Is Your Canister Filter a NITRATE FACTORY?
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- Опубліковано 2 лип 2018
- We've all heard this at some point: "Canister filters are nitrate factories." Is it true or just more urban fish lore and BS?
I've recruited two respected fish keepers who give us their thoughts on this controversial issue.
Zenzo Tazawa of Tazawa Tanks (see his UA-cam channel here:
/ @tazawatanks
and Eaven Alexander, The Inquisitive Fish Guy ("IFG") of #HAPNATION. See his channel here:
/ @ifg_official
What are your thoughts? What has been your experience?
Don't forget to sub, share and rate and certainly come visit on Facebook at: Ben O'Cichlid and follow on Instagram at: ben.o.cichlid
Here's a full breakdown of the 150 gal set-up:
150 gallon Clear-for-Life acrylic tank with built-in overflow tower, drilled at the bottom. The tank measures 72" across, 24" front to back and 20" tall.
There a Rio 32 HF pump that runs around 1,500 gph through an "Amiracle" three section sump system loaded with sponges, bio-media, carbon, 2 Seachem Purigen bags, 10 kilos of Biohome SuperBioGravel and pumice.
There is also a SUNSUN 704-B (rated at around 500 gph) which is being used exclusively as a "water polisher" stuffed with sponges since all the bio I need is in the sump.
I estimate total water turnover to be around 1,600 GPH.
In the sump are two Eheim-Jager, 300w, heaters that are being run on a heavy duty controller from Jemco.com.
The "Rocky Thin" 3D Background, rocks and plants from Universal Rocks (www.universalrocks.com) that were previously in my 135 have been added, along with a few other plants that were added to give some fish a place to hide in case the Venustus gets in one of his moods.
There is 80 - 100 pounds of Caribsea crushed coral substrate in there as well and some black gravel in the sump to help with BB (I might put some plants down there with a grow light).
Lighting is a 72" "BeamsWork EA Timer FSPEC LED Aquarium Light Freshwwater Plant Extendable" from Amazon
Light specs:
"LEDs: 78x 0.50W (3600 lumen)
Config: 52x 10000K, 12x Actinic 460nm, 6x Red 620nm, 8x Green 520nm
Timer Ready, 2 Mode Day / Night
Suitable for freshwater, plants, cichlid"
Take a look and tell me what you think. Any thoughts, suggestions, tips and comments are always appreciated.
Thank you for coming along with me on this journey!
Help safeguard the future of the hobby by supporting the American Cichlid Association at: www.cichlid.org
Shout out to Eaven Alexander for providing this videos thumbnail!
Thank you Phil Griffiths for the channel video logo. Check out Phil on Facebook at Phil Griffiths ("Mr. Chips").
Never forget, you reading this right now ... YOU ROCK! - Домашні улюбленці та дикі тварини
![My 5 Tips for Reducing Nitrates [THESE WORK!] - Stop Worrying About Nitrates!](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/XJQ36kOQqPQ/mqdefault.jpg)
I have three koi 75 gallon fish tank and I'm running the 406 fluval I feed my koi sliced oranges did almost 5 water changes 30 percent for the last 3 weeks I've been doing water changes for the last 3 weeks . Finally my ammonia went to zero my NO2 level went to zero ppm but my n03 level is extremely high do you think my canister filter is still holding the orange Pulp somehow ?
Great collaboration. Always something new to learn!
Great video, how often you clean your fx6? Here every 45 days
Hello Ben
Thanks for the info. I want your advise as i am keeping discus fish , i always have nitrate issue however i do jave 3 big ehiem xl 1200 and i discover lately that yhe water from the tap itself has around 40ppm nitrate so i am really thinking to buy nitrate remover filter but i dont know if this a good idea and if yes which model you recommend please.
Thanks
Hello, I’ve never used a de-nitrifying filter. I’ve seen them in the salt water community. That’s very high nitrates out of your tap. Have you called your water provider and asked what’s going on? Adding plants or some aquaponic area that the water flows through could help?
I have a Fluval X4 I service it once a month because that is what fluval recommended on the owner manual, should I continue to do that or that is too much to often?
Depends on how heavily stocked you are. I put a pre-filter on the intake of my FX-6 and I hope to ge 6 months between maintenance.
Another great video Ben!👍🤙✌️
I'm trying to build up nitrates for aquaponics using cannister filter. Could I add more filter material to create more nitrates?
Don't thing more filter media will provide more nitrates. More fish, more feeding, more waste, that's what will convert to ammonia, then nitrite and finally NO3 (nitrates) for your plants.
Yeah I make sure i maintain my filters so i know they keep my water Crystal clear and healthy for my fish. Do your maintenance and the rewards are grand.
That's the truth Joe. Thanks for watching!
Hi Ben, I don’t believe they are also, so long as they are maintained during appropriate intervals. It’s true that they have the ability to trap decaying organic matter from the aquarium, but so does any Aquarium filter. I don’t agree that they can be left unserviced for 6 months or longer, but in my opinion, every 8-10 weeks, or as they decline in their output capacity is what I feel comfortable with. Thanks very much for sharing another great video.
Hello Dennis, Yes, that's the general consensus. Maintenance is the key. Wish you were going to the ACA Dennis. Maybe next year.
Hi Ben, great topic . Can you please give your opinion on the sun sun canister filter. I can't afford the fx 6 or eheims. And seen the 304 with uv for a third of the price of the fx 6.
Venesh Pillay I’ve run SunSun canisters for several years with no issues. Some report problems but often it’s due to mishandling by the owner. If you buy on on Amazon or from an established vendor (like Chewy’s) the give you some support.
Ben Ochart thank you, keep doing you videos
Hi ben ,
Me too i never use it even i do not know which brand is in the market. I am living in a city center and the water is not good at all very hard water that why we drink botteled water , i thought the nitrate remover will be easier because some time i go up with heat to 32/33 C so plants will not survive .
The idea of aquaponic i like it but honstley my space is small i have young kids who can go every where and touch living in a second floor with qood floor i will ha e a nightmare if any leak happen .plus i am not very creative and i dont know how to do the aquaponic that why i thought of nitrate remover filter .... the problem i am confused which brand and how to identfiy the correct one is a problem as i mentioned i have no idea .
I tried all seachem pergiun , matrix etc all no help.
Going with 32 /33 c because i have around 22
6 CM discus so some time i go high to encourge them eating .
So by any chance if you know any cheap brand in the near future please send me an email.
By the way i always and each night open your vedio and i like all the subjects you share .
I am nasir from belgium
And my email is
algezouliabdul@yahoo.com
Lets keep the good relationship and share info.
Best regards
Cleaned my SunSun 302 yesterday, it has this huge accumulation of brown sludge. I wonder is that a good sign or bad. It grows be in the hose as well and impedes the flow. I was wondering if there is any way to reduce that gunk growing quickly. Will something like Seachem Pristine help?
Aditya A. Aima I work hard to not any new, foreign chemicals to my tanks. You may have less sludge but there will be some other unintended consequence on the fish or environments health.
HalfMan HalfCichlid it's Facultative Bacteria not Chemical
Aditya, Pristine bonds to particles so they can sink or move into the filter. It sounds to me like two things: 1) Your filter is doing a good job of capturing detritus and 2)You need to reduce the time interval between canister maintenace/cleaning and include running some pipe cleaners down those hoses.
thanks Ben will look at time intervals already following your advice about keeping a journal for filter maintenance, but I think you are confusing Seachem Clarity with Seachem Pristine
Great insight. Good maintenance is the key. Happy 4th!
Verry nice video sir thanks. Happy fishkeeping
Thank you for watching.
Great collaboration Great topic 👌
Thank you so much for sharing this awesome info Ben 💯💯👍
Thank you George.
New subscriber from IFG. Looking forward to watching some videos.
Welcome to the channel Jerry!
Mind over matter knowledge is key to the nitrate door 😎
Knowledge and an application of that knowledge, I agree.
👍🏽 another great vid, thanks!
Thank you GFG!
What if you have a pre filter that you maintain weekly
Jesse Mac those are great. Probably slow down the volume of water flow (gph) a bit but effective at keeping the media in good shape for much longer that would be the case without
They do a bit but I can maintain them much easier, so I maintain them much better then the sunsun on it's own. You should try one for $20 and see if you like them?
Great stuff guys like anything in the hobby you need to take care of it
Great post man. Love the diversity of opinions. Everybody was valid. I think that canisters are awesome until it’s time to break them down an service them lol. This is where the issues come in. I know ppl who set them up and just don’t bother with ever doing anything to them. I myself don’t use them. I use powerheads that turn a lot of water and sponge filters. Though this is a less attractive set up, I’ve managed to keep my build out of view. The filters are very accessible and easy to service and my African tank is heavily stocked. I kinda wish I was in to doing videos. But the key here is to service your filtration Thanx Guys👍🏿
Great video and topic. I only run canisters because of cost and space. I have 75g cichlid tank and a 9 foot 200g Saltwater tank also on canisters. My rule is i clean salt canisters every 2 weeks lightly and cichlids 4 weeks heavy clean and also run canisters with double recommended filtration for the tank. Can never have enough filtration. New subscriber too only just came across your channel 👍✌️️
I have three old school German built Eheim canisters. Yes, they are somewhat labour intensive, but have been running continuously for over a decade with zero problems.
They were the gold standard of canisters and for many still are. I"m not sure if they are still build at rugged as they used to be?
@@BenOchart No, they are not built the same any longer. I purchased one online, (without actually seeing it in person) and was greatly disappointed in the quality, or lack thereof. They are now all manufactured in China. Fail.
Can you really go as far as a year without the Canister filter maintainance?
No. Unless you want to have major problems. Monthly maintenance is required. Why spend hundreds/thousands of dollars/euros on fish and equipment if you dont maintain it? Your just throwing money away.
@@djstokley3151 True, that's why I was asking this question. Secondly I was wondering if I was missing something as every month when I open my pre filter it's full of shit, so how come these guys get away without cleaning it.
@@DeepikaAditya. Heavy plants can help clean and improve water quality. I dont know why they think they can. Ignorance or lack of care perhaps.
@@djstokley3151 can't have plants in my tank. Still have been looking at having pothos on top. Still not able to figure out how much of pothos does make any impact
I thought all canisters were, as its prime conditions for aerobic bacteria only with most media.?
I think that you're not far off. If things are happening the way they should (nitrogen cycle) then there should be some nitrates from the breakdown of ammonia and nitrite, all things that you want to have happening in a cycled tank. Some in these comments are taking it further into the breakdown of nitrates with anerobic bacteria.
Ben Ochart have you tried the filter booster (pre filter) for the sun Suns ? All I do on my 304b and 704b canisters is detach the booster canister and squeeze out the foams, change the floss, I've had a peek in from time to time and I'm using mainly substrat pro which clogs easily but it looks real real clean with the boosters. Any closed loop system has the potential to build nitrates, but you're 100% right, I hated all pond solution filters once as all the ones that came with tanks broke down or leaked. All the ones I've owned from new and serviced regular have been fine. Can't beat a sump though lol
This is all information that we can all study out based on our on aquarium situation. For my 120, I have 3 big canisters. It's has 6 5" discus, 4 7" Satanoperca, 4 4" angels, 15 corys', and 8 fancy pleco's. I do 50% water change weekly and yet I have to maintain each filter monthly, but because of the fish bioload, but because of the plant, almond leaf, and fish bioload, if you will. In my 120, if it were only my fish I there, I could get away with only cleaning my canisters once every 2 months, but since there is plant decay, and almond leaf decay, I must clean my canister filters, all 3 every month. As long as I do that, it's just about little to no nitrates in my 120. I babbled on to say it really depends on your set up and knowing your setup and your willingness to maintain it well.
NICE VIDEO BEN.....LIKE ANYTHING ELSE...IT COMES DOWN TO YOUR MAINTENANCE.....IF YOU DO PROPER MAINTENANCE AND WATER CHANGES, YOU'LL BE SUCCESSFUL. YOU HAVE TO PUT A LITTLE TIME IN TO REAP THE REWARDS.....
Truth Daniel!
Ironically, the more particles trapped by a filter (including canisters), the more the particles are broken down by bacteria, eventually leading to nitrate. Better to let the particles circulate naturally, like lakes and rivers, where micro-life can feed off of the particles, thus breeding more live food. Of course this will also make the water a natural lake color.
🤘
Interesting.
I see a lot of people boasting that they only clean them every 6 months, then they will definitely be nitrate factories. I clean mine once a month. All filters produce nitrates, that's why we have them to take the ammonia in our tanks and transform it into nitrites and then to nitrates. If your filter doesn't produce nitrates then it's not working. However if you let waste build up in it by not cleaning it then it will produce a lot more nitrates as that waste breaks down into ammonia and then is process by your filter into nitrates.
Exactly. Even sumps and certainly HOBs and Sponge filters, can all become overloaded with detritus, more than the bacteria can handle, and we can get runaway nitrates. Thanks for watching and commenting.
What is your definition of nitrate factory???
Never have Nitrate problems,,, I use Anoxic filtration systems and my tanks don't really have any significant Nitrogen cycle going on. Canister filters when I used to use them were nothing but a pain in the backside. I'd never go back.
All canister filters are nitrate factory’s simply because people tend to only maintain them monthly. It takes only a couple days for trapped nutrients to start braking down into nitrogen cycle. I used to be a huge pro canister filter person. As I’ve got more into saltwater I’ve changed to hob as I can swap poly very fast every few days. Since doing this I’ve reduced nitrates in my test tank from 50-60ppm weekly to 15-20.
That's a great change and HOBs (like sumps) are very easy to work on.
Ben Ochart I think there is a lot to be learned from the saltwater side of the hobby. There are people keeping just as many fish as we do but with corals requiring them to maintain very low nitrates and phosphates. I think as freshwater people we tend to tackle issues wrong. We have a big tank with lots of fish we keep adding filters to them. In saltwater you don’t due this, instead You run a larger protein skimmer and larger wavemakers. All that skimmer does is remove nutrients. I thought long and hard how to do this on a freshwater tank. Eventually coming across people running sumpless and skimmerless systems. Many are running a very simple hob filter with just phosguard and polyfil. They replace the polyfill ever few days or every week. This makes the hob act like a skimmer or filter sock would. (In fact if you want to try something simple with your sump... replumb your intake and have 50% of the water diverted into a 200micron filter sock and the rest over the bioballs. Remove your filter sock and rinse it out daily or ever two days and you’ll be getting very similar nutrient removing results. (Most people buy several socks just swap them out then throw the dirty ones in the washing machine) You could do the same with a canister but it’s much more difficult. I replaced two fx6 with two 2000gph pumps and an emperor 400 I had laying around on a 125g and the results have been amazing. The tank has 36 6” South American and African cichlids. Haps, peacock and mbuna. I feed the tank 6 cubes of frozen foods days on that tank. Last water change was at 15days and I was sitting right at 30ppm or so. With 2 fx6 the same tank used to run 40-50ppm in 7 day’s even if I reduced feeding to one tablespoon or pellets every other day. I think all we are doing with multiple big boy canisters is buying really expensive wavemakers with very low flow. There are several things that saltwater is always a must. Sand substrate as fine as you can use with wavemaker flow you are using. This keeps detritus from reaching any deeper then the surface level where the pumps will move it around to be collected. The second thing is flow.. we only think we have flow cause we have 3x 500gph filters.. even one cheap wavemaker of 500gph will embarrass any filer return flow. I’m using two 2000gph one on each side facing each other on a variable controller. One turns on for 30s pushing one way across the tank then it cycles off and the other one turns on for 30s pushing back. We used to buy powerheads and place them in areas of detritus buildup.. this is totally wrong. You only get dead spots from a constant flow. The idea is to keep the flow always changing. My pumps are running on a random setting changing flow rate and type of flow ever hour while alternating between each pump cycling on and off every 30s. For $59 each I got 4000gph of circulation around my tank with a filtered flow of just 350-400gph. Very similar to how big saltwater tanks are run. And really these are closer to how or would setup a 60g salt tank a 125g would actually be closer to 6-900gph filtered with 6-8000gph circulation. I will tell that when they are on pulsating “wave mode” in the center if my tank I get 4” tall wave crests lol. We spend way too much time thinking of filtration and not enough time dealing with removing nutrients and getting proper circulation. Purigen is nothing but an organic nutrient remover.. that’s why when we all started using it we were seeing cleaner tanks with lower nitrates accumulation. A lot of the issue too is all the media we use to filter water in out filtration. You don’t see many successful saltwater sumps packed full of media. More often it simply houses equipment. I’ll soon be replacing my large fake rocks with real pukani rock. I don’t know why we never utilize dense porous real rock? It will do the same thing in freshwater as it does salt. We will not get the same denitrifying effect cause of the difference in water density but we can still get very similar end results that would still be 10x better then a canister or sump packed full of expensive media that all advertises denitrification but never fully delivers it in noticeable amounts.
If I were setting up a brand new 125g cichlid tank tomorrow I would buy a tidal110 (cause of skimmer function) and run it with a hydor mk3 intake prefilter two hanfulls of polyfill with a bag of Purigen, two jabeo pp15 wave makers, 125lbs of life rock or pukani rock, throw in a 1-1/2” deep fine sand bed and let the system run for 2 months before ever adding the fist fish letting it cycle and mature properly. First water change at 1 month time period and second at 2 month right before adding my first fish, both at 100% Change amounts. I’d put money on it that by the time I got 3-4 moths in slowing adding 1 fish a week I would be getting a complete cycle and reading hardly any nitrates at all. We don’t need 10X times filtration or filtered flow. We don’t need 5 gallons of biomedia giving the capacity to house enough bacteria to filter water for a small city. What we need is 20-30x circulation and 2-3x nutrient removing filtration with proper surface area for tank size. General rule is 1lb of rock per gallon of water but this is for a complete 0-1ppm tank. Fowlr tanks make time use 1/2 lb rock per gallon and get nitrates down to 5-10 easy enough. With cichlids we can utilize anything that is used for salt systems as ph needs are identical in the 7.8-8.2 range. We can use the same sands, same rocks etc.. most important we can utilize the same filtration principles to get very similar results.
Sorry this is so long but I’m very passionate about this lol.. I’ve spent the better part of the past 2 years trying everything possible to reduce nitrates to a reasonable level for a very heavy stocking. I’m setting up my next test tank this weekend in my sons 55g community tank which has 60 fish lol. It’s currently running a canister filter and two cheap powerheads.. bought wavemakers last night and I’ll be putting a tidal110 on there Friday night. His tank runs 30ppm weekly now with detritus littered all over the bottom as I can’t currently get the proper flow pattern to keep it suspended. I’m betting in a couple weeks I’ll see that 30ppm reduced to 5-10ppm once I get it restabilized after such a big filtration swap. Last thing I should add.. I was careless when I swapped m 125 I did it all at once.. I was expecting to go through a mini cycle and be doing daily water changes for the first few days. This never happened and I never got any sort of ammonia spike. I think the constant swapping of the polyfil constantly removing nutrient and waste played a big part in this although I did stop feeding for the first 3 day’s expecting to have issues which I’m sure helped as well.
regalblue41 I can’t see anything on the surface or my tanks cause I’m running high flow pumps lol.. I am well aware of what you are talking about though and this is why on a salt tank you typically only pull water from the surface with a wier because that’s where the buildup migrates to. What ive told is in freshwater simply keeping the surface disturbed and flowing keeps these proteins and such suspended which allows them to be taken in by a filter. But this is also why if I had to choose any filter over any others it’s the Seachem Tidal simply because it’s able to pull water from the surface and a quick fine filter swap should allow me to remove them before they have a chance to drive nitrates up. Never heard of the surface skimmer you mentioned I’ll definitely look into it.
Fish R Relaxing have you tried an aquaponic grow bed for nitrate removal and water purification? The motor plant growth I get the lower my nitrates go
Fish R Relaxing great feedback, I use 2 fx6 in a 240g tank with 26 AC 6-8" and have to do w/c every 5 days to keep nitrate under 40 ppm, also I feed 2 tsp once a day
Just like anything maintenance, maintenance, maintenance
Truth, truth, truth!
This topic was always going to be a hit lol.
The biggest problem is that most of us postpone canister filter maintenance because it is messy, a lot of work and has a high “yuck” factor.. the biology of the canister filter is such that it actually slows down the nitrogen cycle because it is a low oxygen zone, a closed system essentially deprived of oxygen except for the water that enters through the intake. This delay in the nitrification cycle results in a lot less nitrate being available for removal during normal water changes. As such I would refer to canister filters as nitrate “holding tanks” if you don’t clean them on schedule, with their slow and continuous release of nitrates. This is why I only have one canister filter left in my fish room.
Traditional thinking....Not necessarily true with the premium medias available to us today. A large can with 4 trays can be optimized to grow an anaerobic bed and actually remove nitrates from the system through gas exchange. Where most hobbyists fail is that they don't realize that it can take months to get a good anaerobic colony going. Of course most hobbyists also seem to think that the "cycle" ends at nitrates as well...
Gerald Wallace do you have data that supports this assertion? I worked 10 years with media that makes the anaerobic claim and found that they all clog and develop a biofilm that prevents the water flow from reaching the porous structure where the anaerobic bacteria allegedly eat nitrates.
About a year ago I started setting up my cans with Bio Home Ultra. I found it by accident, did a little research and tried it out. I got most of my info from Richard at the "Pondguru" channel. I set up 1 tray of 4 for mechanical filtration and the other 3 with BHU. I clean the mech media every 60 days and just rinse the bio media lightly at that time in reserved tank water. For the last 7 months my nitrates have been under 10ppm. No live plants, no algae scrubber, and no change in my routine maintenance other than I gradually dropped from 40% weekly water changes to 10%. The biggest issue is having the patience to let the bed develop. It took roughly 5 months for me to see results.
Gerald Wallace thanks for sharing your experiences. One thing I like about Bens channel is the ability to share different experiences. My challenge is high bioloads from heavily stocked african tanks. Even if these media like biohome did develop anaerobic zones they would not keep up with the nitrates produced in my systems which run up to 660 gallons with large haps. What is the fish load on your tank?
Absolutely nothing like yours buddy. The 2 tanks I did the experiments on were both 125's. One stocked with L. Brichardi, Leleupi, and leptosoma. The other 125 has a breeding pair of Tiger Oscars each about 14" long that were a rescue.
My two cents worth: Any filtration system which Converts Ammonia to Nitrite to Nitrate (The basic aerobic phase of the nitrogen cycle) is a Nitrate Factory.
You're right. Nitrate and nitrite, and even ammonia are not something horrible to be feared. They are part of a natural sequence that must take place.
What filter and media are you currently using?
Long Answer: (I have spent many years since the mid 1970's tinkering with various Freshwater filtration methods. 'The boss' put the kibosh on having multiple tanks or even sumps. So I had to focus on what could be done otherwise ). For about the past three years I have been running a HMF mathematically calculated to match actual water volume, pump flow rate, and dwell time to optimize biological efficiency. I take a gravel Vac Siphon tube to its surface about once a month to once every two months to prevent pore clogging when needed. And in doing this, I have not yet needed to ever remove the HMF for any more thorough cleaning. I use a Rena XP type Cannister as that pump. And as the bacteria in the HMF do have a life cycle, the Rena helps to catch the older bacteria that get sloughed over time. Basically 3 layers of 30 PPI foam and then 5 layers of 50 micron polyester pad in one of the 6.25" x 6.25" x 3.5" baskets do the job for that. The Outflow of the Rena is fed overhead into a modified Aquaclear 110 Case. (Without impeller). I added a Plastic Q-Tip straw venturi to the downleg of the return tube to prevent surface Stagnation and reintroduce oxygenation at that point within the case. Under a cover of course. Rather than a basket (or even a divider wall), I have a stack which consists of a piece of light diffraction grating (frag rack), one layer of 1.5" thick 30 PPI Poret foam, and then 5 layers of Marine Pure Plate cut to fit stacked on top of that. (I also modified the Spillway to be 1.5" Higher and to match the spillway angle). I also modified the base of the spillway with a 3/4" strip of 3/32" thick acrylic to redirect the spillway flow to create greater surface flow across the surface. I use a 12" Jetlifter air-lift Situated beneath and under that spillway to keep the tank better oxygenated and the water column stirred. When/If I need to do any 'Particle Trapping' I just stick a 30 PPI Poret sponge on the Jetlifter Intake. My ATO (Auto Top Off) consists of RO (Reverse Osmosis Water without DI stage) in old 4.5 Liter Glass wine jugs, with two holed stoppers and 3'8" RO Type Black line, for a 'Siphon Break' type of ATO. Which has worked quite well for that purpose over the years. I use a DIY Overflow with a Ball Valve drain Shut Off, for Surface Skimming when I do water exchanges. 5/8" Lees Thin Wall Rigid Tubing fits perfectly into 1/2" CPVC fittings for making these. And glues quite well with PVC cement. (Rather than a Check Valve at the top of the Main Siphon tube of the DIY Overflow, As I didn't have one on hand at the time: I used an old and well cleaned out Pump Head from a Liquid Soap dispenser. This works quite well at those times where I might need to reprime the siphon). Maintaining the tank volume at a steady level the whole time that way. (Aged Water of course). The Municipal Tap is sourced from a river, Typically has a PH of 8.6 And Seasonally fluctuates in Nitrate levels. So I need to use a Mix of RO to Tap.
..Currently I have just begun another 'Experiment' running a Silicon Airline Tube siphon From the Modified 110 To a shallow tray atop the Tank Brace with a Wicking Sand bed (Actually Black Eco Complete graded to 1/16" or finer) and a planting of Rye Grass of all things. Still need to determine whether I will need to do a Tricoderma root inoculation or not.. (Why? Goldfish!! The Greatest Aquatic Ammonia Producers and Plant Eaters Nature ever came up with).
..What most do not understand about HMF’s is that they are by mathematical calculation, specifically sized and matched with a selected pump and flow rate to Optimize BIOLOGICAL filtration ‘Dwell Time’ through the mat. To process Ammonia. (And Goldfish produce an exceptionally great volume of ammonia through the Gills in their respiration). And Spreading that flow-through rate over the entire tank-side surface of the filter mat. (Inserted Space)translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&prev=search&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=de&sp=nmt4&u=www.deters-ing.de/Berechnungen/Berechnungen.htm&usg=ALkJrhgw0LV9llXNmgcRtcmt86yXIgW7bw They are NOT intended as Mechanical Filtration ‘Particle Traps’, (Water Polishers), which do so by concentrating all their Intake and flow-rate through a smaller area of volume, Such as ‘Stand alone’ HOB’s and Cannister filters as example. In this context, these Two types of filtration Biological vs. Mechanical are Two completely different ‘animals’. All you achieve by increasing that flow-through rate, is to Diminish the Optimized Biological Filtration ‘Dwell Time’. It is better to treat the ‘Mechanical’ (Particle Trapping and water polishing) with a separate system. Such as a smaller air driven Sponge filter, that also serves to keep the ‘Water Column’ stirred up. Which by its intended Mechanical Particle Trapping nature, will also need more frequent cleanings.
Fish keeping is not plug & play, you've got to do you maintenance ALWAYS.
A better way to minimize nitrate is to build a sediment (fish solid waste) tank or compartment for easy regular manual drain. It lessen biological filter load effectively. Using plants is a slow way. Why keep "shits" for a longer time, just my thinking
Are you talking aquaponics?
the term is my " " a nitrate factory? The bacteria no matter where it is in your system with eventually produce nitrates. To get of the nitrates either change water or have anaerobic bacteria to reduce (chemically) N03 to N2 (gas) ,Nothing to do with canister maintenance at all
Not only are cans NOT nitrate factories they are just the opposite if you set them up correctly. My cans are set up to not only filter my water in the traditional manner but also are optimized to grow anaerobic bacteria and actually remove nitrates. It's all about the set up. Thanks for the vid Ben!
That would be a great topic for a video ;)
Your the man for the job!
See Pondguru the king of filtration
Richard (Pondguru) is a good guy and I've followed his advice on several occasions.
Hi Ben, Thanks. However, I don't totally agree. The reason being logically it is supposed to produce nitrates if it is properly set up with good media and taken care of, as nitrate is a by product of breaking down of Ammonia & nitrites and that is what it is supposed to do unless either:
1) You keep it completely sterile & don't have any bacteria in it.
2) You are using it purely for mechanical filtration and keep cleaning it out every two weeks or so. So again no biological activity.
3) You set it up as an Anoxic set up with the appropriate media & flow rate to break down nitrates as well.
Otherwise in most circumstances if the canister is properly, set up, maintained, taken Care of & working efficiently as it should, it will produce nitrates as a by product which you can then remove or reduce using plants, water changes, refugiums, deeper substrates, algae scrubbers, nitrate reactors, etc.
Yes, but I’d it a “Factory” that will drive up nitrates to unacceptable levels by virtue of how it’s constructed vs something like an HOB or sump?
@@BenOchart Maybe maybe not. It will probably depend on various other factors such as the number & type of fish, feeding schedules, bio load, water change schedules, plants, other nitrate removal methods that are simultaneously running, etc. Because if the filter is working efficiently there will be nitrate production as that's what the bacteria are supposed to do and the more ammonia produced by the bio load in the tank, more nitrates will be the by product of any conventionally set up filter whether sponges, HOB, canisters or sumps. So I don't think taking care of the filter will technically reduce the nitrate production from reaching unacceptable levels. The hobbyist would either need to reduce the bio load or have other means of breaking down the nitrates or exporting them out of the tank so that they don't reach unacceptable levels. On the other hand an improperly maintained filter that is clogged up may produce less nitrates because the turnover rate may be reduced as the rate of ammonia breakdown is hampered, in which case you may have a rise in ammonia or nitrites.
Yeah they are absolute nitrate factories
lol, it doesn't have that much to do with the maintenance schedule it's down to how they are set up. If they're full of plastic balls then no amount of maintenance will prevent them being nitrate factories and you'll be stuck with huge regular water changes.
The reputation of them being nitrate factories is down to most being undersized for the tank and stock and incorrectly set up.
Definitely no more of a nitrate factory than any other filter - even a huge sump set up with only plastic and ceramic rings will only do half the job and be a nitrate factory.
I say it's time we form a task force to investigate the nitrate factories and ones which are found to be inefficient will be closed down modernized and the workforce will be re-educated to make fish keeping great again, lol
Pondguru I do agree however I think we are all over vested in the importance of filtration turnover and keep beating our heads trying to tackle the wrong issues. We look for 4-10x filter turnover in freshwater tanks wo use of circulation pumps. We use detritus traps like thick sands so it doesn’t get blown around and gravels. We pride ourselves on having 3 expensive filters with the highest possible flow rates and all packed with best media money can by. The reality is.. dwell time is much more important then flow rate in terms of biofiltration. You can run 1000gph through some media or 100gph through the same amount.. the reality is we all know the amount you can filter at one time is limited. Bypass, circulation, already filtered water getting sucked back in etc.. so at best we are biologically filtering 25% water per rated hourly flow. Most of this is because we are focused on how fast we can force water through and not how long it takes the media to do what we want. The result is that 1000gph filter and 100gph filter both using the same amounts of media and the exact same amounts filter the exact same amount of bioload in a 24h period they just do it completely different.
A prime example of this is salt water sump.. you don’t buy the biggest return pump you can to get the higher flow possible. You don’t buy the largest possible sump you can possible fit for extra water column. You buy a skimmer based on the proper stock and tank size. You then buy a return pump that as close as possible matches the same gph processing rate of that skimmer. After that you use high flow wavemakers to keep random and constantly changing currents in the tank so that any muck is kelts suspended until it’s captured by the filtration intake. You buy a sump large enough to house the equipment you deemed necessary to do the required tasks.
My challenge is how is this any different in a freshwater tank? This is my biggest frustration with freshwater people. We accept that because of water density differences we can’t achieve the same level of natural denitrification. We accept the ignorant know it alls that live rock and sand won’t work in freshwater tanks. Although this is all partially true and false at the same time we then accept as a whole that both setups are two completely different worlds all together never stopping to thing what actually makes a saltwater system so easy to maintain.
I know you’ve vested a lot of time and effort into denitrification media and I’ve learned tons and tons from your videos in the form of basic filtration principles. That said.. denitrification isn’t the issue it’s nitrification. What makes a saltwater system so efficient is the fact that you are removing nutrients before they become part of the nitrogen cycle. You do this through micron filter socks and further through a protein skimmer. We know as freshwater keepers we don’t have the water density to skim proteins from water unless using a salted high PH cichlid type tank. This doesn’t mean we can’t utilize the same filtration principles through different methods more common to freshwater tanks. Poly is nothing more then a fine micron filter sock. The difference is we replace it monthly or biweekly with water changes. In a saltwater sump you replace your filter socks ever day or few days. The difference is you are removing nutrients daily vs monthly. These nutrients are what in a few hours/day’s later break down into ammonia and then later nitrates and now require a water change. Why can’t we use the same philosophy on freshwater?
The main issue is we’ve all transitioned to canisters filters and as such maintaining them is time consuming. So simply replacing some poly filter regularly is a pain. So we maintain less then ideal time periods and as result we have trapped detritus breaking down into ammonia constantly feeding nitrate levels. But if we used more sump filtration we could use fine micron socks and get similar results. Most of us don’t have tanks large enough to make a sump setup worth the cost.. but what about a hob filter? It is super quick and easy to swap something like polyfil. What if we did this every day similar to replacing a filter sock on a sump? We would be getting the same results. Removing nutrients before they break down into the nitrification process and reducing ammonia which in turn reduces nitrates and then water changes. A months supply of polyfil cost $5. I didn’t come up with this I merely started researching sumpless and skimmerless saltwater tanks and said why can’t this same idea work on freshwater? They are using freshwater typical hob filters with freshwater typical filtration components.
The second part of this is reguardless how much media we place into any sump, filter of any type.. the harsh reality is unless it’s a bare bottom tank over 50% of the bacteria is in the tank itself not the filter.
The next step in the logical process is substrate.. why use gravel which traps detritus? Why not use a fine sand that packs very tight and prevents any surface debris from being absorbed or buried into it and being broken down adding to nitrate levels.
The final step in the process is how do you prevent having a substrate full of crap breaking down and make sure it gets sucked into a filter where you are removing it regular before it decomposes enough to start nitrifying? Again I looked to saltwater tanks. How do they do this? They don’t even use deep water suction intakes they only use surface wiers? This is two fold.. one high flow randomly changing circulation prevents anything from accumulating and any dead spot. Second and more important... proteins float. This is how protein skimmers work with bubbles and also why low flow tanks get biofilm on the water surface. So what if we used an easy to maintain filter with a surface skimmer like a Seachem Tidal filter? We would get the very best of both worlds from the sound of it. Removing the vast majority of proteins before they have a chance to crystallize and start nitrifying.
I’ll leave the potential here to the imagination.. what I will say is I’ve done most of this already. The results are more then exceptional. I know I’ve been talking to you about use of zeolite on a 125g tank..
What I haven’t said is at the same time I’ve been running another 125g cichlid tank with similar stock and bioload at same time with this setup. This tank used to run 50-60ppm nitrates weekly with 2 properly setup fx6 filters. I’ve replaced the fx6 with 1 emperor 400 I cleaned the cobwebs off and added some 2100gph wavemakers. Jabeo pp10’s (way underrated for a 125g actually rated for a 60g max for a salt water tank) one each opposing sides facing each other running a paired on off pulse pattern. One turns on for 30seconds at max flow and then off. The other then turns on and off the same. End result is constantly changing flow and current eliminating dead spots. In fact with fine sand I haven’t had the need to gravel vac in a long time. Water is crystal clear and substrate looks as clean as if I set up the tank today. What I am doing is changing poly fill in the 400 every 1-2 day’s and running no other media at all in the filter. I do have the biowheels with spray bars spraying on them in proper fashion just enough to Severus slowly spin them wo blasting them. The only reason I’m using this filter is cause I had some laying around. I’ll soon be replacing with tidal 110 filters for the skimming function. But what I have achieve is astounding. By simply removing my canisters I cleaned weekly in alternating fashion with a simple hob I can replace polyfil in a few minute daily I’ve reduced 50ppm nitrates weekly to 15ppm. I have tons of surface agitation so I’m unsure if surface skimming will make any difference however once I replace the emperor 400 with two tidal 110 filters I fully expect to see enough nitrate reduction from skimming that I’ll no longer require water changes just replacing the 1” of evaporation I’m getting every 3 day’s for water top offs.
All this and I’m still only running a 1-1/2” fine sand bed with digging cichlids and rack rocks and decor. After I get the new filters going I plan to replace the fake rocks with pukani rock which should yield some denitrification. Between the addition of the surface skimming and real rock I fully expect I’ll have full cycle zero maintenance tank that is housing over 30 cichlids that get fed 6 cubes of frozen food everyday. Even as things stand now at the very least I’m 25ppm nitrates a week lower then anyone else running a similar bioload.
I’ve still got my other three filter zeolite tank going and it’s very promising but on its best day it’s only seeing 1/2 the nitrate reduction on same bioload and that tank is running 1200gph filtration flow and just a little under 7000gph total circulation flow rates..
Nitrates have never been the problem for any tank.. the problem is ammonia and what causes ammonia is nutrients. Remove the nutrients and you lower the ammonia and by default reduce the nitrates..
Awesome input! My only concern in everything you posted is this: with such incredible results with that biowheel, why bother changing it?
Ben Ochart valid question... there are several areas where I think biowheels are flawed even though I feel they are a very good and most times overlooked filter option today. The biggest reason is surface skimming. Even though in a freshwater setup with high surface agitation it’s not nearly as important but most organics sit on top of the water while waiting to dissolve into the water and then become ammonia etc. (This is where the fine filtering and constant changing comes to play) you suck this up before it breaks down catch it in a fine pad and remove it. Even with high flow these organis will continue trying to float to the surface so being able to pull water from the surface and in the tank is the ideal setup and why I personally feel the tidal series of filters are likely the single best power filter option available on the market. Especially in a planted tank where you will not have massive surface agitation (cause you want to actually reduce gas exchange to increase dissolve co2 levels) and even more surface organics in the form of plant matter.
Lastly there is one thing I love more so about the tidal series of filters that you can not achieve with anything other filter on the market not even sumps. The way the media basket and pump flow is designed you can physically see when water starts to bypass your media. You can dial in the flow and fine tune for the setup eliminating all bypass. And one thing I don’t think anyone is aware cause they don’t advertise it.. (it’s actually in very small print buried in the manual no one reads lol) when you reduce the flow it’s not reducing filtration. it just starts recirculating some water making it flow through the basket several times which increases contact/dwell time so by reducing flow to eliminate bypass you are not actually reducing filtering capacity cause you are simply getting higher quality of filtration in exchange for less turnover.. it’s a very user adjustable system allowing an experienced person to get the exact filtration they want.
For those new to fish keeping I would actually challenge that the biowheel filters are the single best filter for people to start with cause I think the biowheel makes getting a proper nitrification cycle idiot proof for those not really understanding filtration principles. Not to mention there are not many $40 filters you can buy that will run for 10+ years even in saltwater and are able to move 400gph making them a very good value for people who are moving from say a 10g to a 55g. They can be customized as well however I think they have the best cartridge setup. The factory cartridge design eliminates bypass as well comes packed full of carbon with a nice dual density pad and can be bought for $10 online in packs of 4 making for a $5 a month disposable maintenance item that doesn’t effect your cycle. Also the biowheels can be used like a sponge filter to seed new tanks by simply moving one wheel to a new tank and getting an instant cycle going. For it’s time it was a very well thought out filter and I think even today is still valid. My issues are the intake stem being square makes prefiltering very difficult which I need for fine sand that my circulating flow is always kicking some about. It’s very bulky and the location of the spraybars does make it difficult to swap poly or clean media.
The real question is: why is a canister filter a nitrate factory, a sump is not? Both filters do the same job. They decompose the waste to ammonium and convert that ammonium to nitrite and nitrate.
PS: Ok, if you remove the waste before it will be decomposed, than you won't have that much ammonia and as a result much less nitrate. But than you have to maintain your filter every day or every other day. You can't leave your tank alone for a few days or even weeks. Daily maintenance is not really an option for me
@@burlisaquarien7568 The difference is that canister filters are harder to clean so people don't clean them enough, a sump is way easier to clean, and you can see how dirty they are without having to take them apart.
IFG said peee lol
i dont believe in canister filters. for the simple reason, out of site, out of mind. i use hang on filters and have used hang on for 20 years now. i have never had any issues with my tanks getting out of controle. and i hardy need to do anything to my tanks. check out my tanks. i use a hang on for jakes tank. i use a hang on for blue and miss mollies tank and for my quarantine tank, and a sump i build like joey build on king of diy for jack and jills 40 gal tank. that would be my first sump filter so i still dont have a opinion on it yet.
See what the experts say and do the opposite.
Not bad advice if the “experts” are trying to sell you products.
Ben you need a new camera that shit shake to much I stop watching your videos because they get me dizzy
Hey Ep, it's not so much the camera as the fact that it was "hand held" instead of using a tripod. I activated the youtube "stabilization" feature, so check back in an hour and let me know if it's better. Thanks.
Pointless video if you do frequent water changes
WC is vital, but eventually you will have to clean the gunk out of the canister or you'll have reduced flow.