The Great China Incident that created the Baba Nyonya
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- Опубліковано 17 жов 2024
- In this video, we learn how a great event that took place in China, hundreds of years ago (to be precise, 380 years ago), that resulted in a group of Chinese people in West Malaysia and Singapore known as the Baba Nyonya, who created the infrastructure conducive for later Chinese migrants to populate this region.
In this video, we mention the four different groups of Chinese people in West Malaysia and Singapore, in chronological order: Peranakan, Baba Nyonya, Lau33khaek3 and Sin3khaek3. I explain the definition of these four in this video:
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Listening to the China Podcast, I noted Jessica and James saying that the Ming Dynasty collapsed "overnight". They are being figurative here. The dynasty did not collapse "overnight". It took close to 4 decades, between 1644 and 1683 for the Ming dynasty to fall and for the Qing dynasty to be fully established.
Hello Sir, I am a Malay but I'm very interested in learning about our Chinese, Peranak, Baba Nyonya brothers and sisters. Thank you for setting up this channel and I hope more people will get to learn from this channel and the community. The culture and language needs to protected, preserved and passed on the next generations and this is a good start of digitalising some parts of them!
Fabulous! I hope that through my videos, you can get lots of information about the Chinese in West Malaysia and Singapore.
@@totesmalotes7988 first start by supporting us to be recognised as bumiputra
Thanks so much, Timothy, for giving me an insight to my heritage as a former SG Chinese. This has been fascinating causing me to yearn to learn more. Looking forward to your follow up videos. Don’t worry about the nitpicking ones, let them be like water off the back of the swan. Keep paddling gracefully 😊
Thank you sir, you are so kind!
This is new research as it happens. You know, a few years ago, I split the Chinese into 3 successive migration waves. At that time, I lumped the Peranakan with the Baba Nyonya. But since then, based on their differing history, I find it necessary to split them as separate waves. In future, I may continue to modify, according to what I learn next.
There will be more videos as I continue to improve my knowledge of our history.
Thank you for documenting this! It allows me to understand my ancestors' (in Xiamen, Quanzhou) reasons to migrate South. I am already a 5th generation Peranakan/Nyonya as the presence of the mother of my great grandmother in KL preceded her daughter's marriage (Lye Beng Huat) to my paternal great grandfather (Peter Lim Teow Chong, Penang Free School's School Captain). Our family has been in KL since the late 1800's.
I had to speed up the video by 1.75x to read the transcripts to get through it faster.
Thanks so much for watching this video. Yes, totally fine that you speed it up, as I tend to be convoluted!
@@learnpenanghokkien it's educational & helps us to understand our origins better!
Excellent idea
@@learnpenanghokkien feels like you're just winging it off a brief outline instead of making a script first. And the transcript was made after the video.
From the podcast as an example, might I suggest doing it the other way around and write the script first? Makes things so much more smoothly and eliminates the temptation to meander. 😂
It is a very good, informative video. Can't imagine the time you put into researching it. Subscribed, waiting for your next video. Working through the back catalog. Especially eager to learn to read and write. 😊
PS: don't forget to 👍. I'm bookmarking this to share with friends and family.
@@danielch6662 I'm most interested to pursue not just the origin of my " ":'Penang Hokkien - speaking Nyonya."
Community living
in Serdang, close to Sungei
,???.- forgotten 😊 the
name of the River and the town is named.
But. It's in the North of KL
In.the state of Selangnor.
Today, the Govt. has built
the KL Internatilonal Airport infront of Serdang, 😂the town that was
buillt on Sungei ??? But
Its where my in paternal Grandmother wh 24:58 😊o comes
from the "Penang Hokkien Speaking Nyonya Chinese
Inheriti 24:58 ed the. LANazDs
Your topic is interesting but very quickly it gets to be boring because you keep repeating the same information over and over again. You are simply and unnecessarily too long winded.
Yes, I know that too. Unfortunately, I can get rather long winded and repetitive. Even I myself am aware. That's why I pass on some of the "duties" of explaining to the podcast, otherwise, I know I will take twice the amount of time to say the same amount of thing!
For people who just want to know which event go straight to 5:01
True, sir, but it would be useful to get the introduction, otherwise the Great China Incident would be just another event in Chinese history. What is important is to know, that this event is the start of a chain of events shifts the history of the Chinese in the Malay peninsula (which hitherto was confined to Malay-speaking Peranakans) towards a Chinese population that speak a variety of Chinese languages. The same impact extends to other places in Southeast Asia, although in places like Thailand and Indonesia, nationalism has since eroded the ability of their Chinese population's from speaking the original Chinese languages that their forefathers brought.
@@learnpenanghokkien Yes. I truly appreciate your elaborated video. It's just that sometimes we want to find out certain things so it's helpful to have timestamps that tells the viewers where to look out for what they want. You can try the automatic chapter feature or add it manually in the description. This will also help the SEO of your video.
Great way of explaining the fall of Ming empire!! Looking forward to your next posting!! Thanks for your research!! 🎉
Thank you sir for watching this video. I hope that I do justice to our history, and that the Chinese in West Malaysia and Singapore who watch these videos will realise that their being here is not a coincidence, but the results of "layers" of migration built one over the other, over the centuries.
@@learnpenanghokkien I will certainly share your posts with my friends in UK!! 👍🏻
Thank you sir. There's more coming, because I am covering every aspect of our history bit by bit, and I am trying my best not to be long winded!
Ryukyuan kingdom cannot be forgotten too in understanding how Peranakan Chinese have so distinct culture than Sin-khek, I think. After Zheng He or Cheng Ho, the Okinawans, as the Ryukyu officers, did more on traveling to Nanyang than mayority of Chinese people moreover Ming officers.
Thanks for the information. Right now I do not know anything about the Ryukyuan kingdom. Maybe one day in future, I will have the time to get to know it more.
Cool video! It’s very similar to a story in our family-our ancestor fled the collapse of the Ming dynasty and landed in Indonesia. I didn’t know it was part of a larger migration wave.
we the peranakans are not pendatang, we are bumiputra. we have more generations here than rohingya 2nd genration, siam community and mahatir family.
I hope my explanation will help shed some light into our history in this region, a history that is now centuries old.
@@learnpenanghokkien i am 11th generation melacca peranakan and we are not recognised as bumiputra. no logic.
Baba Nyonya exist in South Thailand and there were border overlap in northern Malaysia which includes Penang with Siamese empire 😒
Agreed.
@KudaLamori-f3o pls enlighten us how. We will appoint you as our leader
Thanks for sharing. Also there's cross border migration that happened as well across Indonesia and Malaysia (and vice-versa). e.g. my family can trace one of our great great grand mother being a daughter of a wealthy chinese buinessman based in Palembang but was send to Melaka in the early 1800 (around 1820s) during the fall of Palembang Sultanate to the Dutch. We believe that he must have been on the wrong camp (siding the Malay ruler) rather than the Dutch and so feared reprisal and thus send off his 2 youngest children Malaya
There certainly is, sir. When we speak of cross-border migration, this tends to blur the lines. For example, there's no stopping the Peranakans in Melaka from migrating to Singapore and Penang, and they certainly did. And when they do that, they interacted with Penang's Baba Nyonyas, making it difficult to differentiate who is whom, and by their subsequent generation, even their children couldn't tell the differences apart.
Thankyou for making this informational video ❤
Thank you so much!
Where did the Chinese came from who first came to brunei? Do you know?
I do not know, sir, but as the Hokkiens controlled the mercantile trade in the South China Sea, I guess they too are Hokkiens from Fujian Province.
@@learnpenanghokkien I just wanna say that it is so fortunate that the Peranakans are not muslims given that they marry malay and indonesian women . If they did, we wouldn't be able to eat those delicious Peranakan food with pork.
👍 well explained n presented...keep going. Channal greater viewerships assured. ❤️ 😀
Thank you so much 🙂
I can learn from you. And I may compare with Peranakan & Baba Nyonya in Indonesia. Best regards from Indonesia 🇮🇩❤🎉🇲🇾
At the moment, my knowledge of the Peranakan and Baba Nyonya in Indonesia is limited. I recommend looking at the videos by Bernie Lokman for his take on the Peranakan in Indonesia. I will improve my knowledge of that in future.
Ming dynasty fell because a disengaged general, Wu Sangui, who was posted to the border, decided to open the gate for the Qing at Sanhai Guan, that allowed the Qing forces to go through to take the capital.
While Ming didn't fall immediately, that incident forced a sudden collapse to the Ming power. So it can be said that Ming "sudden" fall is just as true as it still held on to part of China until the last moment four decades later.
Yes, I agree that the Ming's "sudden" fall is not correct.
there is no such baba-nyonya, lao-khek, sin-khek etc. it's just an evolution of migration culture of chinese and happened relatively in a short time. now the word "peranakan" is sold as a marketing gem. omg
Yes, many are cashing in on the word Peranakan for commercial gains.
Hello what is the name of the podcast? And is it available in Spotify ? Tq
No sir, you can only find it as incorporated into my videos. But no worries, I intend to include them as and when they are relevant to the topic I am covering.
Do a video of Austronesian and malays origin and how they make believe they are ingenious eg bumiputra
Presently this is outside my scope, as my hands are full as it is.
Is very good to know the roots of peranakan heritage,bet you some of us really dont know how it came about,each hsehold has it own existance even their style of cooking method,agar,agar not written down by past nyonya ,but still follow chinese tradition ancestor offering n pantang ,during festival celebration,that is still in practice today but not in a big way inhse,tok panjang full of nyonya secret recipes is kept only to immediate fmly,daughter will hold it bibi recipe,son mostly oversea educated staying oversea their children will loose the peranakan tradition,with western idelogy/religion,my hats goes up to you in keeping this traditional livelihood,hokkien language do not forget the peranakan heritage is still around but to bring them together, hope yr program n history can open back the eyes of the BABA communites in the straits settlements that is still around n not lost,THANK YOU ?
Sir, I am delighted that you are keeping your heritage alive!
I blame illiteracy for the lack of proper documentation of our history. Right up to the 20th century, the privilege to learn to read and write is confined to only the elites and those with means. And often, it was the boys who got the chance to learn to read and write, while the girls were forced to be homemakers. As such, much of our domestic history is lost or improperly documented.
This is one Chinese culture i could'nt believe. Babies girl are discarded and thanks God these kind hearted Malay woman-folks took them and raised them as their own.
👍👍🙂 Greetings from BC🇨🇦
Thank you so much for writing from so far away!
@@learnpenanghokkien my family and I are originally from Singapore. I find your lessons helpful in helping me brush up on my mother tongue, but more so are your historical anecdotes. Keep up the good work👍👍🙂
Yes Timothy, you are longwinded. Very hard for you to get to the point. That's no good to do good broadcast. Nowadays we are busy with short attention span
Ha ha ha, I am well aware of that, but it's the substance that people appreciate from my video, not the delivery, as you can see, from all the comments.
I presume the LauKheks and SinKheks are meant as guests in English rather than the Hakka ethnicity.
Yes please. Lau33khaek3 and Sin3khaek3 are terms used to denote the periods when the Chinese immigrants arrived in this region. It is not Khaek1lang2, the Hakka.
You are talking in circle, you kept repeating the same thing again and again, it's kind of tiring to listen to. Try to get to the point after 2-3 minutes but not longer than that.
Yes, Anne, I tend to do that! Even I recorgnize it! Hopefully in future, I can learn to edit out the repetitions.
ok, javanese chinese here, its normal for us to curse one and another, 'singkek mindring'
means crazy singkek.
you both can use this in this matter 😁
thanks for the video, TaKe 🙏
I like it like that. I have nothing better to do. I like to listen to this while taking a💩
🚽
To populate the
Area?
Due it was hardship and like many other in the past, moving around is normal- especially in Asia where nomadic life was normal.
Super interesting but your narration is too long winded to get to your point which takes away the interest of your audience
Ming dynasty second Emperor朱允炆also run to Nanyang become Baba nyonya origin
Really? I didn't know that. If in future I get this information, I may share about it.
Hence, we have BNM* today...* Baba Nyonya Malaysia, Bank Negara Malaysia and not forgetting Barisan Nasional Malaysia.."Daulat Tuanku!"
:D
Firstly, thanks a million for making this video. It's informative & concise, However, true to yourself, as u admitted, aiyooohhhh....U very long winded & repetitive la😁
I will learn to improve myself and be less long winded! There's so much information up here in my head, each time I started recording, they are like tumbling over each other to be told first!
@@learnpenanghokkien Everyone have their own style, u have yours.
The traitor, Ming General Wu Sang Kui opened the gates with the connivance of Ming eunuchs within the city gates let in the Manchus main force. The first 20 or so years, of Manchu rule was riddled with bad karma that resulted in the suicide of the 1st Manchu Emperor who became a monk before his death and various royal family calamities. The story is depicted in YT " Love My Bro-in-law, the Emperor" Eng Sub 40 Episodes.
Thanks for sharing your knowledge!
I knew the term "sinkeh" but not "laokeh".😊
The term Sin3khaek3 (this is spelled using Taiji Romanisation) is certainly more popular as most of us are Sin3khaeh3, and Sin3khaeh3 migrants start around roughly the mid 19th century, but they were able to come here due to the mercantile activities of the preceding group, the Lau3khaek3. The Lau3khaek3 is what the Sin3khaek3 call their predecessor.
Why is this video not in Penang Hokkien.
Because it's in English.
Becos I don't know enough Penang Hokkien to describe the complexity of the evolution of the Penang Speaking Minang tribe.l
Kam3 siah33
Brilliant job! Keep it up. ❤
Kam1siah33 lu4 ce33-ce33!
👍👍👍🙏
The podcasters on the Ming could well be describing Washington of today. Just change the Ming Dynasty to us empire and you’ll know this is what is happening there today.😂😂😂 collapse!
I'm speechless!
Inviting the Manchu to help them, sounds like what Taiwan is doing right now. We are witnessing these world events unfold as though history repeating itself.
If there is no migration out from Africa then we all won't be here as well......
That, I suppose, happened a long, long, long, long, long time ago!
@@learnpenanghokkien Depend on how you compare it........If compare to the Earth age then it's very short time!
On this subject - I highly recommend this video: ua-cam.com/video/KY03VObgdzA/v-deo.html The events in this video happen a while after the fall of the Ming Dynasty but are related to it.
Thank you for sharing. I will view it. I love going through all information available.
I have just glanced at the video. Yes, as you said, this is after the fall of the Ming Dynasty. In fact a long time after! This Hakka-Punti war marks or coincides with the start of the Sin3khaek3 migration period of the peninsula. I will go through the whole video as soon as I have the chance.
@@learnpenanghokkien From what I understand, this war was caused by the long term effects of the Qing Dynasty's depopulation of the coast opposite Taiwan, even though this had happened several generations before the war started. And I was surprised to find out that the Hai San - Ghee Hin quarrel in Larut had its roots in this war. Looking forward to your upcoming videos.
Gannu sokmoh doh:)
Ha1mik1 ni4?
@@learnpenanghokkien Terengganu da best:)
From Gannu Hokkien lang…..well and perak Gongfuyan:)
The woman should just stay silence, irritating. Let the man narrate the history like a documentary. I had to go into transcription and kept skipping all the unnecessary jargons…for the main info. My mom family are babas n Nyonya..but half way l just gave up listening to
Yes, women were forced into unjust silence. And as a result of that, now it's impossible to accurately determine the start date of all our Nyonya dishes.
Kamsiah kamsiah, yum seng yum seng!
Kam1siah33, kam1siah33!
you can make this video in 30 seconds or less. talk a lot
Notoriously so, sir. Notoriously long winded, I know myself.
too long winded
Yes, oh yes, even I agree! Hopefully, over time, I can learn to improve!
Load of rubbish.👎👎👎
Thank you for your opinion.
Malaysians din even talk much about Nonya culture until singapore popularised it. Malaysia is a copy cat.
Noted.
That Singaporean series was a great introduction to the Baba Nonya culture & food. Yes Malaysia needs to do more to promote its incredible diversity.
Angmos telling us about Chinese history? Hahahaha
It is computer-generated podcast sir.