Earth Alliance vs Minbari Federation | 11 years after Earth-Minbari war?
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- Опубліковано 24 лип 2019
- Could the Earth Alliance win a war against the Minbari, 11 years after the Earth-Minbari war? Are the new ships made by the Earth Alliance powerful enough? Could the Omega Class Destroyer defeat a Sharlin Class War-cruiser? Let's find out in this video.
Artwork by Holger Barton
Awesome video!!! Keep up the good work!!!
I think Delenn said it best. You all know what I'm talking about.
Those Captains did not want to be the idiots who started another Minbari war. They were also two Omegas and a few crappy Hyperions against multiple Sharlins and a Whitestar. Only an Earth Alliance President pulls the trigger on a second Minbari war.
1. As for the Minbari jammers. The first episode, they had turned the jammers off to insure the
Earth forces could destroy them. This was a suicide attack. The Minbari crew wanted to die
in battle so tbey could die with honor. As for the White Star, They could track the gas displacement
caused by the ship. We can do the same with stealth aircraft, if you know what to look for.
2. The Minbari had countless ships left over from the last shadow war. These ships were constantly
being updated but held in reserve.
3. Your right about the EF captains.
1. In a later episode we see Omegas upgraded with shadow tech weapons and armor. They could easily lock on and managed to destroy several white stars while outnumbered. Its unclear if their tracking systems were further updated but we know that at this point the EA has the tech to lock on.
2. Weird assumption. It is stated multiple times throughout the series that many high ranking Minbari considered the shadows as a non threat trying to reduce scouting and military assets. Not to mention that the shadow war probably lost them a great majority of their ships since they were on the brink of defeat before Babylon 4 was time machined.
3. Its hard to believe that a military defeating a technologically far superior enemy with the Dilgar who are also known to be good strategists and tacticians would have many incompetent officers or insufficient training. Being great at strategy and tactics is literally the only way to win against the Dilgar for the EA.
@@TheDude50447 We won the war with the Dilgar because they had no real plans on what to do if Earth entered the war. When we did join, we had the element of surprise at first. Then as we progressed through the Leauge, liberating worlds, their forces joined them and the fleet got bigger as their's got smaller.
you forge there is battle between the fleet Omega X class and White Star fleet.
ship from 1000 year ago, like upgrading pirate ships from the 17th to modern ship?
Earth still would not win. However they would make the Minbari pay for each victory. The overall cost would prevent a war. That is good enough
Disagree completely. The advances made in 11 years still couldn't even begin to cover over a 1000 years of technology. it would be the same result.
I disagree, the Mimbra, especially seen in the war aganist the earth are not interest in such things and when it cost more, that make them even more angry!
@@HorusHeresy1982 it would not be the same result. In the first war, the EA’s weapons worked fine, but they couldn’t see their targets.
The newer EA ships can target and hit white star class ships. These ships are technologically superior to standard Minbari ships.
EA still couldn’t win but it would wreak massive devastation on the Minbari fleet, probably to a degree they could t recover from.
Neither side wants to tangle with the other at this juncture.
@@HorusHeresy1982 it's not just 11 years of pure research. It is also 11 years of reverse engineering technology used by the other interstellar powers, like the Centauri that are in such a place from the start of the show (still inferior technology but enough of a deterrent).
While the Earth Alliance technology had advanced in those 11 years, so did the Minbari technology also advance. The Minbari cruiser you talked about was trying to restart the war and was allowing Babylon 5's starfuries to lock on them hoping they would fire first and thus the Earth Alliance could be blamed for restarting the war.
Thw biggest advances for Earth come from studying and reverse engineering tech from more advanced races. Thats why theyre progressing so fast.
The thing is, Sheridan asked what kind of targeting system they had and came to the conclusion that they shouldn't be able to lock on only after learning it was an old one. This implies that he knows of new systems capable of locking onto Minbari ships
This cruiser was also 11+ years out of date since they couldn’t go home, their tech wouldn’t have ever been updated. Minbari now could have remade their stealth tech to keep ahead of earths targeting computers.
This is the Minbari we are talking about. The more advanced a technology is the harder it is to advance further
Minbari tech did not advance much in those 11 years. Except for the white star. And neutron lasers. But the earth alliance did get shadow tech during the shadow war.
Minbari did not have shadow tech.
EA probably couldn’t win another war, but it would not be a slaughter. The Minbari fleet would suffer hellish losses because the EA fleet is large, and their weapons are sufficient to destroy Minbari ships. Their weakness is in tracking their targets.
In the E-M war, EA ships couldn’t even see their targets. The fact that afterwards EA ships could track and engage white star class ships, which are technologically *superior* to standard Minbari ships, tells the story there. Earth force went from being unable to even target Minbari ships to being able to target ships superior to standard Minbari ships.
I think the EA does not have a large enough fleet to win though, and they are still at a disadvantage technology wise. The Minbari would still win, but it would be a bloodbath for them, one that they probably could not recover from, and they would ultimately fall to another enemy because of the losses. Their culture and society are very stagnant and it is unlikely they would be able to quickly adapt to such a radical change in their fortunes.
Strategically, this creates a mutually assured destruction situation between the Minbari and the EA. Which is why neither will countenance another conflict.
I completely agree :)
Mimbari have several physiological/psychological weaknesses that can be exploited in a war.
For instance caste system;whilst it stabillises Mimbari society to a degree it is their greatest weakness.
Secondly if Mimbari are interrupted in their sleep cycle just before their sweating starts it can greatly reduce their combat effficiency.
Thirdly Mimbari are arguably more agressive although it is bit more subtle than Human agression therefore in right circumstances they can be herded away from their fleet.
Finally they can be quiet arrogant, so whilst tactically they have an advantage but hit & run tactics can be quiet devestating to their morale.
I think EA would make the Minbari bleed a bit more, but still Minbari would reached Earth and this time they won't stop until mankind is destroyed.
Awesome I love it! Excellent analysis my friend 😎👍
Wow you really know what you are doing here please keep the videos coming and think you so very much for making them.
The orbital defenses around earth towards the end of the civil war would really bite into the mimbari ships
Oh they did. Double check the battle with earth after sheriden called delen for reinforcements. It is a very short scene, but you do see a sharlin get ripped up pretty good with missiles.
@@CRAZYUNCLE117
At what point? I can see one Nial-class fighter getting destroyed
@@kimnice I am someone that will admit when I messed up. Just re-watched the battle and the cut scenes flipped by so fast I got confused. The platforms only targeted human ships it seems. Though it is not out of the realm of possibility's that, if targeted, a sharlin might take one or two to the face.
Just because the Minbari were over a 1000 years ahead evolution speaking, it doesn't mean that during those 1000 years they continued to advance bear in mind the previous Shadow War had just culled most advanced races except the Minbari and Vorlons. This leaves less competitors and thus less urgency to advance weapons and ships when you're the most advanced of the younger races. There's also a limit to how far certain technologies can advance so the Minbari might have hit the Apex of weapon, Armour and propulsion design, this is evident by them co-designing the Whitestar with Vorlon biohull armour during the recent Shadow war.
The shadows were a million years ahead - at least - and Earth got access to this technology. When a white stars fleet engage a fleet with the newest Earth ship incorporated with this new technology, they were not even en par with them. Only the small numbers of this ships let them win.
ua-cam.com/video/wk3ro-QEiBg/v-deo.html
A single cruiser takes down several white star ships before it is destroyed after tacking a massiv series of hits. If the Earth ships had been larger in numbers, they would have won. 11 years might be not enough, but time is favoring Earth.
I agree, the Earth Alliance would still lose. But I don't think they have less ships 11 years later. In fact I think they have more, at least they have more relevant ships at that point. They all but phased out the Hyperion class , the Nova class didn't even exist at this point along with the Olympus Class. They basically focused on building the Omega Class as far as capital vessels go and I think they had far more of them 11 years later then they ever had of any of the other classes during the war.
Also they had started producing the Thunderbolt Starfury's at this time, I have no proof but personally I think while they aren't the most advanced fighter in the series they are the best fighter. At the very least they're the best multirole fighter shown, either way they are better than the Minbari Nial fighter once the stealth systems have been neutralized.
Basically I 'm saying that although earth would not come out on top, it would be a real war this time around, not a slaughter. I wish we could have seen what the Warlock Class could do, that may have been a better matchup for the Sharlin Class. Anyway great video, (thumbs up) keep them coming.
Sheridan, the original starkiller base!
Both the Nova and Hyperion were still very much active. We see multiple Hyperions when Clark orders an attack on b5. When the Alexander is being attacked after defecting, a Hyperion is seen hunting them down. When they discover the great machine on epsilon III, a Hyperion class is sent to pay claim/defend it. We see Hyperions and I think novas during their push to earth during the ea civil war. When b5 gets their defense grid upgraded and general Franklin comes aboard, he arrives in a Nova class ship. There were also Olympus class ships during the drakh attack on Earth. They may not be producing them, but they still make up a significant portion of the fleet.
Thunderbolts were definitely amazing fighters and a huge improvement, but I'm not sure if they would be better fighters than a Nial. Stealth is probably less of a problem, (We've seen Starfury's firing on Whitestars and even Vorlon fighters) but the Nials do have neutron cannons and direct-hit capability. I do agree that Thunderbolts are the best multirole fighters.
While the warlock are less manouverable then the sharlins . It packs more punch and more durable armor
It would take the several years to return to the shipbuilding capacity pre-war. 20,000 ships lost at the battle of the line let alone all those lost across three years of conflict.
It's always much easier to catch up to 90% of what your most advanced enemy is than to get to the 100% edge of technology yourself.
To my fellow b5 fans, if you buy home world remastered (£8.67) you can download a b5 mod that will allow you to play as the earth alliance vs the Minbari. The mod is called severed dreams and I highly recommend. For the record, this isn’t a sales pitch for home world, I hold no shares in the company nor will I make any money from anyone downloading the game or the mod. Just wanted my fellow b5 fans to enjoy the fun
I'm in agreement. The earth alliance would still lose but when they first fought they held back for two years.
I expect with the tech they had and the ships they had the conflict would've been even bloodier and longer even if the final outcome was inevitable
Agreed if they had the prewar numbers and the economic/industrial capacity they would of stood a chance but thenend would of been the same dozens of mimbari fleets dropping out of FTL overwhelming Human forces the only thing whqt would of been different afterwards is the shipyards around saturn and the belt would of been larger and more flushed out capable of building dozens of ships at a time instead of only a couple i think i read in one of the books that the Saturn yards could build up to 8 nova dreganoughts at a time the belt yards could build up to 5 at a time (or a relative number of smaller escort ships )
You make a good point. The EA was holding back because the Minbari completely stunned the EA.
In a second war, the EA would go all out from day one, knowing what had happened last time. Their entire economy would go into hyperdrive in an attempt to survive.
I still don’t think the EA could destroy the Minbari, but they could do enough damage to force the Minbari to the table for peace
I do think they would win but have put a hell of fight. Unlike last last time it was a slaughter.
It seems doubtful that EA sensors could track Minbari ships at the time of B5. Sheridan specifically refers in his opening episode to something being "not right" when he realises that they are able to track the Minbari cruiser and fighters. This indicates that with current EA technology, he would not be able to do so if the stealth systems were turned on. The episode of firing on the white star near/in Jupiter doesn't really support the theory that they could lock on to Minbari ships, as from memory they didn't score a direct hit, and seemed to be targeting approximately. There are other issues including the range of the weapons of the minbari (much greater), speed and also accuracy of their jump engines when re-entering normal space. Overall, up until the point where EA rolls out the Warlock class destroyers, the conflict would still be very one sided.
Indeed.
In the Episode where they upgun B5 the General hints that the new systems can lock Otto Boney McBoneheads toys
Don't forget what was said in the series, Earth force was obsessed with finding new tech, They must of sent everything they could get out in space to find it.
Don't forget the destroyers upgraded with shadow tech. If it wasn't for plot armor I doubt the whitestars would have survived that fight.
@@CRAZYUNCLE117 I'm pretty sure with Earth Force obsession, They agreed with the offer for the shadow tech and Many made their a alliance with the Shadows then.
@@dragdragon23 Without solid proof of that I cannot agree. Though, just like the one they found on mars, it is possible they just located another berried vessel.
Earth could finally fight back in a meaningful capacity, but remembering how the Sharlins just ate through NOVA hulls with impunity and at incredible range and even hurting shadow ships at close range you just know they are still about 1000 years ahead. In "in the Beginning" there is even a scnene where they cut down OMEGA hulls with equal impunity. Also, EA beam technoligy is based on Narn leftovers and only "supersize everything" for orbital defense or a warlock with fixed forward beams is the only thing to make their firepower come relevant to Minbari levels. The Minbari do the same damage but with incredible beam sustain, fast reload, ridiculous range and firing those things of at ridiculous angles. A full on sharlin rampage is still going to lay waste to any other non first ones navy.
Reading these comments I think some people believe the minbari technology didn't advance doing those 11 years
@@epyon1983I believe BoneyMcBonehead has rested on it's Laurels as the "greatest blabla" during that time. The species is the space elfs and just like elfs not the smartest
Important bit of info: How big is the Minbari fleet? Smaller? Bigger? If smaller is it so much smaller that the EA could attack in so many places at once that the Minbari couldn't protect them all? Lead them on a wild goose chase as (with Benny Hill music being broadcast as a jamming signal) while other ships strike strategic targets. Another thing, how much territory do they control? How many worlds and orbital installations do they need to protect? If the reverse is the case and they have the bigger fleet and less to protect we are boned....and I'm not talking about their head crest things.
Well, during the shadow war the minbari lost a lot of ships as the sharlins made up a major portion of the allies fleet. As the most advanced ship of the younger races, they were probably the primary targets and threats for the vorlons and shadows.
It's also important to note that each caste apparently controls it's own ships. So while the warrior caste may be more than willing for round 2, the religious and maybe worker caste probably aren't. When she broke the council, delen said that between those two castes, they control 2/3 of their forces.
So that's another thing to consider, especially since delen really came to respect humanity, despite their flaws. At the very least I could see her keeping the religious caste out. Which means at a minimum they'll be down 1/3 of their ships.
The Minbari fleet is massive if it's all of them (as in all the castes combined). Far larger than anything the EA has ever had.
@@Bitchslapper316 Also after the war with the shadows (Earth was kept more or less out of it) and the full grown civil war?
@@bluerisk Yes, even after that. Remember the warrior caste controlled the vast majority of the Minbari ships and they didn't get involved in the shadow war at all.
I enjoyed this video but there are a number of points I would like to raise.
1) Even during the 1st Earth/Minbari war, the weapons used by EA ships were more than capable of causing heavy damage to Minbari warships, as shown during the first contact incident between the 2 races when a misunderstanding lead to EA ships firing on the Minbari ship carrying their leader and causing significant damage. At the time, the EA was using weapons technology based on Centari designs that was purchased in secret from the Narns. The issue was never about power, it was the inability to target Minbari ships that was the deciding factor in most battles. As you have shown in this video, newer EA ships like the Omega class destroyer are more than capable of locking on to and targeting even advanced designs such as the Whitestar. This was demonstrated again a number of times during the Earth civil war when EA ships were able to lock on to and destroy Whitestar class vessels. It’s likely that these improved targeting systems would also have been retrofitted on to many older Nova and Hyperion class vessels as well.
2) I disagree with your assessment of the capabilities of EA officers. It’s likely that all new ship captains that have joined the fleet since the war would have been extensively trained in how to combat the Minbari and would likely be far MORE effective than ship captains during the war would have been as they had to learn how to fight the Minbari on the fly. The incident you use as evidence for your point on this matter is in my opinion misinterpreted. When Delen and the Minbari arrived, they brought a total of 4 warships on to the field of battle, this in addition to the EAS Alexander that was still in the fight, AND the station itself which was still capable of fighting. This combined force significantly outnumbered the EA loyalist forces, which in my opinion is the major reason that they withdrew from battle. Tactically speaking, there is no benefit to be gained from engaging in combat with a numerically superior force unless you are 100% confident that you are qualitatively superior enough to ensure victory, which obviously wasn’t the case here.
3) it’s worth noting that by 11 years after the war, the Thunderbolt Starfury was starting to enter widespread service. Even during the war, the Minbari were impressed by the older Starfury, which despite being technologically inferior in almost every way, still put up a tremendous showing against the Minbari Nial fighter, with a kill/loss ratio that whilst still heavily favouring the Minbari fighter, was far closer than any of the other younger races could have achieved. The Thunderbolt is a significant leap forward over the Aurora, being faster, just as agile and boasting much more advanced targeting systems and dramatically more powerful weapons. In later episodes of the show, the Thunderbolt was shown to be more than a match for any of the fighters employed by the younger races, and was even shown to capable of going toe to toe with Vorlon and Shadow fighters during the battle of Corriana 6. Fielding Thunderbots would make a huge difference for the EA in a 2nd war with the Minbari.
Having said all that, do I think that the EA of 11 years later could win a war against the Minbari? No. What they could do however is fight on a much more even playing field than in the first war. With the issue of targeting being solved, the EAs new warships would be able to much more effectively combat the Minbari, and the innovative combat tactics of the EA would likely result in numerous actual victories in individual battles. I believe that the war would become one of attrition, and that in the end both sides would agree to a ceasefire because losses on both sides would be too high.
Now, a post ISA Earth Alliance, with the Warlock Class destroyer as the primary warship in the fleet, and the the Thunderbolt having completely replaced the Aurora in frontline units? That would be a different story again in my opinion as the Warlock was designed with one thing in mind……kill Sharlins.
1. During the first contact EA had a whole fleet gangbanging a single cruiser that was surprised. They managed to severely damage it, but it remained operational and still could fight after the battle was over. At least one Hyperion-class cruiser was also shown to get severe damage from the first shot that the Minbari cruiser made. Like the Borg in Star Trek: First Contact..if Minbari had two cruisers there it would have been a bloodbath
Last time i watched the show: 0 Whitestars destroyed directly by Omega-destroyers weapons. One was damaged badly when receiving two hits from Omega's main guns resulting it to collide with the said Omega. Destroying both ships. Even that "victory" was due to stupid tactic of that Whitestar: Flying straight forward towards the main guns.. instead of approaching from sides where the Omega's guns are just fighter interceptors. Advanced Omegas
could do the damage, but they were also destroyed
3. For every Minbari-fighter destroyed Earth Alliance lost 11 fighters. While with Thunderbolt that kill/loss ratio would get better..EA would run out of pilots fast.
Warlock as the main ship of the fleet post ISA? Would like to hear more about that. During the battle in "The Lost Tales" Omega was still the main ship even though there were few Warlocks there getting owned by Centauri ships. Warlock is slow and clumsy. If Minbari has access to Whitestar-ships, then Warlocks aren't that big of a problem.
Now IF EA civil war would have happened later we would have had Warlock-ships with all Shadow-technology upgrades from better secondary weapons to semiorganic armor. Those would have been beasts.
@@kimnice Warlocks are not slow, but rather faster than Omegas. They use Gravimetric engine technology. Also, these destroyers are more heavily armored. As for weapons - GOD particle beam cannons alone are worth something! And also rail guns, pulse and plasma cannons and a bunch of rocket launchers. Together with Thunderbolts, they would have given them the heat.
Description from wiki:
The weapons systems aboard the Warlock feature a wide variety of offensive and defensive emplacements that include standard plasma cannons, railguns, and missiles. Perhaps the most notable armament is a pair of particle beam cannons originally designed for use on the Aegis orbital defense platforms that formed Earth's planetary defense grid. Prior to the development of the Warlock, the power requirements of these weapons were so high that only dedicated stationary platforms could accommodate them, and then only one unit per platform. Installing the cannons aboard the Warlock enabled a ship of the class to destroy multiple Drakh vessels with one shot each at the start of the Drakh War, and another to destroy a Centauri Vorchan-class with a single shot in a possible future battle. The ability to use such powerful weapons allows the Warlock to take on ships from advanced races like Minbari with ease.
Warlock ships are also armed with weapons found on older classes of Earthforce ships, including nine heavy phased plasma cannon turrets of a similar type as was used aboard the older Nova-class dreadnoughts, four 40mm pulse cannons similar to those mounted on the Omega-class destroyer, and twelve to sixteen short-range phased plasma turrets of the same type installed on the older Olympus-class corvette.
In the episode that you mentioned about the star fury locking on Sheridan was surprised. The Mimbari let the selves be detected suggesting their technology was not yet advanced.
Agreed. The other officers have never fought Minbari most of them weren’t in the Minbari War. Only Sheridan. They might have bought into the porpoganda.
I love that the Minbari still use the same War cruiser after 11 years while the Earth renew their fleet continuously
Also Minbari have some vorlon tech now so if they retool their fleets to the White Star Standard, that’s a new war. Also Warlocks have Minbari tech as well. So war in any case is unlikely anyway.
that was an epic episode i think i heard the bricks falling out the ship when it turned Delan was like we gonna blow all of you up or you gonna leave lol
Even though Omega-destroyers were much more capable than Novas or Hyperions..it would still be a bloodbath. Think it this way: During the war humans had World War 1 era ships and 11 years later they had World War 2 era ships. Impressive improvement. Problem is that Minbari fleet is like modern US carrier strike group. They would still annihilate every human ship fast.
Though if Earth civil war had been postponed by few years it would have gotten interesting: Imagine fleets of Advanced Omega destroyers escorting Warlock-ships that have all intended Shadow-technology implemented..
Considering the performance of the Whitestars against everything Clark’s EA threw at them in the Earth Civil War (and keeping in mind that the Whitestars always fought with disadvantageous rules of engagement like always letting the other side fire the first shot and always trying to minimize casualties on the other side), I think the Minbari would have won any second EM War quite easily, actually.
They wouldn’t be nigh invulnerable and will sustain losses of significance this time, but overall it will still be a curbstomp.
Because even though the Whitestars had more advanced Vorlon technology in them, I recall JMS or another canon source at the time stating that because they were much smaller, they still had less firepower than a Sharlin, and wouldn’t beat one, one on one.
And while we do not know if the Minbari had yet gotten around to upgrading their regular fleet with the same Vorlon tech they used in the Whitestars, we do know the Minbari were the ones who actually built the Whitestars, and after introducing the first one the built the whole rest of that fleet in just a couple months. So even if they hadn’t upgraded their regular fleet, they could do so easily and very quickly (or just build Whitestars) if ever they felt they had need to.
The Warlock is probably the only ship EA has that can seriously threaten a Sharlin, and even then probably only with a numerical advantage, and I somehow doubt that EA has the basic manufacturing technology needed to churn those out at a rate that can match the manufacturing capability the Minbari demonstrated with the Whitestars.
I believe the idea the EA was catching up forgets the White Star class’s arrival. The Vorlons were on good terms with the Minbari and so the Minbari were in position to add that tech to their fleet.
Even if they didn’t, the EA would need to heavily outnumber the Minbari to win.
I do think that at the ISA founding earth could put up a really good fight. Probably enough to prevent the Minbari from complete victory as losses would be too great
The only chance in hell that the EA could either win against or stalemate the Minbari is if they had hundreds of warlock class destroyers and hundreds of those shadow enhanced earth cruisers that Clarke used late in the series.
Agreed. The Warlock class destroyers could one-shot almost any enemy warship (Just like a Sharlin could with their spinal bow cannon) but they were more costly to build and operate than for example Omega's.
The EA still wasn't strong enough to fight the Minbari for two reason:
1. They didn't have enough Omegas to counteract the Sharlins tech advantage.
2. They didn't have an advanced enough ship to replace the Hyperion class. Which would of served as extra fire power and a screen from minbari fighters.
11 years later? No.
20-30 years later with the Warlock in full series production? Maybe.
Even as badass as the Warlock is it's not a 1v1 match for a Sharlin. And the Minbari have a LOT of Sharlins..
There is also the suggestion that the EA was ravenous for new technology from aliens. IPX was an exploratory organization whose sole purpose was to go out and find alien tech and bring it back for study. We know that the Narns were selling secondhand Centauri weapons to the EA during the and it is entirely possible that some Mimbari tech was also reverse engineered. My view is that the EA was rapidly increasing its firepower and the Omega class represented a paradigm shift in Earth weapons tech, akin the the real world historical examples of the Dreadnought, the Aircraft carrier and the Jet engine. We see this in that it has powerful beam weapons. However, Mimbari cruisers still likely be dominant.
I'm going by the fact that the statement by the Earth representative was made in season two and whilst I agree that in this final version of b5 the minbari should win. Although let's not forget that had Sinclair (Not Sheridan) remained commander then there would (If JMS kept to his original b5 concept) have been a second Earth/Minbari (Started when the warrior cast destroy B5) in-which Earth ultimately would have won. Let's also not forget that it isn't until In the beginning (Which came after season four btw) that we really see how powerful the Minbari ships were in comparison to the Earth ships (Indeed after further watching it's a miracle Earth lasted three days- let alone three years- maybe they lasted that long using gorilla tactics!!)
Going by the original concept (Earth wins second Minbari War) it wouldn't have taken too much for JMS to have tweaked that Earth and the Minbari were not too far apart technologically (He could even have simply written in that not being able to lock their weapons on minbari ships was the reason the minbari won the first conflict and getting over this problem swung the war to earth's favour.)
Lastly, let's not forget Earth did incorporate Shadow technology and the minbari cast had broken apart by season three, meaning that if there was a war then the warrior cast (As originally intended) would carry out the war. This could also mean that earth would have had assistance/advice/support from the minbari religious/worker class as to how to take out the minbari ships (Although you have the problem of Minbari not killing Minbari of course.)
Eh, they found ways around that rule during the civil war. The warrior caste was bombing religious cities. People were dying, but the warriors then just claim that they should’ve gotten out when they could. As it was, they’re collateral damage. Then they’d release prisoners... into the desert or a swamp.
Well, in the civil war (they didn't just fall apart) they killed each other or let members of the other castes starve and freeze to death.
Just locking on would not have swung it for Earth. Earth gained maybe 100 years by acquiring Centari and Narn weapons tech, but the Minbari are over 1000 years ahead of Earth.
Remember what Londo said "Even at the height of our expansion we dare not oppose the Minbari"
The modernized Earthforce ships like the Omega class were designed to DIE to take out Minbari warcruisers. Upgraded bricks of armor and heavy weapons, they're designed to fly right down a Sharlin's throat, inflict fatal damage, with the final ramming attack taking out the Sharlin. And I DO think Earthorce had more Omegas and upgraded Novas than the Minbari had Sharlins and Tinashis by eleven years post-war. If there were a second war of genocide, the human species glasses and biobombs the Minbari into extinction.
Yes and no. In the short term, ships like the Omega were designed, from the outset, to stand an acceptable chance of fighting against a Sharlin. Point blank, only reason. The Omegas were not the weapon that EF wanted, but it would do until the one that wanted was ready (the Warlock). In the long run, I dont think so. Either way, it would not end well, for anyone. The Minbari elicit the same reaction among the younger races that the Vorlon do with, oddly, the Minbari. EF would stand a better chance in the war with the newer tech and ships like the Omegas and the Thunderbolts. But, cant say if the ultimate outcome would have been the same (Battle of the Line), or something different. But, ultimately, the Minbari probably would still have surrendered like they did, and likely the same reason.
Most likely Minbari still win in a dominant fashion but it would not be the one-sided slaughter it was before. There would just be more Minbari dead than before but the Earth Alliance would still be defeated.
In the episode against the Trigate Sheriden says "The same kind we were using during the war, we shouldn't be able to track them at all" which implies to me that the standard trackers aren't able to lock on and it's only the cutting edge, brand new destroyers fitted with the new tech.
"Can't lock weapons" is so stupid. All Minbari ships are perfectly visible to the mark 1 eyeball and can be targetted with a basic gun sight. Earth Alliance would have a problem if they primarily relied on missiles and torpedos, but they use energy weapons that could be aimed by hand (and perhaps are on the Star Fury). The Nial would be hard to hit, because it is fast and small, but a Sharlin is one of the biggest, slowest ships in the entire show. If Earth Alliance has the range to hit it, it's getting hit.
Season 2 episode 1; the minbari didn’t have their jamming technology on, they wanted to be killed to regain their honour. Sheridan mentions that they still don’t have the tech to track minbari ships. The Agamemnon wasn’t retrofitted with new tracking technology until the fourth series when Sheridan’s former xo was tasked with tracking him down. Even then, considering the fact that the minbari lost far fewer ships in the war, I doubt the EA would be able to win a full military engagement, certainly not a protracted war, without the role of warlock class. Even then, given that by the time series three had started, the minbari had built the white star with vorlon tech. A cruiser 1/5 the size of an omega could outmanoeuvre and outgun two or possibly three of such ships. It would have to be a war of retribution/vengeance , started by humans, given that valin was originally commander Sinclair and thus the first war ended due to the triluminary activating at the battle of the line and confirming the secret minbari belief that minbari souls were being born into human body’s. they don’t kill there own so, maybe they would simply not fight. Though the warrior class will probably be up for a fight
They wouldn't win, but the battles wouldn't be onesided massacres. A few Warlock destroyers were also already in operation by this point, and their heavy particle beam cannons could one shot Centauri destroyers so I assume they'd be able to heavily damage Minbari ships as well. Even in the earth Minbari war, the problem the EA faced was largely being unable to lock on to Minbari ships, eventho their weapons were strong enough to damage Minbari ships, they usually couldn't even fire soon enough to really damage them.
They would definitely fair better than the previous war that's for sure...but yes in the end they would loose again
I always thought that the Starfury thunderbolt could defiantly take on the NIAL CLASS HEAVY FIGHTER. Hell the thunderbolt doesn't even need to lock on to the enemy ships. Just point your make shift crosshairs at your target and let those multiple pulse cannons rip!
Using the encounter at the end of the battle of Babylon 5 is a horrible example to say they were afraid. The earth forces had 3 ships, only two of which were omegas, the third was a Hyperion class which is much less advanced.
The minbari brought 3 sharlins and a white star, then we have the defense grid and fighters from the station itself and the fact that the Alexander (an omega on b5's side) was also present. Retreating in that situation doesn't prove anything except that they were smart enough to know they were drastically outnumbered and outgunned. Only an idiot would have stayed to fight against that.
Do I think the ea would win outright, no probably not. They'd likely need a massive tactical blunder by the minbari for that. I do think they could fight them to a stand still though. Earth would probably lose their outermost colonies because the minbari still have better jump engines and more manuverable ships. But as earth got pushed back, their more concentrated defenses would turn a minbari offensive into a meat grinder. They could drag it out to the point where the casualties are no longer worth it for the minbari. It would probably be a bloodbath on both sides with earth giving some ground early but holding the line after that.
Earth may be able to fight the Mimbari 5 years after the series ended when Earth had a number of warlocks ready for action. Anything before is unlikely why:
1. B5 was 2 years old when the Trigati came by meaning either Earth didnt have the new system at the time or it wasnt widely available yet. Considering B5s role Earth would showcase its best tech.
The Agamemnon may have just finished refit when they encountered the white Star and thats why it was in system. B5 was also refitted around that time when General Franklin and the Gropos came used B5 as a staging ground for a military campaign.
2. Of course the Earth alliance ships withdrew when Delenn told them to back off. The EA ships arrive with 2 dreadnaughts and a few escorts
Sheridan had B5 and a dreadnaught damaged yes but Delenn brought 4 warcruisers and the white Star.
The EA task force was sent to secure B5. Attacking the Mimbari might restart the earth Mimbari war. The task force wasnt ordered or equiped to do that. It wasnt a lack of courage.
3. EA just fought a civil war you need to rebuild.
The Mimbari had new tech though so it is still likely ify
Being a person who played a lot of B5 wars. Yes, numbers will always over whelm high tech. Ramming is very effective.
And missle ships are very effective against minbari ships of any kind.
Minbari ships don't use missiles at all.
I always thought you could open an atmospheric jump point over Minbar and send one of J'Kar's huge nuclear bombs through. Following the demonstration threaten to do the same but with many such bombs unless the Minbari ended the war.
they were able to lock on to the minbari ships cause they had the stealth tech turn off
He covered that, but also explained that we see earth ships locking on to and destroying white stars. Minbari ships augmented with vorlon technology, making them even more advanced than the Sharlin class. I'd also add that we see later in the ea civil war that the Agamemnon captain says that they upgraded to the new tracking system to be able to find Sheridan's fleet. That further indicates that they can lock on to minbari ships since whitestars made up a large portion of the fleet, as did sharlins.
Sheridan even said in the episode that they were using the same targeting system they did in the war. tracking and targeting are two different things. The only reason the Agamemnon was able to damage Sheridans white star was because the white star was in Jupiters atmosphere. They were targeting the wake of the engines and they weren’t actually hitting the white star they igniting hydrogen pockets in the atmosphere. I don’t believe they were actually able to target the white stars or Mimbari ships until they start integrating shadow technology into their ships.
Nice video. Per your analysis, unlikely the EA would win unless they not only reverse engineer shadow tech to get more powerful beam like weapons that can slice and dice like what the Minbari cruisers can do, but also build up sufficient numbers to counter the Minbari who have been stated to outnumber them constantly.
On the other hand, EA ships like Omegas may be suited to guerilla tactics and hit and run tactics due to their size and large fighter complement, plus long tours of duty without resupply due to their size again, but still hampered by their lack of speed. Also they could focus on their advancing good old missile and nuclear warhead technology as another way to fight the Minbari to combine with assymetrical warfare ala Sheridan Starkiller.
The only aspect which might match the Minbari is probably the latest star fury which has been implied to equal the Minbari Nial fighter given they can kill Vorlon fighters in a salvoZ
i think the Agamemnon locking on the whitestar might of been a fluke, we have to remember the whitestar fought a deranged shadow vessel and had just fought inside the gas giant of Jupiter before the Agamemnon appeared, may have temporally damaged the systems and we also need to consider that whitestar while meant to be part of a wider class of ships was still being tested and tried so bug and glitches were bound to happen, it is a mix of minbari and vorlon tech
My own feeling, is that neither the Minbarri, nor the humans would renounce such an interesting relationship. I'm sure it really hurts, with such one sided human losses. Minbarri never start a war; that's "part" of their cultural make-up. I would also like to add the observation that Jump-gates remove the territorial component of Space warfare, since there's nothing to stop a fleet of ships from Gating right over the earth (or Minbarri) Homeworld. A mere 2 or 3 minutes later, a slew of energy weapons would crisp a large number of cities. You're toast! That's at least 1 weakness of the B5 series, imo.
No, not before the ISA, but remember the minbari fought a civil war and also lost ships against the shadows.
Earthgov priority 1 was develop passive target systems like optical, infrared, laser tag which are very hard jam. They are not active sensors like radar.
I think they would do better than in the original war. But, they would still eventually lose.
The minbari were fighting the shadows in a interstellar war and earth was in the middle ages; castles, knights, barbarians, vikings,,, no way for earth to beat the minbari
IN my opinion, EAS would do far better in a second war. EAS has more esperience in guerilla tactics than the warrior caste. Where the warrior caste mad warriors with decorations, but we made soldiers made for war, they had more fighting pikes for individual combat, we fought individually. There H2H was almost nonexistant with one style, where we had many different stykes combined into one for one purpose to kill the enemy. Space Battles-minbari, ground fighting-Human.
I'd say no. Best outcome Earth Alliance could hope for, is that a long bloody campaing ends in a stand still: according to JMS, during Earth-Minbari war Minbari's were actually holding back in manner of speaking. They knew that because earth force ships couldn't lock on to them, they let them close the range so they could manually target them. Sure, they had still massive advantage due to their advanced weaponry, but that was still better than getting gunned down by slicer beams from a distance. I'd hate see them starting to treat their foes as equals.
Other thing is that while it's no secret that Earth Alliance has progressed technologically, there's also very real possibility that Minbari have made technological advancements since their last encounter and updated their strategy and tactics. I'd be surprised if they hadn't, given that warrior caste was still quite sore what they saw Earth Alliance getting away with murder what it came to death Dukhath, so they would have plenty of motivation. Lennier admitted that Minbari had gotten help in weapons developement from DeathWalker, so clearly intent to keep technological edge is there.
every Minbari gangsta unstill the Warlock Class Destroyer come into mass product
B4 was stronger and more advanced than B5, so likely had many of the most up to date weapons and weapons the EA had at that point, which was about 4 years before this conflict you are hypothesizing about. So the Minbari in this war scenario had almost all of the newest earth tech, save for four years of development, for over a thousand years, so I just can’t see the earth alliance standing any sort of chance against the Minbari
The Minbari are "at LEAST" 1000 years ahead of EA remember the Minbari was fighting in the shadow war 1000 years before indicating they were at least at earths tech level or more I do agree Earth would still lose even if all their ships were brought up to the current tech level but at least they could bloody the Minbari's face a bit that could result in Minbari not continuing the war and bring in a dialogue to stop the war so the outcome would be different yet the same. Remember Minbari are a dwindling species, thus every loss is that much more painful to them.
Its never explained as to what becaome of B4 after she went back in time to the first shadow war... ?.. after sinclair becomes valenn and Offers B4 to the minbari as a staging post to fight the first War B4 's Technologie would have been very advanced as it was commonly know the minbari had been space fairing for about 1000 years .. So that being said B4 would have been a major threat to the shadows paired with the minbari and the Vorlons... I think a prequal series ie BABYLON 4 The Shadow wars would have been a great idea so we could find out more about the vorlons, shadows first ones ect and what became of valenn and B4 After the first shadow wars... anyway just my view guys mjs " please do a prequal series !!!!
Warlocks have reverse engineered shadow tech. Warlocks can handle minbari crusiers at close range. There is a incident minbari ship attack a warlock blew it up. Warlock rail guns can penetrate minbari armor and god cannon(aegis) can distroy even centuari ships in one shot. They target it using optical targeting systems.
I have to disagree. In the case of the Trigati Sheridan explains, that the equipment is basically the same they had during the war and wonders, why they can suddenly track the Minbari. In Season 5 when Lennier leaves a White Star to investigate the involvment of the Centauri he follows some of their Cruisers. He orders his fighter to engage Stealth Mode. I think that the Trigati disengaged said Stealth Mode.
That leaves the White Star which might or might not have a Stealth Mode. It probably would've been a very boring fight against Earth in Season 4 had they used that Technology. Even if it creates an inconsistency.
the minbari had advanced technology,as well as bigger numbers - they all went for armageddon, if it were to happen again,odds are only a faction would war
I think....if they used guerrilla warfare tactics and if they had turned to stealing other aliens' technologies then they could shorten the gap. In the canon timeline, I think that a second war would be 60/40 - 40- being Earth since the Earth Alliance will need to focus on less orthodox tactics. It would have been interesting the hybrid ships seen in season 4 fighting off the real Minbari fleet. Still they met their match, so I could be wrong.
Probably based on some Shadow tech that we dug up on Mars
Omega Class Destroyer would constantly Rotate its "non Rotating" Section because of Conservation of momentum ...
Would make navigation and aiming impossible.
Well i read the had built approximately a thousand omega destroyers before the civil war and between the cival war and the drake attack they lost over 300 plus . But than doesn't include other vessels in the fleet and after the joint the isa they started building warlocks in large numbers and they added two carrier classes and with the stealth feature nullified i would this is possible, especially as the mimbari took have loses during tje shaw war and their civil war. Almost 2 thirds of their fleet destroyed or captured.. but that is unlikely to even occur as they are allied now more than ever
Earth cultures are VERY good at the art of war. I believe that Earth Alliance could quickly overtake them given enough time.
If the second Earth- Minbari war went off, Minbari would win with no effort.
Earth force had Warlocks during a battle with Centauri in Sheridan's dream in Lost Tales, they still lost.
I think the biggest factor not considered here is the trauma of the first Minbari-War.
It's easy to say that the Earth Alliance would put up a heftier fight if you just imagine the Earth Alliance fighting as heroicly as Londo describes it in "In the beginning". But that ignores pretty much all the context of the first Minbari War.
The Minbari War was extremely quick, because humanity had basically no way of effectively fighting them, *and* the Minbari ignored civilian targets for the most part.
In this regard, having better technology and tougher ships, being able to slow down the Minbari more, doesn't really put the Earth Alliance in a better position. Because the longer the war goes on, the more war fatigue will set in. I believe the Earth Alliance would collapse from the inside long before they could even bring all their heroic firepower to bear. Especially considering that this time around, humanity does not come into the war following a golden age, but with the memory of its near-destruction fresh in mind.
I think EA would still lose, but they would inflict greater damage and potentially cripple minbar for years. From what I have seen in the show, tech advancement seems to really slow down the older you get. EA is still in the rapid advancement age, while mimbar have really slowed down in advancement. Based on what the 1st ones became, it seems there is a certain tech path that is established early on that the race sticks too for the rest of their advancement.
I think a fully loaded Warlock Advanced Destroyer could definitely give a Sharlin War Cruiser a hard fight straight up toe-to-toe and could win quickly if prepared and in an ambush position.
In The Lost Tales we learn that EA can't even win against the Centauri, if they couldn't beat them then they wouldn't have been able to beat the Minbari. With the enhanced tech they certainly would have bloodied the Minbari a good deal more, maybe even won some scattered victories, but those would have been at great cost. It'd basically turn out like the Human-Covenant war from Halo.
yeah but what you dont know is that the centauri were heavily upgraded with drahk tech which is shadow tech. it was in the books. Also a couple of other serious problems. how can Galen see the future? he is a technomage. it doesn't exactly make sense. also, earth is apart of the ISA. the ISA includes the minbari not to mention the victory class destroyers and whitestar fleets. so Galen sees the future somehow, and the centauri go to war with the humans and the minbari, ISA, other Human allies just sit back and be like naah?
another thing that bugs me about this. The dilgar possessed a tech level near the centauri. When earth went to war with them and beat them, earth was in its infancy of military technology. I mean the hyperion isn't exactly the most awesome destroyer.
The centauri were afraid of the dilgar, so were the narn and the rest of the league.
earth has shown it can build ships at an alarming rate. in the 11 years post minbari war, earth had produced hundreds of omega class destroyers. and the omegas were vastly superior to the hyperions. now we have the warlocks which started production in 2261-2 and these events take place 30 years after a call to arms? so this would put the timeline around 2290 to 2300. earths military tech was advancing at such a rapid rate, a new destroyer was being designed and built every 10 years or so. so in 30 years how many warlocks could earth mass produce not to mention although we never saw, the likelihood that earth has even a more advanced destroyer than the warlock in the fleet.
In the battle for earth the reaction of the female bonehead shows that one of their ships would have died where the already badly damaged Agamemnon survived. Combine that with "we can target Bony McBonehead now" and I guess EarthForce could kick the space elfs skinny rear ends.
As for the battle around that renegade space station - the EF ships where damaged and outnumbered and decided to abandon a rebellious outpost and use blockade tactics.
No,not at the start of the series The Earth Alliance, while regaining much of its navel power lost during the war, was still not able to defeat the Minbari. The EA was stronger then before the war and could very likely make the Minbari bleed badly for ever victory. But the technology gap was still to large. Until the Shadows came. The advanced Omega Destroyers seen in season four may have been a serious challenger to the Minbari war cruisers. The Warlock class destroyers built after the Shadow War. While again not as advanced as a war cruiser, would give the EA a major step in being able to hold the Minbari out of EA space.
Season 1 no Season 4-5 with the Shadow Omegas, thunderbolts and G.O.D cannons etc possibly
well, after having such a lot of problems locking onto your enemy, you'd throw a LOT of research at it. and a honking great optical telescope is unjammable.
Does the video creator not realise the White Star, while certainly being the most advanced Minbari ship yet built, didn't incorporate stealth technology? It was built to fight the Shadows, who could see through the Minbari's stealth systems with contemptuous ease. We see Shadow cruisers cut Minbari Sharlins to pieces on more than one occasion. The White Star didn't need stealth to face the Shadows, so the EarthForce ships were able to see and target it during the Earth civil war. The people within the show claiming EA could face the Minbari after a period of 10-12 years were simply arrogant and stupid, as Londo Mollari put it.
The EA can’t even make artificial gravity it would still be a slayer. Plus the Nebari have Vorlon tech.
Rewatching this video i saw a video claimed that earth force built a thousand omega class warships. And lost around 300 of them between the civil war and the drake invasion ( not including ships of other classes)but i recall for the show all the cost of the mimbari war was paid to earth as reparations in the surrender and peace treaty. It sounds like a high number but if we look at history say American nave ww2 and British navy the ship production was incredible. In a four year period America build hundreds of warships. 27 new fleet carriers and a hundred escort carriers. Earth force would have the resources and manpower of the world and its colonies.
I'm with this conclusion. Probably put up a better fight but ultimately take the L. From what I understand locking weapons was a problem but I also, if I remember right, the Minbari were able to destroy EA ships at an alarming rate in battles too. I cannot remember the exact when and where of it but they destroyed a massive EA task force/fleet in like 11 minutes without suffering any losses. So even if they were able to lock on and return fire if you are still losing 5, 10, 15, or even like 50 ships in a manner of minutes you simply have your fire power reduced so fast while theirs remains steady for it to matter. All it really does is make them concentrate their forces into larger packs to insure they can mow the EA ships down fast enough before they can get real damage back at them. So fewer colonels and bases fall at a time but they just get smashed down nonetheless. So the war is merely prolonged.
Yeah don't think the EA is able to take on the Minbari prior to the launch of the Warlock. Maybe not even then (too few). But i disagree that they've not built their fleet back up to levels equal to what they had before the war. The EA had a pretty big fleet during the civil war. Big enough that even divided in half (between Clark and Sheriden) it took Sheriden's forces, the Whitestar fleet, the Minbari, Narn, Centauri AND League to assault Earth. And even AFTER that devastating conflict in A Call to Arms, they were able to muster 800 Omega's to protect Earth from the Drakh. Given the time between Sheriden's warning of the attack and the attack itself commencing, I find it hard to believe that the ENTIRE EA fleet was able to make it back in time for the battle. We even see a hint of this when Captain Gideon's ship arrives AFTER the battle was over (though he commanded an Explorer at the time and was likely a LONG way from Earth) Either way, even only a few years after the Civil War the EA is still rocking MINAMUM 800 Omega's - probably more, in addition to the Hyperion's and Nova's that were still a part of the fleet. So numbers wise I think they had what it took.
EA's biggest problem is in technology still. Minbari weapons VASTLY outranged EA weapons during the war, which was an even bigger problem than their stealth tech. And I see no evidence that anything the Alliance is using post war is a truly significant upgrade from what they were using DURING the war in those terms (not counting stuff that's been modded with Shadow tech). In conclusion, I'd say MAYBE with the advent of the Warlock. Maybe they force a sort of stalemate. But that's a BIG maybe.
Next do Tony Soprabo vs Heleb Keller!!!
I think that the Omega class could have inflicted damage on a Sharlin cruiser, but I suspect that destroying one would have taken 3 Omegas and the element of surprise. Head to head the Sharlin's beam weapon would likely destroy at least 2 Omegas before they could inflict much damage. I don't think Earth Alliance ever had more Omegas than the Minbari had Sharlins.
What would have happened is actually very easy to answer. Could the Earth forces beat the minbari, no. Would they be able to inflict higher casualties, hell yes. Remember that the minbari mentioned how the earth ships of the first war couldn't damage the minbari ships, in particular any of the shalen class battleships. This is why losing one was such a big hit to their mental standing.
That all being said the minbari would have lost dozens of battleships in a two year conflict, like the first war. However that would have left the ending of the war much more bloody.
Minbari are known to chase a species back to their home world, slap them in the penis, and call it a day. After loosing so many ships the menbari would glass the planet earth in retaliation. It is not too far of a speculation to think they would also hunt down any survivors.
I do have to say that the earth fleet, by the end of the series, had some ships that could stand toe to toe with a shalen class battleship and win. Still few in number though. Also, if you add the destroyer's ungraded with shadow tech, then the menbari might start to sweat for a change.
I will tell you exactly what would happen. The EA would be defeated. However they would have caused such catastrophic damage to the minbari fleet in the process that the centauri would move in and subjugate the minbari, taking advantage of their unexpected superiority in firepower and troop numbers.
Delenn: If you value your life, be somewhere else!
👍
Are EA ships capable of locking on to Minbari ships: I hate to disagree, but in the first example they were able to lock on because the Minbari turned off their stealth tech. As for the second example, the Agamemnon was able to see the Whitestar but not lock on to it. Any damage was minimal and came from weapons fire igniting in the atmosphere of the planet, not from a direct hit.
Now for your question at the end of the video let me take a quote from the last scene that you referenced. "Only one human captain has ever survived battle with a Minbari fleet. He is behind me. You are in front of me. If you value your lives, be somewhere else.
if they had a death star
Far as I'm concerned the only way the Earth Alliance could win is if their fleet was made up of Warlock Destroyers and some new advanced escort frigates or corvettes. Otherwise there's just too many older ships to put up the kind of fight nessisary
with Shadow tech no problem,but the Drakh are a more immiediate threat.They would need the Minbari as allies
The Minbari civil war crippled the military power of the Federation dramatically. Furthermore the Earth Alliance has most likely more not less ships for the strength of Earth is the industrial capacity. Last but not least their technology is not a bit more advanced, it is more or less en par with the Minbari due to the transfer of Shadow-technology (these ships were even superior to white star ships due to their size).
What speaks against Earth for now was the own civil war (but its consequences were not as severe since the procreation rate and absolute man power is far greater; the Minbari are actually in decline for a long time. Less and less Minbari are actually born), and the Drakh attack on Earth (which will be successfully dealt with). In around 50 years after the war Earth will be surpass the Minbari.
A last note: The Earth destroyer did not retreat because the Captains were incompetent to deal with them or feared them, but they had to consider the greater picture, and a second Minbari-Earth war was not on the agenda. They simply acted reasonable.
"Starkiller" Sheridan pulled a Jeneway or even Sisko
I think the Omega class destroyer is good enough but they lack numbers
If Earth were stupid enough to provoke the Minbari a second time, I doubt the outcome would be any different.
Yep, Earth Alliance 11 year later would still have its but kicked, but the invaders would suffer significantly more losses. Maybe in a couple of hundred years maybe Earth Alliance might finally have a chance of military victory (maybe..)
The Minbari would win, but it would be a nasty war
EFs tech is much more advanced than even just 11 years ago, and when faced with extinction there's nothing Earth wouldn't do to stop them
“Only one human captain has ever won against a Mimbari fleet. He is behind me, you are in front of me. If you value your lives, be somewhere else.”