Great video Rokas and Rob! I learned a lot from the video and it’s scary how rampant that kind of behavior is in martial arts. Speaking from my own experience of being excommunicated from the people that I knew for close to 20 years, to then be unfriended on Facebook and dropped was a really big eye opener to the cultish behavior that was right in front of me. Thanks again and keep up the hard work. Be safe, be well, keep training hard!
You should do a chart of categories for fake martial arts masters (like goofy fool, predatory behavior, cult leader, and criminally violent just to name a few)
My favorite thing about kungfu is that you’ll see random so called masters who’ll get taken down by people with no training then see some random old guy who does this a hobby or to work actually doing impressive displays of his arts
My favourite thing about people talking bs about kung fu is how none of you will ever go to schools near shaolin or wudang and call out somebody, to teach you a lesson of humiliation
I studied under Prather's people and was gang stalked by some of their goons when I pointed out the harm that was done. The social anxiety and trauma that left on me was significant. I have never joined another dojo from a lack of trust for these reasons.
It’s fascinating how often people talk about trauma these days. Most of my life people would have called what you went through stress. Not necessarily a bad thing to change how we describe things. I just think it’s interesting.
I know it's not exactly Rokas' or Rob's lane, but I think it's important to note that the comparing of the bullshido guys to Tony Robbins or Gary V might give folks the impression that the mainstream self-help industry isn't also made up of con artists. Those guys are also full of shit, just slightly less dangerous. That said, this was a great conversation - the grocery store scenario is a great way to explain how these cons work.
@@ChuckSeville All I know is I can’t hear the name without thinking of the Whose Line Is It Anyway? episode with the Scenes From a Hat segment asking for “Other gifts the Wise Men could have given baby Jesus”. One of the examples was Wayne Brady claiming, “With this series of motivational tapes by Tony Robbins, the Messiah will lead his people!” The other example I remember was Ryan Stiles declaring, “The Child will derive hours of entertainment from this, the novelty singing bass!”
I love these discussions, because I practice martial science/arts for two primary reasons: 1) to prolong my life (longevity) and 2) to minimize self injury ... outside of that, there's no reason to focus on harming others but self defense is an important need so a vital 3rd reason to learn. I know the meaning of a McDojo personally because my very first Taekwondo school was run by a fraudulant grandmaster which my new (legit) Taekwondo master made me aware was a total sham and would "kick his ass if [he] ever sees him in person." Nothing but respect for Master O of Kyung Ki Taekwondo. I love what Rob is doing and everyone involved in this ongoing necessary project to enlighten people to make better decisions about who they choose to learn from. Bravo.
I love that your thumbnail is a fake blue belt. Like who would lie about being a blue belt? You know someone would, but I’m just saying it’s a good lol.
One of the most interesting things is you can see him doubt, if he really should say the secret flaw to his death star powers. The momment he try to process he is a fraud and his ego goes in his defense, even at the cost of giving a free cryptonite present to his imaginary enemies on NATIONAL tv... like if superman was so insecure that prefers to not look weak never at the cost of making himself useless. Yeah that moment really saved me alot of things in my life.
See, Aikido has gotten a lot of crap, but since leaving and training other styles I realized I definitely learned to roll, I definitely learned some wrist locks, and I DEFINITELY learned to breakfall. These guys are delusional and I feel bad for the students
@@manlyadvice1789 yes there is. Aikido gets a lot of shit from people that have no experience with it, they just don’t understand what they are seeing. Aikido teaches you to blend with incoming forces and redirect it, not using muscular strength. Both judo and jujitsu rely heavily on strength. Aikido is definitely something that takes much longer to be proficient in, judo and jujitsu doesn’t take that long to be able to use it fairly well, so you usually don’t see many people with aikido skills that can actually be used real world.
Great video Rokas and Rob. When me and my wife were looking for a studio for our 5 years old to learn Ju-Jitsu and found a place we book a trial lesson to see if he would like it and had a long conversation with the Sensei and he explained everything, that all instructors had a DBS check (criminal record check what is mandatory if you want to work with children in the UK even if the parents are present at all times), where qualified instructors by the Governing Body and had first aids. But even with all that information, we decided to do our own research into the school and their Governing Body because we wanted to be sure if it was a safe school for our son. Now I practice there too but I always keep my own critical thinking. Most of the guys there dont like BJJ and it is not good compared to our Ju-Jistu but this week I told them I started going to BJJ to see how it was and Im enjoying both.
I'm surprised that Frank Dux didn't make it on any one's list. I will say this though even though Dux was a fraud at least because of him we have one of the greatest martial arts movies of all time. Maybe that was his saving grace from making a list lol. Any ways great episode loved the collaboration between both of you.
"I know the Dim Mak. My hands are registered as deadly weapons in 4 states. My dad was a CIA operative but I never met them. He killed so many guys in Vietnam." lol
Ego is a huge problem in MMA. Too many people trying to knock out sparring partners or people who train just to go out and get in street fights on purpose
Loving the video so far Rokas! My question is why would George Dillman even agree to the Nat Geo special? Did he really think the “no touch knockout” was gonna work? Is it a case of “all publicity is good publicity?”
Dillman supposedly did testing with some University . People hooked up to machines. Guess he got some good results. So to your question I think yes he does believe it.
Well some guy on Stan Lee's superhuman did the same thing his name was Tom something I think? Called "The Human Stun Gun." Basically same no touch knockout concept, same stooges etc. Basically the producers set up some type of machine and it did register "something." Which is why I believe they aired the episode lol Edit I googled it his name is Tom Cameron and he was called the human stun gun by Ripley believe it or not.
Your discussion from about 25:30 - 37:00 is so profound. Everyone should listen to that carefully. I sort of fell into a semi-cult in my early 20's and after I looked more deeply at it, and abandoned (most of) those ideas, I really studied critical thinking, social pressure, and how to resist being lead astray by charlatans. Most important journey of my life, by far. Later, I had the experience of training under an Aikido sensei just as he was making the transition from really skilled martial artist to a Narcissist with delusions of godhood. One day after a seminar he sat down at the front of the class and his students sat around him like so many kids marveling at a magician. One asked “What do you think is the most important thing?” He replied with one word, “truth”. Being more analytical and skeptical than most people, I wanted to ask “What do you mean by Truth? Are we talking about natural truth? Spiritual truth? Social truth, like integrity?” I got as far as “What do you mean…?” when he interrupted me and scolded me, calling me a troublemaker. I nodded and shut up, and at the first opportunity went to the dressing room, changed my clothes and never went back. Over the next few years the other people I was studying with came to realize what a douchebag and a charlatan he was- and a very dangerous one, because he truly was a gifted martial artist. The more I go through life the more I realize that the old saw “ power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.” is one of the wisest things ever said.
If you do a martial art and don’t spar and not sparring like they do in aikido then it’s pretty useless, even when I did king fu we would spar each other and test what worked.
Every Judo Dojo is like this by necessity. The reason Judo is so legit is that you absolutely cannot teach it without pressure testing. Any technique that isn't effective has been discarded decades ago. All that remains are effective and intuitive combat forms.
Hi Rokas, great to have you back. Congrats to the marriage :) when you're done with Flowers for Algernon I have another book recommendation for you. You mentioned that your critical approach sometimes makes you miserable and that it influences how you see people. I can wholeheartedly recommend "HumanKind" by the historian Ruter Bregman. It's a historical outlook on the human nature and it's core premise is, that homo sapiens are morally "good", meaning friendly, social, altruistic, helpful, happy, etc. I'm admittedly biased since I studied history, so this book is my jam already, but it really is one of the best explanations on human behavior I've ever read and it heavily influenced how I see people and the world. To me it proved that being critical and being positive aren't opposites, but the same thing, since it's often way harder to believe in the good in people and assuming the worst is an easy way out.
I had this argument for years with a friend when we were younger. He would argue that humans are inherently evil, and I would argue humans were inherently good. Really smart guy, hard to get the better of him even though biology brings us a lot of evidence. I've gotten a more nuanced outlook but I still argue that while humans are capable of both, most of us are inclined toward good.
Between the two of y'all's videos, it's made really rethink a lot about martial arts schools. I feel bad for some of my friends who have dedicated decades to something that might ultimately be bullshit. In many cases, they are still competent fighters, but theyre not as good as they could of been if they hadn't been sucked into the cult.
I’ve also heard it’s a bad sign if a martial arts school/instructor goes seeking students. The philosophy is that if a school/teacher is actually good, then potential students will come to them, not the other way around. Edit- I’ve been given food for thought in the replies.
@karaoconnolraliasraidra But that is the problem, it is a philosophy. In the American context - and this film is almost entirely American - there are people who make their living by training others. This applies to Martial Arts and to Sports, Pilates, Yoga etc. These people aren't necessarily known to the wider community, so if they wait for people to find them, they may starve. Once a martial artist is established and well known, then they will pick up students without a problem. In China and Japan and Okinawa it was not like this, at least in the past. In the past, of course, martial arts were not open to everyone. Chinese Arts belonged to families or villages (e.g.; Chen Tai Chi), Okinawan Karate also might belong to a family or community. Japanese Arts originated in warfare and were linked to specific warriors who were - usually - in service to a particular Lord and his family. In each of these instances, the art would only be passed on to a limited number of people, either family/village members or to other warriors in service to the same lord. In those historical contexts, the teaching was restricted and there were incentives not to spread the teachings. In the modern context, even excellent teachers with legitimate background may need to teach publicly in order to support themselves and in order to maintain their art.
@@charleshayes2528 I see. I hadn’t stopped to consider the differences in culture and eras. Maybe it’s better to say good teachers will gain positive word of mouth.
@@karaoconnoraliasraidra I absolutely agree! However, the word of mouth may be restricted to an "in-crowd", so that the Karate community may know who to go to to get advanced teaching in Karate but may not know anything about who to trust in HEMA. Thankfully, this is becoming less common and the walls between various arts are more transparent. But . . . the average non-Martial Artist might have no idea who to trust with the teaching of their children.
Great video Rokas I have a story about Idan Abolnick. In 2012 he came to the company i was working at to give a demonstration. He started off with a BS story about arriving in South Africa and how he killed 3 hijackers at the airport. I was doing Aikido at the time and i mentioned it to him. He then proceeded to tell me how useless Aikido was and how i should come train with him. One of his instructors hit me really hard with an open palm strike to my chest (totally unprovoked - presumably trying to show how good his Krav Maga system was). The Krav Maga demonstration was actually quite good, but i was put off by their arrogance. I actually agree with him that Aikido is useless in a real fight, but i am always put off when one instructor mockingly states how bad another martial art is.
That was a super interesting listen. Some real crazy characters in the Martial Arts world! I thought the 'ignorance is bliss' idea you started to elaborate on was really interesting. I think anyone who has crossed over from a TMA to a combat sport has experienced this thought process. It kind of reminds me of the scene in the Wizard of Oz when they look behind the curtain and find that the wizard is a fraud. When you have this kind of realisation nothing's ever the same again. It would be cool to hear you do a deep dive on this topic.
Once upon a time George Dillman was a ranked and respected martial artist. He was Mohamed Ali's body guard for a while too. He was a legit stunt performer and a legit person. He was Elvis' Sensei for a bit. I have no idea what happened in between him getting with Pricilla Presley and what we see today that turned him into a bizarre Dragon Ball Z-Esque Larper. But I'd love to know the story sometime.
Maybe getting those bodyguard jobs had more to do with being convincing than having the skills? As to Elvis, I love what he's helped change in society, and how he brought folks to karate, but he was at best an ordinary beginner, and easily exploited.
@@29maurice Dillman had some legit skills in the ring. The problem with the film is that the presenters rightly disapprove of what Dillman represents now and retroject that disapproval into his past. History shows plenty of people who were very skilled in all sorts of ways and who eventually went off the rails. Their end doesn't mean that their beginning wasn't genuine.
Some thoughts: 1. Watching way to many Rokas and Rob videos to actualy know witch names will come up in the list. 2. I've trained Aikido for a short period as class at Uni. Something was alwayas "off" about it. Now I'm sucking at Judo (again, thanks, Rob, Icy and Seth for inspiring me to go on this fantastic and bruised jurney) and it feels great. 3. Sad reality, eaven if You have CPR/firtst aid certified instructors we won't be able to save every one. I lost two off my friends, one from heart attack (congenital defect) after a warm up in kick boxing class, and second from brain aneurysm pop during wrestling trainning. There was a swift reaction from CPR trained professionals in both cases, but there were not able to do anything. 4. Sveikinimai iš Lenkijos Rokas! Sorry for TLDR comment.
McDojoLife is a cool channel, I like the humour Rob uses when covering this stuff that and his coverage is solid. Yep the Cult of personality has become a big issue in general it's not just the Arts these days, I say that as somebody that is expressly not pleased with general direction this stuff has gone in overall. The take about not liking certain legitimate Martial arts personalities I'm a bit split about, As you can still be an exemplary martial artist, but the have personality of a rock and the ego of hot air balloon which can lead to people saying stuff that they just shouldn't and deservedly should be called out for as it's all about staying humble. Not talking about you Rokas, you seem like the kind of guy that is just constantly chill so yeah.
Good content. My worst fear, as martial arts instructor, is to have any sort of echo chamber effect. Gotta keep ot real, smart, current, safe, effective, and pressure tested. And no crazy instructors
The best way to con a person is to actually know what you're talking about. As 80's wrestling bookers would often say, "If I say A and B and both are true, why would you believe C is bullshit?". If you base your con on the exaggeration of truth, or build up legitimate accolades, the appeal to authority will set in.
Count Dante! I lived in Chicago back then! I was a scrawny, smart kid and was getting bullied. So, I'd see his ads in comic books and think, hmmm. That summer, I was taught to box by my Cherokee grandfather. He was the heavyweight boxing champion of his USN Fleet in World War II, so he knew his boxing. It took one fight that fall using the boxing techniques taught by my grandfather for all of the bullying to end. So, no more thoughts of Count Dante! Great video gents, thank you!
Piano teacher here. I find it very interesting to see the parallels between the world of martial arts instruction and music instruction. Fake teachers, con artists and the like. I've seen music instructors take advantage of the fact that most of their clients don't know the first thing about music or how to practice, the terminology, etc. and will put zero effort into helping students progress. No curriculum, no goals, no notes, no homework. Just milking the clock and collecting the checks. Basically music McDojo teachers. What is frustrating is that teachers like this wouldn't exist without the demand. Just like many parents sign up their kids to a McDojo because they want them to have "the experience" without having to work hard or learn self discipline, parents also sign up the kids for music lessons that are specifically watered down and "fun", i.e. no practice, no study of technique, no theory. Just easy feel-good times and constant affirmations of the child's "brilliance". This is a great way to ruin a child and give them a horribly false sense of self confidence, setting them up ultimately for failure. I've seen this type of instruction widespread at almost every level of institution except for university. They actually have to have curriculum and standards there.
You know, mentioning falling in the trap of a cult, i was passing through a rough time in my life so i wanted ti learn yoga so i searched for the best teacher or institute for that, so i found it, found the most organized and the biggest institute in my country and it was n still one of the biggest around the world so i went in and the yoga is like made into levels so i started the first program and looking at all the other members and specially the advanced students and they looked like they were under a spell of the guru, and the guru is in india and teaches online, i realized they were a cult and i researched the institute and also found out that i was right it was a religeous cult, but they still taught the best meditation and yoga techniques so i stuck around learned what i wanted and got out and they tried to contact me a lot later on but i resisted going back and building on what i learned from them i started researching and teaching myself the rest of it
What I learned from a leftist security services work where we often work at bars and deal with drunken ppl, that if it gets physical (often de-escalation works best but some times it doesn't) non ammunition of former combat sports training my coworkers had really helped in a street fight. Sure it helps a little with strength and reaction time. But when it comes down to it there area few issues. 1. And most ppl don't realize that, humans usually don't want to do real damage to others especially if you are sober and the other is not, so you for sure don't just want to tage a swing on a person. 2. Street just doesn't go by the rules of martial arts or any kind of combat sport for that matter. 3. Fights don't just stop, so you gotta have a plan and technique to go a step further and salve the situation. We have training in a very simple technique that relays heavy on basic wrestling thing to have like a self defense that won't do damage to the other person, but it is very basic and anything beyond that won't even find usage in a real conflict.
This is great, just started the video. As a small feedback. Maybe you should record yourself in a little more relaxing setting, as McDojoLife is doing. You would probably feel that there's less pressure on you , and therefore be more relaxed. At least it would for me. And as a viewer I feel that it looks better.
Thanks for the feedback Marco. The problem for me was that at the time of filming I had a back injury so I was forced to stand and constantly had pain :)
Steven Seagal does indeed "ex-communicate" people who stand up to him. He tried telling Michael Bisping how to punch because he didn't realise who he was. When the count was having none of it, he was thrown off the movie.
Great video Rokas. If you want to see Aikido techniques working with fully resisting ukes right from the start, without using force, come to Portugal and train Portuguese Personal Defense. Vitor Gomes studied kickboxing, Muai Thai, BJJ, JJ, Aikido, etc and altered the techniques to work in the modern world. For me Vitor Gomes is the portuguese Bruce Lee. For forty years he perfected the techniques and made them work in street scenarios. They train for controling the oponent. In todays world we have laws to follow and we can't hurt people unless we are atacked by more than one. Proporcionality defense. We can't use brutality. In Lisbon you can sparr with Hugo Silva and check it for yourself.
@10:43 re: Dale Brown. Is that Jhoon Rhee in the middle (pioneer of Tae Kwon Do in the Washington DC area "nobody bothers me")? Certainly looks like him (there are lots of pictures of Jhoon Rhee and Bruce Lee together, they trained together apparently)
Rokas' guest misspoke in how he used the term excommunication--unless he meant it in a loose metaphor. Excommunication as used in the ancient sacramental churches is not cultish but medicinal and, very significantly (going against his definition), all communication and interaction does not necessarily cease--often only denial of the sacraments, the reception of which implies solidarity of belief. Nobody is going to drive you away from attending a Divine Liturgy, prevent you seeking private counsel with the priest, or make a scene over you attending parish socials just because you are excommunicated unless there are aggravating circumstances. There are automatic excommunications for certain sins that make you ineligible to receive the Eucharist, for example, but you may participate in all other aspects of a worship service.
At roughly 1:00:00, totally agree. I have a student, and never rose above purple at my highest. Made that clear from the off, and demand I'm not called sensei or sifu. I haven't earned that title yet in my eyes.
I had to leave that dojo 2x. First I left and did some Aikido. I enjoyed my Aikido school but saw weaknesses in the training and it was bad for my back health(breakfalls daily unlike occasionally in Karate). Then I went back to my old dojo and after a few years it got toxic again. Lucky I had about 90% of the system ( Goju Karate ). At this point I had my schools and students. I went my own way.
The bowing is not cult....it is culture. However the cult part was more how we trained and with who. They acted as of they had the only answers. Also they tried to control the questions too.
Wait - did you just suggest that Gary V and Tony Robbins are safe people to listen to? Cause they're pretty close to as bad as Fabia and all the others
Take a look at "Dr" Soke Rod Sachornoski. Master of Jujutsu, Judo, Karate, Bujutsu and a never ending pile of arts. Also known as the guy who takes full power shots to the nuts
1:40:50 RE: Yashida Kim: " The delusion is what is making him happy in life. And most of the time there's nothing wrong with that- except for the fact that he's teaching people utter garbage." I loved your Discussion of how being skeptical and analytical can isolate you sometimes, and "Flowers for Algernon." Great book. I can _so_ relate. There was a movie made of it, too simply called "Charly". Don't know how strictly it sticks to the book, but it sounds similar. You guys have a way of casually dropping really profound nuggets, _much_ more profound and actually useful than any of the gurus in martial arts or, alternative health ideas, or religious leaders who are trying _so hard_ to be profound, and _think_ they're succeeding at it. I'd love to talk to you some time. Do either of you live anywhere near Denver Colorado?
The ones I laugh at the most are when the students participate in the fraud. Anyone with 2 brain cells to rub together can clearly see they are going along with it in the hopes people will believe it to be legit. Then when they get called on it by an actual trained fighter, the excuses as to why it didn’t work are hysterical.
The truth of the matter when confronting those who are in a cult (regardless of the type of cult) is that their indoctrination is built on three things, contingency, redundancy and conflict. As a being that grew up in a cult the most important of three to be aware of when attempting to help someone in a cult realise, is the conflict aspect. In religious cults there is always a "them vs us" mentality. Anyone not with us is against us. They expect to be mocked and ridiculed and attacked. This mentality is also very prevalent in the martial arts cult of personality garbage. So the best way to approach these people who are indoctrinated, is with kindness, charity and understanding. By getting them to ask themselves the questions and by being non confrontational about it, you have your best chance to not trigger the contingencies and redundancies. Where the approach is effective, the cultists essentially "defuse" themselves. If you don't push back where they expect you to push back, if you don't rise to their bait, if you are charitable instead of ridiculing, they really don't know how to respond. You also circumvent the "the world outside the cult is cold and hostile and the only safety is inside" kind of mentality or variations of that so often seems people want to remain. There are fundamental aspects of cult mentality that it is important to learn about so you can avoid the pitfalls when talking to people in cults of any kind.
A question for Rob: do you have a link or something on SOP for teachers interacting with students? As an example, when I used to coach youth hockey one of the rules for us coaches was to not enter the dressing room with kids unless a second adult (not of the same family) was present. If there was only one coach, he would wait outside the room with the door open. Common sense is nice, but having formal written rules of conduct that protect both the kids and the adults is better.
There is no sop for martial arts. There’s no governing board for martial arts as a whole. There may be some for specific schools or systems, but I’m unaware if there is.
I'm friends with Ashida Kim. Yeah, the stuff is fantasy, but I always loved his undying obsession with martial arts and in a way it shares that fire. I don't know why I adore him, he's a genuinely nice guy. Anyone worth their salt can see what is fake and I doubt they fall for the Dim Mak, and then begin to interpret this guy like I do. He doesn't run a school. Otherwise, I'd be like wtf man.
Hey, I've been a HEMA instructor for about a decade now, but frankly if you're interested in any of HEMA for "practicality", as in the application, that's very far from the objective. Also there is no HEMA martial art, it covers an enormous selection of martial practices. A more interesting premise is if our experimental archeology pressure testing is legitimate
@m.a.k.8618 With respect, if you are looking at Kendo or HEMA for practicality, you have misunderstood them both. 1) Kendo is a modern Budo with a sport aspect. It is based on older styles of Kenjutsu and Kendo (of the Tokugawa) era, but it is not quite the same. 2) Kendo - as a competitive art - involves a bamboo sword/Shinai, plus solid wooden or metal swords for Kata practice and for the related art of Iaido. People do not carry swords anymore and if they did, they would probably get arrested. 3) Even if you have real skills, a sword doesn't stand much chance against a gunman at a distance or in a confined space. Kendo is now about personal development, study and enjoyment - with a competitive element - and even those who emphasise the original practicality of the old school swordsmanship generally accept that they are keeping alive an old tradition for its own sake and for what they learn from it and not because they expect to engage in sword duels in the main street. Of course, Kendo can teach distance and timing and I know of Kendoka who were able to use those skills to avoid injury when attacked. (BTW Aikido techniques are based on sword movements, so there is a potential carryover.) Don't be mistaken, I have played Kendo and loved it and would recommend it for someone who wants to get into an older art. I also know how dangerous live blades (Shinken) can be. But that is not the focus or the intent of Kendo. But if you want practicality - and by "practicality" I assume you mean self defence? (cos nobody ain't gonna let you take no sword into the ring in MMA - that isn't in the mix) - then you want something that addresses the kind of attacks you are likely to face. There are plenty of systems out there that do that. Kendo doesn't claim to be one of them. I have deliberately avoided speaking about HEMA because, as someone else pointed out, there is not one art. HEMA refers to Historical European Martial Arts - plural. So someone doing archery is doing HEMA, someone doing European Sword Drills, from whichever period is doing HEMA, someone doing genuine Quarter Staff (not the movie BS) is doing HEMA. Traditional boxing and wrestling could also be a HEMA and would certainly have practical aspects. So it depends on which art you are talking about. It is just the same as Eastern Arts. Horseback Archery or the use of Chinese Polearms isn't going to be practical in the modern urban context; forms of Karate, Kung Fu and Jiu-Jutsu which were specifically designed for close quarter conflict and civil self defence might certainly be. (Look for Patrick McCarthy and Jesse Enkamp on why most forms of Karate were probably designed to be used against the surprise attack of a mugger rather than a stand up battle or even a street fight.) If you carry an umbrella, you could adapt some techniques from martial arts to help you use it in self defence - I wouldn't recommend trying to emulate Japanese or HEMA sword cutting techniques - as the umbrella won't stand it.
At the 14 minute mark: THIS! I did martial arts for 15 years - started when I was 46. Ostensibly, I left because my knees and shoulders were giving out. But another reason that I left is exactly what you are talking about: I had some great teachers, and some not-so-great. Some of them were students of Dillman - I kid you not. But all the "masters" believed that they had the right to tell me how to live my life, and I had an obligation to obey. FFS I was older than a lot of them!
Glad you put this out Rokas- cult behavior is fascinating. Hassan’s book uses his B.I.T.E. model. I pray you are healing from your injury. Please update us and let us know how you are….
One thing he forgot about talking about the grocery store comparison is refrigeration, of course, you can go get a warm soda in the store, but do you really want a warm soda on a hot day while running errands? Plus for those of us with control issues buying six means we're probably drinking six. Thinking like that is exactly how I gained 60 pounds, why buy the smaller more expensive one when I can get six times the amount for pennies mrore?
@@MartialArtsJourneyI was a member at 12-13 and it saved my life! If you study the book it has real street fighting techniques in it! Got into it with a bully after 9 months of humiliation, tried to rip out his throat(a Count Dante move) the bully 💩 and pissed himself! That was the last fight I had, that was May of 1974, I'm 63 now! I was 13 at the time!
I think the first thing you should look for in a coach/sensei is if he believes his art is the only truth. If he does, he is brainwashed and is gonna lack what it takes to show how to defend yourself in real situations.
Great video Rokas and Rob! I learned a lot from the video and it’s scary how rampant that kind of behavior is in martial arts. Speaking from my own experience of being excommunicated from the people that I knew for close to 20 years, to then be unfriended on Facebook and dropped was a really big eye opener to the cultish behavior that was right in front of me.
Thanks again and keep up the hard work.
Be safe, be well, keep training hard!
Thanks Karate Chris! Let's keep owning our journeys together 😊👊
@@MartialArtsJourney Yes sir! Always training. Always spreading the good of the martial arts.
thank you for the support
@@McDojoLife Thank you for all you do, exposing these people to the world.
ua-cam.com/video/FBS67jgfVFI/v-deo.html
You should do a chart of categories for fake martial arts masters (like goofy fool, predatory behavior, cult leader, and criminally violent just to name a few)
My favorite thing about kungfu is that you’ll see random so called masters who’ll get taken down by people with no training then see some random old guy who does this a hobby or to work actually doing impressive displays of his arts
Fight Commentary Breakdowns puts it best, where "Kung Fu hobbyists" are all doing the best most interesting work and "masters" frequently don't
It's about ego. The worst ones will have the biggest 'bark'
Well I mean I've never seen that and quite honestly people who know king Fu and are especially good at it will kill you before you blink..
My favourite thing about people talking bs about kung fu is how none of you will ever go to schools near shaolin or wudang and call out somebody, to teach you a lesson of humiliation
@@bison962I actually did. I went to one with my student who fought in the ufc. They kinda admitted it was bs
I live in Brazil and, for 5 years, I was a victim of a fake martial art (Pa-kua International League - not to mistake for the Chinese Baghua Zhang).
These guys are everywhere. 🤔
This is the collaboration I’ve been waiting for! Thank you Rokas and Rob, really enjoyed this 🤙🏽
It's easier to fool someone than to convince them they have been fooled
I studied under Prather's people and was gang stalked by some of their goons when I pointed out the harm that was done. The social anxiety and trauma that left on me was significant. I have never joined another dojo from a lack of trust for these reasons.
It’s fascinating how often people talk about trauma these days. Most of my life people would have called what you went through stress. Not necessarily a bad thing to change how we describe things. I just think it’s interesting.
@@michaelm9710 Their Victimhood is competing with so many others these days that the landscape has completely shifted. Sensationalism sells.
I know it's not exactly Rokas' or Rob's lane, but I think it's important to note that the comparing of the bullshido guys to Tony Robbins or Gary V might give folks the impression that the mainstream self-help industry isn't also made up of con artists. Those guys are also full of shit, just slightly less dangerous.
That said, this was a great conversation - the grocery store scenario is a great way to explain how these cons work.
Good point. I'm by far not a fan of Tony Robbins and consider him a dangerous character too
They were just examples of who people go to for self help seminars
@@ChuckSeville All I know is I can’t hear the name without thinking of the Whose Line Is It Anyway? episode with the Scenes From a Hat segment asking for “Other gifts the Wise Men could have given baby Jesus”. One of the examples was Wayne Brady claiming, “With this series of motivational tapes by Tony Robbins, the Messiah will lead his people!” The other example I remember was Ryan Stiles declaring, “The Child will derive hours of entertainment from this, the novelty singing bass!”
I love these discussions, because I practice martial science/arts for two primary reasons: 1) to prolong my life (longevity) and 2) to minimize self injury ... outside of that, there's no reason to focus on harming others but self defense is an important need so a vital 3rd reason to learn. I know the meaning of a McDojo personally because my very first Taekwondo school was run by a fraudulant grandmaster which my new (legit) Taekwondo master made me aware was a total sham and would "kick his ass if [he] ever sees him in person." Nothing but respect for Master O of Kyung Ki Taekwondo.
I love what Rob is doing and everyone involved in this ongoing necessary project to enlighten people to make better decisions about who they choose to learn from. Bravo.
Awesome conversation with two channels I love! Thanks guys, made my downtime at work much more interesting lol
I am almost 70 yrs old and trained in several arts since my mid-teens. For me, Boxing is number one and I encouraged my son to train in boxing
Mix boxing with stand up grappling like judo and you have a very potent mix
Mix boxing with stand up grappling like judo and you have a very potent mix
My grandpa was pro he taught me boxing at a very young age
This is a great collaboration guys and worth the 2 hours running time 💯
Yo Rokas welcome back! Loved the crossover content you did with Steven Strangles!
Thanks Christopher!
@@MartialArtsJourney and this video was worth the wait!
This was such a great conversation. It was educational and entertaining thanks Rob and Rokas!
🙏
You are very humble Rokus. you have that Aikido vibe. (compliment)
I love that your thumbnail is a fake blue belt. Like who would lie about being a blue belt? You know someone would, but I’m just saying it’s a good lol.
Number 1 is icy mike. He isn’t made of ice. Checkmate.
Damn. That is true now that I think about it.
If george drillman makes the wrong prediction of pregnant woman’s baby, it would be because the lady had her right toe up at the time.
😂
BWAHAHAHA!!!
Lol
Dillmans first comment was that " the sceptic was a total nonbeliever* lmao
"Oh no, a nonbeliver! Now my kamehame won't work. I'm defeated!" 😁
One of the most interesting things is you can see him doubt, if he really should say the secret flaw to his death star powers. The momment he try to process he is a fraud and his ego goes in his defense, even at the cost of giving a free cryptonite present to his imaginary enemies on NATIONAL tv... like if superman was so insecure that prefers to not look weak never at the cost of making himself useless. Yeah that moment really saved me alot of things in my life.
"Grasshopper, contemplate the hidden wisdom that water is wet."
See, Aikido has gotten a lot of crap, but since leaving and training other styles I realized I definitely learned to roll, I definitely learned some wrist locks, and I DEFINITELY learned to breakfall. These guys are delusional and I feel bad for the students
Great points! The break fall is seriously underrated
Same it has some great benefits along with the less
Is there anything that aikido does BETTER than judo or jiu-jitsu?
@@manlyadvice1789 yes there is. Aikido gets a lot of shit from people that have no experience with it, they just don’t understand what they are seeing. Aikido teaches you to blend with incoming forces and redirect it, not using muscular strength. Both judo and jujitsu rely heavily on strength. Aikido is definitely something that takes much longer to be proficient in, judo and jujitsu doesn’t take that long to be able to use it fairly well, so you usually don’t see many people with aikido skills that can actually be used real world.
The effectiveness of Aikido will always depend on the teacher you have and the lineage they came down.
I love Rob's work and Rokas is such an inspiration, showing that we can change our minds! Wonderful content, you both!!
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@@MartialArtsJourney
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thank you for that
@@McDojoLife 🤜🤛 🤝
Great video Rokas and Rob.
When me and my wife were looking for a studio for our 5 years old to learn Ju-Jitsu and found a place we book a trial lesson to see if he would like it and had a long conversation with the Sensei and he explained everything, that all instructors had a DBS check (criminal record check what is mandatory if you want to work with children in the UK even if the parents are present at all times), where qualified instructors by the Governing Body and had first aids. But even with all that information, we decided to do our own research into the school and their Governing Body because we wanted to be sure if it was a safe school for our son.
Now I practice there too but I always keep my own critical thinking. Most of the guys there dont like BJJ and it is not good compared to our Ju-Jistu but this week I told them I started going to BJJ to see how it was and Im enjoying both.
I'm surprised that Frank Dux didn't make it on any one's list. I will say this though even though Dux was a fraud at least because of him we have one of the greatest martial arts movies of all time. Maybe that was his saving grace from making a list lol. Any ways great episode loved the collaboration between both of you.
"I know the Dim Mak. My hands are registered as deadly weapons in 4 states. My dad was a CIA operative but I never met them. He killed so many guys in Vietnam." lol
Ego is a huge problem in MMA. Too many people trying to knock out sparring partners or people who train just to go out and get in street fights on purpose
Loving the video so far Rokas! My question is why would George Dillman even agree to the Nat Geo special? Did he really think the “no touch knockout” was gonna work? Is it a case of “all publicity is good publicity?”
Dillman supposedly did testing with some University . People hooked up to machines. Guess he got some good results. So to your question I think yes he does believe it.
That's a great question. I guess he really believed it 😊
Kudos to the CICAP, Italian equivalent of CSICOP, who were the guys testing him in the program.
Well some guy on Stan Lee's superhuman did the same thing his name was Tom something I think? Called "The Human Stun Gun." Basically same no touch knockout concept, same stooges etc. Basically the producers set up some type of machine and it did register "something." Which is why I believe they aired the episode lol
Edit I googled it his name is Tom Cameron and he was called the human stun gun by Ripley believe it or not.
Count Dante started out legitimate like Dillman I believe, but then got into the Dim Mak, the death touch.
It would be great to make a list of top 10 best martial arts masters of all time. It would be interesting to see that list.
Dan insansto no 1 since he is the most qualified martial artist in 20 and 21 century
Your discussion from about 25:30 - 37:00 is so profound. Everyone should listen to that carefully. I sort of fell into a semi-cult in my early 20's and after I looked more deeply at it, and abandoned (most of) those ideas, I really studied critical thinking, social pressure, and how to resist being lead astray by charlatans. Most important journey of my life, by far.
Later, I had the experience of training under an Aikido sensei just as he was making the transition from really skilled martial artist to a Narcissist with delusions of godhood. One day after a seminar he sat down at the front of the class and his students sat around him like so many kids marveling at a magician. One asked “What do you think is the most important thing?” He replied with one word, “truth”. Being more analytical and skeptical than most people, I wanted to ask “What do you mean by Truth? Are we talking about natural truth? Spiritual truth? Social truth, like integrity?” I got as far as “What do you mean…?” when he interrupted me and scolded me, calling me a troublemaker. I nodded and shut up, and at the first opportunity went to the dressing room, changed my clothes and never went back. Over the next few years the other people I was studying with came to realize what a douchebag and a charlatan he was- and a very dangerous one, because he truly was a gifted martial artist. The more I go through life the more I realize that the old saw “ power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.” is one of the wisest things ever said.
If you do a martial art and don’t spar and not sparring like they do in aikido then it’s pretty useless, even when I did king fu we would spar each other and test what worked.
I'm really happy that my Judo Dojo does a lot of pressure testing, so we students don't end up like this xd
Every Judo Dojo is like this by necessity. The reason Judo is so legit is that you absolutely cannot teach it without pressure testing. Any technique that isn't effective has been discarded decades ago. All that remains are effective and intuitive combat forms.
Hi Rokas, great to have you back. Congrats to the marriage :) when you're done with Flowers for Algernon I have another book recommendation for you. You mentioned that your critical approach sometimes makes you miserable and that it influences how you see people. I can wholeheartedly recommend "HumanKind" by the historian Ruter Bregman. It's a historical outlook on the human nature and it's core premise is, that homo sapiens are morally "good", meaning friendly, social, altruistic, helpful, happy, etc. I'm admittedly biased since I studied history, so this book is my jam already, but it really is one of the best explanations on human behavior I've ever read and it heavily influenced how I see people and the world. To me it proved that being critical and being positive aren't opposites, but the same thing, since it's often way harder to believe in the good in people and assuming the worst is an easy way out.
I had this argument for years with a friend when we were younger. He would argue that humans are inherently evil, and I would argue humans were inherently good. Really smart guy, hard to get the better of him even though biology brings us a lot of evidence. I've gotten a more nuanced outlook but I still argue that while humans are capable of both, most of us are inclined toward good.
"Life's amazing, the world is amazing, BUT I ALSO SEE SO MUCH SHIT" HAHAH IDK why but that's the quote of the year for me.
Dillman at the OBGYN's office: "50% of the time... it works... every time"
Between the two of y'all's videos, it's made really rethink a lot about martial arts schools. I feel bad for some of my friends who have dedicated decades to something that might ultimately be bullshit. In many cases, they are still competent fighters, but theyre not as good as they could of been if they hadn't been sucked into the cult.
I’ve also heard it’s a bad sign if a martial arts school/instructor goes seeking students. The philosophy is that if a school/teacher is actually good, then potential students will come to them, not the other way around. Edit- I’ve been given food for thought in the replies.
@karaoconnolraliasraidra But that is the problem, it is a philosophy. In the American context - and this film is almost entirely American - there are people who make their living by training others. This applies to Martial Arts and to Sports, Pilates, Yoga etc. These people aren't necessarily known to the wider community, so if they wait for people to find them, they may starve. Once a martial artist is established and well known, then they will pick up students without a problem. In China and Japan and Okinawa it was not like this, at least in the past. In the past, of course, martial arts were not open to everyone. Chinese Arts belonged to families or villages (e.g.; Chen Tai Chi), Okinawan Karate also might belong to a family or community. Japanese Arts originated in warfare and were linked to specific warriors who were - usually - in service to a particular Lord and his family. In each of these instances, the art would only be passed on to a limited number of people, either family/village members or to other warriors in service to the same lord. In those historical contexts, the teaching was restricted and there were incentives not to spread the teachings. In the modern context, even excellent teachers with legitimate background may need to teach publicly in order to support themselves and in order to maintain their art.
@@charleshayes2528 I see. I hadn’t stopped to consider the differences in culture and eras. Maybe it’s better to say good teachers will gain positive word of mouth.
@@karaoconnoraliasraidra I absolutely agree! However, the word of mouth may be restricted to an "in-crowd", so that the Karate community may know who to go to to get advanced teaching in Karate but may not know anything about who to trust in HEMA. Thankfully, this is becoming less common and the walls between various arts are more transparent. But . . . the average non-Martial Artist might have no idea who to trust with the teaching of their children.
The best old school control in martial arts is........ "I as your instructor will tell you what to do."
Damn, top 10, I thought this was going to be a 10mins vid. 2 hours later and I'm still listening. Great discussion.
Thanks!
The irony of having school self awereness
Great video Rokas
I have a story about Idan Abolnick. In 2012 he came to the company i was working at to give a demonstration. He started off with a BS story about arriving in South Africa and how he killed 3 hijackers at the airport. I was doing Aikido at the time and i mentioned it to him. He then proceeded to tell me how useless Aikido was and how i should come train with him. One of his instructors hit me really hard with an open palm strike to my chest (totally unprovoked - presumably trying to show how good his Krav Maga system was). The Krav Maga demonstration was actually quite good, but i was put off by their arrogance. I actually agree with him that Aikido is useless in a real fight, but i am always put off when one instructor mockingly states how bad another martial art is.
Welcome back Rokas! I hope you had a wonderful and memorable honeymoon!
Thank you!! The honeymoon was great! Now it's back to action 😊
That was a super interesting listen. Some real crazy characters in the Martial Arts world! I thought the 'ignorance is bliss' idea you started to elaborate on was really interesting. I think anyone who has crossed over from a TMA to a combat sport has experienced this thought process. It kind of reminds me of the scene in the Wizard of Oz when they look behind the curtain and find that the wizard is a fraud. When you have this kind of realisation nothing's ever the same again. It would be cool to hear you do a deep dive on this topic.
Once upon a time George Dillman was a ranked and respected martial artist. He was Mohamed Ali's body guard for a while too. He was a legit stunt performer and a legit person. He was Elvis' Sensei for a bit. I have no idea what happened in between him getting with Pricilla Presley and what we see today that turned him into a bizarre Dragon Ball Z-Esque Larper. But I'd love to know the story sometime.
Maybe getting those bodyguard jobs had more to do with being convincing than having the skills? As to Elvis, I love what he's helped change in society, and how he brought folks to karate, but he was at best an ordinary beginner, and easily exploited.
If he trained Elvis then he MUST be legit
Read Priscillas book.. Elvis was totally into really wacky pseudo spiritual stuff
@@29maurice Dillman had some legit skills in the ring. The problem with the film is that the presenters rightly disapprove of what Dillman represents now and retroject that disapproval into his past. History shows plenty of people who were very skilled in all sorts of ways and who eventually went off the rails. Their end doesn't mean that their beginning wasn't genuine.
Some thoughts:
1. Watching way to many Rokas and Rob videos to actualy know witch names will come up in the list.
2. I've trained Aikido for a short period as class at Uni. Something was alwayas "off" about it. Now I'm sucking at Judo (again, thanks, Rob, Icy and Seth for inspiring me to go on this fantastic and bruised jurney) and it feels great.
3. Sad reality, eaven if You have CPR/firtst aid certified instructors we won't be able to save every one. I lost two off my friends, one from heart attack (congenital defect) after a warm up in kick boxing class, and second from brain aneurysm pop during wrestling trainning. There was a swift reaction from CPR trained professionals in both cases, but there were not able to do anything.
4. Sveikinimai iš Lenkijos Rokas! Sorry for TLDR comment.
Dillman can guess the sex of a baby in only two tries.
McDojoLife is a cool channel, I like the humour Rob uses when covering this stuff that and his coverage is solid. Yep the Cult of personality has become a big issue in general it's not just the Arts these days, I say that as somebody that is expressly not pleased with general direction this stuff has gone in overall. The take about not liking certain legitimate Martial arts personalities I'm a bit split about, As you can still be an exemplary martial artist, but the have personality of a rock and the ego of hot air balloon which can lead to people saying stuff that they just shouldn't and deservedly should be called out for as it's all about staying humble. Not talking about you Rokas, you seem like the kind of guy that is just constantly chill so yeah.
Good content. My worst fear, as martial arts instructor, is to have any sort of echo chamber effect. Gotta keep ot real, smart, current, safe, effective, and pressure tested. And no crazy instructors
Weirdest thing about George Dillman is he is a legitimate martial arts master.
The best way to con a person is to actually know what you're talking about. As 80's wrestling bookers would often say, "If I say A and B and both are true, why would you believe C is bullshit?".
If you base your con on the exaggeration of truth, or build up legitimate accolades, the appeal to authority will set in.
was
Great collab! Really interesting all the way through
Thanks!
the sodas at the checkout are also cold, while the ones in the aisles are almost always on a shelf at room temperature.
Count Dante!
I lived in Chicago back then! I was a scrawny, smart kid and was getting bullied. So, I'd see his ads in comic books and think, hmmm.
That summer, I was taught to box by my Cherokee grandfather. He was the heavyweight boxing champion of his USN Fleet in World War II, so he knew his boxing.
It took one fight that fall using the boxing techniques taught by my grandfather for all of the bullying to end. So, no more thoughts of Count Dante!
Great video gents, thank you!
Piano teacher here. I find it very interesting to see the parallels between the world of martial arts instruction and music instruction. Fake teachers, con artists and the like.
I've seen music instructors take advantage of the fact that most of their clients don't know the first thing about music or how to practice, the terminology, etc. and will put zero effort into helping students progress. No curriculum, no goals, no notes, no homework. Just milking the clock and collecting the checks. Basically music McDojo teachers.
What is frustrating is that teachers like this wouldn't exist without the demand. Just like many parents sign up their kids to a McDojo because they want them to have "the experience" without having to work hard or learn self discipline, parents also sign up the kids for music lessons that are specifically watered down and "fun", i.e. no practice, no study of technique, no theory. Just easy feel-good times and constant affirmations of the child's "brilliance".
This is a great way to ruin a child and give them a horribly false sense of self confidence, setting them up ultimately for failure.
I've seen this type of instruction widespread at almost every level of institution except for university. They actually have to have curriculum and standards there.
You know, mentioning falling in the trap of a cult, i was passing through a rough time in my life so i wanted ti learn yoga so i searched for the best teacher or institute for that, so i found it, found the most organized and the biggest institute in my country and it was n still one of the biggest around the world so i went in and the yoga is like made into levels so i started the first program and looking at all the other members and specially the advanced students and they looked like they were under a spell of the guru, and the guru is in india and teaches online, i realized they were a cult and i researched the institute and also found out that i was right it was a religeous cult, but they still taught the best meditation and yoga techniques so i stuck around learned what i wanted and got out and they tried to contact me a lot later on but i resisted going back and building on what i learned from them i started researching and teaching myself the rest of it
Well I just use videos for free on UA-cam
You two are great, def subbing for more content. Very educational video!
Great video guys! I love both of your channels, big fan! Keep up the good work!
Out For Justice is the movie with the pool hall thing. Movie was in my area.
What I learned from a leftist security services work where we often work at bars and deal with drunken ppl, that if it gets physical (often de-escalation works best but some times it doesn't) non ammunition of former combat sports training my coworkers had really helped in a street fight. Sure it helps a little with strength and reaction time. But when it comes down to it there area few issues. 1. And most ppl don't realize that, humans usually don't want to do real damage to others especially if you are sober and the other is not, so you for sure don't just want to tage a swing on a person. 2. Street just doesn't go by the rules of martial arts or any kind of combat sport for that matter. 3. Fights don't just stop, so you gotta have a plan and technique to go a step further and salve the situation. We have training in a very simple technique that relays heavy on basic wrestling thing to have like a self defense that won't do damage to the other person, but it is very basic and anything beyond that won't even find usage in a real conflict.
Holy shit... the Count Dante movie is don't mess with the Zohan!
Frank Dux also was mentioned in the book "Stolen Valor" for lying about his military service.
“Several years and sandwiches later” 😂
This is great, just started the video. As a small feedback. Maybe you should record yourself in a little more relaxing setting, as McDojoLife is doing. You would probably feel that there's less pressure on you , and therefore be more relaxed. At least it would for me. And as a viewer I feel that it looks better.
Thanks for the feedback Marco. The problem for me was that at the time of filming I had a back injury so I was forced to stand and constantly had pain :)
Steven Seagal does indeed "ex-communicate" people who stand up to him. He tried telling Michael Bisping how to punch because he didn't realise who he was. When the count was having none of it, he was thrown off the movie.
Great video Rokas. If you want to see Aikido techniques working with fully resisting ukes right from the start, without using force, come to Portugal and train Portuguese Personal Defense. Vitor Gomes studied kickboxing, Muai Thai, BJJ, JJ, Aikido, etc and altered the techniques to work in the modern world. For me Vitor Gomes is the portuguese Bruce Lee. For forty years he perfected the techniques and made them work in street scenarios. They train for controling the oponent. In todays world we have laws to follow and we can't hurt people unless we are atacked by more than one. Proporcionality defense. We can't use brutality. In Lisbon you can sparr with Hugo Silva and check it for yourself.
Researched and well done!
Good talk, thanks fellas!
Great topic and a lot of good wisdom.
@10:43 re: Dale Brown. Is that Jhoon Rhee in the middle (pioneer of Tae Kwon Do in the Washington DC area "nobody bothers me")? Certainly looks like him (there are lots of pictures of Jhoon Rhee and Bruce Lee together, they trained together apparently)
It’s not just martial arts teachers, it’s all teaching professions that have this problem.
Rokas' guest misspoke in how he used the term excommunication--unless he meant it in a loose metaphor. Excommunication as used in the ancient sacramental churches is not cultish but medicinal and, very significantly (going against his definition), all communication and interaction does not necessarily cease--often only denial of the sacraments, the reception of which implies solidarity of belief. Nobody is going to drive you away from attending a Divine Liturgy, prevent you seeking private counsel with the priest, or make a scene over you attending parish socials just because you are excommunicated unless there are aggravating circumstances. There are automatic excommunications for certain sins that make you ineligible to receive the Eucharist, for example, but you may participate in all other aspects of a worship service.
At roughly 1:00:00, totally agree. I have a student, and never rose above purple at my highest. Made that clear from the off, and demand I'm not called sensei or sifu. I haven't earned that title yet in my eyes.
My main Karate school was very cult like. However the martial arts were good. I just used the good and dropped the rest.
I had to leave that dojo 2x.
First I left and did some Aikido. I enjoyed my Aikido school but saw weaknesses in the training and it was bad for my back health(breakfalls daily unlike occasionally in Karate).
Then I went back to my old dojo and after a few years it got toxic again. Lucky I had about 90% of the system ( Goju Karate ). At this point I had my schools and students. I went my own way.
one of those schools where students had to bow to the intructors?
The bowing is not cult....it is culture. However the cult part was more how we trained and with who. They acted as of they had the only answers. Also they tried to control the questions too.
Welcome back to my new favorite podcast. Congratulations on your marriage.
really nice to see this collab
My 2 favorite martial arts guys in the same video - how awesome!
I just began watching and I have a question - is it a top 5 or top 10 ?
It's top 5 of my list, plus top 5 of Rob's list. So technically top 10
@@MartialArtsJourney I see. Thanks for the answer!!!
Wait - did you just suggest that Gary V and Tony Robbins are safe people to listen to? Cause they're pretty close to as bad as Fabia and all the others
I'm suspicious of them as well
Used them as examples of who people go to when they are looking for self help seminars
this was great
Matthew 7:3 - “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?
Take a look at "Dr" Soke Rod Sachornoski. Master of Jujutsu, Judo, Karate, Bujutsu and a never ending pile of arts. Also known as the guy who takes full power shots to the nuts
I never got George Dillman, he was a legitimate martial artist with a very impressive resume and he became a fraud when he didn't have to be.
1:40:50 RE: Yashida Kim: " The delusion is what is making him happy in life. And most of the time there's nothing wrong with that- except for the fact that he's teaching people utter garbage."
I loved your Discussion of how being skeptical and analytical can isolate you sometimes, and "Flowers for Algernon." Great book. I can _so_ relate. There was a movie made of it, too simply called "Charly". Don't know how strictly it sticks to the book, but it sounds similar.
You guys have a way of casually dropping really profound nuggets, _much_ more profound and actually useful than any of the gurus in martial arts or, alternative health ideas, or religious leaders who are trying _so hard_ to be profound, and _think_ they're succeeding at it. I'd love to talk to you some time. Do either of you live anywhere near Denver Colorado?
What yall think about Frank Dux?
The ones I laugh at the most are when the students participate in the fraud. Anyone with 2 brain cells to rub together can clearly see they are going along with it in the hopes people will believe it to be legit. Then when they get called on it by an actual trained fighter, the excuses as to why it didn’t work are hysterical.
The truth of the matter when confronting those who are in a cult (regardless of the type of cult) is that their indoctrination is built on three things, contingency, redundancy and conflict. As a being that grew up in a cult the most important of three to be aware of when attempting to help someone in a cult realise, is the conflict aspect. In religious cults there is always a "them vs us" mentality. Anyone not with us is against us. They expect to be mocked and ridiculed and attacked.
This mentality is also very prevalent in the martial arts cult of personality garbage. So the best way to approach these people who are indoctrinated, is with kindness, charity and understanding. By getting them to ask themselves the questions and by being non confrontational about it, you have your best chance to not trigger the contingencies and redundancies. Where the approach is effective, the cultists essentially "defuse" themselves. If you don't push back where they expect you to push back, if you don't rise to their bait, if you are charitable instead of ridiculing, they really don't know how to respond. You also circumvent the "the world outside the cult is cold and hostile and the only safety is inside" kind of mentality or variations of that so often seems people want to remain. There are fundamental aspects of cult mentality that it is important to learn about so you can avoid the pitfalls when talking to people in cults of any kind.
You mentioned Steve Hassan and I think that his BITE Model would be a good reference when picking a gym
A question for Rob: do you have a link or something on SOP for teachers interacting with students? As an example, when I used to coach youth hockey one of the rules for us coaches was to not enter the dressing room with kids unless a second adult (not of the same family) was present. If there was only one coach, he would wait outside the room with the door open.
Common sense is nice, but having formal written rules of conduct that protect both the kids and the adults is better.
There is no sop for martial arts. There’s no governing board for martial arts as a whole. There may be some for specific schools or systems, but I’m unaware if there is.
I'm friends with Ashida Kim. Yeah, the stuff is fantasy, but I always loved his undying obsession with martial arts and in a way it shares that fire. I don't know why I adore him, he's a genuinely nice guy. Anyone worth their salt can see what is fake and I doubt they fall for the Dim Mak, and then begin to interpret this guy like I do. He doesn't run a school. Otherwise, I'd be like wtf man.
Shit....a count Dante film would be amazing
agreed!! it would be bonkers
I'd love a Black Dragon Society movie that properly portrays the gradual self delusion
Thanku so much
Count Dante would make a funny movie honestly
Interesting insights
Can you put a video kendo and hema ? These kind of martial arts are rarely mentioned or evaluated on there practicality.
I'm planning to make a video on hema hopefully even still this summer
@@MartialArtsJourney great, looking forward to it.
Hey, I've been a HEMA instructor for about a decade now, but frankly if you're interested in any of HEMA for "practicality", as in the application, that's very far from the objective. Also there is no HEMA martial art, it covers an enormous selection of martial practices. A more interesting premise is if our experimental archeology pressure testing is legitimate
Kenjutsu is closer to hema than kendo
@m.a.k.8618
With respect, if you are looking at Kendo or HEMA for practicality, you have misunderstood them both. 1) Kendo is a modern Budo with a sport aspect. It is based on older styles of Kenjutsu and Kendo (of the Tokugawa) era, but it is not quite the same. 2) Kendo - as a competitive art - involves a bamboo sword/Shinai, plus solid wooden or metal swords for Kata practice and for the related art of Iaido. People do not carry swords anymore and if they did, they would probably get arrested. 3) Even if you have real skills, a sword doesn't stand much chance against a gunman at a distance or in a confined space.
Kendo is now about personal development, study and enjoyment - with a competitive element - and even those who emphasise the original practicality of the old school swordsmanship generally accept that they are keeping alive an old tradition for its own sake and for what they learn from it and not because they expect to engage in sword duels in the main street.
Of course, Kendo can teach distance and timing and I know of Kendoka who were able to use those skills to avoid injury when attacked. (BTW Aikido techniques are based on sword movements, so there is a potential carryover.)
Don't be mistaken, I have played Kendo and loved it and would recommend it for someone who wants to get into an older art. I also know how dangerous live blades (Shinken) can be. But that is not the focus or the intent of Kendo.
But if you want practicality - and by "practicality" I assume you mean self defence? (cos nobody ain't gonna let you take no sword into the ring in MMA - that isn't in the mix) - then you want something that addresses the kind of attacks you are likely to face. There are plenty of systems out there that do that. Kendo doesn't claim to be one of them.
I have deliberately avoided speaking about HEMA because, as someone else pointed out, there is not one art. HEMA refers to Historical European Martial Arts - plural. So someone doing archery is doing HEMA, someone doing European Sword Drills, from whichever period is doing HEMA, someone doing genuine Quarter Staff (not the movie BS) is doing HEMA.
Traditional boxing and wrestling could also be a HEMA and would certainly have practical aspects. So it depends on which art you are talking about. It is just the same as Eastern Arts. Horseback Archery or the use of Chinese Polearms isn't going to be practical in the modern urban context; forms of Karate, Kung Fu and Jiu-Jutsu which were specifically designed for close quarter conflict and civil self defence might certainly be. (Look for Patrick McCarthy and Jesse Enkamp on why most forms of Karate were probably designed to be used against the surprise attack of a mugger rather than a stand up battle or even a street fight.)
If you carry an umbrella, you could adapt some techniques from martial arts to help you use it in self defence - I wouldn't recommend trying to emulate Japanese or HEMA sword cutting techniques - as the umbrella won't stand it.
Michael Ovitz was a big time agent when he discovered Steven Seagal. He even talks about it in his book.
He challenged people to fights and then chickened out? Holy cow, that guy turned into The Grouchy Ladybug from the Eric Carle book! 🐞🤺
At the 14 minute mark: THIS! I did martial arts for 15 years - started when I was 46. Ostensibly, I left because my knees and shoulders were giving out. But another reason that I left is exactly what you are talking about: I had some great teachers, and some not-so-great. Some of them were students of Dillman - I kid you not. But all the "masters" believed that they had the right to tell me how to live my life, and I had an obligation to obey. FFS I was older than a lot of them!
Glad you put this out Rokas- cult behavior is fascinating. Hassan’s book uses his B.I.T.E. model. I pray you are healing from your injury. Please update us and let us know how you are….
One thing he forgot about talking about the grocery store comparison is refrigeration, of course, you can go get a warm soda in the store, but do you really want a warm soda on a hot day while running errands? Plus for those of us with control issues buying six means we're probably drinking six. Thinking like that is exactly how I gained 60 pounds, why buy the smaller more expensive one when I can get six times the amount for pennies mrore?
I remember the count Dante ads in comic books as a kid
Wow, that's cool :)
@@MartialArtsJourneyI was a member at 12-13 and it saved my life!
If you study the book it has real street fighting techniques in it!
Got into it with a bully after 9 months of humiliation, tried to rip out his throat(a Count Dante move) the bully 💩 and pissed himself!
That was the last fight I had, that was May of 1974, I'm 63 now! I was 13 at the time!
Am going to open a martial arts school and teach the ancient art of Eat-N-Chew.
Nice, a new Video
Wedding is done, injury somewhat healed 😊
@@MartialArtsJourney thats great too here 👍
I think the first thing you should look for in a coach/sensei is if he believes his art is the only truth. If he does, he is brainwashed and is gonna lack what it takes to show how to defend yourself in real situations.
Congrats for the marriage. We love ya, man
Thank you! 😊🙏