancelling the lower frequency areas ... the bleeds into the tree branches.
great video, Brian. Thank You !
Amazing! And spreding very fast!
Ummm. I wonder if the initial mask is a deliberate choice by Adobe to allow for better blending of edits to the sky with the foreground or to elements of the image that would be lit by the sky. If you make significant changes to the tonal or colour values of the sky or even replace the sky with a totally different tonal/colour sky, you want some bleed onto the landscape to give it a natural look. Sky replacement in software like Luminar works exactly that way - tonal and colour values in the rest of the image are adjusted to match tonal and colour changes to the sky. I guess if you don't want that, then this option provides that. I tend to want that.
There definitely can be some merit to that. The default sky selection does tend to provide a nice feather, which would help blend editing. However, I like my method, especially when objects intersect in the sky. For example, with that tree photo that I showed, my method does a better job of not selecting the branches. Still, it's great to have various options for this task.
Agree with OldGirlPhotography. I think the bleed is intentional by Adobe for better blending. Do we really want a hard edge between the sky and objects? Our eyes don't see it that way. Light (and color) from the sky always falls on edges of objects.
I dont have the icon menu running vertically on the far right of the screen. it runs horizontally between the histogram and the basic panels. Also the preset icon is not included in the group. So how so i add the preset icon to the group of icons that includes crop, mask, red eye, etc. And how do i get it to display vertically rather than horizontally?
Great video, thank you.
You’re very welcome!
I have been doing this since you demonstrated it a couple months ago. It does provide a better sky mask- Thank you!! How did you figure this out? So much of it is counter intuitive.
Honestly, I wish I could tell you how I stumbled onto that. I know that it was a looong time ago, around when Adobe added Tone Curve support to masks. But, I don't recall what would have driven me to subtract the exact thing I just selected. Crazy, I know!
Come to think of it, I have not tried this with select subject or background. My guess is it should work similarly.
This technique is great for darkening a sky or deepening the cast. I can't figure out how to add clouds though, the way Photoshop does, though. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Brilliant! Thank you for sharing
Great technique! Learned this in a landscape photography Channel a month ago. Whether that Channel learned it from you I do not know. I suppose the only time it will not work is if the sky is not 100% detected in the first mask.
Thanks for the great video. However, I have a problem. I am using the latest version of Lightroom Classic. When I try to create a Preset I click on the Preset + button but the dialogue box called "Create Preset" never comes up. How do I get to this? Thanks in advance for your help.
Good catch Brian!!
This is a great option, as someone who does alot of photos with trees and skies. But, wouldn't it work as well to intersect and select subject to subtract? Your sky selection then adds additional pixels around the subject.
PS. A red mask would illustrate your point much better on a blue sky IMHO. 😮
Hmmmm… that’s an interesting idea that I’ll test out. I appreciate the suggestion. I like my version mostly because it’s easier for people to understand despite being counterintuitive. I’ve found that Intersect confused a lot of people.
Also, I avoid red because I’m red/green colorblind and it’s hard for me to discern.
Brian, Great Trick! There still is a minor halo around the "non-sky," but it is minor.
However, I just discovered a trick upon your trick! If you wish to invert the "Better Sky" to mask everything else, I found the results very muddy. However, if I subtracted the (standard) sky, the new mask (of everything that's not sky) was great. And, this also can be saved as a Preset. I called mine "Better Sky Better invert."
I've never been into using Presets, but now I've got two I will use again and again. Thanks!!!
In your LRc, the Masking, Spot Healing Brush, RedEye, Crop Tool and your Preset tool are set up vertically like how ACR shows from PS. The same toolbar is shown horizontally on my LRc and the Preset button is not showing up. How do I set it? Btw I tried your trick on two photos, both of which had a lot of tree encroaching in the sky and the technique worked really well! Great tip!
Just a quick follow up. I was able to save my own AI sky preset. :)
Thanks great editing skills
Wow 🤩 this is VERY GOOD ❤
Brian so if I make a preset as you show, when I apply it and then apply, say another stylized preset, will the sky mask be blown away?
Great tip, thanks. What are you using in the video, the panel layouts don't look like my version of Lightroom Classic 13.0.1.
Excellent video tutorial, Brian! I feel I've leaned something really valuable. Now, I have a question: do your presets packs also work in PS' latest version of ACR?
Thank you!
As for the presets, they do work in the latest version of PS ACR. No issues there. 👍🏼
Do the packs provide installation instructions specifically for PS ACR?
Yup! I include video instructions for Lightroom and ACR.
I think the reason why this combination works lies in the way the algebraic operation of subtracting one mask from another deals with the feathered areas. If Adobe were to give us a way to influence the feathering would mean even greater control over the selections...
Agreed 100%. A feather control would be most welcome.
@@brianmatiash well, a feather and a contrast slider. Basically, we just need the sliders from Select and Mask in Ps. This was requested years ago, but Adobe doesn't see the need.
Wonderful job, preset saved and tried on a few images and it works very well
That's great to hear, Randy! Thank you!
Hi Brian. I've been trying this out on an image where a few tree tops stick up into the sky and the sky mask has done a poor job. Unfortunately your technique does not seem to work for me in LR Classic, v13.2. First, after subtracting the sky and clicking on the 3 dots, there isn't an "invert sky selection" command. I can go to the intersect command and click on sky, but the resulting mask is not very good or better than the initial mask. Does this only work in ACR?