In my experience, when switching to Barnes coppers after shooting standard jacketed bullets it takes about 3 three shot groups to get down to minimum group size.Some rifles of mine ,with jacketed bullets in this case, shot best with a clean bore and groups grew with each consecutive one. All barrels are individuals .
So you scrubbed your barrel down to eliminate any alloys different to the bullet you were planning to shoot and then the first thing you did with it was fouled it with 2 bullets made of a different alloy than the ones you were planning to shoot groups with? The whole idea of the process is to scrub down to metal and not introduce any other alloy or bullet composition than the one you are planning to shoot. Some of us have been doing this with .22 for ages when swapping between plated and match grade lead bullets. Keep up the good videos dude!
I clean my barrels after every outing and always get sub-MOA accuracy with no POI shift. As one well-known competition shooter likes to say, "I can keep my barrels consistently clean. What I can't do is keep them consistently dirty."
Well Im working.on an M77 in 30 06. Its been a PITA.. Im really leaning towards a new stock. And floating the barrel. Its ok for hunting but not up to My standards as far as the groups Im looking for.
On an M77, free floating the barrel can improve the accuracy. There is a chance it won’t as well. It’s a gamble on those guns. But if you have tried many other things it’s worth trying.
I tried this in a few rifles about 20 years ago. I heard it as well. Here's what I noticed. It ONLY helped in barrels that were prone to copper fouling. For example, Each Hart barrel I have and have had seemed to attract copper quite a bit. The testing you mention did help in those barrels. The ONE Broughton barrel I have in 270 Win just never copper fouled, thus, there was no change. Moreover, all of my cut-rifled barrels just don't copper foul much at all and switching all kinds of bullets made no difference Just a few weeks ago I shot my twin 308s with cut-rifled Benchmark barrels using a bunch of handloads I have on hand for a 308 I sold. This included 150 Nosler btips, Barnes 130 TTSX, Hornady 168 ELDMs, and 60 rounds of factory Federal GM 168 Sierras split evenly in both rifles just to get some rounds down them and get more brass. One of the Benchmark barrels attracted more copper than the other upon borescope video when I got home. But, both 308s shot all ammo extremely well and alternating all the ammo randomly didn't affect accuracy. In short, I think it really depends on the bore finish and quality
It’s been a known fact for years for us guys who hunt with copper bullets and reload😳 my Sako goes from a 1/2” inch to a 3” inch group in my model 85 and then back again after cleaning
Cleaning down to bare steel gives you a starting point. If you’re riffle shot great brand new , than it probably liked shooting that particular load with a clean barrel. In the words of Eric Cortina, it’s easier to keep your barrel consistently clean than to keep it constantly dirty. If you shoot with a clean barrel and find a decent load with a clean barrel, it’s easier to return to the conditions of a clean barrel than to try to guess a when your barrel is it the right amount of dirty when it starts shooting good. Ether way we are all just trying to take educated guesses. Not all barrels are the same
I like the idea of seating at three different depths as a test. I'm kind of at that point with one of my rifles...I've wasted a bunch of components trying to improve upon the 1-MOA overall average I'm getting from it. I've tried several different powders, primers, and bullets and can't seem to consistently do better than that. The only thing I haven't tried yet is changing the seating depth. Your struggles kind of gave me the push I needed lol...
Drink that cup of good looking strong coffee man, it’s getting cold. Good video. I think every gun(barrel) is different in that regard. Part of the “fun” is figuring out what it likes.
Ask Erik Cortina quote ( Your most accruate shot is with a clean cold barrel you will loose accuracy with each subsequent shot, how much depends upon the barrel, Hornady has 500 test rifles, you must clean your rifles,period. With the newer copper hunting bullets, your barrel will foul much faster. You must clean it. Pressure increases in your barrel after each shot.Don't clean your rifle, I don't care. I use a borescope and I keep my barrels clean. I never needed a fouling shot and I will never leave an expensive rifle with corrosive agents in the barrel. This is a much debated subject. To each their own.
Have you checked the following: action screws, bases, rings, crown of the barrel, bolt face clean and is the firing pin being obstucted dirt, rust. Is the throat gone. Just asking as ive had all the above be an issue of sorts over the years. Gd luck to ya.
I had a Savage that wouldn't shoot until it had some copper fouling in it. After cleaning it one time I looked into the barrel. Horrible tooling marks. It shot the same load like garbage. After I fouled it up a bit, the groups went back down to 3/4". Told my buddy about that after I sold it to him. It was very surprising to me. But it shoots great while fouled.
The button rifling savage uses leaves lots of tooling marks in the barrel. I have 2 savages. Both with bad tooling marks. 1 shoots fantastic the other is trash.
The stainless version of the same rifle I had was great. The rifling was smooth and shiny. They were the Savage 11 trophy hunter xp in 308(bad tooling marks) and the model 116 trophy hunter xp in 30-06(no tooling marks). Both shot great.
I’m not sure if it’s true or not but I built a rifle with a new barrel and it copper fouled up after shooting it even though I was cleaning it some I wasn’t taking the time to get the copper fouled out and it built up and the group got bigger till I quit and cleaned the barrel really good now I need to try it again
Have you tried glass bedding? I have a m77 guide gun in 30-06, and the Barnes 130 ttsx shot the best groups(.68" groups@100) in comparison to other bullets.
I don't believe your doing an apples to apples comparison here. Backfire took a known accurate rifle/ammo combo to test this theory. Your working with a rifle that no one knows what it likes for ammo. No evidence here proving/disproving there theory. Only that this Ruger doesn't like that bullet and the Hornady SST.
As far as sample size, doesn't matter. Either the theory works or it doesn't. You don't need large sample sizes to gather evidence. That's just wasting more components, time, energy, and barrel life. Candidly I'm at my wits end hearing the phrase, "not statistically significant." Many, if not most of us, are loading for hunting, not competing. I'm not tossing money down the toilet just to show someone else what they deem is statistically significant. Bla bla bla
Also, I believe guys doing this “statistically significant” crap for hunting rifles are doing it wrong 99% of the time anyway. Shooting a 10 shot group on a hot barrel is worthless for hunters. Repeatable cold barrel one shot groups make way more sense, which you don’t see anyone do.
Did you use a borescope to confirm the condition of the barrel? Either your reloading component combination is not working or the barrel is trash. Load to magazine length, start 2 grains below max and shoot a 10 shot string going up .2 grains each shot. Find your velocity nodes and then test those. Don't bother chasing seating depth until you find your powder charge. My money is on the barrel being garbage. Backfire is just greasy late night shopping channel salesman vibe. I won't waste my time watching his stuff
In my experience, when switching to Barnes coppers after shooting standard jacketed bullets it takes about 3 three shot groups to get down to minimum group size.Some rifles of mine ,with jacketed bullets in this case, shot best with a clean bore and groups grew with each consecutive one. All barrels are individuals .
So you scrubbed your barrel down to eliminate any alloys different to the bullet you were planning to shoot and then the first thing you did with it was fouled it with 2 bullets made of a different alloy than the ones you were planning to shoot groups with?
The whole idea of the process is to scrub down to metal and not introduce any other alloy or bullet composition than the one you are planning to shoot.
Some of us have been doing this with .22 for ages when swapping between plated and match grade lead bullets.
Keep up the good videos dude!
Yeah the lead core bullet fouling was a booboo for this test, potentially.
I clean my barrels after every outing and always get sub-MOA accuracy with no POI shift. As one well-known competition shooter likes to say, "I can keep my barrels consistently clean. What I can't do is keep them consistently dirty."
Well Im working.on an M77 in 30 06. Its been a PITA.. Im really leaning towards a new stock. And floating the barrel. Its ok for hunting but not up to My standards as far as the groups Im looking for.
On an M77, free floating the barrel can improve the accuracy. There is a chance it won’t as well. It’s a gamble on those guns. But if you have tried many other things it’s worth trying.
I tried this in a few rifles about 20 years ago. I heard it as well. Here's what I noticed. It ONLY helped in barrels that were prone to copper fouling. For example, Each Hart barrel I have and have had seemed to attract copper quite a bit. The testing you mention did help in those barrels. The ONE Broughton barrel I have in 270 Win just never copper fouled, thus, there was no change. Moreover, all of my cut-rifled barrels just don't copper foul much at all and switching all kinds of bullets made no difference
Just a few weeks ago I shot my twin 308s with cut-rifled Benchmark barrels using a bunch of handloads I have on hand for a 308 I sold. This included 150 Nosler btips, Barnes 130 TTSX, Hornady 168 ELDMs, and 60 rounds of factory Federal GM 168 Sierras split evenly in both rifles just to get some rounds down them and get more brass. One of the Benchmark barrels attracted more copper than the other upon borescope video when I got home. But, both 308s shot all ammo extremely well and alternating all the ammo randomly didn't affect accuracy. In short, I think it really depends on the bore finish and quality
It’s been a known fact for years for us guys who hunt with copper bullets and reload😳 my Sako goes from a 1/2” inch to a 3” inch group in my model 85 and then back again after cleaning
Cleaning down to bare steel gives you a starting point. If you’re riffle shot great brand new , than it probably liked shooting that particular load with a clean barrel. In the words of Eric Cortina, it’s easier to keep your barrel consistently clean than to keep it constantly dirty. If you shoot with a clean barrel and find a decent load with a clean barrel, it’s easier to return to the conditions of a clean barrel than to try to guess a when your barrel is it the right amount of dirty when it starts shooting good. Ether way we are all just trying to take educated guesses. Not all barrels are the same
Never shot McGuire but Barnes bullets like to jump! I’m jumping 130ttsx in 308 about .120 and they shoot great! Why not free float that barrel?
I like the idea of seating at three different depths as a test. I'm kind of at that point with one of my rifles...I've wasted a bunch of components trying to improve upon the 1-MOA overall average I'm getting from it. I've tried several different powders, primers, and bullets and can't seem to consistently do better than that. The only thing I haven't tried yet is changing the seating depth. Your struggles kind of gave me the push I needed lol...
I tried this experiment with my .280 Rem this week. Going to test it one more time, but my results were unchanged from before cleaning it.
Drink that cup of good looking strong coffee man, it’s getting cold. Good video. I think every gun(barrel) is different in that regard. Part of the “fun” is figuring out what it likes.
Ask Erik Cortina quote ( Your most accruate shot is with a clean cold barrel you will loose accuracy with each subsequent shot, how much depends upon the barrel, Hornady has 500 test rifles, you must clean your rifles,period. With the newer copper hunting bullets, your barrel will foul much faster. You must clean it. Pressure increases in your barrel after each shot.Don't clean your rifle, I don't care. I use a borescope and I keep my barrels clean. I never needed a fouling shot and I will never leave an expensive rifle with corrosive agents in the barrel. This is a much debated subject. To each their own.
Most copper likes lot of jump from what I found 😊
Want a great challenge? Im currently attempting it myself. 1in group(s) from a Winchester Model 88. Lol mine is a .243. Yup a lever gun
Sierra 85gr Spitzer with 4064 that i loaded for few years back. Same m88 in .243. Don't remember charge off hand.
Have you checked the following: action screws, bases, rings, crown of the barrel, bolt face clean and is the firing pin being obstucted dirt, rust. Is the throat gone.
Just asking as ive had all the above be an issue of sorts over the years.
Gd luck to ya.
I had a Savage that wouldn't shoot until it had some copper fouling in it. After cleaning it one time I looked into the barrel. Horrible tooling marks. It shot the same load like garbage. After I fouled it up a bit, the groups went back down to 3/4". Told my buddy about that after I sold it to him. It was very surprising to me. But it shoots great while fouled.
The button rifling savage uses leaves lots of tooling marks in the barrel. I have 2 savages. Both with bad tooling marks. 1 shoots fantastic the other is trash.
The stainless version of the same rifle I had was great. The rifling was smooth and shiny. They were the Savage 11 trophy hunter xp in 308(bad tooling marks) and the model 116 trophy hunter xp in 30-06(no tooling marks). Both shot great.
Yep. Not pretty but mine will put down grps under .5 consistently.
Thank you. Appreciate the experience.
If you don’t clean your barrel between shots are you even a sniper?
117 hammer hunter. 57.5 4831sc. 270 win load to start. Hammer bullets seem more accurate.
I’m not sure if it’s true or not but I built a rifle with a new barrel and it copper fouled up after shooting it even though I was cleaning it some I wasn’t taking the time to get the copper fouled out and it built up and the group got bigger till I quit and cleaned the barrel really good now I need to try it again
Have you tried glass bedding?
I have a m77 guide gun in 30-06, and the Barnes 130 ttsx shot the best groups(.68" groups@100) in comparison to other bullets.
No and it’s not my gun so it’ll be up to owner on what he wants to do with it…that’s definitely an option though!
all the groupings are just horrible, nothing conclusive for me
I don't believe your doing an apples to apples comparison here. Backfire took a known accurate rifle/ammo combo to test this theory. Your working with a rifle that no one knows what it likes for ammo. No evidence here proving/disproving there theory. Only that this Ruger doesn't like that bullet and the Hornady SST.
As far as sample size, doesn't matter. Either the theory works or it doesn't. You don't need large sample sizes to gather evidence. That's just wasting more components, time, energy, and barrel life. Candidly I'm at my wits end hearing the phrase, "not statistically significant." Many, if not most of us, are loading for hunting, not competing. I'm not tossing money down the toilet just to show someone else what they deem is statistically significant. Bla bla bla
Spot on
I’m with you 100% as far as a rifle’s accuracy is concerned. I’m an “-ologist”, and so I guess maybe that makes me a not very good one.
Also, I believe guys doing this “statistically significant” crap for hunting rifles are doing it wrong 99% of the time anyway. Shooting a 10 shot group on a hot barrel is worthless for hunters. Repeatable cold barrel one shot groups make way more sense, which you don’t see anyone do.
@@phild9813 If you happen to be an addictionologist, I need your help. I'm addicted to gun broker and have spent waaaaaay too much money😁
Why don't you just free float the barrel???
It’s not my gun so that’ll be up to the owner
I was hoping it would work for you, huntable gun but not what you want
Did you use a borescope to confirm the condition of the barrel? Either your reloading component combination is not working or the barrel is trash. Load to magazine length, start 2 grains below max and shoot a 10 shot string going up .2 grains each shot. Find your velocity nodes and then test those. Don't bother chasing seating depth until you find your powder charge. My money is on the barrel being garbage. Backfire is just greasy late night shopping channel salesman vibe. I won't waste my time watching his stuff
group size not big enough :)
What a bunch of SILLY UA-camr rumor mill bullsh*t.
But yet you watched and commented. Lol
🙏😝❤️🩹❤️🩹😝🙏