Thanks, Stephen. Your luck is much better than mine when it comes to receiving "gifts" from associates. It's good to hear that our little video fostered your enthusiasm for a really neat old amp. Hopefully it will now be displayed and appreciated, rather than hidden in an old, dark closet.
Nice video. Someone just gave me an old Gretsch 6150 that they have been storing for about 50 years. It even has the sticker on the speaker still. Thanks for the history lesson, I appreciate this beast that much more!
Cat, thanks for the input. Yes, I have added lots of 3-wire power cords to amps and have never had to modify the amplifier itself. You must be sure that the black "hot" wire (of the three: black, white, and green) goes to the on/off toggle, fuse, and power transformer primary (in that order). The white "neutral" wire goes to the other side of the transformer primary, and the green "ground" is connected directly to the chassis. Good luck !!!
Thanks, John. Your speaker code is for a Quam speaker made in the 11th week of either 1951 or 1961. Since the speaker is electrodynamic (it has a field coil), I would bet on 1951. I suggest that you check out Internet sites dedicated to either Gretsch amps or Valco amps (Valco actually built the amp for Gretsch) and see if you can't find a 1951 or 1952 amp (or schematic) that matches yours. BTW, I have lots of vintage amp videos posted on a companion site.....just click on the icon to the left.
Wow, much appreciated! Beautiful amps, I have a Gretsch 6150 so I already know that it's a little tone monster! I like the other's you've shown as well! ~Cheers!
I appreciate the interest, JRM, but at this time, the only amp in my collection that's for sale is the Teisco Checkmate 17 (a YT video is posted on my channel). Eventually, I'll probably sell them all.....but not for a while.
Great video thanks guys! It's really nice to see these lovely old amps explained and demonstrated in such detail. I can't wait to see that National amp in more detail. It looks really classy. Thanks!
Always appreciate your knowledge and love for Valcos. These sound so spanky and crystal it's just not even funny. Just picked up an old Homebrew mic amp on the extreme cheap and planning a 6150 conversion with it in great part thanks to your tutelage . You know the saying: You keep making these vids, we'll keep watching. Thanks again for being awesome, Uncle Doug.
Hey, I'm ALWAYS willing to go the extra mile to help out a fellow tube-head. If I can report on my own disasters and save somebody the expense and grief that I went through, I do it every time. Besides, nobody wants to see those 3 beautiful classics ever come to any harm. You can save the old parts, and put them back if you sell the amps to a collector. They're not as anal about virgin solder joints as the guitar guys are, and you can enjoy your amps with confidence! I'll check the cap meter.
Thanks for your kind appraisal, Chris, and congratulations on your new acquisition. I really think that Gretsch amps were among the very best that Valco ever made. If you click on my icon, I have a test of a really nice Gretsch 6161 on my own channel that you may find interesting. Thanks again !!!
is to change over to a 10" or 12" speaker, which "opens up" the amp and provides much better tone and volume. Another consideration is that with guitar amps, the amp may not have tone control but the guitar does. You can easily alter the amp output tone with the guitar tone control. Finally, I have connected very small amps (like those in the video) to huge speaker cabinets (3 x 15" Jensens at 97.4 db each) and the resultant volume and tone were spectacular. I guess "bigger really is better".
Hi I have the Gretsch 6150 and i want to get an attenuator in between the amp and speaker. However i’m not sure about the cable leading to the speaker. It’s not clear which whether Green or Black is the positive/Negative. There’s no +/- marks on the cone either. Would you know this.?
An interesting observation.....my own experience with increasing speaker size (and efficiency) tends to run contrary to this, however. Almost without exception, bigger speakers sound better. Speaker efficiency is based on cone thickness and voice coil mass, with less moving mass = higher efficiency. Larger, more efficient speakers tend to be more dynamic and responsive than smaller, inefficient ones, and move a lot more air. A favorite modifications of old Fender Champ amps (with 8" speakers)..
I absolutely love my 1614 Supro Spectator. But I knew that on/off volume switch was gonna be trouble and it is!!! lol I cleaned it out with some contact cleaner and it worked great for a while but I’m pretty sure I’m gonna have to have it replaced. 😢
Thanks for the follow-up, JP. Have you seen the new ESR meters that are now available (at reasonable prices)? They take a lot of the mystery out of electrolytic capacitor health. I bought one and made a video about its use with old amps. I think you might find it interesting. Regardless, thanks for your input. I really appreciate it.
Good questions! First, the sure sign that an electrolytic capacitor has seen better days is a little blister, that looks kind of like a wart, on the positive end of the cap. that means that the electrolyte has dried up and a dead short is waiting to happen. Second, My own ignorance at the time contributed to my disaster. Although I had the right fuse, (750ma), I kept putting new ones in and they stayed on for 5-10 seconds before blowing. this most likely was enough to kill it.
I sure can't comment on this. Uncle Doug has his own channel but during these early days he posted a few videos on my channel of some really nice instruments.
Was there any warning that the filter caps in the Tremolux were failing.....or were they dead quiet one day and dead shorted the next ?? Also, I would have thought that the fuse would have prevented such catastrophic destruction. Was the amp properly fused?
Hi guys , would you be able to guide me to a website on how to build the first amp you looked at . i'm an absolute beginner at amp building . thank you .
You really ought to replace the filter caps on all 3 of those amps. 50+ years is way too long for any electrolytic capacitor. If one of them gives up the ghost, you risk catastrophic failure. I had the filters short out on a Tweed Tremolux, and they smoked both transformers and a pair of vintage N.O.S. RCA black plate 6V6 tubes, plus a nice G.E. rectifier. $40 worth of new Sprague Atoms would've saved me over $350 in repair costs. It's o.k. now, but it was an expensive.and frustrating lesson.
Great presentation! I have the Gretsch 6150 and i want to get an attenuator in between the amp and speaker. However i’m not sure about the cable leading to the speaker. It’s not clear which whether Green or Black is the positive/Negative. There’s no +/- marks on the cone either. Would you know this.?
I'm trying to find how many ohms there are in the 8 inch Jensen speaker for the Gretsch 6150 is it either 4 or 8. The speaker has a tear in it and needs to be replaced. Thanks for your help ahead of time
This video was made 10 years ago at Uncle Doug's house. This is his equipment so it would be best to contact Uncle Doug - I assume you know of him here in El Paso. Hope this helps.
Great post. I've always maintained that the amps were the backbone of tone. I've picked up a gretsch electromaticamp. No obvious stencilled number. Case by suitcase manufacturer; red/brown in color, vol/ tone, leather handle, guessing 5 watts, field effect output,spk is 9844 270111. wondering if you had any info off the top of your head
I have a 6152 Gretsch which I actually replaced the two output tubes but they're running extremely hot can you give me any help in that area. The 6 V6 tube had broken the index Peg and I mistakenly put it in one pin off which is a terrible thing to do. Could I have damaged something that would cause these tubes to run blistering hot?
That would take me a few minutes to figure out... however, if you offset the index, the tube filament did not light up so likely it did no harm. These little 6V6 tubes do run Very hot - between 350 and 450 degrees - they will leave a hurtful burn if you touch them - once you get the tube oriented correctly and you can see both tube filaments lit properly, check that the plate of the tube(s) are Not red hot. If you see no red in the plate, it is probably OK and likely you did no harm.
Well, now that I am thinking about it a little more - if you rotated it clockwise, the filament pins are are on pins 2 and 7 so now they are on 3 and 8 and that shorted the plate lead to the cathode which is probably a cathode biased output. That very well may have either burned up the cathode resistor or shorted the cathode bypass capacitor. That would not be good and would end up shorting the cathode circuit to ground so there is no bias and it would make the tubes run extremely hot and the plates would turn red hot. Check the color of the plates. If you do not see them red, it could be OK. If you rotated it one pin CCW probably nothing at all happened as pin 1 and 6 are open. Pin 6 is often times used as a tie point for the grid-stopper resistor to pin 5 but I can't see how this mistake could have any consequences. Hope this helps.
i'm intetested in these early supro amps for the mid crunch, doesnt sound like you really opened up the Spectator all that much. What would say are the best Supros if you're looking for their best unique mid crunch tone? Thanks
I think matters related to tone are purely subjective, Adam, and my opinion may well differ from yours. I suggest that you listen to a wide variety of Valco amps and choose your own favorite. Best of luck.
Its not only unsafe playing these old amps with the 2 prong but there is also the "DEATH CAP" that needs to be REMOUVED because if the death cap happens to leak then you can get zapped to death
Greetings, AE. We've all heard the dire warnings about the dreaded "Death Cap"....but have you ever personally known ANYONE who was actually killed or injured by one? Millions of vintage amps were sold with two-wire cords and "Death Caps", and to the best of my knowledge, there was no world-wide epidemic of mass electrocutions. Granted, it's a personal choice, but in pristine, original vintage amps like these, in which the capacitors all check out, proper fuses are installed, and the two-wire cords are in perfect shape and fully functional, I tend to leave them alone rather than yield to an unsubstantiated urban legend. I hope this makes sense. Thanks for your input :)
I play/use and gig with a 1958 spectator and it is in good shape and i definately feel safer now that it has been remouved and the cord replaced, especially when you start sweating. Im not sure what the guy did but it is alot less noisy as well
I understand completely, AE. Any amp that is used a lot, especially for public performances, must be as safe and stable as possible. Also, any changes are purely up to the owner. I too have put 3-wire cords on my amps and on customer amps, but on pristine, original vintage amps, I tend to keep them completely original if the cord and circuit check out. If I sell one and the customer prefers a 3-wire cord, then I will install one. It all depends on the age, condition, and owner's preference. Thanks again for your input.
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
I was so pleased and surprised to hear the voice of the great man, Uncle Doug in this video!
Thanks, Stephen. Your luck is much better than mine when it comes to receiving "gifts" from associates. It's good to hear that our little video fostered your enthusiasm for a really neat old amp. Hopefully it will now be displayed and appreciated, rather than hidden in an old, dark closet.
Great presentation. Uncle Doug is amazing.
Yes, he is good. I haven't seen Doug in a couple of years or more. I hope he is doing well. Thanks for your comments.
Nice video. Someone just gave me an old Gretsch 6150 that they have been storing for about 50 years. It even has the sticker on the speaker still. Thanks for the history lesson, I appreciate this beast that much more!
Thanks, Henry. David and I appreciate your kind words.
Cat, thanks for the input. Yes, I have added lots of 3-wire power cords to amps and have never had to modify the amplifier itself. You must be sure that the black "hot" wire (of the three: black, white, and green) goes to the on/off toggle, fuse, and power transformer primary (in that order). The white "neutral" wire goes to the other side of the transformer primary, and the green "ground" is connected directly to the chassis. Good luck !!!
Thanks, John. Your speaker code is for a Quam speaker made in the 11th week of either 1951 or 1961. Since the speaker is electrodynamic (it has a field coil), I would bet on 1951. I suggest that you check out Internet sites dedicated to either Gretsch amps or Valco amps (Valco actually built the amp for Gretsch) and see if you can't find a 1951 or 1952 amp (or schematic) that matches yours. BTW, I have lots of vintage amp videos posted on a companion site.....just click on the icon to the left.
As soon as I heard Uncle Doug I had to subscribe!
Wow, much appreciated! Beautiful amps, I have a Gretsch 6150 so I already know that it's a little tone monster! I like the other's you've shown as well! ~Cheers!
Nice video. Very informative. I bought a nice Gretsch 6150 on Ebay partly because of your video. Thanks.
I appreciate the interest, JRM, but at this time, the only amp in my collection that's for sale is the Teisco Checkmate 17 (a YT video is posted on my channel). Eventually, I'll probably sell them all.....but not for a while.
Great video thanks guys! It's really nice to see these lovely old amps explained and demonstrated in such detail. I can't wait to see that National amp in more detail. It looks really classy. Thanks!
Always appreciate your knowledge and love for Valcos. These sound so spanky and crystal it's just not even funny. Just picked up an old Homebrew mic amp on the extreme cheap and planning a 6150 conversion with it in great part thanks to your tutelage . You know the saying: You keep making these vids, we'll keep watching. Thanks again for being awesome, Uncle Doug.
Thanks for your kind words, AP. Best of luck with your project.
Hey, I'm ALWAYS willing to go the extra mile to help out a fellow tube-head. If I can report on my own disasters and save somebody the expense and grief that I went through, I do it every time. Besides, nobody wants to see those 3 beautiful classics ever come to any harm. You can save the old parts, and put them back if you sell the amps to a collector. They're not as anal about virgin solder joints as the guitar guys are, and you can enjoy your amps with confidence! I'll check the cap meter.
Absolutely brilliant stuff gentlemen ... ))) ... hilarious
I enjoyed looking at these very cool little amps. Thanks!
Its uncle Doug :)
Thanks for your kind appraisal, Chris, and congratulations on your new acquisition. I really think that Gretsch amps were among the very best that Valco ever made. If you click on my icon, I have a test of a really nice Gretsch 6161 on my own channel that you may find interesting. Thanks again !!!
You are the man..The Wizard...great videos..
very nice
is to change over to a 10" or 12" speaker, which "opens up" the amp and provides much better tone and volume. Another consideration is that with guitar amps, the amp may not have tone control but the guitar does. You can easily alter the amp output tone with the guitar tone control. Finally, I have connected very small amps (like those in the video) to huge speaker cabinets (3 x 15" Jensens at 97.4 db each) and the resultant volume and tone were spectacular. I guess "bigger really is better".
Hi I have the Gretsch 6150 and i want to get an attenuator in between the amp and speaker. However i’m not sure about the cable leading to the speaker. It’s not clear which whether Green or Black is the positive/Negative. There’s no +/- marks on the cone either. Would you know this.?
An interesting observation.....my own experience with increasing speaker size (and efficiency) tends to run contrary to this, however. Almost without exception, bigger speakers sound better. Speaker efficiency is based on cone thickness and voice coil mass, with less moving mass = higher efficiency. Larger, more efficient speakers tend to be more dynamic and responsive than smaller, inefficient ones, and move a lot more air. A favorite modifications of old Fender Champ amps (with 8" speakers)..
Nice !! Enjoyed the video !!
I about fainted over that national !!! ... I could plug a y or an a/b switch and run both or split um ... ))) ,,,, Wow , What beast
I absolutely love my 1614 Supro Spectator. But I knew that on/off volume switch was gonna be trouble and it is!!! lol I cleaned it out with some contact cleaner and it worked great for a while but I’m pretty sure I’m gonna have to have it replaced. 😢
Thanks for the follow-up, JP. Have you seen the new ESR meters that are now available (at reasonable prices)? They take a lot of the mystery out of electrolytic capacitor health. I bought one and made a video about its use with old amps. I think you might find it interesting. Regardless, thanks for your input. I really appreciate it.
Good questions! First, the sure sign that an electrolytic capacitor has seen better days is a little blister, that looks kind of like a wart, on the positive end of the cap. that means that the electrolyte has dried up and a dead short is waiting to happen. Second, My own ignorance at the time contributed to my disaster. Although I had the right fuse, (750ma), I kept putting new ones in and they stayed on for 5-10 seconds before blowing. this most likely was enough to kill it.
such beauty
Thanks, Ian :)
The inside of the Supro looks varnished!
I sure can't comment on this. Uncle Doug has his own channel but during these early days he posted a few videos on my channel of some really nice instruments.
I read somewhere that Joe Walsh grew up playing Gretsch amps.
that tolex man so nice
I agree....they do a good job on these little jewels.
Was there any warning that the filter caps in the Tremolux were failing.....or were they dead quiet one day and dead shorted the next ?? Also, I would have thought that the fuse would have prevented such catastrophic destruction. Was the amp properly fused?
Hi guys , would you be able to guide me to a website on how to build the first amp you looked at . i'm an absolute beginner at amp building . thank you .
You really ought to replace the filter caps on all 3 of those amps. 50+ years is way too long for any electrolytic capacitor. If one of them gives up the ghost, you risk catastrophic failure. I had the filters short out on a Tweed Tremolux, and they smoked both transformers and a pair of vintage N.O.S. RCA black plate 6V6 tubes, plus a nice G.E. rectifier. $40 worth of new Sprague Atoms would've saved me over $350 in repair costs. It's o.k. now, but it was an expensive.and frustrating lesson.
I have a 1964 Gretsch 6150.
Thanks for the advice on installing new caps.
Great presentation! I have the Gretsch 6150 and i want to get an attenuator in between the amp and speaker. However i’m not sure about the cable leading to the speaker. It’s not clear which whether Green or Black is the positive/Negative. There’s no +/- marks on the cone either. Would you know this.?
This video was made at Uncle Doug's house before he started posting on UA-cam so you should contact him for this information.
either way works but black is positive and green is negative
Would you happen to know the speaker ohms? Thanks.
I'm trying to find how many ohms there are in the 8 inch Jensen speaker for the Gretsch 6150 is it either 4 or 8. The speaker has a tear in it and needs to be replaced. Thanks for your help ahead of time
This video was made 10 years ago at Uncle Doug's house.
This is his equipment so it would be best to contact Uncle Doug - I assume you know of him here in El Paso.
Hope this helps.
mine are all 4 ohm but they had two transformer options so you can double check the codes.. or disconnect and measure the speaker.
Is there any way I can get a copy of the schematics for the Supro? Its the golden ticket I have been looking for.
Great post. I've always maintained that the amps were the backbone of tone. I've picked up a gretsch electromaticamp. No obvious stencilled number. Case by suitcase manufacturer; red/brown in color, vol/ tone, leather handle, guessing 5 watts, field effect output,spk is 9844 270111. wondering if you had any info off the top of your head
I have a 6152 Gretsch which I actually replaced the two output tubes but they're running extremely hot can you give me any help in that area. The 6 V6 tube had broken the index Peg and I mistakenly put it in one pin off which is a terrible thing to do. Could I have damaged something that would cause these tubes to run blistering hot?
That would take me a few minutes to figure out... however, if you offset the index, the tube filament did not light up so likely it did no harm. These little 6V6 tubes do run Very hot - between 350 and 450 degrees - they will leave a hurtful burn if you touch them - once you get the tube oriented correctly and you can see both tube filaments lit properly, check that the plate of the tube(s) are Not red hot. If you see no red in the plate, it is probably OK and likely you did no harm.
Well, now that I am thinking about it a little more - if you rotated it clockwise, the filament pins are are on pins 2 and 7 so now they are on 3 and 8 and that shorted the plate lead to the cathode which is probably a cathode biased output. That very well may have either burned up the cathode resistor or shorted the cathode bypass capacitor. That would not be good and would end up shorting the cathode circuit to ground so there is no bias and it would make the tubes run extremely hot and the plates would turn red hot. Check the color of the plates. If you do not see them red, it could be OK. If you rotated it one pin CCW probably nothing at all happened as pin 1 and 6 are open. Pin 6 is often times used as a tie point for the grid-stopper resistor to pin 5 but I can't see how this mistake could have any consequences. Hope this helps.
i'm intetested in these early supro amps for the mid crunch, doesnt sound like you really opened up the Spectator all that much. What would say are the best Supros if you're looking for their best unique mid crunch tone? Thanks
I think matters related to tone are purely subjective, Adam, and my opinion may well differ from yours. I suggest that you listen to a wide variety of Valco amps and choose your own favorite. Best of luck.
What amp is the national?
Is the Supro for sale?
Uncle Doug!
Hey Uncle Doug are any of your amps for sale?
ElPaso TubeAmps I can find his email. Can you help me ? Thanks
Its not only unsafe playing these old amps with the 2 prong but there is also the "DEATH CAP" that needs to be REMOUVED because if the death cap happens to leak then you can get zapped to death
Greetings, AE. We've all heard the dire warnings about the dreaded "Death Cap"....but have you ever personally known ANYONE who was actually killed or injured by one? Millions of vintage amps were sold with two-wire cords and "Death Caps", and to the best of my knowledge, there was no world-wide epidemic of mass electrocutions. Granted, it's a personal choice, but in pristine, original vintage amps like these, in which the capacitors all check out, proper fuses are installed, and the two-wire cords are in perfect shape and fully functional, I tend to leave them alone rather than yield to an unsubstantiated urban legend. I hope this makes sense. Thanks for your input :)
I play/use and gig with a 1958 spectator and it is in good shape and i definately feel safer now that it has been remouved and the cord replaced, especially when you start sweating. Im not sure what the guy did but it is alot less noisy as well
I understand completely, AE. Any amp that is used a lot, especially for public performances, must be as safe and stable as possible. Also, any changes are purely up to the owner. I too have put 3-wire cords on my amps and on customer amps, but on pristine, original vintage amps, I tend to keep them completely original if the cord and circuit check out. If I sell one and the customer prefers a 3-wire cord, then I will install one. It all depends on the age, condition, and owner's preference. Thanks again for your input.