Was She Alive?
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- Опубліковано 1 жов 2024
- Was Madeline Soto Alive as she was being displayed in the vehicle between 7:50 and 9:40 am on Febrary 26, 2024?
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hit the like button please! thank you!
I do sir! As soon as I walk through the threshold!
What if she was given her meds and she passed out? What if she was accidentally strangled to death during c/a??
Did the roommate(s) ever question why he and Maddie were sleeping in the same room?
Did they know?
@@GrayHughesInvestigates were they on the first floor only? was this a secret? if it was so normal for her to send her child off to sleep with a grown man in another room and she really did not think anything of it, it would be known... at least i think so.
His traveling around sporadically indicates he’s PANICKING
My theory is he drugged her and she accidentally overdosed...then panic set in
He's definitely in a PANIC ... the monster yuck!
No 13 year old needs "help" getting ready for bed or getting ready for school in the morning. And Jen, does she work in a coal mine, so tired?
Jen called it anxiety, probably a wrong term for genuine terror and abuse reactions.
My parents did and I did with mine. Making sure they do everything needed before bed like showers, teeth, clothes for the next day and school stuff ready. Kids stall and dilly dally.
I disagree. My experience as a sister, babysitter, nanny, mom etc. has been otherwise. I’m retired, but my memory about that is still excellent!
@@MM-ik7csYes. And ADD makes the nightly ritual harder, and if your meds are wearing off, you do feel exhausted and terribly disorganized.
I’m so but I disagree my 13 and 15 year old boys still need help making sure they do everything before they go to bed otherwise they won’t do it especially my son with adhd
I think he drugged her for his “time” with her. Might explain why none of her friends or anyone around her had any real suspicions about Stephan because she didn’t remember it. He hadn’t seen her in a while so I’m sure he was very excited to “see” her again and possibly she was OD’d and then he panicked and drove around with her deceased like you thought Grey for his alibi. I guess we will know at some point if she was strangled but I’d bet she has drugs in her system from him. He probably gave her Xanax, or something like that, which he probably had a prescription for or swiped from her own mom. God that poor little girl was absolutely abused by him for years it’s just awful to think about 💔🙏🏻
One part of the 900 document stated that some of the pics/videos Maddie was awake, & some were of her asleep. He claimed he was taking Ativan during the period she was only “missing”. My bet is that he was drugging her, too.
A teacher of hers said she had a lot of sleepy days, where she comes to class but puts her head down the entire period.
@19:29 Thank you for the full explanation of rigor mortis and how it relates to the timeline. She could have been alive, heavily sedated, but alive.
I'm starting to think he seriously over drugged her..
Drove her around waiting for her to wake up, and after lunch just killed her.
It really aggravates me that the mother has not been charged with anything yet
And she won’t be
Let the evidence speak for itself. If she did anything investigators will find out. You’d be pretty upset if you were arrested without sufficient evidence correct? This is why we need to allow the law to work as it’s intended to. They should never make arrests simply on a hunch. There needs to be substantial evidence.
Id be a pretty big risk to have her in the car already dead,,,I mean what if he got pulled over for Anything,,even if he didn't actually break any traffic laws, cops, especially in Florida,can pull over anyone and claim they crossed the line, didn't stop all the way, has a break light out. And then there's a kid dead in the car?! I hope he ends up just flipping his plea and pleading guilty and just tells us what happened. We already know he had the pics and videos on his phone,he might as well tell the truth about the murder.
Gray: Yes, I think you are 100% RIGHT about her being drugged first. That makes the most sense. AND, as far as the police or sheriff's dept. thinking she was already dead around 7:15 or so, they didn't HAVE the coroner's report yet, letting them know "time of death" or anything else at that point, when they held the press conference where they stated they thought she was already deceased around 7:00 a.m. or so. - Susan Burns
You would think LE would have said they believed she MAY have already been deceased, or asleep. They seemed to be pretty sure about her already being deceased? But who knows, maybe she was drugged not deceased ... I'm glad you're asking these questions Gray. JUSTICE for MADDIE 🙏🙏🙏🕊🕊🕊✝️🇬🇧
What absolutely boggles my mind is why hasn't this precious girl have a own room??????
Meticulously researched timeline with accompanying map details! Sure makes a difference in understanding how Sterns could have worked out the transportation for this ill-planned (or unplanned) death. 😮Thanks, Gray. Couldn’t have been easy to put together from so many sources.
Occam's Razor: he came over to initiate abuse, she wasn't having it, maybe while she was changing clothes for bed, he got mad & strangled her, afraid she'd scream, he had scratch marks on his hands.
Thank you. I read the same things in the reports. She was gone before 7 am
I do not understand with everyone talking about her why would she not want to come forward and tell the world that she is not involved and how everyone is wrong why wouldn't you want to speak up and tell your side of the story why is she not expressing her anger towards him I would think if your boyfriend was messing with your daughter I would think she would be angry not just sitting there she never went to look for her daughter her family or her are not showing much emotion then you hear your boyfriend has been molesting your daughter then he kills her and your just gonna sit there and not show any kind of anger I would have lost my mind honestly I just can't understand the family not speaking out like if she's innocent then talk for her tell her story why would you not want to speak out to everyone especially because people are blaming her I would want my nahe cleared if your innocent Jen come tell your story everyone wants to hear from you
all these northport parents coddling their sons so they can turn out to be complete monsters...37 and living with parents.... there are exceptions but he isn't one of them.
Now stern is living in fear 👏Jail house justice.Dead man walking . Justice for Maddie 💛💜💙💛💛💙💜💛
Yay
He’s not in gen pop most likely in protected custody he’ll get his date w the lethal injection or the Mexican Mafias
How come the roommates didn't see or hear anything or see anything during the time they lived in same appt.
I have been saying the same thing.
This is alarming, I wasn’t aware there were other adults living there. This stinks of trafficking.
@@TT_09 No charges for distribution or trafficking. That was not the case.
I respectfully nominate Mr Sterns for a**hole of the year…..
😂
No respect necessary
💯Agree
Jacka$$ of the year. 🫏💩 of the year.
I wouldn't even give him credit for being an a**hole. A**holes have a meaningful purpose. He does not. He's just plain evil.
Thanks for putting together the phone pings with the timing of where people were on the map. Great work as always and thanks for your valuable time to put videos like this together for everyone.
Justice for Maddie..her mom knows more
AND WHY DID HE GOT RID OF LAPTOP & BACK PACK AT A DEFERENT PLACE..
you mean Didn't . because he is dumb
Panic. Random
He dumped the computer and backpack right there at the apartment complex
Thank you Gray great show
No one takes ADD meds before bed, will keep them up. And the jaw muscle relaxes after death, so will be open.
Some people do. There’s a med specifically made for severe ADD which works at night. I’ve had to drink strong coffee or take my ADD med at night so I can be still enough to sleep! I don’t know about this person’s situation. But some adult and children have racing thoughts and can’t settle their minds for sleep. More common than you might think. More adults are being diagnosed, too. Even those who had no problems in younger years.
@@sandyshirley5079 I stand corrected then, thanks for sharing that with me. ❤️
Adderal is out of control, people get 90/ 30mg a month, and eat them in a week, and buy them for the rest of the month
@@ScabibbleWillyThanks for the acknowledgment. I know you mean well. I hope the knowledge will help you in the future with those you know. I wish I had known this when I was much younger! I could have helped others!
Too many people dependant on drugs 😢
I think it's possible. I would LOVE for them to release all the information!! I also understand why they don't.
I believe she wasnt alive. If she was alive why toss the bookbag
The question was, what do you think, was she alive??? I think law enforcement was pretty clear that she was not. They haven't given us any reasons why they think so, but I don't think they would say it so strongly if they weren't sure.
How he get her dead body into car without neighbors seeing that weird scene?
they said they "Believe"
@@joanbaczek2575my guess is he put her in there during the dark but still, what time did the Sun rise because when he came back he was there at the house for 12 minutes
@@GrayHughesInvestigates You are correct they did. I'm patient enough to just wait. We'll eventually find out. 😃
I have often wondered if she was still alive during all of the driving. However I thought I read somewhere that the murder charge implies that she was killed during SA, which would knock out this theory.
I really think he groomed her since she was so little 8 she might have thought she was in love wit him that would explain her friend saying maddie was always talking to him on the phone and texting him and that they were really close i really do belive her being so inocent she might have though she loved him and something went wrong so he had to kill her in order to keep the relationship secret. I know a girl that was sleeping with her mom boyfriend qnd ended up marrying him when she got older i know is sick but it happens at that age being inocent girls get taken advantage off easily and he might have used her fights wit mom to get closer 2 her hes disgusting and should face the death penalty for what he did and mom shame on her for not protecting her child
Omg blablabla go to the point!!
Saw you on Vinnie! 👍❤️
😊 that was an excellent interview 👏
Thank you, Gray! Your timelines are second to none. I appreciate your view on this case.
If you are a father, Happy Father's Day! 🌻 mm
Gray’s a father in my eyes. He has two grown bonus sons who came with his lovely wife. They worked together to get them into our country legally. It wasn’t easy and took many years. I respect him so much for that!
I don’t like to tell other people’s business, but this is something wonderful. You’ll hear him saying he’s going fishing with his son, or taking him on a road trip or driving, or his kids coming over for dinner. They are the children of his heart, for sure.
@@sandyshirley5079 I had no idea. Thank you for sharing this information. It only makes me appreciate Gray that much more. ♥️🌻🤗
@@mmklaar6948 thank you!
@@GrayHughesInvestigatesThank you for your time and effort! I am a new part of the family! I also enjoy seeing you on Closing Arguments With Vinnie! 🌻♥️
I don’t think of her as a mother. It gives us mother’s a bad name.
Natalia Rodriguez, I agree 1000%! JS is a monster! I hope they throw the book at her! 🤬🤯😳 ♥️mm
Same for Stephan ,he gives good men a bad name. 😔
I have a real hard time believing her mom didn't know! Jmo! 🧡
I agree.. she’s trash and deserves prison
She knew everything IMO he were never into her he were looking at Mattie the whole time but the mom were In love with him she let him have his way and he definitely told Mattie don’t tell anyone and what he will do to her that’s probably why she were afraid to tell her teachers so sadly suffered the abuse JS
Her sister should have kept Mattie with her until Jen got home why would she drop off a child to be home alone I don’t get it another thing she Jen were jealous of her because he were giving her more attention than Jen
Could've been traffic for that specific area at that specific time, regarding the travel time you were contemplating at the beginning. Especially considering you saw a similar pattern within a similar area around a similar time from two different drivers.
Monster!
Did Maddie have her cell phone at the party?
Was SS jealous that there was a 15-year-old boy that was with parents rentingJen‘s room?
huh?
In one of the rooms Jennifer rented a woman and her 15 year old son were living.
I wondered this too…
Thank you for doing a video of this Gray. I don’t get the time to listen to a livestream very often so this is great!
I think Jenn killed Maddie cuz she found them upstairs doing God only knows, went into a rage and Stefan covered it up and took the wrap to try to hide his seggsual crimes...I'll bet it comes out...I think he did care about the little girl, as sick and twisted as it is, I think it was Jenn herself
Chris Watts tried that defense, the jury saw right through it. Doubt that one will fly
Can't believe I missed this LIVE? I heard Gray on Court TV, and what Gray said completely made sense as it relates to the riga setting in. Madeline's body was limp and maybe she was still alive at that point? Basically,, the time line of her death, all made so much sense!
Rigor Mortis does go away.
after having it for 12 hours or more yes. that is impossible in this case.
Generally speaking rigor can last as long as 24 hours. Onset of rigor is generally 2 to six hours. The puzzling thing is if she were dead in the car I would think the gate attendant would notice her coloring unless she was completely covered.
@@denisesw9128 Probably didn't do more than glance in, if that.
Then comes back again
You have to stop giving Jennifer the benefit of the doubt. There is enough evidence to prove her guilt in covering up her daughter’s murder and abuse. Please stop.
Well, the police haven’t arrested her yet. There’s obviously not enough evidence. Now, that can change, but until then it’s best to give the benefit of the doubt. People need to let investigators do their jobs. They’re definitely looking into her story, and they have a lot more info than any of us.
At which moment did he throw away her backpack? She would not need them after that, so either it was premeditated, or he had finished her off before. How did Maddie feel about food? Was she likely to skip a meal? To me, Jennifer seems to be holding herself just above water, struggling to manage her mental illness. That can be a challenge. Her doctor might have an idea about her coping skills at the time.
If he dumped her book bag and the one crock at 7:35 she wouldn’t be getting in the car with one shoe. It probably fell off before he brought her out of the house.
Just my thought's....I think that S.S. had to wait, before driving back to the apartment, because he knew that Jennifer would still be there. And would be awake.
Therefore he had to drive around.
I don;t think she was still alive in the car what if when it came tome to kill her and he couldn't go through with it! How would he explain her laptop being in the dumpster!
at least it wouldn't be a murder.
Also, I feel like it was always his plan to kill her because he knew she was going to grow up and figure out what he was doing was wrong
The strangest thing is her one white crock found still in the apartment, right next to what was likely her mom's white crocks right inside the front door. Just a size larger. I think it points to her passing in the apartment. Why else would she have 1 shoe? Which gets thrown away.
This gʻuy is so brazen rìding around with poor maddie for so long. Its to bad he didn't get stopped by a police officer.
Thx for this. QUESTION: How did Maddie get into the car that morning? Did he strangle her in the car, or did he carry her body to the car? If the latter, SOMEONE had to have seen him carrying her…
Ascertaining time of death from the body isn't an exact science, not after days outside. If they are recently dead, things like liver temperature can be used, but once they cool to the ambient temperature of surroundings that becomes not much use. So they're looking at decomposition, insect activity act and circumstantial information (when last seen alive, travel of food through digestive system) to make an estimation. There's no way they could say based on autopsy findings alone that she died at 7.30 am or 4 hours before or after that I don't think, not given she lay exposed to the elements outside for days.
I think the K9 report on page 55 confirms that she was alive while in his vehicle. No way he has a dead body in his vehicle for hours and the dog didn't alert on his vehicle. Which would mean it was premeditated.....she was drugged and he planned to kill her. The fact that the K9 alerted to remains on Jen's car, specifically the rear passenger wheel well,, makes me think that those two early morning trips he took in Jen's car were to the dump site. Beyond that, I shudder to think. Sick, sick monster.
My guess is after the pills kicked in in night Stephan did his bad acts. She roused a bit and said she was telling. He then choked her back to sleep and she died. He panicked and got her out in am before Jen woke. I don’t think he knew she was dead till he woke up either. And I also think he ran back to the house when he “forgot his clicker” to clean up something left behind. Like probably the pills or something.
I live right there.. I could possibly drive the exact time and see if it’s eight minutes or not??
The only disadvantage is School is not in session now ,summer break
He knew she was dead when he threw her backpack, laptop and her 1 white crocs in the dumpster.She wouldn't need these things anymore. If she was only druged, his plans to kill her later would maybe go wrong (attempted to kill) and she would need all her things. He was sure she was dead and got rid of her things.
How did Stephan know what time Madeline would be home from her Birthday party?
Jenn
Jenn
I think maybe he drugged her too much so that he could assault her, so yes maybe she was still alive in the car, but he thought she had overdosed, so maybe he choked her so he wouldn't get in trouble for drugging and assaulting her. I would think something would come up about drugs in her system in the autopsy - haven't seen anything about that.
Why are comments separated? Makes me not want to subscribe! Seriously
I have a crazy theory.... Did he drug her and she accidentally overdose and die...then panic set in...??
This explains so much. Thanks for your hard work putting this together.
I think he drugged Maddie so he could do things to her that night and he accidentally overdosed her and couldn't wake her up. Maybe he strangled her in a panic, because if she woke up then his secret would be out, and everything unfolded from there.
I would be curious to know what you would tell an abuse victim that would make her more afraid NOT to sleep in the same bed as her mother and Sterns.
Yea that car ride doesn’t make sense and that so called mother if you can call her that I feel set her own child up and that’s why she sent them to sleep together maybe what Iam thinking is that she heard that Stephen wanted to sleep with Maddie and in order to maybe have them around she agreed to let him sleep with her in the same bed and probably God knows do certain unappropriate stuff. So I get the feeling that her mom was in on the whole thing and knew exactly what was happening and what he was doing, maybe not murder her but everything else everything else she knew that she had consented to it so to me they both need to be charged in the murder of this poor young girl he’s a pig and a monster and I hope he rots in prison because he’s gonna have hell waiting for him for sureI really do hope that so-called mother of her gets her karma too, and gets sent to prison that poor girl did not deserve this at all. This is my blood to hear and discusses me.
she may have been alive that whole morning he was driving around trying to figure out what to do with her. An overdose of some sort and he panicked … could even be he strangled her where she was found since cadaver dog didn’t get a hit of human remains on his car .
It's a horrible - but credible - thought to think she may have been drugged.
I'm not sure of his direction of travel when he had the flat tire but I've been thinking maybe he was headed to dump her body in the water. She was in the trunk at that time so he may have removed her and placed her in those trees to hide her while he changed the tire because someone, maybe a police officer, might stop to see if he needed help. He couldn't just put her out on the road and putting her back in the car would be risky. Then he may have decided to just leave her because he feared getting caught moving her back to the car. Maybe he thought about coming back late in the night but circumstances or being scared he was being watched didn't give him the opportunity to do so.
I think he did try to gout back out there the next night in JS car. His phone pinged out there I think. Actually the next two nights
Love these timelines ❤ Happy Father's Day Gray. Blessings of Love and Light to you and your family ❣️
Thank you for this Gray .. 👏👏👏👏👏 JUSTICE for MADDIE 🙏 🕊 🙏🕊🙏🕊 ✝️
This case police let go many evidence. Very confuse everything. The mother know the truth and the family. But money talk here for mom. The family back her up now. But she know what happend to her own daughter. She is so guilty like the family which surround her. R.I. P TO MADELLINE.
The investigation is ongoing. The only way we (the public) know anything is down to certain documents, footage and audio being lodged and made available prior to trial . Wait until the court case as only then will all relevant evidence be laid out by the prodecution. It’s really too early to make wild claims when you know no more than anyone else, simply based on information you have read in the media. The mother may well be charged with something. Or it may be she’s a victim of this heinous man as well. Just because she hasn’t yet doesn’t mean she won’t. Charges will be brought if the evidence exists. Not because some anonymous person on the internet is desperate for it to happen. In the real world, these things take time and have to be investigated and evidence gathered. Having a feeling someone is a wrongun will not get far in court. You have to prove it.
Why do both of them say she was wearing black shorts but she was found in jeans?
@3:38 you don't know Orlando traffic! That route would take that amount of time
it doesn't make any sense that he threw her things away before killing her... unless he had it planned that that's what he was going to do
I wonder if SA had MS location via an app on his phone and that is why he paused on the road and waited for her to be dropped off before arriving at her house? 🤔
She was. Dead when he placed her laptop and back in trash
or unconscious while in the vehicle
I assume toxicology hasn't gotten back, yet?
remember guys, jen is not too bright and shes taking medz, so maybe shes 'oblivious' to any csam going on..shes imature and not a good mom because shes not 'normal'
Really?? Do not make excuses for her! She needs to be in jail too!!
Poor woman probably took Sterns at his word for the reasons you said. She needs support, not condemnation. How do we know that any of us could do better were we in her shoes? I’m not casting that stone at her. Just grateful I am not in her shoes.
This guy is driving around with her in the passenger seat like this is Weekend at Bernie’s. What a sick freak.
ADHD medication is usually one pill and it should be taken in the morning, first thing. Some medication for ADHD are dosed in two parts: one dose in the morning and one dose in the afternoon, approximately 3-5 hours after the morning dose. Maddie could also be taking Clonidine at night to help her sleep, which would be taken in the evening about an hour before bedtime. I’m obviously not a doctor, but I hope this personal knowledge helps.
It was said that she stopped taking her meds. He said she took her night time meds after getting home. I wonder, if that was Adivan. I took that once and never again. It makes you so out of it. Remember people would take that drud and walk around and not remember what they did. He prob over medicated her. I think he brought her out of that house and did the death in his car before he moved her body. I wonder if she didn't want anything to do with him anymore and mb even threatened to tell...or mb pregnant . But he had to get rid of her before going to school. So that is why I think she was going to tell her counselor or someone....Just my thoughts. Prayers for all victims of abuse.
I've always wanted to know why the roommates didn't do anything.
Her mouth was open and she was slumped to the left ,pretty much the whole time .
I’m from the area. I’m pretty sure it’s traffic.
Great work 👍
Thank you for the information
I think it would be more difficult if he had driven around with Madeline if she was awake because she must have thought, why is he not dropping me off at school, then they drive around, she might have felt scared or uneasy so if this was the case she would probably try to get out of the car, so I think it would be more plausible if she was drugged, maybe he somehow got a sedative and popped it in with her ADHD pills.
as I stated in the video she was drugged and unconsious.
Gray, thanks for sharing your expertise. I wish my brain worked like that! As usual, I agree with you. I'm undecided if Maddie was still alive during the time in question. I believe Jennifer didn't know anything about SA. Maybe she isn't too bright, has mental health issues or a drug problem. It's not lost on me that she hasn't been arrested. The tech evidence alone is enough for me to consider this a slam dunk against Sterns. I wonder what strategy would a defense attorney use to defend Sterns?
Hope you have a great father's day!
It's nice to see some people start to say they don't think Jenn knew about the sa. Personally, I don't. She may have problems, but I've said all along I thought she was ignorant to the sa. It happens. Sometimes mothers don't know. I didn't. 😢
@@BeingConformed I'm sorry for what you went through. My best friend's parents didn't know for several years. They were loving and devoted parents that were groomed by a wolf in sheep's clothing. If they had known earlier they certainly would have done something. They had to live with that guilt the rest of their lives. ✌️🙏
Great job Gray. I have something to add about ADD meds, adderrall makes you very awake so you have to take it in the morning. My daughter was prescribed it at age 10, I have also taken it over the years. If you don’t take it early enough you will need sleep medication otherwise you will be up all night. It desperately interferes with eating and sleeping schedules. At 10 my daughter was also prescribed sleep meds. If I could go back in time I would have never have agreed to all of these meds as girls at this age are still growing of course and starting to develop and it also can interfere with menstrual function and schedule at these ages 10-13. Anyway just wanted to add my 2 cents. I think you make good points about the possibility Maddie could’ve been awake during this time but I still believe he killed her in the early morning hours after assaulting her.
My cousin has to drink 3 large cans of Monster Energy every night just to go to sleep bc he refuses meds for his ADHD. But I also believe her ADD was an effect of the SA.. poor baby 😢
I’m another one who needs caffeine or tea sometimes to stop my racing thoughts and sleep. Before I understood ADD, a neighbor told me that if his son got a little wild I should give him sweet coffee or a couple of coca colas and sit him in the corner ( he had to go to a Girl Scout meeting and wait while his sister went there with us). Everybody is different. I’ve had to take meds for my adult ADD in the evening if I had a meeting or had trouble sleeping, too.
Food for thought, but if Stephen was planning on taking Madeline to McDonald's why would she have been in the kitchen in the morning? Feels like this is another lie by Jennifer.
she probably thought stephan took her to mcdonalds at 8:30. getting lunch ready in the kitchen she perhaps thought.
@@GrayHughesInvestigates good point
No! She was dead already. Perhaps she was killed around 5 am.
well, we don't know that but yeah, maybe early morning as I sated in the video. This is just something to think about.
Thank you!
She was drugged.
Appreciate the condensed version. Thanks for the TL
Heavy traffic in this area. Lots of stoplights. Tourist area. That’s what the hold up was
right, I know, but not that long and at night. at 9 am there would be much more traffic. Think through tings before having such vitriol. I did.
I don't think it had anything to do with Jenn trusting him. I think Jenn was selling her daughter to Stephan and then he was selling the videos and pictures off to the Internet. I think Jenn was just as involved with whatever Stephan had going on. She didn't care what he did as long as she got some off the earnings. Jenn deserves life behind bars but something is telling me that she'll give the investigation whatever they need and she'll get away with her involvement or whatever she knew was going on
What that’s a wild assumption!! If she’s guilty they wouldn’t give her a deal to turn on SS cuz they have enough on him to convict him! More like he could get the death penalty off the table for his testimony against JS..
What’s your evidence? The police are the most knowledgeable about that and until they arrest or announce, I can’t condemn the mom. I’ve known and worked with women something like her. Not one did what you suggest.
For one the night of her death he was ona know website where childporn is made and sold on. She sent her daughter to bed upstairs, together and away from her. When you hear all the evidence put together and read the hundreds of pages they released this week, it's not hard to put things together but only time will reveal all. It's an unfortunate, heartbreaking, situation, and I hope justice to the fullest maxis served to anyone who was involved or anyone who knew what hell Maddie was going through. You can't tell me Jenn had absolutely no idea what was going on..
@@JuniperJeniper187I doubt Jen knew. I am a survivor and can tell you NOBODY around me knew. I told NO ONE until I was an adult.
@@ItalianPrncss196 I was the mom that didn't know. It's heartbreaking, but it happens. It drives me nuts all the know it alls that say no way Jenn didn't know. In fact, I stopped watching GHI when he said the same thing. This is the first video I've watched since then, lol.
Gray, Please, look into the forgotten Clicker. He went back for the forgotten clicker. He also stated he forgot his phone. So did Maddie. Why didn’t re retrieve their forgotten cell phones? I’m dying for those questions to be asked of him.
why would I look into something that isn't true. he merely said that to explain why he went back. I would like to know why he went back at 8:19
I’m also wondering about his hurting his thumb while changing the tyre excuse. I don’t believe that either
Exactly Gray, everything he has said was a lie so yes the lie of oh yeah I forgot the gate clicker.
HAPPY FATHERS DAY GRAY! I watched you in court T.V. and saw the light bulb moment you had. Driving around with her being drugged as opposed to dead makes the most Sense. It struck me as odd him looping through the MCDonalds so i think he def wanted to be captured on CCTV for an alibi. He has to get her out of the house some how. I wonder if he carried her to the car or if she leaned on him as he propped her up? 🤔 I Wonder if that was captured on film and the police have not said? Thanks again Gray...you have a great mind!
Hi everyone
It wasn’t premeditated in the sense that he didn’t know that Jen was going to say she didn’t want them to sleep with her
Are you sure he did not have some way of causing Jen to panick, without her even realizing it?
Try congested area!!
I am a child victim survivor, of my stepfather. From age 3-14. The fact that Madeline was on medication for adhd, anxiety .....anything at all is infuriating. She was reactive to her environment. It caused her huge distress. To this day for me, im an insomniac from sleepless nights of anticipation of him coming in my room. I had those same dark curcles under my eyes. It's unfortunate that no one could read it right. I think Jenns family had some issues about him,they knew he was weird and didn't like him. He manipulated Jenn to believe him so she did. He was obsessed with Maddie. I think Jenn was often drugged up by him, so he could do things to Maddie. So if Jenns sister was dropping her off at home that night and Jenn was still at work, was it assumed she'd be alone until Jenn got home? Was Stephan invited to come watch Maddie during that time? Did he show up unannounced? Did Jenn know he was coming? Did Jenns family know he was going to be there with Maddie while Jenn worked? I bet they sensed things.
That said, in my opinion , I think when Jenn said she saw her getting ready in the morning, she said it that way because maybe she knew her family would question why she wasn't up with Maddie getting ready and Stephan was there. Maybe they don't like him and she was covering that up, not realizing just how big this story would become. I think she thought she heard them, was drowsy and didn't get up to look so she assumed they were getting ready. Her lie was just that.
I don't think she was alive once she was in that car. Does the police or Jennifer disclose where sterns parked his car sunday night? It seems to me also spur of the moment decisions not a very planned matter
Flat tire messed up his plan he had to dump her to avoid anyone seeing her if they stopped to assist the tire change. After he didn’t retrieve her body to carry out rest of his plan
@@joanbaczek2575I'm thinking he must have driven on that flat tire for some time before he pulled over to change it. Reason being because the side walls weren't even there when he threw it in the trash they said. When they recovered it they said it didn't have any sides to it. He must have run on the rims
I think he gave her his tranquilizers and either she woke up while he was SAing her and fought him so he strangled her or she was unresponsive because he OD,d her…whether she was still alive or not in car , perhaps not responding, would depend on when he dumped her computer , etc. He could have just let people think she tried to off herself but his drugs and body fluids would have been found in her .
I really wish they had surveillance of Stephan and Maddie getting in the car that am. I wonder if it was typical for her to wear socks with her crocs🤔That could tell us if she dressed herself. Wasn’t she found with white socks on?
One crock was left at the house the other on her foot, since when would she get in a car alive only wearing one crock!? She was dead or near dead when he put her in the car!
@@joanbaczek2575Unconscious at the very least. Possibly already dead.
@@joanbaczek2575one croc was in the trash and one in the house.
👼❤️👼
Wasn’t she asphyxiated though? Asphyxia can delay rigor mortis because it slows the body's cooling process after death. I’m not sure how long it can delay it, but that needs to be added into the equation