Does Hyprland Have A Toxic Community?
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- Опубліковано 22 сер 2024
- What's going on everybody? A bit different video this week as we're going to be talking about how the people that make up the Hyprland community may be a pretty bad bunch.
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I've been active in the Hyrprland community since Januarary and all this drama is news to me, didn't hear it till the discord anncoument happened. It's full of really helpful folks and I'd recommend it to people wanting help there. Looks like people are just fishing for drama, assuming what people in the community act like and honestly this "toxcitiy" exists in pretty much every community. And the community is very pro-trans, it was one of the first things I noticed when I joined.
Elitism exists across the board in the linux community and this has been the only community where I'm not immeditaly told to look up something or fix something myself.
When those leading a community and deciding on moderation - or its absence - dogpile and attack marginalised people, and then start coming up with sociopathic excuses on why "code is the only thing that matters", and the individual representing the project is himself involved in bigoted statements and dismissive comments about the issue, you cannot call it "people fishing for drama", I'm sorry.
@@SvalbardSleeperDistrict who the fuck cares, get off your computer
Best advice I ever got from my dad:
"Dont be a dick."
It's never failed me in my interactions with people. Lol.
thanks for your input :) matters are being resolved, there will be another blogpost from me regarding the plans for corrective action. Also consider reading my response blogpost, linked at the bottom of Drew's.
Hey, like I said. My opinions don't really matter at the end of the day lol and I also don't think it was necessary to call the whole community out like that, but it is what it is. I'll give your post a read too!
@@blakehensley you should take a deeper look into things from both sides. Drew is the instigator in this matter. As for the code of conduct thing the dev community contributing to the project is VERY small and wouldn't need a CoC. Unless someone wanted to step up and take control of it which no one contributing wanted to do. As for the pronoun debacle probably wasn't the best idea to change that persons to make a point but honestly who/cares really though it has nothing to do with anything on that discord either way
Are you sure you watched the whole video?@@umop3plsdn
@@blakehensley i mean you did say to each their own at the end of the day but it sounded like you were agreeing with drew for the most part.. that and you mentioned going back to maybe read vaxxrys side
Oh yeah, no. I think that the whole article putting the Hyprland community on blast was just as cringe as how some members of the community act. Like I say in the video, at the end of the day they're just young kids trying to be cool and edgy. To add to that now, I don't think that you should necessarily judge people for what they choose to do with their own bodies, even if I don't personally agree with it. And then on Drew's side, trying to hang vaxxry and the Hyprland community as the most toxic linux community is also in poor taste. @@umop3plsdn
Toxicity helps keep out annoying people.
The internet has this weird legitimizing effect to the opinions of strangers. If you see teens irl saying something mean or discriminatory or offensive, you don't usually care because you probably don't care what teenagers think. You've been there, you know they'll grow out of it. They are not fully developed people. But on Discord it suddenly feels more serious because you don't see who you're talking to... I don't have any other advice than maybe just remember that they internet is full of pubescent teenagers whose opinions you probably shouldn't care about
I never thought about something like a window manager community LOL.
Oh yeah almost every window manager has a community behind it. Hell, every desktop environment, distribution, etc. they all have little sub communities.
You are new to Linux right? :D
There are literally communities for files systems
@@views8962Just because I create an IRC channel with my name doesn't mean I have a community now. I wouldn't even call larger spaces where people can discuss a specific thing a "community". Those are just groups of users to me.
If you produce/buy/sell branded stuff, or if you have regular gatherings and party together, then yes, that's more like a community. But just because you're in a themed subreddit with other people this does not qualify as a community to me.
Great video. Thanks. ❤
There are a few popular Linux YT channel where followers were engaged in pretty dismissive comments about the issue, and I want to thank you for not doing that here. What atmosphere people create in their communities always matters irrespective of topics, and discrimination can never be excused by technocratic or, even worse, sociopathic "arguments". You highlighting the edginess as a reason for the behaviour is valid, and props to you for calling it out for what it is. I disagree that people should just shrug it off - if you want to be part of a Discord for a cool project you enjoy, and that Discord is collectively calling people like you slurs and attacking you, how can you even do that? - but I definitely appreciate the messages you concluded this video with.
That’s fair, and it’s probably insensitive for me to tell people who are in that situation to just “shrug it off” especially because I haven’t personally been in their shoes. I just grew up in a time where.. Well, it was just a lot different than it is nowadays. I’m not sure how old you are but if you’re around 30 (I know I don’t look that old, I look like a kid lol) then you’ll know it was just a different time when we were teens. It was almost like you couldn’t let words hurt you because if there was no physical altercation then it just wasn’t that big of a deal in anybody’s eyes. I’m definitely not saying that it isn’t a big deal, it was just a different time and you had to have thicker skin. And I’ve always been one to believe that if someone who doesn’t know you wants to bully you and call you names without knowing who you actually are, they’re either low caliber people who don’t matter or edgy teenagers who don’t even know what they’re actually saying (again, not saying that it’s right) but if you can take that mindset and realize that those people and their words don’t matter, it could help. But, again you are right. If someone is just trying to enjoy a group and/or Discord server for a project they really like then it’s gotta suck to have people bash them. It’s okay for people to have different views and outlooks than you, and that goes for both sides. But people should be able to share a common interest in something without being attacked.
@@blakehensley I'm in my 30s as well (even though I also look much younger), and I definitely remember those times. I just think it's better for people born today that there are higher standards of behaviour - helps with creating friendlier and more welcoming communities when a lot of these young people have that expectation beforehand. I was actually surprised that the Hyprland Discord was like this - most online communities of young people are much more inclusive than what we faced in our youth.
NGL The fact that this needs to be said is just disappointing. Why can we all just help another with our problems, us linuxers are alr a minority we need to help each other out more, otherwise it will make it harder to convert more people.
I haven been around Linux communities for about 20 years now. In 2000s most of the Linux communities were like that. Bunch of elitist kids that think everyone else is dumb.
I remember Gentoo in its hay day around 2005, man it was horrible
A lot of newer Linux users are edgy kids and it's unfortunate. I tend to stick with older and more established projects just because the community is mature and are more willing to help users.
archlinux is much worst than hyprland if toxic community is concern since majority linux community always been like this before hyprland existed and wayland....remember REDHAT drama..?? it was quite bad with community who complain about cancelling free versions...then you got toxic compiz community and still toxic as today since 2005...ouch!! and how can't nobody remember linus middle finger to entire nvidia community...very toxic creator that bring his baggage of disrespect that linux community should had replace its creator with younger people by now when they been saturated in every statistics at 3% standing of OS worldwide...but instead folks became Massaginist on its own head. that is real toxic community by linus itself that cause folks leave entire foss systemD group and form anti-systemd group consortium for no-systemd distros hats . linux split into 2 group now...the toxic was so bad that i have to post about it on his channel. All this is not new with hyprland who just only born just yesterday into nasty family from entire linux community.
Yes.
Sway has been out for so long & it's still missing usable screen mirroring for example & has some serious bugs such as the mouse cursor disappearing, it's a little bit hard to take it seriously as a Wayland based i3 replacement. I don't think this is where the future of Wayland tiling is.
Hyprland on the other hand shows a LOT of promise. It has perfect screen mirroring, it has had its own cursor related bugs, but in the latest git it's pretty much all fixed, at least the things that are not Wayland issues. Sure it still has a tendency to crash, but it's improving at a rapid rate.
Hypr even has its own custom desktop portal which solved A TON OF PROBLEMS that other Wayland compositors also suffer from.
I do agree with the toxicity. Perhaps the random anime girl wallpaper -that is not so easy to completely get rid of- is also part of it. Personally I don't engage with the community, but I have read a lot of toxic garbage while looking for solutions for the various problems I've had.
At the end of the day the mean kid with a superiority complex writing Hyprland is one of the most talented individuals I have seen in the Linux developer community & I'd a hundred times rather use Hyprland -or vanilla i3- than Sway or SwayFX. Not like this is new, Arch is full of devs like this as well, but at the end of the day Arch is a bleeding edge distro that is more stable than it has any right being & I cannot say the same about Fedora, which should have far fewer problems & yet they trip so often that it makes one wonder..
Yes I think hyprland is really cool, but the community…
I maintain some packages for a gaming community and it’s kind of similar. They are all so demanding. You can also tell the community is already wearing out the hyprland dev vaxery.
I did a PR for them and they just made fun of me. I hate it when communities are like that. I do many PRs often in languages that I don’t really know well. Mostly small patches for the packages I maintain. Of course if I don’t know a language well the quality of my code in that language isn’t top notch. But most people are happy to get a contribution and they improve it until it meets their standards.
I think this is also because hyprland is currently so popular they can treat people contributing like that. But the current buzz isn’t going to stay forever
Thanks mr Blake can you cover Bazzite Linux next time its a great steamos replacement
VERY BIASED
After seeing it again, I find that kind of elitism of treating new people badly, as if they already knew about Linux from their mother's womb (who surely abandoned them xd) the majority of them are in important projects, arch es copy and paste commands that activate scripts, for that it is better to use archinstall, if you told me that they use Slackware or gentoo or LFS that are much more artisanal it could be but no xd.
The wiki looks like it was written by an 11 year old. The tone is very abrasive and a lot of it is not helpful
Yep, the wiki is pretty much useless. The best ist going through the code and available example config to see what's it doing.
@@Linuxdirk yes more or less what I do too
There will always be toxicity but in the matter of Linux there are several mainly in arch and that style of distros the redpills, the weird ones in general and even LGBT extremists, it seems that the rolling realises are complicated to install and WM attracts them like flies
I do agree with that which sucks because I am a huge fan of window managers and Arch too. But that’s why I don’t associate in any “inner circles”. People are just too much.
Toxic people show up everywhere but they are not necessarily the majority. I’ve been using Linux since the early 2000s. Arch had far more toxic people than any other distro back then. I avoided it for years as a result. I did not and do not want to be associated with people like that.
I do think that Linux culture traditionally has been different from the culture in Windows or Mac. This has created some of the issues that newer Linux users run into.
Linux communities are run by unpaid volunteers. It is surprising how often the same question is asked because the user didn’t take a minute a do a search for the answer. Answering the same question over and over again can make anyone grumpy.
Then there is the user who says, “My computer quit working. Help.” No further information is given. Most new members don’t bother reading the information for new users or the rules. So, they will end up breaking those rules and get upset when the moderators are less than pleasant. I repeat, these people are volunteers.
The expectation in the more advanced distros like void, Arch, Slackware, LFS, Gentoo and in the Window Managers that the user is knowledgeable and willing to read and research before asking for help.
If they want to use Linux as a tool and nothing more, they should probably stick to distros like Ubuntu, and Linux Mint using one of the DEs like KDE, and Gnome. These distros and their communities tend to accommodate the needs of new Linux users.
Anyway, that’s my perspective for what it’s worth.
Esse pessoal que vive de achar que tudo no mundo é tóxico, deveriam comprar 100kg de algodão, jogar no quarto, se deitar em cima e nunca mais sair daí.
Maybe I'm just a cynic, but I really doubt the whole pronoun thing was unprompted. A group of 20 something arch users so dedicated to a WM to join a discord server for it don't really seem like the type to go through somebody's profile for that sort of stuff and get up in arms about it. Thats more twitter's thing, not discord's. (Also, for what its worth, those ARE aspects of the profile, NOT the server, so the mods would have no control over those settings. I'm hesitant to say its an outright lie, but at best something was lost in translation when this story was being passed around.)
Was it petty? Sure. But, again, I'm not inclined to believe it was entirely unprompted either. This is doubly so since they specifically changed it to who/cares, i.e. : "we do not give a shit" so it'd kinda be weird to be the initiator and be saying you don't care.
If 40% of the community claims to have faced bullying or harassment, yet almost none of them want a code of conduct, that sort of tells you the entire story alone. If you're going to join a very FOSS and freedom-first group then you're going to have free speech, and that means you're going to have people saying things you don't like. Everyone in the group is clearly of that mindset, and you don't have to be a part of it if you don't share it. The mod changing, well we don't actually know what but presumably *_something_* (again, pronouns are discord themselves, not the servers) is a bit dodgy but, again, I'm wagering there is more context there. What I'd guess happened is something along the lines of someone else using a non-preffered-pronoun, (likely because in any discord community chances are most members are male, men play more games on average, discord started as a gaming platform, and in general men are still predominant in the sort of nerd culture things like Hyprland are built in, so assuming any given person is a guy is typically the default) that sparked a conflict because it was way more important to one party than the other, that conflict got moderator attention, and the decision was "who cares". I'd reserve 'toxic' for much more malice-driven actions or *_at least_* them getting involved with people outside of their own community. From the context we have though, their position on it was "we don't care" and they stuck to themselves, so neither criteria are being met. At least if they changed whatever they did to something openly antagonistic there could be some grey area, but they literally just said "who cares" which is *_entirely_* neutral by-definition, it is the lack of caring and caring is a prerequsite to having an opinion, so without way more damning evidence I'm really hesitant to throw any shit their way.
They don't seem to have started much of anything, and their responses were entirely neutral. If anything I'm inclined to be far less charitable to the person who is likely to have started it than them, especially since there is the obvious question of why would a story so entirely unnoteworthy spread at all? This isn't the kind of thing that anyone on the server would care about, and yet it got around enough to cause a fuss? That sounds far more like someone directly involved was intentionally spreading it to spite the community. To be clear, not an accusation, but from the evidence I see here if it ISN'T as blameless as a simple philosophical misalignment, then I'm not inclined to believe the blame lies on the community with the official position 'we don't care'.
So autogynephiliacs get no special treatment, sounds they're the good guys.
Best advice I ever got from my dad:
"People are dicks."
It's never failed me in my interactions with people. Lol.