"Zero RPM" Alternator for Ford Model A Cars is HERE!
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- Опубліковано 6 жов 2024
- Thanks to Michael Eisenbise and Luke Hagemeister for developing the battery charging device we have been needing! Luke's website- heielectric.com/ Stuff like this helps in our quest to make Model As cool again!
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For those who are CONSTANTLY on my case about calling it a "motor", here is the definition of the word motor-
mo·tor /ˈmōdər/ noun
"A machine, especially one powered by electricity or internal combustion, that supplies motive power for a vehicle or for some other device with moving parts."
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HEI just posted a direct link for these- heielectric.com/shop/alternators/model-a-6v-low-rpm-one-wire-alternator/
Paul, Thank you for sharing a video featuring our *LOW RPM alternator* . We apologize for not having this up on the website earlier, but should be good to go from here. Oh, by the way, we did utilize your video within our listing, hope that was ok? If not just let me know and I will remove it ASAP. Awesome video by the way. We love old cars, especially 6V. If you ever run into an issues with anything 6V or even 12V, please give us a call. Again, thank you for taking the time to show how this alternator works.
It is good to see that there are a few modern things that can be useful on a Model A Ford such as a 6 volt positive ground alternator instead of the original style DC generator. The main problem with the original DC generator on a lot of classic cars was that at engine idle speed there would be no battery charging. The engine RPM would need to be increased to get any battery charging.
Thanks Paul for a cool video! I have a running car today because of Michael Eisenbise! I call him my Model A sensei and he has become a dear friend. Yes please keep him in your prayers. Certainly a very brilliant & gentle soul. I have an alternator similar to this that he built and I proudly run that on my car. Thanks again Paul for your video and for mentioning Michael!
Thanks Jeremy. Yep, he is one of the good ones!
Thank you for the video, Paul. I’ll keep this alternator in mind for the next time one of my antique John Deeres or Farmalls need a replacement of the generator.
I didn't like the look of a modern alternator so I went to Summit racing and bought a power master alternator for the model A it wasn't cheep but looks just like the original A generator .
Aluminum alternators are ugly and you can easily see them through the hood vents. Power Master is the way to go. I even snuck one through Touring Class judging.
At twice the cost for that powermaster thing, some of us po folk prefer to just spray paint an alternator black and ignore it.
Thanks again, Paul for the terrific videos. Now that I have my generator torn apart, it seems like the perfect time to buy an alternator!
Ahh!! Yep.
My model A is completely stock with the exception of an air cleaner I put on back in the late 60"s because we lived on a dirt road, which I still do. Never saw the need to change anything. And I still use my Craftsman tools.
Right on man!
I have a 6V, negative ground one-wire alternator on my 1924 Model T Ford (Model Ts came from the factory as negative ground). It has a stock Model T gear on it so that it bolts on to the engine front cover just like the stock generator. It works well, but it does require that the engine be sped up at first to energize the field coils, like you showed in your video. I didn't realize that it also puts a small drain on the battery when the car is shut off, I'll have to watch for that. :)
Nice! Yes, Model Ts have negative grounds, and that is fine, just order with neg ground. How many smiles per gallon do you get? Hahaa!! My excitement in this video was real, I didn't expect much but was very surprised.
Very exciting to see an improvement in a vehicle that is difficult to improve on, very difficult. I could almost see a twinkle in Gandalf's headlights when you were finished.
the reason they did not charge at idle all the time was so the battery would not be cooked , older delivery trucks like milk trucks had the generator voltage regulator set to charge at idle
I’ll be converting my ‘30 Tudor over to 6V generator this spring! Thanks for all you do Paul & Model T. We truly look forward to your videos and appreciate your shared knowledge! Lenny & Annie from NY
Thank you!
Great to see an improvement on the GM 10si alternator, unfortunately it still looks like a modern alternator. I think I will stick with my Power Master PowerGEN that charges at idle and LOOKS original.
Prayers for Michael. And thank you for another great, knowledge filled video. ~ Chuck
THANK YOU for pointing out that you need to rev the engine to "activate" the 6V converted alternator. I was about to tear mine down and replace the electronics because it was "obviously" defective since it worked sometimes, but not always. Now it works perfectly!🙂
Haha! Good job!
Paul, coffee and a new video on a cold Saturday morning, perfect. But I’m having to watch these away from my wife, she sees me buying more parts after your videos. All good and necessary items. Question for this item, can they make make one that looks original, or does any one make a period correct generator that will work like this?
I don't think they have plans to make a generator look alike. Someone already makes those, but even they don't really look like a generator. They are also ridiculously expensive. These are affordable and if you paint it black before installing, you won't notice it.
Looks and sounds like a great fix for Gandolf the Green, that is amazing. Thanks Michael, hope you get better, and thank you Paul, have a great weekend!
I don't have an alternator, let alone a Model A but I am like a dog watching a three cup and ball trick.....memorized. Many thanks
An alternator is charging as soon a sit spins, but needs higher rpm to keep up with the charging load. Old tractors and Models... ran at a lower rpm and needed a little rpm to charge right or get past the resistors to start charging. You can take a Chevy one wire and install a smaller pulley on it so it spins up sooner. These smaller pulleys are common through the tractor rebuilder parts and can order one through them.
Update - Paul the vendor HEI was waiting for your critique before he started manufacturing these. The vendor and I wanted you to be fair and provide any negative feedback along with any positive feedback. This was posted on a Saturday. Immediately after it was posted, he received a lot of inquiries and phone calls. He is swamped with requests. Glad you liked it. Just to be clear, neither Paul nor I is receiving a penny from the vendor because of this video and my research. I did this to help the Model A community and I wanted to get Paul's great feedback. Paul also did it to help the Model A community. There was one alternator made. I used it to provide feedback and to add the modifications as needed. I test drove this alternator. I sold it to Paul for my actual cost of purchase and shipping. Paul reimbursed me more than I was going to charge him. This was only offered in silver color. After receiving Paul's feedback, he is now offering them in black. He also has these listed on his page. Paul, thanks for all you do for the Model A community.
Thanks Michael. Just checked them out on the website. Unfortunately, my tight budget won't let me go 300 to 340 for this yet. I just spent all my Christmas money on focused beam led headlights! Someday, maybe.
@@kdog622Barrentine thanks for responding. Paul and I are doing and alternator evaluation. We hope to have these evaluations published in the MAFCA Restorer Magazine. We have been approved to present a seminar at Model A Days at the Gilmore Museum in September about our alternator study. This might not be the best alternative out there. Stay tuned.
We are also praying for Mr Eisenbise. Thank you for asking for prayer for our dear mutual friend! Great video as always! David Gillespie, South Carolina
Thanks so much! God bless
Great job on the alternator, thanks for the video, Mike
Thanks Mike!
🙏🏼🙏🏼Aloha Paul & Tina,
I hope the bad weather has passed and all is good with the both of you.
I was getting ready for work this morning and decided to see if you made a video on Stella. 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
Nice alternator and she sounds good too! She’s getting closer to finishing🙌🏽🙌🏽
I love your videos and when I meet people who are in need of helpful tips I turn them on to your videos.
A hui hou, Malama Pono
Thanks for letting me use your car for this demo! Weather has been very tough on us. Major storm blew in Thurs and yesterday, more hurricane force winds, etc. We have some repairs to do on the house and outbuildings soon. House is going to need a whole new roof. The shop is still perfect though!
I don’t see it on the website yet, but will bookmark it when it shows. Thanks for the video!
Your videos are always so timely too me. I just decided it's time for a new alternator. Mine is starting to grind a little so it's time to replace. I've contacted HEI to figure out what I need from them. Hopefully, they're ready to start filling orders. Thanks again for another great video!
Please let me know what they say.
@@ModelA I didn't hear back from them, but I just checked their website again and they're now available for purchase online, so I ordered one.
@@beattyinc Great!
Such awesome content! I dont know how I would be able to hear of all these things without you. Thanks!
Well done, thanks Paul.
Prayers for Michael E. 🙏🏻
Thanks for listening
The problem with the "6V" alternators which have been around for a while, is they're really 12V alternators with the regulator modified to shut off the field coil at 7V instead of 14V. So far so good, except the problem is at 6V the field coil can't develop the same magnetic field it does at 12V, so charging current is reduced, especially at low rpm. My guess is the new alternator has a field coil designed for 6V.
I guess I am stuck in the generator world still. But that's a cool piece for sure and amazing that it excites at such a low rpm.
The Lucas ACR alternators needed a rev to get them going.
Hi Paul, this is really great. Any plans on changing out the alternators on any of your other cars and update them to this new alternator, or will you just go with what they have already? Just wondering. Great video BTW.
I think the plan is to start using these from now on.
Impressive difference
Why was the charge current so much lower on the zero RPM?
Because it was the proper voltage, not too high like the other one.
I was just cleaning the alternator on our old pickup yesterday. It would be neat if they could make one of these to fit in the original housing. They look a bit out of place to my artistic eye :)
You're right, they do. I recently painted it satin black, now it is less noticeable. Bu the way, I admire your artistic eye!
Nice technical solution but sufficient revs come when pulling away in first if not on warmup to start charge on the less expensive common alternator. I idle at 475 rpm to keep steady charge on a 12v - ground system and do not feel the engine is racing. For a little more the alternator built into an original generator case may be an option for those who want the original look. Do they have the same hiccup?
Ooh, I wonder if they have a version for 12v that could work on older diesel tractors.
Or 12v gas tractors... I have a 1966 J.D. utility that does the same thing, rev it to 1400 rpm and then it charges...
@@timnewman1172 yep. I know, with mine, I have to have it pretty much wide open to start charging. Not the best thing for a diesel engine.
Yes they do! Tell him you saw my video but want the 12V version.
I mentioned issues with other videos here & the one thing that should be done to these cars & have a '31 Slant Briggs Town sedan, is to get rid of the old 6 volt system & change to a complete 12 volt negative ground system. More options & together with a CDI ignition system & H4 headlights, your Model A will thank you for it!
Paul - You showed that the original generator put out 7.5 Volts. That is too high for a 6 Volt battery. That voltage will boil the electrolyte. Did you notice how the original generator put out 10 Amps whereas the replacement only put out about 1 or 2 amps. That's because the battery was already fully charged. When you turned on the lights the replacement generator made up for the 10 amp discharge and added about 2 more for the battery. It has a much better regulator.
Yes. Much better
@@ModelA Paul - I noticed the hole in the back of Roadie. It looks perfect for a NMO dual-band antenna mount. Wait! 6 Volt positive ground-probably not. Jim, KO6GM
Not sure what was there. just a tad too big for an NMO. maybe some kind if CB antenna style mount?
That is neat, but I am running a Tom Wesenberg EVR in my generator with a diode cutout and it behaves the exact same way. You have the beauty of alternator performance without an ugly alternator hanging on the side of your Model A Ford engine. Plus I'm sure that is a whole lot cheaper than what these guys are going to charge for their alternator.
We all miss Tom, that guy was an electrical genius!
Yes, Tom was one of a kind. I asked him to do a generator for me, but he wasn't feeling up to it. Then, well, you know what happened. Such a nice man.
Hi Jeff C, I too have a Tom converted generator, feel very fortunate to have. I couldn’t agree more with your comments on the aesthetics of a modern alternator (ugly) when a simple conversation to the old classic generator works well for me and looks original. I suppose it’s all personal preference but I try to keep my 1930 Tudor as original looking as possible.
I’m no electrical engineer so not sure what the generator conversion required but I thought with P.S. electrical background he could figure it out and would have preferred preservation vs modern.
Paul & Tina hope you didn't suffer ill effects of your weather.
So the "Zero RPM" besides charging at low RPM fantastic, it also seemed to exhibit lower charging voltage then your converted alternator i/e less electrolyte boil-off. I was curious if you ran a tested of the alt. with a battery at a low state of charge, did the alternator produced a higher voltage say 7-7.5, (8!)v?
I haven't done much with it yet. Yes, the charging voltage is more battery friendly, but also the regulation seems spot on all the time. My guess is the charging voltage will stay around 6.6 all the time. A severely low battery might need closer to 6.9 volts to wake up. I don't know. More experimenting is in order.
Great! I want one. Thanks Paul.
Great new product, thanks for showing. I noticed your sedan behind you that was for sale. Did you decide not to sell? It's a great example of a Model A.
This was recorded a month ago. It is a stellar example of a fully sorted Model A, indeed! It is still here, sitting in the same spot waiting for one of the new owner to pick it up.
Well ---- that will make things a whole lot better won't it ----- Am wondering why ---- the part that makes it so good -- can't be purchased and installed on the older ones ---- maybe in a short time the part will be available ---- a shame to have to go buy a new one -- when a short fix -- would do it -------- Nice --- now have correct charging ---- and instant charge on startup ------ and continue charge when battery is loaded ----------- Thank You ---------- Rodney
It would seem that the "converted " alternator could potentially overcharge the battery . I have long suspected this to be the case . You did not change the battery so it was in the same state of charge but the "new" alternator much kinder to the battery . As another test crank the starter over with the gas off and fuel off to pull the battery down quite a bit just wondered how the alternator compensates . Good video as usual
John Charlton
Thanks John! Yea, the zero RPM alt is definitely much kinder.
John - I noticed the same thing 7.5 Volts is too high for a 6 Volt battery. It will boil the electrolyte. Apparently the converted alternator doesn't have good current regulation.
Hate to be that guy, but is that a knock I hear @ 7:36?
Sounds like it's every 2nd revolution, so maybe valve related? I'm very inexperienced when it comes to knock diagnostics, so I'm curious ^^
Goofy audio?
Putting a model a engine in my 25 t roadster got complicated. So I haven’t figured out a charging system. So my battery gets charged when i get home. Obviously I don’t use my headlights. Useless anyway. I don’t venture out at dark. The battery actually lasts longer than I thought just running the ignition!
Looks like it is not on the website yet.
May have to call them.
I have 32 model A with a Delco alternator and it does the same thing I have to Rev it up to start charging,but at idle it is almost zero output. Also I have a 49 GMC that I was going to try to convert to 12v, but if they have these alternators that would save me a bunch of $$.
Correct. Give them a call, mention this video and they will know what you want.
Hello Paul , I must say thanks again for all the very helpful information and great videos on the model A, am reaching out to inform you that I was able to get the opportunity to purchase back my father’s 1931 model A , talk about a dream come true, but I’ve got a question, any idea on how to replace the roof , the previous owner had purchased a top when he bought the car from me , but never had it installed, so am reaching out to the master for his wisdom.
Thanks Ian
Nice work man!!! Keep it in the family from now on! I will be doing a video on how to do a top very soon. waiting for warm weather any day now.
Thank you Dr Shinn
Paul why do I have to to go to the expert when you are an outstanding gentleman and are always there without hesitation to lend us a helping hand? Most kind of you sir, blessings to you and your love ones, from the endless summer paradise Puerto Rico Jesus Torres.l
Gracias, amigo!! God bless
@@ModelA you always have shown kindness and integrity, that why we watch your videos and are willing to give a helping hand to those like myself at times ask for technical information, blessings to you and your family, from the endless summer paradise Puerto Rico Jesus Torres.
@@ModelA seems to me that your Spanish is better than my English, most kind of you gentleman.
@@JesusTorres-qr1gz Mi espanol no esta bien.
@@ModelAI moved out of new Jersey in 2007, and I am loosing the touch in English do to lack of practice but your writing in Spanish is outstanding and impressive, you are making me look bad in my native language, your integrity and kindness is great, I wish to leave closer to your place with your permission to pass by from time to time to see the progress of your toys, I am 71 years old but from time to time I get my hands greased up, I was born and raised in the mechanical field and enjoy every second of your outstanding videos, thanks to the technology my gratitude for your overwhelming good faith as a person long life and prosperity to you and your love ones, from the endless summer paradise Puerto Rico Jesus Torres.
Thanks for sharing Paul!
So Paul, what is the secret of this fabulous new charging system. Is it a new designed regulator or, simply magic of engineering?
I haven't taken it apart to find out yet.
@@ModelA Paul, can't wait to see what's inside. That regulator sounds amazing.
I hope it isn't some proprietary thing
Paul. Outstanding product. Will check it out. But have a question bout another vid. Was interested in Mr Mitchell’s In cab transmission level check kit. Tried the links provide got nowhere. Any updated info would be good cuz links don’t work. But great idea cuz I’m getting old and don’t like crawling under the car if I don’t have to. Thanks
It's from Mitchell Manufacturing. They are easily found using a web search. Go for it!
This difference is so minimal what would really matter is price. Price comparison?
Revving the engine is really not that hard.
I considered one of these, but my alternator is still working.
It isn't just the RPMs. Did you see the charge voltage? This alternator won't boil out your battery and it will last longer.
@@ModelA my alternator has been on my car 15 years. Its never boiled out my battery, which is also currently 8 years old.
Its really a price point. Id buy one, depending upon price. That wasn't mentioned.
@@ktimco I don't know what the price will be when I shot this. I know what I paid for the prototype, which was higher than the production price.
Awesome Video, Paul with the dunk, how much does it alternator cost, Buddie needs one, thks
I don't know yet.
Where do I get a metric Cresent wrench, all I have are standard?
I think this would of been done just by having an open rectifier that don't close like to protect the regulator in a 12 volt system .
There is some goody parts in this thing. I am dissecting it to learn what is going on
Great video Paul. Much appreciated.
Glad you enjoyed it
Nice install, but why a metric bolt/nut???
All the hardware on alternators today is metric.
Is there anything preventing wiring the converted one wire 6v to a pseudo three wire? A diode and/or idiot light on a wire to the ignition switch (or any keyed source) should do away with revving of the engine and any drain. The voltage sensor wire is probably not needed but could also be included to make sure the battery is getting 7.5 v when needed.
Just a thought.
The way a stock Model A ignition is wired (armored cable, etc.), it doesn't lend itself well to a 3-wire setup. No "hot" connection is made. The coil is always "hot". But if you have a homebrew ignition setup, then sure that could work. Otherwise, it's WAY easier to just bolt one of these in and be done with it.
The coil is always hot? That's interesting. Then what does the ignition switch do?
@@billchuplis9460 Connects the downstream side of the coil to the points. When the points are closed, the current loop is as follows-
Battery to junction box
Junction box to coil -
Through coil primary
Coil + to ignition switch
Ignition switch to points
Points to ground
They need to make one that actually looks like a genorator now. !
That would be cool
A company makes one for the flathead v8 that looks like a generator but it's a 1 wire alternator
Is the thermostat in the hose needed in my 1931 A
No
One thing I don’t understand. There are many alternator conversions out there now both 12v neg as well as the 6v pos. Some of us prefer a voltmeter. Yet nobody has come out with one to fit in the spot currently holding the ammeter. It’s not so much a case of diameter since there are many choices for 2” meters that could be made to work and they have the old style lettering. The problem comes with depth. I don’t know of any shallow enough to fit in the ammeter location. I know all the arguments about ammeter vs voltmeter and voltmeter is just my personal choice. Any ideas for a voltmeter solution? I don’t care for the add on steering column gauge mounts.Thanks
There used to be one that looked just like the stock ammeter but showed volts. I have no idea who made or sold it, but I saw a few many years ago. Maybe one will show up at a swap meet? Keep your eyes on ebay or whatever. I understand why you want a voltmeter. I just trained my brain to watch the ammeter and now I don't want a voltmeter anymore.
@@ModelA Thanks, Paul. I knew there had to be something out there.
At 5,000 ft above sea level what size jet do you recommend for a zenith carb. On a 1929 model ford. This is in Utah
I use all original jets (not repro) and they work perfectly at elevation. On our trips over the pass, I just close down the GAV and she runs like a champ.
@@ModelA thank you Paul for that reply ! I told my brother his zenith carb just needs to be rebuilt. Young guy just don’t believe their elders 😉😊👍
@@leathermule4824 Haha!! Yea, them young whippersnappers... I have to go yell at some kids to get off my lawn now.
Nice. Thanks for the info!
Now they need to use a 10-32 stud so you don't need the metric adjustable wrench.
Agreed!
Such a great thing to help out with a email
Just wondering… Does Stella have a spare tire?
Yes. Just not on it because it makes it more difficult to work under the hood.
That’s pretty neat.
How do you have a 30 Model A with a 29 dash?
It is an early 30. The round speedometer came about a couple months after this car was built.
Thanks fore the vid!
Does a ford model a have a fkywheel magneto like the ford model t
No.
This a sounds great as all of them do, nothing sounds as good as a model a at idle
Model As do sound neat!
Can you post that link here? Having trouble finding it. Thanks Paul.
heielectric.com/ It is also in the video description.
Awesome. Thank you. Good link to save. Got lots of goodies
That’s really cool!
Thank you for sharing
Thank you
Wooo look at that regulator! I mean...that's what is going on there. That and modern technology.
This is not a technical question and I know this is not the right venue to ask but do you know anybody in the central valley that does really good Model A bodywork?
Not since Dave retired. I'm looking for a new bodywork and paint guy
if I find one, I’ll let you know.
Awesome!
Very good video.
How much do you think someone is gonna offer for gandalf?
I dunno... 20 grand I suppose
I like your T shirt Paul where did you get it.
MotorTrend's producer Michelle sent it to me as a thanks for appearing on the show. I have 2 of them!
@@ModelA sweet
Cool at some point I want to upgrade my 26 Oakland.
Best is how Ford design them
I'd never convert any Model A to 12v, just not needed.
The better idea is just covert to 12 volt and make the car more reliable!!!
I disagree. But that's OK
interesting, are they good bang for the buck?💵
I think so
😎👍
All you needed to do is add a jumper wire in the alternator you had. There's nothing special about the new one other than the jumper being pre installed
I do add the jumper wire in mine between the rectifier and the field. This has a totally different regulator and some fancy extra board.
Hello from the UK not being funny but why don't you just convert it to 12v like alot of people do plus get rid of the starter motor and fit a 2023 high torque starter motor with plenty of spinning/cranking power plus alot less energy taken from the battery when turning over?
Because that is not necessary, and I don't want to. Hey, at least I'm honest!