This afternoon I was at my local printer shop and they had it on display and holy f*** it’s massive, in the video you can’t sense the sheer size of this printer.
Its more tall than massive. I think for individuals as along as it doesnt hit your ceiling its fine. I imagine it might be an issue if you are a space constrained print farm though.
Love my FLSUN Super Racer. I have other printers but there’s something about watching a delta printer that is artistic as opposed to strictly mechanical/technical.
My experience with high flow PLA is that it mostly gets you more consistent print finish (glossy) than regular PLA. I don’t think it’s going to allow you to max out the flow rate. For testing the limits of flow, you should use ABS.
Ive always kinda disliked abs for that yellow film it leaves on everything. I want a printer with a good enough filter that there is no film. This is why I like polycarbonate or tpu a lot more when I want high strength.
That cht style hotend is beautiful. Absolutely lovely that it uses common v6 nozzles since those are available in possibly the most varieties, and lots of affordable options, which seems silly off buying a $1500 printer, but Im glad flsun doesn't have us wasting money on proprietary nozzles.
Makes sense they went with the turbo blower style fan. Following what aftermarket speed racers have been doing. That hotend performance is impressive, but I'm not surprised it doesn't hit 110mm³/s as the highest I've seen from almost any off the shelf printer is in like the 40s. I imagine it may be more of a "peak" rating like how they will rate battery Amperage while the "continuous" rating is more like 30-40mm³/s in reality. That, or you have to use the perfect filament at the perfect temperature to attain that rating. Just between different PLA filaments in my flow rate testing the max effective rate could vary all the way from 20mm³/s to 30mm³/s and beyond all on the same setup. Wow though, the T1 is WAY cheaper than the S1. $600 vs $1300 at current pricing. It does seem like an impressive machine. I'm not surprised they went with direct drive, as it's pretty necessary for good accuracy with all filaments at high speeds in a modern printer. Proves my theory that people freaking out over every gram of weight on the printhead in a delta were overreacting a bit too. Although a friend just brought up a good point, that at least until recently, input shaping wasn't really a thing for Delta. Print results seem really solid for those speeds, though I'd have to see more prints at various speeds up close to really know. Some of the best googly eyes yet! I think the Q1 Pro is still at the top of my list for now, but the T1 on a deep sale would be very intriguing.
Would love to see what accelerometer graphs look like on this. On V400 it was kinda meh because of the connection of the arms to the effector (held by a spring and flimsy as hell) and I noticed they've done some work in that regard.
One thing about the hotend. The Goliath Hotend (mainly used on VzBots) also use V6 nozzles. And can achive a Flowrate of 110mm^3/s. The UA-camr Vez3d has a video about it.
@@LostInTech3D Yes i hope that too. Because there are so many different types of for example V6 nozzles and also manufacturer of them so you can choose exactly what fits you the best. Also i don't want to be bond to the manufacturer of the Printer i bought to buy there custom nozzles or nozzle-heatbreak Combo.
The Goliath hotend is a great design for high flow/ high speed. It’s great to see that you don’t need a CHT style nozzle to achieve high flow with FLSuns design, and that you can use standard nozzles. Even if it doesn’t make 110mm3/s all the time (there is one configuration that hits this metric), it’s still a huge design win in my opinion.
I have already do the control of outer and inner bed in OrcaSlicer. If the model does not exceed the inner ring then only the inner ring is heated, if it encroaches on the outer ring then the inner ring and outer ring are heated automatically.
Ah man I dont need this at all but gosh do I want it. Love their block design with CHT inspired channels as well. Nice way to bypass the patent and makes any nozzle high flow. Would love to see a high flow nozzle added to the end of it. Whats pricing for this? Perhaps i can save up and treat myself for christmas. Then i have my Kobra 2 max for big stuff and this for stuff i want ASAP.
After the recent firmware update, my S1 works fine , and they told me that there will be updates soon, I hope my S1 will get better and better . So far for multicolor I go to my P1s and for speed I use my Flsun S1 .
I would love to see an aftermarket mod for this that pushes cold air into the tool head for cooling and reduces noise. Maybe like a miniature air conditioner. You would still need to cool the air conditioner's radiator, but now that the heat has been moved to a less physically constrained location, the breadth of options available to accomplish that would be greatly increased, with options that would enable a much lower sound floor in the room it occupies.
The temperature difference between ambient and freshly laid down plastic is around 200°, I doubt an extra 10 would make any noticeable difference. Note I'm no nay sayer, i have a 30w vacuum cleaner turbo fan on mine
I agree. Just add a small compressor in the bottom of a printer and I wonder if the cold air could be more effective than just ramping up air velocity.
4:26 theres another advantage of moving cooling off of the toolhead - reducing noise. I know its loud now, but it would probably be much worse if it was on the toolhead
After finally buying a Bambu X1, I now need aomething that can keep up with it to replace my (albeit gracefully) aging X5s. This may actually be perfect.
I really want to buy one of these, but thus far the reviews have been pretty poor. The delta printer is just such an amazing thing to watch versus core-XY and bed-slingers. I think everybody kind of knew the advertised stats on this thing were pretty much BS when it came out. I mean, speed is cool, but not at the expense of quality. If I can slow this thing down to the speed of an X1C and have it match the results of the X1C, that would be fantastic! Alas, FLSUN have a lot of work to do on the UX before I can justify spending that much money. I think they just released a large update for the S1, so I'm hoping that corrects some of its issues. I suspect they pushed the machine to market before everything else was ready and now they're playing catch-up. As soon as there are good profiles in Orca for this machine and they fix/update the things that need it, this thing will be a lot of fun. As of right now, it looks like a lot of frustration in a pretty case.
yeah - thing about flsun is they tend to only release models every couple years, so they have historically ironed out a lot of the issues - most of which are software/settings. The ongoing lack of SSL access though, I am not a fan.
sorry if this has been posted already but the flow rate of the hot is not the same thing as the flow rate through the nozzle , the machine may well be able to extrude the claimed volume using a larger nozzle than 0.4mm
I started of with an Ender 3, like almost anyone. The second printer was the FLSun Super Racer. And here is the thing. If you want to tinker with your machine, go for those printers. It is just not a printer for running out of the box without tinkering. I am aware that the S1 and T1 are a step forward. It just feels like it is all a competition to be the fastest out there. I've run 4 printers like VORON and stuff. I sold all of them because I do not want to tinker and guess anymore what is it this time?!
With closed loop control you can basically drive steppers much harder and get more speed and accel out of the same size motor. Btw too bad that it doesn't have a heated chamber...
Its also some insurance on a delta that the machine doesn't kill itself. On a cartesian or core xy skipped steps aren't that bad, the printer will survive if its not made of drywall. On a delta tough skipping steps also introduces unintended movement in the z axis, which can definitely fuck up your toolhead or bed plate, especially with the beefy stepper motors, the SR was one of the first off the shelf printers that used 48mm ones for all axis, the v400 used 60mm ones, cheap stepper online ones peak at 80Ncm, which would translate into over 12kg of linear force per motor
Agreed on heated chamber missing from an otherwise very complete printer. There's active heating in the top with the filament anyway, so this is a head scratcher for sure...
To an extent, because any compensation for skips means less accuracy. Its a delicate balance. There is a point at which you just go BLDC rather than stepper.
High flow filament is needed and "extreme" (240C+) temps are needed to really push everything to high speeds. BASF has some nice high flow filaments although they cost a tad more.
7:52 110mm³ is e.g. 11mm × 10mm × 1mm. The play doh in the image is larger than that. Unless it's less than 0.5mm thick and just looks like it's more like 3mm. Don't get me wrong. It's impressive it can squeeze out a cubic cm in less than 10nseconds through a 0.4mm diameter orifice!
What is impressive is the quality achieved at those speeds. I have a Super Racer and extensive modding experience. I suspect FLSun got some ideas from my experiments, I know they were watching from all their comments on my videos. I can say they took what I did, refined it, and did it much better. I’d love to get my hands on a S1. I think I know how they can claim of 110mm3/s. I just want to see what the print looks like maxed out at 110mm3/s, 1200mm/s @ 40k acceleration. My Super Racer setup is maxed at 65mm3/s, 1000mm/s @ 23k acceleration, and that’s in a Bowden setup. @flsun send me an S1 and I’ll make a great in depth video review, plus I’ll continue modding so you can continue making amazing improvements.
Be interesting to find if there is enhanced wear on the printer through the high lateral forces of speedy printers. Do they up rate the components to cope with it?
In a Volcano hot-end, you can replace the Volcano nozzle with a copper plug and a v5/v6 nozzle and the performance should be the same as a regular volcano nozzle if not a little better. A bunch of companies sell a Volcano V6 adapter, which is exactly such a plug, with a little hex drive indent, made from copper and surface plated with something hard and shiny. CNC Kitchen made a vid where he made a brass adapter of this kind which had a CHT-like internal geometry and it has performed fairly well. This is apparently what they're basing the hotend geometry on here. LOVE the performance of the googly eyes on this end effector!
Cool movie. Although I will surprise you, because I still work on my Kossel Plus, which only has aluminum rails left. The rest is mine... FLSUN is the only company that defends the idea of DELTA printing. Because this idea has huge potential. As can be seen in subsequent iterations of this model. You can also use all these magic tricks from Bambu Labs and others here. The only drawback - and I also tested this - is the fact that it is difficult to print with soft filaments (e.g. TPU). But in general it's also possible.
Can you try printing a square/frame at max possible xy size? Delta printers are often dimensionally inaccurate, especially near the edges. A good result would be really impressive. Also they are using direct drive because any bowden tube for this print height would be insanely long. Not to mention that at these speeds pressure advance would need to put in a ridiculous amount of work. Bowden would massively reduce print quality and these days you can get a fairly light but still capable direct drive setup anyway.
Still loving my modded flsun Q5. Bolted a v400 direct drive extruder to it and even tried the speeds of the v400, wasn't half bad either! Some input shaping over correction on those speeds but still not bad at all. I usually run it quite conservative since I'd rather have to not attend my prints to see if they fail or not, but there certrainly is potential.
ive been pushing my v400 up to 950mm/sec lately cant wait to get my hands on one of these though flsun printers are abit too tall for me to work on being over half my height tall
What's the benchy print time? My computer case is almost 20kg and I figured it'd be no problem. Once fully built though, it's so big and bulky to the point of I have no idea how I'll move it elsewhere by myself.
Benchy print time is almost meaningless tbh. Even by sticking to the rules there's so many different settings you can do that will reduce the time and not even making the printer go faster. My Ender 3 can do around 8 minutes by only going 150mm/s and 15k Accel. Definitely didn't look as good as this one I will add but wasn't too far off.
Many 3D printer reviews including this one are skipping something that's really important. We need to know how well they included slicer profiles work. 3D printers more and more are going to become appliances and not hobby devices. With companies like prusa and now especially BL including profiles that essentially need no tweaking for most filaments that is the new norm and if a company doesn't provide that especially with a premium printer it's going to become more and more of a problem. I get that those of us that have been in the hobby for years can tune our own profiles that sort of thing seems to be going by the wayside.
While I agree first we should agree on standarts regarding profile files so that you can transfer profiles to "any" slicer easily. Like the standartization via ECMA to javascript over the years. Currently you can setup a profile in one slicer and good look that everything translates directly even within the PrusaSlicer descendents. And a more better profile manager for fialements too.. Currently you are more or less forced to edit them with a text editor if you want to specify hierarchies....
@@towlnator personally I don't really care about that. As long as the printer includes something that works properly that prints what needs to be printed then I consider that a success. When 3D printers inevitably become appliances people aren't going to care which slicer they're using they're just going to want to load a roll of filament load a model and get a part.
They are purportedly 36v servos, higher torque and better positional accuracy than an equivalent stepper. In the processes of converting my V400. Disappointed to hear the max flow is only 5mm/s3 higher than my modded V400
The Play-Doh analogy makes it look like you have mini hands:) A sphere of 110 mm^3 would have a diameter of 6mm so I'm thinking something is off there. Always enjoying the content btw!
The box he cut looks to be about 11X30X3 I'd say, so 990mm³ rough estimate? Perhaps it's actually 11X25X4 and I have bad perspective, which would make it 1,100mm³ instead? So yeah, I think he got 10X the volume he meant to.
Close-loop steppers are actually big deal. I've experience in manufucturing cnc routers. They can fix small deviations in position independently. Open-loop motors can't correct for 1-3 steps of deviation, but over time they can add up to major problem on print quality. Also in case of major fuck up, like layer shifts, it can stops print and notify the user to takes action. I think we'll see more close-loop motors in the future, as speed goes up and hype for "just work all the time, and it's smart enough to notify user if something is amiss" printers.
That inner geometry before the nozzle is the same concept as what I made a video about in January! Using my janky DIY version on my highest speed printer and I'm getting roughly the same results - 45-50mm/s^3 on a V6-length nozzle. But it scales well, so a Goliath that everyone knows so well could/should get much higher than the current 110mm/s^3 if it had the same.
That cpap is as loud as my first cpap machine over 20 years ago. They aren’t that loud anymore. Meanwhile the first time I heard they were using cpap machines for printers I wondered at what pressure?
@@kilianlindlbauer8277 I think peak pressure is ome of those stats thats misleading. You really want a chart shoeing the oressure at multiple flow rates because static pressure for instance is a pretty useless metric.
What I don't understand is a printer this size that's enclosed for that price and no chamber heater, unless the filament heater can be used as a chamber heater
@@LostInTech3D It's a big deal if you need to make parts that are strong out of anything other than PLA/TPU. A heated chamber also improves the print quality of ABS. I print flying models so good layer adhesion can mean the difference between a plane that breaks on landing and one that doesn't.
@@LostInTech3D I do think for $1300 on sale, it would be a worthwhile addition. The combination of a heated stationary bed, enclosure, filament dryer, high temperature hotend, and a heated chamber would make it would of the best options on the market for engineering type filaments.
Flsun T1 makes a lot more sense, the only thing im wondering about if you can upgrade to the S1 toolhead with LIDAR for "Flow Dynamics" and better material flow somehow
that's gonna happen next vid (1.0mm) but I dont know how I feel about flow rates being quoted for nozzles bigger than the one supplied. Very few people are going to want to use a 0.8 nozzle because they generally print terribly
I run my Superracers with Sherpa minis with volcano CHT on Klipper and part cooling is the only real limiting factor on speed. CPAP has been on the list for a minute... Good video. Been looking forward to the S1.
I would definitely buy an S1, but my basement is too damp and my office is right next to my bedroom. so, as long as I don't rent a printer room, it's probably not going to happen. the noise level is the exclusion criterion here.
You will get higher flow with ABS and possibly even PETG. I have an FLsun super racer that I have modded heavily, it has a goliath hotend Depending on the PLA I can get 35-45mm/s^3, but with PETG I can get 50-70mm/s^3 flow.
I think it depends on the PETG. Some folks say it's slower to print than PLA, but I've seen it can go faster. Have to print pretty hot though, and quality degrades. Never used ABS, but that should definitely be higher flow rate.
Creality have their K2 going out to customers for beta testing shortly, and this S1 will be in peoples hands shortly, I can see Bambu Lab coming out with something to give both of them the finger in a few weeks!
2:06 when you show the spec sheet is very hard to follow. It feels like you flash 100 colorful boxes on screen with tiny text and then say "look at the speed that I'm not going to tell you. I'm just going to assume you know the specs of the Bamboo X1 off the top of your head" while wiggling the mouse cursor over the "Bed max temp" figure and highlighting it. It's super disorienting and took me a moment to pause and replay before I got the information. That's bad editing.
just keep in mind that fan is more akin to berd air, as in relying on pressure. air speed exiting the duct is much higher than bare unpressurized cpap exhaust.
After time with a Qidi X-max 3, I'm done with big, fast printers that only hold one spool and have huge reverse bowden tubes. Changing spools, especially when you run out, is just too annoying.
Quite a nice review I should say. Honest, and showing some hardware details. Looks like FLSUN making its homework! But hey, modern approach is to sell multi-color waste add-ons, not super speed printers = ) I guess no one actually believe into super speeds anymore, as they are achievable only on special PLA plastics. And PETG is always printing slow. Something like 200mm/s But I love this hotend inner shape design, would love to install one on my Ender3 to use with ordinary nozzles. And external model cooler idea, this is interesting. Coolers are sure loud, as on most stock printers.
Hmmm... Alfa, Beta, Gamma, Delta... it's the fourth letter in the Greek Alphabet, but it looks like a triangle (Δ) and the printer does have 3 axes on which the gantry is fixed and when looked from above it's most similar to the Delta symbol. Thus it's a Delta printer, anyhow X,Y and Z are already taken by the rest of the printers.
the main issue for speed is the acceleration, talking with other people who have fast printers, 600mm/s but with 60k acceleration is much faster in most cases than my 1000mm/s T1 at 30k accel. if my math is correct anything under 66mm will spend all its time in acceleration and deceleration, and anything under 33mm will be capped at 500mm/s, and that's the case for a lot of prints. and the bed being pretty small (iirc you get an 18 cm square inside the 26cm circular base), you won't be printing large stuff where the high top speed matters that much.
It may be fast but it's too big to be appealing even to many (most) hobbyists... like the other deltas, it will be a niche in the 3D printing niche :) Like the Prusa XL, for other reasons.
Yeah so still got my original ender 3, genuinely can't afford to replace it at this point of my life, just broken my heater cartridge so switched to a revo. It's still slow but fl suns or bambo labs are just to expensive
How to make your S1 most Silent, easy 5 min mod, should sound like it is only using 60% but running at 100% - Take a extra cpap hose 15mm, take top cover off, use black electoral tape or 3d print a ring and insert into turbofan inlet. Tuck the hose under and around front of printer, under the cover, just enough room to tuck the hose, cut rest of hose off, insert hose inside top of the inside of printer at top, let part of it hang a few inches, it can pull air from inside printer. Now you can have it in your room easy if you use 60% fan. and this is enough, for 90% of the time it is pretty quiet. I'm leaving my top cover off for now.
It would need to be twice as fast, as I could buy two Bambu P1S for the cost, and they would take up less space. This looks really good, but I cn get work done faster on multiple printers.
I had the FLSUN SR ... messing with adjusting the belts after they stretch is such a headache.. I wouldn't recommend this printer unfortunately despite how good it may seem.
Not really a wow video. Nice printer thought. Btw why do you think mechanics changed last few tens of years so they are “not longer a bottlebeck” I have delta from like 8 yers ago and it prints with 200mm/sec. Bottlenecks are cooling, heating, extruder, input shaping etc, but not the kinematics
Thanx but no thanx. I had a FLSUN Super Racer and only had problems with it. I klipperized it, but Klipper also doesn't seem to be optimized for delta printers. I'd rather get a RatRig V4 instead.
At this size... You probably don't... But I own an Flsun Q5 with a round 200x200* build volume and there is no other type of printer that comes close to the desk footprint of this printer. Even a voron 0 takes up more desk space with a smaller build volume. As build volume increases the extra volume needed on the desk gets relatively smaller since the space needed around the build plate for corexy is relatively constant while the extra height needed for a delta is proportional to the max print volume...
This afternoon I was at my local printer shop and they had it on display and holy f*** it’s massive, in the video you can’t sense the sheer size of this printer.
Hahah yes, this. I was trying to give a sense of scale but I just couldn't.
@@LostInTech3DYou need to print banana to scale
@@LostInTech3D YGK3D's video about it has a thumbnail comparing it to the size of an X1 carbon, which gives a nice sense of scale.
Its more tall than massive. I think for individuals as along as it doesnt hit your ceiling its fine. I imagine it might be an issue if you are a space constrained print farm though.
Local printer shop? Man, I wish I had a local printer shop lmao
Effector term is actually using in robotics. With end-effectors robot can interact with things and do its job.
I like that Lost is reluctantly becoming an OrcaSlicer stan despite his best efforts.
Needs to change his name to Lost in Orca
Ive always had a soft spot for delta printers, they just look so cool haha
Love my FLSUN Super Racer. I have other printers but there’s something about watching a delta printer that is artistic as opposed to strictly mechanical/technical.
Agree. One of these days I'll do something with my monoprice deltas too.
I run two SRs with Klipper and Sherpa minis and they're my favorite out of a dozen different printers over the years.
I have a super racer, too. ❤
same! I have 3 FLSUN deltas they are fast and cool to watch
@@LostInTech3DI no longer have my Monoprice delta and I regret it. That thing was so cool
i feel like closed loop makes the most sense on a delta where every absolute position relies on all three motors being "in sync"
My experience with high flow PLA is that it mostly gets you more consistent print finish (glossy) than regular PLA. I don’t think it’s going to allow you to max out the flow rate. For testing the limits of flow, you should use ABS.
Ive always kinda disliked abs for that yellow film it leaves on everything. I want a printer with a good enough filter that there is no film.
This is why I like polycarbonate or tpu a lot more when I want high strength.
That cht style hotend is beautiful. Absolutely lovely that it uses common v6 nozzles since those are available in possibly the most varieties, and lots of affordable options, which seems silly off buying a $1500 printer, but Im glad flsun doesn't have us wasting money on proprietary nozzles.
Makes sense they went with the turbo blower style fan. Following what aftermarket speed racers have been doing. That hotend performance is impressive, but I'm not surprised it doesn't hit 110mm³/s as the highest I've seen from almost any off the shelf printer is in like the 40s. I imagine it may be more of a "peak" rating like how they will rate battery Amperage while the "continuous" rating is more like 30-40mm³/s in reality. That, or you have to use the perfect filament at the perfect temperature to attain that rating. Just between different PLA filaments in my flow rate testing the max effective rate could vary all the way from 20mm³/s to 30mm³/s and beyond all on the same setup. Wow though, the T1 is WAY cheaper than the S1. $600 vs $1300 at current pricing. It does seem like an impressive machine. I'm not surprised they went with direct drive, as it's pretty necessary for good accuracy with all filaments at high speeds in a modern printer. Proves my theory that people freaking out over every gram of weight on the printhead in a delta were overreacting a bit too. Although a friend just brought up a good point, that at least until recently, input shaping wasn't really a thing for Delta. Print results seem really solid for those speeds, though I'd have to see more prints at various speeds up close to really know. Some of the best googly eyes yet! I think the Q1 Pro is still at the top of my list for now, but the T1 on a deep sale would be very intriguing.
Yeah the T1 is lower than the v400 I think???
@@LostInTech3D Wow, direct from FLSun yeah, $599 vs $753 whatever that pricing is, hahaha.
being able to actively see the print grow is insane o-o
My S1 will arrive next week , thanks for your sharing, great video
Would love to see what accelerometer graphs look like on this. On V400 it was kinda meh because of the connection of the arms to the effector (held by a spring and flimsy as hell) and I noticed they've done some work in that regard.
hmm yeah I noticed the bolts
I've been waiting for this since November.
the vid or the machine? hehe
@@LostInTech3D The machine, if it's good. The video, if it's not.
I sorta expected it to be late, the v400 followed the same schedule I recall.
I wish the build plate was a bit bigger based on the footprint, but really cool how fast it is.
One thing about the hotend. The Goliath Hotend (mainly used on VzBots) also use V6 nozzles. And can achive a Flowrate of 110mm^3/s. The UA-camr Vez3d has a video about it.
I hope we see more of this kind of standard nozzle / custom heatbreak thing.
@@LostInTech3D Yes i hope that too. Because there are so many different types of for example V6 nozzles and also manufacturer of them so you can choose exactly what fits you the best. Also i don't want to be bond to the manufacturer of the Printer i bought to buy there custom nozzles or nozzle-heatbreak Combo.
cant wait for the vzdelta too, i know simon is in development for a delta aswell
The Goliath hotend is a great design for high flow/ high speed. It’s great to see that you don’t need a CHT style nozzle to achieve high flow with FLSuns design, and that you can use standard nozzles. Even if it doesn’t make 110mm3/s all the time (there is one configuration that hits this metric), it’s still a huge design win in my opinion.
I would much rather a standard sleeve because I hate hot tightening. All my homies hate hot tightening.
I have already do the control of outer and inner bed in OrcaSlicer. If the model does not exceed the inner ring then only the inner ring is heated, if it encroaches on the outer ring then the inner ring and outer ring are heated automatically.
Oh hey! Nice! 👍
Ah man I dont need this at all but gosh do I want it.
Love their block design with CHT inspired channels as well. Nice way to bypass the patent and makes any nozzle high flow. Would love to see a high flow nozzle added to the end of it.
Whats pricing for this?
Perhaps i can save up and treat myself for christmas.
Then i have my Kobra 2 max for big stuff and this for stuff i want ASAP.
After the recent firmware update, my S1 works fine , and they told me that there will be updates soon, I hope my S1 will get better and better . So far for multicolor I go to my P1s and for speed I use my Flsun S1 .
The print quality and speed look great; I can't wait to get one!
I would love to see an aftermarket mod for this that pushes cold air into the tool head for cooling and reduces noise. Maybe like a miniature air conditioner. You would still need to cool the air conditioner's radiator, but now that the heat has been moved to a less physically constrained location, the breadth of options available to accomplish that would be greatly increased, with options that would enable a much lower sound floor in the room it occupies.
The temperature difference between ambient and freshly laid down plastic is around 200°, I doubt an extra 10 would make any noticeable difference. Note I'm no nay sayer, i have a 30w vacuum cleaner turbo fan on mine
I agree. Just add a small compressor in the bottom of a printer and I wonder if the cold air could be more effective than just ramping up air velocity.
Thermal electric tiles to heat bed and cool print simultaneously? Only setback would be ducting chilled air from the bed to effector.
Great video man, best S1 video yet. Please do a following up ep 2!
4:26 theres another advantage of moving cooling off of the toolhead - reducing noise. I know its loud now, but it would probably be much worse if it was on the toolhead
After finally buying a Bambu X1, I now need aomething that can keep up with it to replace my (albeit gracefully) aging X5s.
This may actually be perfect.
I really want to buy one of these, but thus far the reviews have been pretty poor. The delta printer is just such an amazing thing to watch versus core-XY and bed-slingers. I think everybody kind of knew the advertised stats on this thing were pretty much BS when it came out. I mean, speed is cool, but not at the expense of quality. If I can slow this thing down to the speed of an X1C and have it match the results of the X1C, that would be fantastic! Alas, FLSUN have a lot of work to do on the UX before I can justify spending that much money. I think they just released a large update for the S1, so I'm hoping that corrects some of its issues. I suspect they pushed the machine to market before everything else was ready and now they're playing catch-up. As soon as there are good profiles in Orca for this machine and they fix/update the things that need it, this thing will be a lot of fun. As of right now, it looks like a lot of frustration in a pretty case.
yeah - thing about flsun is they tend to only release models every couple years, so they have historically ironed out a lot of the issues - most of which are software/settings.
The ongoing lack of SSL access though, I am not a fan.
sorry if this has been posted already but the flow rate of the hot is not the same thing as the flow rate through the nozzle , the machine may well be able to extrude the claimed volume using a larger nozzle than 0.4mm
I started of with an Ender 3, like almost anyone. The second printer was the FLSun Super Racer. And here is the thing. If you want to tinker with your machine, go for those printers. It is just not a printer for running out of the box without tinkering. I am aware that the S1 and T1 are a step forward. It just feels like it is all a competition to be the fastest out there.
I've run 4 printers like VORON and stuff. I sold all of them because I do not want to tinker and guess anymore what is it this time?!
With closed loop control you can basically drive steppers much harder and get more speed and accel out of the same size motor.
Btw too bad that it doesn't have a heated chamber...
Its also some insurance on a delta that the machine doesn't kill itself. On a cartesian or core xy skipped steps aren't that bad, the printer will survive if its not made of drywall. On a delta tough skipping steps also introduces unintended movement in the z axis, which can definitely fuck up your toolhead or bed plate, especially with the beefy stepper motors, the SR was one of the first off the shelf printers that used 48mm ones for all axis, the v400 used 60mm ones, cheap stepper online ones peak at 80Ncm, which would translate into over 12kg of linear force per motor
I wonder if the turbofan is pulling air from outside the chamber or recirculating air from inside.
Agreed on heated chamber missing from an otherwise very complete printer. There's active heating in the top with the filament anyway, so this is a head scratcher for sure...
From outside
To an extent, because any compensation for skips means less accuracy. Its a delicate balance.
There is a point at which you just go BLDC rather than stepper.
High flow filament is needed and "extreme" (240C+) temps are needed to really push everything to high speeds. BASF has some nice high flow filaments although they cost a tad more.
7:52 110mm³ is e.g. 11mm × 10mm × 1mm. The play doh in the image is larger than that. Unless it's less than 0.5mm thick and just looks like it's more like 3mm.
Don't get me wrong. It's impressive it can squeeze out a cubic cm in less than 10nseconds through a 0.4mm diameter orifice!
The mystery light bars on the front panel are status lights. If it has an error they glow reddish orange. (Sorry, forgot to take a photo.)
What is impressive is the quality achieved at those speeds. I have a Super Racer and extensive modding experience. I suspect FLSun got some ideas from my experiments, I know they were watching from all their comments on my videos. I can say they took what I did, refined it, and did it much better. I’d love to get my hands on a S1. I think I know how they can claim of 110mm3/s. I just want to see what the print looks like maxed out at 110mm3/s, 1200mm/s @ 40k acceleration. My Super Racer setup is maxed at 65mm3/s, 1000mm/s @ 23k acceleration, and that’s in a Bowden setup. @flsun send me an S1 and I’ll make a great in depth video review, plus I’ll continue modding so you can continue making amazing improvements.
Love the 80’s music at the start of the video. Those googley eye were going crazy 😜
Nearly 80 db at full beans is wild. Delta printers look dope AF tho
Be interesting to find if there is enhanced wear on the printer through the high lateral forces of speedy printers. Do they up rate the components to cope with it?
I hope they used thread locker at least 😂
In a Volcano hot-end, you can replace the Volcano nozzle with a copper plug and a v5/v6 nozzle and the performance should be the same as a regular volcano nozzle if not a little better.
A bunch of companies sell a Volcano V6 adapter, which is exactly such a plug, with a little hex drive indent, made from copper and surface plated with something hard and shiny.
CNC Kitchen made a vid where he made a brass adapter of this kind which had a CHT-like internal geometry and it has performed fairly well. This is apparently what they're basing the hotend geometry on here.
LOVE the performance of the googly eyes on this end effector!
I have one of those adapters somewhere from mellow.
Never used it.
Cool movie. Although I will surprise you, because I still work on my Kossel Plus, which only has aluminum rails left. The rest is mine...
FLSUN is the only company that defends the idea of DELTA printing. Because this idea has huge potential. As can be seen in subsequent iterations of this model.
You can also use all these magic tricks from Bambu Labs and others here.
The only drawback - and I also tested this - is the fact that it is difficult to print with soft filaments (e.g. TPU). But in general it's also possible.
Can you try printing a square/frame at max possible xy size? Delta printers are often dimensionally inaccurate, especially near the edges. A good result would be really impressive.
Also they are using direct drive because any bowden tube for this print height would be insanely long. Not to mention that at these speeds pressure advance would need to put in a ridiculous amount of work. Bowden would massively reduce print quality and these days you can get a fairly light but still capable direct drive setup anyway.
Still loving my modded flsun Q5.
Bolted a v400 direct drive extruder to it and even tried the speeds of the v400, wasn't half bad either! Some input shaping over correction on those speeds but still not bad at all.
I usually run it quite conservative since I'd rather have to not attend my prints to see if they fail or not, but there certrainly is potential.
ive been pushing my v400 up to 950mm/sec lately
cant wait to get my hands on one of these
though flsun printers are abit too tall for me to work on being over half my height tall
What's the benchy print time?
My computer case is almost 20kg and I figured it'd be no problem. Once fully built though, it's so big and bulky to the point of I have no idea how I'll move it elsewhere by myself.
9 mins ish and yeah everyone can lift 46kg until they try and injure themselves 😅
Note that this benchy did not follow speed benchy rules so its not comparable with others.
Add caster wheels and roll it on the floor? This is not going to be a desk computer i don't think.
@SianaGearz that's not the worst idea actually!
Benchy print time is almost meaningless tbh. Even by sticking to the rules there's so many different settings you can do that will reduce the time and not even making the printer go faster. My Ender 3 can do around 8 minutes by only going 150mm/s and 15k Accel. Definitely didn't look as good as this one I will add but wasn't too far off.
Many 3D printer reviews including this one are skipping something that's really important. We need to know how well they included slicer profiles work. 3D printers more and more are going to become appliances and not hobby devices. With companies like prusa and now especially BL including profiles that essentially need no tweaking for most filaments that is the new norm and if a company doesn't provide that especially with a premium printer it's going to become more and more of a problem. I get that those of us that have been in the hobby for years can tune our own profiles that sort of thing seems to be going by the wayside.
While I agree first we should agree on standarts regarding profile files so that you can transfer profiles to "any" slicer easily. Like the standartization via ECMA to javascript over the years. Currently you can setup a profile in one slicer and good look that everything translates directly even within the PrusaSlicer descendents. And a more better profile manager for fialements too.. Currently you are more or less forced to edit them with a text editor if you want to specify hierarchies....
@@towlnator personally I don't really care about that. As long as the printer includes something that works properly that prints what needs to be printed then I consider that a success. When 3D printers inevitably become appliances people aren't going to care which slicer they're using they're just going to want to load a roll of filament load a model and get a part.
They are purportedly 36v servos, higher torque and better positional accuracy than an equivalent stepper. In the processes of converting my V400.
Disappointed to hear the max flow is only 5mm/s3 higher than my modded V400
The Play-Doh analogy makes it look like you have mini hands:) A sphere of 110 mm^3 would have a diameter of 6mm so I'm thinking something is off there. Always enjoying the content btw!
6mm sounds about right? Just under a cm. I probably was slightly out, my play doh skills are pretty much on par with a toddler 😂
The box he cut looks to be about 11X30X3 I'd say, so 990mm³ rough estimate? Perhaps it's actually 11X25X4 and I have bad perspective, which would make it 1,100mm³ instead? So yeah, I think he got 10X the volume he meant to.
Thank you Detective Lost! I look forward to your deeper dive!
Please, could you tell us what's the arms length on this one?
Close-loop steppers are actually big deal. I've experience in manufucturing cnc routers.
They can fix small deviations in position independently. Open-loop motors can't correct for 1-3 steps of deviation, but over time they can add up to major problem on print quality.
Also in case of major fuck up, like layer shifts, it can stops print and notify the user to takes action. I think we'll see more close-loop motors in the future, as speed goes up and hype for "just work all the time, and it's smart enough to notify user if something is amiss" printers.
That inner geometry before the nozzle is the same concept as what I made a video about in January! Using my janky DIY version on my highest speed printer and I'm getting roughly the same results - 45-50mm/s^3 on a V6-length nozzle. But it scales well, so a Goliath that everyone knows so well could/should get much higher than the current 110mm/s^3 if it had the same.
interesting. How did you make yours?
closed loop makes it so if you hit something and skip a step it will continue the print instead of layer shifting.
at least in theory.
That cpap is as loud as my first cpap machine over 20 years ago. They aren’t that loud anymore.
Meanwhile the first time I heard they were using cpap machines for printers I wondered at what pressure?
Mellows ws7040 has 7kPa peak pressure and 26m3/h peak air flow i think. Would have to check again
@@kilianlindlbauer8277 I think peak pressure is ome of those stats thats misleading.
You really want a chart shoeing the oressure at multiple flow rates because static pressure for instance is a pretty useless metric.
Question:
Crazy speed = Poor layer-adhesion ??
It certainly can be, but it's a secondary effect from poor heating I think
What I don't understand is a printer this size that's enclosed for that price and no chamber heater, unless the filament heater can be used as a chamber heater
controversial take: chamber heaters just aren't that big a deal for most peoples use cases.
@@LostInTech3D yeah but it doesn't cost that much to add 1 and it sure does make printing exotic filaments a whole hell of a lot easier
It has a built-in filament dryer so does that heat get blown into the chamber?
@@LostInTech3D It's a big deal if you need to make parts that are strong out of anything other than PLA/TPU. A heated chamber also improves the print quality of ABS. I print flying models so good layer adhesion can mean the difference between a plane that breaks on landing and one that doesn't.
@@LostInTech3D I do think for $1300 on sale, it would be a worthwhile addition. The combination of a heated stationary bed, enclosure, filament dryer, high temperature hotend, and a heated chamber would make it would of the best options on the market for engineering type filaments.
Flsun T1 makes a lot more sense, the only thing im wondering about if you can upgrade to the S1 toolhead with LIDAR for "Flow Dynamics" and better material flow somehow
flsun or bambulab for making functionnal quality parts?
Either I think
No heated chamber? How does it go with ABS?
Should go fine - you wouldn't want to print super fast though.
How long is the meltzone on the S1
how does it do PETG?
Generally slower, as is the nature of petg
Try a 0.8 mm nozzle to get the higher flow rate of 110 m3 maybe. Would be interesting to see how it handles bigger nozzle sizes.
that's gonna happen next vid (1.0mm) but I dont know how I feel about flow rates being quoted for nozzles bigger than the one supplied. Very few people are going to want to use a 0.8 nozzle because they generally print terribly
I would love a side by side test with the X1C bambu lab - because they are near in the pricerange and target group.
110 mm3/s with which nozzle? maybe 0.8 mm or 1.0 mm it's doable.
We'll find out 😁 in the diamondback episode
I run my Superracers with Sherpa minis with volcano CHT on Klipper and part cooling is the only real limiting factor on speed. CPAP has been on the list for a minute... Good video. Been looking forward to the S1.
Solid video, goos use of text as well and decent information. Looking forward to the bext video about this printer
I would definitely buy an S1, but my basement is too damp and my office is right next to my bedroom. so, as long as I don't rent a printer room, it's probably not going to happen. the noise level is the exclusion criterion here.
want to see a CHT diamondback on this, ASAP
yah I think it's gotta be done.
do you have T1 as well for testing?
interested in that one :)
(nwm, should have watch whole video)
Yeah still no update on that
You will get higher flow with ABS and possibly even PETG. I have an FLsun super racer that I have modded heavily, it has a goliath hotend Depending on the PLA I can get 35-45mm/s^3, but with PETG I can get 50-70mm/s^3 flow.
yes probably, although I never have a lot of luck printing PETG at fast speeds.
I think it depends on the PETG. Some folks say it's slower to print than PLA, but I've seen it can go faster. Have to print pretty hot though, and quality degrades. Never used ABS, but that should definitely be higher flow rate.
@@LostInTech3D Roger that, I have only had luck with larger practical parts and larger layers.
The only problem for me is no heated chamber like the s max 3
Creality have their K2 going out to customers for beta testing shortly, and this S1 will be in peoples hands shortly, I can see Bambu Lab coming out with something to give both of them the finger in a few weeks!
The panda has been a little too silent recently
2:06 when you show the spec sheet is very hard to follow. It feels like you flash 100 colorful boxes on screen with tiny text and then say "look at the speed that I'm not going to tell you. I'm just going to assume you know the specs of the Bamboo X1 off the top of your head" while wiggling the mouse cursor over the "Bed max temp" figure and highlighting it. It's super disorienting and took me a moment to pause and replay before I got the information. That's bad editing.
Sometimes it's better to finish than to spend all your time perfecting the solution, so, granted.
@@LostInTech3D I get it. It's easier to criticize than it is to create. Don't let me get you down. Keep up the good work!
Thanks for including the cpap exhaust verlocity, I needed that data to compare.
just keep in mind that fan is more akin to berd air, as in relying on pressure. air speed exiting the duct is much higher than bare unpressurized cpap exhaust.
@@CrazyT0sser Sure, I just want to compare to my own fan connected to a similar hose. All in the ballpark precision range.
@@hurzelgnurk i see, i do wonder if it's the same generic wonsmart 7040 too
And here I am with my Flsun I3+ from 2019 or so... x)
Great video, looking forward to the next
Did you contact them about the test you did for the mvs?
Not yet
@@LostInTech3D ok.
If you can keep us posted for any new information and I'll be waiting for your next video about it.
After time with a Qidi X-max 3, I'm done with big, fast printers that only hold one spool and have huge reverse bowden tubes. Changing spools, especially when you run out, is just too annoying.
Interesting comment. What's the alternative for you then? Just curious thanks.
Less of a problem here because the spool is on the front but yeah, big printers with rear spools are ... interesting
hI, THE FLOW of a hotend is not determined by the nozzle, it's determined by the length of the meltzone which starts before the nozzle :) nice video!!
it's so weird that they're using a standard v6 nozzle and not a volcano like on the v400.
Quite a nice review I should say. Honest, and showing some hardware details. Looks like FLSUN making its homework!
But hey, modern approach is to sell multi-color waste add-ons, not super speed printers = )
I guess no one actually believe into super speeds anymore, as they are achievable only on special PLA plastics. And PETG is always printing slow. Something like 200mm/s
But I love this hotend inner shape design, would love to install one on my Ender3 to use with ordinary nozzles. And external model cooler idea, this is interesting. Coolers are sure loud, as on most stock printers.
Hmmm... Alfa, Beta, Gamma, Delta... it's the fourth letter in the Greek Alphabet, but it looks like a triangle (Δ) and the printer does have 3 axes on which the gantry is fixed and when looked from above it's most similar to the Delta symbol. Thus it's a Delta printer, anyhow X,Y and Z are already taken by the rest of the printers.
Sunlu nearly burnt my house down with there filadryer s4
Always have some fear for those heaters made of plastic.
the main issue for speed is the acceleration, talking with other people who have fast printers, 600mm/s but with 60k acceleration is much faster in most cases than my 1000mm/s T1 at 30k accel.
if my math is correct anything under 66mm will spend all its time in acceleration and deceleration, and anything under 33mm will be capped at 500mm/s, and that's the case for a lot of prints.
and the bed being pretty small (iirc you get an 18 cm square inside the 26cm circular base), you won't be printing large stuff where the high top speed matters that much.
Oh, a succulent cameo appearance!
This video begs a question, if I can buy a cheap laser rule from the hardware store, why do printers use all the other stuff ?😳
Very Good Review !!!
Thank you...
So, the S1, made of mostly lead ?
Apparently 😅
The putty looked more like a cubic centimeter which would be some 1000mm cubed.
A cube 5x5x5mm would be 125 cubic millimeters, already bigger than 110.
A cm is 10mm. So 10*10*10mm = 10mm³. 1000 would be impressive though. Or am I wrong here?
@@drstefankrank 10*10*10 is 1000
@@drstefankrankand 10x1x1 would be 10mm3, 10x10x1 is 100mm3
@@philippeholthuizen Well, so I'm just bad at math.
It may be fast but it's too big to be appealing even to many (most) hobbyists... like the other deltas, it will be a niche in the 3D printing niche :)
Like the Prusa XL, for other reasons.
That's why the T1 is the better choice for those people
Yeah so still got my original ender 3, genuinely can't afford to replace it at this point of my life, just broken my heater cartridge so switched to a revo.
It's still slow but fl suns or bambo labs are just to expensive
How to make your S1 most Silent, easy 5 min mod, should sound like it is only using 60% but running at 100% - Take a extra cpap hose 15mm, take top cover off, use black electoral tape or 3d print a ring and insert into turbofan inlet. Tuck the hose under and around front of printer, under the cover, just enough room to tuck the hose, cut rest of hose off, insert hose inside top of the inside of printer at top, let part of it hang a few inches, it can pull air from inside printer. Now you can have it in your room easy if you use 60% fan. and this is enough, for 90% of the time it is pretty quiet. I'm leaving my top cover off for now.
wait it's 100 pounds?!? great to see a new generation of deltas. will wait for the 1st batch blues to be smoothed over.
It would need to be twice as fast, as I could buy two Bambu P1S for the cost, and they would take up less space. This looks really good, but I cn get work done faster on multiple printers.
Faster than my AWD Voron 0.2?
Slower than my 2wd voron 0.2.
We already know that is fast, but is it precise? Can I make an exactly 200 x 200 x 200 mm cube? Asking for a friend.
define exactly
@@LostInTech3D 200.000 mm
my v400 was also inacurate, no matter Klipper delta calibration, perhaps a califlower could be printed to verify
Deltas are so back
I'd love to see a comparison, a 24 hour ender 3 print vs this!
haha I'll see what I can do maybe
thank you for good caption
I had the FLSUN SR ... messing with adjusting the belts after they stretch is such a headache.. I wouldn't recommend this printer unfortunately despite how good it may seem.
At those noise levels, I really wouldn't want it in the house. Even at half speed, 71dB is still pretty noisy.
Not really a wow video.
Nice printer thought. Btw why do you think mechanics changed last few tens of years so they are “not longer a bottlebeck”
I have delta from like 8 yers ago and it prints with 200mm/sec. Bottlenecks are cooling, heating, extruder, input shaping etc, but not the kinematics
Thanx but no thanx. I had a FLSUN Super Racer and only had problems with it. I klipperized it, but Klipper also doesn't seem to be optimized for delta printers.
I'd rather get a RatRig V4 instead.
Anyone ever tell you, you sound like James Bruton?
They haven't 😂 same accent I guess
Do we really still need Deltas? They take up so much vertical space.
what are you using vertical space for? :D
@@LostInTech3Dbroomstick collecting obviously!
You might not. I certainly do! #deltalife
@@LostInTech3D Well to hang your 3D printed airplanes in all that useful space above your Bambu Lab printer of course!
At this size... You probably don't...
But I own an Flsun Q5 with a round 200x200* build volume and there is no other type of printer that comes close to the desk footprint of this printer. Even a voron 0 takes up more desk space with a smaller build volume.
As build volume increases the extra volume needed on the desk gets relatively smaller since the space needed around the build plate for corexy is relatively constant while the extra height needed for a delta is proportional to the max print volume...