A message to 343 - Please read the room about Halo Infinite's in game store
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- Опубліковано 29 вер 2024
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Award for "worst timed video ever" goes to me.
It seems 343 released a live stream and discussed many aspects of this.
Quite a lot is being changed/updated and evaulated! www.reddit.com/r/halo/comments/rhbizq/halo_infinite_holiday_stream_new_info_tenrai/?
Thank you Late Night Gaming! I have been talking about this issue on the shop as well stating how maybe at least it should allow players yo earn credits some how otherwise they might as well put actual price tags. Sadly people have only been making excuses such as "Poor" or " THEY NEED MONEY". I'm not saying remove monetization, i would love for it to improve instead.
Yea lmao, just saw a video about the interview before this
Sometimes it happens, just think of it like 343 directly hearing you right after you posted lol
Bad timing on your part? or amazing timing on 343’s part
@@zacpatproductions2052 both
Keep the conversation civil, be respectful. If you see an opinion disagree with, instead of insulting that person-Ask why they feel that specific way.
Have conversations, not shouting matches.
"It will be done my lord"
Yes my liege
Will do
This is the first halo game I don’t have installed. I uninstalled the game after I finished the campaign. I’ll come back to the mp when the battle pass is gone and f2p crap is gone. As a major halo fan I haven’t ignored a new game since halo 4
@@kungfuchief k
I find it absolutely absurd that we went from how pro consumer MCC is to how strangely predatory the store/pass is in Infinite.
my prediction is that the investors and higher ups funding this game at Microsoft probably did not give 343 a lot of say in the monetization since development was so far behind that the game was delayed a year
I mean tbh MCC was almost TOO consumer friendly lol. Pay $40 once and get like 5 games plus eight seasons of cosmetics completely for free? Ridiculous value. Too good of a value. I believe they did this purely as a show of good faith to the community, and to celebrate Halo as a franchise. In some ways however I think that this created unrealistic expectations with Infinite and that has added to the backlash.
@@Major_Zephyr I think that’s a fair look at it, but ya gotta admit it’s a little crazy. The disparity between the two games is beyond nutty
Simple, because MCC is pay to play and infinite free to play.
@@serballista it is pretty crazy and I think they shot themselves in the foot by setting expectations like that. But yeah Infinite definitely has some issues with cosmetics to work out. I think simply by adding a way to earn in-game currency through gameplay that will fix half of the issues right there
I perfectly agree with everything said here. Nice wording. Only thing is that it's basically confirmed that the reach customization WAS ripped out of the battlepass, and that it was originally supposed to be 120 levels. You may have not included that to give the devs the benefit of the doubt, but I just wanted to mention it here. Goodjob overall tho.
It’s not about giving devs the benefit of the doubt - it was never up to them. You think the devs voluntarily sabotaged their own vision? No way. These kind of decisions come from above.
So much love was put into this game, it sucks to see the monitization part of 343 ruin a huge aspect of multiplayer
It does say 120 when finishing the battle pass, the achievement has a picture of 120
Hey, where was this confirmation posted to? I'd like to read/watch the source.
Yeah, had it not been for that, I would actually have my CQB helmet now >:(
There are also a lack of details that existed on Reach’s armor in its home game. It comes across as the armors are either unfinished or glitched. Then there are the armor kits, of which contain parts that can’t be used separately from the kits (or are incomplete like Jun’s).
I think it's an really inaccurate to say that developers need to "keep the lights on" when free to play is clearly intended to produce multi-million dollar bonuses for upper level positions and share holders.
Like yeah they need to make money for development, but the only reason resources (and wages) for that are tight are related to obsessive greed. I realize it's just a figure of speech but I feel like ranting.
If greedy fucking capitalists didn't own all these studios, and the devs got to control how they worked and produced art, I bet video gaming would be so incredible we can't even imagine it.
This shit, in comparison, sucks, and it taints everything I enjoy to a degree.
@@Jockster109 communist-socialist gaming would stagnate fast fyi
@@Hades1100 Yep there are only two economic options on Earth and they are exact opposites.
Democracy in a better form can have more developer freedom while still trying to make a profit. I just understand most people who complain about capitalism aren't Capitalists or Anarcho Capitalists
@@Jockster109 I mean that's exactly what the devs for "tonight we riot are".
Very upset the Reach pass doesn't have all the Reach armor.
@@trevordavis6830 Yeah, $20 for EACH armor pack is bullshit. If they’re gonna stick to that shitty model they should have it $2-$4 max.
I think one way they could improve the shop is by giving people who purchased the campaign a special set of challenges that when completed, awarded the player with credits that could be used in the shop. Another idea is that they could give credits away as a part of a daily login award system, or just giving the player 100 credits every day (if the campaign was purchased)
If they release a $30 bundle of the Haunted helmet with 2 skull emblems I will be absolutely livid.
I can't agree more with everything you said.
Still, I miss the old Halo 3 days where the armors and items were unlocked through challenges like collecting skulls, the Vidmaster Challenges, (or simply being granted an armor from the studio,) or by doing in match shenanigans. The last decade has been less about, "I hope people play our game," and more, "I hope people pay our game."
I hate what they are doing with the shop. Especially gating popular armor behind this wall. I've gone to conventions in full foam Soldier armor. It WAS my in-game identity since Halo 4 released. To say that I love that armor is an understatement, I have every action figure ever made of that armor, every promotional material with that armor on it, use it in Halo 3 MCC, Halo 4, and Halo 5, and I have worn it on my damn body and felt like the most important man in the universe... And I gave those greedy fuckers $20 to wear it... I hate that I did it, but I had to... I felt real, visceral emotion when I saw it in the store, a video game has truly never made me so angry. Between that and Anubis, they have released the two best armors in the entire game in the fucking store, and I gave them money when I promised myself I wouldn't. I hate that I'm part of the problem, but where the hell do they get off putting armor with YEARS of history behind it in the store? I know we are getting Gungnir in the store, and honestly, as somebody who made Inheritor while using almost exclusively the Gungnir helmet, Tactical/Patrol chest, and ODST shoulders, I may just quit out of protest. It hurts to see my childhood and teenage years gutted and sold back to me piecemeal like this.
Thanks for putting my thoughts into coherent words.
Could be worse. Could be like going to a football game where literally everything is overpriced and monetized hard
That's... Exactly what it's like now lol
@@maxj9204 football games are way way worse than anything here.
That ad voice sounded way too close to Fareed Zakaria wtf that was awesome.
I think the store really hurt our opinions on armor coatings. In principle, I was fairly open to armor coatings, but the drip feed of colors has me pessimistic that I'll ever see my spartan with the colors I want. I was lucky enough to have all my favorite Reach armor in the pass, but the store's pricing seems to be trying to artificially create the most unique Spartans of any Halo game.
Ideas:
- Credits need to be earnable via gameplay. Look to Warframe, For Honor, Rainbox Six Siege, Numerous games with monetization let you earn in-game credits to let players unlock most in-game items via gameplay.
- The store needs to be more like a catalog rather than a rotation. Individual items should be purchasable via credits that, like I mentioned, can be earned via gameplay or purchase to bypass any and all grind to acquire said item. Rotational items should only be bundles of items that you could still purchase individually but bundles offer a reduced price for more items. But bundles are optional. You can still obtain every item whenever you wish as long as you have earned or purchased the necessary credits.
- Battlepasses must be restructured to be more like MCC. Bundle shoulder pieces together instead of individually, Reach armor should be in the Reach battlepass, Mark VII Armor should be campaign or credit unlockable. Remain true to the theme of the battlepass and don’t mix and match items.
- Armor Coatings need to be cross core compatible to create more customization opportunities for players and less restrictions. Emblems as well should be cross-customization. Weapons and Vehicles I personally feel can remain singular but much needs to be done about their current pricing and “rarity” vs reality. $15 for brown? Hell no.
- 1 Challenge Swap per login would be a nice addition to the game.
- Remove the over abundance of challenge swaps and XP boosts spread throughout the battlepass to actually include content that would add value to the $10 investment. (We wouldn’t even need challenge swaps or boosts if the progression system wasn’t busted)
- They’re already making changes to the events to make them worthwhile which is good but same applies there. Make the free battlepasses worth the time investment. Don’t advertise free items only to sell them in the store.
Apologies if the ideas I listed are a bit scattered. I tried to keep them in a rhythm then I lost it. Lol. But I hope that 343 changes the monetization model SOON. Because this is effecting mine and everyone’s enjoyment of the game day by day. If this game wants to survive, they NEED to change this system. And hopefully some of my, latenightgamings, and/or the communities ideas are implemented or just the issues are addressed in some capacity.
6:15 All of the cosmetics for the Mark VII should have been challenge rewards/ Exp progression rewards. infinite needs a standalone progression system outside of the battle pass like nearly every other game has done since battlepass's were first introduced. i hate HATE the fact that i have to spend money on a game just to feel an inkling of customization opportunity. i stand by the fact that i would have rather the MP been part of the 60-70$ of the full game and actually been finished.. im sick and fucking tired of AAA games coming out unfinished, and what is essentially slapping players in the face with paywalls and bullshit prices for cosmetic's that should have just been a part of the games progression from day 1. i stand by the fact that i will NEVER buy items from the store. I will NEVER buy the battlepass, and as sad as it makes me I'm finding it harder and harder to justify why i play the game unless a friend wants to play. its disheartening because its not inherently whets in the game that's bad, its what's not in the game, and what's locked behind the "fuck you give me 20$" monetization that infinite is basically forcing you into. and it sucks because its not the devs fault. its Microsoft's slimy greedy little fingers latching onto the teet of the halo IP to suck the souls out of all our wallets. the buffooneries that must go on in the boardroom meetings and investor meetings should be addressed. the worst of it though is that they are unlikely to change it because people are paying the 20$ for fucking HAZOP... FUCKING HAZOP. and until we as a community speak with our wallets instead of our words nothing will change.
Thanks for keeping it real. Hope they hear all of this
Umm they did
I pre-ordered my copy of this game even though I have game pass. I have the battle pass, yet I still have to spend 20 dollars on armor that was easy to get in reach. Not happy, but I still love the game, wish I got a discount or something.
The store needs to be bigger more items would mean more sales and hopefully lower prices.
We should be able to customize our colors, and the coatings should be like presets that come with special colors not available for free
The battle pass is as you said flooded with exp boosters and challenge swaps and as far as i can see very little customization for the new MK VII armor the armor I prefer to use. EXP boosters wouldn't be needed if the challenges weren't so sparce and challenge swaps would not be needed as much if the challenges weren't so difficult.
It's not just paywall it's a time gate because you have to wait for the store to sell the item in order to get access to it
It's nice to see that 343 is responding quickly and effectively, and it's nice to see that people are up in arms about it *as they should be.*
But imo none of this should have never been an issue. Nobody at 343, Microsoft, or the shareholders should have looked at 20 dollars for an armor set and said, "yea this is great! People will totally buy this!" (Ofc people did buy this because FOMO and Whales, name a more iconic duo).
Hopefully in the future they either lower the price or raise what they offer. Right now the store is utterly repugnant outside of the battlepass.
Thank you for the price rant. It’s the exact reason for why the only money I have spent so far is a dollar for game pass for the campaign.
Don't worry too much about the honeymoon phase. Some games recover *just fine* afterwards. Apex Legends launched with a bang, crashed *hardcore* in the 6 months afterwards yet has been slowly growing ever since and currently is basically back at its prime in terms of playerbase. CSGO launched in an atrocious state, yet has slowly grown into one of the most healthy competitive shooters out there (despite being the one with the most hackers by a mile or 8) in terms of playerbase. Same goes for Valorant, which had an insane beta phase, had hundreds of thousands of leavers in the months afterwards, yet now seems to be competing with CS for the title of healthiest precision/tactical shooter out there.
What I mean is: don't panic when 70% of the current players leave or take a break for a few months: it's pretty much expected and happens with most titles. If 343i stays invested it's actually the ''second growth period'' afterwards that's going to mean the most in terms of actual longevity for the game. That's the difference a live-service model can make for a game *if* handled properly.
Yea cutting 20 levels from the reach battle pass to sell back to the players at crazy prices is a big oof.
I agree with everything you said, but the problem we can argue as well is that they don`t change the prices and items because there is people buying it.... so they take advantage of it
In Australia, the store prices arent scaled down for aud, so we have to pay 15 bucks for 1000 credits instead of 10
in canada the hazop Armour is $26.99
Personally for the credits idea, I agree, I mean its what drives me to do fast pass stuff on Webtoon, because they do small events where you can earn credits. Personally for Tenrai I would change it to where you can get like 100 credits per certain amount of tiers. Besides that though, I feel a weekly challenge seperate from the weekly challenges we have should exist to earn certain amounts of credits, play 30 games to earn 300 credits and it builds on that to become play like 500 games to earn 2000 credits, just enough build up to get to the big bundle but being reasonable enough to where it would work out. Another thing is that I would make it so the store would change from these bundles into a full catalogue system, having a similar build up to the bundles we have being like
Armor: 100-250 credits
Charms: 100- 250 credits
Vehicle and Weapon skins: 50-300 credits
Coatings: 100-300 credits (I say 300 as the high here because of things like chrome and camo armor would likely need more focus on details and texturing so it should be worth more)
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I feel like the only time it should truly be limited if they collaborate with video games companies or something like that. Like if they collaborate with Doom then yeah I guess would pay a reasonable price for it.
I'd just like to say that I don't think earning credits is a broad enough statement. Look at CoD. You can basically earn 1300 CP every season, which lasts 3 months. If you want to get the next BP, you only get 300 CP every 3 months. Imagine if they did that with Infinite. That means you can only get a bundle every 6 months or so... This is completely unacceptable. I think you should be able to earn 1500 credits per week. With bundles being 2000 credits, you would be missing 500 credits to buy the bundle. Then you can choose to buy 500 credits for 5 bucks and get the set, save the credits for the following week's bundle, or buy the coating set instead. This would be a lot more inticing for me and I think I would spend a lot more money that way as well as play more to get the credits. This is an absolute win-win and I think most people would be satisfied with this approach
Personally I think the best monetization for a game I’ve seen is the TF2 COMMUNITY MARKET. It’s extremely cheap cosmetics (excluding unusuals and some extremely rare weapon skins that are obtained through gameplay and a moderate level of rng) and the market feeds into itself because it’s the players selling cosmetics they don’t use anymore, allowing them to get something from another person for a reasonable price, or even save up to find something they can’t find on the market by going to the store in-game.
Aside from just companies generally being greedy, I can’t see any reason NOT to have a community market. The players themselves undoubtedly know what an item is worth to them better than any developer/executive or whatever can possibly understand on a case-by-case basis. At some point or another, people still pay for a cosmetic in the store, but a community market would drastically reduce the frustration of buying items due to lower pricing and the ability to sell the cosmetic at any point in the future if the person no longer wants it, and buy something else that they want, instead of having to spend more money, while also leaving a cosmetic that isn’t in use to collect dust
Edit: typed on mobile and dear god I wasn’t aware of how long this went on for XD
I think a lot of ppl aren't noticing that all of the MK VII armor on the pass is on free tiers
Until it is fixed, I will continue wearing my recruit armor.
Happy was my favorite helmet and I'm depressed that either I pay 20 and get one item want or not get it at all
@10:50
Yeah! They can learn a thing or two from DE :)
If they made stuff way cheaper, like 200 credits per armour set, they'd make way more than they would selling it for 2000 credits.
They gave the world the multiplayer for free that is true. So why the hell did I pay a 60 dollar full game price for just an 8 hour campaign? They are doing us dirty with this money based multiplayer
I tried to show my pet spider this, but then I realised I am Australian and should just squish the spider instead.
The changes that are expected: put the ingame currency in the battle pass.
343 industrys: 😐 [ * Dial up modem noises. * ]
Seriously believe this should've not been made free to play or live service
In my opinion from start I never agreed with the games multiplayer going free to play.. due to these reasons.. I’d rather would’ve waited for the campaign to drop with the multiplayer without the micro transaction bullsh*t
Edit: i know this wouldn’t have most likely changed anything if it did happen but seriously..
If they did introduce credits but does anyone ever think about them being stingy with said credits and giving everyone low amounts of these low credits example look at bungie with destiny 2 bounty system sure if you complete random bounties you get rewarded bright dust for the item shop except you only get 5 outta 10 bright dust per random bounty completion
my biggest issue is lack of communication from 343. We are a month in and still haven't had a single patch fixing issues with the game. Desync, bad tickrate servers, btb vehicle spawn, unbalanced weapons in btb? Well screw us because now have to wait at least another month before something MIGHT be done. Im not expecting the game to perfect instantly what i was expecting was a roadmap. Are we seriously going to wait until May until more content is added? well to me it looks like it because 343 hasn't said otherwise
i think the noise gate setting on your mic is too high and its cutting out a little when your voice is going down in volume a bit at least in the part before the sponsor
but yes very good video agreed
"Is that fucking blue!!" Thank you 343 for giving angry Joe another excuse to say that
Angru joe is legitimately one of the worst youtubers around
@@jennyandrews6024 how so?
I concur.
Man, I personally don't like the fact that they have to do bundles when I only want say the Grey Skull visor. Gotta get their prices right.
1/3 of the battle pass is reach stuff, 2/3 of it is challenge swaps
For a live-service game, they really didn't study their predecessors much. They have Destiny, The Division, Apex Legends, and so on to look to and see what _didn't_ work when it comes to monetization. It makes one wonder how much is crowbarred into the game by people with no regard for anything past the next fiscal quarter.
The worst decision for Halo multiplayer was making it free to play. They should have at least locked customization behind buying the full game.
Great vid. Spot on. Weekly Ultimate challenge rewards have been poor. Credits should be included in the Weekly rewards as well as sprinkled through out the paid battle pass
Jagex/oldschool runescape knows how to incorporate the community. Take notes devs
If you let players earn credits, that will shut the door on lower prices because it devalues the currency. They need to lower prices and that's it. If you bought pineapples with free money it doesn't benefit Microsoft to also lower prices. It may convince some people who save earned credits to buy the remaining credits to get something they want, but I prefer an item sold for a reasonable markup over its real value. That's my two cents anyway.
How do you solve the issue of players not being to earn those things by playing?
@@LateNightHalo I don't think you should be able to earn everything in the store simply by grinding, especially if it comes at the expense of lower market prices. 343 needs to provide better free things to earn. The weekly rewards and free-lane battlepass are bad in many respects. The fracture events are supposed to mitigate this as well, but that hasn't proven itself either. In an ideal world they would also add long-term or skill-based challenge unlocks similar to what previous Halos had.
I'm not playing because of this and I doubt my friends will come back even if it's fixed at this point :(
I was hoping for a good Halo Launch. But, it's compromised, again.
I feel like the base game should have had MK VII customization with it's ranking and progression. But there is no base-game progression at all.
6:30 it is the case. If you take a look at the battle pass completion image for the achievement, its 120. And if you take a look at the leaked battle pass from a couple months ago, it also had 120 levels QND every reach armor. It's awful
We dont know if that was even real.
@@Zero_XTZ5 lol
@@Zero_XTZ5 The leaked battle pass could be questionable on its own, but the 120 tier achievement picture on Xbox is pretty concrete lmao especially alongside the leak
I’m so glad your voice is in the ear of the developers at 343.
I think most of our voices here
@@Zero_XTZ5 hahahahaha what a funny joke
@@jiib7770 Considering that this is the most transparent and receptive they've ever been, it's not really that silly of a thing to say.
"At best, insulting.. At worst, alienating."
Extremely accurate depiction.
I've been alienated and insulted, I've felt like I've had no drive to really play the game after seeing how all that they talked about is pretty much shoved into the store now.. not to mention you'd have to buy the $10 reach battle pass to even have the armor then you have to spend another $20 to get just that one set of helmet and maybe shoulder pads with a possible chest piece.. this is needlessly predatory beyond belief, it ruined one of the most loved features of Halo, personalization and identity. For the sake of a quick buck, just insulted..
There is no maybe about it, it all has to be reworked.. after learning there's been people in and out of the studio due to the contract nature of the DEVs, it makes it easier to assume how the leadership manipulated the game into what it became.
Agreed. Some may think it's hyperbolic but this whole fiasco has really left a bad taste in my mouth and soured my experience with the multiplayer.
Never thought after the amazingly pro-consumer way MCC eventually turned out that we'd be having these issues. When they first unveiled coatings and the community flipped out, 343 ASSURED us that our concerns were unfounded and that it would be a great and fair system for players to express themselves. Turns out that wasn't true at all.
I'm glad they're changing things, but just the fact they - or the higher-ups who forced their hand - have such little respect for us (such contempt for us, really) makes me want to walk away from this game.
I know it's dramatic and it's just a game, but they've deadset broken my trust after earning SO much goodwill addressing feedback to Halo 5. It's just a damn shame. I really want to champion and celebrate Infinite but I'm just unbelievably turned off by every little decision they made. Even the extremely restrictive and limited playlists. Just ughhhh.
@@toconnell88 At least the campaign is fun.
@@bigbaz4632 Campaign is half assed, small, and doesn't even have coop or mission replayability. 5/10 campaign.
@@keilafleischbein59 not to mention how repetitive playing in the same area for the entire game can get too. All the interior missions feel boring and redundant, and then the "Pacific Northwest" as they've labeled it just gets stale as well. Even if they just had weather like some rain on the map every so often, that would add freshness to the overall gameplay and replayability. I agree, the campaign to me is aight at best. Definitely doesn't feel like a half a billion dollar budget game lol, if that rumor was even true
No cap I’ve stopped playing. I have no drive. No reward like after a ranked game where I dropped 35-7 with an Overkill a killing frenzy 2 killing sprees and a bunch of other medals I slowly began to loose interest because I wasn’t rewarded for my performance. How good I play doesn’t matter I can’t express myself and it’s just a chore
There's no good reason for items to rotate in and out of the store on a daily or weekly basis. Just give us a static catalogue and let us buy individual items at any time, not just in a bundle. That's my biggest issue right now.
Absolutely! Bundles should be *discounts* on items you can purchase individually. Like hmm, ten bucks if i bought this whole deal piecemeal but with the bundle it's seven together. On top of at least lowering all base prices by a little.
Exactly. I'll add that if you *must* have a weekly rotational aspect to the store then the weekly rotations should be sales on things you could buy at any time.
@Maverick They can FOMO people with sales and deals.
Fuck, even Destiny 2 has that.
@@Windjammer19 exactly! and it ain’t even scummy either!
I am almost Certain 343 employees in large agree with the player base on this issue but microsoft/investors/etc push quite heavily towards the high prices we have at the moment, It might be a good idea to simply show microsoft how much this hurts their brand and maybe they might reconsider their approach.
I also think Reach was a bad choice for season 1, since Mk 7 is the main armour for Infinite. Other then maybe Mk 6 and the fractures, there aren’t really any other cores they could add. So it makes way more sense for the first few seasons to add a bunch of options to Mk7, and then do Reach for season 3 and then go back to Mk7.
Yeah, it feels so weird that the campaign has a ton of coatings and stuff for MK 7, but the actual core has like 10ish pieces of armor you can unlock on the BP (with only 3 of those pieces being helmets).
@@underscore_5450 i love the campaign coatings, i got this shiny Dark red coating themed after Jega Rdomni's Energy Sword
the armor core system just kinda sucks, really just limits how you can mix and match pieces because everything's separated
@@underscore_5450 the issue isn’t Reach being the battle pass itself, it’s that so many of the Mark VII stuff is locked behind the rotating store.
Obligatory plug: My idea for this whole monetization business is to introduce a campaign exclusive set of weekly challenges (similar to how MCC has pve challenges) the campaign challenges reward credits, so people who paid for a $60 game get to feel like they did actually paid $60 while in the multiplayer instead of just in the singleplayer. Also provide a good objective for pve players to pursue after finishing the campaign. Adding an option to enable custom spartans in campaign after you've beaten it at least once would also go a long way towards encouraging more MP spartan customization, and as a result, more buying of cosmetics.
That doesn't sound like a bad idea.
In fact it sounds like a great one.
This would be such a good idea. Gives players incentives to buy to campaign or get game pass for it
to add to your idea what if they gave you $60+ or more worth of credits for buying the campaign?
I 2nd this, the campaign, while I personally love it, was full price, not $40 like most single player only games, we used to get that along with MP and none of this F2P bs with the store, if the campaign is full price then I want a lot easier of a time getting things for MP since i payed for it essentially
As much as I’d like that I don’t think it would be realistic. Microsoft could argue that the $60 value is already provided by the instant grant of credits and leverage that to either not have credits challenges or make credit gains from them negligible making it worse for the long term.
Halo Infinite is SO close. I feel like the fixes are SO EASY to make, that it's more heartbreaking than if Infinite were really bad. Infinite is beautiful. The campaign is fun, both new and full of callbacks. Multiplayer is SO fun, most fun I've had since Reach!
I'm so glad big names in the Halo community are addressing the few, but glaring flaws that Infinite has. I really feel like Halo is back and this could be a brand-new decade of Halo, but only if these changes are made will it realize its full potential.
I actually feel the opposite. If the game wasn't what it is right now, it would have been an absolute disaster. I think 343's made the right choices where it mattered most, the story, the art, the music, the very soul of Halo. I think that for the most part of what we don't like, their hands were forced. Another commenter pointed out that there were supposed to be 120 levels to the battle pass, and this is corroborated by the achievement icon showing 120. The speculation is that all the reach armors were originally all in the battlepass.
And to their credit, they're working within their constraints, listening to the community about the progression issues and moving to fix it. It's been a month since multiplayer launched, and they've made three adjustments to progression.
@@DualWieldFTW im honestly kinda glad they are listening and tweaking really bad decisions like the tenrai event but that fortnite store model is super terrible it made the community super angry like instead appreciating the amazing designs its now "20 bucks for legacy gear that i used to get for playing game" or "20 bucks for something i barely got"
@@MehGloomish yea no the store is trash and I don't think it's the devs who are doing that
@@DualWieldFTW yeah i know that its microsofts and people who are not good with money fault on that part but i hope eventually that buisness model will be forgotten soon and replace with something far better one than that and hopefully halo will be the first to break it because honestly its infinitely more money hungry than lootboxes
Extremely easy in concept, but these changes *will take time*. I’m sure they will be accomplished before long, but we have to be patient, and keep the feedback rolling, as they have so actively asked of us 👍
I wonder how much of these issues could’ve been avoided if the bundles costed 5 bucks or smth comparable
I’m sorry to say it’ll never be 5 dollars, we have to compromise with 343 and Microsoft and probably land on a price range around 10-15 dollars, this would be the most efficient demand equilibrium, as players will be wayyy more willing to pay for the cosmetics and it will probably double the sales in the shop making it so the profit is either the same or more likely even higher than before. It’s the most profitable and fair way to fix this. Both parties win. It’s almost like Microsoft doesn’t understand basic Econ, right now it’s like there’s an artificial shortage driving up the prices that don’t meet fans actual demand, but if they lowered them you’d find that maximum sales equilibrium, and meet players actual demand for these armors in the shop, which would incline more paid and unpaid customers to buy from the shop, as well as bring in new players by undercutting your competitors with actual fair prices, creating even more potential paid customers.
On one hand, I can feel the love that was put into this game from the developers, it's the most fun I've had in a long time. On the other, I feel the nasty greed from the monetization, I feel like I'm losing out and that I don't deserve to look badass unless I open my wallet.
How is this game so good and so bad at the same time? Such a strange feeling, and it's starting to make me resent the game a little. I hope 343 can stop this for the games sake.
For real I don’t have that many hours on mcc as I do with infinite and that was all just multiplayer, I was about 5 days in multiplayer and barely had shit for my reach core
Went to halo mcc and leveled up the free season shit and got way more options in just basically half a day of grinding and doing challenges, felt way more proud of my Spartan in mcc than infinite, I still feel that way only did 5 challenges this week in mcc and only 3 pages away from maxing out the reach tiers
It's not that great, the gameplay can only carry it so much but when you compound the insane amount of desync issues that are becoming worse with every hotfix, the poor customization and progression, combined with limiting BtB to only 10v10, the multiplayer here is so barebones it is leagues behind most other F2P and even $60 paid games. It lacks basic features that previous iterations had 15 years ago. I do not see Halo Infinite lasting with over a 50k population into the next 2 months. They've already admitted to limitations with their engine (Slipspace is literally just a reskin of Halo 2 and Reach's engine: Blam!), and they are using dev tools (Faber) which 343's developers are quoted as saying is the equivalent of "tech bankruptcy." All in all, you are looking at a worse version of Halo Reach, just chock full of unnecessary overpriced cosmetics, less playlists, no real progression outside of the battlepass, several core features missing that have been present in Halo for over two decades, and timegated gamemodes. You can have fun repeatedly playing Slayer for the next ten years, because that's all their engine is capable of, while they drip feed you content over their "ten year plan". You want proof the population is declining? Check the steamcharts since launch of open beta the population has decreased by 20%. "BUT its available on multiple platforms" so is Destiny 2 and a host of other games that are much more popular on Steam. The population is dying, 343 have squandered an entire month making minor hotfixes to a system they spent years developing, and the most feedback we've received regarding their greedy business practices is "We'll look into it"
I really do hate how everything is in a bundle, For example I'd love to have gotten that Warthog attachment from the first week, BUT absolutely not for 15 because it's forcibly shipped with 2 ugly shades of blue for 2 vehicles.
It’s wild how Warzone has better deals than Infinite. Say what you want about the game, but Warzone makes your $20 worth it. It gives you a cool skin, two weapons blueprints sometimes with tracer rounds, a calling card, a weapon charm (that you can use for all guns), a emblem or sticker and a watch or assassination. Can’t even buy a full armor set for $20 in Infinite and that’s just sad
It’s not worth it but I see what u mean
Infinite's store is so bad that it makes Bobby Kotick look like Robin Hood in comparison
I have to disagree with the notion that even THAT is worth 20$.
Sure the quantity is more fair, but 20$ is and always will be unacceptable regardless of wether or not the game is free to play.
You cant convince me that these small handfuls of cosmetics is worth almost half the value of a full priced game.
Especially given how little you get IN said 60$ games.
Its honestly insane the costs of just having a decent number of cosmetics.
I get what you're getting at with this, but it does not excuse the egregious pricing.
I get these live games need a revenue source but putting 7$ at most for armor sets would not only be fair, but I can GUARANTEE that FAR more people would dip to buy it, so much so that it would make them MORE money than what they currently are making.
CoD in general is better, BO:CW is honestly the monetization model they should improve to be and then if the community still isn't happy with the amount in each pass or the amount it costs then more feedback and changes can be slowly applied
I like how around 5 mins in LNG directly says why this isn't an appropriate point to make and you still decided to make it lmao
i feel that the separation of cosmetics between the armour cores has caused most of the problems, like a step backwards from halo 5's mix and match cosmetic pool
The battle pass and store are extremely scummy, but personally I don't care that much. What _does_ bother me is the latency and hit detection issues, especially with melee. It's extremely frustrating to break a person's shield and melee them, only for the hit to not register and they turn around and kill you. It's wildly inconsistent too, some nights I don't have a problem at all and other nights it's near constant. And I know it's not just me because there are tons of clips on youtube of other players having the exact same problem.
I'm going to say it. You're not hard enough on 343 and this kind of monetization is very blatant. Let us stop pretending that the developers of this game are idiots and understand that the store is the way it is because of greed. Halo Infinite's multiplayer didn't need to be free to play. It could have been included with the campaign for sixty dollars like every Halo game before it. The system that has been constructed here was purposefully chosen to maximize monetization of game that they knew people were going to like. This monetization system is even *worse* than Halo 5's REQ system.
I would almost bet my life developers had nothing to do with the monetization decision making.
@@huntermacdonald6431
I would bet my life they did.
Edit: This reminds me of the cope people made about Destiny 2 and Bungie. Stuff such as, "Activision are the ones behind the microtransactions!" when actually it was the publisher keeping Bungie doing the outrageous monetization strategies they do now. When Bungie left Activision the microtransactions only got worse. I have no doubt that some Microsoft exec is very happy about Infinite's monetization, but let's stop pretending the developers aren't quivering with joy either and popping champagne bottles.
Their response to criticism thus far has been, "Oh yeah. We'll put the Zenrai armors in the Fractured Battle pass." Completely ignoring the fact they did the same thing with the Reach battle pass and have sold four bundles of Reach armor already that were supposed to be in the Battlepass and were pulled last minute. Their response to that was, "We'll reevaluate prices." Congrats, now you'll pay ten dollars instead of twenty.
Exactly, thank you. It's frustrating that all the content creators who have an "in" now with 343 seem like they're just beating around the bush and not fully voicing their true opinion about the game. Could be out of nervousness to not piss off the devs and lose that connection, or maybe I'm just jumping to conclusions and sound like a dick. Either way, the majority of the entire player base is in complete agreement that the monetization system is horrible, the battle pass is horrible, the challenge system is horrible, armor customization is horrible, etc etc. The saving Grace of this game seems like pretty much just the core gameplay, and that's bound to wear off quickly if the blatantly obvious issues that are ruining the game aren't addressed and overhauled asap. He's right that the honeymoon phase is gonna be over soon, and considering the vast majority of players have heavy complaints and concerns about the game already, the longevity of this game doesn't feel too promising at the moment. Just seems like Microsoft and 343 are REALLY trying to milk that cow dry before the franchise dies, and the in-game store is huge evidence of that.
@@terrybludo4866
Agree. This game is going to die in three months, get a resurgence with co-op and forge come out and then die again.
@@slimerewoods5766
Halo 5's loot boxes allowed you to earn items without paying for them. You could completely avoid spending real money for REQs and reasonably unlock content. If you play 20 matches of say, SWAT in Halo 5 and won all twenty you would make around 40-50k req points not including boosts that increase your gains. With boosts you could reasonably get 6-7 gold req packs a day with guaranteed unlocks for legendaries assuming you played the game right and unlocked all your uncommons and rares with silver packs first. That's potentially 6-7 top tier armor sets a day. In Halo Infinite you can play for 2 days potentially and unlock nothing but boosts. To even do that much, you have to spend at minimum ten dollars to even have access to the Battlepass. Not to mention, if you want to play campaign you need to spend sixty dollars for it as well. So, you're paying seventy dollars for less content and more microtransactions than Halo 5 had at launch for sixty. In Halo 5 you could also play campaign with your friends and set up custom games. You cannot do this in Infinite.
Now, it may be true that you're able to "buy what you want" with this system as it eliminates the randomness of loot boxes, but compared to Halo 5 you unlocked way more content for 200 dollars of req packs then you do by buying your way through the Battlepass. 200 dollars of REQ packs could potentially get you a good 125 armor sets for instance. This system took the randomness away but increased the price point for things exponentially, and shoved it full of padding. This is verifiably worse than Halo 5.
Edit: The twenty dollar shop packs have only slightly more content than a two dollar gold REQ pack. Less if you consider Halo 5 let you pick your own colors and you didn't have to unlock shaders like this is Destiny 2 lmao.
I guess starting next year we will see how dedicated 343i is to making Halo Infinite an absolute unit to compete with but right now this game begs for more content.
I can't help but wonder what Infinite would of looked like if they went all out with the open world with little to none development hell.
On the bright side, we might get bigger DLC campaigns. Blood and Wine introduced Toussaint, and a storyline that was pretty much an entire game in an of itself. I think 343i is still learning how handle the open world properly, but so far I think it's been pretty okay. The campaign feels like it lacks content, but it sure as hell felt like a solid character-driven story to me.
I love how you use the exact same team colours I do for multiplayer. That being pineapple and carrot. I do this to bring the game closest to the Bungie games (yellow friendly dots on my radar and a mix of orange-yellow for shield colours)
Did I miss something that stated that 343 has all control on store pricing or what because its weird how the focus on 343 and not Microsoft for these prices. I get it 6 years waiting for a proper halo installment and we all know that 343 have been open with us with development and everything else but did I miss some announcement about 343 being in control of the in store stuff because if that's the case then some higher up at 343 didn't really believe in Halo infinite's campaign having good sales
I mean im not sure how much they get from it being on gamepass.
No it was Microsoft, and I feel like Microsoft has made some other wrongs like the FOMO shop stuff.
Yes it’s 100% 343, Microsoft isn’t a game developer they’re a publisher. 343 like all dev studios has a business department that’s entire job is to develop monetization systems and strategies and they have done a horrible job.
@@Room81Ctism but said systems need to be approved by the publisher
@@Room81Ctism but Microsoft literally owns 343I, every decision no matter how small or insignificant must be approved by their publisher and owner.
Earning the fake currency, if they use the current challenge system for that they don't have to get rid of it entirely. Then they could give us xp for medals and actual performance not showboating that relies on RNG.
7:50 i choose to interpret this as "our community managers are poor" because i tend to agree with that idea. they're not the worst, they're not even bad, but their tone and tendency to get butthurt makes me thing they're not exactly cut out for CMing... just my two cents.
"I may have seemed a bit aggressive in this video"
That was aggressive? If this was aggressive then the more vocal and shouty videos from others are outright tyrannical!
very well worded. Far more civil than I deffo could have done.
So true!
Now this is what CONSTRUCTIVE criticism looks like. I've seen other channels that just dont get how to commentate on the matter: I'm happy to share this video.
I doubt it’ll ever happen but I think a perfect system for monetisation would be:
1) all armour, armour coatings and emblems are removed from the store as they are things that the main halo player base has been used to having access to for over a decade.
2) they should monetise the hell out of all the new stuff they’ve brought in, like charms, weapon modifications (aesthetic ones on out of course), vehicle modifications, stances, assassinations (eventually), etc.
This would allow them to still make a good amount of money, as plenty of people will be willing to pay for those, while also allowing the regular halo fan base to still have access to what they are used to.
@@slimerewoods5766 I don’t see how that’s so crazy? It’s things that halo players are used to having and used to just unlocking by playing. The emblem system in this game is the worst it’s ever been, even worse than 5s at launch. Only thing that’s cool about it is that you can now put it in more places than we used to be able to. I understand that it’s crazy to think it’ll ever happen, I know it won’t lol, but it would be nice
@@Calpol-gq3oe don’t mind Kami, I doubt they’re open minded about anything.
Did anyone notice how in the halo infinite technical preview some of the armor coatings didn't appear at launch? Did anyone else notice that cadet red (A base armor coating in the flight.) was changed to a different name and now has a $7 price tag on it for individual armor cores?
I did.
It's just crazy that you need to buy the $10 BP then pay double to have one armor set added into that customization bubble. This isn't reasonable
I agree with everything you said in the video, with the prices in the store the most expensive item shouldn’t be anymore then $5 in my opinion. So if they at least sell the armour, skins, ect in the store cheaper people would buy from the store more often and since this is a “10 year game” selling stuff in the store cheaper for people to buy it would make them more money in the long run. They have plenty of years from now that they’ll have heaps of battle passes that people will buy, dlc for campaign so they’ll definitely make there money back doing it if items were cheaper in the store.
I’m sorry to say it’ll never be 5 dollars, we have to compromise with 343 and Microsoft and probably land on a price range around 10-15 dollars, this would be the most efficient demand equilibrium, as players will be wayyy more willing to pay for the cosmetics and it will probably double the sales in the shop making it so the profit is either the same or more likely even higher than before. It’s the most profitable and fair way to fix this. Both parties win. It’s almost like Microsoft doesn’t understand basic Econ, right now it’s like there’s an artificial shortage driving up the prices that don’t meet fans actual demand, but if they lowered them you’d find that maximum sales equilibrium, and meet players actual demand for these armors in the shop, which would incline more paid and unpaid customers to buy from the shop, as well as bring in new players by undercutting your competitors with actual fair prices, creating even more potential paid customers.
@@echo1180 if we’re to compromise a price I think highest should be $10 and no more. I shouldn’t be having to pay a quarter the price of a game just for cosmetics. Like I said above though this is a game that will be around for a while and no mainline sequel, apparently will be getting one spinoff game probably a halo wars 3 or something else. This game is meant to be around for quite a few years with plenty of battle passes to come and most people will buy those passes so that’s already an easy $10 or $15 per person they are making money back on I don’t think we should be paying anymore then the pass itself for cosmetics. but I get what your saying though.
@@bothleopard06 Yea I’m just trying to find a solution that’s rooted in reality, don’t get me wrong $10 would be amazing and the perfect value for these sets imo, I just think that’s a bit of a reach considering all the F2P BS+Microsofts actions in general, and the best I think we can get it to is around 15 including tax. Microsoft wants it to be 20 and we want it to be 10, so we will most likely have to meet in the middle.
@@bothleopard06 I also think the most abhorrent thing is that originally the battlepass was 120 tiers and was going to have all the halo reach armor available in infinite in it, instead they ripped out 20 tiers and put them in the shop. We literally have a battlepass called hero’s of Reach with only 5 Reach armor sets and the rest being sold directly in the shop at that outrageous price. To add onto that these armors are literally assets and designs from older games we’ve already gotten. Everything in the shop should be disconnected from the battlepass, they should only put new and unique armors in the store, while giving us our Reach armor for free like originally intended. Sadly that will never happen unless we get a hero’s of Reach V2. Which is my only hope.
@@echo1180 will have to wait and see 343 did say they’ll look into the store, so maybe they’ll look at their numbers of players byibg stuff at the moment and the amount of criticism from players about the store and take it to their next meetings with daddy Microsoft. Hopefully maybe explain and tell them toning down the prices would encourage both free and paid players to buy more often and make both 343 and Microsoft more money in the long run. But will have to wait and see till then. The good thing is 343 has been good with responding back quickly and fixing issues quick at the moment so hopefully a nice middle ground is struck about store prices.
This game could have been perfect. It could have wiped the floor with it's competition. However, someone/some group behind the scenes got greedy and changed the plan, breaking the experience for us all.
I've seen a lot of people say that Infinite's store is the same as any other F2P first person shooter. And I'd agree. However, those games don't have a 10+ year history of entirely FREE COSMETIC UNLOCKS AND CUSTOMIZATION; starting with Halo 3, but becoming truly fleshed out in Halo: Reach. I'd say that at the VERY least, any and all armor unlocks should be found in the battle pass or events. They can keep coatings in the store. They can keep stances and emblems in the store. They can add additional A.I.'s and put them in the store. They can add whatever the fuck else they want to the store. But armor, particularly armor that you GOT FOR FREE 10 YEARS AGO IN REACH, should never be in anything other than the battle pass.
The reaction from the UX and production team and on the other hand the core games design team has been night and day. No excuses for the worst progression system for the best series in 10 years. What a joke. Makes mcc's awful progression system look good and mcc's cost £0 and is still shit.
Edit, from an investor perspective as someone interested in stocks. The avarage investor won't give a single FUCK about halo and any kind of progress of art or media. If you want progress start a union, workers co-op or public funded and accountable buisness. Traditional corporations are designed to eventually be irrelevant or fail, just like they always have. Making a good halo game with a AAA budget is too easy. Doing it under capitalism is incredibly fucking hard for a business that can't thing outside its very small box.
The only downside to the hypothetical “earn through gameplay” is that it would HAVE to be challenges, or have the battle pass give you at least 500 credits, even if you bought that battle pass it should NEVER total to 1,000 credits. It’s a battle pass that NEVER expires. If you were to finish that battle pass you’d get a free thousand to buy the next battle past almost any time you complete it, but… that also doesn’t give you anymore because you’d be spending ten dollars once and you’ll unlock everything while walking away with only a thousand credits. (It’s also depending when you have this awful pyramid scheme like a million years from now and it’s like season 8 or something) you could buy all battle passes immediately if all finished and with just ten dollars. I’m also speaking absolute nonsense, you could just take fifty percent off the 20 DOLLAR items on the store.
I have a sneaking suspicion that much of the pricing decisions are coming from up above even 343 themselves. They likely would *like* to say something about it (they've been vocal about everything except the pricing, which makes me think their silence is not by choice)
Me my squad have played halo since halo 3 and were already over the honey moon phase and back playing halo wars and mcc. Alienating is right. We talk about it while playing rocket league and other games just because we're sad and disappointed. We want to play and love the game. Cosmetics being so stingy and historically a staple of the series has brocken the game play loop of play a game change armour do coop. The campaign didn't even unlock any armour for 80 dollars ! (Canadian)
"As a free to play title, the store is understanding"
I totally get that. However, we didn't ask for F2P, in fact, we expected to pay for the game. And at this point, I would rather pay for the game if it meant their 'games as a live service' model would change.
Exactly, plus we're still expected to pay the full $60 for the campaign, with so little reflection of that purchase in multiplayer? Give me a break.
Exactly this, I would have paid my normal $60, maybe $80 for a Limited Edition with the right extras, and paid for DLC on a regular basis. Now, they are changing $60 for half of a Halo game, and deploying predatory practices in MP. I have Game Pass Ultimate, and I'm now skipping the entirely of the game. I am completely turned off by the abuse of the fanbase, intentional or not.
The whales in the community are those ruining halo. Dont buy the £20 skins and guess what, they will lower the prices. It aint rocket science. The worst part are some people are proud they got scammed and flex it like a gucci watch saying “not my problem i aint broke” missing the whole point whilst looking like a jackass
I love this take on stuff! I’m glad to see 343 still pushing to fix issues immediately and I’m glad they are being forward about stuff. Although we have many issues we all can’t forget we all have our own issues too and no one and nothing is perfect. But 343 in my eyes is one of the best companies in a long while!
Ok the shop is kinda aids, but can we please scale back the sbmm a little??? Please??? It's It's aggressive i don't even notice a difference between comp and quick play so why is there even a separate playlist?
I have no problem with the prices, I've bought every 20 bundle so far.
okay blueman
Really? I find that paying 20$ for a single set of armor is to much.
Well I really can't get more than the battlepass and most of the armor that I used to use in reach is missing
There are literally people praising 343 for the in game store right now from their holiday stream. I bet you its either 343 simps, trolls, fortnite kids, or a combination of all 3.
Hey LateNightGaming, did you know that the achievement art shows the completed Battle Pass being 120 ranks, supporting datamining that the Battle Pass was once longer and had at least more of the Reach armor in it? I don’t know what happened, but the possible, maybe even likely idea that the BP might have been gutted before launch just for more Store items is pretty sad. I just bring it up here because you hint at it in the video.
Wow really?
2:37 nft sellers:🤫
1:10
4:46 can you explain further why comparison of halo monetization and Valorant aren’t the same?
I’m interested to see what they’ll do for season 2, whether or not they’ll over compensate.
“This stench I’ve smelled it before”… Microsoft >:(