Does Absolute Horsepower Corrupt? Nissan Skyline R32 GT-R - 620BHP Single Turbo
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- Опубліковано 10 вер 2022
- Today I revisited one of my favourite cars of all time - Marc's 1989 Nissan Skyline R32 GT-R. A wonderfully interactive and engaging vehicle, I loved how Marc had it before. But now, in a quest to better it the car is running a single turbo and now making 600+bhp. But, is it better - or just faster?
#Nissan #Skyline #r32gtr
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I tune Saabs for a living, and Saab owners make the same mistake. Fit massive turbos and aim for 400-500 bhp and completely ruin the car. They are just not driveable anymore and loose all the fun out on a B road. My own personal car, a 9000 Aero 2.3T is just under 320bhp and is just perfect. It gets full boost at 1800rpm and response is just instant. Unfortunately some peoples thoughts on "Tuning" a car are not necessarily the right way. But each to their own and all that.
Agreed. My 9000 has been dynoed at 340hp/490nm and it's exactly right. The GT28RS wakes up nice and early, and it's a joy to drive. edit: E85 mapping really does help with the low end torque.
Well, was anyway until the head gasket blew.
Both of your cars sound EPIC! I would also much prefer to drive a car with a wide powerband but so many of these huge turbo cars seem nigh on undriveable. It's all lag, lag, lag from 1500rpm all the way to 6500rpm then a huge shove of power and torque that lasts for 1000rpm! That must be a @#$%in awful thing to drive and, although I exaggerated a tad there, it is so common with huge power turbo'd cars (especially Old School cars from the 80s n 90s) It's also gotta make the car an awful prospect anywhere but on a race track. Its a shame as it completely destroys the usability of these cars just for that last chunk of power.
Same with B5 S4/RS4. Just a little tweaking is fine but too much they turn into a money pit
Saab Highway monster!
Not everyone is looking for b road fun ppl like the lag and the big boost even if its on the b road or mways its the character each to they own
All he needs to do is vcam and forge it, brings that full RPM boost way down to 2500/3000. However - I'm in the same place right now.. but the turbo lag is HILARIOUSLY fun. So conflicted...
Forging it does nothing for boost response it literally just makes the bottom end stronger.
@@luker3456 which means u can add more boost lower down
@@luker3456 yes it makes it stronger which lets you apply boost sooner, if you do that to a stock engine it tends to explode.
@@Dave_dave69 only if the turbo is able to make boost that low down which this one isnt.
Thats the problem with big turbos. They are fun but laggy to spool up
I always think about the legendary Mines R34 when talking about big horsepower Skylines. It "only" pushes 600 HP but it's engine was built with the focus on best possible response.
I love the Mines R34 too but my pick would be a R33 400R or the LM. Unfortunately they trade for unbelievable amounts of money(1.5 mil+ USD if i i remember correctly😭) these days n so buying one n getting them sufficiently insured to be put on the road is close to impossible as far I'm concerned. Don't the original Mines R34s trade for 400k+ USD too?
RB just sounds so good. The tone it can produce is addicting to hear
Just a note to everyone criticising what this guy has done to this car…….it’s his car and he likes it. That’s the point of modifying your car. You end up with the car YOU want, not what everyone else tells you to have.
Couldn’t agree more. It just doesn’t matter if everyone else says “He’s spoilt that car”. If the owner likes it, it’s improved, not spoiled.
The only time other people’s opinion cannot be ignored is when he comes to sell it.
Such car deserves race track review
I did up my R33 GTR 2 years ago and had it tuned to 420 bhp and kept the original twin turbos despite the garage urging me to ‘go big’ with a massive single turbo which would have given me over 600 bhp but I knew I had made the right decision as it’s a dream to drive and is totally balanced performance wise. This video just gave me a look at what I might have had if I’d given in to the views of others!
You can probably push your setup as is to 500 safely and get a tiny bit more power while having no adverse effects on handling and balance. 500 bhp is to me right smack on perfection for RB's.
@@Dominik189 can't push the factory turbos too hard because the exhaust wheels are brittle. But I agree that a smallish set of twins is the way to go (less inertia than a big single, even if it's twin-scroll)
@@Dominik189 you could be right Bojan but 420 feels good enough for now 😎👍
@@jsquared1013 true enough but HKS GT2530's aren't too expensive and they're basically just more robust versions of the stock turbos.
@@paulgart lol
Sounds amazing. Thank you Mark for sharing your car with the world.
Honestly, this kind of power is utterly pointless on UK roads. I’ve just sold a 500bhp M140i as it was simply pointless trying to enjoy it on the road, license losing speeds in seconds, constant paranoia of unmarked police cars and a camera traps etc. I’m now driving a Fiat Panda 100hp temporarily and I kid you not I am enjoying the Panda way more than I ever did the M140i.
Sounds like the fiat is definitely the car for you
@@MrMarcmoss as fun as it is, it is only a temporary toy until I decide what to get next, possibly Elise S2, Porsche Cayman
@@aivarusk218 I’m about to get an exige v6
Because u can use all the power,that's hoe they are designed.
R32 is my favorite. This one is particulartly beautiful, but gotta agree with you Jay..
Once turbo gets too big and too kicky in hi-rpm, its not fun.
I drive a 730WHP R32 GT-R. The way the single turbo comes on (especially on the highway) was startling in the beginning, but I’ve gotten used to it. Part of me regrets switching to a big single, but another part of me enjoys the insane acceleration on the highway. In short, it’s quite hard to ruin an R32 GT-R outside of a lack of maintenance.
The point of the big single is to turn the car into more of an expressway monster than anything. Revved out to 8000rpm (well beyond the comfortable sound limit of your ears) it delivers what feels like endless punch. On twisty back roads, the power can be applied, but it requires a constant awareness of vehicle balance, a quick pace and a solid understanding of oversteer characteristics, as the car is still RWD-Biased.
Hello mate, owner of the car here… so many people here seem to think that this cars an undriveable overpowered laggy nightmare, it’s not a twisty B road car and never was either and then to not use the gearbox in the way you should and allowing the lag to really present itself really made it look terrible..
On A roads it’s such a great car to drive on B roads you have to work the box correctly
@@MrMarcmoss Anyone who has driven stock, then something like this would never go back to stock. 4000rpm sounds high, but that still gives 4000rpm to redline. Driving something with peaky power like a smaller displacement turbo car is a thrill all of its own. Thoughts on making it a little more responsive or linear? Video says nothing of the details of the build.
@@CarlDSLR 8750 limiter 💪
@@MrMarcmoss Great car mate! I think what folks seem to not understand is that you, the owner, built it as more of a straight line car which can be thrown around corners if you know how to do so. I don't see the point of folks comparing it to a car built to do somethin like time attack or what a stock R32 GTR was supposed to do.
@@rahulsudhir666 it’s definitely not just a straight line car that’s for sure, yes it’s quick but it’s nowhere near as laggy as it’s been made out to be at all. It’s great on A roads with fast twisting corners and b roads if you are in the right gear which is generally only gear lower than normal and nothing more.
The annoying part for me is unless you witness it for yourself the cars now been tarred as useless unless driven straight 😂
As a multiple gtr owner ( as you know Jay) There’s always the oem twin set up to get you to mid 500 (Hks 2530 or GT3s) which in my view is the best option, and enjoyable. you then have cheaper & dare I say it lazy tuning of a big single, they are not enjoyable on uk roads as you chase boost. They do make more power but the best advice I can give any gtr owner. Dont go chasing big power you loose 90% of the fun for 90% of the time. Adding v cam will improve low down but a big single needs to be in an rb28 not a 26. Having been talking to Mines to supply the engine next month, their advice is twins and they do not deliver single turbo rbs. I think they know a thing or two. Single rbs are fun but I fear this owner got sucked into bigger power. Also those r33 bembos are totally inadequate for its power rating
If my lotto numbers ever come up the first car I would stick in my dream garage
is a Mines tuned R34.
Absolutely epic piece of engineering, they don't shout about what they have done but the results are
usually unbelievable.The first time I saw their R34 tuned car on Best Motoring with Tsuchiya and Orido,
it just blew me away.
Enjoy that Mines engine when you get it, and as they have said many times, around 600hp is just
ideal on a TT setup for response for on road driving.
I don't have a GTR yet, but I've got a 260rs Stagea with the Rb26 in it. I love the twins. I feel like -5 / -7s or HKS GTSS twins are the way to go. HKS V-cam will also help with response on the street. I don't like big laggy twins, especially not in a big wagon. I prefer low down response for driveability and fun.
@@gav240z Hey I just got a 2.5RS Stagea in the USA. Any advice on suspension options? Or advice on Stagea specific parts in general?
@@bluetitan20”600 bhp is just perfect for the road”.
Can I quote you to my wife, who wants me to buy a 911 (991/992), as a partial financial hedge, but only a Carrera S at most. I keep telling her the desirable road cars have much more power as stock Turbo or Turbo S variants.
Driving a slow car fast is more fun than driving a fast car slow. Sometimes I check what R35s are for sale currently and think is there really any roads around me that I'd enjoy driving it..
Good honest review. Refreshing. Thank you
thanks for this review James, I see a lot of high power cars for sale and I'm often tempted.
this principle of too much power can be applied to a lot of cars
I think many people (myself included) want more power for the excitement, to create the 'perfect' car, and to just feel like the fastest thing on the road
but in some cases it can just be money down the drain
in most cases people should take their cars on track and learn to drive well before adding any more power
Good lord that sound! And those rims are very well suited.
Awesome car and that sound never gets old! Perhaps this car is a dedicated traffic light sprinter/highway lane changer. Great and interesting topic though, the balance of power versus driveability. Very cool debate to explore in further videos. Good fun video James, I watched this video all the way through and leaving a like. Thank you very much 😎👍
Massive respect to James for his honest conclusion.
a much smaller turbo that boosted much lower down in the revs and much less lag, with a 500hp target would be much better.
Nah, two turbos as stock but I agree with your power figure. 500bhp is perfection for RB's.
Twins like Mines use
@@ArtVandelayOfficial nothing special or unusual about Mines turbos, its the lower gearing they use in the car you're probably thinking of.
@@Scott_GT-R You don't have to tell me I already know better than you
@Art Vandelay do you????? didn't know you were a Mines customer. My apologies 🙄. What turbos did Niikura-san recommend for you? Or is your experience from GTA? 😂😂😂😂😂
I do love the change in character as it goes from a laboured pull to the insatiable surge as the turbo comes on song but I completely agree that it becomes unusable outside of a track environment, you just can't be as committed on the road as the engine needs you to be and there is no room to exercise anywhere but the first 3 gears
Perfectly said, however, each to their own.
My take & preferences are as yours are.
Nom nom 🤤 I like very much one the final pulls you did was epic
I agree with your verdict tbh. It's a shame Mark didn't want to go with a twin setup but with modern slicker turbos. That would have just been perfect.
Not even remotely a fan of Japanese sports cars but that doesn t diminish my respect or admiration for the overall achievement the slightest. Loved the review and I m almost 100% certain, I d voice the very same criticism regarding the modifications as you (and u wouldn t wanna hear my ramblings about the interior or styling) but I also totally get why Marc went down that route and I love and embrace that as well. The bayside blue one and this one are two cars or types of car that never tempted me and yet, I have developed a very very soft spot for these two and I think in part, that s also down to you and I thank you for that as well as making all these other vids!
Jay you desribed it perfectly. It's not about absolute horsepower, it's about useable power. Great review and this shows that when tuning, really need to understand what the objective is. As you say, if the power comes in at the top end, essentially it's tuned like a race car, similar how the s2000 is, all power above 6000 rpm, perfect for the track, but on a normal road, it's a bit of a love hate relationship.
Keep the videos coming mate
Appreciate this honest opinion rather than just getting caught up in the fun of the outright thrust when the turbo kicks in. As others have said, Vcam and 6spd Getrag will eliminate your issues with the car.
I swear my 32 gtr is like marc's car's twin. Grey, greddy skirts/rear spats, spoiler gurney flap, regamasters (mine are white like his used to be), Meister coilovers, no bumper vents, n1 headlights. Pretty cool.
As an owner of several Skylines from R31 through to R34 I use a rule of thumb of keeping horsepower mods to no more than 50% above stock and TBH my most enjoyable cars are actually close to stock.
Smashing it recently with my favourite cars, this and the Tuscan
This one just looks so perfect
Nice video, great job capturing the sound.
Common problem with these. This is why I kept my RB26 with upgraded twins, its much more fun to use on the road and I have full boost by 3800rpm. Plus the powerband is better for a RWD only car.
You can solve all these issues with the car you drove with more money, go to 2.8L, pick a turbo that only just makes the power you want to keep the boost threshold low, make sure its a twinscroll turbo, HKS VCam system and a map that brings the turbo in smoothly.
I used to work with a chap who tuned his Corsa VXR to 503 hp, it tramlined, spun the wheels, cornered like a shopping trolley, yes it had willy waving figures but it was frankly crap to drive, super laggy nearly 5 k before anything happened then tried to swap lanes when on boost, he used to scoff at my ST225 with 440 hp, 440 lb/ft as it wasn't as powerful, BUT I went for stage 1 Cams with a wider power band, a stage 2 Hybrid RS turbo because it had a wider power band and lower spool time, basically I made my car useable, it's on boost by 2500 rpm which is only 800 rpm higher than a standard ST and subsequently the boost is smoother, more manageable and can coast around at 30mph in fifth. yes my car is crazy fast on boost but at the time it was my daily so I wanted a useable car.
He sold his VXR after a few weeks, losing over 20k in the process.
Sounds awesome and just love it
He should have used a borg warner EFR 8374 for the best 600hp responsive setup (should be full boost at 3500rpm). Here in Australia they like to put on 70+mm turbo's that don't hit boost until 5000rpm+ to make 1000hp and they are complete dogshit to drive. The owners and workshops will disagree and defend their choice to the death. But drive them yourself and it's a snooze fest.
That wing needs to be tightened and new rubbers under the boot or the boot latch adjusted.
They're an awesome car. I was doing a cruise today with a group and had two R32 GTRs with us, one of which was a N1 V Spec
Thanks J (& Marc), great sounding & looking car. 2 Years?!, I remember that last video. 🙏
Too track focused?, unless with use, you can judge better when to change down for that instant hit of power for road work?
Seems pretty much a track day special. It does sound great heading into the top end!
I agree about big power cars on the road anything more than 300/350 bhp in an average size car is a waste on the public roads you just can’t safely and legally use it.
I find that mostly true. Mine is an average sized car with average weight and has 280hp. Never been able to use full beans beyond a few seconds 😂
@@TsLeng and that’s the same reason I know 🤣
It's not always about going as fast as the car can go. Sometimes it's all about making the car better that it was before. For lots, it's having more power. Not everyone drives their 600bhp car as fast as it can go. If you drive your 300bhp car as fast as it can go, your driving illegally in the same way as if you drive your 80bhp car as fast as it can go
Disagree. Really depends on the car's power delivery and the way it's set up. In an old school slidy monster, sure, but a Tesla M3P has about 500bhp and every ounce of that is easily and safely deployable on the road without issue, thanks to AWD and a linear torque curve - it can indeed take more power, as can I bet many other modern metal.
Public roads are not race tracks, people get hurt. Put all the power down, go to a racetrack.
I said it once, I'll say it again, every single time. The RB26 engine is truly happiest at 500-550 BHP. 680BHP Single Turbo can be fun, for expressway driving. But for me 500 bhp is what it should be, two turbos, just makes that engine happy and that car dance. That however, is just my opinion.
Totally agree with you about this type of power
Great video, I love it when you cover Japanese cars.
Love that sound 😈
That car sounds Incredible! your complaint about the powerband is legit , Yet I happen to Love that kind of super pronounced surge... to each his own..
That sound is so good 😊
I have a 2ZZ in my Mr2 Roadster and I'm doing 60 in second. Similarly, real power only comes on at 6k and higher. The saving grace is that it's so light that it still pulls below the VVTi engagement.
It's hard to get comfortable revving out 1st as you have to be extra smooth with the throttle in that gear.
Nice wheel choice 😻
I have to totally agree. I have been fortunate enough to have had a couple of R32 GTRs - One a Twin Turbo at about 400hp, the other a single turbo car with 685hp - I would never choose single turbo again - Yes it was fast, but not as fast in the real world
I really enjoy when you "give us the beans" at the beginning of your videos. Let the car get the first "words" in.
One thing I have learned from this channel and others like Car Wow & Throttle House is that GTR’s are Badass Fast!
Jeezus Christ, my ears were already bleeding before I could reach to turn the volume down! That exhaust is r-i-d-i-c-u-l-o-u-s :O
The sounds 😍
What an opening
@@AAYMF Don’t be rude!
That makes the absolute FILTHIEST noise. Ooof.
Just because you go single doesnt mean you need to go for 600+. You could aim for 450hp with a single turbo and a twinscroll turbine housing. Great flow, great response, simple package etc. etc. People in the comments seem to mix response with boost threshold, and no one I saw mentioned transient response of the turbo. Basically yes, lighter internals will make the engine more responsive, but without power the response alone will not make the car accelerate faster. Boost threshold is the rpm that the turbo comes on, this is mainly size related so you cannot have ha small engine with a big turbo and low boost threshold no matter what you do, if you want full boost at 2500rpm you need to use a smaller turbo. Transient response is basically how fast the turbo can build boost once you are above the boost threshold. If you are at 6000rpm, let off the gas and get on it again, transient response is the time it takes to make the boost again. Lag is often mixed between boost threshold and transient response so it is to misinterpret people.
I think what would make this car fun on a B road is a 6 speed transmission, with shorter gearing and a smaller twinscroll single turbo. Then you might be able to play in both 2nd and 3rd gear with a managable power and still be within reasonable speeds on the road. This is why I prefer the Subaru STI Type-R and the Mitsubishi Evo 3 as they top out in 3rd gear at about 80mph. Makes you able to play more with the gears and be active in the powerband at whatever speed you are. With the new electric cars, power and acceleration is a thing of the past, what our cars can give is involvement and excitement, absolute power is not even an important parameter IMO.
😍Still the dream for me
I'm gonna upset a few people, but that exhaust sounds like a trombone. 😆.
Remembering the early 2000's when you could pick up an R32 for around £7k 😬
Or 2007 when you could pick a R32 GT-R for £3.5k and they actually worth more in parts than they were as whole cars unfortunately. Quite a few were scrapped around then in the UK.
Love it, sounds amazing, goes well. Perfect
Some really valid points here. My GTST with a hybrid turbo is really only good in second gear. For exactly the reasons mentioned in this vid.
Now I'm just super sad. How could you bring your self to ruin a GTST. I can understand ruining a GTR. People who buy GTR's buy them to destroy them by being wannabe Smokey Nagatas. But a GTST is almost always bought by sane people who love the R32 for what it is, an amazing chassis, with a great engine, that is a dream to drive once you unrestrict it and get it to that wonderfully perfect 500bhp mark.
The noise is wonderful.
It;s a great car regardless of tune. And thanks for the honest review. Many a car is diminished in the pursuit of greater hp figures.
Sounds great
500hp with hks gtss twin turbo is the best setup for the rb26 and the chassis for street use. I had the setup on my 33 gtr but later got greedy ant went lower comp pistons with a bigger turbo, car became too peaky and i lost the sweet low end i had before. Regretted it.
Story I've heard too many times. Leave the RB26 at 500. That's where it's a happy engine and car. Keep saying this, nobody ever listens.
Here in Australia it became known simply as ‘Godzilla’. Journalists coined the nickname because the car would “smash and eat everything alive in its path”. It was so devastatingly dominant in Group A regulators threw 200Kg in it just so everyone else had a chance.
The traditional Ford v Holden fans absolutely despised it to the point of it's Bathurst 1000 wining driver telling the crowd "You're a pack of arseholes!" while accepting the trophy. 🤣
ua-cam.com/video/BYHeyg7WwX8/v-deo.html
Wasn’t just the GTR they handicapped in Aussie racing - the holdens and M3’s got knobbled too, except the sierra’s, those turbos were ok apparently
The sierras and Mazdas also were nobbled. Also the bluebird.
Gentleman Jim Richards………hilariously accurate!
Those were modified properly.99% are not
the way it sounds at the start had me expecting the Cannonball Run theme
So my wife is the mid-year Corvette coupe, my mistress is the 930 Turbo and I have to say my side piece is the R32 GT-R💯 That profile is perfection and I have to disagree with you James, the styling is flawless❗️
Finally a video that is real, real world everyday.
These big singles suck the fun right out of these cars, turning a track star into a drag car.. I didn't buy a r32 GTR to go in a straight line like a chump, I bought it to thrill me.
Twins will always win the heart of a true GTR lover.
Oh man, this review has really done this car no justice, yea it doesn’t make boost until 4000 but it revs to 8750 and is really good in the correct gears. All I am reading is comments on way to much power and lag that’s the equivalent to the early 90’s t88 and t51 units that don’t make boost until 6500rpm plus.
It’s definitely not like that and on a nice a road it’s a really nice drive.
Yea 50mph off boost is slow it would be in the wrong gear but it’s not that bad at all
I can’t actually believe you called it a drag car 😂
90's and 00's Japanese performance cars usually needs some mods to 'complete' them, including some power upgrade to 'unlock' what was originally intended due to 280PS (276BHP) rule. However, a big single turbo is not the way to go, regardless of boost level, unless it is for drag racing. Intake (non-turbo), header (non-turbo), downpipe (turbo), exhaust followed by stroker kit (turbo and non-turbo) and higher boost (turbo) with some bottlenecks removed like bad angle bends and reduced diameter in piping somewhere, including intercooler area and finally a tune to get all of them together would really up the horsepower and torque without much sacrifice. Then with suspension (Bilstein/KW/Ohlins), brakes (steel lines, pads, fluid, two piece rotors), chassis bracing and lighter wheels preferably forged aluminum. Of course bucket seats and racing wheels would help with driving and weight also. I would avoid aftermarket aeros as not many are proven to provide serious downforce except those furniture size and shaped rear wings, front panel and diffusers. I would personally avoid removing a/c, radio and speakers, sound deadening and interior panels unless you are building a track car. And finally I would also avoid carbon panels, carbon doors, acryllic windows etc as they will fade, scratch, crack, yellow and cost a lot of money.
@@furiousgta Haha just read my comment as entertainment only. I was kind of just sharing what I picked up from having mod bugs while I was owning an S2000 and Evo 9, probably not fully correct or incomplete. Switching to a British car cured me from mod bugs 😆
Back in the early 90’s in the UK the 500BHP Cosworth was king of the modified car scene.
All over the front pages of magazines, all plastered posters on bedroom walls.
I had the chance to drive a couple from this era - a 3dr and a 4x4 Saph. Back then, the route to 500 was a huge turbo, huge grey injectors, lower the compression and nail it all together as much as your wallet allowed. The result was deep deep lag then torrid boost and a power band of about 2-3k. Add in the race clutch and these things were horrid on the road.
Then technology progressed and people were able to achieve similar figures with smaller turbos, much better management, higher compression ratios etc. A sorted cossie of today is up there with a lot of modern machinery.
I can’t help but feel a lot of JDM owners chase the figures at all cost, when the cars have potential to be fabulous B road bashers.
My '89 R32 had the big turbo; it was also race prepared when I imported it. (Had to do a fair bit of work to make it UK road legal). I found the dame "problem" getting it to hurry on command. The trick is that you really have to use that gearbox. Cruising along at 50, if I wanted to overtake quickly, it was down to 3rd and floor it. The result was a bit like being kicked in the back by a bad tempered donkey! The end result though, was very satisfying indeed.
On one hand, I very much agree with James' assessment. What makes RB26DETT so good is that it responds and goes (almost) like a very torquey NA engine. Turning it into a very boosty turbo engine kind of defeats the purpose.
On the other hand, that feeling of rush from 4500 to the redline when the boost kicks in is... quite something. I can see myself being childish if I was given a chance to drive it. I know I am inconsistent but I cannot help it.
You need to get a white Chaser on your show. According to AdamC, 'Everybody loves a white Chaser!'
Damn that thing sounds good
you definitely hit the nail on the head here. my freind commited a similar sin with his modified m4 some time last year. unless you track it or go to santa pod the car is pointless. reaching near 800bhp, when you compare it to a stock m4 on a normal English road there's no competition as to what car is more fun.
I agree, it has far too much power. but I do understand why people lust after it. that turbo lag has ceased to be a thing in modern cars. because... its bad.
but its becoming more and more desirable. for the nostalgia and sense of occasion.
and for how expensive a r32 is now, its very unlikely its the person's only car and therefor it no longer has to be a jack of all traits. Its better for creating that drama.
preference is down to more than just nostalgia.
Great honest review. I own a stage 1a s14a and it’s around 270 bhp. It’s such a fun playful car on our roads. Any more power and I think it destroys the driving experience 🙁
Stage 3a is where it's at.
Depends how you build it.
I had a S14 with a cammed LS in it (current owner has it for sale you can see it on FB) putting down 450hp and it was very fun on country B roads.
I agree that turbo is too big for the engine size. A smaller medium sized turbo running a high amount of boost pressure, would make it more responsive and mean you could enjoy being in the higher RPMS for longer, instead of having to change gear half a second into hitting boost.
Makes a proper noise she does !
Money spent on car modification can be best used topping up my annual ISA allowance or make additional pension contributions than chasing an illusive bhp that cannot be safely used on public roads. Absolute horsepower corrupt absolutely, most enthusiast spend tones of cash for the bragging rights at the expense of drivability and good finances. I enjoy my Cayman by the time I hits 4k rpm you are breaking all local speed limits approaching the national speed limits with 3k more to go.
I need my drivers license, no criminal record including traffic offences to earn a living, however the rich who can afford motorsports can financially indulge rather than mare mortals. Just my perception of mods. Excellent content and opinion JayEmm.
Perfect wheels
i dont have a skyline but my current car is my first to have a turbo. i cant imagine going for a high rpm single turbo because the low down torque is great. overtaking even in the wrong gear is a breeze. the car does noticeably fall off at higher rpm, but most of your time is at the lower rpms anyway so lower rpm is more usable. twin turbo just seems like the best of both worlds to me.
Motive dvd did a twins Vs single turbo video several years ago and proved that you can still have a responsive 600+hp single turbo r32 with the right modifications.
I've poured over the more power Vs lag issue for my 32, but If you get the right turbo and tune you can have both responsiveness and power with very little or no trade off
Motive's video is increasingly suspect in my opinion. Something must have been wrong with their -7s, either how they high flowed it which is generally not a good idea or something else. I know a person that has a similar GTX3576R gen 2 setup and it's the same issue, the torque doesn't come on until 4200 rpm and it's like a light switch at that point. For Marc and yet another person to get very similar results makes it clear to me there's no free lunch. Either you get a big turbo with big turbo lag or a smaller turbo and less lag but also less power. Twin turbo vs single turbo doesn't really factor into it until you make enough power that the RB26's packaging issues with twin turbos become apparent.
There are many more variables at play than just turbo size. I think everyone chasing performance these days have moved away from twins. Staying twins is more an oem+ or period correct choice than one of performance.
@@CarlDSLR I agree there are more variables, but nobody speaks in those nuances. Most single manifolds on the market suck if your goal is a responsive 400 whp. Tubular welded manifold, long runners for equal length, and often not twin scroll manifold affecting scavenging. The reason why Nissan put twin turbos in the RB26 to begin with is because back in the 90s twin scroll turbos were not really a thing. Toyota had a twin entry manifold in the 3S-GTE but the turbo itself was still conventional monoscroll. If twin turbos were really as bad as Motive claimed they were you wouldn't see dyno results in the wild where people go from HKS GT-SS to GTX3576R gen 2 and lose a bunch of power between 2500 and 4200 rpm.
@@CarlDSLR twins are still better for response and broad powerband. It's physics, two small spinny things have less inertia than a large spinny thing. Modern twin-scrolls with billet wheels closes the gap, but you can still get those billet wheels on small turbos and get a broader powerband.
Yes, you can't compare 80s/90s vintage stock or HKS/Garrett -7s,-9s,-10 with the big modern turbos like the Borg Warner EFRs. They are really responsive and very much more driveable than the old vintage big singles. Went from horrendous shuffling -10 Garretts to a single 9174efr and its rated 100hp more and its fully in at 4500 where the lower rated -10s were 5ish on a RB31. I resisted going single for years but its so much more responsive and more driveable and no turbo shuffle going up hills anymore.
Awesome car. I remember when these were very popular in the early 2000’s this spec was there also. I’m guessing the turbo lag is for slow town driving and the power for the highways, mountain passes and doing mad burnouts in industrial zones.
Love the touch that Mr. GTR is running the R-34 wheels on his car.
Nice video. Keep up the good work.
They’re not r34 z tune wheels they’re Desmond regamasters
You'd be at license losing territory by 3rd gear on the highway and you'd never be able to keep the revs up on mountain passes, being off boost in a car that doesn't want to play in the lower rev ranges is no fun and you can't really exploit the power in the high rpm band outside of a track.
2:55
@@GregoryCavill he didn't say anything about Z-Tune, and he's referring to the Japanese engineer ("Mr. GTR") who has regular R34 wheels on his R32 as seen in the magazine photos used during the commentary.
These single turbo Skylines and Supras always make me feel a bit disappointed, since the sequential setup is technically so interesting. However, this looks great overall, being modified in good taste - and of course it's great that people show their work and passion with their cars.
I know I have overbuilt the engine for my current project and I will wait and see how it is to drive with 800+ wheel anticipated before I decide how I like it or if I will opt for a smaller cam in the future and keep the cubes / boost. However, this video brings a wonderful balance point to mind for such a Z06 with upgraded brakes and suspension: I will have sheer walls of torque available in any gear which will lend itself handily to those spirited runs through the woods and hills, no matter which gear I choose. I will just have to gingerly adapt to new power level and learn to program the 2500T for traction levels in each gear.
Turbo lag is what 80 90s cars are all about
Stop making them drive like modern turboed cars it ruins the feel imo
Absolutely stunning car btw
If I were to own a right hand drive car, this would be it or an E30 333i
But those Russian-made wheels are awesome like Jay's shirt! 👌👌👌
Some people would love this and I can see why. Does nothing then when on boost it delivers everything. Quite like that personally but everyone is different. For a more balanced set up should have stuck with a more modern set of twins and tuned for more torque lower down the rev range.
At 4:56 the car sounds like the start of the old TV show (UK) Johnny Briggs🤣
I don't know if this does, but Hiroshi's car has the gearbox from the 34 and a shorter final drive.
Narrower band engines, being them laggy or cammy, need shorter gears no matter if it's a country road or IMSA GT challenge
Yes, you need to alter the final drive ratios with the long gearing.
OMG it's so fkn beautiful with those wheels
bOY THIS BEAST SURE DOES SING BEAUTIFULLY.
I like that shirt!
I do agree with the verdict, should have kept it a twin turbo setup to reduce turbo lag, with a twin T28 GTX gen 2 setup would have given the same or more power but a much wider power band over the whole rev range making the car much more pleasant to drive.
Agree totally with this review. I think a lot of people are tuning their cars to massive bhp levels, and a lot of it is just bragging rights, so they can tell people their car has 600, 700.. 1,000bhp. There is just no point on the UK roads unless you are someone who has no respect for your license or the safety of other road users. And I'm not talking about this R32 in particular, just the big bhp culture in general
I see UA-cam reviews where people are driving their silly power cars on public roads and gunning it on motorway past other cars and I just cringe. All it takes is someone to not check their mirrors properly and pull out and you and the other road user are dead.
I recently had an F10 M5 and it was the most frustrating car I've owned. Silly fast at high RPMs but it was only rewarding when going fast.
You got to enjoy a couple of seconds of it before doing license losing and dangerous speeds.
I recently swopped it for a Maserati with much less power than the M5 and have never been happier with a car.
You are absolutely spot on, I recently sold a 500bhp M140i as any enjoyment was extremely short lived and finding the right time and place to stretch its legs was almost impossible. Great great car but pointless on UK roads.
I have one road near me where I could exercise the M5 and that's it. And even that one had a road off it which I had to watch all the time hoping nobody pulled out.
Even things like the gear changes on the M5 , they were so fast it didn't feel like changing gear and spoilt it. It almost felt like driving and owning an electric car, very fast in straight line, looked pretty boring and didn't sound very good.
I want a lovely screaming NA engine which you can rev out without it feeling dangerous, hence I bought my Maserati .
It's way slower than the M5 and a lot of modern stuff on the road and I couldn't care less.
@@edjohnson9774 what Maserati is it? I’m currently driving a Fiat Panda 100hp until I decide what I really want and I’m enjoying the Fiat more than the M140 which sounds mental but is true. Screaming NA all the way! Which is why I’m contemplating a Lotus Elise or Porsche Cayman/Boxster next. Neither are blistering in a straight line and would get left for dead by many modern hot hatches that have had a remap but like you I honestly couldn’t care less.
It's a gran turismo.
Saying that the car I think I miss most out of all is my old M3 E46 manual. That was just driving perfection.
My friend has a Cayman and I've been round thruxton as a passenger in it. The speed of that thing and the way it went round corners was truly kind blowing. Endless grip and perfect balance. It was also quick in straight line.
This may sound daft but this reminds me of the Metro Turbo as British Layland didn't really know anything about turbos and built it as a knee jerk reaction to the competition it faced from Asian marks. So they decided the best thing to do was to bolt an absolutely giant Garret T3 turbo onto the A series engine from a mini. It only revs to 6000 and the power band comes in at 4000 🤣 it's absolutely bananas lol
Well it would be beneficial to actually tell what turbo setup the car is running - even if the Art School Reviewer (TM) does not comprehend anything of the spec . Most likely a BW EFR would work wonders.
Yes I agree too, the turbo is too big, needs a smaller turbo to spool up faster
Looks like it's been tuned like an old group B rally car. Crazy fast if you can drive it, but not very useful for the road.
Thing is rally cars have anti-lag. They can have massive turbos for big power up top and still respond well in the midrange because the turbo is always spinning fast and ready to go. You can't really do that in a road car which is why these big turbos pretty much ruin them.
@@BigUriel -- He did specify "Group B" cars, you know, from the 80's. They have massive turbo lag.
@@rumdonkey7826 Some of them did, others were already developing anti-lag systems at the time.
You're both right. There's a couple of large Garrett turbo's with much better response. Doesn't look like that one is correctly tuned to the air flow that engine produces. Get the right turbo on there and you can get it to come in at 2.5K to 3K and pull till the red line. Just a matter of component choice.
Or choose a twin scroll Borg Warner EFR unit for better response
I respect the R32 GTR, but it's last on my preferences between it and the R33 and R34. I first learned of the GTR on the first Gran Turismo back in the day. Obviously the the R34 is the dream car, but I really dig the R33. That was the first Skyline GTR I was introduced to and it's probably my favorite of the three.
There is such a thing as too much power, and it applies to all performance cars.
The constant drone from the exhaust would drive me nuts, yes you want to hear something when accelerating
but not a constant irritating drone.
James was right, it should have been left as factory stock with the twin turbo's.
How to ruin a good car!🤔
The kicker is some companies (HKS especially) offer hybrid twin turbos or even a full twin turbo upgrade kit that doesn't kill the response and yet they're fit for around 450-500hp.
If it was my money, however, I'd modify the cylinder heads first and use the standard turbine like a supercharger to make it like a sort of mish-mash of the 3 induction styles, NA response and rev range, supercharger feeling yet its an OEM turbo with the factory quick spool times
@@callumroper7251 This would be a far better way to get more performance without going over the top.
There is a sweet spot for any car, go beyond that and you can make it very unpleasant to drive.
I think this is what James was trying to say with this R32.
@@Barbarapape
Absolutely, carefully choosing parts and sometimes having to go into the guts of the engine to assist a response issue can go a fair way for vehicle balance. I've been looking into tuning NA engines for a little while and I'm starting to believe that the block can entirely change the character of a car as much as (if not more so) a change in induction type.
Even small things like even slightly increased compression and fast road cams can change the behavior more than FI changes
Glad I'm no the only one that thinks the car sounds terrible and is ruined! As James says, it effectively been made slower as a point-to-point road car in the hands of the average driver.
@@midlifecarsis6420 That's my thought as well, at idle it is realy rough, and as the revs build up that exhaust drone drives you mad.
Thankfully most of the mods can be returned to stock, and that single turbo thrown in a skip!
As it is, who would want to buy it?🤔