obsessed with how vaush will point to a study or an example of what he’s talking about and this guy will go “uhm. no” and refuse to elaborate. an incredibly frustrating convo lmao
These guys...like...it's exhausting. The average height is 5'9" and the average male 40 year old is a non-virgin. See also: the average BMI. it's like they refuse to account for the idea of individual taste or familiarity creating attraction or personality matches or anything at all except "evolution" that they honestly barely understand.
The essence of the incel philosophy is a fear and dislike of women, and a complex system of copes and levers to continually justify their distance from women. It was never about evidence.
"I'm not nihilistic, I'm not like the other incels" and "you cant change our fucked dating system for the better, it's impossible, it can't be done" are both positions stated by this man, incredible
He's purely going off vibes, so when he says he's not a nihilist, he's saying he doesn't _feel_ like a nihilist, even though he is. He doesn't know what these words means, and he hasn't thought about anything beyond a surface level
@@GloomdrakeIdeally nihilism isn’t a feeling but a philosophy. Of course it can be a feeling and it can come in the form of depression, disorder, ect but nihilism is a philosophy so he is being a nihilist albeit a very ignorant or uneducated nihilist but still a nihilist.
Today I had pretty much this same conversation with a guy, but about the actual economy, not the "sexual market" incels talk about. "There's corruption in our current system but that's the way it HAS to be because it can't be fixed. It's a feature, not a bug. The only thing you can do is claw your way to the top and piss on everyone below you!"
A lot of incels don't want sex specifically. They want intimacy. They want this one person who they can fully trust, who has not had other people, who chooses them and who they choose. They don't WANT to be "slutty"
@@PsychoCalamander Well they're gonna have a hard time if they treat a girl like some final boss of a video game that they can only unlock with certain appearance raitings and shit.
@@vapingfury4460 yes, because it's so ridiculously hard. Why shouldn't a person be praised for being confident, hard working, putting all the effort into something that is so hard to achieve?
@@PsychoCalamander Just a silly standard who gives af if they've been with someone unless you have like some kind virginity fetish thing or something. You're concern should be their character or if you can hook up
i always find it so strange when these people are so interested in sexual dynamics and dating and then have no fucking clue how non straight relationships work
Because they aren't interested in sexual dynamics and dating. They're just interested in crying because a gorgeous model hasn't kicked in their door and demaned the priviledge of orally pleasuring them.
Most incels/MRAs/Redpills are homophobes who don't take non-straight relationships seriously. They think lesbians are mentally ill and men go gay so they don't have to deal with women. And they're transmedicalists/truscum at best if not outright transphobic.
Insane that people like this exist. Dude starts out the dialog saying Vaush is misunderstood in thinking the Blackpill community is full of nihilism and doomerism and essentially just given up, then spends the entirety of the debate shooting down any suggestions to better the community and proceeds to be nihilistic and doomer about relationships and sex. No thoughts just vibes
They don't know what words mean beyond knowing what they think are bad words and good. It's literally that deep, you literally need to be anti intellectual to be pulled into this kinda pipeline
BP is not doomer and nihilistic. It is about certain stuff in dating. BP is about 3/10 guy can't get 5/10 girls with all the game and charisma in the world or that 5/10 guy has to do a list of things to a partner of the same level. Also, it implies to not have strings too attached to each women you are dating, because she can swap you for a next guy in a line out of the blue. These are just the examples. Overall, BP is saying the dating world is a tough game with no place for ugly, short, unattractive men and one have to work hard to get any results.
@@nurtaytulegenov7431 "BP is not doomer" "BP is saying the dating world is a tough game" I don't even disagree with the Blackpill community on those notions; yes I agree that the dating world is a tough game. But similar social obstacles for men also exist for women. 3/10 women struggle to get with 5/10 men. Women are also afraid of being swapped for the next girl in line out of the blue, and possibly more so, since men are more likely to cheat than women, mostly because men are hornier than women. The only difference is that men are more incentivized to enter the dating scene due to biologically having far stronger sexual impulses, so their motivated presence in the dating scene leads to men facing more rejection than women overall, which leads to the Blackpill community being mostly male dominated. Just like women won't lower their standards for unattractive men, men won't lower their standards for unattractive women, but women are more likely to be content with being single due to their comparative lack of sexual urge. But instead of realizing that men are hornier than women on average, the Blackpill community derives some rather disturbingly misogynistic conclusions instead.
@@youtubeviolatedme7123 imho, blackpill shouldn't be that popular. It may be short term useful for some average looking guy, who doesn't groom himself nor exercise, but I bet his friends and girlfriends will tell him that before. BP for a longterm is for ugly dwarves such as myself, who don't get passed this first threshold. For this category BP is doom and gloom, but it's such a small minority that won't be as prominent on the internet. About sex drive, I don't think female got that much lower drive than man. Women get lots of their emotional needs closed with friends, which for guys is considered "gay", like hugs or laying on top of each other. So men pushed not only by sex drive, but other deprivations. This kind of problem more cultural and may be fixed, but not in this generation
@@nurtaytulegenov7431 Learn science-based meditation to fight stress, produce happiness and produce efforts to achieve your goals. It will also help you not be nervous to talk to anyone as you become a fearless person. Exercise, eat healthy to live longer and choose your romantic partner based on personality and not looks or sexual desperation. Do not be tempted by addictions such as greed, being the most dangerous one because you will be in denial of your sadness and your ego will tell you to hide it. Remember knowledge is power and ignorance is not bliss. Hope this help you and have a nice day.
Being a woman watching these kinds of debates is wild. Vaush will practically say what I’m thinking verbatim and the incel guy will be like “no!! Women don’t think that!!! >:(“
you arent honest. While observing socity it becomes clear that the waffles is correct Also, go learn what an "incel" is. Calling anyone who disagrees with you an "incel" just makes you look stupid
Yeah see, you just don't want to admit what you really feel. These incels know women better than they know themselves, which is why they're so successful with them.
@SaintKines do you not see the contradiction in saying that incels have success with women?? The entire basis of their identity is not having success with women, "involuntarily celibate," it's in the name my dude
"Women don't find feminine men attractive" is the most hilarious out of touch take i think I've heard, Just wait till this man discovers the fucking onceler fandom.
@@YokaiX theres a difference between "pretty-boy" and feminine. Like pretty boy chads just have pretty faces whislt STILL having all the generic things women want (hight, jawline, wide shoulders, etc). "Feminine" on the otherhand implies shortness, wide hips, things that are all unattractive to straight women on a visceral level (on men)
Any tumblr sexy man tbh. Girls on Tumblr wanted to fuck bill cipher. Plus in non weird normie land- pretty boys have been a thing from young Justin Bieber to twilight to timothee chalamet (idk how to spell). There are studies saying it's very common for women to be attracted to feminine guys.
That is mostly correct though, most Women do not find feminine men attractive. I say most because yes some Women like feminine Men but the Majority do not.
I hate how these whatever-pill types primarily refer to people by their attractiveness rating. It’s so dehumanizing! Maybe this is a me thing, but I have never in my life thought of the attractiveness of people I was into or in relationships with on a 1-10 scale. I’ve been able to personally determine if I find someone hot or not, but it was never with some weird grading scale. I just find some people attractive, and when looking for a partner, I find them attractive based in part on their looks and in part on their personality. I just don’t understand the mindset of these dudes
i think its possible to compare people in terms of physical attractiveness and thus rank them, but putting a number on it is weird & silly, because its very subjective and vague
No see you don't get it, they're not ranking how much they like those people because the men who do this shit are terminally disconnected from their own feelings. Emotionally, they're toddlers and are completely incapable of introspection. What they're "ranking" is how much status they think sleeping with a certain woman will give them with other men.
true, this may just be my aroace leaking, but i can still find people attractive and it's never just a number, it's a "oh they have a cute nose" "they have a friendly smile" or other such anecdotal stuff, i rarely look at people and go "ugly" or "7/10"
This was so funny. "Women only want men with abs" "Most women will thirst over a guy with broad shoulders and a bit of a belly." "NO! NO! THAT'S NOT TRUE!" 🤣
It’s not true though do Tinder experiments most women don’t want an overweight guy. If you’re talking a bear mode guy with decent amount of muscle that’s different. There’s a guy called men’s maxxing who made a perfect video explaining what most women want through his own experience having gone through each stage. Basically 80% of women like a guy who’s lean and looks like he’s an intermediate lifter. Then another group like that same guy except on the heavier side aka bear mode. Then girls who are fit and workout themselves tend to prefer the extra jacked guys. At the very least from my experiments I can confirm extra jacked guys get way more likes all else equal, it can literally be a 5x multiplier. Which is weird because most women will say they don’t like muscle, makes me wonder if it’s just a bunch of girls who are into this type of guy all drawing attention but it’s a little too high for that considering there’s only so many female profiles within a 50-100 mile radius
@@KurokamiNajimi dude, Tinder is not real life. Even what the blackpill dude said about attractive guys cleaning up shop on dating apps and night clubs is shotty if you ask me considering I struggle to get matches on dating apps but there have been very few times I've gone to a night club and not been approached by at least one attractive woman while I was there. Using Tinder statistics as the benchmark is not reliable especially when, based on what I've been told by girl friends, most women don't even bother using Tinder.
He is seriously saying eating disorders have nothing to do with beauty standards for women and it’s all just “being too emotional.” I’m done. There was a picture of a “chubby” girl from a movie in 2002 that was going around recently and she was literally a thin woman. No wonder we felt insecure and often starved ourselves! Vaush is 100% correct here and the other dude is delusional. He kept harping on body positivity which is a *recent* thing. And a lot of people still laugh at that stuff. (Mainly men.) Vaush is correct that women started the movement for body positivity because women were the ones who needed it most.
Men don't suppoert the body positivity movement because they aren't affected the same way women are, but I would say a lot of men do suffer from body dysmorphia in the sense that they have to get bigger in terms of muscles.
Sure, the black pill has its share of exaggerated claims and sweeping generalizations that might not hold water, but I think there's a nugget of truth in there somewhere. The thing is, the black pill idea isn't just a one-size-fits-all answer. It's like trying to fit a complex puzzle piece into a simple frame. Some folks might find comfort in quickly accepting certain aspects of dating reality, rather than trying to change things they may or may not be able to change about themselves, which I don't necessarily think is correct either. But idk I just wish people would be more empathetic to those who genuinely struggle and find solace in the community overall...
Men have have a worse beauty/self-image crisis than women, even though the latter gets most of the attention/pity. It's because of steroids and other drugs, generations of males now want to look like superheroes, and to do so one has to take steroids like the actors who play them do.
I’ll admit, as a man I have been discouraged in the past by my lack of matches with women on dating apps. I wondered if there was something inherently unattractive about me. That feeling soon went away once I allowed men to see my profile (I’m bi) and the likes came flooding in. I do think the reason straight men don’t get many matches is because the vast majority of dating app users are other men.
According to a statistic I pulled out from the internet Tinder has around 75 million users which 78.1% of them are men while 21.9% of them are women so unless they are into polygamy 3/4 men won't be able to find a women due to math
I recently started trying out dating apps and have the exact same experience, except for the "being bi" thing. The gender ratio is insane, and is made even worse by half the women (or more) just writing their IG account in their bio and never engaging with the app again. It´s basically something like 10 guys for every one woman who actually goes on the app sometimes. Also, almost all the dating apps are becoming more and more greedy these days. They will go as far as to actively suppress your profile in the algorithm unless you pay them money. I never had any incel-type feelings despite being unsuccessful with women my whole life (it´s not their fault they are not interested, why the hell would people blame them for that?), but after going on dating apps and trying my luck there, I definitely see where those feelings might be coming from. It´s an absolutely soul-crushing experience to put yourself out there in the best possible light and get zero engagement. As a man, unless you are willing to spend hours upon hours doing photoshoots and weeks/months swiping, you might as well try the local park instead. The chances of meeting women are about the same, and at least you will get some fresh air and excercise.
@@jirkazalabak1514 Yeah that’s the thing as well, in my experience guys will also put way more effort into their dating app profiles than girls, girls will usually just put their social media usernames and nothing else whereas guys will typically put SOMETHING there that indicates who they are as a person. I do wonder why that is. It’s interesting.
Bro is saying that women are anorexic because they're emotional, by that logic men, who take up a higher percentage in suicide rates, are hella emotional and dramatic then? It's like he can't comprehend what other existing reasons there are for these issues.
Feminists typically claim women have just as high rates of suicide but "men choose more lethal methods so they are more successful". Also, don't you think it massively depends WHY you become emotional? Whether it's because you didn't get enough likes on Instagram or whether it's because you can't see your kid after divorce?
@@ericosagie3046 as an abstract concept sure, but they think they can objectively determine someone’s value in the marketplace as if it’s an objective figure. In reality it’s more like a flea market
These guys are frustrating because there’s a kernel of truth to what they saying regarding male body positivity, but they cover that point in so much bullshit that it severely dilutes what the message should be: that both men AND women should be allowed to live without being shamed for factors beyond their control. For example, height is a big insecurity among many in the incel community (and guys in general) and in that regard I do sympathize. It is very disheartening for short men, particularly in the West. It feels like that is the last bastion where men can be ridiculed with no constraint and it’s considered socially acceptable, along with being bald and dick shaming. I think we should be acknowledging this insecurity and addressing the fact that, socially, we lionize height in men to the capacity that men who do not fit that average are inherently seen as lesser.
True. People should be able to live their life like normal, even if they dont fit "attraction standards". Having bitches/bastards fawning over you like hell isnt necassery for living a great life. Go do something else, improve yourself before expecting affection. And even if it takes you time, yes, there probably is somebody out there who would want romantic and/or sexual relations with you. It may just take some time before you meet them if you dont fit the societal default.
Imagine developing a personality instead of obsessing over jawlines and muscles. These people don't want a partner, they want to hook up with a model for a one night stand and that she will then tell them that she did it because they have such a stunning jawline she just couldn't resist.
@@imhopelesslyaddictedtofent4266 do you know how many 5 ft 3 bald Indian dudes have wives? I do see them. It might be hard for you if you never go outside but yes I have seen all kinds of couples out there
as someone who knows a lot of straight girls, the bar is so low it's in hell at this point. i've seen my friends be in so many toxic or outright abusive relationships, but they won't leave the guy because he gives them attention, grooms himself, doesn't force them into sex and has a smidge of personality. but for clarification i'm balkan, a lot of guys here are mysoginistic or toxic, it's the standart
It sucks being a guy sometimes. I was raised under someone who was deeply toxicly masculine who told me not to cry because "nobody cared" It's hard to put my guard down around people. I'm glad Vaush could debate things like this to not have people be too doomer for their own good.
I will say this though to a certain degree I think your father is right for the most part society does not care for us men if we open up and start to cry or show emotions society as a whole for the most part tends to look at that as a weakness even if it's not meant to be seen in that light it's just how people perceive it because of biologically speaking we're not supposed to really show off emotions like that Because it shows weakness and our enemies can exploit that weakness but I totally get where you're coming from and your dad probably took it way to far.
Right, I'm going to offer a counterpoint to Crash here. Obviously a certain degree of stoicism is expected just from the fact you're a dude. Fair. But I think too much of anything is a bad thing. If you're too stoic, you come off as an emotionless robot with no empathy. You cry too much, that also repels people because they think you're overdramatizing your issues when so many people have it so much worse - it's also just a sign of instability, as well as fragility, regardless of the gender. Say for a second your dad is right - he's not, but let's say he is. Even if no one in the world cared about your tears, it's important that *you* care for your tears. Obviously don't shed them for any little thing, but you should give enough of a damn about your pain to release it instead of holding onto it. Given that guys are so predisposed to concealing their emotions, it basically bursts open like a dam when you finally let it out. Toxic masculinity is tricky conditioning to break, but it does get better if you at least take the time to chip away at it slowly. Showing at least some occasional vulnerability makes you seem more emotionally available, which will help you with family, girlfriends, homies, you name it.
it takes practice, buddy. even just being exposed in the background radiation of masculinity as per society makes it harder for guys to open up to other guys
i was raised to believe that if you cry or express emotion you're annoying and unbearable, and i've heard both leftists and right wingers repeat this point. our society just doesnt like dealing with emotions. hell, i've even heard vaush complain that people who express their emotions are insufferable. i dont even know if it's a toxic masculinity thing. I think it's more of a toxic positivity thing, and not wanting to deal with other's emotions. it could also be a distrust thing, where you worry that you'll look like a manipulator if you express your emotions in any real way.
"You're not man enough to be vulnerable? That sounds like weakness, pussy." is what got me out of that mindset. You can find people who legitimately care about you.
if this guy is representative of Black Pill, then I think their main issue is not reading the room or a lack of awareness. he was so stubborn in his thinking. so weird, thinking he knows what other people like.
He does not. I have a lot of positions that can easily be called "black pill" especially wrt dating and romance. They include practically nothing this guy is saying.
@@Jorge-np3tq Let's be frank though marketing is pretty crap at knowing what women want, too. /gestures at videogames "for girls" and how shyte those are, gestures at plastering pink on everything and saying that's for women
@@neoqwerty I think that's because most people making decisions in marketing are men. But you are just saying "marketing for women is done wrong" not "marketing for women will never work".
I was screaming in chat and real life. There were so many times it felt like he might make a breakthrough, but then his mental defences kick in and cause the most insane things to tumble out of his mouth.
Your comment heavily - albeit inadvertently - reminds me of a song I really like yet haven't heard in a while. _Soluble Words_ by ON (2000). Genuine thanks for that.
you can't accurately survey people about what they want because of social desirability bias. A phenomenon where people answer questions not according to their taste, but according to how favorably their answers will be to everybody else.
I think when it comes to terms of attractiveness, Vaush is incredibly comfortable in his own skin. He knows how he is attractive and that his appeal isn't universal. Can't say the same for the talking waffle avatar though.
"the gay community is a lot more online than the straight community" Vaush: "yeah and they're a lot hornier too" Boi i can just feel the mild annoyance dripping from that line XD knowing how guilty i am... It had me wheezing XD
As a bi woman, I'd say us being more chill is more down to our more open-minded views and willingness to have interesting conversations more than it's that we've been in the same boat with courting as men. I grew up in the south and from my experiences conservative/libertarian women and some straight girls in general tend to be more exclusionary and hard to approach to anyone who doesn't fit inside their bubble. Even as a woman who was only interested in acquaintances with these women, I had a hard time breaking thru any walls bc they were really only interested in people who thought and looked exactly like them. I think the queer community is taught a lot about inclusion, and you can see that reflected in our friend groups. A lot of queer communities are welcome to newcomers, while straight women tend to stick to their ridged bubbles. That's just something I've noticed tho, other bi women might have a different perspective.
The amont of self-insert assumptions about social circles from this debate was wild. One of the worst ones was when he says "yeah in a group of guy friends, they'll just bully their fat friend and calll them ' you fat pig'"......bro, what kind of guy friends do you have? Even in straight man circles, most of them are not so horribly socially inept to do that to their friends...because if you just bully somebody, and it's not good natured ribbing....your not friends? The amount of self-loathing this guy must have. "I must be in tip top shape to be accepted by society".
That guy really sounds like one of those bullies, who isn't aware that he's being a bully. That's actually fairly common. That you have really mean-spirited people, who think they're just being "funny" and just "teasing their buddies". I think this guy needs to get a reality check on many things...
I love how this guy is so inappropriately confident that he just keeps putting numbers on his opinions as if he’s done any research or read any research!
I think his issue is that he keeps trying to quantify literally everything and broadly apply it to every single woman. I think once you're busting out calculators, history books, graphs, protractors, etc, when thinking about asking someone they like to hang out, you've already lost. If people really want solutions, we need to bring back communal social spaces and get back to a point where working a 9-5 for 4-5 days out of the week was enough. People have no free time, less money, less communal spaces to choose from. That, and the whole social media breaking everyone's brains stuff. The other part is literally people like this dude. They sell a self fulfilling prophecy as content. Nobody wants to be around someone they know sounds like this dude. It's just taking the one woman you know who dated and took advantage of everyone... But them, so they apply it to all women as a post hoc justification for what is most likely just having a repellent personality.
I think there are two main reasons for the rise of incels. First is the impossible beauty standards being pushed on everyone, making many people feel inadequate. The second, much more important factor is dating apps. When you account for the inactive and fake profiles, there are probably about 6 to 10 men for every one woman on these apps. It creates an extremely competitive environment where the winners take all and losers are left with nothing. And when you factor in that the swiping itself is extremely boring, the experience of having no matches at all is absolutely soul-crushing. You waste an hour or more of your time every day doing what feels like a chore for no gain whatsoever. I saw myself becoming a worse and more hateful person after trying these apps for just a couple of weeks, and can´t possibly imagine what it must be like for men who have spent years there without getting a match. That shit can screw up your mind really badly.
Biggest reason for the recent rise of incels is social media. Social media gives more options to women just like dating apps and thus their standards rise. But unlike dating apps pretty much every young woman is on social media.
I meaaan, no. Fact is men are simply having less sex than women, because men ask out women, and women seem to rotate the same men... I don't think it is fine, nor necessary to lie about that.
@@geraldtherat618 While social media platforms are (in my opinion) the main cause for the general toxicity in the public discourse in the last 10-15 years, I don´t think there is a direct link between them and incels. They definitely don´t help, but I don´t think most incels became that way on Instagram or Facebook.
I remember thinking my husbands photos were ugly on the dating app we met on, he isn't ugly but his pictures were awful. But his first message to me made me laugh and then proceeded to have a great engaged conversation with me. I couldn't agree to a date fast enough, now we are married with a baby.
@@gidorah this dude seems to just go “but no, other incels say this!” So I think the issue is them trusting their internal anecdotes more than data and evidence
@mr.m6038 You are overestamating the standards for comedy. Also you do not even need to be super funny-be nice, maybe funny and if you put yourself in a lot of social situations eventualy it will work out. And even if it wont-you have friends now and thats good too. No time is wasted either way.
@mr.m6038 lol I laughed at the stupidity of a tulip centric pick up line, trust me, you don’t need to be THAT funny to get a girl. Mostly just don’t be a dick.
@Mr. M maybe not. But you can make up for a lack of looks with endearing personality traits like positivity, good listening skills, good humor, extroversion, passion for causes, and … well I’ve heard that ugly dudes that get a reputation for being good at ahem… pleasing women… make up for their looks lol
Another aspect of attractiveness is familiarity. You may not be immediately attracted to someone physically but as you are around them more you may find more attraction. especially if you click in other ways.
Waffle dude straight up said "This is a societal problem, I acknowledge it, but I will not work to fix this problem in any way." It's absolutely astonishing. I kinda feel bad for him
I think the blackpill solution is to societally discourage promiscuity and to encourage seeking committed, monogamous relationships. I personally prefer that to hookup culture, but I think it should be applied to both genders equally. In other words, I have a feminist take on an otherwise conservative position.
i feel bad for who is is eventually going to kill or maim, dude is like a year or two away from being a serial killer or a rapist at most if he hasnt already.
Don't. I go to the same University as the guy- everyone on campus knows him, everyone on campus hates him. Absolute shithead and he's done it to himself.
Men and women are worried to express their real sexual preferences for fear of being judged so we should continue to judge people by those same standards. This guy is insane.
All of this physical attraction stuff sounds like it might apply to one-night hook up situations, but if you get out of the dating apps and the night clubs and start thinking about actual relationships, I guarantee that actually liking a person starts to matter so much more. When you actually love someone, their traits can literally become attractive to you, even if they otherwise wouldn't be.
But if it's not dating apps neither approaching them in a night club, where do you find them? Pretty much anywhere else you're not expected to be looking for relationships and might be seen as creepy if you are.
@@Jorge-np3tq In my experience, meeting people through mutual friends is the best way, and it's also what humans have done historically across time, space and culture. But for folks without many friends, what that means is going out and engaging in areas of interest whether that's hobbies, volunteering for a cause you believe in, and then being friendly with people you meet there. Practice social skills, create the conditions to meet new people, be kind to and interested in those people, and then let nature take it's course. You can't force freindship, and you can't force intimacy. It depends on a leap of faith.
@@yamitrap9688 As you said, that relis on having friends, and even then it's not a very large pool of potential partners. But what I find really discouraging in your position is how out of your control everything is. Faith, nature and so on. That's kind of what incel rethoric is based on, that it's not their fault. There's plenty of men with friends and more or less normal lives that are frustrated because there are many women in their lives but none of them finds them attractive and just want to be friends. They were told it would "just happen" but it never seems to happen for them. I think there's plenty of middle ground between forcing anything and just meeting people and hoping for things to happen. You mentioned social skills, and I think we shouldn't stigmatize learning and practicing specifically seduction skills. For example, despite all the toxicity in the PUA community, people should stop lumping incels and PUAs together. There's nothing inherently wrong in learning attractive behavior, and at least this way you admit it's your fault not being attractive.
@@sajtospog9888 well it's pretty rare you meet someone who is perfect in every respect and there's nothing about them you don't like, which means it's fairly inevitable that whomever one falls in love with will have traits they do not like, and what the OP is saying is that if we love a person we can even come to appreciate their aspects that we initially disliked.
@@rimzaaah5892 Yup I always notice how men always say I need a girlfriend that’s it it never I want a girlfriend so I can show her affection and she show me it’s always I need to have a gf and nothing else.
The thing with blackpillers is that they're right - but only when it comes to a very specific, shallow type of woman. They're closing themselves off to all the other women who aren't those shallow, Instagram clout seekers - meaning actually valuable women with whom you can have an actual relationship based on more than fleeting lust or transactional agreements.
The problem with those guys feels like it comes down to the fact is that they desire shallow women, mainly because theyre just intrested in sex and appearence. If it turns out the woman has actual emotions and the relationship doesnt work, they then just blame the woman for being a "dumb mentally ill bitch"
This was a great conversation. I think the main issue that most incel guys face is that they lack the social skills most men in the past had to have by default. I don’t think most incels are losers or creeps. They literally just don’t know what to do. They also conflate standards for casual sex with dating standards. The main advice I’d give for someone like that is to really work on the social/emotional skills. Go out to a bar and just try to have fun. Be open to talking to people with no intentions behind it. I used to be kinda redpill until I outgrew it, and the only valuable advice I got from that is just to be more open and social. All the other stuff is just overthinking something that should be organic.
Yes one of the biggest issues of incels is social skills. That is generally because a large portion (40-50%) of these men are neurodivergent, having issues like autism or schizophrenia. But plenty of these men are also physically unattractive.
Exactly, and if bar is too intimidating for some people then some interest group where you can meet people while doing something else. There are even meet-ups for people with social anxiety so everybody's in the same boat
You definitely hit on something. Indeed men needed and were expected to have better communication skills, be readers and engage women with general respect. Lost graces.
I find it so weird how this Waffle fellow doesn't realize how clearly he's treating women like a commodity. He says "A guy dating a woman is always at the expense of another guy" as if there's a limited number of women and we're all after them. Not to mention ignores how women also have agency and will have tastes that differ and allow different types of men the opportunity to get into a relationship.
To be „fair“, he does it both ways. He also treats guys that way, reducing them to their looks and their finances… People like that simply have a pretty horrible view of humans, in general. They have convinced themselves that they are oh so rational and intelligent (Waffles says about himself he has an IQ of 133 and considers this something to be very proud of) and therefore they think human interactions are not something to be experienced or intuited… they think it‘s all math and formulas and stuff you can just break down intellectually… To them, people are reducible to numbers.
The things that women find attractive do not vary much at all. The difference in "types" is small relative to the difference between attractive people and unattractive people.
I don't know if by agency you mean that they pursue the people what they are attracted to, but if it is then you are wrong, they don't do that. At most what they do is leave signals but that would just show that they don't have much agency, as they leave it to the men to do the rest, once they are in a relationship that may change.
@@JuliAuditoreLeaving those signals for the men is part of their agency, no? I mean if they weren't interested they obviously wouldn't leave them. If this is a concious decision on the woman's part i'd say she has agency. The lack of forwardness in approaching the guy isn't really a problem of individual agency but just borader socciatel norm of letting the men do the first step
The one thing that Vaush does right in this case, is that he doesn't outright dismiss, patronize, insults (though there be a bit of mockery but in good fun), or talk down to and actually actually acknowledges the points and has a full-on in depth conversation with this guy because he does understand there is a real issue on this problem and understands where this shit often leads young men like this interlocutor. And that's to acknowledge and treat this with more respect and dignity than what most influential people have been doing these years.
Yea but it's so insane how constantly vaush tries to focus on the root causes or what can be done to fix the problems while the incel guy just runs 400 miles out left field and points to traditional and toxic gender values despite those only worsening the issues
One of my favorite things about Vaush. I hate when an idiot spews hate and nonsense as much as the next guy, but I’d rather figure out why they’re saying these things then here a cacophony of debate lords interrupting and yelling at each other.
It deserves respect and dignity. It’s a systemic issue that’s hurting a lot of people, and discussing it amicably on a big platform is a good way to bring it into the mainstream. Can’t solve a problem without analysis, right?
@@painunending4610 Confidence is just an aftermath feeling That comes as a result of Gained Success, Nothing More Nothing Less, Specifically Speaking In The Dating World and Dating Scene.
Im quite confident (as a woman) that almost universally women don't wanna date guys who are obsessing over this shit. This might be their main problem and not their jawlines or height. I could be into a guy but as soon as I found out that his hobby is analysing what type of bodyfat ratio "all women" are into and all this other nonsense, I'd be running in the other direction. Women are attracted primarily to whats between your ears and this is just offputting.
Honestly, same this dude that was attractive and 6’7” came up to me off the street to get my number, but I rejected him because he followed me home and kept doing other weird stuff. Like trust me looks don’t matter when you are this weird.
@@auxiliarycord9247 Not gonna lie, I keep seeing comments from guys saying women may indeed be generally uncomfortable with things like what you just described happening to you, but that the moment the guy is conventionally attractive, they'll give him a pass. I'm a guy, so I'm not 100% sure what to make of those makes, though my gut tells me that that's only true in the sense that people who are more well-groomed and physically presentable may be better at not seeming creepy. As a general rule though, even if a guy looks very good, it's my understanding that if he resorts to doing something like what you described, physical appearance would no longer really matter
@@technoloverish In general yeah, a creep's a creep no matter how attractive he is, and you're right that a lot of it is well-groomed guys not giving off creep vibes right away. But because women are not a monolith, there are definitely a few who aren't right in the head who will give attractive creeps a pass. A lot of it is low self-esteem and purposeful self-sabotage. Men do it too. For example, some guys simp for the real life "yandere killer" girl who stabbed her boyfriend because "if I can't have you, no one can" - obviously a creep, but she was cute. Those murder simps are in no way representative of the average man, just as the shallowest women on instagram are not representative of the average woman. That's the problem with comments like those and the blackpill rhetoric in general. An example doesn't make a rule.
16:40 heterochromia would probably have been a better example of "non symmetrical beauty" than lazy eyes. Not that lazy eyes cant be attractive, i just think a black pill wouldn’t accept that example considering how weirdly eugenics based half their stuff is. The marilyn monroe mole was a winning example though
" the brad pitt fight club physique" people still dont get that that physique isnt sustainable. Then they body shame people like Jason mamoa and ben Affleck when they're in their off period
you were right on the nose about how straight ppl can take notes from the queer community when it comes to dating. as a bi guy, i found tinder (in the straight direction) to be way easier than my straight friends, i’m just better at presenting and conversing than straight guys are. me and my gf are both queer but in this “straight” relationship (i have a confusing relationship with gender hence the quotes) and we had a way easier time courting each other than when we are pursuing purely straight relationships
I’m non-binary and I’ve been told by most men I’ve dated that they find it easy to talk to me because it feels like they’re talking to a guy 💀 so I do think being queer helps take down some of those barriers, at least for me.
@Emmett DonkeyDoodle similar thing happened to me in the past. My last boyfriend freaked out cause I asked him out instead. Apparently that has never happened to him before.😂
@@Jojob.5176 haha that’s how almost all of my relationships have been. I thought it was common. Apparently it’s not, but it is becoming more common, so that’s nice. Gender norms are bizarre
Okay props to wheat waffles at 1:05:00 conceding a point. In fairness despite how bad some of his points are, at least the guy isn't totally insufferable to debate with. He seems reasonable enough to not interrupt too much and actually hear Vaush out so fair enough.
So one of my "Ron Swanson throws his computer in the dumpster" moments that lead me to deleting reddit was a woman saying she loved her boyfriend that was shorter than her and everyone immediately telling her she is wrong.
This is good content but most incels will never learn or grow out of it. I know cause i used to have very mild incel-ish tendencies in my late teens and i know from my experience in those communities that it takes a very special set of circumstances to make an incel actively undo it all. The older an incel gets the less likely it is that he'll escape, i know it's depressive but it's the honest truth.
@@asherroodcreel640 It is okay but you have to coat that in a tone of pity. You don't want them to think you're engaging with them on an emotional level because they'll see it as a win. Instead you want to engage with their points in an overall sense, so not get ambushed into debating some weird nonsense that doesn't actually matter. Showing them pity is a more consistently effective method of deradicalizing them because it makes them feel small and weak which might make them question everything. I have experience with it myself, not totally in an incel way but right wing way in general cause i used to be on the right before so i'm giving you kind of a cheat code here.
@@penpointred It's as simple as that honestly which makes the situation all the more depressive. 99% of the time incels have very screwed up views on social dynamics between men and women so if their incel mindset is threatened they tend to recoil back even further instead of self-reflecting on the possibility of being entirely wrong because that's "weak and feminine" lol. I've experienced this personally and up close, i know every thought that crosses through their minds.
@@5FT6MAN there are literal lard mountains and tiny people out there who weren’t stopped by it. First things first is *building* (not “finding,” this takes a ton of effort) a circle or friends or acquaintances and improving your relationship with yourself, *long* before bothering with the dumpster fire that can be the game of romance. You will thank yourself for it in the long run. Also, 5’6” ain’t even significantly short tbh. Like what, 2 inches below the target? Nothing a pair of platform shoes or associating with people who aren’t ridiculously shallow won’t solve. Oh, or a *really* snazzy hat. Partially kidding at the end there but, real talk, you’re at least not alone in what you’re feeling.
48:49 This is their entire argument in two seconds. "You'd be handed a wife." That's it. That's all they want, that's all they care about, that's all their position boils down to. Remove all the work and means testing women get to put into choosing their own partners and mandate one woman per man on an objectively judged scale of "dating merit". They're just lazy, prideful, and dumb, and don't want to do the work of being a positive influence on a particular woman, being a good man for them, serving her needs as much as they expect her to serve theirs, being equals in other words, and just let them cheat the game and win based on nothing but their own desire being satisfied.
And the worst part is if they were handed a wife based on their value to society they wouldn't want her anyway. It's not that they can't find anyone. It's that they want better than what they are getting and in their fantasy all men are handed a 9+ tradwife. But maybe you can only pull a 3 because you are, in fact, a 3. These guys just need to wait for the sexbots to be invented.
The idea that it's usually the man in the relationship that handles the logistics of vacations or going out is hilarious. Who's packing the bagS? Who's arranging care for the pets and/or kids? Who's planning activities? Who's preparing and/or getting the food for the trip together? It goes on and on. Guys often don't know ab all of this that goes into things bc it's the women handling it. Of course, what do I know? I just took a pause in feeding the cats, cleaning the litter boxes, sweeping, making coffee, making a protein shake, washing and bagging fruit, cooking breakfast, and washing dishes before my husband leaves for work to leave a comment, and I adore my husband. I can only imagine not having a loving partner who took everything you did for granted and constantly played the victim. Yeesh 😣
There is some research that indicates that people overvalue their own efforts. Both positive and negative btw. If you add up how much people self report do you get about 130% of the total. I'm not saying you don't do chores at all or even less, all I'm saying is that your husband probably thinks he does more than you think he does. This is also true for negative stuff btw. If you add up how often people think they break stuff in the house you also get 130%, or how often people forget stuff. I'm definitely not saying you don't do more, but in general at least from my experience (which is obviously biased as well, but this is mostly about couples that don't include me, so that has a lot less bias) in general it's relatively 50-50, so I wouldn't be surprised if both think they do more than the other person. When it comes to house chores you still see this over self reporting but even then women indeed come out quite clearly on top (I believe averages are like a 90%-40% split in self reporting), although that is quite quickly changing. At least in the Netherlands the chores seem to be a lot more equal with younger couples. I know a lot of couples where the person who does the chores is just the person that happens to be home from work first. I just definitely know that I for sure am the one that organises the activities. If it is a group vacation I still am the one that looks up what is the stuff you can do where we are going and reserve the restaurant, stuff like that. And I'm a guy. I know my father always takes weeks every night turning all the photos taken into a photo album. But this kind of stuff is always difficult since there is fairly little actual research on this stuff, so all the evidence is incredibly anecdotal at best.
This dude came into this conversation automatically believing he was right and knew that no matter what evidence was presented to him, he was just going to deny it.
well he has a platform,. if he changed his mind, he'd lose it. That is probably the biggest issue with people who have a platform based on a centeral ideology, you can never get them to admit they are wrong or change, because then they lose everything they have.
i remember, way before i transitioned but was still somewhat openly queer, i was out with some out-of-town friends at a mall and a girl came up to me to tell me she thought i was really cute. she seemed a little less-than-confident but it made me smile and feel good about myself, up until one of the lads (who i assume was straight) told me not to think much of the compliment because of the type of girl she seemed to be (unconfident, less than attractive, kind of alternative, etc), which i thought was extremely unfair because not only did it end up making me feel not great about myself, but it also devalued what the girl was saying/thought and that she had the courage to tell someone she was attracted to that they were attractive. needless to say, you are entirely and wholly right about how straight dating needs to be more queer. once everyone gets these arbitrary notions of expectations in dating based on gender and just aims to make themselves and someone else happy, the better it will be for everyone including these black pill types.
Fascinating debate! The comments in the Q&A about women complimenting eachother are interesting, because I feel like (as a girl) those kinds of "oh, I'm so fat" conversations between friends always seem to result in everyone ELSE going "oh god, me too-- AND my nose is too big" instead of any sort of actual body positive compliments. I think that experience kind of set me up to always look for faults in my appearance. Maybe things are different in this day and age? I sure hope so.
Maybe it's just me because even though I'm ace, I find bigger women the most beautiful. Therefore I and my friend groups tend to gas up anyone who says they're fat. Also in my opinion it's kinda rude to equate fatness with ugliness, aka that whole "I'm so fat" "no ur not ur beautiful! " Like not only condescending but also not mutually exclusive. I've heard that phrase in female friend groups and I'm not a huge fan of it
I will give this guy one thing; he's quite good at pulling reactionary arguments fresh out of his ass. Sure, they don't bear any resemblance to reality but they will convince some who may be down on their luck, etc.
For every argument he gives, he literally provides statistics to back up his arguments. In his videos, he usually even gives the source of these studies and statistics. It's not his fault that the results of the studies are not in line with your world view
@@thoughts8182 Dude did you watch the debate? Statistics were incredibly against him and he's spewing utter nonsense, stop being on this stubborn train, you'll literally just hurting yourself.
@@nicolasmesa8929 I'm not onboard any train. I'm not completely biased towards either parties arguments. They've both stated some truths. For example, the blackpiller states that looks have become extremely important when it comes to dating. This is true, especially amongst generation Zs. And it is largely in part due to social media and the insane standards that it pushes. Vaush also touches on how if these incels learned conversational skills and developed a personality they would do much better with women, I also beleive this is true too. But I also understand that it's not easy to develop these skills when you been ostracized because of your looks. So honestly, both sides have provided good arguments. I am not so mentally stonewalled to alternative opinions just because the media tells me "Incel bad"
@@thoughts8182 Oh poor you, you got it all wrong, Vaush states that looks aren't as important as the blackpill Incel states they are, yes, but is not only about "learning conversational skills" it's more about being less of an INCREDIBLY misogynistic Incel piece of garbage human being, which the Incel didn't even realize thorough the combo and neither did you apparently. Also, for the record"All women are X" is just a rephrase of "All the women I specifically like, are X" just lower that inflated standard you have and the disgusting Incel mysoginy, listen to women instead of this "evolution" "tactics" shit and treat them like human being just like you and you'll be fine.
This guy Vaush is debating is a master class at demonstrating what anxiety and projection is and how it completely constructed his social Darwinian worldview. He wants to look at a study (and only ones he agrees with) and strip it of all context and somehow apply it to all of society. Vaush is 1000000% correct about the queer community. The communication and emotional understanding in these spaces is encouraged, whereas it's essential nonexistent in straight communities, often times aggressively discouraged in more conservative regions. He straight made up bullshit conclusions.
@@demodiums7216 your response makes no sense. The comment you replied to stated how queer folk tend to be more emotionally intelligent, not rush into things.
@@demodiums7216 That's part of it but what's truly underappreciated is the effect AIDS had on the queer community. Queer spaces are simply infinitely better talking about safe sex practices, relationship intentions, and comfortable broaching uncomfortable personal subjects, because they HAD to to survive.
@@Bonaboo and im saying that that has nothing to do with it. Also....what evidence is there that they are more emotionally intelligent? Seems like a pretty subjective/baseless claim
Also I'm pretty sure he can't get some because he does not, and refuses to understand us. Like, if you're after women, maybe... You know, speak to women? Get to know our experiences? Why does he assume he understands how straight women work?! He's not straight nor a woman! I'm at least a woman, but even I don't proclaim to understand straight women (when it comes to their attraction to men, that is)
Good convo. Maybe I’m from a different era at age 46, but I dated a lot of women, I’m happily married now with kids, and i have a lot of physical flaws. I tend to agree with Vaush that a good personality can go a long way. Especially if you genuinely care about your friends, family, colleagues, etc.
I'm half an hour in, and this guy can be summed up with: "I have my belief system, and everything that critiques, threatens, undermines or contradicts it, is never enough to adapt or do away with my belief system."
@elrey1176I don't think so because just like a radical leftist or right wing extremist, a black pill incel has the very bottom base of his beliefs rooted in tangible data and facts that he then extrapolates from into his chosen narrative A guy not having a 10/10 women knock on his door 24/7 for being the genetic peak isn't the same as "you'll forever be doomed to being alone due to biological determinism" There are many things you can do to get laid and many women open but much of incels only hypocritically hyper focus on women outside their league lmao
The very fact that this person puts forth an "SMV" as if sex and relationships are predominantly transactional rather than mutual private experiences tells you everything you need to know about this person's worldview
Relationships are transactional on some level. Nobody enters a good relationship unless they think they can get something into it and give something into it
It's just an approximate model to explain what's happening. SMV is a valid concept. You could ask a panel of 100 people to rate 10 people in order of attractiveness and the results would have a very strong correlation.
A lot of relationships have an underlying level of being transactional due to the nature of us being material creatures that require material to stay in existence for any significant length of time. Any relationship that only benefits one party at the expense of the other will not last long should the exploited party find a way to get out of it. Balanced relationships tend to provide benefits to both parties by allowing for both parties to potentially spend less on securing shelter and free up time via division of tasks and labor as cooking twice the amount of food while takes more time than only one serving isn’t double the time to complete. Even cleaning is faster because you are going to vacuum the same square footage of carpet whether 1 person walks on it or 2
Talking to "blackpilled" people is so frustrating because it really does seem like the core problem is that they dont talk to women, which leads them to not really view them as people.
@@geraldtherat618 theyve got their parents' genetics and their grandparents', and their great-grandparents' and so on, and ALL of those people have clearly had sex and probably a relationship at some point so odds are, it's not thier genetics
I'm passingly familiar with the lesbian bed death statistic and what I remember is that it was incredibly misleading as they defined sex as strictly penetrative sex so all other forms of lesbian sex just didn't count at all.
i figure lesbians have less sex as in less “times per week” but when we do it takes way longer haha so if you actually counted the overall time it will be much higher
Your analogy just isn’t right. First of all music is art and therefore subjective. Attractiveness, especially when it comes to what women perceive as attractive, is more objective than you might think. Why are male virginity rising so high and why do the top percentile of men on tinder hoard the majority of matches? Because conventionally good looking men are seen as healthier and fitter mates to carry women’s offspring. Why do many male celebrities possess very similar facial characteristics? Because those features are considered universally attractive. Yes there may be some deviation here and there between what women see as their type but on the whole these men will possess very similar features. Why do the likes of Henry Cavill and Ian Somerhalder, for instance, receive so much fandom from so many women if attraction were to be subjective?
Well, you kind of made his point for him there. Sure, there are other kinds of music out there, but the vast majority of people like, or at least have listened to, pop music. It might not be their favorite kind of music, but not many people straight up hate it. It´s even in the name ffs. Attractiveness is the same way. Some traits are considered attractive to niche subgroups (like moustaches or specific piercings) while others (like being lean, tanned and well-groomed) are considered attractive almost universally. People who pretend this doesn´t exist just sound silly, especially women.
@@jirkazalabak1514 Most pop music is forgotten as fast as it shoots to popularity. Nobody remembers it 10 years later. Nobody is affected by it. It changes nobody's life. You really want to be a dime-a-dozen blip in the radar of someone's life?
He has hookup culture and dating confused. Women only want to hook up with guys that are more physically attractive. When it comes to actual pairing up, looks are not particularly important to women.
@@vanadyan1674 That's true of anyone! It's not unique to heterosexual women. No matter your gender, or the gender of your preferred partner, everyone goes primarily for looks when it's just a hookup and not something you're expecting to turn into a longer relationship.
FR FR! All he'd need to do is ask himself whether the majority of older heterosexual men that he knows are married, or at least have been at one time, and that right there will disprove the whole 1% idea! He needs to get away from PUA culture.
Literally only 20 mins in and I feel so bad for this guy. He's convinced himself that women all want these like lean, muscular men with all these top genetic features and that's all. He can't even fathom the women are nowhere near as fussed about appearances as he makes them out to be, probably because recognising that means that it's not the looks that are the reason these men aren't getting laid.
Oh boy, you said the opposite of what these dummies think women want! I hope you're prepared to see the men telling you that you are completely wrong... for some reason
Not all women need those looks, but generally speaking if you had one man tall and lean and the same guy but short and fat, almost no one is more attracted to the latter if they are being honest. Short fat guy can still get laid but they aren't getting the same attraction that say a tall or plus sized woman is getting.
@@elderscrollsmoddingtech7252 Yeah we have conventionally attractive people in society, and not everyone is equally attractive. That's nothing new lol. I will say though that how you act and carry yourself matters a lot This dude's making out that looks are everything, and that if you don't have them you're basically fucked, and that isn't the case. Most of the time these incel/black-pill types just have unattractive personalities. They wallow in self-pity and anger over issues they've either made up or blown way out of proportion.
If the handsome tall guy is self obsessed, arrogant and shallow and the other guy is chill, kind and good to chat to, looks very quickly become irrelevant. Also different people have different energy and connect with others in unique ways. At the end of the day being human and real is what counts.
This is just staying down after getting knocked down. One or two experiences does not define reality. Keep pushing everyone, in everything you do, never give up 👍🏼
me as a person, i not into relationships. never have been, i even had to let down guys and girls saying i rather be freinds. honest what i found that people are interested in is not really looks but personally and having confidence around other, being open but not too open is what i think is key to scoring deep relationships. i have always been a best friend. never a boyfriend. so maybe this wont work for others. but i personally think people just need to be a person who is a friend.
Hell yeah dude, I'm aro-ase (aromantic -asexual) and I've noticed that with people I'm around communication and knowing and caring about each other's wellbeing are all important to healthy and long lasting relationships Like your SO should be your best friend in the world because you aren't just fuckbuddies and you are important to each other so it can last
Demisexual here, I agree. I think ironically, when I decided I wasn't going to go looking for a relationship and when I became less concerned with being perceived as attractive, THATS when I started to get attention. Even on days with no makeup, and no effort for hair and clothes. I dressed for comfort and fun, which made me more confident and approachable. My interactions were more genuine because I wasn't caught up in being something to that person just being present. I think people catch onto that.
"No, it's not true" - translation: that reality conflicts with my initial assertions. Waffle is trying to bend reality to fit his opinion instead of adapting his opinions to match reality
This man didn’t understand the difference between a concern and a regret. I’m supposed to take him seriously. He should have been laughed out of the call.
Vaush, can I just say that I’ve been a fan of you for long and I watch your videos consistently. I have noticed a lot of language like “bitches”, “women are idiots, etc. lately, which I still read as ironic quite confidentely, but I do think you should be mindful of the type of language you use. I don’t always feel as included in this community when that sort of language is used so often. I don’t know if anyone else feels this way… anyway, would love if you could address this. Otherwise, keep doing god’s work. ❤
Maybe Wheat Waffles wouldn't be so blackpilled if he learned to loosen up and have a laugh like Vaush does. Haven't heard this guy crack one joke that didn't sound like he was crying inside yet, and even then those were few and far between.
Yes definitely there are more healthy ways of getting into self improvement but this is the most brutal and fastest way to get your mind in gear on how you can improve your situation but in the meantime you sacrifice the worldview you previously had.
1:11:22. Thank you VERY much for the gym advice, Vaush. I have been starting to slack a bit on working out my legs which ends up also missing out on my butt so you have inspired me even more so to get back to it.
"Women don't find feminine men attractive." -Yaoi has entered the chatroom, everybody stand up and salute, "Ave Caesar!" P.S: There's no such thing as *the dating market*, its just an expression.
• Yaoi is jacked and has a 10/10 jawline and facial structure. The feminine stuff is bluepilltalk. If you are good looking you can be as mean or good as you want, women are gonna date you anyways. • Tinder, Bumble, every other dating app, ever, functions like a market. "Going on a date" with someone is literally a job interview for being a boyfriend. Dating is a market and your looks are your value proposition.
Not just yaoi anymore either. Look at all the pop stars that have been playing with gender norms. Harry styles is a good example, he pissed a lot of people off with that dress photo but the girls and women ate it up haha.
For any men out their who are struggling with relationships. Don't over complicate things. If you enjoy the company of women (being friends, having a laugh) you will end up in a sexual relationship. I can't tell you how many men I've been attracted to based on having a wonderfully interesting conversation, knowing the man is genuinely interested in what I have to say. Really talking is intimate, it does not take much to tip the balance. Join clubs, go out in groups, take the pressure off. If you buy this black pill stuff you will end up lonely because it is pure misogynistic bs. Ask yourself what woman would want to sleep with a guy who hates women? For a start it would be very risky physically.
Being genuine interested in the woman you spend time with, is the secret I use all the time. It's uncanning how well it works. And having a good sense of humor...
@@amirpride Dude, sorry. I have read enought of your comments here, to know were you stand. If you **honestly** don't understand why the incel/blackpill comunity at large is misgyonistic, that would mean that you are so deep into it, that I have not the abillity to reach you. But that would mean, I believe you are honest here. Which I don't. Try your spiel at someone else.
This guy is totally showing his age. Literally every woman in a het relationship is upset that the man never cleans, cooks, and just sits around while she also works full time and cleans everything. Who gives a fuck about “planning trips”?
So I’m a recovering alcoholic…so going to a bar is a hard no for me. But as a result…due to current cultural modus operandi, I’m effectively disqualified from my dating pool. All dating (at least in my region of the USA) revolves around alcohol or activities based on alcohol consumption. My health and self-care is more important to me than a vapid courting exchange.
First of all, I hope all is going well in your recovery process. Second, as someone who just doesn't like drinking, it's bizarre how much of adult socializing is tied to alcohol not even just dating. There's also this odd idea of it being intrinsically tied to fun, like you can't have fun or must not be fun if you don't want to drink. Which encourages people to peer pressure to get them to "have some fun"
@@insirable3127 believe it or not Yes. He can pull ‘some women’. Get out of your incel cage and you’ll see that to be true. Personality definitely plays a bigger part for women than looks. But keep believing your pseudoscience to make you cope instead of empirical reality. But hey…maybe it is once an incel always an incel.
@@insirable3127Uh, maybe don’t go for women way out of your league and don’t be a miserable ass and maybe you’ll find a girl interested in you. The problem with incels is that many of them desire model tier women and are angry that those women don’t like them back.
@@insirable3127 I always see this racial caricature but how much of the population do these people make? maybe 1%. And the Indian Janitor probably has had a wife for lot longer than you did lol.
In defense of obese people not wanting to date other obese people: personally if I'm struggling with something, it's easier when my partner isn't struggling with the same issue
@@joshuaortiz2031 I'm not obese but that's because half the time I forget to eat because I'm almost never hungry. I'm lean, but do I take care of my body ? I'll let you decide. I ate one meal today (dinner).
Listening to this black pill guy talk I have flashbacks to when I was depressed, you keep saying and doing shit that is counterproductive to your well being because your brain tricks you into believing they are. Mad respect for Vaush to stand up for him though, some of those "questions" were really mean and it's clear that this guy isn't well, he just conditioned himself to pretend he is and it shows. "Life is a bitch and then you die" is a quote that can very well summarize how this guy views the world around him and it's sad, I hope he gets better.
The problem with these people is that they try to logic their way into relationships. Here's the thing though, humans are not rational, love is fundamentally sentimental. Atraction in humans is not straightforward at all, and its an entirely different thought process for every single person on earth.
You can tell this guy has really poor emotional intelligence and desperately wants to apply some sort of framework to understand women and relationships.
@@ahadkhan3486 Both can be true. There is an underlying logic to most of our gut reactions, hence why first impressions are important. However, people are able to consciously override their initial thoughts when they turn out not to be true/useful/relevant to a situation. And through constant small "course corrections" you can de-program and re-program your thought patterns to an extent based on past experiences and societal expectations. Brains are malleable. That's why the process of attraction is different for every person.
@@ahadkhan3486 peoples preferences are different and flexible based on their mood, life stage, past experience, etc. Why try to figure out an underlying logic that is different for every person and prone to almost spontaneous change? Seems like a waste of time to me, people should focus on only the women they're meeting not the entire demographic
@@thesahel7218 the women their meeting and the general prefrence will be the same for their underlying attraction.This is the fundemental difference between bluepill and BP. Women are not like men, men have a general attraction towards women that is sexual in nature. Women have a s SPECIFIED attraction to a certain type of man (Tall, good jaw, lean, etc). Its important to acknowladge this reality, as pretending that women like "different" types of men is harmful especially for young men to hear.
If this debate was any reflection of Wheat’s conversational skills when on a date or otherwise, let’s just say I’m not surprised he’s blackpilled... or that he seems utterly perplexed by the suggestion that a woman might like a man for more than his looks outside of “niche circumstances”. Maybe he was just nervous, but he seems like a really stiff and unengaging interlocutor here- like 90% of the Q and A segment was just _no comment_ from him, and/or Vaush answering for him, lol. Like most people from the blackpill community, he makes these very vague Darwinistic prescriptions about social dynamics he demonstrably doesn’t understand with remarkable confidence. Touch. Grass.
He’s mostly just making other men into failures. I bet he’s not even totally an incel irl. He just spreads the self-defeating mythology to his followers
I’ve got a challenge for you, next time you go, don’t include anyone over the age of 25 in your observations. Millennials are somewhat less affected by the impact that technology has had on the younger generations in terms of dating
@@just9911 Fandom communities in general do that a lot. I was very bewildered when I realized how many other guys were right there with me in fanfic writing spaces just rolling with being assumed as women and girls instead of correcting anyone to keep being able to just... chill and squabble and create without any "real men" BS popping up.
On the topic of male/male friendships I don't get the bad rep it often gets. Half my friends are men and the other half are women and yes, my female friends do tend to give out more complimenta but my male friends have been amazing in regards to emotional support as much as my female friends. When dealing with depression years ago. I have broke down in tears in front of 3 men and none have ever mocked me for it or shamed me. I've got nothing but support, understanding and a lending ear by men (and women). And despite all the compliments my female friends tell me which i appreciate. My best friend (who is a man) has gave me positive meaningful words that really stayed with me. I remember two sentences he has said to me that prevented me from going to a dark depressing place. To the point where my own therapist told me she believes my best friend has been a massive help with my mental health Maybe I'm just lucky that nearly ever man I develop a friendship with are the "rare" ones. 🤷 but my male friends are just as awesome as my female friends. So I don't get it when people make out that male on male friendships are toxic and lack any emotional depth. Not in my experience at least 🤷
It's always really telling when someone _definitely_ has an idea about what _every_ man or woman wants in a partner, and any deviation from that thought is an, "Outlier" or "Niche". I've seen enough of my friends going for exactly what this guy says are things that people wouldn't go for. It's always so weird.
It's almost like he's convinced himself that the combination of "opinions" and "frustration" results in a statement of universal truth rather than just...the opinions of a person who doesn't know how to deal with frustration.
If a model was into me, I would be deeply uncomfortable because I would think they look too much better than me. If I liked her personality enough, I would date her, but the difference in looks is definitely a wall I'd have to get over at first.
Yeah he was wrong about that one. They both made some good points. It's tough to determine who's correct because there's just so many variables and it's difficult to draw conclusions even from the data that exists.
this wasn't a super good debate on vaush's part and i do disagree with a lot of what vaush says here but he's still more correct than the blackpill dude so
Women care very much. Not only about physical attractiveness but also about other qualities, but without physical attraction a woman will not want a man. Why would she want to if she's not attracted to him?
@@esmeralda6111 Ask the hundreds of gaslighters, including Vaush himself, who claim that women happily and willingly sleep with unattractive, poor, low-status men all the time🤦♂They have all been brainwashed by Disney movies and think IRL: Personality > Looks
@@EltipoquevisteayerModels are exactly that real life human dolls that you dress up, put make up on and take photos of. They are real people but vast majority of them aren't really smart or enticing lol. They only have their looks to hold them in life and huge amount are depressed because they are viewed as dress up dolls.
It might seem strange, but this guy actually did look into all the stuff he said he was going to look into, and now he's not blackpilled anymore! He just needed to get the facts!
@@thek2despot426 aw I'm sorry guys. It was a dark joke about the depressing fact he accepted new information with honest curiosity but reflexively twisted it to suit his bleak narrative. should've written it better
@@michaelnewman7248 no that was a perfect piece of satire. Unfortunately, not everyone is always going to get the joke so don't worry about it keep doing what ur doing
obsessed with how vaush will point to a study or an example of what he’s talking about and this guy will go “uhm. no” and refuse to elaborate. an incredibly frustrating convo lmao
This guy is going purely off vibes, that’s why lol
These guys...like...it's exhausting. The average height is 5'9" and the average male 40 year old is a non-virgin. See also: the average BMI. it's like they refuse to account for the idea of individual taste or familiarity creating attraction or personality matches or anything at all except "evolution" that they honestly barely understand.
Well Vaush is bad faith.
Cause he's badass
The essence of the incel philosophy is a fear and dislike of women, and a complex system of copes and levers to continually justify their distance from women.
It was never about evidence.
“Too much sex actually makes women depressed.” Did Ben Shapiro’s wife tell you that?
His sister😂
@@DystopianUtopia8 Ew dog, ew.
Could be the same thing!
Oh my god! I probably put some women into a depression!
If I just had known this, I would have said no... how can I live with this???
ben shapiro: conservatism's nightcore.
"I'm not nihilistic, I'm not like the other incels" and "you cant change our fucked dating system for the better, it's impossible, it can't be done" are both positions stated by this man, incredible
He contradicts himself CONSTANTLY
@@Vincepenalty incels in a nutshell...
He's purely going off vibes, so when he says he's not a nihilist, he's saying he doesn't _feel_ like a nihilist, even though he is. He doesn't know what these words means, and he hasn't thought about anything beyond a surface level
@@GloomdrakeIdeally nihilism isn’t a feeling but a philosophy. Of course it can be a feeling and it can come in the form of depression, disorder, ect but nihilism is a philosophy so he is being a nihilist albeit a very ignorant or uneducated nihilist but still a nihilist.
Today I had pretty much this same conversation with a guy, but about the actual economy, not the "sexual market" incels talk about. "There's corruption in our current system but that's the way it HAS to be because it can't be fixed. It's a feature, not a bug. The only thing you can do is claw your way to the top and piss on everyone below you!"
This whole conversation casually skips over the biological fact that all guys secretly just wanna be a dinosaur.
Can confirm
I mean… you ain’t wrong…
True.
Hey, don't misrepresent all men like that!
-NINJA- Dinosaur
The whole reason I listened and it just wasn't brought up. Glad someone else noticed...
"I want more women to sleep with me!"
"...so you want more women to have casual sex...?"
"No."
A lot of incels don't want sex specifically. They want intimacy.
They want this one person who they can fully trust, who has not had other people, who chooses them and who they choose.
They don't WANT to be "slutty"
@@PsychoCalamander Well they're gonna have a hard time if they treat a girl like some final boss of a video game that they can only unlock with certain appearance raitings and shit.
@@PsychoCalamanderand meanwhile if the guy has had multiple gfs he's celebrated for having rizz, bro that aint a good trait to expect
@@vapingfury4460 yes, because it's so ridiculously hard.
Why shouldn't a person be praised for being confident, hard working, putting all the effort into something that is so hard to achieve?
@@PsychoCalamander Just a silly standard who gives af if they've been with someone unless you have like some kind virginity fetish thing or something. You're concern should be their character or if you can hook up
i always find it so strange when these people are so interested in sexual dynamics and dating and then have no fucking clue how non straight relationships work
Because they aren't interested in sexual dynamics and dating. They're just interested in crying because a gorgeous model hasn't kicked in their door and demaned the priviledge of orally pleasuring them.
how is that strange though? If they're straight they probably don't care how dating is for gay people because it will never apply to them
Most incels/MRAs/Redpills are homophobes who don't take non-straight relationships seriously. They think lesbians are mentally ill and men go gay so they don't have to deal with women. And they're transmedicalists/truscum at best if not outright transphobic.
Because non straight relationships aren’t supposed to be atomic
Fr, they act like queer people are aliens
Insane that people like this exist. Dude starts out the dialog saying Vaush is misunderstood in thinking the Blackpill community is full of nihilism and doomerism and essentially just given up, then spends the entirety of the debate shooting down any suggestions to better the community and proceeds to be nihilistic and doomer about relationships and sex. No thoughts just vibes
They don't know what words mean beyond knowing what they think are bad words and good. It's literally that deep, you literally need to be anti intellectual to be pulled into this kinda pipeline
BP is not doomer and nihilistic. It is about certain stuff in dating. BP is about 3/10 guy can't get 5/10 girls with all the game and charisma in the world or that 5/10 guy has to do a list of things to a partner of the same level. Also, it implies to not have strings too attached to each women you are dating, because she can swap you for a next guy in a line out of the blue. These are just the examples. Overall, BP is saying the dating world is a tough game with no place for ugly, short, unattractive men and one have to work hard to get any results.
@@nurtaytulegenov7431
"BP is not doomer"
"BP is saying the dating world is a tough game"
I don't even disagree with the Blackpill community on those notions; yes I agree that the dating world is a tough game. But similar social obstacles for men also exist for women. 3/10 women struggle to get with 5/10 men. Women are also afraid of being swapped for the next girl in line out of the blue, and possibly more so, since men are more likely to cheat than women, mostly because men are hornier than women.
The only difference is that men are more incentivized to enter the dating scene due to biologically having far stronger sexual impulses, so their motivated presence in the dating scene leads to men facing more rejection than women overall, which leads to the Blackpill community being mostly male dominated. Just like women won't lower their standards for unattractive men, men won't lower their standards for unattractive women, but women are more likely to be content with being single due to their comparative lack of sexual urge.
But instead of realizing that men are hornier than women on average, the Blackpill community derives some rather disturbingly misogynistic conclusions instead.
@@youtubeviolatedme7123 imho, blackpill shouldn't be that popular. It may be short term useful for some average looking guy, who doesn't groom himself nor exercise, but I bet his friends and girlfriends will tell him that before. BP for a longterm is for ugly dwarves such as myself, who don't get passed this first threshold. For this category BP is doom and gloom, but it's such a small minority that won't be as prominent on the internet.
About sex drive, I don't think female got that much lower drive than man. Women get lots of their emotional needs closed with friends, which for guys is considered "gay", like hugs or laying on top of each other. So men pushed not only by sex drive, but other deprivations. This kind of problem more cultural and may be fixed, but not in this generation
@@nurtaytulegenov7431 Learn science-based meditation to fight stress, produce happiness and produce efforts to achieve your goals. It will also help you not be nervous to talk to anyone as you become a fearless person. Exercise, eat healthy to live longer and choose your romantic partner based on personality and not looks or sexual desperation. Do not be tempted by addictions such as greed, being the most dangerous one because you will be in denial of your sadness and your ego will tell you to hide it. Remember knowledge is power and ignorance is not bliss. Hope this help you and have a nice day.
Being a woman watching these kinds of debates is wild. Vaush will practically say what I’m thinking verbatim and the incel guy will be like “no!! Women don’t think that!!! >:(“
you arent honest. While observing socity it becomes clear that the waffles is correct
Also, go learn what an "incel" is. Calling anyone who disagrees with you an "incel" just makes you look stupid
Yeah see, you just don't want to admit what you really feel. These incels know women better than they know themselves, which is why they're so successful with them.
I get it too! The incle guy just hurts my brain at some points. It just doesn't make sense
@SaintKines do you not see the contradiction in saying that incels have success with women?? The entire basis of their identity is not having success with women, "involuntarily celibate," it's in the name my dude
@@bsmith7 this is my fault but I was being sarcastic
"Women don't find feminine men attractive" is the most hilarious out of touch take i think I've heard, Just wait till this man discovers the fucking onceler fandom.
@@YokaiX theres a difference between "pretty-boy" and feminine. Like pretty boy chads just have pretty faces whislt STILL having all the generic things women want (hight, jawline, wide shoulders, etc). "Feminine" on the otherhand implies shortness, wide hips, things that are all unattractive to straight women on a visceral level (on men)
It's ØvER for Muh-sculinityÇels
Any tumblr sexy man tbh. Girls on Tumblr wanted to fuck bill cipher. Plus in non weird normie land- pretty boys have been a thing from young Justin Bieber to twilight to timothee chalamet (idk how to spell). There are studies saying it's very common for women to be attracted to feminine guys.
That is mostly correct though, most Women do not find feminine men attractive. I say most because yes some Women like feminine Men but the Majority do not.
@@locomotivesteam9334 then they shouldn't say women as a whole
I hate how these whatever-pill types primarily refer to people by their attractiveness rating. It’s so dehumanizing! Maybe this is a me thing, but I have never in my life thought of the attractiveness of people I was into or in relationships with on a 1-10 scale. I’ve been able to personally determine if I find someone hot or not, but it was never with some weird grading scale. I just find some people attractive, and when looking for a partner, I find them attractive based in part on their looks and in part on their personality. I just don’t understand the mindset of these dudes
I do, but thats cuz I have a hard time not seeing people as literal slabs of meat sense the food network was the only way I could bond with my dad
Same thoughts
i think its possible to compare people in terms of physical attractiveness and thus rank them, but putting a number on it is weird & silly, because its very subjective and vague
No see you don't get it, they're not ranking how much they like those people because the men who do this shit are terminally disconnected from their own feelings. Emotionally, they're toddlers and are completely incapable of introspection.
What they're "ranking" is how much status they think sleeping with a certain woman will give them with other men.
true, this may just be my aroace leaking, but i can still find people attractive and it's never just a number, it's a "oh they have a cute nose" "they have a friendly smile" or other such anecdotal stuff, i rarely look at people and go "ugly" or "7/10"
This was so funny.
"Women only want men with abs"
"Most women will thirst over a guy with broad shoulders and a bit of a belly."
"NO! NO! THAT'S NOT TRUE!"
🤣
yeah, a bit of belly is way different from obese.
@@redfruit1993z literally nobody said anything about obese. are you projecting or something?
It’s not true though do Tinder experiments most women don’t want an overweight guy. If you’re talking a bear mode guy with decent amount of muscle that’s different. There’s a guy called men’s maxxing who made a perfect video explaining what most women want through his own experience having gone through each stage. Basically 80% of women like a guy who’s lean and looks like he’s an intermediate lifter. Then another group like that same guy except on the heavier side aka bear mode. Then girls who are fit and workout themselves tend to prefer the extra jacked guys. At the very least from my experiments I can confirm extra jacked guys get way more likes all else equal, it can literally be a 5x multiplier. Which is weird because most women will say they don’t like muscle, makes me wonder if it’s just a bunch of girls who are into this type of guy all drawing attention but it’s a little too high for that considering there’s only so many female profiles within a 50-100 mile radius
@@nomorepikachu how is your beer!?
@@KurokamiNajimi dude, Tinder is not real life. Even what the blackpill dude said about attractive guys cleaning up shop on dating apps and night clubs is shotty if you ask me considering I struggle to get matches on dating apps but there have been very few times I've gone to a night club and not been approached by at least one attractive woman while I was there. Using Tinder statistics as the benchmark is not reliable especially when, based on what I've been told by girl friends, most women don't even bother using Tinder.
He is seriously saying eating disorders have nothing to do with beauty standards for women and it’s all just “being too emotional.” I’m done. There was a picture of a “chubby” girl from a movie in 2002 that was going around recently and she was literally a thin woman. No wonder we felt insecure and often starved ourselves! Vaush is 100% correct here and the other dude is delusional.
He kept harping on body positivity which is a *recent* thing. And a lot of people still laugh at that stuff. (Mainly men.) Vaush is correct that women started the movement for body positivity because women were the ones who needed it most.
Men don't suppoert the body positivity movement because they aren't affected the same way women are, but I would say a lot of men do suffer from body dysmorphia in the sense that they have to get bigger in terms of muscles.
@@JuliAuditorea lot of these gym bros straight up qualify for eating disorders
@@itsbeebaby Yes but it's from a completely different angle
Sure, the black pill has its share of exaggerated claims and sweeping generalizations that might not hold water, but I think there's a nugget of truth in there somewhere. The thing is, the black pill idea isn't just a one-size-fits-all answer. It's like trying to fit a complex puzzle piece into a simple frame. Some folks might find comfort in quickly accepting certain aspects of dating reality, rather than trying to change things they may or may not be able to change about themselves, which I don't necessarily think is correct either. But idk I just wish people would be more empathetic to those who genuinely struggle and find solace in the community overall...
Men have have a worse beauty/self-image crisis than women, even though the latter gets most of the attention/pity. It's because of steroids and other drugs, generations of males now want to look like superheroes, and to do so one has to take steroids like the actors who play them do.
I’ll admit, as a man I have been discouraged in the past by my lack of matches with women on dating apps. I wondered if there was something inherently unattractive about me. That feeling soon went away once I allowed men to see my profile (I’m bi) and the likes came flooding in. I do think the reason straight men don’t get many matches is because the vast majority of dating app users are other men.
Its os true tho 80% of dating apps are men
That's probably the case. I remember there being some dating app stat about male users making up the majority of the userbase
According to a statistic I pulled out from the internet Tinder has around 75 million users which 78.1% of them are men while 21.9% of them are women so unless they are into polygamy 3/4 men won't be able to find a women due to math
I recently started trying out dating apps and have the exact same experience, except for the "being bi" thing. The gender ratio is insane, and is made even worse by half the women (or more) just writing their IG account in their bio and never engaging with the app again. It´s basically something like 10 guys for every one woman who actually goes on the app sometimes. Also, almost all the dating apps are becoming more and more greedy these days. They will go as far as to actively suppress your profile in the algorithm unless you pay them money.
I never had any incel-type feelings despite being unsuccessful with women my whole life (it´s not their fault they are not interested, why the hell would people blame them for that?), but after going on dating apps and trying my luck there, I definitely see where those feelings might be coming from. It´s an absolutely soul-crushing experience to put yourself out there in the best possible light and get zero engagement. As a man, unless you are willing to spend hours upon hours doing photoshoots and weeks/months swiping, you might as well try the local park instead. The chances of meeting women are about the same, and at least you will get some fresh air and excercise.
@@jirkazalabak1514 Yeah that’s the thing as well, in my experience guys will also put way more effort into their dating app profiles than girls, girls will usually just put their social media usernames and nothing else whereas guys will typically put SOMETHING there that indicates who they are as a person. I do wonder why that is. It’s interesting.
Bro is saying that women are anorexic because they're emotional, by that logic men, who take up a higher percentage in suicide rates, are hella emotional and dramatic then? It's like he can't comprehend what other existing reasons there are for these issues.
Feminists typically claim women have just as high rates of suicide but "men choose more lethal methods so they are more successful".
Also, don't you think it massively depends WHY you become emotional?
Whether it's because you didn't get enough likes on Instagram or whether it's because you can't see your kid after divorce?
Exactly! Gawd.
The moment this guy used the term SMV unironically i did the same face as Vaush lmao. What patience Vaush has to not get hung up on it.
It's hilarious that these types of people always have to dabble with pseudoscience. They're desperate.
What is that, sexual marketplace value?
honestly i wouldent have been able to to get past that, id be drilling him on that untill he hung up
Well the sexual marketplace is a real thing though. Of course the way incels use it is bad but it does exist
@@ericosagie3046 as an abstract concept sure, but they think they can objectively determine someone’s value in the marketplace as if it’s an objective figure. In reality it’s more like a flea market
These guys are frustrating because there’s a kernel of truth to what they saying regarding male body positivity, but they cover that point in so much bullshit that it severely dilutes what the message should be: that both men AND women should be allowed to live without being shamed for factors beyond their control.
For example, height is a big insecurity among many in the incel community (and guys in general) and in that regard I do sympathize. It is very disheartening for short men, particularly in the West. It feels like that is the last bastion where men can be ridiculed with no constraint and it’s considered socially acceptable, along with being bald and dick shaming. I think we should be acknowledging this insecurity and addressing the fact that, socially, we lionize height in men to the capacity that men who do not fit that average are inherently seen as lesser.
True. People should be able to live their life like normal, even if they dont fit "attraction standards". Having bitches/bastards fawning over you like hell isnt necassery for living a great life. Go do something else, improve yourself before expecting affection. And even if it takes you time, yes, there probably is somebody out there who would want romantic and/or sexual relations with you. It may just take some time before you meet them if you dont fit the societal default.
Imagine developing a personality instead of obsessing over jawlines and muscles. These people don't want a partner, they want to hook up with a model for a one night stand and that she will then tell them that she did it because they have such a stunning jawline she just couldn't resist.
Cope
5’3 bald indian guy: “wow, it was only my personality keeping me from gettinf a girlfriend! Im sure it has nothing to do with my looks!”
Pretty much yeah
@@imhopelesslyaddictedtofent4266 yes, that is what you are doing
@@imhopelesslyaddictedtofent4266 do you know how many 5 ft 3 bald Indian dudes have wives? I do see them. It might be hard for you if you never go outside but yes I have seen all kinds of couples out there
I have no idea what straight women want… but I’m pretty sure waffles is wrong about it
Oh he's definitely wrong. Straight women are not a monolith. Talk to enough women and you'll find they all want different things.
I can confirm that we don't him, Vasuh is much more appealing
as someone who knows a lot of straight girls, the bar is so low it's in hell at this point. i've seen my friends be in so many toxic or outright abusive relationships, but they won't leave the guy because he gives them attention, grooms himself, doesn't force them into sex and has a smidge of personality. but for clarification i'm balkan, a lot of guys here are mysoginistic or toxic, it's the standart
@@LauraTeAhoWhite I’d like to have a beer with vaush. He seems like a fun dude to hang with.
@@justapickle let me guess the guys are tall Whyte and good looking 😂
It sucks being a guy sometimes. I was raised under someone who was deeply toxicly masculine who told me not to cry because "nobody cared"
It's hard to put my guard down around people. I'm glad Vaush could debate things like this to not have people be too doomer for their own good.
I will say this though to a certain degree I think your father is right for the most part society does not care for us men if we open up and start to cry or show emotions society as a whole for the most part tends to look at that as a weakness even if it's not meant to be seen in that light it's just how people perceive it because of biologically speaking we're not supposed to really show off emotions like that Because it shows weakness and our enemies can exploit that weakness but I totally get where you're coming from and your dad probably took it way to far.
Right, I'm going to offer a counterpoint to Crash here. Obviously a certain degree of stoicism is expected just from the fact you're a dude. Fair. But I think too much of anything is a bad thing. If you're too stoic, you come off as an emotionless robot with no empathy. You cry too much, that also repels people because they think you're overdramatizing your issues when so many people have it so much worse - it's also just a sign of instability, as well as fragility, regardless of the gender.
Say for a second your dad is right - he's not, but let's say he is. Even if no one in the world cared about your tears, it's important that *you* care for your tears. Obviously don't shed them for any little thing, but you should give enough of a damn about your pain to release it instead of holding onto it. Given that guys are so predisposed to concealing their emotions, it basically bursts open like a dam when you finally let it out. Toxic masculinity is tricky conditioning to break, but it does get better if you at least take the time to chip away at it slowly. Showing at least some occasional vulnerability makes you seem more emotionally available, which will help you with family, girlfriends, homies, you name it.
it takes practice, buddy. even just being exposed in the background radiation of masculinity as per society makes it harder for guys to open up to other guys
i was raised to believe that if you cry or express emotion you're annoying and unbearable, and i've heard both leftists and right wingers repeat this point. our society just doesnt like dealing with emotions. hell, i've even heard vaush complain that people who express their emotions are insufferable. i dont even know if it's a toxic masculinity thing. I think it's more of a toxic positivity thing, and not wanting to deal with other's emotions. it could also be a distrust thing, where you worry that you'll look like a manipulator if you express your emotions in any real way.
"You're not man enough to be vulnerable? That sounds like weakness, pussy." is what got me out of that mindset. You can find people who legitimately care about you.
I can just feel the insecurities dripping off this guy...
You wouldn't survive as a 5'2 balding Indian Janitor though?
@@akatskiflow7526 dude yes I would, I'd scrape my head so they all go blind and I could pee anywhere I want
I wonder if The Matrix movie creators ever regret making it and having it later spawn all these dumb ‘red, black, blue, etc, pilled’ ideas.
@@yankeefan1018If I were one of the sister I would feel forever cursed by my creation.
@@akatskiflow7526 I am
if this guy is representative of Black Pill, then I think their main issue is not reading the room or a lack of awareness. he was so stubborn in his thinking. so weird, thinking he knows what other people like.
He does not. I have a lot of positions that can easily be called "black pill" especially wrt dating and romance. They include practically nothing this guy is saying.
That's cos a lot of Black pill people are learning all the wrong lessons during their dating. They don't wanna admit the problem is them
It's possible to know what other people like, or marketing wouldn't exist. This guy just thinks he knows but is wrong about it.
@@Jorge-np3tq Let's be frank though marketing is pretty crap at knowing what women want, too. /gestures at videogames "for girls" and how shyte those are, gestures at plastering pink on everything and saying that's for women
@@neoqwerty I think that's because most people making decisions in marketing are men. But you are just saying "marketing for women is done wrong" not "marketing for women will never work".
I was screaming in chat and real life. There were so many times it felt like he might make a breakthrough, but then his mental defences kick in and cause the most insane things to tumble out of his mouth.
Your comment heavily - albeit inadvertently - reminds me of a song I really like yet haven't heard in a while. _Soluble Words_ by ON (2000). Genuine thanks for that.
@@kneau it reminds me of Kendrick lemar
Seriously it’s so fucking frustrating
He has made thousands of dollars in selling face ratings, wonder why
@@vmofu7317 can’t win em all. Hopefully this guys reflects in private and starts to adjust his beliefs
you can't accurately survey people about what they want because of social desirability bias. A phenomenon where people answer questions not according to their taste, but according to how favorably their answers will be to everybody else.
There are enought studies on dating preferences of women. Its better than asking what they like.
I think when it comes to terms of attractiveness, Vaush is incredibly comfortable in his own skin. He knows how he is attractive and that his appeal isn't universal. Can't say the same for the talking waffle avatar though.
Talking waffle man need juice
Yep. People HATE insecure men and want them to DIE
"the gay community is a lot more online than the straight community"
Vaush: "yeah and they're a lot hornier too"
Boi i can just feel the mild annoyance dripping from that line XD knowing how guilty i am... It had me wheezing XD
I love being called out ❤😂🎉😢😮😅😊
@@asherroodcreel640 ikr I felt so exposed during the bi woman conversation
We love it when senpai takes a moment to keep us in line … but in a subtle way 😏🤣💕
Butt Plug sales went through the roof after Everything, Everywhere All At Once 🎥.....Now you can get them shaped like an Oscar 💪
@@Jojob.5176 when he was talking about the bombing of Serbia
Dude has full on lore. His life truly is like a video game
trying hard to beat the stage
@@bindstf2 all while he is still collecting coins
I knew there was a brad taste in music and vaush audience crossover
@@tristensanz7058 Brad received a donation during a stream with the text "I'm just going to say it: Vaush rad" and the chat went wild lmao
@@tristensanz7058 Of course
As a bi woman, I'd say us being more chill is more down to our more open-minded views and willingness to have interesting conversations more than it's that we've been in the same boat with courting as men. I grew up in the south and from my experiences conservative/libertarian women and some straight girls in general tend to be more exclusionary and hard to approach to anyone who doesn't fit inside their bubble. Even as a woman who was only interested in acquaintances with these women, I had a hard time breaking thru any walls bc they were really only interested in people who thought and looked exactly like them. I think the queer community is taught a lot about inclusion, and you can see that reflected in our friend groups. A lot of queer communities are welcome to newcomers, while straight women tend to stick to their ridged bubbles. That's just something I've noticed tho, other bi women might have a different perspective.
I totally agree with this as a bi woman as well! very well said
This also might be why I have always had a hard time relating to straight women...
I think bisexual women date a lot of more varied kind of men, is that true?
That explains why every gf I've ever had was bi
Wow wow! I’m a bi woman as well from the south and I’ve never thought about that before! But it’s true! Very mean girls like
The amont of self-insert assumptions about social circles from this debate was wild. One of the worst ones was when he says "yeah in a group of guy friends, they'll just bully their fat friend and calll them ' you fat pig'"......bro, what kind of guy friends do you have? Even in straight man circles, most of them are not so horribly socially inept to do that to their friends...because if you just bully somebody, and it's not good natured ribbing....your not friends? The amount of self-loathing this guy must have. "I must be in tip top shape to be accepted by society".
That guy really sounds like one of those bullies, who isn't aware that he's being a bully.
That's actually fairly common. That you have really mean-spirited people, who think they're just being "funny" and just "teasing their buddies".
I think this guy needs to get a reality check on many things...
I wonder if he's ever been friends with a woman. He talks about them like they're another species
He has
I love how this guy is so inappropriately confident that he just keeps putting numbers on his opinions as if he’s done any research or read any research!
I have found this Czech divorce statistic from 1989 and this male virginity stat from the US 2019; therfor 80% of women want men with abbs.
For real. He made up a ton of random percentages.
@@Vincepenalty "You can come up with statistics to prove anything, Kent. Forfty percent of all people know that."
@@nathanmead9585 I love this
I think his issue is that he keeps trying to quantify literally everything and broadly apply it to every single woman. I think once you're busting out calculators, history books, graphs, protractors, etc, when thinking about asking someone they like to hang out, you've already lost.
If people really want solutions, we need to bring back communal social spaces and get back to a point where working a 9-5 for 4-5 days out of the week was enough. People have no free time, less money, less communal spaces to choose from. That, and the whole social media breaking everyone's brains stuff.
The other part is literally people like this dude. They sell a self fulfilling prophecy as content. Nobody wants to be around someone they know sounds like this dude. It's just taking the one woman you know who dated and took advantage of everyone... But them, so they apply it to all women as a post hoc justification for what is most likely just having a repellent personality.
I think there are two main reasons for the rise of incels. First is the impossible beauty standards being pushed on everyone, making many people feel inadequate. The second, much more important factor is dating apps. When you account for the inactive and fake profiles, there are probably about 6 to 10 men for every one woman on these apps. It creates an extremely competitive environment where the winners take all and losers are left with nothing. And when you factor in that the swiping itself is extremely boring, the experience of having no matches at all is absolutely soul-crushing. You waste an hour or more of your time every day doing what feels like a chore for no gain whatsoever. I saw myself becoming a worse and more hateful person after trying these apps for just a couple of weeks, and can´t possibly imagine what it must be like for men who have spent years there without getting a match. That shit can screw up your mind really badly.
This. It is not hard to understand.
Biggest reason for the recent rise of incels is social media. Social media gives more options to women just like dating apps and thus their standards rise. But unlike dating apps pretty much every young woman is on social media.
I meaaan, no. Fact is men are simply having less sex than women, because men ask out women, and women seem to rotate the same men... I don't think it is fine, nor necessary to lie about that.
@@geraldtherat618 While social media platforms are (in my opinion) the main cause for the general toxicity in the public discourse in the last 10-15 years, I don´t think there is a direct link between them and incels. They definitely don´t help, but I don´t think most incels became that way on Instagram or Facebook.
Globalisation of standards and dating apps.
Folks, we must strive to get fully Vaush-pilled.
true!
Take the horse pill, normies
The bread pill is delicious. It looks like a little pill sized loaf of bread.
So you want to be fat and stupid?
@@spacecase8888 do you swollow it with your butt?
I remember thinking my husbands photos were ugly on the dating app we met on, he isn't ugly but his pictures were awful. But his first message to me made me laugh and then proceeded to have a great engaged conversation with me. I couldn't agree to a date fast enough, now we are married with a baby.
@@gidorah this dude seems to just go “but no, other incels say this!” So I think the issue is them trusting their internal anecdotes more than data and evidence
@mr.m6038 You are overestamating the standards for comedy. Also you do not even need to be super funny-be nice, maybe funny and if you put yourself in a lot of social situations eventualy it will work out. And even if it wont-you have friends now and thats good too. No time is wasted either way.
@Mr. M then you gotta make something interesting happen my guy
@mr.m6038 lol I laughed at the stupidity of a tulip centric pick up line, trust me, you don’t need to be THAT funny to get a girl. Mostly just don’t be a dick.
@Mr. M maybe not. But you can make up for a lack of looks with endearing personality traits like positivity, good listening skills, good humor, extroversion, passion for causes, and … well I’ve heard that ugly dudes that get a reputation for being good at ahem… pleasing women… make up for their looks lol
Another aspect of attractiveness is familiarity. You may not be immediately attracted to someone physically but as you are around them more you may find more attraction. especially if you click in other ways.
COPE
Vaush was really easy on this guy and he still destroyed his arguments.
Waffle dude straight up said "This is a societal problem, I acknowledge it, but I will not work to fix this problem in any way."
It's absolutely astonishing. I kinda feel bad for him
I think the blackpill solution is to societally discourage promiscuity and to encourage seeking committed, monogamous relationships. I personally prefer that to hookup culture, but I think it should be applied to both genders equally. In other words, I have a feminist take on an otherwise conservative position.
@@azlanadil3646 😂😂😂
i feel bad for who is is eventually going to kill or maim, dude is like a year or two away from being a serial killer or a rapist at most if he hasnt already.
Don't. I go to the same University as the guy- everyone on campus knows him, everyone on campus hates him. Absolute shithead and he's done it to himself.
@@Akaryusangaslighting cause you know he is right you just don’t understand complex concepts of mate attraction
Men and women are worried to express their real sexual preferences for fear of being judged so we should continue to judge people by those same standards. This guy is insane.
All of this physical attraction stuff sounds like it might apply to one-night hook up situations, but if you get out of the dating apps and the night clubs and start thinking about actual relationships, I guarantee that actually liking a person starts to matter so much more. When you actually love someone, their traits can literally become attractive to you, even if they otherwise wouldn't be.
But if it's not dating apps neither approaching them in a night club, where do you find them? Pretty much anywhere else you're not expected to be looking for relationships and might be seen as creepy if you are.
@@Jorge-np3tq In my experience, meeting people through mutual friends is the best way, and it's also what humans have done historically across time, space and culture. But for folks without many friends, what that means is going out and engaging in areas of interest whether that's hobbies, volunteering for a cause you believe in, and then being friendly with people you meet there. Practice social skills, create the conditions to meet new people, be kind to and interested in those people, and then let nature take it's course. You can't force freindship, and you can't force intimacy. It depends on a leap of faith.
@@yamitrap9688 As you said, that relis on having friends, and even then it's not a very large pool of potential partners. But what I find really discouraging in your position is how out of your control everything is. Faith, nature and so on. That's kind of what incel rethoric is based on, that it's not their fault. There's plenty of men with friends and more or less normal lives that are frustrated because there are many women in their lives but none of them finds them attractive and just want to be friends. They were told it would "just happen" but it never seems to happen for them.
I think there's plenty of middle ground between forcing anything and just meeting people and hoping for things to happen. You mentioned social skills, and I think we shouldn't stigmatize learning and practicing specifically seduction skills. For example, despite all the toxicity in the PUA community, people should stop lumping incels and PUAs together. There's nothing inherently wrong in learning attractive behavior, and at least this way you admit it's your fault not being attractive.
Wait so do you think people get into long term relationships where they are not attracted to their partners?
@@sajtospog9888 well it's pretty rare you meet someone who is perfect in every respect and there's nothing about them you don't like, which means it's fairly inevitable that whomever one falls in love with will have traits they do not like, and what the OP is saying is that if we love a person we can even come to appreciate their aspects that we initially disliked.
It's crazy how easily guys can not care about a woman's feeling in any and all relationship dynamics
They just a want a women to brag about having a gf that’s it.
@Missandry
They want to be wanted so badly
@@rimzaaah5892 Yup I always notice how men always say I need a girlfriend that’s it it never I want a girlfriend so I can show her affection and she show me it’s always I need to have a gf and nothing else.
No guy I have ever met has said or done anything like this. Not saying it doesn't happen, but it must be a vocal minority thing.
But it's totally OK for women to shit in men 24/7 for being ugly
The thing with blackpillers is that they're right - but only when it comes to a very specific, shallow type of woman. They're closing themselves off to all the other women who aren't those shallow, Instagram clout seekers - meaning actually valuable women with whom you can have an actual relationship based on more than fleeting lust or transactional agreements.
Just do xyz bruh
Yep. And it’s a self fulfilling prophecy because of his deplorable personality he will struggle to attract women who are actually attracted to him.
@@liabw05
Thats why Richard Ramirez get women after him and he has a horrible personality
@@liabw05
Just pERsonalityMaxx bruh
The problem with those guys feels like it comes down to the fact is that they desire shallow women, mainly because theyre just intrested in sex and appearence. If it turns out the woman has actual emotions and the relationship doesnt work, they then just blame the woman for being a "dumb mentally ill bitch"
This was a great conversation. I think the main issue that most incel guys face is that they lack the social skills most men in the past had to have by default. I don’t think most incels are losers or creeps. They literally just don’t know what to do. They also conflate standards for casual sex with dating standards. The main advice I’d give for someone like that is to really work on the social/emotional skills. Go out to a bar and just try to have fun. Be open to talking to people with no intentions behind it. I used to be kinda redpill until I outgrew it, and the only valuable advice I got from that is just to be more open and social. All the other stuff is just overthinking something that should be organic.
Yes one of the biggest issues of incels is social skills. That is generally because a large portion (40-50%) of these men are neurodivergent, having issues like autism or schizophrenia. But plenty of these men are also physically unattractive.
Exactly, and if bar is too intimidating for some people then some interest group where you can meet people while doing something else. There are even meet-ups for people with social anxiety so everybody's in the same boat
that is the part of the blackpill. Blackpill = genetics. Autism = genetics. Unlucky and nothing you can do about it.
How to pick up a 47 year old crackhead with missing teeth
Unless you’re attractive, and then you didn’t have to go to the bar in the first place
You definitely hit on something. Indeed men needed and were expected to have better communication skills, be readers and engage women with general respect. Lost graces.
I find it so weird how this Waffle fellow doesn't realize how clearly he's treating women like a commodity. He says "A guy dating a woman is always at the expense of another guy" as if there's a limited number of women and we're all after them. Not to mention ignores how women also have agency and will have tastes that differ and allow different types of men the opportunity to get into a relationship.
To be „fair“, he does it both ways. He also treats guys that way, reducing them to their looks and their finances…
People like that simply have a pretty horrible view of humans, in general. They have convinced themselves that they are oh so rational and intelligent (Waffles says about himself he has an IQ of 133 and considers this something to be very proud of) and therefore they think human interactions are not something to be experienced or intuited… they think it‘s all math and formulas and stuff you can just break down intellectually…
To them, people are reducible to numbers.
The things that women find attractive do not vary much at all. The difference in "types" is small relative to the difference between attractive people and unattractive people.
@@c.m.9369 that's because dating can be reduced to a market analysis on an aggregate basis.
I don't know if by agency you mean that they pursue the people what they are attracted to, but if it is then you are wrong, they don't do that. At most what they do is leave signals but that would just show that they don't have much agency, as they leave it to the men to do the rest, once they are in a relationship that may change.
@@JuliAuditoreLeaving those signals for the men is part of their agency, no? I mean if they weren't interested they obviously wouldn't leave them. If this is a concious decision on the woman's part i'd say she has agency. The lack of forwardness in approaching the guy isn't really a problem of individual agency but just borader socciatel norm of letting the men do the first step
The one thing that Vaush does right in this case, is that he doesn't outright dismiss, patronize, insults (though there be a bit of mockery but in good fun), or talk down to and actually actually acknowledges the points and has a full-on in depth conversation with this guy because he does understand there is a real issue on this problem and understands where this shit often leads young men like this interlocutor. And that's to acknowledge and treat this with more respect and dignity than what most influential people have been doing these years.
Yea but it's so insane how constantly vaush tries to focus on the root causes or what can be done to fix the problems while the incel guy just runs 400 miles out left field and points to traditional and toxic gender values despite those only worsening the issues
One of my favorite things about Vaush. I hate when an idiot spews hate and nonsense as much as the next guy, but I’d rather figure out why they’re saying these things then here a cacophony of debate lords interrupting and yelling at each other.
It deserves respect and dignity. It’s a systemic issue that’s hurting a lot of people, and discussing it amicably on a big platform is a good way to bring it into the mainstream. Can’t solve a problem without analysis, right?
thats every case with vaush
These men won’t listen and they certainly won’t listen to women( the ones they want to date)
Starts a "debunking" video with an ancedotal statement. You cant make this shit up
That's literally half the black pillers in this very comment section
The confidence this man has presenting his own personal opinions as objective facts is almost impressive
And remember, confidence is attractive
@@painunending4610
Confidence is just an aftermath feeling
That comes as a result of Gained Success,
Nothing More Nothing Less,
Specifically Speaking
In The Dating World and Dating Scene.
@@VoidDweller86 facts man, these people are so bluepilled that it's funny af.
@@painunending4610 if ur unnattractive and confident then ur seen as delusional lol 😆, but vice versa you'd be seen as charismatic
Sometimes people use personal experience.
Im quite confident (as a woman) that almost universally women don't wanna date guys who are obsessing over this shit. This might be their main problem and not their jawlines or height. I could be into a guy but as soon as I found out that his hobby is analysing what type of bodyfat ratio "all women" are into and all this other nonsense, I'd be running in the other direction. Women are attracted primarily to whats between your ears and this is just offputting.
Glad to hear women care about what's between the ears, I've been told I have great eyes. Seems ill be alright
Honestly, same this dude that was attractive and 6’7” came up to me off the street to get my number, but I rejected him because he followed me home and kept doing other weird stuff. Like trust me looks don’t matter when you are this weird.
@@auxiliarycord9247
Not gonna lie, I keep seeing comments from guys saying women may indeed be generally uncomfortable with things like what you just described happening to you, but that the moment the guy is conventionally attractive, they'll give him a pass. I'm a guy, so I'm not 100% sure what to make of those makes, though my gut tells me that that's only true in the sense that people who are more well-groomed and physically presentable may be better at not seeming creepy. As a general rule though, even if a guy looks very good, it's my understanding that if he resorts to doing something like what you described, physical appearance would no longer really matter
@@technoloverish In general yeah, a creep's a creep no matter how attractive he is, and you're right that a lot of it is well-groomed guys not giving off creep vibes right away. But because women are not a monolith, there are definitely a few who aren't right in the head who will give attractive creeps a pass. A lot of it is low self-esteem and purposeful self-sabotage. Men do it too. For example, some guys simp for the real life "yandere killer" girl who stabbed her boyfriend because "if I can't have you, no one can" - obviously a creep, but she was cute. Those murder simps are in no way representative of the average man, just as the shallowest women on instagram are not representative of the average woman. That's the problem with comments like those and the blackpill rhetoric in general. An example doesn't make a rule.
All I read was 'I'm not like other girl's'
16:40 heterochromia would probably have been a better example of "non symmetrical beauty" than lazy eyes. Not that lazy eyes cant be attractive, i just think a black pill wouldn’t accept that example considering how weirdly eugenics based half their stuff is. The marilyn monroe mole was a winning example though
" the brad pitt fight club physique" people still dont get that that physique isnt sustainable. Then they body shame people like Jason mamoa and ben Affleck when they're in their off period
I had this 18-year-old kid at the gym get excited when he saw a vein. I told him to drink something, he's dehydrated.
you were right on the nose about how straight ppl can take notes from the queer community when it comes to dating. as a bi guy, i found tinder (in the straight direction) to be way easier than my straight friends, i’m just better at presenting and conversing than straight guys are. me and my gf are both queer but in this “straight” relationship (i have a confusing relationship with gender hence the quotes) and we had a way easier time courting each other than when we are pursuing purely straight relationships
Is your gender Steve?
I’m non-binary and I’ve been told by most men I’ve dated that they find it easy to talk to me because it feels like they’re talking to a guy 💀 so I do think being queer helps take down some of those barriers, at least for me.
@Emmett DonkeyDoodle similar thing happened to me in the past. My last boyfriend freaked out cause I asked him out instead. Apparently that has never happened to him before.😂
@@Jojob.5176 haha that’s how almost all of my relationships have been. I thought it was common. Apparently it’s not, but it is becoming more common, so that’s nice. Gender norms are bizarre
Bi culture is going on tinder and matching with guys who are 9s and girls who are 2s.
Okay props to wheat waffles at 1:05:00 conceding a point. In fairness despite how bad some of his points are, at least the guy isn't totally insufferable to debate with. He seems reasonable enough to not interrupt too much and actually hear Vaush out so fair enough.
So one of my "Ron Swanson throws his computer in the dumpster" moments that lead me to deleting reddit was a woman saying she loved her boyfriend that was shorter than her and everyone immediately telling her she is wrong.
This is good content but most incels will never learn or grow out of it. I know cause i used to have very mild incel-ish tendencies in my late teens and i know from my experience in those communities that it takes a very special set of circumstances to make an incel actively undo it all. The older an incel gets the less likely it is that he'll escape, i know it's depressive but it's the honest truth.
It’s like a self prophesying circle. They break this circle with dance lessons or an art class or anything besides stressing about their SMV :p
Is it OK if I be really really mean to them if they ask for it some of the time?
@@asherroodcreel640 It is okay but you have to coat that in a tone of pity. You don't want them to think you're engaging with them on an emotional level because they'll see it as a win. Instead you want to engage with their points in an overall sense, so not get ambushed into debating some weird nonsense that doesn't actually matter. Showing them pity is a more consistently effective method of deradicalizing them because it makes them feel small and weak which might make them question everything. I have experience with it myself, not totally in an incel way but right wing way in general cause i used to be on the right before so i'm giving you kind of a cheat code here.
@@penpointred It's as simple as that honestly which makes the situation all the more depressive. 99% of the time incels have very screwed up views on social dynamics between men and women so if their incel mindset is threatened they tend to recoil back even further instead of self-reflecting on the possibility of being entirely wrong because that's "weak and feminine" lol. I've experienced this personally and up close, i know every thought that crosses through their minds.
@@penpointred If you're the only guy in a dance class, everyone will know why you're there. You're better off looksmaxxing first
Damn, it’s crazy how the reasons why incels are always so sad and lonely are never ever possibly their own fault or things they can change
It's also even further fucked up by it coming from someone who isn't an incel, talking about how much better he is than them.
NO, I CANNOT CHANGE MY HEIGHT OR MY FACE. I AM NOT LONELY BECAUSE I LOATHE PEOPLE. I AM SAD BECAUSE I NEED PEOPLE TO SURVIVE
@@5FT6MAN At least you're self-aware. Being a positive and fun-loving person carries you hard throughout life.
@@5FT6MAN there are literal lard mountains and tiny people out there who weren’t stopped by it. First things first is *building* (not “finding,” this takes a ton of effort) a circle or friends or acquaintances and improving your relationship with yourself, *long* before bothering with the dumpster fire that can be the game of romance. You will thank yourself for it in the long run.
Also, 5’6” ain’t even significantly short tbh. Like what, 2 inches below the target? Nothing a pair of platform shoes or associating with people who aren’t ridiculously shallow won’t solve. Oh, or a *really* snazzy hat. Partially kidding at the end there but, real talk, you’re at least not alone in what you’re feeling.
@@5FT6MAN wahhh wahhh wahhh wahhhh wahhhh wahhhh wahhhh wahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
I cant make friends because I'm short wahhh
48:49 This is their entire argument in two seconds. "You'd be handed a wife."
That's it. That's all they want, that's all they care about, that's all their position boils down to. Remove all the work and means testing women get to put into choosing their own partners and mandate one woman per man on an objectively judged scale of "dating merit". They're just lazy, prideful, and dumb, and don't want to do the work of being a positive influence on a particular woman, being a good man for them, serving her needs as much as they expect her to serve theirs, being equals in other words, and just let them cheat the game and win based on nothing but their own desire being satisfied.
Absolutely.
Yea I think you’re right
So depressing 🫤
If they weren’t so racist, they could easily find a wife in Somalia.
And the worst part is if they were handed a wife based on their value to society they wouldn't want her anyway. It's not that they can't find anyone. It's that they want better than what they are getting and in their fantasy all men are handed a 9+ tradwife. But maybe you can only pull a 3 because you are, in fact, a 3.
These guys just need to wait for the sexbots to be invented.
And?So?Problem?lol
Least BASED $hariaMaxxingÇel:
The idea that it's usually the man in the relationship that handles the logistics of vacations or going out is hilarious. Who's packing the bagS? Who's arranging care for the pets and/or kids? Who's planning activities? Who's preparing and/or getting the food for the trip together? It goes on and on. Guys often don't know ab all of this that goes into things bc it's the women handling it. Of course, what do I know? I just took a pause in feeding the cats, cleaning the litter boxes, sweeping, making coffee, making a protein shake, washing and bagging fruit, cooking breakfast, and washing dishes before my husband leaves for work to leave a comment, and I adore my husband. I can only imagine not having a loving partner who took everything you did for granted and constantly played the victim. Yeesh 😣
Lol yeah my ex did all that shit when we traveled. She did all the planning and I just tagged along.
Exactly. Women carry most of the mental load as well as home chores.
There is some research that indicates that people overvalue their own efforts. Both positive and negative btw. If you add up how much people self report do you get about 130% of the total. I'm not saying you don't do chores at all or even less, all I'm saying is that your husband probably thinks he does more than you think he does. This is also true for negative stuff btw. If you add up how often people think they break stuff in the house you also get 130%, or how often people forget stuff.
I'm definitely not saying you don't do more, but in general at least from my experience (which is obviously biased as well, but this is mostly about couples that don't include me, so that has a lot less bias) in general it's relatively 50-50, so I wouldn't be surprised if both think they do more than the other person.
When it comes to house chores you still see this over self reporting but even then women indeed come out quite clearly on top (I believe averages are like a 90%-40% split in self reporting), although that is quite quickly changing. At least in the Netherlands the chores seem to be a lot more equal with younger couples. I know a lot of couples where the person who does the chores is just the person that happens to be home from work first.
I just definitely know that I for sure am the one that organises the activities. If it is a group vacation I still am the one that looks up what is the stuff you can do where we are going and reserve the restaurant, stuff like that. And I'm a guy. I know my father always takes weeks every night turning all the photos taken into a photo album. But this kind of stuff is always difficult since there is fairly little actual research on this stuff, so all the evidence is incredibly anecdotal at best.
this thing of sharing your feelings.... is rather boring maga Cliche
This dude came into this conversation automatically believing he was right and knew that no matter what evidence was presented to him, he was just going to deny it.
Modern debate strategy.
well he has a platform,. if he changed his mind, he'd lose it. That is probably the biggest issue with people who have a platform based on a centeral ideology, you can never get them to admit they are wrong or change, because then they lose everything they have.
@@Aeivious Hunter Avalone did it and he's just fine
you realize Vaush did that too? and always does that lol? no awareness at all.
@@silversteinmma Sure, but he's also honest about it. And most of the time, he also IS right. Cuz, yknow, evidence
Even the one time you got this guy to agree to a premise, he walked it back when he realized it challenged his worldview.
i remember, way before i transitioned but was still somewhat openly queer, i was out with some out-of-town friends at a mall and a girl came up to me to tell me she thought i was really cute. she seemed a little less-than-confident but it made me smile and feel good about myself, up until one of the lads (who i assume was straight) told me not to think much of the compliment because of the type of girl she seemed to be (unconfident, less than attractive, kind of alternative, etc), which i thought was extremely unfair because not only did it end up making me feel not great about myself, but it also devalued what the girl was saying/thought and that she had the courage to tell someone she was attracted to that they were attractive.
needless to say, you are entirely and wholly right about how straight dating needs to be more queer. once everyone gets these arbitrary notions of expectations in dating based on gender and just aims to make themselves and someone else happy, the better it will be for everyone including these black pill types.
Your friend was a jerk tbh
You can't change your gender
@@DarkKing-z6b damn, guess i've been doing something unknown for the past six years
@@DarkKing-z6b yikes someone is reallyyyyy trying to be controversial
@@Project2457official it called biology
Fascinating debate! The comments in the Q&A about women complimenting eachother are interesting, because I feel like (as a girl) those kinds of "oh, I'm so fat" conversations between friends always seem to result in everyone ELSE going "oh god, me too-- AND my nose is too big" instead of any sort of actual body positive compliments. I think that experience kind of set me up to always look for faults in my appearance. Maybe things are different in this day and age? I sure hope so.
Maybe it's just me because even though I'm ace, I find bigger women the most beautiful. Therefore I and my friend groups tend to gas up anyone who says they're fat. Also in my opinion it's kinda rude to equate fatness with ugliness, aka that whole "I'm so fat" "no ur not ur beautiful! " Like not only condescending but also not mutually exclusive. I've heard that phrase in female friend groups and I'm not a huge fan of it
I will give this guy one thing; he's quite good at pulling reactionary arguments fresh out of his ass. Sure, they don't bear any resemblance to reality but they will convince some who may be down on their luck, etc.
Agree. He's quite articulate for a one track thinker. I'm sure he sounds quite smart to his audience.
For every argument he gives, he literally provides statistics to back up his arguments. In his videos, he usually even gives the source of these studies and statistics. It's not his fault that the results of the studies are not in line with your world view
@@thoughts8182 Dude did you watch the debate? Statistics were incredibly against him and he's spewing utter nonsense, stop being on this stubborn train, you'll literally just hurting yourself.
@@nicolasmesa8929 I'm not onboard any train. I'm not completely biased towards either parties arguments. They've both stated some truths. For example, the blackpiller states that looks have become extremely important when it comes to dating. This is true, especially amongst generation Zs. And it is largely in part due to social media and the insane standards that it pushes. Vaush also touches on how if these incels learned conversational skills and developed a personality they would do much better with women, I also beleive this is true too. But I also understand that it's not easy to develop these skills when you been ostracized because of your looks. So honestly, both sides have provided good arguments. I am not so mentally stonewalled to alternative opinions just because the media tells me "Incel bad"
@@thoughts8182 Oh poor you, you got it all wrong, Vaush states that looks aren't as important as the blackpill Incel states they are, yes, but is not only about "learning conversational skills" it's more about being less of an INCREDIBLY misogynistic Incel piece of garbage human being, which the Incel didn't even realize thorough the combo and neither did you apparently. Also, for the record"All women are X" is just a rephrase of "All the women I specifically like, are X" just lower that inflated standard you have and the disgusting Incel mysoginy, listen to women instead of this "evolution" "tactics" shit and treat them like human being just like you and you'll be fine.
This guy Vaush is debating is a master class at demonstrating what anxiety and projection is and how it completely constructed his social Darwinian worldview.
He wants to look at a study (and only ones he agrees with) and strip it of all context and somehow apply it to all of society.
Vaush is 1000000% correct about the queer community. The communication and emotional understanding in these spaces is encouraged, whereas it's essential nonexistent in straight communities, often times aggressively discouraged in more conservative regions.
He straight made up bullshit conclusions.
There are way less queer people than straight people. Of course they are going to be more willing to shack up with a partner more easily/quickly.
@@demodiums7216 your response makes no sense. The comment you replied to stated how queer folk tend to be more emotionally intelligent, not rush into things.
@@demodiums7216 That's part of it but what's truly underappreciated is the effect AIDS had on the queer community. Queer spaces are simply infinitely better talking about safe sex practices, relationship intentions, and comfortable broaching uncomfortable personal subjects, because they HAD to to survive.
@@Bonaboo and im saying that that has nothing to do with it. Also....what evidence is there that they are more emotionally intelligent? Seems like a pretty subjective/baseless claim
Yeah, with a lack of predefined roles, people seem to figure out what works best for the parties involved.
Crazy how the dude see's the problems but thinks the fix is to make it worse.
Also I'm pretty sure he can't get some because he does not, and refuses to understand us. Like, if you're after women, maybe... You know, speak to women? Get to know our experiences?
Why does he assume he understands how straight women work?! He's not straight nor a woman! I'm at least a woman, but even I don't proclaim to understand straight women (when it comes to their attraction to men, that is)
Good convo. Maybe I’m from a different era at age 46, but I dated a lot of women, I’m happily married now with kids, and i have a lot of physical flaws. I tend to agree with Vaush that a good personality can go a long way. Especially if you genuinely care about your friends, family, colleagues, etc.
This stuff is a information hazard, as just knowing what a smv is costs you 3 points in my book.
What is an smv?
@@Ironraven001 sexual market value, caring about that is gringe
@@daraghokane4236Fuck I wish I hadn't had that shared with me...
bro come on i googled it and lost 3 points immediately? i already had so few points man
@@mechtist scars are sexy you get 4 points if you have a mysterious scar and never tell the origin, we just need a newer more arbitrary list
I'm half an hour in, and this guy can be summed up with: "I have my belief system, and everything that critiques, threatens, undermines or contradicts it, is never enough to adapt or do away with my belief system."
Outliers don't disprove a rule
@@ryzikx how's the straw you're feeding to your strawman?
I'm a stand in for blackpill, want to discuss it?
@@boringusername000 What is there to discuss? Its factually incorrect and at best sometimes a misinterpretation of reality.
@elrey1176I don't think so because just like a radical leftist or right wing extremist, a black pill incel has the very bottom base of his beliefs rooted in tangible data and facts that he then extrapolates from into his chosen narrative
A guy not having a 10/10 women knock on his door 24/7 for being the genetic peak isn't the same as "you'll forever be doomed to being alone due to biological determinism"
There are many things you can do to get laid and many women open but much of incels only hypocritically hyper focus on women outside their league lmao
The caller is simply believing what he wants to believe, he is stuck in a prison of his own creation.
The very fact that this person puts forth an "SMV" as if sex and relationships are predominantly transactional rather than mutual private experiences tells you everything you need to know about this person's worldview
Relationships are transactional on some level. Nobody enters a good relationship unless they think they can get something into it and give something into it
@@painunending4610exactly. Hell casual s3x is transactional.
It's just an approximate model to explain what's happening. SMV is a valid concept. You could ask a panel of 100 people to rate 10 people in order of attractiveness and the results would have a very strong correlation.
A lot of relationships have an underlying level of being transactional due to the nature of us being material creatures that require material to stay in existence for any significant length of time. Any relationship that only benefits one party at the expense of the other will not last long should the exploited party find a way to get out of it.
Balanced relationships tend to provide benefits to both parties by allowing for both parties to potentially spend less on securing shelter and free up time via division of tasks and labor as cooking twice the amount of food while takes more time than only one serving isn’t double the time to complete. Even cleaning is faster because you are going to vacuum the same square footage of carpet whether 1 person walks on it or 2
If there is no reason for both parties to get into a relationship, a relationship will not happen.
Talking to "blackpilled" people is so frustrating because it really does seem like the core problem is that they dont talk to women, which leads them to not really view them as people.
Correct they do not view them as people they don't know how to relate to them.
The core problem is their genetics.
Just data to be parsed.
@@geraldtherat618 Going outside
@@geraldtherat618 theyve got their parents' genetics and their grandparents', and their great-grandparents' and so on, and ALL of those people have clearly had sex and probably a relationship at some point so odds are, it's not thier genetics
I'm passingly familiar with the lesbian bed death statistic and what I remember is that it was incredibly misleading as they defined sex as strictly penetrative sex so all other forms of lesbian sex just didn't count at all.
i figure lesbians have less sex as in less “times per week” but when we do it takes way longer haha so if you actually counted the overall time it will be much higher
I immediately thought of “Death Bed: The Bed that Eats” 😂
@@anaitm8103 yeah, it's way more difficult, due to time constraints, but so damn worth it 😅😅😅😅 (ahhh been a little bit)
I was considering that being the case ☠️ It's still ridiculous that some think there's one way to have sex.
@@anaitm8103 gay/bi guys have marathon sex with other guys too. I'll eat ass for hours and im just warming up.
According to this guy's logic, we should all only like pop music and anything that deviates from the norm is just musical crap.
Lmaoo truuuue! It'd be hilarious if this guy's Spotify got leaked and his top artist was Taylor Swift or something
Your analogy just isn’t right. First of all music is art and therefore subjective. Attractiveness, especially when it comes to what women perceive as attractive, is more objective than you might think. Why are male virginity rising so high and why do the top percentile of men on tinder hoard the majority of matches? Because conventionally good looking men are seen as healthier and fitter mates to carry women’s offspring. Why do many male celebrities possess very similar facial characteristics? Because those features are considered universally attractive. Yes there may be some deviation here and there between what women see as their type but on the whole these men will possess very similar features. Why do the likes of Henry Cavill and Ian Somerhalder, for instance, receive so much fandom from so many women if attraction were to be subjective?
Well, you kind of made his point for him there. Sure, there are other kinds of music out there, but the vast majority of people like, or at least have listened to, pop music. It might not be their favorite kind of music, but not many people straight up hate it. It´s even in the name ffs. Attractiveness is the same way. Some traits are considered attractive to niche subgroups (like moustaches or specific piercings) while others (like being lean, tanned and well-groomed) are considered attractive almost universally. People who pretend this doesn´t exist just sound silly, especially women.
@@jirkazalabak1514 Most pop music is forgotten as fast as it shoots to popularity. Nobody remembers it 10 years later. Nobody is affected by it. It changes nobody's life.
You really want to be a dime-a-dozen blip in the radar of someone's life?
This was such a fun debate to watch, it's honestly one of my favourites and i hope has gotten through to some black pillers
Wheat Waffles needs to touch grass BADLY
He has hookup culture and dating confused. Women only want to hook up with guys that are more physically attractive. When it comes to actual pairing up, looks are not particularly important to women.
Doesn't the wheat in his waffles count?
He doesn't believe what he's saying.
@@vanadyan1674 That's true of anyone! It's not unique to heterosexual women.
No matter your gender, or the gender of your preferred partner, everyone goes primarily for looks when it's just a hookup and not something you're expecting to turn into a longer relationship.
FR FR!
All he'd need to do is ask himself whether the majority of older heterosexual men that he knows are married, or at least have been at one time, and that right there will disprove the whole 1% idea!
He needs to get away from PUA culture.
Literally only 20 mins in and I feel so bad for this guy. He's convinced himself that women all want these like lean, muscular men with all these top genetic features and that's all. He can't even fathom the women are nowhere near as fussed about appearances as he makes them out to be, probably because recognising that means that it's not the looks that are the reason these men aren't getting laid.
Oh boy, you said the opposite of what these dummies think women want! I hope you're prepared to see the men telling you that you are completely wrong... for some reason
Not all women need those looks, but generally speaking if you had one man tall and lean and the same guy but short and fat, almost no one is more attracted to the latter if they are being honest. Short fat guy can still get laid but they aren't getting the same attraction that say a tall or plus sized woman is getting.
@@elderscrollsmoddingtech7252 Yeah we have conventionally attractive people in society, and not everyone is equally attractive. That's nothing new lol. I will say though that how you act and carry yourself matters a lot
This dude's making out that looks are everything, and that if you don't have them you're basically fucked, and that isn't the case. Most of the time these incel/black-pill types just have unattractive personalities. They wallow in self-pity and anger over issues they've either made up or blown way out of proportion.
There are scientific data that he has linked in his videos to affirm the logic that women like fit guys?
If the handsome tall guy is self obsessed, arrogant and shallow and the other guy is chill, kind and good to chat to, looks very quickly become irrelevant. Also different people have different energy and connect with others in unique ways. At the end of the day being human and real is what counts.
This is just staying down after getting knocked down. One or two experiences does not define reality. Keep pushing everyone, in everything you do, never give up 👍🏼
me as a person, i not into relationships. never have been, i even had to let down guys and girls saying i rather be freinds. honest what i found that people are interested in is not really looks but personally and having confidence around other, being open but not too open is what i think is key to scoring deep relationships. i have always been a best friend. never a boyfriend. so maybe this wont work for others. but i personally think people just need to be a person who is a friend.
Hell yeah dude, I'm aro-ase (aromantic -asexual) and I've noticed that with people I'm around communication and knowing and caring about each other's wellbeing are all important to healthy and long lasting relationships
Like your SO should be your best friend in the world because you aren't just fuckbuddies and you are important to each other so it can last
Demisexual here, I agree. I think ironically, when I decided I wasn't going to go looking for a relationship and when I became less concerned with being perceived as attractive, THATS when I started to get attention. Even on days with no makeup, and no effort for hair and clothes.
I dressed for comfort and fun, which made me more confident and approachable. My interactions were more genuine because I wasn't caught up in being something to that person just being present. I think people catch onto that.
"No, it's not true" - translation: that reality conflicts with my initial assertions. Waffle is trying to bend reality to fit his opinion instead of adapting his opinions to match reality
This man didn’t understand the difference between a concern and a regret. I’m supposed to take him seriously. He should have been laughed out of the call.
Vaush, can I just say that I’ve been a fan of you for long and I watch your videos consistently. I have noticed a lot of language like “bitches”, “women are idiots, etc. lately, which I still read as ironic quite confidentely, but I do think you should be mindful of the type of language you use. I don’t always feel as included in this community when that sort of language is used so often. I don’t know if anyone else feels this way… anyway, would love if you could address this.
Otherwise, keep doing god’s work. ❤
also does god accept sleeping with animals? Do you have a diffrenet bible? The satanic one maybe?
28:12 “they don’t even get to the texting part” bro u know damn well most guys tinder profiles have 5 red flags minimum
Not true. Only a few guys have cringy profiles. The biggest reason why guys don’t get matches on dating apps is poor looks.
Maybe Wheat Waffles wouldn't be so blackpilled if he learned to loosen up and have a laugh like Vaush does. Haven't heard this guy crack one joke that didn't sound like he was crying inside yet, and even then those were few and far between.
Basically this.
WW is diluted blackpill, not even complete. Check out ITV, pure blackpill 😊
Inkwell TV cracks jokes every 2 minutes.
Rehab room, oreoman, Kent TV, Saint Hamudi, ITV. All blackpill and jokes
Yes definitely there are more healthy ways of getting into self improvement but this is the most brutal and fastest way to get your mind in gear on how you can improve your situation but in the meantime you sacrifice the worldview you previously had.
1:11:22. Thank you VERY much for the gym advice, Vaush. I have been starting to slack a bit on working out my legs which ends up also missing out on my butt so you have inspired me even more so to get back to it.
It‘s completely insane how much some chicks like a dumpy mf.
"Women don't find feminine men attractive."
-Yaoi has entered the chatroom, everybody stand up and salute, "Ave Caesar!"
P.S: There's no such thing as *the dating market*, its just an expression.
• Yaoi is jacked and has a 10/10 jawline and facial structure. The feminine stuff is bluepilltalk. If you are good looking you can be as mean or good as you want, women are gonna date you anyways.
• Tinder, Bumble, every other dating app, ever, functions like a market. "Going on a date" with someone is literally a job interview for being a boyfriend. Dating is a market and your looks are your value proposition.
Not just yaoi anymore either. Look at all the pop stars that have been playing with gender norms. Harry styles is a good example, he pissed a lot of people off with that dress photo but the girls and women ate it up haha.
@@j.d.s.8132 you need some fresh air brother.
@@skittlesnkibbles Thats always been the case in history i think yeah.
@@j.d.s.8132you guys cringe me so hard
For any men out their who are struggling with relationships. Don't over complicate things. If you enjoy the company of women (being friends, having a laugh) you will end up in a sexual relationship. I can't tell you how many men I've been attracted to based on having a wonderfully interesting conversation, knowing the man is genuinely interested in what I have to say. Really talking is intimate, it does not take much to tip the balance. Join clubs, go out in groups, take the pressure off. If you buy this black pill stuff you will end up lonely because it is pure misogynistic bs. Ask yourself what woman would want to sleep with a guy who hates women? For a start it would be very risky physically.
Being genuine interested in the woman you spend time with, is the secret I use all the time. It's uncanning how well it works.
And having a good sense of humor...
How is the black pill misogynistic?
@@amirpride
🤣 Great joke!
@@vertigo4236 Really, I want to know. What makes the blackpill so misogynistic?
@@amirpride Dude, sorry.
I have read enought of your comments here, to know were you stand.
If you **honestly** don't understand why the incel/blackpill comunity at large is misgyonistic, that would mean that you are so deep into it, that I have not the abillity to reach you.
But that would mean, I believe you are honest here. Which I don't. Try your spiel at someone else.
This guy is totally showing his age. Literally every woman in a het relationship is upset that the man never cleans, cooks, and just sits around while she also works full time and cleans everything. Who gives a fuck about “planning trips”?
Yip. What a bunch of juveniles! Much to learn.
How is that showing his age though?
It implies he's never lived with a partner long term.
He's clearly showing his limited intelligence. He keeps using long words he's heard elsewhere, but has very limited actual comprehension.
So I’m a recovering alcoholic…so going to a bar is a hard no for me.
But as a result…due to current cultural modus operandi, I’m effectively disqualified from my dating pool. All dating (at least in my region of the USA) revolves around alcohol or activities based on alcohol consumption.
My health and self-care is more important to me than a vapid courting exchange.
First of all, I hope all is going well in your recovery process. Second, as someone who just doesn't like drinking, it's bizarre how much of adult socializing is tied to alcohol not even just dating. There's also this odd idea of it being intrinsically tied to fun, like you can't have fun or must not be fun if you don't want to drink. Which encourages people to peer pressure to get them to "have some fun"
@@kevinandorsusie four years sober as of this month!
Good convo, but this is not DESTROYING ALL INCEL BLACKPILL ARGUMENTS ONCE AND FOR ALL...
It did
@@DhukuAC5'2 balding indian janitor can definitely pull some women with magical, secret superpower "personality". Sure, man.
@@insirable3127 believe it or not
Yes.
He can pull ‘some women’.
Get out of your incel cage and you’ll see that to be true.
Personality definitely plays a bigger part for women than looks.
But keep believing your pseudoscience to make you cope instead of empirical reality.
But hey…maybe it is once an incel always an incel.
@@insirable3127Uh, maybe don’t go for women way out of your league and don’t be a miserable ass and maybe you’ll find a girl interested in you. The problem with incels is that many of them desire model tier women and are angry that those women don’t like them back.
@@insirable3127 I always see this racial caricature but how much of the population do these people make? maybe 1%. And the Indian Janitor probably has had a wife for lot longer than you did lol.
In defense of obese people not wanting to date other obese people: personally if I'm struggling with something, it's easier when my partner isn't struggling with the same issue
Yet everyone who isn't obese thinks obese people are gross. If you're unwilling to take care of your body stay away from people who do.
@@joshuaortiz2031 It must be difficult lugging that dead, rotting, miserable soul around everywhere.
@@joshuaortiz2031 I'm not obese but that's because half the time I forget to eat because I'm almost never hungry. I'm lean, but do I take care of my body ? I'll let you decide. I ate one meal today (dinner).
@@joshuaortiz2031"everyone" meaning you and all the other insecure dudes who say this shit as a cope, amirite
@@antod1602to be fair, he was just huffing a LOT of copium.
Listening to this black pill guy talk I have flashbacks to when I was depressed, you keep saying and doing shit that is counterproductive to your well being because your brain tricks you into believing they are.
Mad respect for Vaush to stand up for him though, some of those "questions" were really mean and it's clear that this guy isn't well, he just conditioned himself to pretend he is and it shows.
"Life is a bitch and then you die" is a quote that can very well summarize how this guy views the world around him and it's sad, I hope he gets better.
L0L'ed T0P K£K
The saddest thing is he has sex now, yet he doesn't enjoy any of it or has any true love in his life because he is so miserable
That's why we get high
@@wile123456 true. He probably believes that if he was 4 inches taller he'd be married.
@@tomisaacson2762 cause you never know when ya gonna go
The problem with these people is that they try to logic their way into relationships. Here's the thing though, humans are not rational, love is fundamentally sentimental. Atraction in humans is not straightforward at all, and its an entirely different thought process for every single person on earth.
Theere can be an underlying logic to womens mate slection, without them having to conciously think it. Thats the whole point
You can tell this guy has really poor emotional intelligence and desperately wants to apply some sort of framework to understand women and relationships.
@@ahadkhan3486 Both can be true. There is an underlying logic to most of our gut reactions, hence why first impressions are important. However, people are able to consciously override their initial thoughts when they turn out not to be true/useful/relevant to a situation. And through constant small "course corrections" you can de-program and re-program your thought patterns to an extent based on past experiences and societal expectations. Brains are malleable. That's why the process of attraction is different for every person.
@@ahadkhan3486 peoples preferences are different and flexible based on their mood, life stage, past experience, etc. Why try to figure out an underlying logic that is different for every person and prone to almost spontaneous change? Seems like a waste of time to me, people should focus on only the women they're meeting not the entire demographic
@@thesahel7218 the women their meeting and the general prefrence will be the same for their underlying attraction.This is the fundemental difference between bluepill and BP. Women are not like men, men have a general attraction towards women that is sexual in nature. Women have a s SPECIFIED attraction to a certain type of man (Tall, good jaw, lean, etc). Its important to acknowladge this reality, as pretending that women like "different" types of men is harmful especially for young men to hear.
What a nice debate. Its more like a conversation where both people actually hear each other out and address most of the points.
If this debate was any reflection of Wheat’s conversational skills when on a date or otherwise, let’s just say I’m not surprised he’s blackpilled... or that he seems utterly perplexed by the suggestion that a woman might like a man for more than his looks outside of “niche circumstances”. Maybe he was just nervous, but he seems like a really stiff and unengaging interlocutor here- like 90% of the Q and A segment was just _no comment_ from him, and/or Vaush answering for him, lol. Like most people from the blackpill community, he makes these very vague Darwinistic prescriptions about social dynamics he demonstrably doesn’t understand with remarkable confidence. Touch. Grass.
Yeah, it's concerning how can one arrive to such an age and still having those rigid dispositions
The more this guy speaks the less chance he has of ever reproducing. Darwinism at work.
He’s mostly just making other men into failures. I bet he’s not even totally an incel irl. He just spreads the self-defeating mythology to his followers
@@alephmale3171
Rare WheatWaffles W fr fr 💯
@@alephmale3171
They failed at Le Ev0luti0nary game lol
@@alephmale3171 coming from him, one man's gain is another man missing out
And you're happy, aren't you? Just admit you want to see incels suffer, because it's one of the only groups people can belittle without repercussions.
the best way to get someone out of a black pill mindset is to take them to a ren fair and look at the couples
Okay,A®¥AN Ūberm£ns¢h
I’ve got a challenge for you, next time you go, don’t include anyone over the age of 25 in your observations. Millennials are somewhat less affected by the impact that technology has had on the younger generations in terms of dating
Why would that work?
@@just9911 Fandom communities in general do that a lot.
I was very bewildered when I realized how many other guys were right there with me in fanfic writing spaces just rolling with being assumed as women and girls instead of correcting anyone to keep being able to just... chill and squabble and create without any "real men" BS popping up.
The local grocery store will do.
On the topic of male/male friendships
I don't get the bad rep it often gets. Half my friends are men and the other half are women and yes, my female friends do tend to give out more complimenta but my male friends have been amazing in regards to emotional support as much as my female friends.
When dealing with depression years ago. I have broke down in tears in front of 3 men and none have ever mocked me for it or shamed me. I've got nothing but support, understanding and a lending ear by men (and women).
And despite all the compliments my female friends tell me which i appreciate. My best friend (who is a man) has gave me positive meaningful words that really stayed with me. I remember two sentences he has said to me that prevented me from going to a dark depressing place. To the point where my own therapist told me she believes my best friend has been a massive help with my mental health
Maybe I'm just lucky that nearly ever man I develop a friendship with are the "rare" ones. 🤷 but my male friends are just as awesome as my female friends.
So I don't get it when people make out that male on male friendships are toxic and lack any emotional depth. Not in my experience at least 🤷
It's always really telling when someone _definitely_ has an idea about what _every_ man or woman wants in a partner, and any deviation from that thought is an, "Outlier" or "Niche". I've seen enough of my friends going for exactly what this guy says are things that people wouldn't go for. It's always so weird.
So true. It's like waffles never stopped being 14
@@machyne2180 my step dads like that
It's almost like he's convinced himself that the combination of "opinions" and "frustration" results in a statement of universal truth rather than just...the opinions of a person who doesn't know how to deal with frustration.
Throwing out the data that doesn't fit to make your theory work is always a sign of Super Logical Thinking!
If a model was into me, I would be deeply uncomfortable because I would think they look too much better than me. If I liked her personality enough, I would date her, but the difference in looks is definitely a wall I'd have to get over at first.
"overweight women, with 20%-25% bodyfat" Dude, if you want to throw numbers like that you might want to make sure they are accurate.
Overweight women is more like 35% and up body fat. But it definitely depends on a girl proportions if she is desirable.
Yeah he was wrong about that one. They both made some good points. It's tough to determine who's correct because there's just so many variables and it's difficult to draw conclusions even from the data that exists.
43:38 Vaush says "women don't care about appearance that much". There's plenty of evidence that refutes this.
His audience doesn't seem to care. They just want to stay blue-pilled and strawman and make fun of different opinions.
this wasn't a super good debate on vaush's part and i do disagree with a lot of what vaush says here but he's still more correct than the blackpill dude so
And these evidence literally come from multiple health organizations such as CDC and NHS. Even Harvard University has statistics on it.
Women care very much. Not only about physical attractiveness but also about other qualities, but without physical attraction a woman will not want a man. Why would she want to if she's not attracted to him?
@@esmeralda6111 Ask the hundreds of gaslighters, including Vaush himself, who claim that women happily and willingly sleep with unattractive, poor, low-status men all the time🤦♂They have all been brainwashed by Disney movies and think IRL: Personality > Looks
Truly an example of the chad bisexual vs the virgin hetero
It wouldn't surprise me he is Ace or aro
Someone needs to tell this guy that the modelling industry isn't real life. He comes across as very sheltered and naïve to the real world.
How so, models are models for a reason
Tons of people seem to be saying this. WW does have good dating experience
@@ryzikxTwo women aren't good dating experience lad.
@@EltipoquevisteayerModels are exactly that real life human dolls that you dress up, put make up on and take photos of. They are real people but vast majority of them aren't really smart or enticing lol. They only have their looks to hold them in life and huge amount are depressed because they are viewed as dress up dolls.
It might seem strange, but this guy actually did look into all the stuff he said he was going to look into, and now he's not blackpilled anymore! He just needed to get the facts!
Wait, really? Do you have a link to that?
Yeah commenting to get notified if you provide sauce
@@thek2despot426 aw I'm sorry guys. It was a dark joke about the depressing fact he accepted new information with honest curiosity but reflexively twisted it to suit his bleak narrative. should've written it better
@@michaelnewman7248 no that was a perfect piece of satire. Unfortunately, not everyone is always going to get the joke so don't worry about it keep doing what ur doing
@@michaelnewman7248 perfectly fine joke, ppl in this community are just dying for hopium😂