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The TRUTH About The FLSun S1 Ultra-High Speed 3D Printer
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- Опубліковано 7 сер 2024
- FLSun makes some lofty claims about their new S1. On paper, it’s twice as fast as the Bambu X1C. But are the specs for real or is it all just marketing? In this video I take a deep dive into this next generation ultra-high speed 3D printer, analyzing it in detail and determining how it stacks up to the competition.
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00:00 Will the S1 Live Up To Expectations?
00:42 Sponsor - PCBWay
01:18 Disclosure
01:31 How Delta Printers Work
02:25 Pros & Cons of Delta Kinematics
03:11 Build Height Not As Advertised?
04:12 Integrated Filament Dry Box
05:09 User Interface - Don’t Be Fooled
05:45 Camera - Timelapses & AI Features
06:39 LIDAR Calibrations
08:04 Klipper Firmware Complications
08:28 Pressure Advance Not Working
09:00 Bed Levelling & First layer Issues
10:32 Input Shaping - No SSH Access
11:09 Print Montage
11:38 CPAP Cooling
12:13 Not Enough Cooling?
13:01 2X Faster Than Bambu X1C
13:38 Print Quality Comparisons
14:07 VFAs
14:37 Torture Toaster
15:21 Strength Suffers
16:05 Dimensional Accuracy
17:43 Flow Calibration
18:01 Validating Marketing Claims - Flow Rate
20:15 Validating Marketing Claims - Print Speed
20:53 Validating Marketing Claims - Acceleration
21:28 Hot End & Nozzle
22:04 Maintenance & Spare Parts
22:50 Segmented Heat Bed
23:34 UPS - Power Loss Recovery
24:45 Print Profiles Need Work
25:27 TPU Tests
25:43 Chamber Heating
26:35 Chamber Cooling
26:58 Can’t Print Abrasive Materials
27:24 Overall Pros & Cons
29:05 Good For Art, Not Engineering
29:32 Outro
This is a LEGIT review - best I've seen in a while. You clearly put a ton of time and effort into actually USING this printer, and offering some incredibly constructive feedback. Top notch stuff here, and I would think hard for FLSUN to ignore.
@@mitchnak1 thank you very much! Definitely put a ton of effort into this so means a lot to have it acknowledged.
100% agreed. You do some of the best printer reviews I've seen, and I watch all the other popular channels. I appreciate your thorough and exhaustive approach to this. This helps the rest of us know ahead of time what our $1200-2000+ investment is going to bring to the table. AND what it will not. These details you mention matter alot. I purchased a troodon 2.0 based on your reviews of that machine and am happy to say I am very satisfied with that purchase.
@@phasesecuritytechnology6573thank you for your kind words! Means a lot.
Agreed, the Q1 Pro review was excellent and in-depth as well. Covers every single thing you wonder about and more in a succint manner. 👍
Excellent review. I'm here for the bot comments, but so far I'm disappointed. :(
Innovative innovation, innovatiest of innovative innovator innovating.
Instead of searching or waiting for bot comments, community should continue with testing and reporting issues to Flsun so they can fix all found issues. When they sent printers to content creators for free, they for sure sent them because they believe enough in content creator expertise to give unbiased review of machine because some issues can only be found during usage of machine by end user, same as bug in applications. A lot of bugs in applications are found by end users when application is already in production because not all testing can be done in development phase. In my opinion, waiting for bot comments, especially by someone who is running, again in my opinion, successful 3d printing channel is pure waste of time which could be spent helping to continue testing and reporting all found issues to manufacturer so they can be fixed as soon as possible. In that way, a content creator would do more beneficial work for his viewers and 3d community in general and also make good connection with manufacturer itself.
@@M4R3K0001 Relax. He has already done that and provided lot of feedback to flsun. A light hearted comment about bots won't kill you.
@@Z-add Im not the one who has to relax because Im not the one who is upset about anything. I just wrote my personal opinion.
In the end, Im not the one going from channel to channel hunting Flsun comment bots like some others here are doing...
@@M4R3K0001 I reported all of the issues I found to the manufacturer and waited for them to respond with suggestions and/or fixes long before recording my review. I only included issues that remain unfixed.
The machine's square definitely has nothing to do with whether the motors are open or closed loop, this will only make a difference in the fact that it will never lose steps, which would lead to an XY shift of layers in orthogonal printers, in a delta this shift would be in the Z direction as well.
The squareness has to do with the precision of the components and the mechanical assembly, as well as the rigidity of the frame
Except the printer runs Klipper, which batches commands to the MCU and is therefore unable to act upon and compensate for lost steps, only cancel the print.
@@ediposantos6574 that makes more sense, thanks.
@@comradef1916 interesting! I wasn’t aware of this.
Dimensional accuracy can also be lowered/improved by incorrect/correct config of delta rods, effector distance from rods, inaccurate calibration of towers etc. delta kinematics are not so simple as in bed slinger or core xy
_SET_GCODE_OFFSET Z=0.03 is the gcode for offset on the flsun S1. normal way doesn't work.
The flow rate thing pissed me off the most…. It’s literally same as the high flow creality sprite hotend…… that’s a budget hotend…… I don’t believe it was unintentionally fooling themselves…. How can you create a 3D printer from scratch and not know how the flow rate could be speed and acceleration limited.
Also the calibrations not working is wild
Did they just not test it even once ?
@@martinskamla6789 definitely sketchy… 😬
They tested, I'm sure. But then they hit the box for shipment date, and out it went...
Great thorough review! I'm glad you don't shy away from showing the flaws and misleading claims. It's great the printer is capable of such high speeds as well as good quality. However, there are so many small issues that should have been addressed before releasing the printer. At least most of them can be fixed with software updates. What's totally unacceptable is a company not understanding the test they use to make claims about maximal flow rate. Like you said, they either know their claims are bogus, or whoever did the testing doesn't even know what they are doing properly. A bit alarming. Overall, it seems like a very high quality product with pretty insane capabilities. It just really needs a lot more polish, especially given the price. I wonder if your comment section will be flooded with bots like Clough42. ;)
A very good review. I do like the insights. Keep up the good work
Just landed on your channel and have to say the quality and honesty of the videos you are putting out is top notch. I can see this easily being a maker community staple channel. Great job man, and thank you! ❤
@@Archivort thank you very much! I really appreciate this comment!
Thank you for the videos, really enjoying your review style. I'd like to see you review the Peopoly Magneto as well.
@@ficklecycler thank you very much! I’d love to review the Magneto X. I reached out to Peopoly a while ago to see if they’d send me one but never heard back. Can’t justify buying it… too many other printers in my workshop currently.
Hi !
That review was clear, precise and helpfull.
Thanks for your work 🙃
@@lovalec9321 thanks!
Great video, I learned a lot about testing flow rate and grading print performance. The delta kinematics are hard to ignore with the acceleration advantages and less compliant motion system. Thanks for putting this out there.
great review! just a small note, you probably need a special pla that can melt faster to achieve 100mm3s, like polysonic for eg. one channel did manage to get it and it should be possible with such a large melt zone.
As an owner of a very large delta, when it works, it's like a magic part-making machine. When it breaks or fails, you should expect to be up to snuff on your repair skills and/or mechanical engineering knowledge.
While the only remaining original parts on mine are the frame and a few wires, they are not mod friendly as-is. Swapping a hot end is a wholly custom job, including new effectors and a good bit of hardware and add-on code. I see some nice upgrades on this S1 like the linear rails versus the belt-driven carriages (something on the docket for mine eventually) and the enclosure is a nicety.
But in the end, it's still a candle twice as bright, half as long scenario. If you want accurate parts, it needs to slow down to achievable/reliable speeds and a thorough tune-up job for slicer settings are mandatory; I spent a month in Cura fine-tuning mine to where it prints beautiful, functional parts, but then you have to really stay on top of belt tensions and lubricity as deltas will go out-of-spec even between prints when they get some appreciable age/use on them. Like almost every printer, bench values versus in-use ratings are always a marketing smoke-and-mirrors aggravation that looks great on the box, but running them at 'half value' is usually the best approach for longevity and reliability.
A superb review. Every reviewer should use this as a yardstick for their reviews.
@@jonbondy thank you kindly, really appreciate the sentiment!
Thank you for your review. I used to have a Super Racer, after two years of upgrading and tinkering the machine broke finally down. It was my own fault as I did somethings wrong with the new hotend. In my opinion currently there is a race for speed. The point is, we need reliable printers - for me, it is currently my unmodded but rooted K1C.Nevertheless, who really needs 1200 mm/s in a hobby environment?
BTW Just by watching the video you taught me I can hover over the values in the print window on Mainsail. (After four years of experience in different machines.)
It is consumer segment but many people dont use it only as hobby.
I was waiting for someone to make a proper review like this. Excellent job
Other reviews left A LOT to be desired
@@martinskamla6789 thank you very much!
Great review , thank you , So like my v400 purchased in pre-sale during the release.. this printer is not yet ready
Best review and format by far.
Why, why, WHY, are printer companies selling unfinished products? Are they really selling enough units initially to justify selling unfinished units to hopefully finish them later? If these issues were simply fixed before shipping, then reviewers would likely gain them more sales. Waiting for the next rock solid printer release... If ever possible
@@dmax9324 thank you very much! That is a great question. I really don’t understand the strategy of releasing something before it’s ready. At the least, they should give some indication that the product is still in beta.
Espically when theyve delayed the shipping deadline like 3 or 4 times already...
They are all in panic mode because Bambu has taken the bulk of the FDM consumer market. They are basically committing fraud to try and compete.
about abrassive filaments, main reason regular nozzles wear down after some use with abrassive filaments is that when they cool down, the fibers (or whatever inside the filament) is eating away at the tip of the nozzle, thats why ruby or diamond tipped brass nozzles are a thing. because only the tip of the nozzle wears down, not the insides. you could say CHT alike shape of the S1's hotends internal design might get effected by these filaments but i dont think so. (would like to see test of it tho).
Good review btw, you really looked everything you can without disassembling the printer!
despite the fancy internal geometry of the hotend it apparently is aluminium or some other non-hardened material, which means you can't run abrasive filament through it
Ahh, yeah, as was mentioned twice in this review. Anything else you'd like to pointlessly repeat in the comments? Note: I'm only saying this once. 🙂
i really appreciate the entire 1:18 - 1:27 section. a clear and simple explanation of your relation with the manufacturer and the product.
I see ur XL is missing ur bump for layer banding. Did you fix it?
@@ericvanderpool5411 I stopped using it after greasing the couplers on the front of each tool head, which seemed to alleviate the banding.
Great review thanks 👍🏻👏🏻
I had my hopes for this printer but it seems FLSUN has used a play from Creality's playbook. Remember when Creality advertised the K1C with its "all metal extruder"? Then the reviewers that Creality sent machines too found out it was mainly all plastic raising the question, does it still produce 1,000 clog free hours? Why did Creality change their website from 'all metal extruder' to clog free but on their amazon page its still clearly advertised as "all metal extruder"? Yea not happy with that. And I'm not happy with the S1. Way too many false claims, this will not be a printer I will be getting.
With that said Bambu said they are coming out with a large build area printer in Q3 or Q4 this year. I think I will wait for it. Thanks for the video and and being honest and finding out the truth about the S1.
Would you be able to test the max flow rate at higg temperatures?
For example 260c PLA.
I've seen lots of tests for flow rate but people are still using 200-210 c for the test which is way too low for high speed printing.
Ny Kobra 2 ( with cht style brass nozzle) can just about manage 50mms³ at 260c 0.6mm nozzle
But at 215 only just about manages 32mms³
@@freedomofmotion I did that test and it wasn’t a considerable improvement. The test file they sent me was sliced at 230.
@@ygk3d Thanks what was the max flow with that temperature increase?
Also could you test with a CHT style nozzle please?
I'm quite interested in the max flow possible since the CHT geometry in the block itself should be quite effective. Although perhaps it's too high up in the melt zone so ends up being restrictive itself?
At any rate thanks for the very in-depth review.
@@freedomofmotion I think it was maybe around 40, don’t recall exactly. Would definitely be interesting to add a CHT nozzle with the CHT heat block and see how that flows.
@@ygk3d Lovely I look forward to seeing any follow ups you do.
In theory this should be a great printer but right now it's just a fast printer that doesn't quite work right 😂
Yeah exactly. 30+ at such a cold temp as 215 is quite respectable. I'd love to see what it can do at 245-270.
looks like their website is down today
@@dog2bert I noticed that too. Strange.
I'm more interested in the T1
S1 is a printer that is still in beta, FLSUN should have worked more and just launched it at the end of the year, they only focused on speed.
Well probably because theyve already pushed deadline so many times theyre afraid theyll get a lawsuit for pusing it to end of the year😂 Imagine they shipping it in February 2024💀💀
I have a modded Super racer and love it. If I want more print volume with a delta I will get the V400 and mod that like my SR.
*Update*
The driver board for one of the steppers caught fire on my S1
I bought mine during the "sale" due to fomo and i regret. I love my superracer so i thought id love this printer.
Im heavily disappointed. Im tempted to ripout the original electronics and out in my own to get better results.
I ordered a T1 expectation being it would be better than a SR, have klipper, WiFi and an enclosure yet cheaper than the v400. If print speeds and quality remain the same I’m ok with that. However the delivery date advertised has been 5 months longer and I have purchased my first Bambu and now regret the order. There is no way the T1 is going to be as good.
@@rambokd T1 looks promising at the price point, but that’s a really long wait. Will be interesting to see how it compares to the S1. I’m supposed to have one coming so will hopefully have some content on it soon. Can’t go wrong with Bambu in the meantime.
@@rambokd patients 😇 it will be well worth the wait I’m sure 👍 my SR absolutely rips
As a human who enjoys driving car and doing walk I think it's important to keep in mind how much ground breaking processes have failures and we should be 100% certain FLSUN will sort these issues that come with ground breaking innovation out.
@@troglotech. beep bop 🤖
Here we go again......
This is how all reviewers should do reviews
good review
27:11 is it aluminium? Not nickel plated copper?
Actually, you might be right. It could be nickel plated copper.
So is anybody gonna create a lawsuit about all these things or at least the wrong mvs? I see all those bad reviews but nobody willing to take them on which means that they could keep selling their products to ignorant people.
Your review is very good and bravo for your hard work.
10:35 has always been my issue with fast printers, i get wanting to prototype something quickly but i won't use high speed to get good quality.
For a printer of this price, these results are catastrophic!
wait till you find out about prusa XL
@@M4R3K0001they have fixed all the issues it had. But we can say that both of the printer's when released had a lot of issues. That's true.
@M4R3K0001 Prusa XL had a lot of things fixed, try to keep up before spewing BS.
@@krollmond7544 Did you watch numerous videos about prusa XL when it came out and how it was overpriced for what you got at that point? Its not only my opinion but also opinion of many respectable 3d printing channels that prusa put xl on market just to put something to be relative when bambulab launched one printer after another which , at that point, caused xl to be unfinished overpriced machine. When bender said "for printer of this price, results are catastrophic" I compared XL in same time frame from release as S1 is now... And still, S1 is in far better position as XL was in same time frame from release. So I suggest you to use common sense before you start accusing someone for spewing BS.
looks very impressive
That'll fit on my shelf!
@@orbita1 you must have big shelves 😂
Thank you for that review, it definitively provides a valuable and neutral/objective opinion!
The specifications on paper are impressive, but unfortunately, the reality appears to be quite different.
It's hard to believe that flow rate error is unintentional.
Before releasing the S1, I would assume it went under thousands of hours of testing and validation, in addition the S1 would likely have been provided to a variety of people outside of Flsun (influencers, highly active community members), so it's surprising that no one noticed and reported such "minor" detail.
Currently, the S1 looks to be an un-finished product or understand development which is a shame considering the price.
Incorrect marketing statements are going to look bad for Flsun.
As a Delta lover, I was considering purchasing the S1, but as more honest reviews emerge, I'm leaning towards something else ... likely a Prusa XL.
Out of curiosity, were you able to test the "AI" functions? first later inspection, spaghetti detection...
@@fred-l thanks! Yes, I talk about the AI functions in the video. You can use the chapter markers to skip to that point.
@@ygk3d For some reason, I forgot about it after watching the entire video.
@@fred-l hahah it was a long video so you’d be forgiven for forgetting the beginning 😂
Well done sir
@@floodo1 thank you 🙏
Regarding maintenance and comparing hotend maintenance between S1 and Bambu is just not correct, one is delta and one is core xy printer. Completely different kinematics which in case of delta are surrounded with rods and you dont have so much physical space as on core xy printer.
The CPAP Fan intake is so wrong when you print you want a hot chamber and "hot air" from the Chamber for Fan(s) so when you print with ABS you cool too fast your layers and then your layer adhesion i like nothing
I read about this and I agree. Maybe a fix/mod could be put a hose from chamber out to Turbo fan intake. But is a problem not so commented in reviews or another forums.
I do not agree that is less space efficient. Most of the time you are more concerned about the footprint than the height so delta printers are usually more space efficient than Cartesian printers
Good point!
Great review. Printer developed by deaf engineers for deaf users. I can't imagine that someone can be in the same room with this printer. The worst thing is that the printer makes sounds even when it is not printing!
Will you test T1? I have a T1 and have been using it for three weeks , super fast , I don’t know why so many people criticize its 1000mm/s. Why are machines with a default configuration of 250mm/s allowed to advertise 600mm/s, but machines with a default configuration of 600mm/s are not allowed to advertise 1000mm/s? 600mm/s and 1000mm/s are just movement speed, We need to discern whether the true value of the product meets our own needs, instead of just complaining and touting .
@@alboroble I’m hoping to test to the T1 soon. You make a good point about the numbers.
So the trend continues. Hardware would be good, Software not so much. Unfortunately you need both to have a good machine. I would suspect that the community will probably fix that, like it has done on the v400 and SR.
The vfa is probably from the smooth idlers. If you got teethed idlers of the correct size, replace them and see if it gets better
Well this looks like an attempt to update their design to keep up with modern features of other printers but it's not refined.....and you're paying a lot for advertised features that aren't fully baked.
Great hardware let down by bad software and poor configuration. Shame, because it has so much potential
Everyone was so excited for this printer lol
Seems yet again that these companies are leaving it to the public to inspect and beta test their products.
FLSun getting cooked! Wow its been a while since all the 3D youtubers ripping a product this bad at same time.
120mm3 flowrate XD SURELY
Clough42 sent me 😊
Thanks for stopping by :)
Shieeet, my $150 creality ender 3 can be overclocked to these speeds.
Stop lying it doesnt, impossible
I cannot understand what were they thinking when they released this train wreck. Such a pity, it seemed promising...
No matter the tech, this is why Bambu lab remains leader, they have the hardware AND the software dialed in better than anyone else. No lies, no marketing BS, just a very good refined product. I am by no means a Bambu fanboy, but its hard to argue that they really put out a product that lives up to the expectation, and doesnt need to lie about any specs.
These other companies really are just pushing sloppy products out to try to compete.
@@collect3d well said.
Yes…they refined also the art of sending our private data to their servers 😂
Exactly.
Bambu is also lying about speed capabilities at the temperatures they recommend. That's why you see matte banding.
Sems like it takes only one and the rest folow ..
This level of blatant lies on the specs/functions isnt really acceptable
When SSH if finally released this printer will crap all over the Bamboo. I also have a Super Racer which although is highly modified will print anything at speed :-)
You clearly did not watch the review...
@@BeefIngot I did watch the review, Cyril has already got a GitHub addressing these problems.. once SSH is announced it will be an awesome printer!! My Super Racer at the moment is printing at 600mm/s!! Prints are perfect 🤩 the S1 will laugh at the competition…
@@BeefIngot Correct. Strong the force is with you :-)
first
I bought it and guess what? I will never ever buy Flsun Again. EVER! stop lying.
1499 us for something that's not finished this is the problem with this company I purchased one of their first printers it wasn't even ready for Market I got suckered with it have it here at the doorstep try to have them replace it send me parts or replace it and pay something extra to exchange the machine they have not done nothing they made agreements back pedals I have tons of emails back and forth with them and they've never taken care of it still have the unit as a door stop the new hardware might look good still the same garbage company