It absolutely blows me away that this was basically all decided on tumblr, I remember it happening (from the sidelines as a bisexual trans guy), it was barely more than 5 years ago and now this flag is the most recognisable lesbian flag in mainstream culture? And yet tumblr is considered a punchline that only contributed cringe to society!
Honestly yeah people don't realize how much culture comes from Tumblr. Maybe I'm talking nonsense but it seems like Tumblr is a vanguard of internet humor in some ways
I remember in ~2015 there was a subset of ace discourse focused on targeting etsy stores whose pride merch featured ace flag designs but not lesbian flag ones. This is already pretty ridiculous and ignorant to history, but it's even funnier when you take into account that the ace flag was created in 2010! So any artist with a pride collection more than like, a year old, got harassed for "excluding" a flag that *did not even exist* at the time of the art's creation. I guess it's not surprising the people who attacked aces under the guise of "defending lesbians" all turned out to be huge TERFs, lol
Even the pan flag originated from tumblr (I think.) Tumblr honestly used to be a huge queer hub, it was the first place where feminism and pro trans rights were really BIG on a single platform imo.. ...And then the porn ban happened lmao.
random people on tumblr have more influence over politics than you think considering how made up gender stuff has been popularized and seen as fact now
one reason why the labrys flag isn’t used is that the black triangle primarily was used to oppress romani women during the holocaust, while lesbians were a minority. some folk are uncomfortable with it being used for lesbians and instead have a version without the triangle.
@@shinypaintf588 I was thinking a violet violet (for Sappho's crowns of violets) against a dark purple background. Simple Japanese flower motif style. I could do that easily. Then I remembered that I am a man - dammit.
@@xejune That is a pansy, which is in the viola genus like the violet but has a quite different gay connotation. Similar execution to what I was thinking, you are right.
The Black triangle was documented as "antisocial" which would cover anyone who wasn't any of the other groups the National Socialist Party labeled as a second class citizen, There's a Blue triangle for Political prisoners as well as five other groups including the pink triangle we know for Men loving men and transgender women. If someone was one of those groups along with being Jewish they would have a triangle in reverse added to form the star of David. So, in short, most of these labels aren't really direct but also I don't like the idea of limiting ourselves to the labels given by an empire that no longer exists but also the iconography of it is illegal in much of Europe. I'm not saying no one can reclaim these symbols, but other than the star of David, none of these symbols are exclusive to one group.
what's even funnier than the sims 4 having 3 lesbian flags is WHY they did that. when they first released their pride content, they didn't include any of the lesbian flags, which people naturally got pretty steamed about. the devs had to apologize, and i guess no one at EA could tell which of the lesbian flags they should put in to make people less mad, so they just put in all three
About the simplified orange flag, I believe that it was simplified in order to make the manufacturing of lesbian-related merchandise for celebrating pride easier and not as expensive. In any case, I'm just glad that the simplified version was made as an equal-standing alternative.
Yes, lots of materials are difficult or impossible to source in that many specific colours! Sock Dreams can't make socks with that design because they can't get one kind of sock yarn in 6 different shades of pink.
Agreed 100%. I'm glad too. lol If it makes things easier and less expensive, then who am I to complain? Besides, I think it looks pretty. I feel proud of it.
I love how you talk to your audience with the assumption that we’re all lesbians. It’s like I’m in the wrong zoom and no one has kicked me out yet. Update: oops, I’m trans. The not being a lesbian statement is invalid.
whyd you have to go and make things so complicated? i see the way youre acting like youre somebody else. gets me frustrated. simply admit that i am the funniest and greatest and sm*rtest and coolest and strongest yout*ber of all time! admit it, dear she
@@AxxLAfriku bruh you're literally appearing in nearly every UA-cam comment section I've seen. If people don't like your content they don't like it, just drop it and move on.
Eventually someone's just going to make a converse onesey and t̴h̸e̸n̴ ̶Za̸l̶g̴o̵ ̷w̷i̷l̵l̵ ̷a̷w̶a̵k̷e̵n̵ a̷̡̜̘̺̤̰̮̦͙̾̈́̒͜͝n̷̡̢̧̫̪̯̰̦̹͔̗̱̋͛̋̀̾̓̒̿̑͒ͅḑ̶̧̘͔͚͕̪͔̺̥̱̗̰̖͚̿̿̅̈́̾̐́̊̎͒̈́́̉͠ͅͅ ̸̯̰̬̥̞̹̮̻̮̝͍̙͈͙͓̦̮̄̾̃͗̈̕c̵̛͖̺̠̹̺̫̟̳͇̘̐͊̐̎̉̽̽̎̅͑͂̑ͅo̵̡̤̭̥̞̯̟̗̥͉̤͓̦̙͖̊͝n̴̨̧̠̭͕̖̩̰͓͉͙̹̞̤͇͎̽̎̓̓͛͂̏͒̃̿͘͝͠š̷̡̧̡͙͙̖̙̗͈̣̬͉̱̠͝ủ̶͈̗̞̼͎̪̳̪͉͖̙̉͐̓̇́͝ͅm̵̜͖̻̘͖̽͗̇̽̍̌̈̔͐͐ȩ̵̢̨̨̛̼̱̹͔̙̗͖̹̪͍͇̫͖̊͒̾̾̈́͑̌͗̐̉̎̚̕ ̴̡̧̫̫͍͕͈̰̣̻͙̘̈́͛̉̃͒̈́͗̈́͊̃̈́́͛̕̚͜ͅt̴̨̢̳̫̹͎͖̜̣͇̗̓̐͌̇̃̔͛̀͛̎͝͠ͅḩ̶̧̡̧̳̣͉̪͓̩̹̼̝̭͍̖̀̎͋̓̅̔̿͊͐̂̈́͌̆̎͘̚é̸̛̜̺̦̲̘̽̉̎̽̆̾͒̂̀̍̍͘̕͝͝ ̴̛̘͚̺̤̦̈́̎̎͊̌̔͗̈̅̅̿͘m̷̰̜̼̮̪͗̊i̸̝̠̩̯̟̘͊͌ͅn̷̡̫͕͔̟̗̤̼̭̼͓͚̞̯̼̈͂̒͂̿̈̍̍̓̄̽̚̕ͅḓ̸̮͙͔̼̰̾̍͛̑͂̒̚͘͜͜ͅͅş̴̛̛͍̝̠̼̯̜̤̭̽͗͆̌͆͛͛̈́͆̔͋ͅ ̴͍͎͈̫̙̝̥͈̋͗̍̋̈́̈́̂̾͝͝o̴̫̦̰̝̗͎̭̠̖̰͍̲͑̅̍́̽̓͜f̵̛͉̲̖͔͓̯͖̪̯͚͗̂̈́́̆̅̓̋͑̇̕͜ ̴̨̥̆̆̓͛̀̚͝͠ț̴͕̠͖̱̮̗̪̫̝̠͖͙̭̄͛̈́̀ͅh̴̡̯̪̥̐̈́̍̈́͑̓͗͛͆͌͋̒̓̕͘͠ȩ̷̢̡͔̝̼̝̦͎͍̟̐̓̍̊̃͝͠ ̵̧͈̪̪̮̰̫͉̱̫͉̹̼͚̎͆̌͑̋̃̔͜͠ẁ̷̹̖̤͕̬̱̽ỏ̷̭͚͆̂̌̾̓͠r̴̢̝̩̬̬̜̠̩̂͛͂̒̉̈̌̑̋̕ͅl̵̻͉̬̥̞͕̟̈͋̀̀̌̍̈̀̈̎́̈́̕͘̕͝͝d̸̬͎̙̟͙̰͎͓͕̪͇̤̘̄̐͗̔̎͐͑.̵̛̣͎̰͈̤͓̳͎̝̠̻̦͖͈̈́̈́̾̾̓̄́͑́̀
I'm SO glad to hear you addressing the attitude some wlw have where they think being feminine is somehow "better" than being gender noncomforming. Even on tiktok nowadays I still see stuff from sapphics performatively trying to distance themselves from butches/studs/gnc women and it annoys the hell out of me. If i have to see "I'm not like THOSE mannish lesbians!" one more time...
There's also the fact that the Labrys flag, nice and well intentioned as it is, conflates the class and ethnic struggles of Nazi Germany with the sexual struggles of the lesbian community in Nazi Germany. The black triangle was largely used in asocials, yes, and some lesbian women definitely were put in that category, however the bulk of people with the badge were Roma and Sinti populations, beggars and alcoholics were also tagged a huge part of the "taggings". It's generally not a good idea to use reclaimed nazi symbols, the pink triangle being exceptional because it was Jewish gay men kickstarting the reclaiming. There's still debate on nazi symbolism out there, and how much is it worth reclaiming, and even if you can reclaim it at all, and we should, first and foremost, listen to Jewish and Romani people, because they suffered through the Holocaust as ethnic communities. It was a lot of grandmothers, parents and the such being condemned to horrible violations that the human mind can't even really process
@@ussinussinongawd516 They are also a Romani people, loosely speaking, but it's a little more complicated than that. I also think their numbers may have been particularly decimated during the Holocaust :-( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinti
thank you! i was about to comment about the black triangle and stuff, but i didn't know how to explain it properly since i'm neither jewish, romani, or a lesbian lol. i'm glad to see many comments talking about this though, i feel like it's a very important conversation
HEY. I WAS ON TUMBLR FOR LITERALLY ALL OF THIS HISTORY. HERE'S WHY THE SIMPLIFIED FLAG BECAME A THING: Extremely shortly after the orange flag won a couple of those surveys as the defacto lesbian flag, a lot of Tumblr users started really pestering people who offered pride merchandise to offer stuff with the lesbian flag. Totally understandable, everyone wants to feel represented, and the community just seemed to settle on the issue. The only issue was that this was a massive pain in the ass for a lot of crafters. Think about anything fabric that isn't just screen printed: knitting, sewing, whatever. It was EXTREMELY difficult to expect someone to be able to access 7 varying shades of pink (as some sects of the lesbian community were pushing for the flag not to be changed at all). Changing the flag to 3 different shades of orange, 3 different pinks, and white was a bit easier, but not by much. The simplified flag, much like how the rainbow pride flag lost its pink and turquoise stripes because of the lack of accessibility to those colored fabrics, was made to make it easier for crafters to replicate. Just two different oranges and two different pinks is much more reasonable, most yarns or minky suppliers will have like, a pumpkin orange and a dusty orange, or a hot pink and baby pink. Another added benefit to the simplified flag is the further separation away from the problematic origins of the lipstick flag. Fun fact: the lipstick flag is ALSO plagiarized from the freaking COUGAR PRIDE FLAG. Look it up! The cougar pride flag showed up online two years before the lipstick lesbian flag and it's got the same amount of stripes and that tacky ass lipstick stamp. So yeah. There's that too! I always find that part so funny.
and the end result is so pretty too! like, I'm not even a lesbian/sapphic person but if i were I'd love having that flag represent me. there's a pretty much general consensus to call it the sunset flag too which is such a nice name for it!
Yeah, it’s really interesting of how the best looking or iconic flags are often formed out of the combination of different elements/groups/peoples/regions of a nation (like how the UK is basically just stacking flags on top of each other, the French Flag being the colors of Paris with the white symbol of France and royalty smushed between them, etc etc.)
honestly stuff like the labris flag makes me wish more pride flags had fun, not-just-stripey designs. i think i saw a tumblr post ages ago with a whole bunch of other weaponry-based flags for various different sexualities and we should bring that energy back (edit: but like obvsly not the terfy shit)
yeah i think lot of the pride flags being just horizontal stripes is so boring. of the widely accepted flags i think only the intersex and straight ally flags do SOMETHING interesting with shapes. at least the bi flag has stripes of differing thickness
I think the reason pride flags (and really most flags in general) are very simplified is because the point of them is to rally a bunch of different people of very different backgrounds and cultures into one banner, and when you want to that the more elaborate you get the more people you’re gonna alienate, that’s the nature of aesthetics. Stripes of colors are simple, readable and therefore people are less likely to strongly dislike it. Also specific symbols like the black triangle and battle axe often change meanings very quickly and thus don’t age very well (colors also carry implications but they tend to have more longevity).
From a graphic design standpoint, simple flags are better. They are easy to replicate, easily identifiable and it’s easier to make icons of them (hence why a lot of graphic designers/artists in general hate the “progressive pride flag”). From just a fun stand point, I fully agree that adding stuff to flags would make them a lot more fun to have and they can add meanings that simple shapes can’t.
"You're stupid" is a stance! I understand that it is hard to be eloquent about the topic, but I, as a trans woman interested in women, really appreciate you speaking out on it. Thanks!
@@dalkay there’s a small minority of (probably fake) trans women online who have tried to course lesbians into like penis or neovaginas. As long as these people exist, there’s going to be defensive lesbians so.
Older queer here, love seeing this history. I also really appreciate how you talked about conventional femininity vs everything else in the community. I've been pressured within the community to be & to be attracted to conventionally femininity, and it's so refreshing to hear others discuss this pervasive dynamic.
I just want to say, I appreciate you mentioning MOGAI without turning it into a joke, because as someone who was always very gnc and non-binary I got a lotttt of shit in 2015-2016 for simply wanting to feel more represented in the community. I feel like, despite the flaws it had, MOGAI was not as bad as people like to claim, and often it’s used as an excuse to be shitty. Fantastic video though! I remember all this happening. Wild times.
@@ayl9261 true #GirllBoss is too busy running her mlm to actually date man and learn being good at a relationship so she just practices on hee female friends until the say where she needs to have a husband comes #girlBossGrind
@@pattheplanter for some time it was usually just like some horizontal black and white stripes, so similar energy. very recently i've seen them use a diagonal half blue/indigo and half pink/magenta design with locking gender symbols slapped on top more so like, maaaaayyybe 1% more creative lol. i think beige would suit better
It's so wild the orange lesbian flag is so recent. It *feels* like it's been around longer. Other than the rainbow flag, none of the most prominent LGBT+ flags are that old, but most of them are still from a decade or two ago, best I can tell. And they all took some time to gain prominence. A design going from creation to being the default symbol in just 3 years is kinda weird and kinda cool.
Now let's hope the designer doesn't turn out to have been a bigot. That's happened with a handful of pride flags, unfortunately--since so many are designed by random internet users.
i still remember the days where someone edited the xkcd comic to say "i can't believe there are 15 lesbian flags! I'm going to make a single standard flag" *3 months later* "I can't believe there are 16 lesbian flags!" and now there is in fact a standard. who knew it could happen.
I remember the lesbian flag discourse coming out on the tail end of ace/aro discourse on tumblr and oof, that was a bad time. It usually resulted in merch sellers and pride artists and even that "human" t shirt with different flags in the letters being attacked because how dare you include a flag for asexual people, but not lesbians!! (Other comments have gone over it already, but hesitancy to use the lipstick lesbian flag in physical merchandise was likely due difficulties in producing all those shades of pink rather than malicious homophobic intent.) So as an asexual lesbian I'm glad we have the current flag and that it's inclusive. The infighting between those parts of my identity sucked.
@@partigiana sorry if I'm asking an ignorant question, but why is that strange? Non-jewish lesbians were also targeted by the Nazis. (And, I might add, by the ideology they operated under, which was present in less extreme forms across much of the Western world.)
I like the simplified orange flag because you can easily remember five colors -- Orange, peach, white, lavander, purple. The lipstick flag in particular was a nightmare, unless knowing the exact shades was the ultimate girlboss gatekeep shibboleth.
The world needed this video. As someone who identifies as a non-binary lesbian, it’s refreshing to see a cis lesbian so willing to speak out in staunch opposition of exclusionary gatekeepers. ❤️
@@Lola_Nico there is no way for respectability politics to not be exclusionary. People are people, and I doubt anybody crowned you the supreme authority on identity and presentation.
I for one deeply appreciate the butch love I have seen in this video. Butches and studs need support from the lipsticks and femmes and deserve more visibility in mainstream lesbian media, because contrary to an inexplicably popular falsehood in lesbian spaces, there are barely any butches in lesbian media and almost all of them are portrayed as an awful stereotype.
i am in disbelief of how recent this all was. i feel like this should’ve been like 20 years ago not the 10s.(cause honestly my brain is still stuck in the last decade and i feel like we’re not in the 20s rn lmfao) it’s honestly crazy that lesbian history was being made a couple years ago. also i’m literally so mad at the lipstick lesbian flag creator. she gave lipstick lesbians such a bad name. nothing is wrong with being femme and girly and loving traditionally feminine shit and like girls like that. i’ve only been into super girly girls. my first crush i can remember was daphne blake from scooby doo. obviously very girly. anyways that’s my rant ab natalie. but i’m glad emily ended up creating the orange flag. it’s so pretty. just like a sunset or sum
It was interesting hearing your experience with lipstick lesbians being exclusionary, kinda broadens my perspective. I'm a more feminine lesbian and growing up I got told I didn't make myself look lesbian enough or people just not believing I was when I said it because I was too feminine, and it felt kinda isolating. Fashion and femininity is such a stupid, petty thing to try and separate the lesbian community over but ig you get trouble no matter what you do. Either way I like that the flag we use incorporates both. Sometimes our community is so exclusionary over dumb stuff, and even though the origin of the pink part is weird I like what the new one represents.
I got told the exact same thing when I first started coming out. I was told that my hair was "too long" to be a lesbian. Sorry not sorry, but butch cuts aren't for me. I like them on other women, but I'd just flat out look stupid in one. My face looks super young without short hair and I'd just look like a 10 year old if I got it cut too short.
HOLY SHIT pretty sure my lesbian flag design that i made when i was like, 14-15? at 11:17 is in that pile?? flag number 62!! i dont identify as a lesbian anymore (i realized i was a transman a couple years ago!! ^_^) however it was super cool to see something i designed so long ago pop up again!! especially didnt expect it to be seen again on a channel ive been watching almost religiously for a while now
Tho I'm not a lesbian I still absolutely adore the 2018 sunset flag, I see it every morning before school because there's a lesbian couple Who lives close to my school :] and again even tho I'm not a lesbian (I'm mlm) it makes me feel accepted in a way lol
it really is such a pretty flag, and calling it the sunset flag just feels so warm and nice, i love it! I'm not a lesbian either (queer nonbinary trans guy here) but it really is my favorite of the flags even if purely considering it on an aesthetic level without the loaded history behind the other flags
despite the orange flag's colour scheme not fitting my gothic aesthetic it's still my favourite! i'm planning to get the 5 striped version soon and hang it on my wall
literally such a struggle for the goth lesbians. I have the sunset flag on my wall and I feel like I need to get more black and white posters/black decor to balance it out 😩
@@ihaterefriedbeans As someone who also has their house decorated with all black stuff... Yeah my NB and trans pride flags stick out like a sore thumb lol but I guess that's kinda good! Reminds me to be proud of who I am every day.
im not a lesbian (bi trans guy 🤠) and i've always thought the orange flag is really pretty! imo, it's the best design-wise as well. glad my lesbian comrades got such a nice flag after all that trouble
I think there is a redesign of the labrys flag that doesn’t feature the black triangle and honestly I really like it. I am not too fond of the sunset flag and I think the labrys one is super dope. I wish it was user more.
One thing I wish had taken off was “SAGA” instead of LGBTQ+. I can’t remember exactly where I heard it but it means “sexuality and gender acceptance”. Boom. Everyone covered in 4 letters.
it was so fun to me when i finally "picked" a favourite colour that wasn't just ROYGBIV, because i decided that it was specifically lavender that i loved most. ...and then i realized i was a lesbian, and then i realized that my favourite colour was already the signature colour of lesbians. like... i dunno, it's stupid, but that tiny little tidbit makes me so ridiculously happy. i also like the 5-stripe orange flag, myself, because it gives it more syncretism to the trans pride flag. apart from the fact that it makes it really nice and easy to make combo trans/lesbian flags, just being 5 stripes - even if this was not the intent - makes it feel to me evocative of the trans pride flag, and so tacitly inclusive of trans women on that basis.
The sunset flag is my personal preference for showing lesbian pride, I just think the colors fit so nicely together. And it doesn't have the negative connotations the all-pink one has.
just as like a sidenote on the labrys[?]/battleaxe flag: the use of the black triangle edges appropriation because its use to mark "antisocials" was for a very short time, and was in fact mostly used to identify rromani people this is not hate btw just another like tidbit
Considering I remember when the lipstick lesbian/pink flag was everywhere, the sunset lesbian/orange flag feels really new tbh. I still personally prefer the pink flag BUT I love that the sunset flag is more inclusive and not connected to a.. questionable individual. It's great y'all, congrats on having a nice flag!
if i remember correctly, the simplified orange flag was made because it would be difficult to make a physical pride flag with seven stripes in such similar colors
i went into this fully expecting every one of these flags to have the same level of research and history put behind their designs as the first one, so when it transitioned from “this flag has three symbolic meanings, each tied to an important aspect of historical lesbianism” to “this flag has lipstick because lipstick lesbians, as well as pink because girls” i was,, a *little* surprised
Well the lipstick lesbian flag was a stolen design from the cougar pride flag so it's no wonder that there is no meaning behind it. Altho I wish I could find more sources on the cougar pride flag and why the flag was designed like that
that's why everyone is sad we "lost" the lavender and labrys, new flags just have no historical references shoutout to the Sapphic flag tho that has a graphic of a violet pasted on!
I swear the lipstick flag also turned out to be copied from the cougar flag, which was made by a gay dude in 2008 because he didn't like the ageism around womens' sexuality. It was inspired the bear flag and it was pink stripes with a lipstick in the top left corner.
seriously, this fact is what makes it so infuriating whenever there's those few lesbians screaming about the vincian flag being a copy of the sunset flag like guys, even if it was(which it isn't) it'd just be history coming full circle, why is that such an issue?
I'm too late to watch this on my actual birthday, but the fact that this was posted on my first birthday as a mostly-out lesbian?? Absolutely unparalleled, thank you for this present
not sure how true it is, but i’ve heard that the simplified orange flag was created to be easier to make into physical flags as it required fewer colors of fabric ? it may well have just been a lazy deviant art user as you suggested though
There's a double-factor to it. First, by using only five lines instead of seven, it becomes easier to produce physical copies of. These physical flags can be of many sizes, from button-pin to wall-flag. With less colors invoked, less colors of fabric are needed. This makes the production cheaper as well. And, compounding this, the removal of intermediary shades on both sides allows a wider spread of hues and shades for each individual bar which remains. Thus the fabric bought can be cheaper because they don't need to be the specific hexcodes or pigments to fit the flag exactly. The second factor is that it's, also, easier to design. See, because the truth is that almost everyone is "lazy" in the manner as you reference. And, in fact, corporations are often lazier than the type of user who would remove the 'lipstick stain' from the "Lipstick Lesbian" flag because they couldn't figure out a way to improve the resolution/quality.
Crazy how history is repeating itself with them mlm flag and its discourse, however things go I hope we get an established mlm flag like we did with the lesbian flag. I remember being in middle school always feeling kinda weird about how there was no flag for gay men that wasn't niche and tied to specific subgroups
Tbh honest I like the "toothpaste" flag, though in my brain I call it the ocean flag, which I think compliments the sunset flag well just from a symbolic standpoint.
@@MysteryDisc same here! I'm biased cause teal is a favorite color but I definitely feel like despite any rough past we should take it while we're agreed on something.
totally agree! and like the other commenter said, i like the ocean colored flag and it pairs nicely with the sunset look the lesbian flag has- gives the feeling of solidarity. i admit im also biased and love teal, but i truly hope it stays around. having a symbol to mean gay men/mlm without being a specific subgroup feels really important to me as a gay trans guy. plus, the rainbow flag kinda covers everyone now (which is great!) so it'd be nice to have some pride for mlm love specifically :]
A lot of other lesbians are mad about the toothpaste flag but honestly i kinda like it. Colors are nice, it pairs nicely with the lesbian flag which is cool because our communities have been closely connected ever since the AIDS crisis etc etc.
@@justwhy9427 as a lesbian i kinda love the toothpaste flag for the exact same reasons it feels very solidarity related and i thought it was weird everyones first thoughts about it was that it was a "copy"
I need to know more about this. Why do cougars have a pride flag? Is it a pride flag specifically for queer cougars? Or is there a group of straight cougars that feel they experience the same kind of oppression as queer ppl and therefore belong in the community? Pls I need more info lol.
@@Hepaticaa if you google it you can find a short statement from the drag queen that made it; it was never completely serious and i doubt straight cougars use it but it is interesting because it was made to draw attention to ageism and in 2008 the idea of being older meaning you get less and less desirable was definitely a more prevailing idea than it is today
@@BigGayIncorporated yes without the cougar pride flag, the lesbian flag wouldn't look like it does to day. It's a pretty important flag in lesbian flag history
I remember the sunset/orange flag being used on twitter back in 2018. They have those pride borders that ppl put on their pfps in june and a lot of people started pushing not to use the lipstick one anymore, but use the new sunset one. Can’t believe it’s been such a short time and that flag is already accepted by most people. Thank you Emily Gwen!!
"Why would you date a woman who looks like a man?" Well,have you seen these studs? These ladies are fucken cute af. They always got the best fashion and they always have the best smelling cologne.Duh!
There's also a "new and right lesbian flag" made by terfs which is the most popular to use in Russia right now 🙂 ( tw: transphobia , misgendering ) They say it's the right one 'cause it includes trans men and excludes trans women and they call the sunset one "the bi flag". I really hope it won't spread around enough to be a part of the lesbian history. There is 1 good thing about it tho - helps to figure out who to not interact with very quickly.
As a bi woman, I knew it would come, but at the line "even the bi's have a flag", I felt myself retreating back into the closet just a tiny bit... yay /s
@@BigGayIncorporated Agender here, i know the struggle. People will purposely dead name me, im constantly pushed out of the lesbian community, and thanks to trans medicalists most of the time I feel like I'm just trying to be special or something. It fucking sucks.
Love the fact that she has chosem this lightning in the lesiban-bride-colors! Unique detail! Very cute. Oh and, can you explain the other flags history as well? Loved this vid!
Not a lesbian but I love every flag _except_ the lipstick lesbian flag because of it's problematic creator. Don't know if you'd be up to other pride flag histories but I love the idea!
@@EZOnTheEyes There’s also the issue that it’s not really yours to reclaim, specifically the black triangle part. It was mainly used to target romani ppl, not lesbians. I would love to see lesbians reclaim it without the triangle though (by maybe exchanging it for a different symbol, a black violet perhaps?👀) I think that would be pretty cool.
Honestly as a trans lesbian I reckon inclusive cis lesbians should absolutely reclaim the labrys. It's sick as hell. It's got an axe. It's got purple. Also the pink flag being invented by accident is fantastic lmao. Just peak internet.
There's a lot of other comments that explain it better than me but there's also the issue that the triangle was used for Romani as well and many Romani lesbians aren't a fan of the flag.
I’m not a lesbian myself but the first time I saw the labrys was when an internet friend of mine had it in her discord status. When I asked what it was, she explained it and the reason she uses it was simply “it’s so fucken dope!!!!” DW I know she isn’t a terf, she’s fine with me being trans
@@noheterotho179 Yeah, that's a bit up in the air, so if we want to fully err on the side of caution: purple/black/purple tricolor with the labrys in the middle. Boom, new pride flag that's still sick as hell in color scheme and symbolism, and less controversial.
After you do the Converse overalls you should just make a whole jumpsuit later on and then add gloves and a hood/whole head cover eventually. Full Converse suit.
Theres also a variant flag that has four stripes (lavender, yellow, green and pink) and is based off of a sappho poem!! its not as popular as the orange/pink flag but its pretty cute. i couldn't find an example of a seperate name for it but i always think of it as the sappho flag
random thing, but i find it kind of weird that we ever settled for mogai or lgbt+ as a "we cant just keep adding letters" solution, when uh... GSM (gender and sexual minorities) is a perfect acronym that afaik existed as long as lgbt movement did?
SOGI (sexual orientation and gender identity) was often used in my school. idk how well it’s known. imo it’s not very specific though… i love GSM as an acronym
It was always weird to me how intense the lesbian flag discourse is, when to my knowledge most of the other flags don’t have near this much debate. In my schools GSA we had to have an official meeting about how members who were found to be bullying other members for using a different version of the flag would be kicked out, because one girl preferred the pink flag and someone else said they were transphobic and was harassing them (funny side note, the actual transgender lesbian in the club didn’t actually mind that she used the pink flag because the two got along great and had always been supportive of each other’s gender and sexuality)
It absolutely blows me away that this was basically all decided on tumblr, I remember it happening (from the sidelines as a bisexual trans guy), it was barely more than 5 years ago and now this flag is the most recognisable lesbian flag in mainstream culture? And yet tumblr is considered a punchline that only contributed cringe to society!
Honestly yeah people don't realize how much culture comes from Tumblr. Maybe I'm talking nonsense but it seems like Tumblr is a vanguard of internet humor in some ways
@@katatat2030 no no you're correct
I remember in ~2015 there was a subset of ace discourse focused on targeting etsy stores whose pride merch featured ace flag designs but not lesbian flag ones. This is already pretty ridiculous and ignorant to history, but it's even funnier when you take into account that the ace flag was created in 2010! So any artist with a pride collection more than like, a year old, got harassed for "excluding" a flag that *did not even exist* at the time of the art's creation.
I guess it's not surprising the people who attacked aces under the guise of "defending lesbians" all turned out to be huge TERFs, lol
Even the pan flag originated from tumblr (I think.) Tumblr honestly used to be a huge queer hub, it was the first place where feminism and pro trans rights were really BIG on a single platform imo.. ...And then the porn ban happened lmao.
random people on tumblr have more influence over politics than you think considering how made up gender stuff has been popularized and seen as fact now
one reason why the labrys flag isn’t used is that the black triangle primarily was used to oppress romani women during the holocaust, while lesbians were a minority. some folk are uncomfortable with it being used for lesbians and instead have a version without the triangle.
i think we could make it some kind of flower instead because the black accent is really pretty
@@shinypaintf588 I was thinking a violet violet (for Sappho's crowns of violets) against a dark purple background. Simple Japanese flower motif style. I could do that easily. Then I remembered that I am a man - dammit.
@@pattheplanter at 11:17, number 39 in that little flag pile seems to match that description
@@xejune That is a pansy, which is in the viola genus like the violet but has a quite different gay connotation. Similar execution to what I was thinking, you are right.
The Black triangle was documented as "antisocial" which would cover anyone who wasn't any of the other groups the National Socialist Party labeled as a second class citizen, There's a Blue triangle for Political prisoners as well as five other groups including the pink triangle we know for Men loving men and transgender women. If someone was one of those groups along with being Jewish they would have a triangle in reverse added to form the star of David. So, in short, most of these labels aren't really direct but also I don't like the idea of limiting ourselves to the labels given by an empire that no longer exists but also the iconography of it is illegal in much of Europe. I'm not saying no one can reclaim these symbols, but other than the star of David, none of these symbols are exclusive to one group.
“Look at my garbage fucking go” is honestly so iconic
Also love the lesbian lighting ❤️🧡🤍💗💖
Guard #3!?
i didn't even notice that until u mentioned it...also i misread your comment and thought that it said "lightning"
@@wartygourd same lmao
if you hadn't mentioned this I was going to!
Like a proud parent.
what's even funnier than the sims 4 having 3 lesbian flags is WHY they did that. when they first released their pride content, they didn't include any of the lesbian flags, which people naturally got pretty steamed about. the devs had to apologize, and i guess no one at EA could tell which of the lesbian flags they should put in to make people less mad, so they just put in all three
this context makes the info abt the sims including lesbian flags a lot more hilarious, you're right, LMAO. love it.
despite being a gay man, every time anyone says anything about lesbians i have the intense urge to say "shoutout to the lesbians"
lespog (sorry)
shoutout to us
Billy Eichner Instinct
YEAH SHOUTOUT TO US!!
*LET'S GO LESBIANS LET'S GO*
About the simplified orange flag, I believe that it was simplified in order to make the manufacturing of lesbian-related merchandise for celebrating pride easier and not as expensive. In any case, I'm just glad that the simplified version was made as an equal-standing alternative.
Yep! The original Pride flag was simplified for the same reason.
this is what i remember as well!
Yes, lots of materials are difficult or impossible to source in that many specific colours! Sock Dreams can't make socks with that design because they can't get one kind of sock yarn in 6 different shades of pink.
Fewer pantones to purchase!
Agreed 100%. I'm glad too. lol If it makes things easier and less expensive, then who am I to complain? Besides, I think it looks pretty. I feel proud of it.
I love how you talk to your audience with the assumption that we’re all lesbians. It’s like I’m in the wrong zoom and no one has kicked me out yet. Update: oops, I’m trans. The not being a lesbian statement is invalid.
Same lmao
@@BigGayIncorporated amazing username
@@Lionfrog13 Thank you lol
as a pan non-binary man, same
As a queer transmasc, same
Converse overalls is among the most cursed ideas that I have heard recently.
NO THAT SOUNDS GREAT, THE TOP PART CAN BE PURELY LACES
whyd you have to go and make things so complicated? i see the way youre acting like youre somebody else. gets me frustrated. simply admit that i am the funniest and greatest and sm*rtest and coolest and strongest yout*ber of all time! admit it, dear she
@@AxxLAfriku what does it all mean?
@@AxxLAfriku bruh you're literally appearing in nearly every UA-cam comment section I've seen. If people don't like your content they don't like it, just drop it and move on.
Eventually someone's just going to make a converse onesey and t̴h̸e̸n̴ ̶Za̸l̶g̴o̵ ̷w̷i̷l̵l̵ ̷a̷w̶a̵k̷e̵n̵ a̷̡̜̘̺̤̰̮̦͙̾̈́̒͜͝n̷̡̢̧̫̪̯̰̦̹͔̗̱̋͛̋̀̾̓̒̿̑͒ͅḑ̶̧̘͔͚͕̪͔̺̥̱̗̰̖͚̿̿̅̈́̾̐́̊̎͒̈́́̉͠ͅͅ ̸̯̰̬̥̞̹̮̻̮̝͍̙͈͙͓̦̮̄̾̃͗̈̕c̵̛͖̺̠̹̺̫̟̳͇̘̐͊̐̎̉̽̽̎̅͑͂̑ͅo̵̡̤̭̥̞̯̟̗̥͉̤͓̦̙͖̊͝n̴̨̧̠̭͕̖̩̰͓͉͙̹̞̤͇͎̽̎̓̓͛͂̏͒̃̿͘͝͠š̷̡̧̡͙͙̖̙̗͈̣̬͉̱̠͝ủ̶͈̗̞̼͎̪̳̪͉͖̙̉͐̓̇́͝ͅm̵̜͖̻̘͖̽͗̇̽̍̌̈̔͐͐ȩ̵̢̨̨̛̼̱̹͔̙̗͖̹̪͍͇̫͖̊͒̾̾̈́͑̌͗̐̉̎̚̕ ̴̡̧̫̫͍͕͈̰̣̻͙̘̈́͛̉̃͒̈́͗̈́͊̃̈́́͛̕̚͜ͅt̴̨̢̳̫̹͎͖̜̣͇̗̓̐͌̇̃̔͛̀͛̎͝͠ͅḩ̶̧̡̧̳̣͉̪͓̩̹̼̝̭͍̖̀̎͋̓̅̔̿͊͐̂̈́͌̆̎͘̚é̸̛̜̺̦̲̘̽̉̎̽̆̾͒̂̀̍̍͘̕͝͝ ̴̛̘͚̺̤̦̈́̎̎͊̌̔͗̈̅̅̿͘m̷̰̜̼̮̪͗̊i̸̝̠̩̯̟̘͊͌ͅn̷̡̫͕͔̟̗̤̼̭̼͓͚̞̯̼̈͂̒͂̿̈̍̍̓̄̽̚̕ͅḓ̸̮͙͔̼̰̾̍͛̑͂̒̚͘͜͜ͅͅş̴̛̛͍̝̠̼̯̜̤̭̽͗͆̌͆͛͛̈́͆̔͋ͅ ̴͍͎͈̫̙̝̥͈̋͗̍̋̈́̈́̂̾͝͝o̴̫̦̰̝̗͎̭̠̖̰͍̲͑̅̍́̽̓͜f̵̛͉̲̖͔͓̯͖̪̯͚͗̂̈́́̆̅̓̋͑̇̕͜ ̴̨̥̆̆̓͛̀̚͝͠ț̴͕̠͖̱̮̗̪̫̝̠͖͙̭̄͛̈́̀ͅh̴̡̯̪̥̐̈́̍̈́͑̓͗͛͆͌͋̒̓̕͘͠ȩ̷̢̡͔̝̼̝̦͎͍̟̐̓̍̊̃͝͠ ̵̧͈̪̪̮̰̫͉̱̫͉̹̼͚̎͆̌͑̋̃̔͜͠ẁ̷̹̖̤͕̬̱̽ỏ̷̭͚͆̂̌̾̓͠r̴̢̝̩̬̬̜̠̩̂͛͂̒̉̈̌̑̋̕ͅl̵̻͉̬̥̞͕̟̈͋̀̀̌̍̈̀̈̎́̈́̕͘̕͝͝d̸̬͎̙̟͙̰͎͓͕̪͇̤̘̄̐͗̔̎͐͑.̵̛̣͎̰͈̤͓̳͎̝̠̻̦͖͈̈́̈́̾̾̓̄́͑́̀
I'm SO glad to hear you addressing the attitude some wlw have where they think being feminine is somehow "better" than being gender noncomforming. Even on tiktok nowadays I still see stuff from sapphics performatively trying to distance themselves from butches/studs/gnc women and it annoys the hell out of me. If i have to see "I'm not like THOSE mannish lesbians!" one more time...
"even the bisexuals have a flag now" NATALIE
I call the orange flag the sunset flag and honestly, as an art and color theory expert, it’s beautifully made.
That’s the official name for it…
Before I knew it was specifically called the sunset flag I called it the peach flag!
I miss purple, though. It was always associated with WLW and it just made more sense to me :-/
It makes me think of a orange/coconut/raspberry sherbet :)
I know, right? It's absolutely stunning
There's also the fact that the Labrys flag, nice and well intentioned as it is, conflates the class and ethnic struggles of Nazi Germany with the sexual struggles of the lesbian community in Nazi Germany.
The black triangle was largely used in asocials, yes, and some lesbian women definitely were put in that category, however the bulk of people with the badge were Roma and Sinti populations, beggars and alcoholics were also tagged a huge part of the "taggings". It's generally not a good idea to use reclaimed nazi symbols, the pink triangle being exceptional because it was Jewish gay men kickstarting the reclaiming.
There's still debate on nazi symbolism out there, and how much is it worth reclaiming, and even if you can reclaim it at all, and we should, first and foremost, listen to Jewish and Romani people, because they suffered through the Holocaust as ethnic communities. It was a lot of grandmothers, parents and the such being condemned to horrible violations that the human mind can't even really process
Thank you for the informative comment! This is really insightful!
Can someone explain who the sinti are?
@@ussinussinongawd516 They are also a Romani people, loosely speaking, but it's a little more complicated than that. I also think their numbers may have been particularly decimated during the Holocaust :-(
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinti
thank you! i was about to comment about the black triangle and stuff, but i didn't know how to explain it properly since i'm neither jewish, romani, or a lesbian lol. i'm glad to see many comments talking about this though, i feel like it's a very important conversation
you know I never thought about it but that's a very good point
As soon as i heard the words "even the bisexuals have a flag" i just KNEW that person was a biphobe lmfaoooo
ah yes, the obscure gay sub group: bisexuals.
@@Emanuel-uy2ox lmfao
@@Emanuel-uy2ox Obviously it's obscure, it's not even in LGBT abbreviation (The "B" stands for bioluminescent) /j
@@littlemeloncoli3017 the b stands for beans
or bussy. whichever is funnier
@@Ari_C as a bi person I can indeed confirm we're nothing but a pile of beans stacked on top of each other.
HEY. I WAS ON TUMBLR FOR LITERALLY ALL OF THIS HISTORY. HERE'S WHY THE SIMPLIFIED FLAG BECAME A THING:
Extremely shortly after the orange flag won a couple of those surveys as the defacto lesbian flag, a lot of Tumblr users started really pestering people who offered pride merchandise to offer stuff with the lesbian flag. Totally understandable, everyone wants to feel represented, and the community just seemed to settle on the issue. The only issue was that this was a massive pain in the ass for a lot of crafters. Think about anything fabric that isn't just screen printed: knitting, sewing, whatever. It was EXTREMELY difficult to expect someone to be able to access 7 varying shades of pink (as some sects of the lesbian community were pushing for the flag not to be changed at all). Changing the flag to 3 different shades of orange, 3 different pinks, and white was a bit easier, but not by much. The simplified flag, much like how the rainbow pride flag lost its pink and turquoise stripes because of the lack of accessibility to those colored fabrics, was made to make it easier for crafters to replicate. Just two different oranges and two different pinks is much more reasonable, most yarns or minky suppliers will have like, a pumpkin orange and a dusty orange, or a hot pink and baby pink.
Another added benefit to the simplified flag is the further separation away from the problematic origins of the lipstick flag. Fun fact: the lipstick flag is ALSO plagiarized from the freaking COUGAR PRIDE FLAG. Look it up! The cougar pride flag showed up online two years before the lipstick lesbian flag and it's got the same amount of stripes and that tacky ass lipstick stamp. So yeah. There's that too! I always find that part so funny.
Damn, I actually really love that the "modern" flag was made by combining the two. What a nice resolution, bringing the subcultures together.
and the end result is so pretty too! like, I'm not even a lesbian/sapphic person but if i were I'd love having that flag represent me. there's a pretty much general consensus to call it the sunset flag too which is such a nice name for it!
Yeah, it’s really interesting of how the best looking or iconic flags are often formed out of the combination of different elements/groups/peoples/regions of a nation (like how the UK is basically just stacking flags on top of each other, the French Flag being the colors of Paris with the white symbol of France and royalty smushed between them, etc etc.)
honestly stuff like the labris flag makes me wish more pride flags had fun, not-just-stripey designs. i think i saw a tumblr post ages ago with a whole bunch of other weaponry-based flags for various different sexualities and we should bring that energy back (edit: but like obvsly not the terfy shit)
yeah i think lot of the pride flags being just horizontal stripes is so boring. of the widely accepted flags i think only the intersex and straight ally flags do SOMETHING interesting with shapes. at least the bi flag has stripes of differing thickness
Totally! And given I don’t like Emily, it would give me an excuse not to touch her design.
Off topic but I love your profile pic.
I think the reason pride flags (and really most flags in general) are very simplified is because the point of them is to rally a bunch of different people of very different backgrounds and cultures into one banner, and when you want to that the more elaborate you get the more people you’re gonna alienate, that’s the nature of aesthetics.
Stripes of colors are simple, readable and therefore people are less likely to strongly dislike it.
Also specific symbols like the black triangle and battle axe often change meanings very quickly and thus don’t age very well (colors also carry implications but they tend to have more longevity).
From a graphic design standpoint, simple flags are better. They are easy to replicate, easily identifiable and it’s easier to make icons of them (hence why a lot of graphic designers/artists in general hate the “progressive pride flag”). From just a fun stand point, I fully agree that adding stuff to flags would make them a lot more fun to have and they can add meanings that simple shapes can’t.
LETS GO LESBIANS!!!!
😂👌🏻
Where are we going?
HI
Arent you that person from tiktok(
Good comment thanks
"You're stupid" is a stance! I understand that it is hard to be eloquent about the topic, but I, as a trans woman interested in women, really appreciate you speaking out on it. Thanks!
Random thought but something is telling me you're really pretty. Like I dunno I just feel like you're very pretty.
@@dalkay there’s a small minority of (probably fake) trans women online who have tried to course lesbians into like penis or neovaginas. As long as these people exist, there’s going to be defensive lesbians so.
@@dalkay ignore/report the TERF, she's harassing people in replies everywhere
@@Lola_Nico Hey JK Rowling
@@littlemeloncoli3017 hey Chris Chan
Older queer here, love seeing this history. I also really appreciate how you talked about conventional femininity vs everything else in the community. I've been pressured within the community to be & to be attracted to conventionally femininity, and it's so refreshing to hear others discuss this pervasive dynamic.
I just want to say, I appreciate you mentioning MOGAI without turning it into a joke, because as someone who was always very gnc and non-binary I got a lotttt of shit in 2015-2016 for simply wanting to feel more represented in the community. I feel like, despite the flaws it had, MOGAI was not as bad as people like to claim, and often it’s used as an excuse to be shitty.
Fantastic video though! I remember all this happening. Wild times.
So nice to see a beautiful gender conforming girl talking about deep female friendships! Bless xx 💕
#bff #friendshipgoals #girlboss 💖
Love it when gals are pals xx
@@ayl9261 #JustGirlThings
I THOUGHT THIS WAS SERIOUS AT FIRST OH MY GOD
@@ayl9261 true #GirllBoss is too busy running her mlm to actually date man and learn being good at a relationship so she just practices on hee female friends until the say where she needs to have a husband comes #girlBossGrind
First red flag (puns) on the lipstick lesbian flag was the post saying "even the bisexuals have a flag!" Like we aren't part of the queer club 👀
Do the straights have a flag? Vanilla icecream-coloured, presumably? Pale beige.
@@pattheplanter for some time it was usually just like some horizontal black and white stripes, so similar energy. very recently i've seen them use a diagonal half blue/indigo and half pink/magenta design with locking gender symbols slapped on top more so like, maaaaayyybe 1% more creative lol. i think beige would suit better
Biphobia in lesbian communities is such a pervasive issue that nowadays I just come in expecting it
Bisexuals having a pride flag???? What a crazy and wacky idea, how could've anyone thought about that???!?!?
It's so wild the orange lesbian flag is so recent. It *feels* like it's been around longer.
Other than the rainbow flag, none of the most prominent LGBT+ flags are that old, but most of them are still from a decade or two ago, best I can tell. And they all took some time to gain prominence.
A design going from creation to being the default symbol in just 3 years is kinda weird and kinda cool.
The Bi flag was actually created in 1998! :)
Im just realising now that ive been an out lesbian for as long as the lesbian flag has been an out lesbian
@@janibii_608 coincidence? I think not! You're the one responsible for the flag.
(belated congrats on your coming out, BTW. Good for you!)
what else is insane to me is that the leather flag is the SECOND pride flag to ever exist after the rainbow flag
Now let's hope the designer doesn't turn out to have been a bigot. That's happened with a handful of pride flags, unfortunately--since so many are designed by random internet users.
i still remember the days where someone edited the xkcd comic to say
"i can't believe there are 15 lesbian flags! I'm going to make a single standard flag" *3 months later* "I can't believe there are 16 lesbian flags!"
and now there is in fact a standard. who knew it could happen.
I remember the lesbian flag discourse coming out on the tail end of ace/aro discourse on tumblr and oof, that was a bad time. It usually resulted in merch sellers and pride artists and even that "human" t shirt with different flags in the letters being attacked because how dare you include a flag for asexual people, but not lesbians!!
(Other comments have gone over it already, but hesitancy to use the lipstick lesbian flag in physical merchandise was likely due difficulties in producing all those shades of pink rather than malicious homophobic intent.)
So as an asexual lesbian I'm glad we have the current flag and that it's inclusive. The infighting between those parts of my identity sucked.
tbh the labrys flag design isn't.. horrible but as a jewish lesbian, the nazi imagery + it being made by a man kinda makes me uncomfortable w it
Im sorry if this is a stupid question but ... what nazi imagery do you mean exactly? o.O I really dont see any
In the video she mentioned that the downward triangle was used to mark homosexuals in nazi germany
this is more about the black triangle. jewish lesbians find it strange for nonjews to want to reclaim.
@@maudoc9938 In the video strange mentions that the black triangle is a nazi symbol to identify the groups they didn't like. This is at 3:26
@@partigiana sorry if I'm asking an ignorant question, but why is that strange? Non-jewish lesbians were also targeted by the Nazis. (And, I might add, by the ideology they operated under, which was present in less extreme forms across much of the Western world.)
I like the simplified orange flag because you can easily remember five colors -- Orange, peach, white, lavander, purple. The lipstick flag in particular was a nightmare, unless knowing the exact shades was the ultimate girlboss gatekeep shibboleth.
Girlboss Gatekeep Shibboleth sounds like an amazing album title
The world needed this video. As someone who identifies as a non-binary lesbian, it’s refreshing to see a cis lesbian so willing to speak out in staunch opposition of exclusionary gatekeepers. ❤️
So you’re just a butch lesbian. Got it.
@@Lola_Nico no. gender identity and gender presentation are two separate things.
trans lesbian here! ignore the one TERF going around getting schmad, we're cool af
@@dirgenmeister4018 how am I a TERF? I’m not a rad fem and my feminism is inclusive of real trans women.
@@Lola_Nico there is no way for respectability politics to not be exclusionary. People are people, and I doubt anybody crowned you the supreme authority on identity and presentation.
I for one deeply appreciate the butch love I have seen in this video. Butches and studs need support from the lipsticks and femmes and deserve more visibility in mainstream lesbian media, because contrary to an inexplicably popular falsehood in lesbian spaces, there are barely any butches in lesbian media and almost all of them are portrayed as an awful stereotype.
i am in disbelief of how recent this all was. i feel like this should’ve been like 20 years ago not the 10s.(cause honestly my brain is still stuck in the last decade and i feel like we’re not in the 20s rn lmfao) it’s honestly crazy that lesbian history was being made a couple years ago. also i’m literally so mad at the lipstick lesbian flag creator. she gave lipstick lesbians such a bad name. nothing is wrong with being femme and girly and loving traditionally feminine shit and like girls like that. i’ve only been into super girly girls. my first crush i can remember was daphne blake from scooby doo. obviously very girly. anyways that’s my rant ab natalie. but i’m glad emily ended up creating the orange flag. it’s so pretty. just like a sunset or sum
It was interesting hearing your experience with lipstick lesbians being exclusionary, kinda broadens my perspective. I'm a more feminine lesbian and growing up I got told I didn't make myself look lesbian enough or people just not believing I was when I said it because I was too feminine, and it felt kinda isolating. Fashion and femininity is such a stupid, petty thing to try and separate the lesbian community over but ig you get trouble no matter what you do.
Either way I like that the flag we use incorporates both. Sometimes our community is so exclusionary over dumb stuff, and even though the origin of the pink part is weird I like what the new one represents.
I got told the exact same thing when I first started coming out. I was told that my hair was "too long" to be a lesbian. Sorry not sorry, but butch cuts aren't for me. I like them on other women, but I'd just flat out look stupid in one. My face looks super young without short hair and I'd just look like a 10 year old if I got it cut too short.
You look like a genderbend Snape in a wattpad fanfic and I'm here for it
ahhh she does....
I’m not a lesbian, I’m just here to learn more about the history because my best friend is a lesbian :3.
Aw, go you. You're a good one. :3
Do you know about Jessica Kellgren-Fozard's History series? ua-cam.com/video/7gzpY4Wv81U/v-deo.html&t
This is so wholesome 💗
that’s so sweet aw
I speak for all lesbians methinks when I say we claim you and your positivity. 100% will protect you now.
Te orange flag is nice but I wish it had purple in it. The whole violet as a symbol of lesbianism thing is really cool
Thank you for a fascinating history of the flags and also, as a asexual transwoman, thank you for your comments about the terfs.
HOLY SHIT pretty sure my lesbian flag design that i made when i was like, 14-15? at 11:17 is in that pile?? flag number 62!!
i dont identify as a lesbian anymore (i realized i was a transman a couple years ago!! ^_^) however it was super cool to see something i designed so long ago pop up again!! especially didnt expect it to be seen again on a channel ive been watching almost religiously for a while now
@@dalkay thanks man
congrats on the gender! and v cool you designed a lesbian pride flag contender! that's awesome!
i thought i’d seen that one floating around before, that’s so cool!!
@@flubax thank you very much!!!! it was fun at the time and maybe someday ill find a use for it because im still so happy with the colors
@@cemeterygxtes oohhh i didn't think it spread much
Tho I'm not a lesbian I still absolutely adore the 2018 sunset flag, I see it every morning before school because there's a lesbian couple Who lives close to my school :] and again even tho I'm not a lesbian (I'm mlm) it makes me feel accepted in a way lol
it really is such a pretty flag, and calling it the sunset flag just feels so warm and nice, i love it! I'm not a lesbian either (queer nonbinary trans guy here) but it really is my favorite of the flags even if purely considering it on an aesthetic level without the loaded history behind the other flags
@@Ari_C ayyy fellow enby transmasc😎 but yeah it's so pretty !
despite the orange flag's colour scheme not fitting my gothic aesthetic it's still my favourite! i'm planning to get the 5 striped version soon and hang it on my wall
literally such a struggle for the goth lesbians. I have the sunset flag on my wall and I feel like I need to get more black and white posters/black decor to balance it out 😩
@@ihaterefriedbeans IKR it sticking out is gonna be kinda annoying T T at least my ace flag fits the color scheme ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
@@ihaterefriedbeans As someone who also has their house decorated with all black stuff... Yeah my NB and trans pride flags stick out like a sore thumb lol but I guess that's kinda good! Reminds me to be proud of who I am every day.
i JUST realized the lighting on your face,,, genius
Teya used the word “sweaty” as a term for a person. I think Natalie Wynn is influencing her on the Patreon supporter Discord server.
im not a lesbian (bi trans guy 🤠) and i've always thought the orange flag is really pretty! imo, it's the best design-wise as well. glad my lesbian comrades got such a nice flag after all that trouble
HELLO MY FELLOW BI TRANS GUY !!
stop this is so cute
bi ppl supporting lesbians 🤝 lesbians supporting bi ppl
idk how to explain it but bi trans guy🤝lesbian solidarity is one of the most underrated team-ups in the community
@@cowboylikeana absolutely ❤️
I think step 2 of converse pants should be designed like Ferb's pants in Phineas and Ferb
The final step will be to make it a unitary, with sleeves and a turtle neck
I think there is a redesign of the labrys flag that doesn’t feature the black triangle and honestly I really like it. I am not too fond of the sunset flag and I think the labrys one is super dope. I wish it was user more.
One thing I wish had taken off was “SAGA” instead of LGBTQ+. I can’t remember exactly where I heard it but it means “sexuality and gender acceptance”. Boom. Everyone covered in 4 letters.
it was so fun to me when i finally "picked" a favourite colour that wasn't just ROYGBIV, because i decided that it was specifically lavender that i loved most. ...and then i realized i was a lesbian, and then i realized that my favourite colour was already the signature colour of lesbians. like... i dunno, it's stupid, but that tiny little tidbit makes me so ridiculously happy. i also like the 5-stripe orange flag, myself, because it gives it more syncretism to the trans pride flag. apart from the fact that it makes it really nice and easy to make combo trans/lesbian flags, just being 5 stripes - even if this was not the intent - makes it feel to me evocative of the trans pride flag, and so tacitly inclusive of trans women on that basis.
The sunset flag is my personal preference for showing lesbian pride, I just think the colors fit so nicely together. And it doesn't have the negative connotations the all-pink one has.
Even just aesthetically the orange flag is the best one, I absolutely love how it looks.
just as like a sidenote on the labrys[?]/battleaxe flag: the use of the black triangle edges appropriation because its use to mark "antisocials" was for a very short time, and was in fact mostly used to identify rromani people this is not hate btw just another like tidbit
Man I'm with you on the labrys, we could have had it aaaall. Also great summary, look at our trash go
After reading some comments, totally agree. We can nix the nazi imagery fsho. I just like the idea of having an axe I think
Considering I remember when the lipstick lesbian/pink flag was everywhere, the sunset lesbian/orange flag feels really new tbh.
I still personally prefer the pink flag BUT I love that the sunset flag is more inclusive and not connected to a.. questionable individual. It's great y'all, congrats on having a nice flag!
if i remember correctly, the simplified orange flag was made because it would be difficult to make a physical pride flag with seven stripes in such similar colors
i went into this fully expecting every one of these flags to have the same level of research and history put behind their designs as the first one, so when it transitioned from “this flag has three symbolic meanings, each tied to an important aspect of historical lesbianism” to “this flag has lipstick because lipstick lesbians, as well as pink because girls” i was,, a *little* surprised
Well the lipstick lesbian flag was a stolen design from the cougar pride flag so it's no wonder that there is no meaning behind it. Altho I wish I could find more sources on the cougar pride flag and why the flag was designed like that
that's why everyone is sad we "lost" the lavender and labrys, new flags just have no historical references
shoutout to the Sapphic flag tho that has a graphic of a violet pasted on!
I swear the lipstick flag also turned out to be copied from the cougar flag, which was made by a gay dude in 2008 because he didn't like the ageism around womens' sexuality. It was inspired the bear flag and it was pink stripes with a lipstick in the top left corner.
seriously, this fact is what makes it so infuriating whenever there's those few lesbians screaming about the vincian flag being a copy of the sunset flag like guys, even if it was(which it isn't) it'd just be history coming full circle, why is that such an issue?
I love your purple and yellow makeup!
I'm too late to watch this on my actual birthday, but the fact that this was posted on my first birthday as a mostly-out lesbian?? Absolutely unparalleled, thank you for this present
not sure how true it is, but i’ve heard that the simplified orange flag was created to be easier to make into physical flags as it required fewer colors of fabric ? it may well have just been a lazy deviant art user as you suggested though
hi cate
That's plausible and kind of funny given that the pride flag dropped the pink stripe because fabric couldn't be sourced
There's a double-factor to it.
First, by using only five lines instead of seven, it becomes easier to produce physical copies of. These physical flags can be of many sizes, from button-pin to wall-flag.
With less colors invoked, less colors of fabric are needed. This makes the production cheaper as well. And, compounding this, the removal of intermediary shades on both sides allows a wider spread of hues and shades for each individual bar which remains. Thus the fabric bought can be cheaper because they don't need to be the specific hexcodes or pigments to fit the flag exactly.
The second factor is that it's, also, easier to design. See, because the truth is that almost everyone is "lazy" in the manner as you reference. And, in fact, corporations are often lazier than the type of user who would remove the 'lipstick stain' from the "Lipstick Lesbian" flag because they couldn't figure out a way to improve the resolution/quality.
the only valid type of history lesson
what about lesbian history as a whole
Crazy how history is repeating itself with them mlm flag and its discourse, however things go I hope we get an established mlm flag like we did with the lesbian flag. I remember being in middle school always feeling kinda weird about how there was no flag for gay men that wasn't niche and tied to specific subgroups
Tbh honest I like the "toothpaste" flag, though in my brain I call it the ocean flag, which I think compliments the sunset flag well just from a symbolic standpoint.
@@MysteryDisc same here! I'm biased cause teal is a favorite color but I definitely feel like despite any rough past we should take it while we're agreed on something.
totally agree! and like the other commenter said, i like the ocean colored flag and it pairs nicely with the sunset look the lesbian flag has- gives the feeling of solidarity.
i admit im also biased and love teal, but i truly hope it stays around. having a symbol to mean gay men/mlm without being a specific subgroup feels really important to me as a gay trans guy. plus, the rainbow flag kinda covers everyone now (which is great!) so it'd be nice to have some pride for mlm love specifically :]
A lot of other lesbians are mad about the toothpaste flag but honestly i kinda like it. Colors are nice, it pairs nicely with the lesbian flag which is cool because our communities have been closely connected ever since the AIDS crisis etc etc.
@@justwhy9427 as a lesbian i kinda love the toothpaste flag for the exact same reasons it feels very solidarity related and i thought it was weird everyones first thoughts about it was that it was a "copy"
I like the detail of your lighting being half orange half pink :)
I really appreciate that your lighting is the flag colors.
just came out as a lesbian to my friends, very convenient:)))
YAAAAAAAS CONGRATS QUEEN
Same but my friends turned out to be homophobic :(
Happy day for you though!
Congratulations!!!
I think that's the first time I've ever seen "came out" and "convenient" in the same sentence.
Seriously, though: Congratulations!
@@ussinussinongawd516 they do not deserve you >:(
I was literally looking up a different one of your videos when I got this notification.
Also very excited for converse overalls.
the sunset/orange one is my favorite, it's so pretty and the orange and pink fit so well together
The orange and pink lights are a nice touch.
The simplified orange flag is definitely more practical, but I do like how the original orange flag has more of a sunset/sunrise vibe.
i do believe that's why the orange flag is also called the sunset flag !!
this doesn't even touch on the fact that the lipstick flag was basically traced over the cougar pride flag
tracing, a truly reprehensible sin of art. *HISS*
I need to know more about this. Why do cougars have a pride flag? Is it a pride flag specifically for queer cougars? Or is there a group of straight cougars that feel they experience the same kind of oppression as queer ppl and therefore belong in the community? Pls I need more info lol.
@@Hepaticaa if you google it you can find a short statement from the drag queen that made it; it was never completely serious and i doubt straight cougars use it but it is interesting because it was made to draw attention to ageism and in 2008 the idea of being older meaning you get less and less desirable was definitely a more prevailing idea than it is today
@@BigGayIncorporated yes without the cougar pride flag, the lesbian flag wouldn't look like it does to day. It's a pretty important flag in lesbian flag history
@@eastkidd2563 woosh
Lesbian history is quickly becoming one of my favorite things and I'm so glad you're here for the ride with us 🤗
Artistically speaking the orange flag follows a pleasing warm to cool gradient which is enjoyable
I remember the sunset/orange flag being used on twitter back in 2018. They have those pride borders that ppl put on their pfps in june and a lot of people started pushing not to use the lipstick one anymore, but use the new sunset one. Can’t believe it’s been such a short time and that flag is already accepted by most people. Thank you Emily Gwen!!
i almost fell out of shock about the fact that you're a lesbian /j (i did almost fall though)
Oh my god, does her roomate know?!
this is a joke right
I know, right?! I never would’ve guessed
@@beth641 yes that’s what the /j means! it’s a tone indicator like /s for sarcasm and /g for genuine
I wonder if that girl she's very good friends with who is occasionally in the videos knows this
It took me a shocking amount of time to register the orange and pink lighting on your face. Sublime.
I honestly, as a wee 18 year old, had no idea the lesbian flag was THAT RECENT WUT!
"Why would you date a woman who looks like a man?"
Well,have you seen these studs? These ladies are fucken cute af. They always got the best fashion and they always have the best smelling cologne.Duh!
This video was so informative I didn't realize how young the flags were
i was thinking the whole video about how pretty the lighting is and just realized it's pink and orange :')
There's also a "new and right lesbian flag" made by terfs which is the most popular to use in Russia right now 🙂 ( tw: transphobia , misgendering ) They say it's the right one 'cause it includes trans men and excludes trans women and they call the sunset one "the bi flag". I really hope it won't spread around enough to be a part of the lesbian history.
There is 1 good thing about it tho - helps to figure out who to not interact with very quickly.
Here's hoping it doesn't spread to the UK and then to the rest of the english-speaking sphere!
Thx for letting me know I’ll go check it out it sounds based as fuck
никогда не встречала, разочарована но не удивлена…
I’m sure they are happy you aren’t interacting with them so it’s no loss.
интересно если я напишу просто букву т эта ботиха Лорен тоже реплай оставит
"Look at my garbage go!" I feel like I'm going to be looking for an excuse to use this phrase in future.
As a bi woman, I knew it would come, but at the line "even the bi's have a flag", I felt myself retreating back into the closet just a tiny bit... yay /s
Strange Aeons being a trans supporter is very pog, thank you queen
Being a trans supporter should be the bare minimum
@@Ermwhothefart Yeah you'd think but jfc as a trans person the amount of hate I get in this LGBT+ "community"...
@@BigGayIncorporated Agender here, i know the struggle. People will purposely dead name me, im constantly pushed out of the lesbian community, and thanks to trans medicalists most of the time I feel like I'm just trying to be special or something. It fucking sucks.
Opossum Comrade another agender lesbian in a UA-cam comment section:000????
@@BigGayIncorporated if you are getting hate from gays and lesbians, you are probably trying to push ideology onto them.
Love the fact that she has chosem this lightning in the lesiban-bride-colors! Unique detail! Very cute. Oh and, can you explain the other flags history as well? Loved this vid!
Not a lesbian but I love every flag _except_ the lipstick lesbian flag because of it's problematic creator. Don't know if you'd be up to other pride flag histories but I love the idea!
the Labrys one is pretty bad too. it's also been reclaimed by terfs, so there's more than one lesbian flag used by transphobes. yay.
@@bbgore4564 fat oofs. I appreciate reclamation but hate extremist groups, so there's that :/
Edit: Aeons addresses this somewhat a 4:30
@@bbgore4564 meanwhile I know multiple trans lesbians who have labrys tattoos
@@jacquelinealbin7712 the problem is not the labrys itself, it's a battle weapon with a history of women empowerment.
@@EZOnTheEyes There’s also the issue that it’s not really yours to reclaim, specifically the black triangle part. It was mainly used to target romani ppl, not lesbians. I would love to see lesbians reclaim it without the triangle though (by maybe exchanging it for a different symbol, a black violet perhaps?👀) I think that would be pretty cool.
I love the subtle nod of using orange and pink lighting on opposite sides while filming. Very nice touch.
"I'm sure in those years a lot of people got passive aggressive tumblr asks" yes,,,, yes we did.
mother Gay has come to teach us about the earth that she herself created
The holy trinity: Strange Aeons, Thursday Plurbonym Boyporridge, and Gluten-Free Gabardine Girlgruel 🙏🛐❤
@@BigGayIncorporated I've seen you in so many replies, you are so cool and i hope you have an amazing day
@@littlemeloncoli3017 thanks ❤ been in here helping curbstomp a TERF before I start my day uwu
Honestly as a trans lesbian I reckon inclusive cis lesbians should absolutely reclaim the labrys. It's sick as hell. It's got an axe. It's got purple.
Also the pink flag being invented by accident is fantastic lmao. Just peak internet.
And we can use the axe to fight transphobes. Its a win win
There's a lot of other comments that explain it better than me but there's also the issue that the triangle was used for Romani as well and many Romani lesbians aren't a fan of the flag.
I’m not a lesbian myself but the first time I saw the labrys was when an internet friend of mine had it in her discord status. When I asked what it was, she explained it and the reason she uses it was simply “it’s so fucken dope!!!!” DW I know she isn’t a terf, she’s fine with me being trans
I can see the reasons why the black triangle should be dropped, but hell yes let's reclaim the labrys.
@@noheterotho179 Yeah, that's a bit up in the air, so if we want to fully err on the side of caution: purple/black/purple tricolor with the labrys in the middle. Boom, new pride flag that's still sick as hell in color scheme and symbolism, and less controversial.
aww, look at thursday back there! :D love learning about history of the lesbian flag and how it's developed
"Even bisexuals have their own flag!" bro??????? lmao?????
A witchy goth jewelry company from Toronto sounds like the ideal sponsor for this channel, love it
Can't wait for converse overalls
After you do the Converse overalls you should just make a whole jumpsuit later on and then add gloves and a hood/whole head cover eventually. Full Converse suit.
I think at this point we need willow smith and Teya to collaborate
Honestly would love more content like this explaining different flags
Theres also a variant flag that has four stripes (lavender, yellow, green and pink) and is based off of a sappho poem!! its not as popular as the orange/pink flag but its pretty cute. i couldn't find an example of a seperate name for it but i always think of it as the sappho flag
this is FASCINATING to me. from one lesbian to another, thank you! i love learning about the history of my community 🖤
@9:13 Ah, lesbians always pair by hair...One brunette and one blonde. I am learning so much.
random thing, but i find it kind of weird that we ever settled for mogai or lgbt+ as a "we cant just keep adding letters" solution, when uh... GSM (gender and sexual minorities) is a perfect acronym that afaik existed as long as lgbt movement did?
Some people think it can be used to including Paraphiles. GRSM I mean. (The r meaning romantic)
i’ve also heard SAGA (sexuality and gender alliance i think)
SOGI (sexual orientation and gender identity) was often used in my school. idk how well it’s known. imo it’s not very specific though… i love GSM as an acronym
@@gregohreee
I actually like this one, especially since it’s a proper word
@@gregohreee i would not mind one bit if lgbt+ turned into saga
loved the video, we stan a subtle use of lighting
Oooh i lost your channel for a while but now I am so hapoy to have found it again!!! Thank you for this great cality content!!!
Very nice! I've looked a bit into the history, but I'm excited to learn more.😊💛💛
This discourse is one of the easiest ways to get yelled at online
It was always weird to me how intense the lesbian flag discourse is, when to my knowledge most of the other flags don’t have near this much debate. In my schools GSA we had to have an official meeting about how members who were found to be bullying other members for using a different version of the flag would be kicked out, because one girl preferred the pink flag and someone else said they were transphobic and was harassing them (funny side note, the actual transgender lesbian in the club didn’t actually mind that she used the pink flag because the two got along great and had always been supportive of each other’s gender and sexuality)
@@dalkay SAAAAAAAAME I was nervous to watch this video, I only got here cause it autoplayed when I left the room
Wow, really wish there were this comprehensive a vid on the mlm flags. Great job!