Why Do People Become Calvinists?
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- Опубліковано 15 сер 2024
- Why do people become Calvinists? How is it dangerous? How can disciples avoid falling into this system?
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I just think about my own conversion. I went to bed without any thought of God. I was happy in my sin. I woke up with the burning desire to trust and know Christ, and rested in Him. It must have been the Spirit at work, can't say I initiated that.
With me, I was unsure if I was saved, read scripture and realized that I was perhaps not. In reading the Word, it hit me in a moment and feelings of dread came over me and I poured out my heart to God. I feel that God reached down that day for me and touched me because after that moment I lost the desire to do some sins that I had been involved in, but could never seem to quit doing them before
So that's basing your salvation and how it happened based on your experience. Scripture says God will draw ALL men unto him.
"A burning desire"???? What are you a Mormon?? So you just woke up and without any choice at all based on nothing became a Christian???? Really??? What happens if next week you wake up with a burning desire to be a fire truck or a ballerina??? That is NOT salvation. You are LOST.
@@johnbreitmeier3268 @John Breitmeier Your response seems rather harsh. Yes there was a choice but I did not initiate that I would be saved that night I had dreamt the Lord had returned and I knew what that would mean for me as a sinner. I desired to be saved from the wrath to come. I knew I had to know Christ as Saviour, which made me think of Romans 10 v 9. I rested in Christ. It is enough that Jesus died and rose again for me.
@@Bibliotechno My response to you was kind enough to tell you the truth. Fool, if ythere was a choice YOU made that choice, not God. If you could not have turned it down, there was no choice. Quit listening to obvious lies. God made his offewr to you almost 2000 years ago. He may have repeated it that night (and many times before that) but YOU CHOSE that morning to accept the offer. If it was up to God He would have made that choice for you on the day of your conception. You would have never sinned, never disobeyed God. Why would God want you to disobey Him??? BUT YOU SAY YOU DID, so the activating choice was YIURS not God's. Calvinism is a lie that tries to get you NOT to make the choice you must make "because God will makke them for me. "
If I could lose my salvation I would 100 times over. Praise God for it is him who seals me, gives me understanding, strengthens me, gives me endurance and grants me repentance.
Because you've been misled by Calvinists, you believe that position you just stated is opposed by non-Calvinists.
Even Arminianism isn't the opposite of Calvinist. They both still believe in total depravity which isn't biblical. Calvinists have to use strawman arguments--lie about what their opponent believes and then destroy that false argument-- otherwise they are arguing against the entirety of the Bible and the very character of God and the overarching themes throughout the Bible which isn't a position you can argue effectively from. If you have to coerce and deceive people into believing your stance--it is not in the Spirit of Truth and can therefore not be of God. And when the Calvinistic response is pride and defiance and to slander an opponent--it is not of God. But it is consistent with Calvin, Augustine, Calvin's followers, etc. who did exactly the same thing.
Look at the propaganda put out by pro-Calvinist seminaries. They teach a completely fictional revisionist history of the reformation and specifically Calvin and then perpetuate this lie that it was myths perpetuated by Calvin's opponents. It's a false gospel, preaching a different God, a different Jesus, and a different spirit. It's a spirit of Calvinism--a religious pride demon.
Is the guy doing this video a Calvinist, and using a title that implies he is not? Just like deceiving innocent believers of a non calvinist church a new pastor comes in and doesn't say he's a Calvinist. That is very very WRONG and they will answer to that
@@lynnewilley9464 I don't believe so. I got a few minutes in and he starts to get into a more traditional view of Romans 9 (as opposed to Calvanist). I personally don't think it's the most sound explanation, for that I highly recommend believers to visit Dr. Leighton Flowers' UA-cam channel Soteriology101, he is amazing and very balanced. God bless you all stay strong in these challenging times In Christ
@@lynnewilley9464 ❌
@@tannerfrancisco8759 ❌
I started attending a confessional church, began reading the early church fathers and the Puritans, I grew my beard out, started to like stouts and dark ales… I didn’t choose this life-the Lord did!!
What do you mean by “starting to like dark ales”?
@@jars7774 it’s a joke. The stereotype is that calvinists like hearty drinks.
@@JosephsCoat thought so, but wanted to make sure , thanks
Calvinism is still biblical. You just don’t like the name “Calvinism” because it sounds evil. Sorry, that doesn’t have anything to do with anything, the Bible clearly says in John 1 that people don’t receive God by the will of man. And the Bible clearly says that the Son chooses to reveal the Father to whomever He chooses.
@@alil6547 I’m thoroughly a Calvinist… the point of my post. However, it’s not a very accurate name for what’s technically the Doctrines of Grace. This is because the Doctrines of Grace itself is not the sum of John Calvin’s teachings-there’s so much more! I also don’t agree with Calvin on everything. I’m not a paedobaptist and I disagree with him on matters of ecclesiology and political theory. Moreover, Calvin gets his doctrine of sovereign grace primarily from Augustine. Nothing about it originates with John Calvin. His name is not evil, however.
To answer your first question of why I became a Calvinist, simply put consistency. Consistent exegetical reading, leaves nothing else. It's not six or seven passages, it's cover to cover. Tota et Sola Scriptura.
take a look at election word occurance by beyond the fundamentals. I actually agreed with much of Calvinism and thought it was the most consistent but beyond the fundamentals and others changed my mind. also a video called election is nothing like you were told by beyond the fundamentals is great
@@eleazarfernandez9369 any guesses as to how many times the word "trinity" is used??
The number of occurrences is irrelevant to wether or not a doctrine is taught by scripture. Notice I said taught, not supported.
@@kellygipson8354 I'm guessing you haven't seen the video yet because the idea is not about the amount of times it occurs but the context surrounding the word.
@@eleazarfernandez9369 right, my point is that the word election is not by necessity where the doctrine of election is established. In other words the doctrine is established elsewhere, and then implied in the texts containing the word election.
No, I have not watched the video ,but given the horrible forms of argumentation here, and in the title of the video you suggested, I can deduce that it is more of the same.
@@kellygipson8354 maybe they should name it something else then? Because by defining terms different than what the Bible uses them can be confusing.
Hello Christopher,
I watched your video and as a Reformed believer, I appreciated several things. First, you referred to us as brothers. Thank you! These types of videos often discount believers of the Reformed faith as unbelievers or apostates. I have always believed that those of the Arminian camp are brothers as well. Second, this is the only video I have watched with you so I don’t know if you may have done this in other videos, but I didn’t see any big strawmen in this clip except a few smaller ones. You mentioned that the argument that Calvinists don’t evangelize is true to some degree. That argument is only true for hyper-Calvinists, not actual Calvinists. So, that is one strawman I saw. Just one more, you said a person in darkness would be in despair. If a person is in darkness they would be in their element, not be in despair (John 3:19; Eph. 2:1-3 “carrying out the desires of the body”; 2 Tim. 2:26).
Having said that, it seems to me that your whole argument for Romans 9 is based on, and I have to say it Christopher since you used it against us, you enforcing your philosophical system on your viewers. You claim that Romans 9 has been misinterpreted. Could it be you that is misinterpreting it? Could it be you, as you say, not facing this passage honestly?
So, if Jacob and Esau are not a type of the church or a type of Israel, it seems to me that your whole exegesis falls apart. I would like to offer several reasons why your interpretation is incorrect. Election of the church or Israel would not make any contextual sense in Romans 9. Paul has just told the Roman Christians that nothing could separate them from God’s love (Rom. 8:31-39). Would Paul be saying to the Roman Christians, “Don’t worry, you are corporately secure just like Israel?"
Also consider, along with the end of Romans 8, that Romans 9:1-5 sets the context for the chapter, “For I could wish that I myself were accursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my brothers, my kinsmen according to the flesh” (v. 3). Therefore, should we not conclude that the whole chapter is dealing with the eternal destinies of individuals (brothers)? How is the problem of eternally condemned, individual Israelites in verses 1-5 resolved if the rest of the chapter only refers to election of the church or Israel and not individual salvation?
Also, there is no mention of Israel or the church having done anything good or bad (v. 11). If one were to say this is only Israel or the church that Paul is talking about, could it be that “they are not facing this passage honestly”? Again, the emphasis here is to draw a connection between the type of election Paul just promised the Romans (Rom. 8:33) and the election of Jacob. Jacob’s election was not a just reward for any service, good or bad, and neither is the election of the Roman believers. If Romans 9 was about election of the church or Israel, what would these passages have to do with the stability of the Roman Christians’ election of chapter 8?
Much more could be said, but I will leave you to ponder these thoughts brother.
In Christ alone,
Patrick Foss
you may as well have a golden Buddha for your calvinist/ reformed god, but, at least buddhists reflect more Christlikeness than nearly all reformers. What a truly disgusting theology and systematic you subscribe to. Your choice .
Well said. I believe that Calvin's interpretation of the Bible is correct. It is very clearly written that God chooses us. That's not up for our interpretation to somehow manipulate it's meaning or change what is clearly stated to fit our limited understanding.
@@PapaPoohBear962 do you realize how convoluted your last few lines are?? You do have a funny youtube handle
Isn't it interesting that Christopher never responded to my challenges of his interpretation of Romans 9? Maybe he has no response!
🤔
Considering Calvinism is just another word for biblical gospel, and existed long before Calvin the only way to avoid it is to not read your bible
Sure… take this guys well thought out critique, make a straw man out of it, and beat it to death with that Calvinistic air of piety….
I became a Calvinist because I studied the bible for a decade, tried refuting Calvinism, read from Calvinists writers and discovered that I was just an inconsistent Calvinist already.
Ditto. Careful exegesis of biblical passages, moving book by book through the scripture, ended my man centered doctrinal ways. For a video refuting Calvinism, this guy sure fails to do exegesis and misses the greater point of the account: that it is God who does the choosing.
An inconsistent Calvinist is the only kind there is.
@@johnbreitmeier3268 cute. Praise God I'm a far more consistent believer (as a Calvinist) than I was before.
@@Given119 Except that what you believe is a lie. You must choose God. God gave you free will.
@@johnbreitmeier3268 pagan presuppositions. My will is no more free to do what is beyond my nature, than a leopard is free to change it's spots.
I was reading my Bible as a catholic. then I read Matthew ch. 16. "Blessed are you Simon Bar-Jonah for flesh and blood did not reveal this to you but my Father who is in heaven" Peter knew who Jesus was because God revealed it to Him. That is the Rock the Church is built upon.
It was reaved to Peter through evidence provided for by the Father. It was not a forced decision that Peter had no control over. Neither was it full conversion. Peter had yet to believe in the resurrection.
yeah but roman catholicism isnt the church
Feeling a little snarky today. Here’s my version of how you avoid Calvinism and being a Calvinist: 1. Never seek to understand what Calvinists actually teach, 2. Do not believe what the Bible says about God’s sovereignty, 3. Do not believe what the Bible says about mankind natural state towards or position before God, 4. Do not believe what the Bible says about Salvation is fully a work of God, 5. Do not actually think and follow through in the line of thought, 6. Twist the Bible’s meaning and teachings with pagan teachings and idolatry of free will and read that into the Bible, 7. Hate everything God says about Himself, Salvation, and man and indirectly call God (Jesus) a liar. 8. Lastly, listen to ignorant people who claim to be former Calvinists who teach against Calvinism but make strawmen and show their ignorance and prove that they are liars and they were never actually a Calvinist
how original Alex, I’m sure your macarthur glossy is already framed for you . Maybe you can be in the front row for the upcoming calvinist convention .
It’s ok Alex, every cult needs adherents. You had no choice.
@@truthseeker5698 actually don't care for MacArthur, and I don't know anything about calvinist conventions... I am pretty boring. I simply read the bible and a bunch of old dead guys... I don't even like contemporary christian theologians... so... yeah. thanks for the reply, friend. :) God bless.
Wow I can't even finish watching without a second comment. Do you really want to invoke John_3..
Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?”(He can't, that's the point. You must be born from above, not TO above but FROM above )
Most Calvinists aren't even born again and you want to invoke John 3?!
This is the lie Calvinists try to claim their opponents believe. They must slander and deceive in order to recruit.
No non-Calvinist, grace trusting Christian believes this. It is a strawman.
Non-Calvinists do not believe they are making themselves born again. They do not believe they are saving themselves. We are acknowledging that God drew us, called us, and we chose to humble ourselves before Him and cry out for salvation. We acknowledged our need of Him and surrendered. We finally saw His gift of grace and received it. You have to take a gift from someone otherwise you don't have it!
The entirety of the Bible is God telling people to choose Him instead of their own ways.
Calvinists have an unbiblical order to how salvation occurs. But so do most Christians because they don't get born again and then don't get Spirit-filled in short order as they ought. Instead "salvation" becomes this initial spark of faith which grows but they become religious through incorrect discipling and have a long, drawn out process of sanctification by works of the flesh and no real Spirit infilling, and the person doesn't fully surrender, doesn't receive the spiritual revelation of grace (justification), and doesn't get born again. They are the rocky heart soil in the parable of the sower but are getting slightly fertilized and watered over a long time.
And if you're not born again then you can't receive the Holy Spirit baptism with power to be an effective witness so your entire Christian life and ministry is all works of the flesh and false, religious, "fruits of the spirit". It's why reformed/Calvinists don't believe in the gifts of the Spirit--they are deceived into believing they have the full measure of the Holy Spirit and they don't, so He can't use them in that way. So in the religious pride, they come up with false doctrine to explain their inadequacies and why they aren't like the early Christians.
So humble yourself before the Lord and ask Him to really use you. He knows your heart. If you seek Him you'll get Spirit-filled and be 1000x the Christian you were before. It costs you everything which isn't worth much compared to the privilege of working for the Kingdom of Heaven.
Amen
@@tannerfrancisco8759 Those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
I switched to the Calvinist interpretation because there is no other option based on what the Bible says. I was once strongly of the mindset that a man can choose God in his own, basically the standard Billy Graham Arminian viewpoint. For seven years, I also believed that you could lose your salvation, despite originally believing in OSAS, even though I never originally had scriptural knowledge of it. I grew up in a Baptist church, and still attend a Baptist church, and I always heard OSAS, that was until Dan Corner's website used verses out of context and had me believing that interpretation. That said, Corner is a true Christian, but he is just wrong on believing in conditional security.
It was after I studied more in depth that I realized that eternal security has deep scriptural support. Once I started believing in eternal security, I stopped worrying and felt at peace.
Would you agree that Armenians is a branch of Calvinism and not the only other option left ?
I hope you do realize that it's not either be a calvinist or an arminian? Here is just a little preview to hopefully plant some seeds: The calvinist believes that God predestined those who will be saved before the foundation of the world, and hence has chosen individuals unto salvation. The arminian believes that God looks through eternity and saw those who will believe, and then predestined them to glory. But, the bible believer reads Ephesians 1, which tells us that God chose those IN HIM (in Christ) to be holy and blameless. Ephesians 1 is not about the Father looking at individuals and chosing individuals onto salvation before the foundation of the world, but it's about the Father loving His Son so much that any who are and will be in His Son are chosen. You see the calvanist and the arminian have taken the focus off Christ who is the only true chosen one before the foundation of the world and placed the focus on people. Not only that, but they have twisted this verse by claiming it is about people being chosen onto salvation. But it clearly tells us what those IN HIM are chosen for; to be holy and blameless.
Brother, as a Calvinist (loosely, I admit but still), I think you should focus on spreading the Faith in Indonesia. Take your focus off trying to shake down systemic understanding and spend your energies growing the local church into disciples of character and conviction.
Aren't you doing the same thing. There are people in your neighborhood who haven't heard the true gospel. When we share the truth, it's important to breakdown the false teachings of denominations and some other false ideas they may have of God.
Differentiating between a true and false gospel is essential in evangelism.
If you are a Calvinist even loosely, why does it matter what he does? The elect were then chosen before the foundation of the world and he can only do what God determined he can do. Do you yell at a rock for being a rock?? Please wake up from your delusion and realize that you are following an evil lie that is self evidently a lie.
You argue that Calvinists make a mistake in John 3:16 because they do not believe that when God uses a general word like world that God doesn't mean every individual within that world. So your argument is Calvinists are generalizing what they should individualize. But then you go to Romans 9 and claim that God is talking generally about Israel, not individually. So in John 3:16 we should individualize it, but it Romans 9 we should generalize it. Do you see that you're doing the same thing you are accusing Calvinists of doing, only in reverse?
They won’t admit it
Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned- Do you believe this verse means all?
@@jameshoyt3692 I don't know if you mean this to be a reply to me or not, but if you did, I don't know what this has to do with my comment.
They read the Bible. Ephesians 1:4-5, Acts 13:48, Romans 8:29-30, John 6:44 should I go on?
You did listen to the entire video, right?
@@garfd2 lol! Clearly he didn’t.
John 12:32
@@garfd2 Hey brother, do you believe you’re saved on grace alone and nothing of your own doing?
How to avoid being a Calvinist. Don’t believe what Jesus said.
fr haha
Like in John 12:32
@@mitchellcollins7370 and your point is?
I Love this
I would have never considered a Calvinistic interpretation of the gospel if I hadn't been taught it.
Decades of Bible study, allowing scripture to interpret scripture, never led me to those conclusions.
That doesn’t really mean much. There’s lots of biblical truth that is hard to fully grasp if you’re studying alone.
I bet your Romans 9 notes were slim.
There is no other way to interpret. The books of John, Romans, and Ephesians are clear that salvation is initiated by God and your eternal state is secure in Christ.
🎯
@@justanotherbaptistjew5659 No there is not. It is the LIES you have to be taught because they aren't really in there. Calvinism is a lie.
Some convert to Calvinism, because it appears to be the best church around. The entertainment based evangelical 'cool' church does not work for many Christians. They visit a Calvinist Church, and it appears sane, regular hymns, expository preaching. And then they get sucked into Calvinism. This is what happened to me, I just could not stand the mess of the staged entertainment of my church and wound up in a Reformed Church. If evangelical churches could go back to expository teaching, we would not have to worry so much about Calvinism.
Maybe it says something that those who faithfully teach the scriptures end up as Reformed 😉
@@2Nickcdj - Be careful with that, it's a revolving door. Calvinists are steeped in the law, and years of law with little grace has consequences. Like I said, "it appears", what it appears to be and what it is, are 2 different things.
I've been to Calvinistic churches with loud and entertainment worship, so I don't see that as a reason to go to one🤔. I left Calvinistic theology for many reasons, but chiefly, because, if God loved the world (John 3:16; see also 1 Jn 2:2 and many others on Gods provision for all people) then He does not love those who will never have opportunity to be saved because of His eternal decree to damn them (or just simply "pass over" them) Love is love. God is not a capricious respector of persons.. He does not love some people less than others. Calvinism's God is a monster. The God of the Bible is Holy love. He is the Just judge, but people do not go to hell because God determined they would. There are Biblical answers for Calvinism. This platform doesn't support a lengthy rebuttal. I would suggest getting to know Mike Winger, Leighton Flowers, David Allen. There are other godly scholars who do not hold the Calvinistic interpretation of Scripture. Be open minded.
"We don't have time to look into it lets just keep going" Lol!!🤣👍
Well Hell is not that far off. Why repent??
I'm a Calvinist, and I love you my Arminian and Provisionist brothers and sisters.
You are all blood bought by Christ.
God bless you all and let's keep on sharing the gospel. 🙏
They become Calvinist's because it's what the Scriptures teach and that which gives God all the glory. If you oppose the doctrines of grace, you show yourself to be self righteous.
Will you please take your meds,?? Your delusions are quite present in your troubled incoherence.
Why I am Calvinist God is sovereign.
And I'm sure you would agree that is the same reason I am not a Calvinist 😊
@@KingdomTheologyTV You rely on yourself and not fully on God
It is safe to avoid all "ism" and "schism."
Jesusism
They become them because they don’t do gymnastics with scripture. God “calls” Abraham out of Babylon, not the other way around. God loves Jacob but hates Esau-who is the firstborn, superseding inheritance tradition. Joseph’s brothers intend evil but God intends it all for good, to save lives. This sovereign God logic runs throughout the entirety of scripture and is simply undeniable once you see it. When I wasn’t “Calvinist” (we don’t like the implication that we’re followers of some 16th century guy), my hang up was this pagan Greek notion of “freewill,” my self-centered autonomy, which “God would never violate!” It’s simplistic, but most importantly unbiblical.
Q:How do you know you’re elect?
A: those who are predestined Keep pressing!
It’s that simple. 🙏🏽🤙🏽
Circular fool. Downright tubular.
@@johnbreitmeier3268 lol 😂 yee try to tempt me like your father the devil
In watching this video, I was rest assured in the calvanistic belief; that all who "want" to be saved will be saved because true conversion is initiated, carried out, and sustained by God. No one is missing out because unless God commission's it, they don't truly "want" it.
no hope for calvanists..."locked in that system".After converting to Calvinism,in that what you say is true; that upon repentance I had not said "Ah, I must be one of God's elect!", though there was an immense foreboding of I had nothing to do with my salvation, I have spent 10 years in ministry serving alongside non-calvanistic believers. I have even tried to adopt the free will belief system and studied Hebrews 6, the "fallen from grace" passage, along with right after the beloved Romans 9 in ch. 10 where it speaks of the natural and unnatural branches and looked up the different meanings to the Greek word "cosmo" or English "world", yet these scriptures could not prove indisputable evidence against predestination, limited atonement, etc.
Reading the old Testament is saturated with Sovereignty of God concepts and to OT prophecies pointing to God's Sovereignty. And of course John 17 would be the kicker for me in that Jesus "does not pray for the world but for those that would believe after these"... what if no one believed? It is a very slim but thereotical possibility none the less and that would make God a liar in many prophecies. Man's involvement with his own salvation just does not add up time and time again. Man's total rejection of God and enmity toward God is found all throughout the Bible, none more notable than the bystanders whom beheld with their own eyes the crucifixion of God Himself...
@TheLightis the Way Amen, to set the mind on the things of the flesh is flesh and to set the mind on the things of the Spirit is Spirit and the flesh cannot comprehend Spirit and so as Paul found mercy in his former ignorance may also a pharisee making those twice a postelite of hell as he who follow him; also find.
Exactly
Absolutely impossible to avoid a sovereign God in the day of judgement
His sovereignty and glory doesn't fit into the ran over, wet cardboard box the Calvinists put Him in.
absolutely likely many calvinists /reformers will hear away from me , I never knew you …,, but Lord Lord wait ….sola scripture , TULIP, Proper systematic ,…… truly insane to attempt to equate calvinisms god with the christian God.
God says: “declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things not yet done, saying, ‘My counsel shall stand, and I will accomplish all my purpose,’’ Isaiah 46:10
What did you guys say?
@@mrpadillaofficial God says He is love, one with sense will conclude, love necessitates choice. God will accomplish his purposes , even as evil, the satan , dark powers , ( see prince or persia, prince of greece in Daniel, ) work to delay and corrupt so much in this world and Gods work with us and in us.
@@truthseeker5698 That’s why our first parents had that choice. But now we’re in Adam, fallen, dead in trespasses and sins. A slave to sin until the Son sets them free. Amén for God’s grace and mercy!
Some people convert to Calvanism because it’s the true Biblically accurate doctrines given to us by God in the Bible. The best way to avoid Calvanism is to ignore plainly taught Biblical truths. Because it may contradict your personal feelings. Calvanism is not how you explained it. For those wanting to truly understand the Biblical doctrines nicknamed “Calvanism” should read Charles Spurgeon. He was a devout Calvanist and, as he rightly claimed, the doctrines of Calvanism are written in scripture as if with an iron pen..True Calvanist doctrines should absolutely cause no fear for anyone who loves God and wants to be holy and with God.
It seems unlikely that Esau being first born would refer to the people of Israel while Jakob born second refers to the church. Jakob is the man who God in fact renames Israel, and then his descendants his bloodline are called Israel. It is not convincing that God would use Esau to represent Israel and Jakob(Israel) to represent the church. It is much more likely that Esau means Esau and Jakob means Jakob.
Thank you for explaining to me why I’m a Calvinist.
You're welcome. But to be technical, I was telling non- Calvinists why you became a Calvinist. Gbu
@@KingdomTheologyTV I used my freewill offerings to cause myself to be born again in him to be elected for service. Corporately of course.
@@Ephesians-rz7zp interesting. Do u think free will offerings are related to this topic? And u think the Bible only teaches corporate election & election for service? And you think your choice is what causes God to regenerate you?
Seems you have interesting views, or you are just being sarcastic about some sophomoric anti-calvinist arguments online. I'm guessing it is the second 😉
Have a good day my fire d!
@@KingdomTheologyTV 7 What then? Israel failed to obtain what it was seeking. The elect obtained it, but the rest were hardened, Romans 11:7
The Israelites who used their freewill offerings to serve were 👉elected 👉corporately. The ones who didn’t use their freewill offerings were hardened. Otherwise it wouldn’t be real love.
Those he foreknew would use their freewill offerings he predestined for service as his sheep. The sheep must choose to use their freewill offerings otherwise true love couldn’t exist.
To not be a Calvinist, you must adopt some combination of pelagianism and open theism. The non-Calvinists may deny this by using innovative theological terminology, but their views inevitably boil down into these traditional categories.
People who are non Calvinist many times get accused of being man-centered..... Well think about the Gospel for a minute. Who is the Gospel directed at? Man!! So in a sense the Gospel is man centric. Many non Calvinists get accused of being Palegians ...... But I've never heard a non Calvinist say they saved themselves ever.... That's a straw man. God is the initiator. There's no argument there when one hears the gospel by faith. They believe it and if they do they will be saved. The Gospel is the power of God. That's what God desired.
@@martyroth2994 Marty, you are wrong. It is based on comparing scripture with scripture and arriving at the fact that man does not initiate it.
@@mannycano4599 this is why we say non calvinists are man centered. The gospel is all about Jesus and his glory through suffering for us. We are not the focus at all, Jesus is
@@jokinghazard4022 That's really ironic because who did Jesus die for? He didn't die for himself!! He died for humanity!! As far as God needing glory, God doesn't need glory. He's maximally glorious already. You think he needs praise from a dirt clod with eyeballs? Sure, he created us to praise him but God is already maximally glorious and nothing we do or say will change that.
Before I learned about Calvinism and armenianism I never believed in either of them. I have found it to be very confusing and difficult to learn scripture now after learning about these things. I think I'm going to go back to believing in neither armenianism or Calvinism cuz neither of them makes sense to me at all. I think people just try to understand things that they're not capable of understanding. It kind of reminds me of psychology. I find it sad that we have to pick our Bible apart in this way.
You are either saved by Grace or you are not. Ephesians 6:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. If you chose God then your choice is why you were saved.
Anything we do in terms of calling upon the name of the Lord, confessing the Lord Jesus and believing in His name in the death, burial, and resurrection, and His sacrifice for the remission if sins, IS because God has began the work in us.
@@willp.8120 I'm good with that, God moved first.
@@kgar5String I was just agreeing with you in the original comment and expounding upon it.
I have not as of yet heard an anti-reformed person accurately define the doctrines of grace and then refute it with a lucid, accurate, exposition of the scriptures. The video is no exception. All of my brothers in Christ who loath those of the body of Christ who are reformed should at least accurately define the Reformed faith before depicting us as those who are virtual heretics for believing God is sovereign over all including the salvation of those who are radically depraved.
Many that are Calvinists are seeing the error and coming out of that theology Praise the Lord!
The have left the faith, Jesus said he never knew them.
Predestination and Eternal Security pre dates Calvin and Augustine, it was preached by Jesus and Paul.
Passages such as Romans 8:29-30 and Ephesians 1:5-11 explicitly teach that God predestines some to salvation. The word translated “predestine” means “determine the destiny before.” There is no escaping the fact that God predetermines who will be saved. On what basis God predestines who will be saved can be debated, but predestination itself is absolutely a biblical teaching. Numerous other New Testament passages also refer to believers’ being chosen or elected to salvation (Matthew 24:22, 31; Mark 13:20, 27; Romans 8:33; 9:11; 11:5-7, 28; Ephesians 1:11; Colossians 3:12; 1 Thessalonians 1:4; 1 Timothy 5:21; 2 Timothy 2:10; Titus 1:1; 1 Peter 1:1-2; 2:9; 2 Peter 1:10).
A totally “free” will would be the capacity to make choices without any external constraints or coercion. There is nothing in the Bible that teaches human beings have this type of free will-only God is perfectly free from all constraint. One difficulty in the discussion of predestination vs. free will is the common understanding of free will being the absolute freedom to do anything we choose. This is not how the Bible presents free will, nor does it match reality. Our freedom is always limited by our circumstances and our nature: e.g., we are limited in our “freedom” to fly because we are not, by nature, birds; and we are subject to physical laws such as gravity and aerodynamics. The Bible teaches that without Christ we are “dead in our trespasses and sins” (Ephesians 2:1). If we are spiritually dead, surely that impacts our decision-making. John 6:44 says that, unless God draws, no one can come to Christ for salvation. If the decision whether to trust in Christ is impossible without God’s “interference,” our will is not totally “free.”
I'm not concerned with not becoming Calvinist, but rather remaining biblical. The biblical position, viewed consistently and not just spread-s hotting whatever texts I want to prove what I want to believe about the character and nature of God is "Calvinism/Augustinianism," or just good ol' fashioned sovereignty of God. I find it interesting that the brother in this video didn't even give a context for John 3:16, but just assumed that his prior understanding built upon his own philosophically influenced theological presuppositions (Ala what constitutes genuine free will, what constitutes the love of God, etc.) MUST be the ONLY correct way to understand the text, and to see it any other way MUST be in error. Poisoning the well to say the least. I'd like to say that I've heard convincing statements concerning anti-Calvinism, but alas, this is really just the same ol', same ol'...
Yet Calvinists do the same except they read the entirety of scripture through select passages rather than select passages through the entirety of scripture.
@@erikgriffith8857 What does this even mean? As a Protestant, yes, I believe in the Analogy of Faith, or that Scripture is its own best interpreter. But each Scripture must be taken on its own merit, and then the clearer passages can help interpret those that are a little more difficult in light of clearer sections (for instance, 1 Tm. 2:15; 2 Pt. 3:9; 1 Jn. 2:2, etc.). This is just wise hermeneutical practice, so I'm not sure the nature of your objection or even what you're trying to communicate. Can you give a justification as to why the Arminian should get a "pass" to say that John 3:16 can just "be taken on its own merits" (i.e. atomized from the context and then shoved onto every passage that may seem to teach "hard" predeterminism or election) but Romans 9-11 or John 6 cannot? Thanks! (Btw, I've heard a number of Arminians quote John 3:16 before trying to slam the door in a hapless Calvinist's face, as if this verse refutes the Calvinist point. As a Calvinist, I believe wholeheartedly in the promise of John 3:16, lol!)
@@bellmishpokhe I'm not certain how I can be more clear. For that, I'll put the blame solely on me. I suppose an example I could provide would be understanding the hardening of Pharaoh's heart by God coupled with the following passages of Exodus 8:15, Exodus 8:32, and Exodus 9:34 which clearly state that Pharaoh hardened his own heart. The non-Calvinist might emphasize these scriptures over other passages but the Calvinist might brush over the aforementioned verses to make his case. Since scripture indicates two seemingly contradictory ideas, one can embrace the cognitive dissonance (i.e. people are predestined but are still culpable for their sin) as a "mystery" requiring faith or they can intuit from scripture that passages like 2 Peter 3:9 are the default setting and that God was allowing and even facilitating a recalcitrant to Pharaoh to continue in his folly which would eliminate the cognitive dissonance, retain the authority of scripture, and promote the sovereignty and love of God simultaneously.
The strength of Calvinists is their ability to accept God on the harshest terms but it is a choice that I see as completely unnecessary given a clear reading of scripture. Of course, you may disagree. The beauty of it all is that Calvinists and non-Calvinists still worship Jesus. This debate is important but I'm not certain it's vital. I hope that explains my position better.
Finally, since I've made my peace with Calvinism and Calvinists despite my rejection of the doctrine, my reconciliation should be reflected in my actions, namely not posting comments on videos about the issue or even watching them for that matter.
' Prior understanding' really! I've yet to meet or hear anyone who does not use that human facility whatever denomination or religion they profess.
@@glennbaker7914 Exactly, I do as well, just as I assume that God's Word is inerrant and infallible and completely sufficient before reading the text. I just wish more people like the presenter in this video were honest about it instead of unfortunately accusing Calvinists of having unjustified a prioris when approaching the text of Scripture when he's not willing to be up front about his own (not saying that he is being dishonest, it may just be an honest mistake, and I am willing to bet it is). Therefore, your incredulous objection is unwarranted, but I do apologize for not making that point more clear, for this is what I was driving at. Thanks!
From my experience, for some, Calivinism has become its own religion, where people idolize John Calvin as though he, and his writings, is the Paraclete himself. Paul Washer gave a lecture titled "What is the Gospel" in which he used Ezekiel 36: 21-23. From that lecture, one would conclude that the Gospel is this: since God had pitty for his holy name, which Israel profaned among the heathen; that God , not for their sakes, but for the sake of his holy name, will sanctify Israel so the heathen shall know he is God. Is that the Gospel? What is the gospel, and where is it found in the Bible? Can you Answer that question HONESTLY, without googling and searching everywhere first?
So you think you can save yourself? The entire Bible says I can’t. It’s in everything I read.
I was becoming a Calvinist until finding soteriology 101 and beyond the fundamentals on UA-cam
beyond the fundamentals is also a good channel too. especially his video election is nothing like you were told and also predestination is nothing like you were told. also his biblical interpretation series
beyond the fundementals are mid acts dispensational which teach two gospels that paul preached one gospel to the gentiles and peter preached to the Jews. that is what they beileve just a gentle warning :) god bless you!
@@suzy686868 I'm not sure if he is, he interviewed a guy who is recently just to understand the view more. But even if he was it doesn't mean he is wrong about everything. There no such thing as a perfect pastor who gets everything right. I definitely agree with his refutation of Calvinism but doesn't necessarily mean I agree with everything he says. We need to learn to eat the meat and spit out the bone like some say . I also like John macarthur but I learn to do the same thing with him and with anyone I listen to
@@suzy686868 thanks for the concern though it's always good to question everything with scripture
Soteriology 101 is downright Pelagian, and an utterly unreliable guide.
Great video, brother. God bless.
To think that the Lord and creator of the universe ( and the one that knew you and knit you together) doesn't know you well enough to also know if you're ultimately going to accept or reject Him just seems silly to me.
If somebody is reading into Romans 9 that God hated Esau Then what are they doing in Malachi 1 when it says the same thing?
@Ben Jones God still hated Esau. The bible literally says so.
Because it’s what scripture says if you don’t layer a worldly philosophical construct on top of scripture
Thank you for that explanation of romans 9 im kind of trying to get out of calvinism in my own mind 😊 i pray that God help people that are living the same confusion in Jesus name 🙏🏽✨❤️
I think Romans 9 explains salvation in a detailed way.
Lets start this discussion:
God loved Jacob and hated Esau before they were born.
Now thats where MANY got the passage wrong. They believe that in eternity past, before the foundation of the world, and in that eternity God knows Jacob will choose God thats why God chooses Jacob and then God hated Esau because God knows that Esau will reject God.
The PROBLEM with idea is that IT CLEARLY, CRYSTAL CLEAR go against what the Bible says about man's CONDITION that he is DEAD in his trespasses and sins (Eph 2:1, Col. 2:13)..
So how can a dead person chooses life over death if he is dead himself? He cant.
Second if man can freely choose God in eternity past, then isnt it obvious that man gets the glory and not God?
Lets go read 1 Cor. 1:26-31..
There you can see clearly that God is 100% the author of our salvation. God chose the FOOLISH, the WEAK, the LOW and DESPISED. Stop there.
And now look inside your church. There were not many rich, wise, strong people and many were the weak, the foolish, the low and despised by society. Now, IF the FOOLISH, the WEAK, the LOW and the DESPISED, are the ones, with their own will and strength chooses God, how can you end human boasting?
Lets go back to Romans 9.
Is there injustice with God? No, no, no. Now look at Romans 9:22 What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has "endured much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction", in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory.
Now focus in those words endured with much patience.
God endured the stubborn and gives glory to those he chooses for glory.
The bible NEVER said that God created vessels of wrath prepared for destruction. Thats double jeopardy. That passage is where many are accusing God of a monster who just created humans prepared for destruction. We are all sinners before God and if God SHOWED mercy to some and give justice to others, we can not say God is not just. Thats why we believers are to pray for those who are consistently rejecting God and beg God that He will have mercy on them. We dont congratulate ourselves that we are wiser than others because we chose God. Remember, Jesus said, you did not choose me but i chose you. In our dead state we can not choose God, that is why Jesus said to Nicodemus you must be born again. John 3:3-8 clearly says that it is God (Holy Spirit) that makes a man born again before he can believe God. It is God's sovereign grace. Then Jesus continued in John 3:15-16 that whosoever believe.
Now what is the necessary condition before anyone gets born again? Which comes first, the Holy Spirit's action of choosing or man's choosing?
This is critical because if man comes first in choosing, then Jesus is wrong.Correct?
Now notice that those twin truths never contradict each other in the same chapter of John in the bible. How those twin truths do not contradict each other, i dont know...its just there and the bible never says anything more about it...
What is clear is that God gives mercy to whom he will have mercy and he hardens those who reject his grace and we believers are commanded to proclaim the good news to everyone in all the world. Matthew 28:19 we are commanded by our Lord to proclaim the good news. That is our gospel duty.
@@chrisrealino6684 the context of Romans 9 is God hardening Israel (rom 11 25)for pursuing salvation by works. Also Israel thinks it's unfair that God is extending mercy to the gentiles and they don't have to follow the law but simply by faith. Who is Paul sorrowful for in the beginning of the chapter? ( Israel)... Chp 10 again he is saying they that he wants them to be saved because they have a zeal but not according to knowledge. And Romans 11 32 actually says whom God wants to extend mercy to . So yes God will have mercy on whoever he wills. It's just not a narrowing of mercy but an extension. God has hardened Israel in order to engraft the Gentiles that even through them Israel might become jealous and be saved too Romans 11 31. Rom 11 11
@@chrisrealino6684 also Ephesians 2 11-13 describes being Dead as being separated from Christ not the inability to respond to the gospel. So if you're not in Christ you are dead in your sins . Ephesians 1 13 tells you how a person gets into Christ.
@@chrisrealino6684 you say if a person has the ability to accept the gospel he can have some of the glory? That's nonsense. I know you're simply saying that because that's what Calvinist teach they're followers to say. (I was there at some point) but take a look at Romans 3 27 wich says being saved by faith excludes boasting. Anyone who understands salvation correctly would not boast or take glory for himself, that's a Calvinist misrepresentation. I understand some non Calvinist misrepresent Calvinist as well but we should avoid being those guys
@@chrisrealino6684 John 3 3-8 does not teach a person has to born again to believe. Your bringing that into the text. It says if you are not born again you cannot See or Enter the kingdom of God. John is assuming you already read chapter 1 and 2. Chapter 3 tells you that God causes whomever he decides to to be born again so they can see and enter the kingdom of God. Chapter 1 tells you vs 12 that to as many as received him it was to them that he gives the power to become sons of God and to be born again not of the will of man but of God. So God's choice is whomever receives him is born again. Not the other way around
Jesus loves Calvinists and Arminians 😇
Simple answer. After being regenerated by the Holy Spirit ( born again ) They begun to see the lies of Arminianism and the truth about the natural man's heart, mind, thoughts, actions which clearly display, left to himself how incapable he is of ever coming to Christ. Praise God though for His Sovereign Grace by which HE saved a wretch like me.
Why do people become "calvinists": They read the bible focusing on Gods glory and sovereignty/let the text speak
How to avoid "calvinism": Don't read the bible or read the bible focusing on yourself/speak into the text
Lamentations 3:37-39
New International Version
37 Who can speak and have it happen
if the Lord has not decreed it?
38 Is it not from the mouth of the Most High
that both calamities and good things come?
39 Why should the living complain
when punished for their sins?
God does what He pleases gentlemen.
1 Corinthians 1 21 says another thing that he is pleased to do.
"Calvinism is the Gospel and nothing else." - Charles Spurgeon
He was wonderful, but wrong.
The gospel is defined in Romans 1:16
The most stupid quotes ever
Calvinism is a false gospel if you look at it objectively. It is who the devil would be if he were God, not who God actually is.
As Paul said--different gospel, different God, different Jesus, different spirit.
@@tannerfrancisco8759 Do you really believe we are saved by grace alone and nothing of ourselves?
i am a Mid-Acts Dispensationalist and pre-tribulation rapture believer. Calvinism is a little to Catholic for my beliefs. I was raised in both systems, and respect both systems and believe that both systems a believer will obtain Heaven. I just prefer Dispensationalism over Calvinism. Both Systems of Beliefs have their own faults. No system is totally correct. it is just a matter of what a believer has been trained in and holds on to. Some belief system within the Christian Theology is a bit closer maybe than others, but all in all I am not going to knock one for the other. Calvinism seems to be more on the Scholastic level than Dispensationalism, but I am a simple- minded believer anyway. So, I am not going to cast stones at my Calvin Brothers and Sisters, I hope they don't cast them at me as well. AFTER ALL WE WILL BE IN HEAVEN TOGETHER SERVING THE FATHER FOR EVER. I do know that many Christians say that we Dispensationalist believe in Easy Believism but just remember it cost the father everything. amen
Brother, you might find this interesting. It is the first in a series covering the main theological systems. Particularly dispensationalism & covenant theology. But ultimately pointing to the historical perspective of the early church
ua-cam.com/video/nAXUtFPDylU/v-deo.html
The later videos touch on each one individually.
Gbu
The church and the true Israel are not different groups. God has always had one people.
The church is not Israel
@@kgar5String children of the promise (those who place their faith in Christ are the true Israel. That's what Galatians and Romans teach.
@@zacharycutts721 No it doesn't
@@kgar5String yes it does. The true Israel are all those whose hearts are circumcised. They are the ones who trust in Christ. Not who are ppl physically Israel are actually Israel. The Gentiles have been grafted into the tree. Through faith they have joined in Israel and become one with them. God has only ever had one people. This does not mean that there is no promise for physical Israel. But Jews who ultimately reject Christ are not God's people.
@@kgar5String Please read Romans chapter 11, as it clearly states that the Jews who do not believe are cut off from the cultivated olive tree and the gentiles who believe are grafted in. There is on body, one church, one bride, one Husband, one Mediator, and one Lord over all, Jesus Christ.
It didn't hate in human sense to esau.he simply means he preferred
Hmm. That's not what it says.
@@PapaPoohBear962 He’s talking about how the word “hate” is defined here. How would you define the word hate in this verse????
““If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple.”
Luke 14:26
@@PapaPoohBear962 The word hate here MUST mean “to prefer over another for a purpose” for scripture to be true and not be contradictory. So you can either accept the proper definition and come out of the false doctrine that is calvinism or accept that you believe Jesus contradicts Himself when He says “love your neighbor” but “ hate your father.” I’m sorry but you cannot interpret hate the way you are that’s false.
@@PapaPoohBear962 The word hate here MUST mean “to prefer over another for a purpose” for scripture to be true and not be contradictory. So you can either accept the proper definition and come out of the false doctrine that is calvinism or accept that you believe Jesus contradicts Himself when He says “love your neighbor” but “ hate your father.” I’m sorry but you cannot interpret hate the way you are that’s false.
@@obrien709 Calvinism is not false doctrine but you can have your beliefs. You are correct that Jesus is referring to choosing Him over our family but to suggest that God does not hate, when he clearly stated his hatred to many practices and people who reject Him. That verse couldn't be more direct and clear but you have your belief and I have mine. God bless.
There are a lot of the typical misrepresentations about calvinism here. You don't have to worry about being elect. All who believe are saved. And scripture does interpret scripture. It is true that we can't just pick random proof texts.
Here’s what I don’t understand with this argument. Why doesn’t anyone talk about practical personal experience? When we’re born again, we receive the Comforter, who is our comforter and also our guide, the One who reproves us of sin, and teaches us the Word, and warns us of coming Judgment. If we would remain keen to this Guide, if when we feel uneasy, uncertain, or even condemned, we would search out the will of God in our lives, HE WILL GUIDE US INTO ALL TRUTH. Of course the Bible is our guide, the very basis of everything because it contains the whole will of God and His word became flesh which is our Savior. But you can ask 10 different people the meaning of one verse and you may very well get 5 different interpretations at least. No one seems to mention the vital importance of first of all possessing the Spirit, but also walking in the Spirit, listening to the Spirit, etc. I think it’s largely because of these dangerous doctrines such as Calvinism in which faith is not even necessary (why would it be if we have no free will and everything is predetermined?), that has conditioned us to believe that feelings have no bearing whatsoever in faith and in a sense that’s true but when Jesus says my joy i give unto you, is that not felt? When Paul says there is therefore no condemnation to those who walk in the spirit, is not condemnation a feeling? So, doctrines such as Calvinism will speedily kill faith and quench the Holy Spirit in our lives to where He will depart from us and leave us open to pride, because the default nature of man without the Holy Spirit, is one of pride. That pride wraps them in its comfort, blinds them, makes them lukewarm which is worse than cold, makes them become their own savior, and they warm themselves by their own “fire”. But early on, the Holy Spirit was faithful to warn them, but for whatever reason they had grown discouraged, their fervency was gone, their joy was suppressed, and it was FELT! People around them noticed something was missing in their spirit and walk of life, but we’re so conditioned in our time to never get personal with people, that’s an invasion of personal privacy or whatever, so no one came to them and asked them, Brother, Sister, how is it going in your walk with the Lord? I notice that you don’t seem happy and joyful, or I notice in you a certain pride that you carry, etc etc. so they continue on and by the time they accept something like Calvinism, many things had already transpired in their hearts. They had been warned. They had either lost their joy or they had never truly repented and became as little children. That is another option. If we come to the Lord on our own terms and do not humble ourselves, first of all He won’t save us and forgive us, and we will still have our old proud carnal nature. Our will has not been submitted to the obedience of Christ and we still walk in our sins. What I’m trying to point out is the necessity of personal practical experience in our journey with God. I have many struggles in my walk with God and I have sought counsel with others and it seems like this practical experience is missing. They quote many scriptures and make appeals to logic, but to say I face the same battles as you do, and this is how I find victory, is just not there like i wish it was. Christian life is a journey, a pilgrimage, it’s not on what your intellect is, it’s not theology in itself, it’s practical experience.
Just like once saved always saved I KNOW not to be true because of personal experience. And yes it does involve feelings. They are there for a reason. If we’re keen to the Holy Spirit, we will know the difference between his instructions and the fiery darts of the wicked. But joy is felt, love is is felt, comfort is felt, and warnings are also felt. Condemnation is felt. Faithless, fruitless doctrines such as Calvinism, will wrap you up in deception and it works through the base nature of man to promote pride, and even arrogance. Faith is not needed, obedience is not needed, enduring to the end, watching and praying and resisting temptation is not needed which is totally and completely adverse to the pilgrimage of faith that Christ taught us.
You can avoid calvinism by stopping reading the Bible, or skip the uncomfortable parts.
You can avoid Calvinism by not reading the Bible
@ 8:27 For about a minute you spoke of how Calvinist interpret Jn.3:16.
While I don't adhere to all of Calvinist or reformed doctrine I do the doctrines of grace. In
John 3:16 you rightly stated how I would explain it, but I don't use Roman's 9 to comprehend that only the elect will be the "whosoever"
The context of John 3 starts with Jesus in 2:23 ..."many believed in His name....24 and 25 Jesus was not entrusting them...He knew what was in man....from there in steps Nicodemus, religious elite of his day, teacher of Israel, acknowledges Jesus and doesn't even get to ask a question but is told by Jesus you must be born again to see the Kingdom of God...
Nicodemus doesn't get it yet Jesus repeats himself and adds born of water and spirit (which should have brought Ezek. 36:24-27 to mind of this great teacher of the Old Testament Bible) and also flesh only produces flesh, *Spirit produces spirit.*
Don't be amazed Nicodemus, now why would Nicodemus be amazed? Cause his entire thinking on salvation is up to him, do this, do that, see the Kingdom.
Jesus chews on Him a bit and then says that He must be lifted up, just as the serpent was in Moses day that brought healing when they looked upon it. Jesus must be lifted up, Now vs 15: so that whoever believes will have eternal life,
Vs 16: whoever believes in Him shall not perish...
With the early part of the conversation with Nicodemus still in mind, "you must be born again," where does that leave open that "whoever" means anybody in the entire world can come freely of their own will? You have to take 3:16 out of its passage and quote the King James to get there, but if you look at the context of the passage whoever means a group of people that believe, it says nothing about who can believe, just that whoever believes will be saved.
All that believe will be saved.
If you believe it's because you were born again, from above and you actually had as much to do with your second birth as you did first birth, hence Jesus analogy.
God done it, in eternity past, Praise Him for it, He gets the glory and that is His business.
And yes I learned it.
As with most all teaching in the Bible we learn it, you may learn about free will first because we read repent and believe, so automatically we think, if it's a command a sinner must be able to obey, sounds logical, but God says no one seeks for Him or is capable, He says we're dead not sick, so if God doesn't intervene you won't repent and believe. If you do it's because the Holy Spirit has done been there. Not hard if you just accept it for what it says in context of the passage it's written in, but it does crush our pride.
And that seems like a very good thing. 😊
And boy does it crush our pride! I'm an atheist turned Christian but not by my power but God's alone. If you told me 10 years ago I'd one day be a Christian and be teaching 3rd-6th graders about God. I'd laugh in your face because back then i was an enemy of God.
True believers in Christ believe in election & predestination because Scripture points to it.
True believers can interpret predestination and election, differently, however.
I am of the belief that the Calvinistic belief of predestination is the correct Biblical interpretation. However in no way would I call Arminians who believe in a different interpretation unbelievers because if they have believed on Jesus Christ and his work, then they are saved and sealed.
@@willp.8120 I would agree, to a point. Per Pentecostals, for example, there is a distinction between "faith + works" and "faith + faithfulness" to remain justified, I've met many Pentecostals who have absolutely insisted that 'Christians can lose their salvation," to the point of screaming. For some, their answer is "They lost their salvation because they didn't deserve it." Hence, a muddiness that leaves me thinking, "Does this person actually understand the Gospel?". But yes, I think the majority of 'believers' who are arminian are truly saved yet reject election & predestination, although I hardly talk about election since I'm liable to be mistreated.
So Luke 14:26.it says hate your parents. It didn't mean hate them.it means if you love your parents more than me.
Yes Lawrence, you are correct.. This is misunderstood . "Hate," means, to love Esau less than.....Jacob.
One must understand Hebrew and Greek as well as Jewish idioms.
Thank you Mr. Christopher for your well thought out presentation! Thank you for presenting it with clarity but also work humility- treating the other side with grace and representing their views fairly.
May God bless you, and use this message to console those who are wrestling with scripture, trying to read it in context! Thank you! From the bottom of my heart!
You shouldn't seek to "Avoid becoming a Calvinist" but rather to simply follow the Bible. What is true? Follow that. As a Calvinist I don't seek to avoid becoming an Armenian but I simply seek to be as Biblical as I can. In my view, that leads me to Calvinism.
There is zero reason NOT to be a Calvinist. John 3,6,10 ,17 Romans 9-11 Ephesians 1-2 . This guy may be a fellow believer but His understanding of what Scripture teaches is poor. If you don’t understand the DEADNESS of Man according to Romans 1-3 . Most Christians believe Man is injured or hurt not DEAD as Scripture teaches . Ephesians 2: 1-10 . John 5:21 explains a lot . Matthew 11:27 Luke 10:22 Acts 2:39 , 12:48 John 6:44,65 . Calvinism is what Scripture teaches. Denial is a terrible thing .
Are we sure this isn't a Calvinist plant? I'm pretty sure this video will convert more christians to Calvinism than not, especially for the critical thinkers.
And, by the way, Calvinists don't beleive God has determined to do anything arbitrarily or randomly. All He has determined to do has been determined by the wise counsel of His will.
I will also contend I mean I'm not saying anyone is a liar who claims otherwise, but I don't believe most people come to Calvinism strictly from reading scripture. They are introduced to Calvinism from a teacher or pastor that is Reformed themselves.
@Ben Jones Well that's a strawman Anyway, no one is saying that their free will saves them!
@Ben Jones I mean the analogy of the individual that has fallen over the side of the ship and the captain comes and throws one of those little dingy things over and says grab onto it and I'll save you from drowning! And then once the individual is saved they go around bragging. Did you see how I grabbed that dingy and saved myself? Yeah nope I don't think anyone in their right mind would say that it's the same with Jesus saving us
. We were not drowning in our sins and trespasses were were dead in them. Dead men can't reach out for a life saver. Jesus came to seek and save that which was lost.
@@michellejones8556 dead means separated from God not corpse like dead and can't respond to God.
@@michellejones8556 what would be the point of preaching the Gospel to dead men who can't respond?
The tenets of Calvinism, deeply rooted in the Bible and upheld by logical reasoning, are the reasons why people embrace this belief system.
Calvinists accept God's absolute sovereignty and that due to our sinful nature, we are unable to participate in his sinless divine action of redemption and salvation, which makes logical sense.
Because he is a god of order, God does not wait for sinful people to make up their minds before he can continue to unfold his predetermined plan.
I urge you to study the Bible more closely and not lead people away from God.
So then your reading of Scripture is open to your interpretation to fit your perspective?
By the way, your explanation of Calvinism is a caricature, the Scriptural teaching isn't "well, it doesn't matter what you do, God arbitrarily chooses." It's disappointing someone who has taken it upon himself to teach this doesn't accurately understand it. If the sinner comes to Christ, he will be saved. Brother, I encourage you to study this more, listen to articulate proponents of the doctrines of grace, and stop opposing strawmen. Fairly represent the position you oppose. You're rehashing tropes that have all been addressed and refuted. It's not a philosophy or a system.
In your dealing with Romans 9, how does your explanation make sense of Paul's answer to the anticipated objection? "Who are you, O man, who answers back to God?" God only hardens those who harden themselves? Is that what the text says?
I would be more than happy to discuss any of the passages you have claimed Calvinists take out of context and show you how they are not taken out of context at all. You need to accept the very real possibility that you are the one who has taken passage out of context. Of course, we are to interpret John 3:16 in the light of the rest of Scripture. Scripture as a whole IS the context and one group of verses should never be used to discount another group of verses. I would be more than happy to send you a file of my book titled, "Battleground Passages" I think you will find that I have considered context very carefully. I would ask you this. What is there in the context of John 3:16 that demands that you understand kosmos as having a meaning that it has almost nowhere else in the New Testament? In one verse in John chapter one the word occurs 3 times and none of them refers to every person without exception.
Be honest, it’s 2022 and the people who saw what was coming, understood it, and are standing against evil at the root cause and mostly Calvinist, with a couple traditional Catholics sprinkled in...
OK praising God I came back in at like 9 minutes instead of from the beginning again. Some kind souls replied to me letting me know that you weren't just another Calvinist coming in stealth with a title to draw in non calvie's. That is IT the few misunderstandings (kindly speaking_) toward a VERY few passages in the bible...and then every scripture is now defiled with placing those very few MISINTERPRETED passages onto the LOVE of God passages...like you say Gospel Commission Indonesia..don't know your name sorry, but you nailed it right at 9 mins!
This only seems to look at Romans 9:11-15, but why would Paul anticipate the question in verse 19? Something atheists always say, if it’s up to God alone how can he find fault? That does not seem to fit with the idea that Esau and Jacob are analogies for Jew and Gentiles. He doesn’t even mention Gentiles until verse 24. How do you draw that line?
And so what business does verse 22 have here as well? I feel it’s a bit irresponsible to stir the waters and not make it clear. This is an age old debate.
Why Do People Become Calvinists? Because they are still worldly. I think this about anyone who claims to be a disciple of a man or an organization that did not die for them. Those that are disciples of Christ and belong the Jesus should consider themselves as Christian only and not Calvin, Luther, Wesley, or Paul or Barnabas.
However my experiences were very different then what you laid out. When I was a child of 10 the Lord both saved and revealed himself to me in very miraculous ways. Ways that I don't tell people because I know they can not believe it. Because they were so far from anything anyone has even heard of before. So I have this to boost my faith and confidence in God. But at that time and not far away was my family; My brother, sister, mother and father. They saw nothing. The Lord gave them nothing. To this day they are still unbelievers. And now we are all old and dying of old age. He saved my life with grand miracles but for other young members of my family and friends he did not save. One died of Leukemia, some of pneumonia, some perished in fires, others succumbed to injuries, one died in battle, one got raped and murdered, some drowned, some where shot accidentally, others died in the womb. So I had a real dilemma in trying to figure out why the Lord would save me and not them. Who was I? The least of all of them. I thought that God wanted to save everybody and have everybody believe in him. So nothing about it made any sense to me. Not until the Lord taught me his will concerning election and predestination. And even afterwards it was not easy for me to accept and come to terms with.
Predetermination did originate with Calvin. He only spoke about what he read in the bible and created a controversy with those that do not believe the bible but instead follow the teachings of men and their traditions.
I think where Calvinism falls into error is they believe faith is a work. The Bible is very clear though that faith is not a work Ephesians 2:8-9. That's why they believe that you have to be regenerated by the Holy Spirit first before you can have faith, but I believe that it's your faith that saves you. You are saved through faith but not by works. The Bible is very clear that faith is not a work. James also made a distinction between faith and works. Faith is faith and works is works. You can have faith without works, but in the Book of James he says faith without works is dead referring to your actions not just your faith. Faith in itself though is not a work. Faith comes before your actions. According to a calvinist you are born again before you have faith. In my opinion this goes against what the Bible actually teaches.
Faith comes through hearing the word of God Romans10:17. The Holy Spirit is the one that convicts people's hearts through the hearing of his word. This is why it's important that we as Christians preach the word of God. If we don't do our part they won't hear it. As Christians we partner with the Holy Spirit. Faith does not come by being born again. That is not what this scripture verse is saying. It simply says that faith comes by hearing the word of God. God can soften and harden somebody's heart, but that has nothing to do with the Regeneration of the Holy Spirit. People also can harden and soften their own heart. In Exodus the Bible says that Pharaoh hardened his own heart and God also hardened his heart. So it can definitely be both. This is where super Calvinism falls into error. They take God's sovereignty to an extreme. It's your faith that actually allows the Holy Spirit to come in and change you, and Faith comes by hearing the word of God. That's how God reveals himself to you is through his word.
I’d advise you to do your research on reformed theology. There are fanatics in every denomination.
And why is then that not all men repent and turn from sin? Why can 2 ppl hear the gospel and one believe and the other reject? Does that have anything to do with God or is it all on the man? Wouldn’t that give one something to boast about, over the one who rejected? Just asking.
Yes, the difference is in the men. That is why men will be judged.
No they cannot boast because it is by faith & therefore of grace, not by works of the law which would lead to boasting. Faith gives the glory to God.
Romans 4:16 Therefore the promise comes through faith, so that it might be by grace, that the promise would be certain to all the descendants, not only to those who are of the law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all
Romans 4:20 He did not waver at the promise of God through unbelief, but was strong in faith, giving glory to God,
Boasting is eliminated because the act that you’re describing, having faith and repenting, is literally surrendering to God. To truly have faith you’re surrendering your god-hood, your worship of yourself, in order to worship God as your lord. Abject surrender is the opposite of boasting. Suggesting that surrender can lead to boastfulness proves lack of understanding of what true surrender really is.
@@TheRomans9Guy excellent point☝️
@@TheRomans9Guy I think surrendering to God is a very humanistic way to describe how a person is “given “ the gift of eternal life with Christ.
@@TheRomans9Guy I think what trying to say is God grants you faith and repentance and it’s not something you mustered up on your own and that’s why you can’t boast, because you don’t have anything that wasn’t given to you, you didn’t earn it and you surely didn’t deserve it and neither did I. Grace and peace.
In their context! Any text without context, is a pre-text
Well said.
Scripture interprets scripture.
If we willfully ignore (or are simply ignorant of) principles of sound Biblical interpretation, that will open the door to all sorts of error.
Calvinists completely agree.
Right, which is why non-Calvinists exist. Average iq, painfully average. Not enough thorough study to the point of knowing how to divide the Bible to the point of having it interpret itself. John Calvin didn’t make anything up, keep pretending. Also who cares, the Bible teaches it we don’t need to call it Calvinism or look into John Calvin.
Calvanist are not evil. True Christians are going to preach the Gospel. You've already mentioned Spurgeon. What more proof you want?.... It's true alot of us will never believe. With out the Holy Spirit, there is no chance or change in your heart.... I find some truths in both camp's.
@@justinhornsby6742 Calvin got his beliefs from the scripture which were inspired by the Holy Spirit.
Here is what Jesus said,
John 10
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
Jesus said he gave them eternal life, you can't have eternal life without it being eternal.
Jesus said the Father game them (sheep/bride) to him.
Jesus said the Father was greater than all (which includes yourself) and no man (including yourself) is able to pluck them out of the Fathers hand.
John 6
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Jesus is saying no person can come to him except the Father draws them meaning you did not make the decision to come to him God drew you, it could not have been all men because Jesus said he would raise him up at the last day, that would be universal salvation.
Clearly this guy has never actually read one of the great confession. I recommend starting with Westminster.
Regardless; I am still glad he is advancing the core of the gospel in Indonesia!
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. (John 3:18, ESV)
Let’s read the context of John 3.
John 3:5-8
[5] Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. [6] That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. [7] Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘👉You must be born again.’ [8] The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”👈
Most non-Calvinists who have become Calvinists were 'convinced' Calvinism is true by someone more clever at using their 'proof texts' than the non-Calvinist was at disputing them. Few Christians have ever heard the sermon on "what's wrong with Calvinism". This is usually because their preacher didn't know how to explain it, was afraid of touching a 'third rail', or didn't think it was even necessary.... (BIG MISTAKE).
Consequently, most non-Calvinist Christians are vulnerable and woefully unprepared to articulately provide a defense to the accusation against God that he does NOT love all his creation and/or that he has NOT "Graciously" made provision for ALL of mankind to be reconciled to himself by faith in Christ. Instead, they are easily out-argued by a Calvinist who can argue their 'plucked-proof-texts' by virtue of having already been convinced by some other Calvinist that God has actually created and condemned the vast majority of mankind, (made in his own image), to burn in Hell for doing precisely what he has decreed they would do, while he withholds the ability to do otherwise... for his own glory.
Calvinists have been defending the indefensible for hundreds of years. They have it down to a 'cha-cha dance'. They seem to learn it the same way, rinse & repeat. Most of their arguments employ misdirection, redefined words, and terms and the invention of dual, non-falsifiable meanings.
Is it more correct to say that egg yolks "are" white or is it OK to say egg yolks "is" white?
Calvinist arguments can go something like this, it's sort of like a fighter setting up a right hook with a left jab and a head fake.
Example;
Calvinist: "You believe God is sovereign, right?"(their definition of sovereignty excluded)...
Victim: "Right!"
Calvinist: "You believe man is totally depraved, right?"(their definition of depravity excluded)...
Victim: Right!
Calvinist: "You know man can't save himself, right?"(begging the question of how salvation occurs)...
Victim: Right!
Calvinist: "Why did you get saved and your friend didn't?"...
Victim: "I believed the Gospel and accepted the gift of salvation, and he didn't."
Calvinist: "Oh, so you saved yourself, aren't you special. So, you must think you're better than him. ....I thought we already covered that".. etc. etc. It goes on ad nauseam. The unsuspecting, unprepared victim really has no chance.
And the next thing you know John "Bob" Calvin's your uncle....... But yolks are still yellow, not white.😊
but you already know god gave you faith and drew you to himself only because he chose you from the beggining. so now we choose to come to him.
ephsians 1 vs4
@@jkvarley8443 Are you suggesting he chose only 'some' and 'passed over' others. Or that all men have faith, i.e., the ability to believe and respond positively to God from birth?
@@jkvarley8443 OK, I see where you're coming from. Tell me, when did you get 'in Christ'?
@Ben Jones I'm not here to engage in 'dueling prooftexts'. I'm familiar with the passages which Calvinists select to support the various positions within their doctrine. They are employed and/or misunderstood out of context in each instance. If you are authentically interested in the non-Calvinist meaning of them and willing to examine them in their Biblical context there are several excellent sites on UA-cam which make that information available in great detail.
I'll offer a couple examples but really have not desire to pursue it further.
Take another look, in Eph. 1 "According as he hath chosen us IN HIM before the foundation of the world. Not "to be" in Him. Where were you when you were chosen?... 'in Him'. Did you exist before the foundation of the world? No, but I know Christ did. When did you get "IN HIM,(Christ), wasn't it sometime after you were born"? Were you ever "out of" Him? Jesus came to save the lost... regarding consistent Calvinist logic were you,(or any of Calvin's "elect") ever truly lost? Or were you only unaware of your 'elected' status(as Calvinists define 'election') before becoming awakened to your good fortune?
In Calvinism, the mysterious 'elect' are said to be 'in Christ' before the foundation of the world, ... but born in condemned in sin?🤔?? Christ came to save the lost... but if the "elect" were already 'in Christ' how did God lose them??? And if he didn't... then how can they be among the 'lost' whom Christ came to save?🤔... You're 'in'... you're 'out'... then back 'in' again... It's too Hokey Pokey for me...
Rom.16:7 would also be a problem for the Calvinist's required 'timeline', as Paul writes; "Greet Andronicus and Junia, my countrymen and my fellow prisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were" in Christ" BEFORE me."
Scripture NEVER says anyone was chosen "to be" in Him, they are chosen because they have believed on and received Him and then sealed by the Holy Spirit AFTER they believed. Salvation is a gracious gift received through faith, and that (salvation) is the gracious 'gift' of God to mankind made possible by the willing sacrifice of Christ for the sins of the world(all of it) and it is available to anyone willing to believe it is.
As John 2:2 clearly says; "1 John 2:2 (KJV) : "And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."
The order of salvation is that one 'believes unto salvation. Believing always comes first... always. The erroneous concept that anyone is 'BORN UNABLE' to believe or respond positively to God is not established anywhere in scripture. That verse is Calvinism's 'missing link' it does not exist. Some will believe, some will not, but anyone can.... and that is Good News for everybody. Calvinism offers no Good News for anybody, the 'elect' don't need it... and those 'unelected' can't have it.
It is Calvinists who must continually 'redefine' simple terms and phrases which they are forever running into throughout scripture and which contradict their doctrine or invent totally new ones to deflect from the obvious meaning of clear passages harmonized in proper context with the whole of scripture. It seems to me, (and I'm certainly not alone), whenever scripture and Calvinism collide is it scripture which must yield to preserve the paradigm of Calvinist doctrine.
Interesting ive never been open to seeing that understanding of it
A kind suggestion to you and virtually all content creators: get organized on your point and content before rolling tape. Your presentation is a bit of a rant, I don't want to have to try and figure out what you're saying after 10 min in. This is an important subject for sure, just find it difficult to follow your thought process. Could you cover what is calvinism? Why you're covering this subject. Why it matters. Not everybody understands the issue, particularly those that are raised in a Calvinist upbringing. I think to many involved in Calvinism, there isn't another way to understand the scriptures than the way they've been taught. To question it is pure heresy.
How to avoid calvinism?
By not reading your bible
Try again deceived cultist.
I wonder how many calvinists in these comments made Calvinist children? I don’t think I have ever met a Calvinist who dosent have at least one “elect” child if not all their kids.. I mean what are the odds of that? Just elect people having elect children.
God's plan. Even then, there are Christians whose grown children are unbelievers and many of whom have not been chosen by God.
So you are saying that the same Christ who ordained the false prophets that Jude speaks of is the same Christ that loves them unconditionally and also purchased them with His Own Blood.
"People read the scriptures and they find certain passages of scripture, about 6 or 7 particular passages that they read and no matter what they can do to get around it that is clearly saying some of the main tenants of Calvinism."
Come on. You just said someone using only the bible finds many, many passages that would lead one to conclude by the bible alone the same things that others have concluded, that Reformed Theology or another way to say it Covenant Theology might just be right in its summary of biblical things.
I can't help but think your affirming what your trying to deny. 🤣 I'm honestly confused, you are one who adheres most to Covenant Theology or if not what theological school would you believe to be most accurate in its summary of God's Word? We all have to conclude something and find alignment as close as one can with other Christians.
How to avoid calvinism? Avoid Bible.
So Jacob actually IS Israel but in Roman’s 9 Esau is Israel? Huh? Got it!
You are in direct conflict with many valid, honored Christian historians, preachers and theologions. some of which are- RC Sproul, Augustine, John Gertsner, John MacArthur, Steve Nichols, Burt Parsons, Al Mohler, Steve Lawson, John Piper, Allan Parr, Sinclair Ferguson, Robett Godfrey amd countless others. I would think they all know more than you do. I used to be against Calvanism but, as my walk with The Lord Grew, that changed. Time for you to study further.
The Bible says the road is narrow and FEW find it. End of story. Pretty evident by some of the comments
I doubt that anyone commenting here is not saved, whether Calvinist, Arminian, or something else.
Lost people don't hang out in comment sections devoted to deep theological issues and debate and speak from a saved perspective. Those who are lost and do so are at enmity with God and express disbelief in the Bible, or they don't comment at all, as they generally want nothing to do with the gospel, and those who do comment do so to deride the gospel.
There are calvinist and arminianist that make it to heaven. If God got you he got you!!!
Towards the end you spoke too fast and increased the volume of your voice. Verbal bombardment like this overloads the listener and tends to batter them into submission. This is one of the ways cult leaders and other manipulative fast/loud talkers use to circumvent the listeners ability to critically assess what the speaker says before they make the next statement and the next. And thereby the listener is more likely to just accept what is said at at least a subconscious level without properly appraisal and understanding - psychologist call this momentum and is related to priming the mind to accept the idea, and the Unification Church cult call this the yes-yes principle when one yes makes subsequent yeses more likely. You should never ever do this ever ever again.
What does that mean
Who mean why do people believe the
doctrines of Grace
EPHESIANS 2:1-4 8-9
EPHESIANS 4:1
There are more but why show you
btw there is no such thing as Calvinism
It's scripture that interprets Scripture
GOD never says oops
He knows saved and lost
He knew before the foundation of the
world No you still witness
work base theology
How does that save how much work?
Rick, are you aware of “whosoever will?” Rick, do better , much better, love necessitates choice.
Do you believe God is all knowing?
Yes I do. Gbu
@@KingdomTheologyTV then we have to wrestle with the fact that God knows someone is going to reject Him live a life of sin, go to hell and God either doesn’t do anything to stop it or all Three, Father, Son and Holy Spirit exhaust all efforts in saving the sinner and still come up short, because man has the final word. God knows they are going to hell and he creates them anyway.
@@TheRealTrumanShow Or the third option, they did exactly as they desired to do, and exactly as they were created to do.
Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? 22 What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory-
Do you believe God is love ?
Can God reject a man’s plea for salvation?
He can I guess, but since He desires allen to be saved He would not, unless He see the man is not willing to meet the conditions of salvation that He has decreed by His own sovereignty. Gbu
No one please for salvation unless he’s regenerate
These things are written so that you may believe and by believing have life in His name
What happen with Esau when he could not find repentance? Like aren’t we all able to repent whenever we get good and ready too? Like maybe I don’t want to repent today but next month I might feel like repenting.
No...John 3:16 has zero to do with ability nor disability and is not dealing with election.
It simple means, those who are the believers or the ones who believe posses everlasting life.
Its pas pistuo...the believing ones. The greek text does not even say "whosoever".
This video is a glaring example of a total misunderstanding of Biblical Calvinism.
There is a hair’s breadth between Arminianism and “open theism”.
Be careful.
This guy tries to convince the listener that Calvinism is based on a couple of verses that then taints all the Bible.
What a silly premise.
As usual, his kind goes right to John 3:16 to try and make his point. How simple minded.
Is this an attempt to attack Calvinism by an unknowable teacher or is this an attempt by a knowledgeable teacher to try and deceive young Christians who he's afraid will read their Bible and come to the truth?
Not sure, but, either way he's just wrong.
To not be a Calvinist means you rely on yourself for salvation to some degree, instead of replying fully on God.
B S!!!
@@truthseeker5698 care to have a dialogue and change my mind? Cause I have some questions for you and I’m open to change
@@ShepherdMinistry no more dialogue from me now.. you’ve been witnessed to. Read MMLJA , focus on Jesus, and be sure He knows you .🙏🏻
@@truthseeker5698 You come to comment “B S” and don’t want dialogue and that is witnessing to you? If you genuinely cared for me and were confident in your belief wouldn’t you have dialogue to correct me of me potential error?
@@ShepherdMinistry it’s simply your choice. You have many resources literally at your fingertips. Your claim /assertion in original comment is absolutely B S. Get to know Jesus and just be sure He knows you .
I would say that the non reformed perspective brings its own philosophical presuppositions to the Bible.
Please preach the gospel and stop discrediting others. Paul says to Timothy Preach the Word. Especially Jesus doctrine in the gospel of John.
Are you discrediting me? Wouldn't it just be better for you to preach the gospel instead of pointing out my error in the comments section? Especially when the error you point out is that I am pointing out the errors of others instead of just preaching the Gospel.
Seems an ironic criticism to make when it should apply to you as much as to me.
Gbu
Narcissism and a hunger for gnostic believes...