Steve House Packing for an Overnight Alpine Climb
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- Опубліковано 28 жов 2017
- Alpinist and uphillathlete.com co-founder Steve House discusses his packing methodology for most overnight alpine climbing objectives.
For more information and videos visit www.uphillathlete.com - Спорт
The sleeping pad in the back sleeve is an amazing idea I never thought of that!
I will do my first overnight winter session in the white mountains, NH this season and that was very helpful regarding the "for more than 1 overnight day, I use a synthetic bag, unless I have time to dry my down bag."
Great for climbing AND FOR BIKEPACKING AS WELL. Thanks for an outstandingly clear presentation!
Thanks for the video, loved all the extra insight of methods and systems you use.
Excellent video Steve, thanks for everything you are doing including having this training site up. It was a pleasure meeting you this past weekend at the ADK Intl Mtn Fest, I enjoyed your slideshow and learning about this site. Its outstanding that professional climbers like yourself and so many others give back by sharing and teaching. Hope to get in your clinic next time!
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As a complete beginner this help so much.
Thank you.
Fantastic video! Love all the little details you shared that you have learned from a lifetime in the mountians. So valuable! I will be doing my first multi day alpine route soon and the information you just unloaded on me will be super valuable and save some grams/oz!
Love the book and all your vids! Keep it up!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Great advice here, thanks for sharing. Would be good to see another video showing your current clothing set up.
Great video steve. Would be good to see some more training videos! I'm waiting for 'Training for the uphill athlete' to get delivered! Cant wait to read it
There are more here: www.uphillathlete.com/category/videos/
I have been packing in this way for 2-3 seasons. The advice how to fill in sleeping bag is really helpfull, avoiding empty zones and getting much more volume out of backpack.
Have a nice day
Thanks for this so much!!!
Steve House, you were my guide on an AAI trip to Ecuador in Dec 97. We went to Cayambe but weather prevented us from climbing. Then we climbed Cotopaxi and Chimborazo. We spent New Year's Eve in Banos. Brendan Cusick was the other guide. I went on another AAI trip to Bolivia in Aug 99 and coincidentally Brendan was the main guide for that trip.
Hi Ben! I remember that trip and I remember that being a pretty interesting new years eve. Brendan lives on the other side of the mountain from me, about 90 minutes south, in Durango, and has a beautiful daughter now. We've been trying to get together for a ski tour this winter but it hasn't happened yet. Glad to hear from you. -Steve
NYE in Banos is fantastic. Did you go to the Banos "Hard Rock Cafe"?
Nice video, Thanks
Thanks Steve. Always fun to see how others pack, and what they choose to pack. Curious about the new parka - does it size the same as the DAS? I’ve had a couple versions of DAS parka, warm and roomy, so it fits over everything, but also rather bulky to pack.
HI Matty. Size in terms of fit? If that's what you mean it is still sized to fit over a shell jacket with a layer or two underneath as it is a purpose-built belay parka. I've always worn a medium in the DAS and now the hyperpuff. The hyperpuff fit is more 'sculpted' there is more shape to the pattern. That said, it basically fits over everything. I'm getting a lot of questions about this so maybe I should do a compare/contrast DAS/Hyperpuff video...
The insulation is new. It's stiff out of the package but it does soften up. The trade off is that if it's soft to begin with it breaks down faster. This insulation should hold up to time and stuffing/unstuffing better than the DAS did. We built on some of the patterning lessons the Forge learned in building out the Grade 7 Down parka. And that saved some weight. We're down to 526g/18.5oz vs the last DAS was 669g/23.6oz. That's a 25% reduction in weight. Big savings.
In terms of compressibility I'd say it's about the same. The Hyperpuff may even be bigger when it's brand new. But I put mine in a compression stuffsack for a couple days and since then it's been softer and significantly more compressible. Hope that helps. Steve H.
Uphillathlete that’s exactly what I was curious about: the fit. I thought it seemed rather slim fitting when compared to the DAS, which I wear a medium. Thanks, and keep on keeping on!
more of this for us nerds
Loved this version of the ascensionist. Used mine for a year before offing it, though, because the side compression straps weren't long enough for a z rest/ridgerest :( Otherwise superb pack
Hi Steve , Great vid. What type / brand of socks do you use ? Thanks
Patagonia socks, of course. -Steve H.
Hello Steve, thank you for this very informative video. You say you put the heaviest items on the bottom of your pack? I was always told to put the heaviest on top so the weight goes into the frame to the hip belt. How easy is it for you to get things you need if you have your sleeping bag stuff on top of your other items?
Keep in mind that I am talking about packing for multi-day technical alpine climbing routes so the order in which you come to things as you unpack is very important.
The sleeping bag is not in a stuffsack, it's "pre-rigged" inside the bivy sack and that is stuffed along the outside (farthest side away from your back) of the backpack to compress and hold the rest of the gear against your back. It works quite well. Be sure to start stuffing the foot of the bag/bivy sack first.
The best place for heavy items is actually in the middle of the pack up against your back. This is the most stable position which keeps your center of gravity closest to your body and allows balanced load sharing between hip and shoulder straps for climbing. When backpacking over non-technical terrain, having weight at the top of your pack can feel more comfortable than having it at the bottom, but this also makes you top-heavy which can be dangerous on technical terrain.
Great video. Got quite a few pointers 👍🏻👍🏻 What kind of Neo Air do you use, there are several models to choose from. Thanks in advance from Norway 🇳🇴
I like the old (now discontinued) square neo airs the best. I usually use what they call the "3 season" version but I inflate it with as much air as my lungs can get in there, the more air, the warmer.
Uphillathlete - Thank you for your answer. You mentioned that you use a synthetic sleeping bag when venturing on multiple day climbs. As synthetic bags are usually heavier, and takes up more space, I’m very interested in what kind of synthetic bag you use? Do you use a larger volume back pack when using a synthetic bag? 🇳🇴
You can get the new Xtherm line in a square form factor now, plus it has almost double the R-value as the Xlite for only a few ounces more weight. The square shape is really nice in winter to keep you from touching the cold ground while you sleep, but it can be an issue with some tapered-shape tents if you and your tent mate both have square pads.
Hi Steve, thanks for putting together this video, it is quite helpful and has a lot of good tips. One question for you - Do you ever use water bladders / "hydration systems" when alpine climbing, or do you prefer water bottles? And can you explain why? Thanks!
I don't use bladders with tubes because they are prone to leakage and freezing. I use the msr dromodary (superlite version) bag sometimes,, those things are great. but the small cap needs to be taped to a cord so it can't be lost. Learned that one the hard way on an FA on King Peak in the yukon in 1997!
I used to. And then a two liter bladder leaked inside my pack during a big climb in Pakistan. It soaked all our gear and forced us to turn back. We did not climb (unclimbed 7,000 meter peak) because that bladder leaked all over our gear. I do often use the MSR bladders, but without a hose and I tape a cord to the cap so it can't be dropped.
Hey Steve excellent video. What kind of Neo Air do you have?
I am not sure what the name is. I'll have to check.
Steve, A question for you on a related video, if I may? Quite a few years ago, you had a similar "What's in my pack" UA-cam video for your Nanga Parbat climb. However, it does not appear to be on UA-cam anymore, and the link I had for it does not work. No worries if you decided to take it down, but if it's something that you still want distributed, can you say if it is available at any other link, or your own website, or something like that? Thanks!
Bummer that is gone. It was on the patagonia youtube channel but it seems to be gone. i'll email Stuart who I did that with, he still works there.
Great advices for beginner picking up gears! Any idea how to accommodate this to three days or longer climb?
Really the only thing that changes much is food and fuel, and therefore pack size.
Neat and concise. Thanks. The bivi bag looks like a Rab survival zone or similar, ie not goretex but treated nylon, lighter than goretex. Im guessing.
It's a discontinued BD "winter bivy", not goretex. Goretex is horrible for colderbivyies as the moisture hits the membrane and freezes. -SH
at exactly 10:30 a valuable protein bar does not make it into the pack...this could be a critical mistake.
For questions about this video please visit our forum found here: uphillathlete.com/forums/
Awesome video. I'm curious, what bivy sack is that?
It is a Black Diamond "Winter Bivy" from about 10 years ago. I don't think they've made it in a long time. but it is a good one. It is not waterproof, but I don't want that for winter climbing. I want some breathability and winter weather protection. I've used this bivy sack a lot. -Steve H.
I generally like this. I'll have to think about that idea of the sleeping bag not being in its own stuff sack. Here in NZ, our approaches are often above freezing temperatures (i.e. potential to be WET). I noted that there seems to be nothing for dealing with solid waste when nature calls, or any type of first aid kit? Thanks for the video.
I spent a lot of time climbing in the Cascade Range, an equally wet place. WE would line our entire pack with a trash compactor bag sized to the pack. Then place everything inside that. Critical items would be double-bagged. If wetness is a big concern then I would use a stuffsack for my sleeping bag. First aid kit, beyond the scope of this video. Nature calls: snow. Thanks for watching. -Steve H
Steve! I read your book Beyond the Mountain, and just finished SOLO Nanga Parbat by Reinhold Messner. I absolutely love mountains myself, though I'm not an ice climber, and not too much of a rock climber (I've done Gannett Peak at most so far). I want to climb a Himalayan mountain like Nanga though. But it's hard with a career that is not one sponsored by outdoor gear companies. What is generally the best way to get there? I suppose it's being the best. Anyhow, thanks for the inspiration you give so many. Hope to hear back from you!
Hi Nicholas-One of the big misconceptions about himalayan climbing is that it has to be very expensive. I think the most $$ I ever spent for a himalayan expedition, including airfare, was US$8,000 and that was one summer where I attempted four different peaks. Typically the costs were more like US$5-6,000. Our budget for Nanga Parbat for Vince and I was $10,000 total. We shared the permit cost with one other team of two that attempted the Schell Route. The more difficult thing is time. Himalayan climbing takes time, you need 2 months. It's really, in my opinion, not worth it to try to cut this any shorter. It takes time to travel, to shop, to organize, to acclimatize. But if you have the passion you will find that there are many, many 'amateur' mountaineers climbing in the Himalaya. They do it on a budget and one of the best ways to do that is to avoid the expensive mountains like Everest or K2. Most of the other peaks are quite cheap, especially if you go below 8,000m. In Pakistan and India you can climb any peak up to 6500m for a $50 permit. The best solution is to go, and figure it out. I did my first expedition when I was 19 years old, to pakistan, and I traveled by hitch-hiking with tractors, I cooked my own food on my own stove, and slept on the ground in my own tent. I lived for one month for less than $50 I went from Islamabad to the Kyber Pass/border with China, and back. Tap into that passion and you can make anything possible. -Steve House
@@UphillAthlete Thank you so much for taking the time to reply, Steve. That gives me quite a bit to think about. Have a good week!
When you are climbing/guiding on Denali, do you use a compression stuff sack for your sleeping bag? Given the bulk of a -20 or -40 sleeping bag, I’m thinking it would be unruly in a backpack without a stuff sack? Thanks! Love the video!
yes! a compression stuffsack is a necessity for a big winter bag. There is a denali-gear specific video on our channel as well.
@@UphillAthlete Thanks for the quick reply. Great videos. Probably the best available. Keep up the good work!
Ya know there’s really nothing wrong with packing a good old fashioned ham sandwich on these types of trips. Morale booster and a whole lot cheaper.
Dudes counting calories like he’s on the show my 600 pound life
Nah...pastrami and Swiss on rye with Dijon mustard and a dill pickle. I would climb Hell for a pastrami sandwich and bring a corned beef sandwich for the descent (...ascent?).
Totally on board with this. Agree with going ultralight but I’m not compromising with my pb and j
We used to bring cheezits and precooked bacon hahaha
Obviously, the size and nature of the gear you pack will be very dependant on the route, but what's the bare-bones rack you'd you normally take for alpine routes (and would fit in a 30l sack like above)?
My standard alpine rack would be a single set of nuts, single set of cams .3- #3 camaolot size and perhaps a couple pitons depending on the rock and season and descent options. plus screws depending on route. Might double up on 1-2 sizes depending on route.
Steve, do you recommend mixing and matching regular and offset nuts or just going with a full set of regular nuts? I have a full set of the dmm wallnuts and offsets. Also, in terms of screws, what would you consider to be a good number of screws for an alpine route with a few ice pitches? I was maybe looking at 2 long screws, maybe 4 mediums, and a stubby?
How do you get Isobutane fuel stoves to work in the cold? I have tried MSR Reactor hanging in the tent and unless I am hugging the fuel it takes forever to boil.
Hi Adam, This problem is as old as alpinism it seems. There are many little 'hacks' people, including myself, have tried. Hold a lighter under the canister (obviously dangerous!). Warm the canister with your hands. And hammer a piece of copper tubing flat and bend it into a big U-shape so that the 2 ends are warmed by the flame and the rest of the copper runs under the base of the cannister (ideally in contact with it) so as to transfer some heat to the canister. Commercial solutions have been tried. Primus used to sell a re-useable heat-disk that fit in the convexity of the base of the canister. All of these hacks are poor solutions. But no one has come up with a better overall stove yet, so we're stuck with the limitations of what we have currently. Sorry I don't have a perfect answer for you. -Steve
check out this info here:
www.uphillathlete.com/forums/topic/food-on-a-route/
Sleep with your fuel canister in your sleeping bag so it's warm in the morning. Leave it in a jacket pocket until you want to melt snow. I bring a small plastic lid from a grocery store dip container to put underneath the canister so it's never contacting the snow directly. It will still cool down quickly as you use it but this will help. If you are less weight sensitive you can bring extra hand warmers and put one underneath the fuel canister while it's running. I've also seen people bring a small plastic tupperware that the fuel canister fits inside of and you can pour a bit of hot water into it so the canister is surrounded by warmth.
@@UphillAthlete Hi Steve, have you tried applying the copper tubing heat exchanger on Windburner? I was wondering about that, after reading about it from Andy Kirkpatrick and Mark Twight, was wondering whether someone used it on this particular stove.
Thanks! Stepan
@@HUELWIGWAM I have not tried the copper tubing on a windburner. Let us know if it works and send pictures.
Just curious on why you don't use compression sacks to organize and to compact your down jacket, sleeping etc, I'm guessing it's personnel preference on packing styles. What's the food company called that you buy the waffles? I really like taking hard boiled eggs and croissants high protein and fat just as long as it doesn't get squished ha ha. Thanks for the educational videos Steve!
Hi Karla: Regarding stuff sacks. This is not a matter of personal style, but of what works. Of course I also like to have things separated and organized. But several factors are more important than personal preference. 1) The most important thing is Having things packed in the order in which they are needed. At a bivy (or a break) you can not take things out of the pack to get to something you need that is on the bottom because you're on a wall and there is no place to set things down without risk of losing them. Also with stuff sacks the pack's space is not well used. Meaning there are many empty spaces between the stuff sacks. So you end up using a bigger pack that you really need. AND (this is important) the pack is not smooth on the outside, but is 'bumpy' because the of the stuffsacks. Those bumps create wear spots and this is where your pack will catch and tear. I do usually use a stuffsack for my food, which I did not have ready when I made the video. Again, I have food I won't need that day on the very bottom and food I will need soon more accessible.
The waffles are found here: guenergy.com/gu-stroopwafel/?gclid=Cj0KCQiA4bzSBRDOARIsAHJ1UO4qWJKP_9lvKWewO_gNDA90SOYZ0_t-CMRwH2jtBGcwxUq4VHP90hQaAgSLEALw_wcB
You probably are not able to digest as much protein as is contained in the eggs while you are climbing unless your pace is very slow relative to your aerobic capacity. That is a great recovery snack, but not a very good food for eating while climbing. We write about this pretty extensively in our book, there is about 40+ pages on this topic, more than I can reproduce here:
www.amazon.com/Training-New-Alpinism-Climber-Athlete/dp/193834023X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1515165016&sr=8-1&keywords=steve+house
thanks for watching. Steve House
If you use stuff sacks then everything is lumpy and there is a lot of dead space in the pack. Believe me, after 30 years of alpinism, I've tried everything. This simply works. Having a bunch of stuff sacks at a bivouac is a hassle and increases your chances of dropping something. The way I have things packed and the order they are put into the pack is crucial and it works really well. Food: You can eat eggs and fat but you'll go slower than you need to on that fuel and probably have gastric distress. -Steve House
My food choice is mostly because it's fast and when I'm on a multi pitch it works so far. All these energy drinks make me ill and I haven't found one that works for me. Another reason I use stuff sacks is for water proofness if my pack isn't waterproof. And of course organization but usually I stuff all my down or synthetic in a stuff sack. I see your point as well. Thanks!
what brand is the soft flask?
nice
interesting video. You use a lot of gels, different powder energy drinks etc.. mostly synthetic and a lot of chemicals in it. Not a big fan of those. But also they make me thirsty. Id rather have some dried fruits, some extra cliff bars, and always some cheese. You mention of having some of the gear on top.. I can't see how you'll be able to fit a full rack, crampons,helmet as I assume they'll be in your pack for the approach.
The energy foods, when properly selected, do the best job of fueling you. You can replicate this with 'real food' but it requires more knowledge than most people have about nutrition. And there is plenty of room in that pack, most of the filling is compressible. I don't bother with such a small pack for a day climb of say Ames Ice Hose, too much effort. But for a technical alpine climb it's really key to have a smaller pack and I can easily fit rack and crampons inside and tools and rope on the outside. I've done it many, many times. Good luck. Steve House
What do you recommend for people who want to eat real food during their ascents?
There are some good recipies for do-it-yourself whole food energy bars (or balls) in our book Training for the New Alpinism:
www.amazon.com/Training-New-Alpinism-Climber-Athlete/dp/193834023X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1516293658&sr=8-1&keywords=new+alpinism
I eat 'real food' much of the time. But when I want to perform my best, I outsource to the experts. You could replicate what the energy food companies, especially GU energy, do in their research and development, but it would take a lot of time. Energy food simply works better. If the climb is easy, short, or not important to you, by all means, bring a sandwich. When the chips are down, I like to have every advantage. -Steve House
I was curious on the kind of tarp that is, manufacturer? It doesn't seem like a regular old tarp
That one was made my Integral Designs in Calgary, but they’ve been out of business for a while. Then Brooks Range Mountaineering was making them, they’re gone. I think Hyperlight mountain gear might make some thing somewhat similar (but not as light/simple) as this. Good luck and if you find someone doing these please post back to this thread. Thanks Steve.
@@UphillAthlete @Matt McClelland Integral designs have been bought by RAB. They manufacture most of ID products like the siltarp that you seem to use.
What's the name of those waffles? Couldn't make it out & subtitles spell it as 'goose true'..? Thanks
Stroop Waffles. There are various brands, the ones in the video are GU Energy Stroop Waffles.
@@UphillAthlete Thanks, got it. There are some bizzarre subtitle translations around. Needless to say searching 'goose true waffles' didn't work!
Anyone know what kind of bivy bag hes using there ?
I don't know
This is stated several times in these comments: It's a Black Diamond "Winter Bivy" which is no longer in production.
Is there a good substitute for the BD winter bivy currently on the market that you'd recommend? I have the outdoor research alpine bivy. Great protection but it's a bit heavy for a bivy.
Black diamond twilight bivy is a super light alternative
Rab makes a good looking non goretext bivy but I don't know the name of it.
Sorry if you mentioned this in the vid, but what is the total weight of the packed bag?
I did not say, but it would depend on the route and time needed.
I’m confused. What about ice axes or rope?
I'm dedicated to start Alpine climbing but I'm having a problem finding a mentor or climbing partner. I don't know anyone that does anything even remotely related to climbing at all. How does one find a mentor or a climbing partner in general? I've spent some time out solo at higher elevation but the thought of actually attempting to climb or even scramble up anything seems like a terrible idea to do alone.
Brandon, for the most part we meet our partners our climbing, at the crag, or through a club. Get out climbing and talking to lots of people. Make friends, grow your network. the partners will be people you have already become friends with.
There are Facebook groups and Meetups that you can join for free. That is what I did since I was in a similar predicament.
Did I miss the protection?
I didn’t wait til the end. Typical. I am interested in ice screw pro, crampons. The whole lot.
Why the MSR WindBurner instead of the Reactor?
The reactors don't work well above 20,000' -SH
@@UphillAthlete I honesty did not know that nor would I have suspected it although it seems almost obvious since you clued me in. Thank you! I guess I'll stick to the WindPro which is the stove I believe you used on the Rupal Face of Nanga Parbat.
What about adding a tea spoon of salt and another one of baking soda to make the drink isotonic?
I just don't feel that's very important, the exercise intensity simply is not very high on average, on these types of climbs. -Steve House
What bivy sack is that?
You need a mic and another angle of the camera so we can see things better
I started paying attention when you mentioned Denali.
Hmm, and where is the avalanche kit and climbing rack ? :-) In another bag?
I'm talking about technical alpine routes. So in this case the avalanche kit only goes to the base of the route (if I need one at all). The rack goes in the pack, to the base of the climb (and then it's being used) and the rope goes on top of the pack. I believe you want the smallest pack you can have while climbing on the route. Sometimes this means some gear is outside on the approach, but once you're climbing it's all in use.
No tent? How do yo sleep?
I'm sleeping in a bivy sack. There is rarely a place to put a tent on a technical alpine climb, think north face of the Eiger, so bivy sacks offer a lot more flexibilty.
Uphillathlete thank you for answering!! :)
@@UphillAthlete Russian Ice Hammok? :D
would never pack soft flasks IN the pack. They tend to leak very easy.
I'm not Steve House, but I disagree with nearly everything he says in this video, except for putting the heavy stuff close to the body (but at the bottom??? nope.).. I guess there are a lot of approaches.
One thing that guides my packing decisions is to put the things I need last on the bottom. Remember that in this video I'm talking about packing for a technical alpine route where I'm bivouacing on the face, most often on a small rock ledge or an ice ledge I have to chop out myself. -Steve H.
B. Alvn : dork
What bivy sack is that?
A no-longer produced BD sack they called the "winter bivy"