HFA Review - Thorens TD1601 turntable compared to TD160 Super, TD160mkII, TD125mkII, and Linn LP12
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- Опубліковано 27 вер 2024
- I explain all about the Thorens TD1601's operational aspects and how it performs in relation to the TD150 Super, TD160mkII, TD125mkII, and the Linn LP12.
This video was shot using a Canon 750D camera, instead of the previous video's iPad Pro11. It's still 1920x1080 HD so no 4K just yet, but still a lot better. I will keep working on improving the quality of successive videos.
Please note that I intentionally keep these videos short and simple. For in-depth descriptions, please go to www.hifi-advic... and read the extensive reviews. Here are a couple of relevant links:
HFA Thorens TD1601 review: www.hifi-advic...
HFA Thorens TD1601 vs AVID Diva II SP Mini Review: www.hifi-advic...
HFA all Thorens-related reviews: www.hifi-advic...
Christiaan, this was the best Thorens TD1601 review I have seen. A very underrated feature is the balanced XLR cartridge output. In my living room, my stereo provides the sound for the multimedia devices and television too. That means that a network switch, switch mode power supply and lots of poorly or non screened power cables are around.
Balanced XLR cables have the major advantage over RCA coax cables that the neutral chassis ground provides the screening and not the signal “-“ which may or may not or poorly be connected to ground. This avoids all the noise from outside blasting into the very low signal input of the phono pre-amplifier. I advise to put silent caps on the RCA connectors of the TD1601 when utilizing the XLR interfaces. Unfortunately XLR input phono pre amps are hard to find, but available. The Avid Pulsare II offers those excellent connections and is therefore certainly a very good match.
Hi Rudolph, that's nice to hear! Indeed, XLR connections are rare on phono stages. But in addition to offering XLR inputs, the Pulsare II even offers the possibility to use the RCA connections as balanced signals!
Lately installed the same AT33 Sa on my TD125 MKII. I am a Fan of Shibata needles since 25 years. It is even better than the AT33 PTG which I had before. It sounds so tight, open and smooth at the same time I am rediscovering my LP collection currently. However installation and adjusting with the Schön template is a bit tricky because the stylus and the boron cantilever are so minuscule.
My TD125 MKII is modified with a widia bearing seat, precision pulley and renovated electronics, at the moment I don`t feel the need for a change.
Thank you for your nice review, though.
Thanks for your short and pointed review. I have the TD1601 with AT33PTG/II connected to a Keces Ephono Preamp. It’s a brilliant Mixture and the best I’ve ever owned.
I've lived with my TD1600 since it came out in 2020, first with a left over Rega Apheta, and last year I received the matching Thorens TAS1600 MC cartridge. This review is spot on, except I had the chance to compare with the Linn LP12 Klimax, and I can only say it was so close that the LP12 owner became uncomfortable!
Very enjoyable review 🙂 I have a customised TD160 MK1, Rega RB300 tonearm, Goldring 1022 GX cartridge, cherry wood plinth with adjustable levelling cherry wood feet (all made by me), LP12 springs (which are longer) and other mods. It is a very musical lively turntable, it always got people up dancing. I don't even want a more expensive model, I love it, it's my baby 😎
I agree, once a turntable succeeds in making one get up and dance then you've achieved the most important benchmark and then there's no real need to upgrade. Moreover, improving a certain area can come with a penalty in another area so, when happy, don't change the team!
What's the benefit of putting the LP' 12 Springs, I can't see it make any difference.
@@jedi-mic I agree there probably isn't any, but that is all I could buy back then and it gave me a tonne of work extending the struts. I've no idea if any difference occured either but it's a great turntable and I haven't used it for many years now. But I will again, the drive and punch that many talk about with DD Technics... This Thorens does it in spades with all my 1990s electronic 'dance' records that you just gotta dance to 😁
It looks like an excellent turntable. The quality of sound was really very apparent from the clips you played. I have a few Thorens turntables as references and my main testbed is a TD150. The areas that impact sound are chassis stiffness, resonance dampening, main bearing thrust-plate material, plinth stiffness, motor power supply and tonearm choice. Lowering the noise floor and increasing power supply quality make the TD150 super-capable. It seems that this Thorens is a Great Leap Forward! I should find one to audition!
The very first turntable I owned was a tD150! But that was very long ago when I was a teenager, long before I became an audiophile. I certainly did not treat it with the respect it deserved... 🙂 If you're interested, see my TD1601 review on the hifi-advice website in which I compare various classic Thorens turntables to one another, and to the TD1601: www.hifi-advice.com/blog/turntable-and-accessories-reviews/turntable-reviews/thorens-td1601-turntable-part1/.
Great review. I look forward to you getting 100,000 subscribers.
Thanks! You and me both! :-)
You appear to understand very well how TTs affect the sound and why. It has a great deal to do with vibration and resonance suppression. Rigidity, low friction parts, isolation from all forms of noise and vibration, mass damping and even mat and record coupling to the mat all have major impacts on the sound. I've heard switching to a different mat completely change the sound of a turntable. It was Linn and their iconic Sondek LP-12 that taught the world in the late 70s the fact that turntables, not just the cartridge, actually impact the sound in major ways. It was discovered almost accidently when it was noticed systems employing the Linn LP-12 were blowing away the scores of Japanese direct drive TTs that were so popular at the time. The Linn just sounded a whole lot better but people back then didn't quite understand why until they researched the physics behind what''s going on. But a lot of this knowledge got forgotten when records became defunct. But the old grey beards remember and understand.
Excellent video and review. Keep them coming.
Thanks, will do!
Nice, concise review. Liked and subscribed!
Thanks for the sub!
Beautiful Thorens Turntable! I really like the Audio Technica cartridge, too.
It sure is!
Nog geen reactie nou ikke maar:) heel duidelijk uitgelegd en blijkbaar een perfecte prijs/kwaliteitsverhouding.
De 33EV is ook hier weer een goede match
Thanks! The AT33Sa is indeed sonically not too different from the AT33EV but it has a more advanced stylus shape that enables more accurate tracking.
i have a linn lp12 and a td166m2,they both make my music fantastic to listen to ,i play my 45s on the thorens mostly etc,my linn for 33s ,im lusting over your new td1601 lol...
Hi, just discovered your channel.... linked and subscribed. I only have a home cinema system but dream of one day having space for a set up like yours. I would call myself a cinephile and an audiophile so I do have a superb "living room" home cinema. Your presentation was first class. Good luck developing your channel 🙏🙏🇬🇧
I always like to give my tt a little help by spinning the table with my finger from standing still to help the motor
Indeed, with my classis Thorens turntables, I always did, too! I think it slows down the belt aging process. With the TD1601, somehow, I stopped doing this. Probably because the platter is so nice and shiny;-)
If you have time......can you tell me what's the difference between a balanced and non balanced connection. Thanks 👍
Wish using dust cover didn’t affect the sound; and thank you; for great review
I agree! Alas, I find that in audio, everything matters.
Thank you for your informative video.
Glad it was helpful!
Audio Technica AT33Sa at $1,200 CAD -- ouch!
Great review. I am about to buy a unit, will use it (for the time being) with the phone stage of a Audionet SAM SE. Can you give an idea of a good phone stage with balanced inputs?
Many thanks
Bert
I've tried a couple quite costly phono stages (between 9.000 and 30.000 euros) with true balanced inputs but I was not wowed by the results. Based on my experience thus far, I would recommend not stressing over balanced versus unbalanced. The latter is what I use, even with the costliest turntables and phono preamps, and it can produce fantastic sound.
I have a TD 160S Mk 5. It's the only TD160 which has an auto-lift so could be worth comparing to this rather expensive update. Given that a 160 Mk 5 can be purchased in the second-hand market for at the most 25% of the price of this I find myself disinterested in the potential upgrade. However I would love to read or hear an in depth review of the Mk 5. It was made in Germany btw and I love it!
A comparison could indeed be interesting but I have never encountered that turntable. Also, having heard multiple incarnations of the 160 (including the 160 Super) and given the Mk5's very similar construction apart from the arm (platter, bearing, sub-chassis, suspension, motor, casing), I'm inclined to assume that this player won't deviate too much in terms of sound quality from its forebears. Or, at least not in terms of the aspects in which they weren't so great. (for the details on this, please see the extensive review on my website). Finally, of course, I'm aware that an arm can have a large impact but one also shouldn't underestimate the importance of the rest of the player. But Ultimately, what counts is that you are happy with your player. And one thing's for sure, all Thorens players possess that infectious musicality.
@@hifi-advicehigh-endaudioeq3675 Yes and no. I had an early TD160 so I can tell you that the Mk5- which was made in Germany by the way- is a far tidier piece of kit with superior damping, power supply, and as you mention-arm. The TP 90 arm is a huge improvement on the familiar TP60 one.
The auto lift, not popular with audiophiles, is a boon as far as I'm concerned -no more getting up in the morning and finding that your stylus is bumping along on the label!
Wholly agree on the auto cut-off, as long as it doesn't interfere with the SQ, then I'm all for it!
You must get rid of the mat and buy a Arcomat from Funk Firm.. In fact I would imagine their upgrades for the LP12 will support the 1601 and incredible is an underestimation of the upgrades..!!
Good tip! Seems like a good option🙂
Any chance of a review of the classic Nakamichi Dragon, anytime soon? :)
Thanks for the request. I might indeed do a Nakamichi Cassettedeck Review at some point.
Hi Christiaan. Thanks for the interesting comparisons. I am run a modified TD150, and am interested in the subtable platform for the Linn LP12 used in your video. Wonderful aesthetic. Can you say who it is made by? Any comments about it enhancing the process?
Hi Derek, that's the Modula Rack from Artesania's Organic Line. What this rack and the platform versions do for the sound is to make it more full-bodied than with most competing racks. In a way, these racks sound like no rack, as if placed on the floor (in terms of the lack of additional or detrimental aspects that furniture often brings), but with improvements in all audiophile parameters such as tightness, articulation, dynamics, expression, etcetera. If interested, read my extensive review on hifi-advice.com.
:)
Thank you Sir. Which amp are you using. You refer to it in your video but it’s not so clear. A great review.
In the system where I use the TD1601, I use the Ayon Spirit III integrated KT150 tube amp and the AVID Pulsare II phono stage.
Awesome!! Thank you so much. Will try this with my Thoren. All the best!!
How much is the tp92 have you tried it your know what it's like on the td160?
The TP92 is about 1200 euros. It could probably fit on the TD160 with the right arm board but I did not try this as the TP92 forms a complete, well-adjusted package with the TD1601.
Yeah it's about 900£ with tax shouldn't need an armboard it's the same length I think the holes the same? Do you know the diameter? I was looking at the uni pivot the tp82 only 500 £ I don't know what that's like is on the lower price model might be a good arm. Why does the original arm need high compliance cartridge? I would have thought its the other way around is the weight of the arm light than?@@hifi-advicehigh-endaudioeq3675
I have a thorens jubilee edition 147. Could anybody tell me how many were made and if it has any value? 🤗😺
Do you think this cartridge can also fit with the arm of my Thorens Td1500??
I've not heard the TD-1500 but I would definitely expect the AT33SA to work well in a wide range of medium-mass tonearms, including the TP-150 on the TD-1500 turntable.
How does it compare to the TD 1500 model?
Alas, I have not heard the TD1500.
The Thorens vs Rega planar 8 please
Request noted. Can't promise anything but I know there are many Rega enthusiasts out there and so I might indeed do a comparison someday.
Hi I have a new TD1601. It is made in Thailand. No more German units? I have several problems; 1) the sound of the left channel stop working (sometimes work and sometimes just stops). Could this be caused by a faulty cartridge? 2) when you start spinning the platter it wobbles so I have to wait until it gets the fulls speed to lower the arm. Is this normal? 3) I can not change speed (e.g., from 33 to 45) with a record playing, the stylus will start skipping and could ruin the record. Of course no need to to this, but in your video the needle stays on course when you change speeds. How do I solve this? I'll appreciate your opinions.
I checked and indeed, the TD1601 is made in Thailand. But it is designed in Germany and the process is supervised from there.
Your intermittent channel sound could be caused by any number of issues. I would suspect an interlink problem between the turntable and phono stage or between phono stage and preamp. There's only a single connection to the output PCB on the inside and it's soldered, so it is highly unlikely that this is caused in the turntable internally. The wobbling is a well-known issue with the classic turntables. I've owend several TD160's and some wobbled and some did not. It had a lot to do with how the springs have been adjusted but there can be other factors. In case of the TD1601 I was surprised to find it was so stable but in general, with a spring-suspended turntable, I would not advise to change speed while playing.
In regards of the wobbling, I advise you to check the sideways steel string tension as it will likely be a little too loose. See my review for more information.
Also, The arm lifting mechanism is very noisy. Is this normal?
Alas, this is normal. I'm not loving it, either.
How is the Td147 with the original tonearm?
Alas, I haven't heard it so I can't be sure. But I would imagine that it sounds very similar to the TD145 or TD160 with the TP16 arm with TP62/63 tube. And that would mean that even though there is a strong family resemblance, it sounds quite different from the TD1601. See my various HFA reviews for the details.
I’m curious, since you have an Avid preamp how would you compare the Thorens to the Avid Acutus which is considered to be a top tier suspended table?
While I have not yet heard the Acutus, I do own the Sequel SP and can tell you that it outperforms the Thorens in several areas, although this depends on the arm and cartridge, of course. The Thorens is lively, open, and lyrical and, for a Thorens sub-chassis turntable, remarkably solid and impactful. In general, though, the AVID's bass performance and overall solidity, stature, authority, texture, and dynamic slam are on another level.
Honestly for that dollar amount I would look towards vpi seriously imho
If you ask me, that remains to be seen:-) Alas, I have yet to come in the possession of a VPI turntable in order to find out. When I do get my hands on one, I will definitely make a comparison video.
@@hifi-advicehigh-endaudioeq3675 okay
I subScribed just to help you reach the 1000. But think turntables are obsolete.
Thanks for your support!
Yeah well for me it was a no no,that 2 Point gimbal. Rudimentary
In this video, I explain all about the Thorens TD1601's operational aspects and how it performs in relation to the TD150 Super, TD160mkII, TD125mkII, and the Linn LP12.
So I would have to spend €4,500 So I would have to spend €4,500 on a THORENS MADE IN TAIWAN... NOT EVEN DEAD 🤣😂🤣 AT LEAST IT WAS MADE IN CHINA 🤔😲😱😂
It's just a shame that it is made in China. That's the reason I would never buy it! Long live the LP12
Yes, alas, that goes for more and more equipment these days... Many of the revered high-end brands are either (partially) made in PRC, or worse, owned by Chinese investor companies. But the Chinese are certainly capable of working to very high production standards. The days of crappy equipment are long behind us.
No matter how good it performs it has one of the most ugly tonearms ever!
@starlightgrecording559
Hifi-Advice High-End Audio Equipment Reviews***
From Gerard Stroh!!!
I Have the Same Audio Technica AT33sa MC Phono Cartridge!!!
I Have This Same MC Cartridge Mounted on A Vintage Pioneer PL-600 Quartz Lock Direct Drive Fully Automatic Turntable!!!
The Arm Lift is Also Motorised Like the Thorens and You Have to Let it Finish is operation When You Hit or Press Start Button and The Eject Function on the Pioneer!!!
I Have A Fully Adjustible Audio Technica Headshell and My Preamp is A Project Phono Box RS XLR Balance Preamp!!!!
My Stereo Audiophile System Sounds Awesome!!!
I Also Have A Vintage JVC QL-Y5F Fully Automatic Quartz Lock Direct Drive Turntable With the Same Headshell thats on My Pioneer!!!
Bye From Gerard Stroh!!!
Hi and thank you for the review.
I have a question relating to the setting of the anti skating, how do you do that since there is no numerical value associated with the graduations of the cursor? The documentation speaks of the use of an adjustment record without further clarification. I have the same question concerning the adjustment of the VTA.
Regards
This is not the ideal forum for extensive advice (please post a comment on the HFA website for that) but I'll give you the cliff notes. Anti-Skating can be set by ear. If one channel has sibilance (loud peaks, vocals), simply turn the dial such that the distortion moves to the center or disappears. If it goes to the other channel, you went too far. VTA is partly a science and partly a matter of taste. Note that it does tie in with the VTF (as the cantilever bulges more with higher weight). Start out horizontally level and try the arm a little higher and a little lower. Higher (gimbal raised) will yield a leaner balance with treble more pronounced while lower (gimbal lowered) will yield a fuller, thicker, warmer, more relaxed sound. The ideal position is usually in-between, often right on the edge of the sound tilting too much. As mentioned, there's much more to it but these are the basics.
@@cpunter Thank you for your kind response. Sorry, I didn't noticed your web links, I will watch this very carefully. This turntable seems to be a marvelous precision mechanism.
Is the bearing spindle the same diameter as the old one td 60 can you get the inner platter and what's it made from
Note that the TD160(MkII) axles came in two different diameters: 7mm and 10mm. If the TD1601 is the same as the classic, it likely is the wider 10mm. The sub-platter is now locked in place, so I can't check the diameter. This is done in order to prevent transport damage and potential damage by uncareful removal or reinsertion of the steel axle or the bronze bearing. The bearing sits on a Delrin disc, which is a brand name for Polyoxymethylene or POM. The load on the bearing is very low and the bearing is essentially maintenance-free. Thorens expects the oil does not need changing for at least 10 years. For more info, see my in-depth review www.hifi-advice.com/blog/turntable-and-accessories-reviews/turntable-reviews/thorens-td1601-turntable-part1/.