Why are British place names so hard to pronounce?
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- Опубліковано 13 гру 2020
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Written, presented and edited by
JAY FOREMAN @jayforeman
MARK COOPER-JONES @markcooperjones
Director/DOP
JADE NAGI @jade_nagi
Thanks for help with graphics
PETER HAYES
Wacky Wheels music by
MARK KLEM
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original video: • Blue Gras In Hillbilly... - Комедії
Pronouncing english names is easy. Pronounce the word like you think it should be pronounced, then repeat it faster and faster until you've swallowed three syllables. That's the actual pronunciation
You can speed up the process by drinking a few pints of bitter.
Isn't it how pronunciation works in general in most languages?
@@whoeverest_the_whateverest No. Lots of languages are fairly regular in their pronunciation. If you know how to spell something in, for example, French, German or Welsh, you can be pretty certain of the pronunciation. That is not true at all of English. There are also languages such as Chinese where you cannot derive any useful information about the pronunciation from the spelling so you don't even have a starting point unless you already know the word.
@@joshuarosen6242 yeah no.
@@deservingcomplexionm8111 no yeah.
“Excuse me can you mispronounce Frome for me”
“Portsmouth”
Poursmuff I think you'll find thanks very much!
That’ll do!
@Tyler Yuan Frome!
@Tyler Yuan Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch.
I spat my tea out at this one....Hilarious !!!
I moved to the UK 40 years ago and about 5 years in, I was invited to a party in Toaster. Being without satnav back then, I looked it up in a map but couldn’t find it. I was assured it was easy to find and signposted off of the M1. Just head north.
I let out an “ohhhhhhh!” when I saw the sign for Towcester.
the only solution, of course, is to invite back the Romans.
your food will get better if nothing else
I once heard a story about an Australian hitchhiker in the UK who was asking for a ride to "Loo-ger-bar-oo-ger"
After much head scratching from the locals they realised he was wanting to get to Loughborough! (pronounced Luffburuh) 😀
Loughborough?
It's pronounced more like Luff-Bruh... Bruh... I'm an Indian and had a hard time wrapping my head around it..
@@00comrade enlighten me
@@00comrade you silly pickle
@@00comrade ye
"Could you misprounounce Frome for me?"
"Portsmouth"
"that'll do"
They actually already did that joke in this video, so you're not being original. Thanks though.
@@timh2356 are you stupid or acting dumb?
@@williamg209two normally people like them don't respond as they normally realise (or not) that they just made a r/wooosh
As a cyclist i thought froome in my heade because that came to my head yet i was still surprised by it
@@williamg209two He's not saying "Oh, didn't you realize that comment was from the video?" He's saying "Repeating a joke from the video isn't funny." I don't quite agree (While it's not funny in a "let me tell you a joke" way, it is a shortened way of saying "I liked that line, did you like it too?" which I don't see a problem with.), but I wouldn't say he missed the joke. If anything, you misunderstood him.
I once saw something that said "English is what happens when Vikings learn Latin and use it to yell at Germans"
no, it's when the French hear Vikings shouting Latin at Germans.
@@psychodrummer1567 no, it's when anglo-saxons watch vikings and romans yell at germans
my favorite is "English doesnt borrows from other languaga, it drags them to dark alley where it beats them and robs them while heavily breathing in their ears"
More like, "When Celts learn Latin then German and use Old Norse to yell at French Vikings..." 🤔
Modern english is 'spelled' - the ruling caste fiddle with the words - for manipulative cultural disintegration effects.
Now they tell people that the commoners used to be as nasty as the ruling caste are ... having destroyed the old culture, and schooled everyone, they now control the stories ... and the narrative of today too ...
Frama, located in Cantabria, northern Spain is the very same celtic word that turned into Frome in England. In the heart of the Liebana Valley, Frama is visited by hundreds of British tourists who ignore this point altogether.
Saxons, eh?
I mean, how should they know or even guess?
@@elpapa68 By watching Map Men and reading the youtube comments, of course!
Didn't you watch the video? We don't have time to acknowledge such things! The tea market doesn't monopolise itself!
I don't know if it's the double margarita I just had, but "BELGIC OPPIDVM which was sensibly renamed 'Braintree'" has me quite literally in tears of laughter. You guys are geniuses.
There is a village called 'brain creek' in Austria and a town called 'cat's brain' in Germany
NOT THE BOPPIDUM
@@manmanman2000there's a Catbrain in Bristol too, near Cribbs.
We have one in Massachusetts, USA as well. Whatta name.
My favourite thing about Braintree is that there's a 'secret nuclear bunker' which is signposted everywhere on official road signage
"contain nonsensical phonetic traps that are impossible to predict"
That should be a warning on English language textbooks.
*May contain
:D
And yes. Have a like
Not suitable for use as a lawnmower.
No you haven’t now brush ya teeth m.ua-cam.com/video/OEuaNorcY1c/v-deo.html
:-)
He said British not English , you are so wrong I won't even bother explaining.
"Could you mispronounce Frome for me?"
"Portsmouth."
"That'll do."
That joke was made even funnier by Mark deciding to wear a wig very briefly for no reason.
Should've said Ports-Mouth xD
yes. the very brief reasonless wig wearer's wig.
It's Pompey, anyway.
Had a Fry and Laurie feel to it. Amazing.
i come from a place called thisvideoisshit
"Mousehole"
"Braintree"
"Speen"
Gosh I love the UK
My personal favourite is Wye in Kent. Love hearing it come up as though the bus or the news are having an existential crisis
Actually, Welsh place names are very easy to pronounce. The spelling is consistent. There are only 15 or so pronunciation rules and almost no exceptions. (Except for Hirwaun, which should be pronounced heer wine but the locals say er-win)
I agree, but there's a caveat...
Many place names contain the same word as others, or are just very similar. Like 'Hirwaun' and 'Hirwaen' for example; but there's loads.
Not to mention the fact that a lot of the names are also just words for certain things; like 'LLan', which is 'Church.' So it kinda just adds difficulty of another kind, rather than pronunciation
Oh God... I prefer to use the generic name "That place in Wales" for all Welsh towns.
@@Evan490BC Welsh is purely phonetic, unlike English. If you are not interested in what the names MEAN, you can learn how to pronounce them fairly quickly. And unlike English those pronunciation rules stay the same.
The most important thing people need to remember is that the Welsh Alphabet is very different to the English Alphabet. People often complain Welsh has too few vowels for example, it has 7 compared to 5 for English (Y and W are vowels in Welsh, not consonants).
Also some sounds are represented by two letters, LL for example, there are others including CH, NG, FF and DD.
When you realise for example that Llan is not four letters, but three, with the LL having a specific sound it starts to make more sense. I have less trouble with Welsh place names than with English because of the huge number of pronunciation traps in English, which literally do not exist in Welsh....
Also helps I speak Welsh.... But for pronunciation that does not matter. You can learn how to pronounce Welsh fairly easily without having to learn to understand it.
@@alganhar1 Thank you very much for your detailed explanation! I must say learning how to pronounce Welsh sounds tempting. I will give it a try!
i agree however, the welsh language is a sin so no
This is basically adult Horrible Histories and I’m not complaining
But adult Horrible Histories is Horrible Histories
Underrated comment XD
...Portsmouth
@@BennyJ69 Yes.
but better
An extra 'map' this time. I see you like to keep us on our toes.
HOLY HOLY!!! I can proudly say that I have the two HOTTEST women on this planet as MY GIRLFRIENDS! I am the unprettiest UA-camr ever, but they love me for what's inside! Thanks for listening thomas
I think this is the third time they've done it
@@reimarpb Really? I thought they usually repeated the word 'men'.
@@AxxLAfriku Axxl really should be blocked from most channels, it's basically just a spambot. @Jay Foreman
Spoilers!
Love how knowing languages can teach you even more things hidden in plain sight. Learning Norwegian made me realise that kirk is church and gate is street. So when I realised there was a street called Kirkgate, I went to google to see if it was literally church street, and it was!
"Church" is "kirk" in Scots too.
In Dutch it’s kerk. Only the vowel is different.
I live in New England in the USA and we have many towns and cities named after those in England - and yes, we use the same English pronunciation which drives those from outside of New England - crazy. But i love it. 😇
Usually but not always. Berkeley is not pronounced Barkley. Hartford came from Hertford but spelled with an a.
As a midwesterner who lived in the Boston area for a couple of years, I (quite sensibly) thought "Peabody" was pronounced like "pea body" and "Leominster" was pronounced "leo min ster." My new neighbors found this briefly confusing and then hilarious ("Do you mean 'pee buddy' and 'lemon stir'?").
I'm from Nova Scotia, and when I mention places like Truro, Weymouth, Dartmouth, Preston, Halifax, Liverpool (my home town!), Chester, Yarmouth, Colchester, Richmond, and others, you'd think I was talking about England. But the British tourists love seeing these places!
@@davidyoung5114 I love the name, Halifax, for some reason.
@@kenb3552 And did you know that a person from Halifax is called a Haligonian?
Fun fact: Cirencester used to be pronounced "Sissister." Fun lie: if you use the True Pronunciation of Cirencester, you can control anyone from there.
Been watching LOTS of your channel lately! Big fan!! :D
@@JayForeman Thanks! I feel like Elvis just complimented my karaoke performance.
I knew it! :D
Needed more Loughborough
Jago I love you
Programmers: Ransomware
People from England: Rampisham-ware
(slow clap)
@@samgamgee6508 I have achieved comedy.
@@MTRfundamentalist that's a good one hahaha
@@MTRfundamentalist
Achievement unlocked!
Comedy
Programmers and English people, the two genders.
I remember visiting your fair country and asking for directions to Southwark, pronouncing it like it is written. The guy looked completely confused, like he couldn't comprehend why anyone would say it that way.
Perhaps we should just invade and give all your places proper Scandinavian names again. :-)
I'm not sure what you mean by 'like it is written'. I'd probably pronounce it as rhyming with jerk. South werk. Probably based on the city of Newark New Jersey. What about you?
It's spelled "throatwarbler mangrove" but pronounced "Raymond luxury yacht"!
1:49 "Mousehole" being pronouced "Mou-sel" MUST have been the inspiration for "Not Weaseltown its prounouced 'Weselton'!"
Didn't expect the Liam Dutton nails pronouncing Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch parody, but I'm happy it's there.
Me too
Original video for those curious:👌
ua-cam.com/video/fHxO0UdpoxM/v-deo.html
Well, he also was doing sort of a parody.
That's the very video I used to learn it
@@ChallengeCommander He gets the ending slightly wrong.
These guys are the best at getting people to watch sponsorship
It's not even a competition, they dominate the field.. like a very assertive rabbit
2nd only to Erik from Internet Comment Etiquette
I got told in school the Normans also changed a lot of Anglo-Saxon place names that they struggled to pronounce, and were responsible for a lot of the shortening. They were also responsible for the very creative name “Newcastle”, named after the new castle they built there 😂.
The city I'm from was originally called "Castell Newydd ar y Wysg" which is literally a description of what was there at the time. This got shortened down to "Casnewydd". In English, it's "Newport", for some reason. there are a few explanations (wikipedia suggests the old port was the Roman one in caerleon) but as far as We're concerned it's totally unknown why it's called that. there wasn't even a dock there at the time.
Wie have like 200 places called "Neustadt" in germany...("New city"). Founding new cities was all the rage in the 13th century.
@@siarhian10maybe some medieval humour in there
Nobody:
Cars in eastern Somerset: "vrome vrome"
Criminally underrated, this comment
East Somerset represent!
@@peterjackson2697 yessirrr
amazing
Haha cars go vrrrrome
Tom Scott and Map Men within 20 minutes of each other.
Yes
I been getting into some Jago Hazzard recently too (and he's super prolific)
@@plebjames Jago's Dire Straits video was so good
truly a blessed day
The 2 map men and Tom Scott: the British holy trinity
When you work in call centres, you can really impress people by learning how to pronounce (and spell!) places like Corstorphine, Launceston and Bleanau Ffestiniog (though since it's been a while, I did have to check the last one).
Laaanson not Launston and definitely not Launceston
This is brilliant. My wife has trouble with many places in the UK and she was born here like me! The worst thing is when locals have their own pronunciations like Bolsover which the locals pronounce 'Bo'ser' or Cudworth pronounced 'Cudderth' or Rainworth being 'Rennerth'. It still gets me how Americans say 'Edinborrow' for Edinburgh. They just can't get that it's the same as 'burra' (..borough). Great video guys!!
Edinburgh is sneaky for Americans since -burgh and -burg are pronounced /bɝɡ/ like iceberg in General American English. Edinburgh with US spelling would be written as Edinborough, or Edinboro.
Despite knowing the proper pronunciation, I can't help but read it as Edin berg, in my head.
It's pronounced "Eddin-bruh", not "Eddin-burra".
@@welcomeback2mychannel 'Burgh' in Scotland is the same as 'Borough' in England hence why it should be pronounced as such. Depending where you come from in the UK you might pronounce it slightly different but its still not pronounced 'borrow' like Americans think. If you listen to railway station announcements they pronounce it 'Edinburra'' or 'Edinbra'. I think they'd have trouble with Hawick , Berwick on Tweed and Kirkcudbright as well.
@@sugarbertie1143 ... which is also pronounced "bruh". I don't listen to yanks on anything language related, dw.
@@sugarbertie1143probably. Kirkcudbright is a place I visited a few times as a child, so I know how to pronounce it, but probably a lot of people I know, if I asked them, they'd get it wrong.
Now, the four 'Map's in the beginning is *INTERESTING* .
*is the best version
And there are normally tthree "men"s, right? They only did two this time
As was Jays pronunciation of Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch, bet he practiced 40 hours a day for that
@@niceperson180 the three men are actually the variation
@@BlueGangsta1958 Sacrilegious
the -cester cities seem pretty manageable when you find out that Cholmondeley is pronounced chumly (/tʃʌmli/)
Gumster
Keith leigh
Wymondham
Wind-um
Depends on the family-some call ithemselves Chumley, and others Cholmondeley: same with Featherstonehaugh, which can be pronounced as written, or if from the 'other' family, Fanshaw: ditto Powell which can be as written, or pronounced Pole!
Remarkably, Boris Badenov taught me how to pronounce Cholmondeley almost exactly sixty years ago.
Chumly?
C H U M L Y ?!
How have I only just discovered this?! Impressively well written, timed and delivered comedy, whilst also being educational! Nice work!
2:49 the w is silent 😂 underrated joke
"Which was sensibly renamed to Braintree"
I'm in tears 😂
i still dont get why it was named braintree out of all things
@@jamm6_514 the name ‘ Braintree’ is just intrinsically funny, like ‘Penge’.
If you thought that Braintree was a bad name, you ain't heard of one of it's gants names, as the gant near the newsagents in the town centre is called "pig's head in the pottage pot gant". Annoyingly it ain't on Google street view but the sign is located on the red brick wall opposite.
@@jamm6_514 seems like a corruption of the original Celtic name for the place after the Roman name was no longer used.
Having worked in Braintree, they should have changed it to brain death!
"Could you mispronounce Frome for me?"
"Portsmouth!"
"That'll do."
That bit got me so good I had to pause the video for a couple minutes to finish my laughing fit.
An open letter to Loughborough:
Dear Loughborough.
Seriously? The "lough" rhymes with tough? No other place in your country does that as far as we know, so your name feels like a prank. Are you sure? Please check your records just to make sure.
With love, America
He should have pronounced it "Port's Mouth". Not only because "mispronouncing a completely different city" is funny, but because, American here, that's how I pronounced it for an embarrassing number of years, and it would just make me feel better. ... or worse, come to think of it.
@@robspiess I think there are plenty of Portsmouths in America.
@@NexebNoXV To be fair, the US has a couple weird ones, as well.
Arkansas, for example. Especially bad since Kansas is a thing.
Llanfairsomething
Your adverts are just as fun to watch as your shows! I never sit and watch all the advertisements but with your channel, I always do! Great job!
6:51 only Jay Foreman can break the fourth wall to make the story more believable
"which was sensibly renamed Braintree" why did that make me laugh the most?
Big up the btown massive 😂
So many of these names exist in Massachusetts, as you can imagine. There's a Braintree in the Boston area.
I mean Braintree is way nicer than Skegness(the physical manifestation of the word shit) or many other horrid places in Britain such as Wales or Hell I mean Milton Keynes, or the home of depression... Luton...
I keep imagining a tree with brains growing on it instead of fruits...
@@electron8262 come to the town and you’ll realise no brains grow here 😂
Once heard an American man on a train very patiently saying “no mother it’s pronounced ‘Ip-sich’, they don’t pronounce the W here” when he and his mum were on the way to Ipswich. He would have been right for 99% of the words with a similar ending...
@Rodolfo Ramos Anker. ;)
As someone from Ipswich, I’ve never noticed anyone say it wrong, but now can’t get this out of my head 🤣
ough can be pronounced many ways so Slough (where my wife's cousins lived) was often pronounced 'Sluff' but the best pronounciation (by an American on the bus) was Slug.
@@joshporter741 its pronounced ippy
@@konrad7572 Uppa Townnnnn buhhhh
Both of you radiate a huge amount of stephen fry & hugh laurie energy.
Brilliant! I remember when I first arrived in the UK and got teased on how I'd pronuce Leicester or Gloucester, mind you I already spoke and read fluent English 😂 and as a sensible adult what I did was, of course, tease my visiting English -speaking friends into the same game, except now I have no idea how to pronounce Southwark like a foreigner 😱 but I can still laugh at the botched attempts
I'm loving the prediction on the evolution of place names.
2000 "W'ster"
2200 "Wrr"
2400 "Beep Boop Boop"! 🤣
If you think that's funny, go watch the movie Idiocracy. :-)
@@AndrewTJackson the most passive aggressive insult ever lololol
@@junio0o768 I'm not insulting @Lizz, I'm recommending a good movie! :-)
@@AndrewTJackson ok sure
A Homo niewiadomo (a new 2400 species of human) individual: What is the way to Beep Boop Boop?
"Bugger off, u're not from round 'ere" - Frome Resident
Close enough
Bugger off and brush your teeth m.ua-cam.com/video/OEuaNorcY1c/v-deo.html
Wasson then cocker!
@Tran Ma bugger orf shurly?
@Tran Ma Frome* :D
OMG you guys are literally perfect! I'm a brazillian watching it and it is so so fun haha
This is hilarious! Can't how much time and effort went into recording this. Glad I came across this channel!
Judgement day has come. Jay is uploading semi regularly.
I have two hot UA-camr girlfriends and I am the best UA-camr ever and YOUR savior. Good bye dear aidna
Judgement day is 2200-2400 accordingt to this video... when it changes from Wrr to "Beep Boop Boop"
Two map men episodes within one month??? The end is nigh
Coincidentally I am also semi regular
At least the end will be a bit sweeter
As an american, I was having trouble understanding the video, but after that "yippie kay-ay" I get it now. Thank you Map Men for great translations.
Head up to New England for a little taste. Take a quick drive between Worcester (Woostah) and Leominster (Lemon-stir).
@@pseudotasuki I am a New Englander lol
@@christopherdeangelis6383 Well… okay. Fair enough.
+@@pseudotasuki I always got so pissed at Worcester's pronunciation, but 5:33 kinda helped me understand though. I'm finally at peace.
@@christopherdeangelis6383 Me, as actual American: 💀
First video from your channel I've seen. You guys are... intense. I've never seen a UA-cam VPN ad that didn't suck before.
I really appreciate you all. You guys are so helpful and interesting.
“Yipikaywee, buckaroo!”
Someone please, PLEASE make a t-shirt of this
@The smore emperor just visit Braintree and get one lol
Darn tootin indeed
The only channel where the AD VERTs are just as good as the rest of the video.
If you enjoy funny ads, you should check out internet comment etiquette with Erik. Btw i love your videos mr. Beat, you're my favorite social studies teacher.
Second to internet historian I'd say.
I see that you too are a man of culture, Mr. Beat.
Ad-verts, ad-verts
Ad-ad-ad-verts verts
(Verts)
Also Drew Gooden does really funny adverts
This video is absolutely incredible!!!
THANK YOU!!
I love this channel and his british humour
Looks like Jay's just started his fourth year at Hogwarts
“Harry potter and the year no-one got a haircut”
I wonder if he is related to daniel radcliffe.
@@iaw7406 no
@@AlecWindmiller they have a similar ethnic background and they do look similar so its unlikely but still possible that they are related.
@@iaw7406 Everyone is related to everyone else if you go back long enough.
probably my favourite video you've ever done
@avantgardevegan It's also one of the most vegan videos they've ever done. 😊 Hope you are well, Gaz. 💜
Oh, there's at least 5 better mapmen videos than this!
Ure gae
i mean you're not wrong
jay went out of his way and spent ages learning how to pronounce llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch though
that's brilliant
Favorite*
Sorry, as an American, I just had to do it
I didn’t realise there were that many Scandinavian place names in a England. I checked the map of Eastern England with that of the Danish peninsula and I cou”d see dozens of places in England with similar sounding place names in Denmark or vice versa
It's the video I didn't know I wanted the most. Both for form and content. Thanks !
I was kindly corrected by a nice old lady at the York train station "love, Birming-ham is in Ahlah-bahma, Birming'um is in England" I grinned and said "And Birming-ham is in Ala-bama" She called me cheeky lol. She was alone so joined me and my family for a coffee and we talked for an hour. Good memory of England.
Aw :)
Us Yorkies are nice folks. Glad you had a lovely experience.
Nah, I think American English is weirder (despite being more mainstream nowadays), I would never notice that a person saying Ahlah-bahma is saying anything wrong.
@@LovelyAngel. You would be deemed quite a fancy if you pronounced it that way. The truer southern pronounceation would be closer to owl-la-bama.
@@LovelyAngel. Eh, pronunciations all over the world are weird in some way. There are definitely non-phonetic ones in the US that only a native or someone who’s been here long enough would immediately know, but I think some of these British pronunciations are bonkers and hella non-intuitive, so like they say in the video, you can’t blame a non-native for assuming it’s pronounced one way when really it’s said a completely different way that doesn’t align with basic English spelling/pronunciation rules.
The way I see it, and this goes for everyone, is that if one is so insistent on a visitor pronouncing something the local way, I’d hope they’re polite enough to make an effort to pronounce it the _other_ local way if they ever find themselves in that other part of the world, rather than claiming their one pronunciation is the “right” one.
Subscribed after "Could you mispronounce Frome for me?" "Portsmouth."
Me too
Liar
imagine listing to imagine but being covered by imagine dragons and this is left on for no good reason //ua-cam.com/video/fVJKfsRXUiw/v-deo.html
@@harroldyoungling1481 why would I listen to Imagine Dragons
The UA-cam algorithm has blessed me. These videos are so terrific, thank you! I’m from New England in the US and used to think that I had a leg up on pronouncing town/city names that don’t make sense when seeing them spelled out (Peabody, Gloucester, Haverhill, etc). But the OG England wins.
Excellent material!! Thank you both 🧡🧡🧡🧡
This is a 100% accurate depiction of how Brits see Americans.
And Australians?
I'm an American and your impression impressed me. You pretty much nailed it. Yee haw!
Brits have eyes between their tooth gaps
@@Alkatross Ah, but he didn't get to the few exceptions, such as for those of us from New York City who periodically throw in a EYYY I'M WALKIN HEAHHH to our YEEHAWs
@@DeusSalis but do either of them have tooth gaps, also every child in England that has wonky teeth get braces free, completely free. About 30 percent of brits get braces
As a danish person, I have a hard time taking Grimsby serious.
Yes, Grim was a name, but in danish today, we use the word "Grim" when talking about something ugly (an ugly house = et grimt hus).
With "by" meaning Village, Grimsby basically translates to "Ugly Village".
If you go there you would understand!!!
That's pretty much what it means in modern English too. Grim could be used in "grim tidings" (bad news) or "mate, that's grim!" (that is disgusting) etc.
@@Afreon Just like Grimmauld Place in the Harry Potter stories is supposed to sound like 'Grim Old Place'
Hard to take your comment seriously when the place isn't called Grimtsby
@@barbaralloyd7993 I strongly suspect you never have.
Thanks guys. Another fun and informative video.
Excellent video. Loved it
It is true, every morning I wake up here in America and yell "ZIPPITY DOO DA!!"
i wake up to the smell of maple syrup in canada
@@MsZsc freshly delivered by your mail moose i assume?
And it is true here in Australia that we wake up and shout 'Wooloomooloo', as we all do.
@@evedaser24 Fairilee dinkabum, matey!
"Frome" would have been pronounced correctly by any English speaker around Shakespeare's time. The /oυ/ diphtong the letter o makes when followed by a consonant and a silent e is quite recent, and was pronounced /u/ in Early Modern English. That includes the name "Rome", which was pronounced identically to the word "room". Shakespeare has a pun on that in one of his historical plays: "here we are in Rome, and room enough".
Ah, really? I was assuming that Frome was one of those examples where "u" got closed over to distinguish it from the vertical lines of the adjacent m (similar to "sun"->"son", "wunder"->"wonder" etc)
Oh crap that's interesting. In Arabic Rome is pronounced as 'room'. Wonder if it's related.
For 'Rome' this is likely true, but other words would not typically have been pronounced as /u:/. /oʊ/ was pronounced /ɔ:/ before the Great Vowel Shift, so /u:/ would not have been on its normal trajectory (we have some direct evidence for this; Shakespeare rhymes "alone" with "gone," which wouldn't have been homophonous with "goon").
was different, because the Old English variant already existed.
@@major7thsharp11 you telling me Old English wrote Rome as Rūm? How did they get there? I mean that's also how the Arabs wrote it.
@@XaliberDeathlock The Arabs wrote it like that because Classical Arabic didn't have an /o:/ vowel, so they used the closest vowel they had. The similarity to Rūm in Old English dialects is just cosmetic, I'm afraid.
This is the one channel I will ALWAYS watch the ad segments for
I just moved to Boston and this helps me greatly.
Can't wait in 2200 people will just say, "can you hand me that Wrrrrr sauce?"
I have some Wrrr sauce in my kitchen cabinet.
Thanks to a grandson's mispronunciation we now call it "Shoosher sauce" in my family.
Cyu hn m’tht wrr sos
@@hecatium4473 Sos!
Americans already do that
“Tourists who get it wrong risk being imprisoned, or killed”
😅😂😂😂
If that law became official then every American visiting Britain will be in prison by now
@Gizio the Jackal al'n w'k
Or sent to Australia
Sad. Many such cases.
@@AdamTheMan1993 Not a place name, but every history podcast by Americans pronounce Geoffrey as Joffrey.
Brilliant video! I was too scared to pronounce places out loud when i visited. We went to the Oxford area to see family. I'm American but my wife is a Spaniard and her sister lives in the UK with ber bf. Also went to bath. Cheers!
Love your humor!
The lady Matilda de Belvoir
was such a persistent decelvoir
that the Bishop of Leicester,
although he confeicester,
would seldom, if ever, belelvoir.
Why is this place called Beve...
I live in Leicester, and have found that even some people born here, get that one wrong😀
That is the most crazy poem I've ever read.
Doesn't look like it should work but it does amongst other things
@@2760ade I live in Leicester and I've never seen this poem before but it's brilliant 🤣
For those finding this difficult to read:
The lady Matilda de Belvoir
Was such a persistent deceiver
That the Bishop of Leicester,
Although he confessed her,
Would seldom, if ever, believe her.
“Wrr” is if you’re feeling posh. Most locals just make a low guttural grunt.
Sorry I ruined your 69 likes
@@theoceanistblu9346 Haha funi sex number
Oh wow I'd never heard of this channel, but between being a hopeless linguistics nerd and your dry humor, I'm DYING! You two are phenomenal, keep it up
When I lived in Nottingham, I kept saying the village of Southwell as it was spelled, but would be corrected every time... "Suthle"
"Try this one: Frome."
*lives about 10 miles away*
init i was surprised thats the most mispronounced
Somerset is number one!
@@YTPEXPERT I'm actually across the border in Wiltshire.
I'm from Manchester yet I knew how to pronounce Frome. I just like knowing stuff, but I draw the line at Celtic names.
There's always an exception to any rule (not necessarily, but it's a good get out).
@@Sceadusawol I did suspect this. Still... Somerset is number one!
2:35 , sandwich is a town near me, and fun fact there is also a place called ham nearby. there is coincidentally a sign half way between the 2 that says 'ham sandwich' on it, and is also the most stolen sign in england
I thought that honour belonged to the village of Penistone? (penn-is-ton) t
the sign is now a literal piece of granite
@@Ravenesque There's loads of Penistone signs and most don't get stolen - basically because there's fuck all there, aside from the name to laugh at! Source: used to live there, still find it funny.
Is 'Lost' in Scotland ? I believe hat was/is famous for losing signs.
@@millomweb ...As is 'Fanny Street', in Saltaire.
@@nicholasalexander4743 Titus' daughter ?
So glad UA-cam recommended this to me, you guys are so funny.
4:23 So nice having my town name put in here! Love from Braintree, US!
I grew up near Haultwick which is pronounced: “Artic” they just threw letters out at random and stuck with it.
Lool
As far as I can tell, the letters are still there, but the sounds have been lost.
had a really good laugh at 1:25 hahahahaha
I loved your tom scott video, who is next ?
What's next? Basically A Jay Foreman Video?
Oh hi, Matt!
@@AVeryRandomPerson hopefully
The fact that Matt watches MapMen is one of the least surprising things I've ever heard
Best one yet. Familiar feeling as a new resident of Massachusetts
One of the videos of all time.
Street survey/Portsmouth had me rolling on the floor.^^
I’ve never seen a video that simultaneously is so relevant to my interests content wise and fits my stupid sense of humour so perfectly...
What's worse is when those Welsh place names transplanted over to America where they somehow manage to get even *more* mispronounced
Whats worse is that places that sound exactly how you say it and mispronounced anyway e.g. Bangor. Despite what southern english think its not "Ban-ger" from Bangers and mash.
I've just been exploring New England in Google Maps and came across Swanzey. I mean, seriously? Still, if it gets people to pronounce it right, that's one thing, I suppose.
@@dropit7694 Bangor in Wales or Bangor in Northern Ireland? Similarly, there are Newcastles in England, Ireland, and Northern Ireland.
Bangor? I hardly even know 'or.
@@qwertyTRiG There's also a Bangor Maine.
I. Am. Stunned.
As hilarious and funny as it is informative and helpful - never seen this blend being served so well and spot-on. This is how an infotainment UA-cam channel should be set up. Absolutely great stuff. Liked and subscirbed, for sure 👍👍👌👌✌✌
We live near Washington D.C., and I have aways gotten a kick out of some of the stops on the Metro--Taneytown is pronounced Tawneytown, and Grosvenor is Groves-ner.
I swear they added another "map" in the intro.
The do it a lot, watch season 1 of map men and they do little variations on the intro all the time
And removed a man
The city of Gotham is so corrupt, only goatman could save them all.
I live 5 mins from there, it’s in Nottingham, and btw we see goatman on a daily basis I honestly don’t know what we would do without him
Did-- did you just make a HermitCraft reference?
Doc.
You goatme. XD
The buses there have the batman symbol on them, just to add to the confusion 😂
I was hitching in Wales in 1978 and was at some crossroads trying to find my way to Dolgellau. So I pronounced it the way I read it when asking which way to go, "Pardon me, sir (or madam), which road do I take to Doll-gel-ow?" and no one seemed to know! I remember thinking, "for crying out loud, it can't be five miles away, how have you people never heard of this place?!" Finally, I showed the map to someone and he said, "Oh! You mean Doll-geshly!" So I learned that a double LL in welsh is kind of a "Schl" sound. Later on in Fishguard waiting for the overnight ferry to Ireland, my travelling companion and I were seated at a table with a very welcoming and fun Welsh couple. She ordered waffles for her dinner. I said that, in the States, we have waffles for breakfast. She turned to her husband and said, "I told you they do everything backwards over there!"🤣
I just watched this again, and I found it quite informative! Thanks for the video!
Also, nice "English language", and (as an American) nice American accents in the ad!
I feel like the people who conducted that Frome survey weren't asking people to pronounce Trottiscliffe (Troz-ley) because that has got to be the most confusing nonsensical one there is
That simply needs to change
Happisburgh, anyone ?
@@millomweb Yes, one of my fovourites too :-D
Sitting here cackling at how ridiculous that is. I thought Milngavie was bad ("Mill-guy")
@@vincentmoon9187 Not 'mull guy' ?
For those frustrated that the pronunciation of "Godmanchester" was not explained in the video, it's "Gumster".
W H A T
@@tito_zz9217 indeed
The name comes from football fans’ exasperation:- “god Manchester United are on tele again!”
I live next to Godmanchester and trust me no one has ever pronounced it Gumster. It’s either pronounced “God Manchester’ or ‘Goodman-Chester” by locals
Having worked there most people call it God -Manchester not gumster did you know there is a stately home on the Main Street through!
There is a village called "Slutet" ("The End") in Sweden.
Brilliant video lads!! That's typical British humor, I love it!!😂😂
This reminds me of a story I wrote back in high school. I created a character called Lord Bliscester of Nocestril Hall. At least my English teacher got it.
Lord Blister of Nostril Hall?Peak comedy
@@ashgreninja7521 let him live out his little ‘and then everyone clapped’ fantasy
I, for one, found this hilarious.
@@ashgreninja7521 Well, the sort of thing a high school kid finds funny, I guess.
In MK (Milton Keynes for Americans and other Aliens) we have Woughton, Loughton and Broughton.
Pronounced “Woof-ton”, “L-ow-ton” and “B-roar-ton”
The town is only 50-ish years old but the villages who donated their names to districts range from Domesday Book onwards.
Famously (to us in MK, at least) all the standard ways of saying those words. Weirdly, I couldn’t imagine any of those being said differently. Woughton is obviously Woofton. Loughton is obviously Lowton.
/ˈləʊtən/ or /ˈlaʊtən/ though?
@@gurrrn1102 its ow! Like you’ve been punched in the nose.
Just to confuse it even more, with Loughton, as a Cockney speaker I'd pronounce it... Lau'en, lol.
Fellow MK'er, Everyone I know hates how we say buckinghamshire, or phonetically, buckunamsher
LMAO you guys won a new sub.
Good job, informative and funny.
Thank you for spending years of your life doing these videos so I can blow through them in matter of evenings!!!!
Just to add extra confusion. Aberystwyth is actually located at the mouth of the River Rheidol and the mouth of the Ystwyth is located just outside of the town in a place called Tan-y-Bwlch.
@@thatotherted3555 when I first moved to Aberystwyth I thought it meant Pass of Fire and thought “wow that’s exciting.” One place around there I’ve never understood the meaning of is “Cnwch Coch” pronounced “CNOOCK CORK” with rhaspy Ks like in scouse. I know Coch is Welsh for Red, but never got to the bottom of what a Cnwch was, even after speaking to local fluent welsh speakers.
@@richardsmith2370 interesting! I don't know any Welsh at all, but I just looked up cnwch as it reminded me of the Irish/Gaeilge word for hill, cnoc. According to wiktionary both descend from the proto-celtic 'knokkos' (hill). Cnocc in old Irish also would mean lump/swelling apparently, and a 'Wales Online' article says cnwch is a word for swell. So cnwch coch means red hill/swell/mound? :) all the best!
@@eleanorcawte532 thanks for the info. That kind of makes sense, thinking of where the village is located.
@@richardsmith2370 There's a part of Aberystwyth called Buarth Mawr (I lived there for my second year at uni, it's basically between the railway line and the A44) and I was told that it meant big hill. When I mentioned that the dictionary said 'buarth' meant yard, they told me, "no, that's a Northwalian thing".
@@IndigoJo yes the difference between northwalian and southwalian dialects can be very confusing. I speak southwalian but I would say hill is “Bryn” in southwalian and Buarth is a enclosed space like a courtyard, walled garden or school yard. However Aberystwyth, being where it is, on the north-south divide does through out some welsh curveballs. I know a Farm near there called Troedrhiwlwba. Troed and Rhiw would come together to mean “foot of the hill” so I guessed the hill was called “Lwba hill” but the farmer who’s family has farmed there since the year dot said, “No! Lwba means middle-sized” so it means “Foot of the middle sized hill”. However, to this day I’ve never come across the word anywhere else.