Is 2 Better than One? Let's Talk Filtration!
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- Опубліковано 25 чер 2018
- Is two better than one? Let’s talk about filtration!
Is one filter enough? What benefits would running multiple filters on the same tank provide? Would it help or be a waste of time and money?
Let’s get into it and be sure to share your thoughts on the matter below.
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I always have a combination of 2 filters on my tanks to put a spit shine on the water and keep it really crisp.
Built in redundancies is definitely a good idea! Love that in event of a filter failure (or cleaning) the other 2 filters can quickly populate bb to replace what gets killed off. This way a healthy colony of bb is always present. 💕👍
I do my filter maintenance the same way one at a time good video bro
Yes Ben, I think that's a great way to go. It could be a bad day with one filter and it fails for what ever reason. Two, one running and cleaning the second, less disruption.
Thanks, good video.
BTW, Your tanks look fantastic, especially the 135, love the decor and substrate. Wow, very nice.
Very calming as always. Good stuff BENO
Jay Wilson Thanks Jay 😀
Holler?
Alan Majors HOLLA!
I think that's one of the best way to go. I have two hang on the back filters, one internal and a 2217 eheim canister in my tank. Maintaining one at the time while the other ones keep the beneficial bacteria balanced. Thanks for sharing.
Exactly! Thank you for watching!
Hey Ben, somehow I missed seeing this video until this evening. Your tanks look great, and I agree with you in regards to backup filtration. On my 210, I have the sump, but I am also running 2 FX6s at each corner. These big haps are so messy at times, and I like the idea of having the two Fluvals running in the rare event of the sump return pump failing. On one of my 40s, I’m running dual sponge filters which I have become a big fan of on smaller tanks. I would recommend running an overflow box or big HOB on your 100 as a backup. Anyways thanks for sharing your video. I’m your biggest fan.
Great information thank you for sharing 👌
Definitely agree on multiple filters for the reason you stated! I eventually did away with canisters on my large tanks because I struggled to lift them (I’m an older female) from the cabinet to clean and found them to be a pain to clean. With sumps I never need to disturb the bacteria in the sumps to clean them. I just wipe the sides, vacuum any loose detritus with the Python and change the filter sock. About once or twice a year I remove the pump to clean the impeller. For backup in case of a pump failure I do use appropriately sized Aquaclear HOB filters on the back of these tanks.
Two is better than one Ben I agree. I have an fx6 and fx4 on my 75 gallon tank. They both do a wonderful job of keeping the tank clean and my water parameters in check for keeping my fish healthy and happy.
thats a nice filtration setup
I totally agree with your theory. I too have two filters on both my tanks .
4 years later your video still helping thank
You’re welcome
Interesting video. Very nice.
I have found that a sump is like having another fishless aquarium, or maybe a larger aquarium with fewer fish. Due to lack of space, I have only a 29 gallon sump on me 125. It probably only holds 20 gallons, at most, due to the media and lower water level. I had 15, 6+ inch fish with 12 total scavenger type fish. No problems with ammonia, etc.
I really don't know what to think about filters. The water movement is a necessity, but maybe once your bacteria is established the rest in redundant. That is possibly why natural aquariums work.
The filter socks on the sump are what I like best. It is amazing how much gunk comes out of what appears clear, clean water; and you can wash and change them as much as you like.
YOUR ON THE MONEY AS USUAL BEN......TO ME THE MORE THE BETTER.....
I agree with everything you said 👍🏻
I had the same filtration system (mine are fluval 406 & 306) but did away with the 400 Marine for cosmetic purposes to the tank. As for the canopy and cabinet project... I'd remove the small square hinges on your canopy lid and use piano hinge. Believe me, their is nothing worse than lifting the heavy lid on the top of your tank (canopy) to have one end break off in your hand and possibly hit hard the top of your aquarium. Just thought I'd suggest that as I myself had done and thanked myself for later on!
Thank you sir
I have a fx4 and sponge filters is that enough or should I get a HOB just to be safe by the way enjoying your videos very helpful
Love the videos
thank you😀
Hey! Thanks for the video. I love the rock image background in your 135…. Do you know where I can find a background like that? Thanks again.
Universal Rocks in Texas 👍🏻
Tanks look great!!
I choose to run one canister with an HOB or sponge filter, on each tank. I also have substrate in all of my tanks.
Hi Ben, could you share where you get those nice black seiryu stones from?
Hi. I would like to add an extra filter on my 100gallon. But where should I ideally place the second filters inlet and outlet system. Thanks
On a 40-gal breeder community I kept, I ran a pair of Filstar/API XP canisters in tandem. (XP2->XP3) Although it could be argued that all I had in them could've been handled by a single larger model, partially by omitting certain aspects, my arrangement allowed full mechanical filtering in the first (sponges and 2-stage floss) that could be serviced easily without upsetting the latter stages. (Biological, carbon AND zeolite) Not to mention how the dual powerheads from larger models (XP3 & XP4, respectively) helped the flow to the undergravel return. (Yes, you read that right....)
More is definitely better makes a little bit more work but worth it
Good points Ben. You can also have dual return pumps on your sump in the event one fails. I believe you will find that in general the sump return pumps are much more durable than canister filter pumps.
HalfMan HalfCichlid I’m currently running a Rio 35HF that’s rated at around 1500 gph. It does have a hum and since the tank is in the bedroom I will at some point swap it out for something quieter. I’m considering a DC pump. Any thoughts?
Ben Ochart did you try placing something under the pump to insulate its vibration from causing vibrational noise. I used a rubber like landscaping square cut to size
Ben Ochart I have been using Danner pondmaster pumps for my 200 and 340. I have a total of 24 years of run time on three of these pumps and have never had a problem. I find pumps designed for ponds to be more durable because they process much dirtier water than a pump in a sump which moves already filtered water. On my 500 gallon I went with a Alpine Ecotwist pump. Bought it mainly for it’s high output with low energy consumption and dc variable controller. Can regulate sump flow rates with controller instead of having to play with valves
If you're willing to shell out a bit more $$$, Reef octopus DC pumps are wonderful (silent and powerful) I've had some luck with jebao pumps, and then there's always looking for Vortech M1 or L1 pumps used online
Ed Montoya,Malawi,African,cichlids,adventures/DIARY looks like a quality pump. Only found a few reviews on amazon. Has a lot more bells and whistles than any of my pumps. LOL
I always used two canister filters, I clean one just with tap water then one month later I can clean the other one with tap water too, never have an issue it's been more than 20 years like this. I couldn't do this with just one canister!
I use 3 filtration units per tank. each has it's own purpose. Hang on back for filtration adjustments IE emergency changes like chemical aids or clarity polishers. Pre-filter for mechanical filtration in tandem with canister for bio-media to complete the nitrogen cycle
I think that this is a very smart set-up!
I have an undergravel filter, canister filter, & a sponge filter in my 55 gallon aquarium just for this scenario.
can i add another filter if my tank is still cycling?
As i could see...a thiker " bed of sand" allowed me to do bigger water changes( with more time betweeen them) with no problem of killing or "runing out of bacteria.As a matter of fact,i used to wash my eheim pro 3 with water ..from the sink..Terrible but never,never had a problem.(75 gal tank with 2 oscars and a pleco 13 inch each)
Does the intakes of both filter is on the same side?
Interesting video. For flow, I'm sure you are correct. My issue is that bacteria will only reproduce to the level of the available nutrients in the system. Those bacteria will be spread over all of the available biomedia. So, I am not so sure that removing a filter for an extended time (say a breakdown) would not lead to an ammonia spike. Any thoughts on that?
Gregory Fickling Interesting point. In the event of a filter failure, if one cut back some of the food it could allow the remaining filter to catch up.
Also, what is often overlooked when discussing this subject is that a lot of the B.B. (some would argue the majority) is in the substrate, decor and on the walls of the tank.
Ben Ochart Definitely true, but that will be case with x number of filters running also. The bacteria will still be maxed out on all sufaces based on available nutrient levels. I wonder how much "slack" there is in the system. Not willing to test it on my tanks, obviously! 😉 I guess one could transfer the biomedia from a filter into the tank, in the event of a breakdown. I live in the southern US. If we have another hurricane, maybe I'll try it! Nah, I'm cranking the generator! 🤣 I world of problems with no flow at all. Thanks for the thought-provoking vid!
i know you cant respond to everyone but i have two 10 to 20 hob filters one running stictly bio and one strictly mechanical . why is my water never clear its always slightly cloudy i do 1/3 water changes every two weeks uts only a 10 gallon
Usually just have 1 canister and then 1 or 2 sponge filter on the glass catching some more particles and giving water more agitation those sponge filters I never clean them
Sponge filters are a great back up in case your canister fails
Lol honestly I have two filters in all my tank. External and internal filtration.
Have an FX6 for this 125 Gallon I'm setting up. Going on the left. Was wanting to buy another filter to go on the other end. Deciding between the Fluval 110 or 407. Was thinking With the 407 outake id have it facing the other end of the tank as to be the top flow since it only moves 360, then aim the FX6 downwards. With the 110 it'd just basically provide more downflow when the FX6 current reaches the other end of the tank. Wondering what would work best?
I would go with the 110. Easy to maintain and adds a lot of oxygen with surface break-up.
@@BenOchart Yea. Decided to go with a HOB. Now just debating between the Tidal or the Aquaclear 110. Been leaning towards the Tidal.
Been a few weeks since you revisited the algae scrubber idea, what's your verdict/thoughts?
Rick Hickman Hello Rick, It takes around a month to get algae going in the Scrubber and a month after that to see results. The HOG 2 unit I have running on the 100 gal (together with an FX6), is fully established and helps to keep nitrates at around 10ppm.
Ben Ochart thanks for getting back to me Ben. I'm planning on doing a big diy scrubber for my 135 gallon which once fully stocked will have 20-25 full size peacocks in it. First is drilling it! Thanks for getting back to me, I love the progress videos
On my 500L tank I have
Rena xp3, rena xp4, Fluval fx5, Eheim wet/dry and Eheim pro 4 ohh and uv-light/co2. Thinking about adding FX6. Tank is full of plants so not much current at all
Filter king :) Tank is perfect
If it's perfect I wouldn't mess with success. Why add an fX-6? It sounds perfect.
@@BenOchart I guess I'm a little crazy :)
@@BenOchart I went ahead an bought the FX6, the media that comes with it is not enough, getting more and set it up tonight. Good times :)
I have the same filtration on my 125 gal
Agreed!!!!!
Could I get your opinion on two cans for a 75 gal? Do I need both sized so that either could handle the tank on its own if it had to? I.e. two FX4’s? Or okay to use two 307’s and save $. (Going off of gph rule of thumb)
Depends on the fish. Planted community tank, smaller units are fine. Big eaters like African cichlids, go with bigger units. Two is always best so you can alternate maintenance (and have back up)
I have 1 canister, 2 Hang on back, 1 sponge ( for quarantines in emergencies.)
Perfect
A lot of people talking about larger tanks, but I went 2 is better than 1 with my nano tank, a 10 gallon tower tank with an air driven undergravel filter and one of the old Lee's Quick & Easy air driven internal cartridge filters. I am driving them off the same air pump, but I have 2 spare air pumps in a box so if something goes wrong I can quickly get at least one of these working again. It's the largest tank my lease agreement allows, and has live plants, a school of seven glowlight tetras and an ever changing number of bladder snails. 🐟
Helpful Vid. Also if you accidentally kill the bacteria in one filter you won't loose your tank.
looks good, your tanks looks like they are full of air :)
Down the Worm Hole Thanks 😀
I have to agree with you Ben, if all these filters could run with solar energy, it would be great, but yr right in my opinion, at least 2 filters, or more, the problem is the energy bill at the end of the month.
This is where we need to demand lower watt efficiency like we see with the Sicce internal units (the Shark Pro 500 runs on like 6 watts 😲😀👍🏻
@@BenOchart Ben here in Europe we have a Poland manufacturer AQUAL that manufacturer a canister filter Ultramax and Aquael Ultra, have you already seen them, they save a lot of energy, huge capacity of biological filtration.
Hi everyone,
Pls i need some advise..i want to put 2 canister filter in my tank,so how i do it..do i put the 2 input on one side and the 2 output on the other side of the tank?i don't know..so pls can someone help me pls.tks.
If you have a lot of water ciculation, it shouldn't matter. For aesthetics I put an input at each corner and the two output in the middle creating a lot of water movement.
Hello, i have a question i have a juwel rio 300 with Mbuna in it , i have a fluval fx6 on it , do i need a second filter? Ive read that to much filtration is not good it keep the nitrates to low ?and it can give blue algae
How many gallons is your tank?
@@BenOchart 92.4 us gallons , 350 liter
i got 2 trikle filters in my aquarium
You are genius thank you so much
Hardly a genius ... but thank you!
Help 😮😮😮😮got my parts for my spare fx4 can I just add it to my 100g tank? Stored my biohome in another tank soaked my foams in another tank. Will add prime to the canister . Will this be ok or disturb the system
Decided to check my tank before proceeding Ammonia 1.0 nitrite 5.0. Nitrate 2.0. Doing a 25% WC added fritz complete what else should I do? 7 5” peacocks. 6” silver dollar 2 3” silver dollar 😮😮😮
Shouldn't have any ammonia or nitrite reading. Add some FritzZyme 7 and keep a close eye on the fish for signs of stress.
I agree Ben. I have two filters on all of my tanks. My 10 and 20 gallon tanks have a hang on the back and a sponge filter and my very large tanks have three canister filters.
I was just going to ask that if I need 2 on my 10 gallon tank. Fish are like 4 inches long and seems like they're forever pooping alot.
Can you go longer between water changes with two filters
Depends on the bio load, but usually less. After a month open up the filter and look. If it looks good, close it and check back in a month. Eventually you’ll find the best schedule for you, Keeping in mind that things can change as your fish grow (eat more and produce more waste) and your number of fish change. Keep a log you can refer back to.
I'm not sure about thicker substrate providing more bacteria. The deeper substrates have low oxygen levels near the bottom. I think there will be less arobic bacteria near the bottom. If you can provide water flow thru the substrate, like with an under gravel filter, it provides oxygen all thru the substrate. But these aren't as popular as they once were. I know they are not the best filter for digging Chiclids.
Is it really energy efficiency to use so many Filters for a single tank ?
Yes, if you’re running a well stocked tank it’s the only way to go.
Can I use top filter and canister filter in same tank?
Sure, it’s one of my favorite filtering combinations for mid-size applications
Why do many people say Cannister filters are nitrate factories
Because they don't maintain them correctly. All filters can be "nitrate factories" is not maintained, even a sump. I like canisters. Quiet, they move a lot of water and some, like the SunSun 704-B, can hold a lot of media. I'm releasing a video in a month that will have the title "Is Your Canister a Nitrate Factory!" Stay tuned!
Ben Ochart eagerly waiting for that.
Thanks for the new video
I run 2 cannister 2/4 hob and 1/2 sponge per tank. ATI prefilter on all my inlets . More is better
I agree, especially if one fails, you have back up 😀👍🏻
What kind of pumice fo you use in your 704b
Kerwin James small size garden store white pumice
Where did you purchase the pumice? Do you have a video of your 704b with your most recent setup ?
I have traditionally had the same mindset but as I get more into saltwater I’m starting to realize we wast a lot of time and money on freshwater systems.
Key fact that you stated.. no mater your filtration setup.. the majority of B.B. is in the tank itself not the filters. It’s in the substrate rocks plants glass it’s even on the filter intakes and returns..
In saltwater you don’t use biomedia in your filtration.. the filtration heather a sump, hob or canister is for nothing but export of nutrients.. you then utilize sand and rock for your bio in the tank itself and use wavemakers to move the water.
Now with a sump you gain the ability to keep an extra pump Incase yours fails it’s a quick simple swap and you don’t risk a tank crash cause again your bio is in the tank and the wave makers are moving the water over it.
I’m starting to come to the belief this would be a better setup on any freshwater systems as well.. a simple hob with some chemipure and purigen and carbon for removing nutrients along with sponge or floss for water particles. That’s it.. throw a couple strong wave makers in the tank and done.. it would be wise to keep a second filter around and if one fails you can swap to a working one but it’s not even that important really cause your bio is in the tank with moving water anyways so worst case you need to increase water change or deal with less then crystal clear water for a few days waiting for a new filter to arrive..
I’m actually getting ready to do this on my 125 which currently runs 3 filters plus a carbon reactor.
I will also say I think hob is best for this setup.. pack it with piolyfil and replace it every day or two days.. you’ll be removing nutrients before they are broken down which in return means much less water changes and much less nitrates.. I’ve been running this setup on a tank for a while minus wave makers as it’s a small tank with a tidal110 which is plenty of flow.. heavily stocked I change water once a month if I want and even then it’s only at 10ppm where it used to run a canister and run 30ppm weekly
Fish R Relaxing Good points. I’m considering adding a powerhead, something around 1500 gph that is small enough to hide in or behind a rock, moving water from left to right so detritus gets over to the SunSun 704 intake and the overflow.
I also like the idea of putting chemical filtration in the canister (currently just sponges) but I do love how easy it is to swap things out of the sump.
Ben Ochart I would highly recommend the jebao PP series wavemakers.. it’s what I’m switching over to. I’m actually in the process of removing all my canister filters on all 7 of my freshwater tanks and replacing them with seachem tidal hob filters and good powerheads. I’ve already done this switch over on one 125g cichlid tank and I’ve seen a reduction in nitrates of 50-75%. My weekly 30-40ppm 60% water change is now a weekly 15% water change with 10-15 nitrates. I’ve struggled for the past two years on heavy stocked tanks trying to figure out how to reduce water changes and nitrates. I’ve gone as far as running massive amounts of zeolight and carbon after media trays and massive amounts of Purigen and chemipure before them to absorb ammonia and nutrients. I will say zeolight after media to pickup left over ammonia before its converted in nitrogen cycle is very effective. It’s allowed me to reduce nitrates on some tanks by 50% alone wo overly effecting my bacteria needs and resisting a tank crash from ammonia spike.
I’ve got a couple tanks setup with Purigen, chemipure, carbon, zeolight, and tons of poly. If got one tank setup with a hob running nothing but mechanical filtration and Big wavemakers. I’ve still got my main tanks utilizing typical filtration methods using top end canister filters and the best media on the market.
The results speak for themselves.. this is on a 125g with 36 cichlids of 6” or larger but no bigger then 8”.
80-100ppm nitrates weekly with quality media and no nutrient reduction like Purigen.
50-60ppm nitrates with traditional setup (prefilter on intake, poly for first mech in filter, purigen, and enough biomedia surface area to cover a large city.) No mater if I use one canister or 4 and with no regard to what media I place inside. Even tried a reactor for a while using matrix media and under 50gph flow.
30-40ppm nitrates on Same tank with simply removing some biomedia to make space for a large bags of carbon and zeolight after biomedia.
15-20ppm weekly nitrates by replacing 2 fx6 filters with an emperor 400 I pulled out of a closet that’s over 10 years old lol. with nothing but a 30ppi sponge and about 1 Big handful of polyfil stuffing. I’ve made up for flow with two pp8 wave makers running on max random settings at opposite ends and I plugged in one hours before the other to insure both wavemakers are at different random settings and not connected through master and slave setups. This tank has a few fake rock decorations and 1.5” sand bed that the fish redecorated so at some areas it’s 4” deep at others I can almost see glass. I replace the handful of poly fil every 2-3 day’s which Takes a less then a min tops. Tbh it doesn’t even look dirty but I replace it anyways. My sand bed is spotless to the eye looks like I setup the tank yesterday. My decorations are plastic wo pores so any bacteria is just on the surface. (I am going to switch to caribsea rock soon though)
As I started getting into small sumpless saltwater tanks through research how to properly run such a setup I started wondering why this same setup would not work on freshwater? I am now using the exact same philosophy as a saltwater tank of same size as said freshwater tank the only difference is we can’t use a skimmer unless we want to use some baking soda and Epsom salts to increase alkalinity and water density. (I used to do this and realized that it really didn’t matter and increases my maintenance on each tank) so I got to thinking.. a skimmer which is the backbone of any saltwater filtration system does nothing but remove nutrients BEFORE they enter the nitrogen cycle. What else can capture these? A very fine pad can. The issues then is it only takes 24-36h tops for a captured nutrient to start breaking down and creating waste that’s converted to the nitrogen cycle. Higher flow increases this. (I actually did testing of slower flowing filters vs higher ones with same setups to figure this out) makes logical sense as high flow will break down rock faster then slow flow in rivers etc.. logic told me if I replace my fine filter material as frequently as I would empty a skimmer collection cup I could in theory achieve identical results. I found this does work 100% the same way. As such the next step was to reduce things that can collect and house waste long enough to start breaking down. No one wants to open a canister filter and clean it several times a week.. but a hob.. thats so easy.. pull top remove the poly and replace and then put the top back on.
Next issue was I reduced flow and circulation so much I had high accumulation of waste on the substrate. So I fixed this with high flow wave makers.
End of story with simple saltwater filtration principles ive been able to reduce my freshwater nitrates by a ridiculous percentage compared to typical canister filtration. All this by actually removing $800 worth of canister filters, $300 worth of media and relaxing with $100 worth of wave makers, $40 hob filter, and $5 at Walmart for several month supply of polyfil stuffing. Even if I consider best case old school 80ppm nitrates weekly to today of worst case 20ppm. That’s a 75% reduction with a price savings of %87 in filtration costs.
Multiples add redundancy and complexity. There are reasons airplanes have backup systems. A single point of failure in my tank worries me, even if that one filter has the capacity to carry the load.
alright internet lemme have it! I have a 75 gallon heavily stocked chiclid tank and all i use for filtration is 2 sponge filters.
If the water quality is good and the fish are healthy, then “good job” is what you get from me 😀👍🏻
If you have enough in tank decoration, even an air stone can be enough as it will move water inside aquarium.
I don’t know but I have one filter and smaller fishes and I feel like it can be strong for them when I see one of my smaller ones in one spot it looks like it going back and forth
Yes sir more filters is better I have 5 on my 125 and most of my other takes have hobs and sponge filters definitely better for cleaning
Here's a good example of over filtration I guess if you have the money you spend it
Electric bill... Haha 👍
if ur worried about double filtration wattage then stick to poverty freshwater fish.
Can you have so much biological media that your bacterial culture might crash due to lack of nutrient? So maybe too much biological filtration is a bad thing.
Would love to see more vidoes on this topic.
Thanks for a great channel. :)
Thank you.