So much good here, Erica. You are a rockstar. I literally use my izula 2 to make small battening cuts, like a mini axe, when I carve smaller items. The slightly convex edge works nicely. I used it today in fact as I prepped a honey dipper. However, when I want to get down to business, I use a scandi grind. I love blade geometry and learning to sharpen. I’m learning a lot from you. Thank you. I’m getting a fixed angle for Christmas, but I’d love to be able to maintain an angle for using stones. I have some Arkansas stones which work for my small blades, but I think I’m too inconsistent to get hair popping sharpness.
It was good to hear your thoughts on this👍Over the past year or so I've been running most of my knives at either 17dps or 15dps, and I've been liking that alot. Cheers, E!
Thanks for this video!!! Between you and Neeve, I have been shopping for what system to get for my knives. Just have not pulled the trigger yet. It might help since last time I had my Kitchen knives professionally sharpen if was $90. Though it was a lot of them and they thought I was chef when I brought them in. lol.
You are really hitting on all cylinders with this video, and the performance can really improve with a little thinning and getting past that burnt apex, great job, you said more in 20 minutes than most folks could understand in a few years
Saw this type of sharpening (mass production belt sharpening) first hand at the Buck factory when it was located in El Cajon California back in the mid-1980s. I was on a tour of the factory while in heat treatment of metals class, when I was in the Navy.
While im totally on board with production knives just going woosh through the processes and all that, I do feel like machine sharpening does get a bit a of undeserved stamp here. I have moved more and more to belt sharpening after watching and talking to Cliff at Curry Custom Cutlery and Paul at Alexandria Knife Sharpening, both are really good at it and can put a really good edge on a knife in a matter of seconds. I particularly like Pauls approach where he does most run-of-the-mill knives on belts (typically up to 1200 grit, but belt grit is not the same as stone grit), and he puts most quality pocket knives and expensive kitchen knives either on a Tormek or a TSPROF to ensure quality and precision for the knives people really care about. Anyway the point is, when you actually use a variable speed belt grinder that is either purpose built or modified properly to be a knife sharpener, with a good platen behind the belt and a good angle guide on it, there is no doubt you can get really good edges on belts. You could even take it up to a mirror polish with a 4000 grit equalent trizact belt and a good leather stropping belt with a good diamond emulsion on it after. I think the main reason why factories dont do that, is because both those belts, the emulsion and the extra time/care/training adds up in cost really fast. I dare say its possible to get edges on a belt that rivals or beats any freehand edge outside the absolute masters of freehand sharpening, and with a good and tight platen behind it, the belt is not really slack. I mean, it is inherently always going to be convex on a pliable belt to some degree, but its so minuscule that its really not noticable outside laboratory testing and certainly less convex than freehand sharpening inherently will be. Again, if it was not clear I absolutely agree that large scale production knives dont do the best job here, but the more I learn about belt sharpening the more it annoys me that some bozos with a cheap grinder and crappy belts go WRRRAAAAAAAAM on peoples knives and they now think this is what belt sharpening is. Its really not, and its ruining it for the rest of us.
you can get a very good sharp edge with a belt, but unless you're spraying a good amount of water on it while sharpening, you're almost certainly burning the cutting edge and greatly reducing the edge retention.
@@carlh7795 See this is the problem right there. You say that with great conviction, but its just not true. Unless im doing some heavy reprofiling (as in repairing a broken tip from the spine or similar), theres no need for spraying, dipping or running water in the system. You absolutely need a variable speed grinder with reversible directions to do this. Heat buildup is very much a real thing but its all about the belt speed, how much pressure you use, the type and grit of the belt you use and most importantly, how much time that blade spends contacting the belt in one go. A pass at a belt grinder when doing sharpening should be this fairly light pressure, reasonably fast, deliberate and even swipe across it. I always do this bare handed so I can feel it, and when done right there really isnt much heat going in there. Remember, if done correctly you are doing a couple of light swipes across it, then moving on to the next belt. If you dont believe, I would recommend the guys I mentioned above. For what its worth I can say I have tested their claims, the products they endorse and their methods and it 100% works like they say. if you still dont believe, theres the Guild of Professional Sharpeners but that is gated by a member fee. Again, the problem really isnt belt grinders, its people either doing a bad job on purpose to save money or people having no clue what they are doing and is ruining it for the rest of us. I have fixed angle systems, I have 2 Tormeks, I have more freehand stones/plates than I could lift at once and im REALLY picky... Yet belts have surprised me at every turn. I will never get rid of all the other sharpening gear, everything has its place, but like I said before Ive transitioned to doing more and more by belts these days. I will say that it requires the correct machine, that you spend the money good belts cost and there is a fairly steep learning curve to get good at belt sharpening. But its good, it really is. Or can be at least.
Practically all my new knives undergo an edge reprofiling, either because I am not happy with the cutting edge sharpness and/or the cutting edge angle. There are exceptions, but these are rare. For edge reprofiling I use a TSPROF Kadet Pro sharpening system. In the past I have also done the edge reprofiling by hand, but this is much more time consuming and laborious, as you often have to check that you are maintaining the desired angle, e.g. with angle wedges, and you often have to re-mark the cutting edge to check the removal. This is much easier, faster and extremely precise with a sharpening system.
I put a convex edge on everything and drop the angle more than i usually would with a reg v bevel . And i have to disagree with you on the burnt edge thing people that use belt systems and know how to will absolutly not mess the the integrity of the blades edge .
If you're pouring a substantial amount of water on the belt while you're sharpening, you are probably avoiding edge burn. If not, it almost certainly is burning the edge. Knife steel nerds has a great write-up on it.
The cutting edge can burn very quickly, the cutting edge is just a few micrometers thick. Anything that moves quickly past the cutting edge will quickly heat up the cutting edge and also quickly cause overheating.
@@carlh7795and a LOT of people do not have continuous water spraying on the belt. They dip. Which means they are absolutely lighting that edge on fire😂
Trying to catch up on videos. It's been a busy week! This was a very informative video and should help many people! Something that I have done many times is to thin out the main grind on a belt grinder. Most people can't do that so a trick that can be done on a course diamond stone is to thin the section out just above the edge bevel into a slight convex. Go by eye until the desired thickness BTE is obtained. This reduces the wedging that happens when trying to slice. Combined with a lower standard V edge angle (I like 15dps or less depending on the steel) cutting performance will increase dramatically. The difference is like going up to the next class of steel!
I'm a hobby custom knife maker and grind my levels to . O28" , then use a KME to put a final edge with a set of Venev diamond stones, followed by a kangaroo leather strop. My favorite steels are S35VN, and Magnacut.
I've spent soooo long trying to unlearn how I was taught to sharpen as a wee one. For my personal use, a Scandi edge seems to be the best all around. Been thinking about looking for a Ti blade with a Scandi grind; really curious how that would turn out
Forgive my ignorance. I've not been keeping up with fixed blades. What kind of knife is the brown micarta with a SCC stamp on the pile side of the blade? It's beautiful. Great video too. 👍
Another great video, thanks,, Here's my 2 pence worth,,, (🇬🇧😂).. 1, this is why I hate "scandi's" , 2, my (only) CRK, (small Inkosi), seems very thick bte, ps, I'm very gradually thinning it out, 😊 All the very best from across the pond, 😍
You know what i really hate? When a company makes a super steel version of their knife, and doesnt improve geometry accordingly to take advantage of that steel. Like, we saw 1095 go through a steel pan, maybe thin the 3v version down a bit?
I guess being able to compare is cool too, but you know what I mean? If 3v or m4 is so tough, why are you making it overly thick like you did with the 1095? I dunno. I think alot of companies have to dummy proof their knives for warranty and we all suffer for it. Way of the world i suppose. Thanks for the video. Always informative 👍
@@jusme8060this is a huge issue when making a specific pattern for public consumption. Unfortunately, makers almost have to cater the most uninformed customers to avoid the backlash of online hate and retribution after they snap a thin blade using it as a pry bar. Making a legitimately great knife with laser like geometry can open the door for business closing drama brought on by internet outrage.
Yep unless you are me you will always have a convexed edge after free hand sharpening. 😂 Not really i just thought that was funny, but i do pride myself on being skilled at free hand sharpening. My papa showed me how when i was about 10 and i ruined thousands of my family's knives until i got good. 30 years later my whole family brings me there knives to sharpen for them now lol
I feel that any edge will work for what you need, but that doesn't mean it's not worth choosing a specific edge to make your specific cutting requirements easier
I skipped ahead a bit through the vid. Maybe it was addressed... BURRS. That's what I see a bunch that really kills the longevity of a "sharp" edge. A small burr that you can't feel dragging your finger over it can really shorten the time a knife is sharp in use. If that burr is standing up, not folded over to one side a lot, it's both impossible to feel and is shaving sharp... but it lays right over the first time it meets any real resistance. I use a low power flashlight shined against the side of the edge to see the burrs I can't feel. And if I can't see a burr when I'm done, I run the knife edge over the wood side of my wood/leather strop and look again. A sharpal dual grit diamond plate followed by a ceramic like lansky turn box is usually all I ever need to get quick good edges. And a few passes on the strop with 5 micron diamond paste if I want to be fancy. Overstropping can shorten useful edge life too, especially for high chromium carbide steels (like the 440C mentioned in this video... which I think is actually a pretty good steel but poorly done 440C and junk steel mislabeled 440c have damaged its reputation). A mirror edge is nice, but lacks the micro teeth that a more hazy looking edge will have. I agree with her on everything else.
And as she said, edge angle is huge. 420J will cut quite a while at 14*.... if you can avoid rolling the edge (it's a soft steel). High toughness at high hardness is a big deal to me. Edge rolling and micro chipping dulls a lot of knives compared to actual abrasion wear. If an edge is durable and hard and can hold a 12 or 13 degree angle without rolling, it'll cut for quite a while on most things even if it has a low abrasion resistance rating (CATRA).
Erica!!! Good to see you today I learn something every time thank you for what you do!!!
That makes me so happy hearing that W!!! I appreciate you man
Another informative video! In my experience some companies are better at providing slicey edges overall. Thanks for the information sis.
@@Knife_guy oh totally!
So much good here, Erica. You are a rockstar. I literally use my izula 2 to make small battening cuts, like a mini axe, when I carve smaller items. The slightly convex edge works nicely. I used it today in fact as I prepped a honey dipper. However, when I want to get down to business, I use a scandi grind. I love blade geometry and learning to sharpen. I’m learning a lot from you. Thank you. I’m getting a fixed angle for Christmas, but I’d love to be able to maintain an angle for using stones. I have some Arkansas stones which work for my small blades, but I think I’m too inconsistent to get hair popping sharpness.
@@dw8143 I’m so happy to hear you are enjoying these videos! Sounds like Santa’s bringing you some sweet EDC stuff!🥰🥰
I wish Case would hold their people accountable for how they belt sharpen.
@@robertbarker5802 OMG RIGHT🤣
Yes!!!!! 100%
@@Randomvoltagethe edges are soooo bad😂
Edge case issues
Fit and finish doesn’t match price paid either.
It was good to hear your thoughts on this👍Over the past year or so I've been running most of my knives at either 17dps or 15dps, and I've been liking that alot. Cheers, E!
@@davidkurle5418 that is absolutely the sweet spot!!!!
Thanks again for your great work!
@@catshark12 thank YOU for making it worth filming! 🥰🥰🥰
Thanks for this video!!! Between you and Neeve, I have been shopping for what system to get for my knives. Just have not pulled the trigger yet. It might help since last time I had my Kitchen knives professionally sharpen if was $90. Though it was a lot of them and they thought I was chef when I brought them in. lol.
@@barboki haha! Worksharp is pretty cheap and effective
You are really hitting on all cylinders with this video, and the performance can really improve with a little thinning and getting past that burnt apex, great job, you said more in 20 minutes than most folks could understand in a few years
Thank you so much!!!
Saw this type of sharpening (mass production belt sharpening) first hand at the Buck factory when it was located in El Cajon California back in the mid-1980s. I was on a tour of the factory while in heat treatment of metals class, when I was in the Navy.
Yep. And a lot of them haven’t really changed! We still very much receive burnt, fatigued edges right from the start.
While im totally on board with production knives just going woosh through the processes and all that, I do feel like machine sharpening does get a bit a of undeserved stamp here. I have moved more and more to belt sharpening after watching and talking to Cliff at Curry Custom Cutlery and Paul at Alexandria Knife Sharpening, both are really good at it and can put a really good edge on a knife in a matter of seconds. I particularly like Pauls approach where he does most run-of-the-mill knives on belts (typically up to 1200 grit, but belt grit is not the same as stone grit), and he puts most quality pocket knives and expensive kitchen knives either on a Tormek or a TSPROF to ensure quality and precision for the knives people really care about.
Anyway the point is, when you actually use a variable speed belt grinder that is either purpose built or modified properly to be a knife sharpener, with a good platen behind the belt and a good angle guide on it, there is no doubt you can get really good edges on belts. You could even take it up to a mirror polish with a 4000 grit equalent trizact belt and a good leather stropping belt with a good diamond emulsion on it after. I think the main reason why factories dont do that, is because both those belts, the emulsion and the extra time/care/training adds up in cost really fast.
I dare say its possible to get edges on a belt that rivals or beats any freehand edge outside the absolute masters of freehand sharpening, and with a good and tight platen behind it, the belt is not really slack. I mean, it is inherently always going to be convex on a pliable belt to some degree, but its so minuscule that its really not noticable outside laboratory testing and certainly less convex than freehand sharpening inherently will be.
Again, if it was not clear I absolutely agree that large scale production knives dont do the best job here, but the more I learn about belt sharpening the more it annoys me that some bozos with a cheap grinder and crappy belts go WRRRAAAAAAAAM on peoples knives and they now think this is what belt sharpening is. Its really not, and its ruining it for the rest of us.
@@kvernesdotten I totally hear you. I really do
you can get a very good sharp edge with a belt, but unless you're spraying a good amount of water on it while sharpening, you're almost certainly burning the cutting edge and greatly reducing the edge retention.
@@carlh7795 See this is the problem right there. You say that with great conviction, but its just not true. Unless im doing some heavy reprofiling (as in repairing a broken tip from the spine or similar), theres no need for spraying, dipping or running water in the system.
You absolutely need a variable speed grinder with reversible directions to do this. Heat buildup is very much a real thing but its all about the belt speed, how much pressure you use, the type and grit of the belt you use and most importantly, how much time that blade spends contacting the belt in one go. A pass at a belt grinder when doing sharpening should be this fairly light pressure, reasonably fast, deliberate and even swipe across it. I always do this bare handed so I can feel it, and when done right there really isnt much heat going in there. Remember, if done correctly you are doing a couple of light swipes across it, then moving on to the next belt.
If you dont believe, I would recommend the guys I mentioned above. For what its worth I can say I have tested their claims, the products they endorse and their methods and it 100% works like they say. if you still dont believe, theres the Guild of Professional Sharpeners but that is gated by a member fee. Again, the problem really isnt belt grinders, its people either doing a bad job on purpose to save money or people having no clue what they are doing and is ruining it for the rest of us.
I have fixed angle systems, I have 2 Tormeks, I have more freehand stones/plates than I could lift at once and im REALLY picky... Yet belts have surprised me at every turn. I will never get rid of all the other sharpening gear, everything has its place, but like I said before Ive transitioned to doing more and more by belts these days. I will say that it requires the correct machine, that you spend the money good belts cost and there is a fairly steep learning curve to get good at belt sharpening. But its good, it really is. Or can be at least.
YOU ARE THE GOD OF SHARPENING!
@@Nickies_edc omg far from it. You meant the God of Moms.
@@ericasedc hahaha
Thank you for the information ! Did you know that if a snail walks on a razor blade nothing happens due to his slimy surface
What!
Practically all my new knives undergo an edge reprofiling, either because I am not happy with the cutting edge sharpness and/or the cutting edge angle. There are exceptions, but these are rare. For edge reprofiling I use a TSPROF Kadet Pro sharpening system. In the past I have also done the edge reprofiling by hand, but this is much more time consuming and laborious, as you often have to check that you are maintaining the desired angle, e.g. with angle wedges, and you often have to re-mark the cutting edge to check the removal. This is much easier, faster and extremely precise with a sharpening system.
Thanks so much for sharing!
I second this! Ive seen kitchen knives from IKEA hanging with knives 10-20x their price just from getting a quality edge and better geometry
a lose belt would definitely do a slight convex i never thought of that 😮
Now imagine how many of those belt grinders don’t get adjusted for MONTHS on end…
Just found your channel- I love knives but had never looked at this side of knife passion before
I learned a lot -thanks
@@UsernameBlocked I have a lottttt of videos on this topic!!! I hope you check them out!!!🥰🥰Welcome aboard!
@ your channel is on my list of before bed binge content
@ I love that!!!!
New video! Sweet 😉
@@richterknives Eyyyy Richta!
ERICA UR AWESOME AWESOME KNIVES
Why thank you. That’s you though!!
So much great knowledge in this video…as usual😁. Thank you for taking the time to share all of this info!!💯
@@R.H.bladeNshade I really appreciate you watching Ry!
I put a convex edge on everything and drop the angle more than i usually would with a reg v bevel . And i have to disagree with you on the burnt edge thing people that use belt systems and know how to will absolutly not mess the the integrity of the blades edge .
If you're pouring a substantial amount of water on the belt while you're sharpening, you are probably avoiding edge burn. If not, it almost certainly is burning the edge. Knife steel nerds has a great write-up on it.
The cutting edge can burn very quickly, the cutting edge is just a few micrometers thick. Anything that moves quickly past the cutting edge will quickly heat up the cutting edge and also quickly cause overheating.
… interesting take!😂
@@achimgeist5185yeah I don’t know if he realizes that hehe. I have had edges heat up freehand sharpening!
@@carlh7795and a LOT of people do not have continuous water spraying on the belt. They dip. Which means they are absolutely lighting that edge on fire😂
Wish you’d do livestreams :(
@@KnivesAndPizza I need to!!
Yay, my interweb connection is back (cable cut I think) and I can catch up with Erica's video.
Very well done as always!
Hey Mike!!!! How are ya!
Trying to catch up on videos. It's been a busy week! This was a very informative video and should help many people! Something that I have done many times is to thin out the main grind on a belt grinder. Most people can't do that so a trick that can be done on a course diamond stone is to thin the section out just above the edge bevel into a slight convex. Go by eye until the desired thickness BTE is obtained. This reduces the wedging that happens when trying to slice. Combined with a lower standard V edge angle (I like 15dps or less depending on the steel) cutting performance will increase dramatically. The difference is like going up to the next class of steel!
@@LastChanceKnives awesome info here K!!!! I appreciate you!!!! Happy Thanksgiving!!! 🥰🥰
I'm a hobby custom knife maker and grind my levels to . O28" , then use a KME to put a final edge with a set of Venev diamond stones, followed by a kangaroo leather strop. My favorite steels are S35VN, and Magnacut.
@@billclancy4913 wow those sound incredible!!!!
Been sharpening for over 20 years its one of the best and most enjoyable parts of the hobby. Buying stones is more addictive than buying knives.
@@Edcreviewer agreed!
I've spent soooo long trying to unlearn how I was taught to sharpen as a wee one.
For my personal use, a Scandi edge seems to be the best all around. Been thinking about looking for a Ti blade with a Scandi grind; really curious how that would turn out
@@thundair that would be interesting!
It would turn out bad, Titanium isn't hard enough to hold an edge, titanium also doesn't have any carbide.
@@airwolf2001 I didn’t wanna crush his dreams🥰🤣
I gotcha, but I was thinking something in Grade 38, like ATI 425. About as hard as the softer end of premium steel; it will get into 55 HRC range
Totally get that's not in the super steel range, and way too soft for some users, but it's worked out pretty well for me as a utility neck knife
I could probably free hand sharpen faster than using a fixed angle system
@@TheScrawnyLumberjack you probably could!!!! Cause you’re a beast!💅🏻🤜🏼
Forgive my ignorance. I've not been keeping up with fixed blades. What kind of knife is the brown micarta with a SCC stamp on the pile side of the blade? It's beautiful. Great video too. 👍
@@WVKNIFEGUY Steve Callari Custom Knives Steadfast EDC in Magnacut! 64.5 HRC!!!
@ericasedc thank you so much!
@ it’s one of the best knives I have ever used. Seriously. If you end up having interest- tell him I sent you!!!!
Another great video, thanks,,
Here's my 2 pence worth,,, (🇬🇧😂)..
1, this is why I hate "scandi's" ,
2, my (only) CRK, (small Inkosi), seems very thick bte,
ps, I'm very gradually thinning it out, 😊
All the very best from across the pond, 😍
Hey man! Great to see you!!!🎉
probably the most knowledgeable video Ive seen yet.
@@jobsearch5871 wow thank you! I really appreciate that!
You know what i really hate? When a company makes a super steel version of their knife, and doesnt improve geometry accordingly to take advantage of that steel. Like, we saw 1095 go through a steel pan, maybe thin the 3v version down a bit?
I guess being able to compare is cool too, but you know what I mean? If 3v or m4 is so tough, why are you making it overly thick like you did with the 1095? I dunno. I think alot of companies have to dummy proof their knives for warranty and we all suffer for it. Way of the world i suppose. Thanks for the video. Always informative 👍
@@jusme8060 OMG YES!!!!!
@@jusme8060this is a huge issue when making a specific pattern for public consumption. Unfortunately, makers almost have to cater the most uninformed customers to avoid the backlash of online hate and retribution after they snap a thin blade using it as a pry bar.
Making a legitimately great knife with laser like geometry can open the door for business closing drama brought on by internet outrage.
Good morning Ms Erica. Good information 👍. I hope you have a great day. Take care.🇺🇲🌲🔥🔪
@@jasonaffeldt7838 always great to see you! Have a wonderful day J!
Yep unless you are me you will always have a convexed edge after free hand sharpening. 😂 Not really i just thought that was funny, but i do pride myself on being skilled at free hand sharpening. My papa showed me how when i was about 10 and i ruined thousands of my family's knives until i got good. 30 years later my whole family brings me there knives to sharpen for them now lol
@@Gillespie91 I love that!!!!!
I feel that any edge will work for what you need, but that doesn't mean it's not worth choosing a specific edge to make your specific cutting requirements easier
@@Intergalactic_media Thanks for watching!🥰
I skipped ahead a bit through the vid. Maybe it was addressed...
BURRS.
That's what I see a bunch that really kills the longevity of a "sharp" edge. A small burr that you can't feel dragging your finger over it can really shorten the time a knife is sharp in use. If that burr is standing up, not folded over to one side a lot, it's both impossible to feel and is shaving sharp... but it lays right over the first time it meets any real resistance. I use a low power flashlight shined against the side of the edge to see the burrs I can't feel. And if I can't see a burr when I'm done, I run the knife edge over the wood side of my wood/leather strop and look again. A sharpal dual grit diamond plate followed by a ceramic like lansky turn box is usually all I ever need to get quick good edges. And a few passes on the strop with 5 micron diamond paste if I want to be fancy. Overstropping can shorten useful edge life too, especially for high chromium carbide steels (like the 440C mentioned in this video... which I think is actually a pretty good steel but poorly done 440C and junk steel mislabeled 440c have damaged its reputation). A mirror edge is nice, but lacks the micro teeth that a more hazy looking edge will have. I agree with her on everything else.
And as she said, edge angle is huge. 420J will cut quite a while at 14*.... if you can avoid rolling the edge (it's a soft steel). High toughness at high hardness is a big deal to me. Edge rolling and micro chipping dulls a lot of knives compared to actual abrasion wear. If an edge is durable and hard and can hold a 12 or 13 degree angle without rolling, it'll cut for quite a while on most things even if it has a low abrasion resistance rating (CATRA).
I have tons of videos on burrs/burr removal hence why I didn’t emphasize it in this one❤
The good ol wire edge.. keeps a lot of people from getting the performance they want out of their knives.
Really good video and spot on advice Erica!👊🏻👍🏻