Phonetic adventures in Prague
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- Опубліковано 17 сер 2023
- It's rare for a language to have a 'fricative trill' sound in addition to its regular /r/, but Czech is one such language. Hear it on my trip to the once-every-4-years Phonetics Congress in stunning Prague.
20th International Congress of Phonetics Sciences, 7-11 Aug 2023 was hosted by the Institute of Phonetics, Charles University, Prague (Radek Skarntizl, Congress Chair)
Presentations mentioned:
'Timing of laughter in conversation: better late than never?'
Tamara Rathcke (University of Konstanz), Eleni Kapogianni and Lucy Page
'Some measures of phonetic similarity for use in legal trade mark disputes'
Sandra Ferrari Disner (USC) and Vincent J. van Heuven
'Game of phones: a socio-phonetic analysis of stylised media performance of Yorkshire English'
Lucy Jackson (University of Glasgow)
'Dentofacial Disharmony: patients' sibilants differ from controls' more in source than filter properties'
Madeleine Oakley (North Carolina State University), Auvi Tran, Ciana Paye, Emma Trudan, Timothy Turve
'Glottalization of voiceless stops in Multicultural London English'
Chong Adam (Queen Mary University of London) and Garellek Marc
'The devil is in the detail: An interactional-phonetic study of G-word interjections and some methodological implications '
Marina Cantarutti (University of York)
'Beyond accent, attitudes, and native speakers: What might socially responsible second language speech research look like?'
Pavel Trofimovich (Concordia University)
'What can speakers tell us about speech?'
Jane Stuart-Smith (University of Glasgow)
If you want to speak British English clearly and confidently, I recommend this course from accent coach Luke Nicholson:
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As an Indonesian, I have a soft spot for Czech spelling because at one time in the late 1950s our government actually considered following what was known as the Czechoslovakian orthography as suggested by the late Professor Zorica Dubovska. The current spelling that we have now in Indonesia is highly phonetic, but it could’ve gone even further with the addition of special characters à la Czechoslovakia to indicate digraphs etc had the plan went through. Rest in peace, Prof Dubovska! Thank you for your contribution to Bahasa Indonesia!
mnurut saja jang kita pakaj skarang lbih čočok dan efisien untuk bhs indoneša.
kurangnja hanja di e jang dipakai untuk šwa dan e (di revisi trachir sudah ditambahkan bahwa šwa bisa ditulis dgn ê).
dan orfografi jang skarang džuga tidak banjak diagrafnja, čuma ny ng si kh.
Ya, saya juga tidak iŋin kita memaxakan bulat-bulat apa yaŋ diusulkan waktu itu karena éjaän yaŋ kita gunakan saät ini sudah cukup éféktif. Haɲa meŋadopsi beberapa ideɲa saja agar éjaän kita bisa lebih konsistén tanpa harus menebak-nebak. Saya merasa digraf ‘ng’ dan ‘ny’ itu mubazir, tapi untuk šwa saya justru lebih memilih meŋgunakan huruf ‘e’ biasa, karena ini buɲi yaŋ lebih baɲak muncul. Oléh karena itu, saya justru memilih meŋgunakan ‘é’ dan ‘è’ untuk buɲi taliŋ agar lebih jelas perbédaänɲa. Untuk ‘sy’ saya sudah akur deŋan peŋgunaän ‘š’ tapi untuk ‘kh’ saya belum memutuskan cocokɲa diganti deŋan apa 🤔 Muŋkin deŋan ‘q’ karena dalam ortografi yang kita pakai saät ini huruf ini tidak ada gunaɲa? 😆
Is it possible to find more information on Zorica Dubovska somewhere? There's only a very short Wikipedia article on her and only in Czech. It sounds like she's a forgotten hero of linguistics
Oh yes. I had an Indonesian roommate once (not a linguist) and he found Czech very similar. I asked him to read me an article in Czech (he didn't speak any Czech whatsoever) and it was almost perfect. (He told me the same when I have tried reading something in Indonesian.) It's funny that languages on the opposite side of the globe are almost the same phonetically (while otherwise having almost nothing in common).
@@MusicalRadiation im afraid that most of the articles that appear on google dont go very in depth on her, the czech wikipedia loosely describes her schools and which languages she studied/writen books about and thats about it. Seems to me she has done a lot in establishing good relations between czech republic and SEA countries, but not a lot above that. And lets be honest, Due to the wars/communism in her time its quite shocking she has managed that much.
As an Czech, I can confirm that your czech pronounciation is at a great level! 😉
Praise indeed! Thank you! I'm sure there's room for improvement.
@@DrGeoffLindseyI was actually surprised how easy it was for your ambassador in Prague to learn Czech language. He's no native speaker by any means but if you give him time to prepare what he wants to say, it sounds really good.
if you take my accent, even after 18years of actively using English language I still sound like Milos Forman
@@keenmate9719 🤣. Miloš Forman ... 😂. No, I am sure it is ok man ! ;D
@@DrGeoffLindsey but that is always! 😄 No human will be ever perfect or capable of everything 😉
200+ likes?! Well, thank you! 😅
At 1:53, you show the Vyšehrad metro station while playing the exact moment in Smetana's Moldau where the leitmotiv for Vyšehrad castle is heard. I see what you did there, Dr. Lindsey! 😊
I am so happy that somebody else has noticed this ❤❤❤
@@nikolpshenova4147 not that hard to notice...
I’m a classical musician and I never would’ve picked up on that😂
I was impressed by that as well. I was expecting an excerpt from Vltava (Moldau) as vaguely appropriate background music like every tourist video from Prague and thought it should be the Vyšehrad theme. The Vyšehrad theme from the Moldau...never would have guessed. Anyway, it seems Dr. Lindsey is a bit of a cultural Czechofile.
@@davidjgill4902i reckon he's a bit of a nerd, and in a good way. the video really encouraged me to go to Prague.. always wanted to but i still haven't managed to.. yet
As a Czech immigrant in the UK who watches your videos to improve his English accent, I enjoyed watching you pronouncing words in my own language! You did a pretty good job, I can't even get most British people to pronounce my first name correctly (it's Karel)
"Yeah best I can give you is a Kah-dell"
Oh god, yes, you're so right! My English in-laws keep calling my dad (Steve) Carell and my mum Yahnah. Atrocious.
@@katkalocova My name is Jana, and I don't mind /jɑ:nə/ at all. I do hate the vocative case "Jano" 😅
As a Brit immigrant in the Czech Republic, I also can't get Czechs to say my name properly (it's Ross), so we have the same issue. BTW Karel, I would definitely pronounce your name correctly. :) I can even pronounce Jiří correctly :)
Pls don't try improving your accent it will develop naturally. Focus on comprehension and cultural knowledge
Im Czech, got this randomly recommended to me, you nailed the pronunciations! You elongate some letters too much but the hard attacks on everything were super clear, barely even a trace of the usual muddiness english speaking people often pronounce czech in.
Thanks, I'll work on shortening the syllabic consonants
It's Leviooosa not Leviosaaah
@@uzivatel56 HAHAHA i did a spit take when I read this
1:50 Kudos for playing Vysehrad's part of Vltava on the Vysehrad subway stop!
Finally someone noticed
Just this one station is not "sub"way strictu sense.
The excerpt is actually from the piece "Vyšehrad", which precedes "Vltava" in the suite "Má vlast" 🤓
@@jan_k469 You explained it, so I do not need to.
As a German, Czech is one of my favourite languages. In our choir we often sing Czech songs by Antonin Dvořák!
As another German, my Polish wife and I found out that Czech is to Poles what Dutch is to Germans: The nearly mutually intelligble language of the small neighbour nation that sounds like, for lack of better words, a sweet and funny (no offence) version of your own language but is littered with dangerous false friends. As an example for that, a little riddle: the Dutch word for "to rent" is identical to the German slang word that means taking money for the activity described by the Czech slang word that sounds similar to the Polish word for "to look for" - hope that wasn't too complicated ;-)
As yet another German, the fact that men are Muži in Czech is slightly funny.
@@SeriousMoh does it sound like the German slang word for "the female reproductive organ?" Cos if that's the case then, as a Czech guy, I wholeheartedly approve lol ;-)
@@aarpftsz well, according to google the ž is voiced while the German word is not. But other than that, yes.
@@marcelldavis4809A lot of Czech people can understand Polish without a problem - not me though, I am ashamed to say that I use english for that. By the way, the classic example of missunderstandings between is saying "I'm looking for a way (road)" in polish, which in Czech sounds like you have a pretty hardcore lifestyle.
As a czech person I have to say that I am impressed by the accuracy of the information in this video, everything is spot on
Loved this! A Czech friend taught me how to say the r-haček sound when I was a child. He told me that when he was a child, he couldn't say that sound, so his mother took him to a speech therapist to learn how.
Happens to quite a lot of children round here 😄 I can testify to that, along with my brother... not an easy sound even for natives
I could not even say "r" when i was 4
@@radimfriedel380 Like every kid in my family including me went through this :D And now when they tried to teach me the th sounds in phonetics class, I am like: "dude, it took the speech therapist two or three years to teach me the sounds of my native language, and my ř is still slipping at times when I'm tired, we're not going to get a proper th sound in one university term."
@@frosty1219Yeah, we usually learn "r" first and then "ř" later in childhood
Of course you needed a reference to windows in Prague.
I'm not even sure if I understand this comment (I think I do), but you have my thumbs up anyways! 😅
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defenestrations_of_Prague
@@pedsantiago
"Out of the window" is an important phrase in Pragie
We actually add numbers to them, just to keep track. The first one was around the time, when we defeated a few crusades and the second one kind of started Thirty years war 😂
Dr. Geoff is the picture of a true scholar. Always curious, always observing
I'm Czech and I've spent years studying English phonetics. It is so interesting to see an English person explaining Czech phonetics and making me think about my language in a different angle. Thank you.
Glad you liked our country!
0:27 One downside of reducing double consonants is that it makes certain words look more similar than they should be, like "asociální" (asocial) vs "asociace" (association)
4:23 The L and R in "Vltava" and "Brno" normally have the same length as short vowels (I feel like you pronounced them slightly longer). The differece doesn't matter though, since long syllabic consonants don't exist in Czech (but they do in Slovak)
In Polish Vltava is Wełtawa and if I seen Vltava I would read it with two syllable Vlta-va (if you think it would be unpronounceable you underestimate my power... to pronounce consonant clusters, I am Polish after all). And I seen other example in Czech or Serbo-Croatian where people are just not bothered to write all vowels. So my question is how to Czechs know when to put a short vowel or when pronounce it as consonant cluster?
@@Hadar1991 I can actually speak some Polish and those clusters like "trw" in "trwać" are one of the most difficult things for me (another is having to differentiate "i" and "y").
As far as I know, the general rule for L and R in Czech is that they're syllabic when they're not adjacent to any vowels and they aren't at the beginning of a word or root (I once read a linguistics article which mentioned the word "zlhostejnět" - "to become indifferent" which DOESN'T have a syllabic L, because the L comes from the beginning of the root in "lhostejný").
There's also the numerals "sedm" and "osm" which in their most formal pronunciation have a syllabic M, but they're more commonly pronounced like "sedum" and "osum"
@@2kratM I was like 20 years old when I have learn that technically /i/ and /y/ are the same phoneme, whereas for me they could be more different.
Also my autistic brain highly prefers the strict differentiation between consonants and vowels in Polish. There are no syllabic consonant in Polish, so when I see Brno I pronounce it as one syllable. If somebody would tell me he is Brno using Czech pronunciation I would assume he is from Switzerland (Czechs pronounce Brno as Berno which is Polish for Bern City in Switzerland). So while Czech have some cool features I would like to adopt into Polish I may assure you that syllabic consonants are definitely not one of them.
But what infuriates me is that we have a nonsyllabic vowel (I am looking on you, /u/) so when you have /u/ after other vowel you have to just know if it will behave as vowel or consonant, examples:
a) nauka (na-u-ka), /u/ is a vowel
b) Europa (Eu-ro-pa), /u/ is NOT a vowel
c) auto (au-to), /u/ is NOT a vowel
d) słabeusz (sła-be-usz), /u/ is a vowel
e) autor (au-tor), /u/ is NOT a vowel
f) neurolog (neu-ro-log), /u/ is NOT a vowel
And this could be solved so easily, just use /v/ where it is a consonant and /u/ when it is a vowel (just like /i/ and /j/ in Polish), we don't have any use for /v/, so don't see any drawback. "Nauka" and "słabeusz" stays the same, but we would have "Evropa", "avto", "avtor", "nevrolog" :)
Hi! Slovak speaker here. I think the L and R were just barely shorter than I would have pronounced them if they were long syllabic consonants, but closer to the long variants than to the short ones, so if I had to guess I'd say they were long. Except I know both of the words of course.
@@Hadar1991 Poles mostly can't pronounce words like Vltava correctly, they always say Valtava or something like that and Kartek instead of Krtek.
My best friend works in the CUBE! I'm a Brit who has been living in Czechia for 14 years and I'm proud to say I've mastered the Ř sound 😁
Wow, hats off! Klobouk dolů! 🙂
As someone used to ppl going from here to english, I have to ask, why go back from there to here? Is it how the saying goes, the grass is always greener on the other side? Or did you have special reason?
@@hidesidehs5271Prague and other larger cities in CZ offer higher quality of life than many parts of Britain if you have a good job. And if you move for it, it probably is a good job
@@FilipMoncrief Yes i work in international company and after some conversations with my British collegues about salaries(how can even somebody like teacher live in London?), prices, healtcare etc. I never considered to relocate to Britain again:) I would love some things, but here people with somehow good job can have really good life here in CZ.
@@hidesidehs5271 as a brit, the cities and public transport sell it for me. Being in such a beautiful place as prague or brno where transport is quick easy and cheap just makes me enjoy existing there so much more. I would love to move to czechia some day.
I'm Polish and I really like the Czech way of writing /ʃ/, /t͡ʃ/ and /ʒ/ as , and instead of ours , and . I think it would work really well with /ɕ/, /t͡ɕ/ and /ʑ/ written , and .
Also, we have remnants of /r̝/ (), which is pronounced as /ʒ/ or /ʃ/, but it turns into in declination.
I agree it's more compact and aesthetic, but at the same time I also like how these cursed looking digraphs give a unique flavor to our orthography.
On another note, I'm not sure why Slavic languages tend to write /ts/ as a single letter , but /dz/ as a digraph . It would be interesting to see something like in Albanian, where /dz/ is written as . Then we could have or for /dʒ/ and for /dʑ/.
Macedonian uses a single letter "s" for /dz/. I don't know why other languages written in Cyrillic that have that phoneme don't also use it.@@myaobyclepiej
@@myaobyclepiej For those unaware, Macedonian writes /dz/ as a single Cyrillic letter !
@@LarryRouse Right, I forgot about that one. I thought it might still be in use in Serbian, but apparently at the moment it's only used in Macedonian.
While I would agree that it looks neat Czech are not totally consistent (nor are we). Let's look on a following family of sounds (using Polish spelling)
z ż ź
c cz ć
s sz ś
dz dż dź
r rz (we don't have this one)
to make id totally consisent we would have to have a single letter for /dz/ then we could have a very neat:
z ž ź
c č ć
s š ś
ʒ ǯ ʒ́
r ř ŕ
I have used ʒ because it is somewhat similar to dzeta so it make some sense for /dz/. With such approach we could introduce consistency in all Balto-Slavic languages. While introducing ž, č, š, ř without changing /dz/ to single character doesn't make much sense for me.
My good sir, I am blown away by the fact that this exists. I have been obsessed with phonetics, all of my life (prospectively being Hyperlexic, it is my life's "fulfillment" to love this). That said, I wish I had been there.
Earlier today, at my guard job, I pronounced a man's last name (Ehioze) correctly, and he went on about it for 2-3 minutes. His middle name was a fair amount more Nigerian, but it did not throw me. Making another person smile in that way is my absolute favorite thing to do.
Names are so important to people. It's a huge part of who we are. And making an effort to pronounce a name correctly means the world to all of us. I also think it's a gift to make others smile. Thank you for making the world a better place!
I live somwhere where nobody pronounces my name well. We could do with more people like you.
I risk myself taking the slide about "native speaker" at 7:21 very far out of context, but I really want to bring forward my uncommon experience on this matter.
I am born and raised Australian, but both my parents are Chinese immigrants. Despite having lived in Australia for a decade, both their English abilities are extremely limited - thus during my infancy I spoke (Mandarin) Chinese and only Chinese at home. Of course with Australia being an English speaking country, whenever I am not at home I would speak exclusively English. As a result my English ability quickly overtook my Chinese ability. I (like to believe I) am fluent in speaking, presenting, and writing in English at an academic level; meanwhile my Chinese is limited to "house language" like "Mum I'm going out" or "Dad you forgot to take out the trash". My brain is wired to think entirely in English, so despite Chinese being the first language I learnt I consider English to be my native language.
That's why I must speak out against the slide at 7:21 - For me, it would not feel correct to equate first language to native language. To say I am an "English first language speaker" would... be a lie, whilst any claims of being a "native Chinese speaker" would be instantly disassembled if you plopped me into a real conversation between native Chinese.
Even the accent thing is extremely awkward. Having grown up with both English and Chinese I actually developed some habits that made learning both languages at the same time easier. This resulted in my Australian English having the tiniest tiniest tinge of Chinese habits - which is undetectable to other English speakers but extremely apparent to Australians. When I speak to those outside of Australia, the average person will only ever hear my Australian accent and would almost always express shock or surprise after I tell them I'm of Chinese heritage(if they haven't seen my face). Meanwhile, any native Australian would be able to instantly identify that at least my parents aren't Australian. To foreigners, my accent is Australian. To Australians, my accent is "Asian". In my case, which would be my "foreign accent" or "second language accent"?
I am again fully aware that I may be completely off the mark in interpreting the slide since I have absolutely none of the context that would have been made through the rest of the presentation... but I couldn't help but add my two cents. Is 'native speaker' the new N-word? To me, and I imagine many others like me, I would feel grossed out by any replacements. In an effort to tip-toe around categorising something to avoid being hurtful, something else just as potentially incorrect is born.
Very interesting! Thanks for sharing, I think you summarise very well some of the experiences that 2nd(?) generation immigrants have when it comes to language. I was old enough to develop my native Spanish to a normal level for my age before moving to Australia, but my youngest sibling, for instance, has, proportionally, a much larger English vocabulary. When we moved again and ended up in an international school, it was clear that her "native" language was solidly Spanglish. She would have to write academically in English or Spanish and was expected to stick to one language during class but, in every other context, she used Spanglish rather than either language.
This was an interesting read nonetheless! I can imagine many people to be in this situation. Especially the part about native dialects/accents noticing the slightest differences. Thanks for sharing your story!
The thing I find strange is that the slide says to "use terminology that aligns with values" and then suggests replacing "foreign" and "nonnative" with "second langauge" and "native" with "first language". But none of "foreign", "nonnative", "second", "native" and "first" is a value term! Unless, perhaps, you're a xenophobe who associates "foreign" with bad, or an imperialist who associates "native" with "the nonwhite people we conquered."
I don't think I've heard it in speech, but I've been asked on some forms I've filled out what my "primary language" is. That may be a good replacement for "native language" in your case. It's the one you use primarily, but not the one you were "born" ("natus") with. Of course, "primary speaker" doesn't quite work in the same way.
I would love to watch a video of you going through this and speaking! And you can always improve your Chinese so it’s not just a ‘home language’.
Thank you for sharing!
As our language is spoken by some +-10 millions of people world-wide and is one of more difficult ones, I always value the effort if someone tries to speak it. Thanks for nice video from our capitol.
Děkuji Dr Geoff Lindsey. 🥇🏆🥇🏆🥇
Another gem, Geoff! Navigating a crowd while recording a video, showing beautiful views of the city, AND chatting about phonetic deep stuff... Mind-blowing! The last bit is just awesome, I laughed my head off 😂
Many thanks!
I haven't contributed anything to your experience in Czech Republic but I admire you and your work and I am tremendously proud that you have visited our country, did our pronunciation justice and enjoyed the sights.
Thank you Geoff!
he is a cultural Marxist grimeball
Literal decoding: kavarna -> kava + rna, meaning coffee + activity place. Z okna, decoding "from inside" + okno+modification, partial situation marker "a", the literal translation is "from inside of the window".
It's interesting that Czech has hard attack in 'z okna' when Russian doesn't; in Russian it's spelled "s okna", pronounced "zaknA".
@@sluggo206 I believe in Russian it is "iz okna" when written in Latin, and not "s okna", which has the meaning "from [the object] of the window". "iz okna" is actually spelled both "is okna" or "iz okna", depending on the region, while the official listed one is "iz okna".
@@trevoro.9731 Maybe you won't agree with forms like "C какого ты города"?
@@roman_zabigaliuk I mentioned the most likely translation for the situation.
@@sluggo206 "S okna" will be pronounced 'saknA'. You are probably mixing with an official form 'iz okna' which would read 'Izakna' or 'IzaknA'.
Seeing you in Prague, even interviewing one of my uni professors, that's just brilliant. 😄 Very glad u liked the stay and tried your tongue at Czech! Not the easiest language there is to learn, though beautifully florid.
Love this video. Who knew casual tourism + phonetics would work so well.
I laughed as you bravely avoided Smetana's first name, briliant comedy, as always. By the way, congratulations on you czech pronounciation!
Oh, and thank you for: příjemné představení řady přednášek o řeči!
Bedřich (pokřtěn jako Fridrich, resp. v česky vedené matrice psáno jako Frydrych
"Severe overbite/underbite affects 's' and 'sh', but patients can compensate with lip-rounding in 'sh'.": In high school I was in a radio class, and the teacher had me see a school speech pathologist about my pronunciation of 'sh'. I had an overbite, and was about to get jaw surgery to lengthen my lower jaw. That wasn't for pronunciation; it was to protect my teeth. After the surgery, my teacher said the nonstandard 'sh' pronunciation had gone away.
I love that word for window... okna! Fantastic.
"Window" is actually "okno". "Okna" is plural, or genitive (which is this case).
The editing with the little dance at the end was brilliant 😂🤍
Quite unexpected surprise hearing about my own city and language in my favorite English practice channel.
I hope you enjoyed your stay in Prague and thanks for your inspiring work 👍
Very cool to see your linguist brain walk through the world and see/hear all kinds of interesting things! I'm not officially a linguist myself, but find myself drawn to many of the things you are.
I can only dream of getting to go to Prague for a work-related trip... I'm American and we always just get shipped somewhere in our vast country. I was in Prague years ago and met a sweet lady I knew from an online forum. She took me to one of those lovely old cafés. Also, she happened to be from Brno so I learned how to pronounce it correctly.
Our tour guide said that Czech is an extremely complicated language and its grammar takes up volumes.
This was awesome Geoff!
In Czech language we have even much longer consonant clusters. I remember challenging our Scottish tutor back in the day by forcing him to say words like 'zmrzlina' (ice cream) :-) I like your channel very much and appreciate your work!
...and by the way: 'zmrz' is actually one syllable in 'zmrz-li-na'
The great John Cleese asked in 2004 in the interview on the Czech national TV: 'Is it a real language? ' :-)
"Strč prst skrz krk"...
My favourite torture words are 'scvrnkl' and 'smrskl' 😁
@@afiiik1 Words like "scvrnkl" nobody uses in real life and "smrskl" is pronounced "smrsknul" or "smrsk" in common Czech.
@@Pidalin I use "smrskl". Might also depend on the region.
The final musical/bit made me giggle. And even though you are obviously very talented linguist and speaker, your pronounciation of "kavárna" blew my mind. It was flawless.
This video is delightful! Thanks for bringing me along to your conference in Prague!
this man could go anywhere in the world and make an interesting video out of it. a true scholar
As a Czech myself, I have to confess that I absolutelly love Ř sound. It's my favourite thing in the entire Czech language because I have actually a very nice pronunciation of Ř (not like my R that makes people think I'm a native English-speaker T-T). This was very fun to watch and I absolutely envy you that R, hopefully, one day I'll get there and will finally sound Czech!
Also the editing! I was dying of laughter!!!
Oh dear, as a Czech, I have the hardest of times not to stress the first syllables in English and sometimes, it is a very conscious effort. As an English major, I have studied phonetics many years ago and Radek Skartnizl was my course instructor, it is nice to see that he is still alive and kicking it for team Academia 15 years later.
What a beautiful city! I'm glad you had fun.
That's the way to experience my country! Love it
Polish, unlike Czech, got rid of Ř (rz) several centuries ago, replacing it by Ž or Š. However, these sounds still behave differently from ordinary Ž (ż) and Š (sz).
rz is such an interesting sound, I love it
So, back in the days rz and ż were pronounced differently? :o Could someone explain to me how differently?
I remember being taught at school (I'm native Polish) that ch and h are pronounced the same until I saw someone write Chydra (as the mythological creature) and then I realised I would read it totally different than Hydra. That's when I got interested in phonetics. They say polish is very phonetic language but then there are words Hanka, chmura and niechby and every ch/h is a totally different sound than I was taught at school when learning to read. Hopefully I learned to speak from my ancestors, not school 😂
@@askarufus7939 Czech still has the old rz sound, as the OP said (and shown in the video briefly), it sounds as if you were pronouncing r and ż at the same time.
@@robinrehlinghaus1944 At the same time or one after another like horse który rży "neeeeigh!"
@@robinrehlinghaus1944 Ř is totaly different sound than r and ż at the same time, when you pronounce it like that, you will never get really correct pronunciation. It's one short, but powerfull soung, not some r and ž combined, but most of foreigners get it wrong by following such wrong tips how to pronounce that, so they learn it totaly wrong from the start.
Lovely to see Prague! I lived there for years and think of it often and fondly.
I'm not at all in the linguistics domain but I always love to see these conferences. Just passionate people talking about their passion.
Same as IT conferences, only with other subjects 😊
Love the snippets from The Moldau (or The Vltava as the case may be), I have been in love with this piece ever since I first played it with my orchestra.
I really love your videos on Slavic language as a Slovenian American myself!
Hi there! About the "Vltava", "Brno" and possibly "hřbitov" too (means cemetery): the main information is, that these consonants (r and l) are not always considered consonants in Slavic languages (it is the same with Slovak language and I was taught this in school so it has to be true 😅). Sometimes they are considered vowels. This is why we have so many words with consonants clustered together, even same words consisting only of consonants. Examples: krk (throat), plť (raft (Slovak)), skrz (through, it is "skrze" or "přes" in Czech), sklz (backlog, the Czechs use the word "skluz"), prvok (Slovak) / prvek (Czech) for element, brzo (early in Czech, in Slovakia we use the word "skoro"), vlna (wave and also wool in both) etc. I suppose it is the same with the "ř" in Czech language - it is just treated like a vowel. Did you know that the Polish also have an equivalent of "ř"? It is "rz". The pronunciation is just a little bit different from "ř".
Thank you for this interesting video! I enjoyed it very much!
Terms like 'consonant' and 'vowel' don't actually have absolutely precise definitions in phonetics and linguistics.
I love a good vlog from someone I least expect one! :D
Brilliant! Thanks for the show!
Roztomilé ❤
absolutely adore this vlog style look into your trip!! i hope you had a fantastic time at the conference
Thanks for letting me know. Fewer views though...
@@DrGeoffLindsey I think that tends to be the case, unfortunately. But at the least, its good to mix it up sometimes!
Syllabic R in Croatian can be found in words such as crv, krv, trn, prst, krt, hrt... (worm, blood, thorn, finger, brittle, greyhound) and I remember when we learnt about it in school it was such a shocking revelation to me that a consonant can assume a role of a vowel, so to say. :)
In Czech those words are červ, krev, trn, prst, křehký, chrt, so similar 😄
For me the most fascinating thing about this video was learning that there is such a thing as the International Congress of Phonetic Sciences.
Imagine - I live in Prague, and I can soak up the magical atmosphere every day!
And the beer
0:31 Oh my, I'm from Prague, I won't be able to unsee it now :D
As a swede, and therefore interested in hockey, i was always fascinated by the name Petr Vlk... :)
It is actually an animal: vlk = wolf
Absolutely amazing video! really appreciated the inside look of linguistics conventions and the interesting tidbits were really insightful
You, sir, are making vlogging cool again!
I always pay attention to small language-related things like signage whenever I travel. Enjoyed your doing the same.
One point about ř - some Czechs can't pronounce it correctly, and they pronounce it as a guttural r. I know a couple people who do this.
Love your work sir! Never thought that phonetics could be so fascinating. Look forward to your posts.
I have no idea why as a Czech I am watching this but surely informative to the non Czech audience
The reminder that most Czech words are stressed on first syllable reminded me of how my literature teacher told us that it makes it difficult writing poetry in a certain style (iamb?) because each verse is meant to end with a stressed syllable, so when one of our country's poets was writing in this style, he often ended verses with words that had just one syllable. That was interesting to me back then, and this video made me recall it.
Fun video! I was there in 2006 and walked across the same bridge with the other half of the word’s population. I now have a Czech colleague, so I appreciate the helpful, if brief, insights into the language.😊
There was so much in this video for me! I was a music major in university, and I love both the Moldau/Vltava and the ř sound! I sang in the chamber choir and we once did an arrangement of various Czech children's songs called Řikadla. Finally, I got to learn that as a Canadian I apparently have some of the R-fullest R's.
Ř is a very difficult consonant to learn and a very easy one to forget. My six year old still can't do it and I'm told that is not uncommon.
Thank you for this brief but interesting and most welcome dive into the beauty and intrigue of the Czech language. I was most pleased to see someone still enjoying my maternal language. 👍
Každopádně přeji krásný den. A doufám že k nám zase brzo zavítáte.
Oh and by the way.
I think Czechs have the R-iest R's.
As someone once said, the Czech people have the R of a growling dog. :)
I can watch light hearted, but informative, videos like this all day. Love the random quips about grammar in signage, etc. Thank you!
4:53 brought me to tears. Smetana's music and Praha's Vltava scenery so naturally combine into magnificience. Warm greetings from Slovakia, especially to our dear former countrymen behind Morava.
they do, I balled too.
A Russian scientist and a Czechoslovakian scientist had spent their lives studying the grizzly bear.
Each year they petitioned their respective governments to allow them to go to Yellowstone to study the bears. Finally their request was granted, and they immediately flew to Yellowstone.
They reported to the ranger station and were told that it was the grizzly mating season and it was too dangerous to go out and study the animals.
They pleaded that this was their only chance, and finally the ranger relented.
The Russian and the Czech were given portable phones and told to report in every day. For several days they called in, and then nothing was heard from the two scientists.
The rangers mounted a search party and found the camp completely ravaged, with no sign of the missing men. Following the trails of a male and a female bear, they finally caught up with the female. Fearing an international incident, they decided they must kill the animal to find out if she had eaten the scientist. They killed the female and opened the stomach to find the remains of the Russian.
One ranger turned to the other and said, " You know what this means, don't you?" The other ranger responded..
"I guess it means the Czech's in the male."
I know a joke with the punchline, "Rudolf the Red knows rain, dear!"
@@modjohnsenglishdisco , why then withhold it from us, dear? How cruel! 😀
@@tettazwo9865 I believe the setup to the punchline would be a person talking with their partner about the weather forecast as presented by a hardline Marxist weatherman called Rudolf.
I´m Czech and I´m not particularly happy with being put in the same joke as a Russian. Why Russian, for heaven´s sake? It could just as well be German or Romanian.
@@martavdz4972 Czech is in the male = check is in the mail. It's a pun. It wouldn't work otherwise.
Love it! Can't wait to visit and thank you for your thoughts.
Awww. I hope to see more of your adventures around europe.
Great video! As a native speaker, I can add an interesting fact about stress in Czech - the first syllable is always stressed except for the Ostravian accent which stresses the penultimate syllable.
However, if a word is preceded by a single-syllable preposition, the accent shifts to the preposition. MĚsto, VE městě.
@@vaclav_fejt What I hear from Moravians (and maybe even some Silesians) is that the last syllable in the word is pronounced more loud, especially when it ends with i, especially females are doing that really strongly. We stayed on a ranch and owner was saying "koníci" in a way that I had really problem to not laugh, it was like konicIIÍÍÍÍ and pretty muc all moravians speak like that, I hear it even from reporters in TV, but when I ask people from Moravia about that, they are very angry or even agressive and they deny that they talk like that, so I guess they really don't hear that.
BTW fun fact, Moravians are always making fun of "prague" accent, but they don't actually know how people from Prague sounds, they have no idea, they never been there in reality. We are all originally from Prague, but we arrived in a car with Poděbrady plate and they were asking from what village we are, they had no clue that we are all Praguers because we don't speak like they think we should speak. Praguers vice versa cut those endings, they don't say heléééé as Moravians think and if they do, you can be sure that person has relatives in western Bohemia and it's influence from that region, like for example my cousing, he is doing that halééé thing, but he has half of family in Karlovy Vary which explains that, it's not from Prague.
Hope you enjoyed Prague Dr Geoff!
What a fun trip to a very beautiful city, thank you for giving us this video ❤
I would really love to see you make more of these types of videos as well as your regular ones, this was really fun and I really enjoyed all the little tidbits of information
Czech vs Polish (English)
Č = CZ (ch)
Š = SZ (sh)
Ž = Ż (zh)
Ř = RZ* (don't know if English has an equivalent)
*RZ would be etymologically pronounced like Czech Ř but now it's pronounced like Ž/Ż/ZH.
I was in an English course with a Polish guy a few weeks ago and he pronounced his name, Przemek, with what deffinitely sounded close to the Czech unvoiced Ř sound to me. Czech people were the only ones to pronounce his name kinda correctly.
@@TerezatheTeacherI'm not a phonetician or a linguist, so take my words with a grain of salt, but as a Polish speaker I can't distinguish between Czech ř and ž (when ř is voiced). In Polish, voiced "rz" and "ż" are indistinguishable (they used to be historically). Although, "Ż" doesn't exist in an unvoiced variant I think (unlike "rz" in Przemek).
@@TerezatheTeacher
They might be speaking in a dialect closer to Czechia.
@ Interesting, thank you.
@@TerezatheTeacher when I listen to the tongue twister from this video, the "přes tři sta" fragment sounds to me exactly like the Polish words "przez trzysta".
Fun fact: "Die Moldau" by Smetana is the same melody as "Alle meine Entchen", but in ¾ instead of 4/4 😅
And the Israeli national anthem, and a popular song from the 1800s in Sweden, to name a couple. And many more. It's a bit of melody that got around Europe from about 400 years ago and got picked up by a lot of composers. The first known version is called "La Mantovana" and is from the late 1500s.
@@mytube001 thank you - how inspiring! I didn't know that and now searched for it 🎼🎶
And in minor, up until after the "rapids" section when it switches to major :)
Thank you for letting us see, hear and appreciate these small parts of your whirlwind day.
I just love this channel!
1:00 Likewise, Janáček is stressed on the first syllable even though the accent goes on the second a.
What a treat! You seem to have enjoyed your trip to Prague. I live in Prague and you're right, Karlův most / Charles Bridge is very crowded. I was there with a friend from China the other day and a Czech woman was crossing this tourist-y bridge and shouting in Czech: "Are there any fucking Czech people here?!" So I told her that I was a fucking Czech person. Seriosly, if she hates tourists so much, she could've picked any other bridge. You did a good job with the Czech pronunciations. I'd never noticed that the stressed syllabic L and R are interesting. Brno is not only interesting to pronounce, but also to visit. They have a big, slightly phallic clock that gives out a free glass ball at 11 a.m. every day. But you must pick one of the 4 holes in the clock at 10.15 and wait there for 45 minutes, or the "glass ball mafia" will take up all four holes and you'll lose your 25% chance of catching the ball. I've caught 2 in my life.
We typicaly come to Praha early in the morning. The night train from Slovakia arrives at 6 AM. So we can enjoy the bridge uncrowded.
Or maybe she just dreams of using it as a regular bridge? It's so crowded and everyone walks so slow it's just excruciating to cross if you don't intend to admire every statue. I hate it too, basically it's off limits to locals now, unless it's 4 AM (or COVID).
@@salamalkebab8377 Well, yeah, but there are so many bridges over the Vltava and only one is crowded with tourists. Being angry about tourists on the only touristy bridge is just a bit petty.
Why should the Czech woman choose a different bridge? It is her who is at home there. Are you stupid?
Not every time you get someone with such passion for their line of work that a work conference makes for an interesting watch! Great work as always, Dr Lindsey.
You gave my language more thought than I ever did. Had no clue there are such things as "phonetics congresses".
7:22 You can't substitute "nonnative speaker" with "second-language speaker" in my opinion. As a nonnative speaker, "second-language speaker" to me implies that the speaker is so good that it is hardly distinguishable and the speaker likely uses the language every day (C2 level), while "nonnative speaker" implies an ability to speak well but it is clear that the speaker does not use the language too often (A1-C1 level). It is not the same term.
Actually, in czech we sometimes write two "n"s although we only ever pronounce one. It happens in adjectives derived from root words ending in "n" by adding the "-ní" suffix. That's how we get words such as "cenný" = "precious". (derived from "cena" = "price") However! There is a fun exception, and that is the words representing animals: "jelen" = "deer". "jelení paroh" = "deer horn".
Anyways, great video, I love your humour and I hope you enjoyed your stay "v Praze". :)
Yeah, I think that was just his polite way to point out a mistake. With english being the official language of aviation, there really shouldn't be any mistakes in english at airports (not to mention gigantic signs).
@@Breznak I know, I just wanted to add something interesting to it ;)
@@bojr6174 and you did. I, for example, didn't know that the "jelení" thing was specific to animal related words.
@@Breznak Well, I'm glad somebody learned something new and interesting today :D
@@Breznak Yeah, it's weird that it's still there, someone important had to notice that, but it looks like they don't care.
This was delightful! It’s like a little peak into the world through your eyes. Reminds me of myself, always analysing the linguistic sights and sounds that surround us - but with far less of the expertise. You may have inspired a potential phonetics student 😊
What a nice video. Thank you!
Thanks you for the video, it is interesting to see a linguist tackle a minority and "difficult" language and you did a good job.
Regarding first-syllable stress in Czech: slavic languages share a lot of vocabulary and the stress-at-the-beginning rule is the big thing that differentiates a Czech word from, say, a Russian word. The difference is so big to a Czech, that I am frequently told off for "sounding like a Russian" or "not using a Czech word". Tak je dobre.
If your native language is English, then yes, English speakers who are trying to speak Czech very often sound Russian to us. Maybe it's weird to hear that, but English and Russian has some thing in common, like weird moving accent, not clear vowels, vowel reduction, schwa sounds, also English H is not that deep as our H so it can sound like combination of our H and CH, which is exactly like Russians pronounce that when they try to say our H, they will never pronounce it correctly. English speakers have at least advantage that they are familiar with long vowels, this is the main thing where Russians will always fail - words like ship and sheep, Russians will never pronounce it correctly because they don't hear that at all.
And Czech is very monotone langauge, when your accent is not always on the same place and all letters are not pronounced with the same loudness, you just sound Russian. 😀
As a Russian, Czech is one of my favourite languages to hear! It creates such an interesting effect in my brain. I simultaneously understand and don't understand what's being said 😀It's so familiar yet foreign at the same time.
it's the deeply embedded childhood memories of tři oříšky pro popelku, for me
German has a similar effect on native English speakers. English has roots in both Latin and Germanic, so the similar sounds feel so familiar, yet if you try to actually parse meaning (if you haven't actually learned German) it gets very confusing with some words making sense, some not at all and some only partially making sense.
@@comradewindowsill4253as well as we have childhood memories of Morozko (Mrazík, sorry don't have cyrilic installed)
Search for 'interslavic'. You feel like you shouldn't be able to understand it, because it's so wrong, but you do.
Not particularly happy to hear that, in the current political situation. Stop attacking Ukraine, then find the time to tell us you love our language.
As aczech I find this super interesting, thank you, and I am happy you enjoyed it here.
My favourite linguist in my home country, what a delightful surprise!
It has always been surprising to me how many layers the czech language has. It has the formal, informal, slang, argot, etc... layers with its own pronunciations, accents, even specific words and phrases. It is so difficult I am, as a native czech, actually surprised it is being used by only a tiny fraction of the world population. You'd expect this developed and complex language to be used by the Chinese or Indians (and I assume they have their own "czech" language for sure), it's just mind boggling. Why do we have such a complex and complicated language, especially its grammar, that is only used by a couple million people in the world, and by even fewer actually spoken (there is silecia and moravia and other regions with their own accents and almost their own variation of the czech language).
Seems like an interesting trip!
In Ukraine we have what I call "the normal Rrrr" -- I apologize! =) But In Czech they take it to another level. Still, I can pronounce it, haha
I cannot express how happy I am that you were in Prague. I love watching your channel because I always had interest in languages and to find out you visited the city that I lived in most of my life is amazing.
The congress looks super interesting and I am so glad so many people with such passion for language and phonetics can meet together to discuss and learn new things.
i love languages that put emphasis on length of sound, keeps the mumbling a little hair in check
0:28 “It’s a pain to remember two _m’s_ in “immigration” when we only say one.”
That’s actually one thing I like about Korean: in a word like 만나다 “to meet” there are two “n”s [ㄴ] in the word and _both_ are actually pronounced [mannada].
The Czech word "dvojjazyčný" (two-language) is also pronounced with two "j". The Czech word "panna" (virgin) can be also pronounced carefully with two "n". There are many such words - v pecce, nejjistější, rozzlobený, čtvrttónový, oddaný, hereččin, účinný...
@@breznik1197Technically, most of those words should be pronounced with both letters, it's just that not everyone does it.
Geoff, you're probably the creator on UA-cam with the highest ratio of engagement with your comments compared to the sheer number of them. And most successful UA-camrs don't have "real" jobs as well 😂
Do you find you're more easily recognized at conferences like this due to your UA-cam presence? Or even outside linguistics circles (e.g. in everyday life)?
Thanks for your kind words! I think I was approached by two fans in my day at the congress 🙂 Haven't been recognized anywhere else yet, but then I never go out because I'm always editing 🙃
@@DrGeoffLindsey You should hire an editor. maybe som1 in the global south if you feel comfortable with it and feel costs are prohibitive. My flatmate, here in Germany, has a Brazilian editor.
dobrý vysvětlení, zábavně podáno. :-)
This was very entertaining, thank you!
wow 3% for RP speakers is way lower than i would have thought, but i suppose the over abundance of RP villians or dominant characters over represents it. I wonder then why it is that we write fictional characters with that accent, even you mention i think in another video that the royal family has moved away from RP a lot.
it would be great to see a mini video of Sean Bean's accent vs his kids.
also more from the congress!
In fact, I am guessing Dr. Lindsey would quantify the percentage of Brits who speak RP as quite a bit LOWER than 3% (although I don’t want to put words into his mouth) since he reserves that term for only upper class people from southeastern England who developed their accents before the 1960s.
3% of native speakers is really little but don't forget about "second language speakers" who study English with Oxford/Cambridge textbooks wich teach to speak receivedly.
3% was the Peter Trudgill estimate in the mid 1970 for RP and although possibly on the low side then is probably on the high side now. He observed that many more people thought they spoke RP then than actually did, probably being SSB speakers. Although he also considered only 12% of people in Britain actually spoke standard English, whatever their accent!
Did you know the large bronze statue you're showing in Old Town square depicts Jan Hus, who introduced diactirical marks to the Czech language?
Considering all the little details in the video, I assume it was shown on purpose.
And got burned for it 😂
and it appears in the names of author and anti-hero of the Good Soldier Svejk...
What a great edit of a video especially at the end 🌺
Love your editing of the conducting by Jane Stuart-Smith. Wonderful!
Glad you liked it!