No Brakes! Big Crash with the K-Swapped Suzuki Swift
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- Опубліковано 16 жов 2024
- Our track test with the K-Swapped Suzuki Swift doesn't go as planned as we have a big crash when the brakes fail in the fastest corner at Toronto Motorsports Park!
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That Heel toe camera angle was pretty sweet
Great job in keeping it off the dirt wall. Just a thought, Kevin may want to check the actual cap to the brake fluid reservoir to make sure it breathes and does not vapor lock and keep fluid from actually pouring down to the master cyl. Seems like when running hard and moving a lot of fluid you have a problem, when the car sits it may have time to flow back into the master cyl and all is good. Good luck guys.
Fluid boiled.
200whp is about where you want to be in a superleggera Fwd. Some people say 300 which I think is OK in sedan but not a hatch.
Just my personal opinion.
LOVE the noise that makes!
agreed, does look a lot like boiled brake fluid.
962RACER can we up this comment? Sounds like a fluid problem
.
We don't think it was boiled fluid, as the pedal wasn't getting longer in the previous corners and that's typically how boiled fluid starts to show up. Having spoken to several brake engineers with motorsports backgrounds, we believe the small front calipers overheated and started to twist under load, losing the seal. The car is getting bigger front calipers, pads with more swept area, and thicker rotors for more thermal capacity.
nah it's boiled fluid, I've had boiled fluid happen on track in my S2000, definitely that, if one caliper was acting weird you'd still get braking from the other corners, not no feel. yes boiled fluid can happen that quickly because I've felt that happen myself
Love the pedalbox cam.
Yeah and you can still see the steering inputs watching the column haha
That could have been a lot worse!
Man you handled that like a boss, it's a good thing there wasn't a tire wall or anything right there.
Nice work keeping control of the car man! Made my heart flutter just watching that. I thought you were going to hit the wall. Gave me flashbacks to losing brakes in my old CR-X when I was exiting a highway. I just down-shifted my ass off and pulled the parking brake! Stopped about two inches from the back bumper of the guy sitting at the stop sign, oblivious to me in his rear view. Glad you are OK and there wasn't too much damage to the Swift!
bit of heel and toe action makes me happy
Glad you're okay Dave. That thing looks so damn fun.
i had a OH SHIT moment for you im glad you're ok. impressive how calm you stayed!
Poop just came out when i watched the brake failure....the pedal cam is sweet! Love the noises the swift makes
That thing needs a shorter ratio steering rack too...
Ya that would be a nice addition, agreed.
that's in the works!
Benjamin Mährlein I was thinking the same thing
I am glad that you are ok after that. I am glad that you had a camera on your feet to show what happened to the brake peddle. Sometimes in the heat of the moment you think you are doing something and in reality you are not.
Just subscribed even though I've watched your videos for 2 years now. The fact that you even show your bad moments just make you guys awesome ! Glad you are ok. Greetings from Dominican Republic.
Thanks! Glad you like the content! And we always try to get away to the Dominican come winter, you've got that great weather :)
Loved the vid Dave, Kevin's a great guy. Glad to hear everything's ok with the car. Excited to see the Swift out and about next year.
I am digging the new telemetry and pedal cam!
Good job Dave for not freaking out and trying to make that turn at high speed...
Finally! A new K-Swift video.
Glad you're ok, had my brakes fail on the street, and that scared the shit out of me! Remember, power words are applicable here as well.
Future reference: your driving a car you have never driven before and you don't know the build quality since u didn't build it yourself . It is a common method to pump the brakes just a little on that straight away just to see if the brakes are working, it's more of a safety precaution in this situation. This is advice I was given by ppl who had this experience so at least u will recognize the brakes are shot a lot earlier rather then later.
Wow glad you're okay Dave and the car is fine too. That escape space at the end of the main straight really did help too.
When I'm a bit paranoïd, sometimes I do check the brakes half way down the big straight, just to see if there's anybody at the end of the pedal (just a quick lick with the left foot).
Not funny it happened to me too and if there's anything in a car that I want to trust 100% all the time is the brakes.
Time to bleed the fluid on the little swift :D, because that thing flies !
Not the first time I've seen a car go off on turn one at Cayuga. This summer I seen a mustang lose its breaks after sitting in the pits too cool off for half an hour, then go back out on the track and lose brakes right away and hit the apex on turn one, flipped end over end twice and then proceed to roll the car. Open track day, no helmets or safety gear and two passengers. Orange helicopter. That day we were testing my buddies rhd gc8 and ran a 1:18.36
Sweet track car, hope to get my prelude done and get my track license here within the next few yrs
We had something similar happen in turn 1 at Watkins Glen in our Ek Civic. The brakes were 100% fine then went to 0% in a flash. The fluid didn't boil but what had happened was the extream heat caused the piston to seal fit to fail and puke out some fluid; the car made it back to the pits and we called the race at that point. In the garage that night we couldn't get the seal to fail no matter how hard we pressed the brakes and the only thing to lead us to that conclusion was some brake fluid on the inside of the rim and some on the back of the brake pad on the piston side.
We replaced the caliper and installed a new set of DTC60's and ran the next day without issue. I think the added meat on the fresh pads kept the piston cooler? Just a guess..
Maybe something similar happened here?
Yes, we think this failure was very similar to yours. Several experts we've consulted with agree it was probably a case of overheated calipers losing the seal. We're moving to a larger caliper with more pad area and thicker rotors that should absorb and shed the heat much better and give us better overall performance too.
Sounds like a good plan, as you know, brakes are the second thing to get 100% sorted on a car like this, right after proper safety devices.
wow, did your stomach drop to the floor at the same time you foot hit the brake pedal to the floor and stopping was a no show at the party?
Bruh my life would be flashing before my eyes. Where I live the mountains are very steep and a failed brake line would be death.
ya one time i went through this s curve by my house. i came around the second corner to a straight and up about a quarter mile ahead a car was on a side street. the lady had plenty time to pull out or the amount of time she waited could have waited till i went past her to pull out. but she did it right as i got a few cars from her, i had to slam the breaks and slow down. well i usually dont drive with road rage etc, i was in my early twenties. but i got up on her and rode her butt, she decides to slow down and turn at the next side street and i slammed the breaks again and a line popped and the pedal went to the floor and lucky i pulled the e break and the shoulder was big enough to drive on and i missed her. really annoying since she waited to pull out in front of me and just to take the nest turn. just thought about this now, maybe she wanted me to hit her. probably not, but i know people that do that so they can try to get paid, sad cause one guy i know that use to do it, i dont know if he still does. but hes supposed to be a christian and that love for money is to much for him i guess. but ya even though it was 40 mph road and we probably werent doing that, my heart still dropped cause i didnt want to hit her on the account i was being stupid after she did. cause 2 wrongs dont make a right.
@@Mr009mm 😈, ⏬
The christian lady with a ugly car,
With a lots of Money, but poor ...!!!
WTF❓ Maan, pass that shiit 🚬
FYI 300M steel needs to be inspected for corrosion if the coating is damaged. C17 MLG axles are made of the same material and that was an issue when I worked on them. Nice car!
When you had no brakes, pop it in gear at least to slow the car down. I'd rather a stripped gear than a car in the wall or dirt.
Suzuki Swift Club Australia its also hard to think about what to do when it happens with no warning
It's happened to me. I popped it in third, while tapping the brake, then popped it in second, slowed down enough to take the corner with zero brakes.
Also watch some race car driver videos footwork, some drivers left foot tap the brakes to ensure they have brakes midway down the straight to ensure they can stop. It's quite funny to see this. Especially on longer straights with little run off.
Suzuki Swift Club Australia i was comin up to i give way in my civic at 140 lost breaks just rammed the bitch into 1st that slowed it dwn lol
Can u send me link to one of those videos
Good to see you didn't get hurt
"Let's give it a rip" - [03:00]
A-ha! Dave Pratte is a man of his word. xD
Thankfully it was not a R.I.P. for the Swift.
Great to see nothing bad happened. Happy Thanksgiving speed Academy
Glad you got out of it safe and sound Dave! Convenient it was on the straight going 170mph. Hopefully you didn't soil and stain your nice white overalls too much.
You mentioned the calipers twisting in reply to another comment. I couldn't find (with a google quick search) what you meant exactly.
Would you care to elaborate a bit more?
Looking forward to the next K-swift video.
aliens did it!
Wow! Good save Dave, cool little Swift. Cheers
Dam Dave good to see your safe.
MADD props for a badass build
You could dismantle the master to see if there are any signs of seal lip damage or lifting from the bore surface.
that was some fancy footwork you was doing there
thats why you should always give'm a nice tap on the straights just to see if their there. nice build glad you had plenty of run off.
holy moly I think Dave may have just lost a couple of years off his life from that scare lol... Well done chap for not completely stuffing it!!
Glad you had so much room there, glad to see you're ok! You mentioned using 3rd in places you usually wouldn't, couldn't that be caused by the upgrade to the suspension? Your feeling of different gearing could be caused by the car carrying more speed through the previous corner.
it sounds insane. love the k series.
Nice video as always. It would be cool to see a little graph with all of your cars and their lap times. Maybe even their lap times at various stages of modding. I'm curious how they stack up against one another, but I can't remember their respective times.
At least you have the footcam to prove you really did brake on time!! Pretty scary!
Scary moment at the end of a straight. Glad there was some runoff area. Sounds like a classic fluid boil. Came out of a couple of hard braking corners to a straight, pressure release on the fluid, it boils and then nothing at the next application. After some cool down it appears like nothing is wrong. What type of fluid and how old is it?
I thought I would miss the sound of the old motor. But no, it sounds even better with that K. Maybe it's time for me to build a K Fit? I doubt I could afford it, but hey, a man can dream, right?
is the master cylinder covered with a heat shield? it could be that because it's not shielded the hydraulic fluid started to boil and have air bubbles. not a brake expert, but that's my 2 cents
Scary losing brakes like that. Glad all are safe. Maybe it was the illusive "ice mode" some cars have. Any chance of lap footage with footwell picture in picture like in best motoring? Pretty please. Thx guys!
I swear I don't always come this early...
Wow, that's some brutal angle on the CV joints, no wonder you broke an axle.
that shot was at full lock, car never see's that on track.
Had this happen to me - multiple times - in a '96 Dodge Avenger I used to have, and out on county backroads each time. Of course, the dealer could also never find any cause, and it was ultimately attributed to "a bubble in the brake line".
Scared the hell outta' me, fo' sho' !!
Brake fluid boiled? Same thing happened to me out on track. Luckily I ended up in a canola field with no damage.
that my friend is brake fade
it can happen when yours going down straights at high speed and you slam on the brake there is not enough cooling
and when your often on your brakes hard it will get weak and fail
Glad you are ok, car looks ok also.
Boiling brake fluid is not a fun experience...happened to me after I got a pass from a Mustang after sitting behind him for 3 laps. Boiled my brakes because I didn't know how to conserve brakes while keeping pressure on the driver in front.
And this is why you always ALWAYS feel the brake pedal halfway through your final straight. EVERY SINGLE LAP. Watch Keichi do it.
please let us know solution. serious learning opportunity here. awesome video, glad you're OK. scary stuff
Man this little car rips would love to drive it
Break problems
When I watch the video the first time I felt that you have to much pedal moment to be a race car normally when I check the brakes I don't allow more then 10mm from pressure point in move on the pedal .
I think this is a classic failure off bad break fluid ( water in the brake fluid) you don't feel it with cold breaks but when's temperature go upon 90 - 110 Celsius the water starts to expands enormously and pushes the brake fluid! And you compress the gases and now the brake pedal is dead.
Best regards Tobi ( race car engineer in Europe)
Torbjörn Krondahl * brakes
Torbjörn Krondahl race car engineer that can't spell brakes. Remind me not to drive any of the cars you built
maybe you need to downshift more often in breaking phases until you install a proper track break kit, in the video we can see some long breaking without downshift which is a break killer on track
raph151515 *brake
Maybe heat soak messed up the master cylinder and same with the calipers. Just an idea but wow that's scary. Never had brakes fail me but I always use BBK for that reason XD always have something to stop a brick uk?
I'd have been going down that box like a bastard too!! Good save though, and what a car!
First off let me say I love this build, with that out of the way the brake thing scares me, I have wilwoods on my car...
Thanks for the love. The calipers were roasted and are undersized for the power of the car now, the condition only occurred when driving to the max limit and temperatures became too much to handle for the calipers.
Does it have steel brake lines? Failure in the teflon core is hard to see
were the pads new? if so could have been green fade...
how much faster then the g13b was the k20 we had along conversation about if it would be faster or the power would just turn into wheel spin
Perhaps master cylinder? My dads motorbike had an issue similar when the brakes would intermittently lose a ton of pressure. Turned out to be a faulty master.
Check the lines internally...also vibration of lines or cylinders
Are they at Cayuga Raceway ?
Yes sir! We're there often
did you boil the break fluid ??
"Come down the gears bubs" Rickys voice. Not sure if it was boiling fluid. Surly they have Dot 5 in it plus he only did one lap. Could be the master cylinder failing?
We don't think it was boiled fluid either, as the pedal wasn't getting longer in the previous corners and that's typically how boiled fluid starts to show up. Having spoken to several brake engineers with motorsports backgrounds, we believe the small front calipers overheated and started to twist under load, losing the seal. The car is getting bigger front calipers, pads with more swept area, and thicker rotors for more thermal capacity.
The weirdest thing about it to me was the fact that it was at the end of the front straight. Any temperature related problem that was not present into the last turn, shouldn't have come up during the straight. If anything it should have gotten worst up to the last corner. Everything should have gotten cool again down the front straight. If the caliper seals went even temporarily you would have found fluid on the outside of the piston and you'd be down a pretty significant amount in the reservoir from all that pumping. It almost seems like there was a temporary addition to the system volume, like a kinked line got unkinked from the heat... or under high Gs into the last turn, the Gs pulled the fluid away from the MC in the reservoir and it sucked air as you released the brakes? Then as you drove back or later in the paddock it bled itself out again...
Kieran Whoriskey break line leak?
i was thinking similar, end of the straight seem unlikly temp. it did look like the break peddel pumped up once the car stopped, its hard in the moment but it always worth trying to pump it up (i did see 3pumps from initiial failure), does the car have any cooling ducts direcet to the front discs ?
Guys
It was pad knock back
That car sounds like it's a riot to drive. I hope you can figure out the brakes!
Change the brake fluid kind it boils hot and loses viscosity remember the heat at the engine bay and excesive braking ..
need to put some cooling fans in there somewhere lol looks tight.
pls keep us updated what the issue was, scary stuff
is this track near Toronto?
i dont know exatcly but some racing drivers tap the brakes after long straights bucause high level of vibration some brake parts loose to ability of transfer that brake force. maybe thats the problem 🤔
the dabbing of the brakes before a full brake is usually to squeeze the pads close to the rotor as the long straight can cause the pad/piston to have a bit of a gap. in the case of a super long straight like at fuji speedway it may also help in bringing the pad up to temperature before a really heavy brake zone, i wonder. this technique is done with the throttle still fully engaged and a light touch on the brake.
Natural abs/Anti skid
I think there is too much water in the brake fluid. This is a clear symptom of vaporlock. The water in the fluid starts to vaporize and the brakefluid wont compress anymore.
Shirt reads: ha chi ro ku
You're welcome.
It could possibly be wheel bearing wearing out and heating the rotor/caliper/fluid and considering it then disappeared after the car sat and coo,l it points towards it
brake like to close to the header maybe? just over headed the line? hmmm who knows.
Damn, that was scary just from watching.
Can a k20 fits inside the 2014 suzuki swift
You might have a talk with Tilton. They make high quality stuff and might have some clue as to what happened. The best I can think of is that an air bubble got stuck right at the pedal (at the master) and eventually migrated away. I seriously doubt that would cause this issue, but we're all grasping at straws here.
are keemstars brother?
That berm would've left a mark. 😬
brake heat. water in the fluid?
This car is too cool
I know these gentlemen know what their doing but I would pay attention to the brake line and its proximity to the exhaust piping
wtf the G force thing is backwards for the left and right?!?! pissing me off bad
your profile pic is creepin me out...
yeah that profile is creepy what the heck pal
do a barrel roll!
I know you don't believe it, but you boiled that brake fluid. the brakes came back after the temp fell. bleed them, if you get any air they boiled.
This car is so cool
maybe the brake fluid is boiling , also bleed them could have air innthe system.
bubbles in a line heat makes them expand.
it you find some bubbles?
manslaughter charges lol
not bled properly or not using DOT5. prob using a super DOT4 or some other. or they using a std swift master with bigger brakes. it didnt have enough pressure in it.
did you not see the Tilton pedal box in the foot shot? not swift MC. and fluid boil would not likely show up at the end of a long straight. They have consulted with brake engineers and the consensus is that the under sized calipers warped and lost seal, they are upgrading.
It's a good thing PT wasn't driving because he would have been going much faster…
kidddding kidding :hug:
Nice work with the save.
kind of looks like you locked them up since you were turning the wheel and still going straight.... even if they went to the floor.. if you let off the brakes a car will turn...
Hahahahahah that’s dude was pist !!
Could an air pocket have caused that?
It did lose speed pretty fast from 170-0 for a car with no brakes I mean you scrubbed off some speed turning but I mean it does look like it had a tiny bit left. And I mean the gps readout of the speedo must have a bit of a delay so I am sure u went like 180 or so.
Agreed, I think there was a bit of braking happening but in the seat it felt like none.
Wow! Nice! Holy crap!!