"We're all so good at recognizing what's shitty about something and how we fix it and we're all so bad at making something, so just make something bad and then criticize it until its good." - Level 70 creativity advice
The guys even tried to correct Harmon on the difference between cobwebs and spiderwebs. Why? What does that have to do with the interview? They weren't even right. There is a lot of confusion on the term outside scientific circles so to even assert one way or the other is ridiculous.
Dan is the fucking man. I finally started writing with his advice from his reddit AMA in the back of my head constantly. *Switch from team "I will one day write something good" to team "I have no choice but to write a piece of shit" and then take off your "bad writer" hat and replace it with a "petty critic" hat and go to town on that poor hack's draft and that's your second draft.*
Hank Chamm I'm not too bad... I'm sick for real this time and I've missed the first of many important weekly meetings... Illness is sweet. The best kind of Procrastination.
I don't know this show but when your guest is weaving this intricate analogy to answer a really good question you don't interrupt him to talk about cobwebs. Embarrassing.
yeah that annoyed the shit out of me, he legit try to disprove what Dan is saying, interrupts him and in fact what he's saying, is to not push yourself which is legit the worst advice I've ever heard xD gaahhhh
You doing an absolute shit job on a shitty art project no one likes still beats the critical fuckhead who has done literally nothing with their life. Harmon knows what's up.
He's not saying you should make something crappy and leave it that way cause it's better than those that didn't even try. He's saying don't stress over it sucking because that's how the refining process starts.
I have always been a writer. when I was young I had insomnia and an early bedtime. so my solution was to create fantasy worlds in my head till I fell asleep. but when it came time to put my words on the paper, way later in life, I had a problem. one was I wanted to do my worlds justice at least to justify all the time spent in my head. so I had the issues of taking myself too seriously. and two, there was so much of it. there was the cheesy version I wrote when I was a kid. the dark edge lord versions I wrote as a pre-teen. the philosophical babble version in my late teens. so I decided to just rewrite everything into one ultimate version. this headache taught me when to reign it in. but, more than that. it taghut me there is no right way to write a story. all those versions were as great as they were unique to me. they all had their purpose. they made me happy.
Damn, I consider myself a laid back guy and perhaps somewhat nihilistic but I just realized that what's holding me back the most is still taking life too seriously... I love talks like the these, thanks for sharing
+defenestrati Hehe good point. This is all advice he learned after success. Be an alcoholic narcissistic control freak first. Once that starts working out for you, you can start finding healthier lifestyle choices.
Hippo Potamus right. Nitpicking him on spider webs. Who the fuck does this dude think he is? He sounds like a freshman forgetting to raise his hand during a guest lecture.
iirc "dumb people town" is hosted by 3 people, i know two of which are the sklar brothers (hard to tell apart in interview because they're twins and sound mostly the same) they are at least better at comedy than interviewing lol but it's been 3 years so hopefully they've gotten better idk tho, after years of listening to comedians and writers i think wanting to be the most heard person in the room is just a really common trait
He's right about taking it seriously. Deadlines issue stress, and it forces me to think clearly and make something good. If I have plenty of time to write, I don't value what I make.
So basically, don't let perfect be the enemy of good. Spit something out, and then edit it to your liking. I remember hearing that the writers on Community were often encouraged to write bare bones "spit drafts" of scenes with placeholder dialogue just to get the story across, because writing dialogue/jokes and writing a story are two different things. If you can't get just the outline of a story across, it probably means the story doesn't work.
This is actually really good advice. I've been trying to write something better than what I would write for years, and it is pretty impossible. Hard to overcome that desire though.
I know they're busy but I'd love Dan Van Kirk and Dan Harmon to have their own podcast about writing and working in entertainment together. Their senses of humor and the master/apprentice aspect could work so well for them. I love the sklars and their podcasts, I'd still listen, but I'd love a different style from DVK as well.
Yes. I love this advice. As a ceramicist, you just have to make. I’ve made so many cups that separated from the wheel midway through or broke in the trimming phase, but the teapots and platters that actually survived are my favorite pieces. I gotta apply the same ethic to my writing. Just put words down. Info dump all my thoughts, then edit them, give them time, and go from there.
This really helped me alot! I started writing a book on mindfulness about a year and a half ago and I've fallen into the procrastination pit many times since. I just need to get it out there and criticize it afterwards!
The thing that Brian Grazer said reminds me of what Tina Fey said that Lorne Michaels told her about SNL: it doesn't go on because it's ready, it goes on because it's 11:30.
What he says about just shitting it out. That resonates with me totally, so many people get hung up on this idea of what good art is, but it can really get in the way of making actually starting and more importantly finishing ideas. That is how you learn, but actually finishing.
It's not about motivation (external/chance/finite), it's about discipline (internal/deliberate/generative). But the key to discipline is to understand that procrastination isn't a matter of attention - it's a matter of emotion. When presented with a task you know you should do, you assign it huge importance, and because of that you naturally hesitate, which your emotional mind interprets as yet another failure to follow through, which triggers self-hatred, which leads to denial and avoidance - ie procrastination. This then creates a feedback loop where self-hatred, avoidance, and inflated importance/urgency all spiral out of control. Effective discipline comes down to breaking the task down into its actual components and looking at them realistically by removing your emotional self-image from the equation. As Dan explains at 2:25. That's what Dan meant by lower the stakes at 2:21. Lower the stakes for your self-image/ego by assigning it less importance so that the resulting hesitation born of that critical-narcissist-avoiding-failure-voice Dan mentions at 5:29 can be avoided, and thus you won't hate yourself (as much), and you won't avoid your work.
Make your own deadlines and jobs, manage your own project and then shop it around to a studio or just self publish or self whatever... Animate? Do whatever you want, create the universe you want to reside within
It took me 20 seconds to realize that image of Dan Harmon was a still picture. I'm not sure what that says about me, Dan Harmon, or both. All I know is, after that, I'm probably not smart enough to follow any of the advice given after that 20 second mark...
harmon did a good job of getting his point across, which im thankful for bc if he let those guys talk over him with their nonsense the interview wouldve been wasted
This is very good. John August and Craig Mazin address this too in their "Scriptnotes" podcast. It comes down to letting the reader hang out in your brain before they deserve to be there. Why let a critic sit in your brain on your first draft? Tell them to get the f out of there! They have no business being there. Once they're gone, yes, shit some stuff out and make it better later. I am talking to myself here, too.
Hi, i didn't even watch the video yet but the first thing i thought was "good the co-creator of my favorite tv show giving advice on what i wanna do" This sentence above was verbalized with a moaning "noooooo".
How this went down; Making a point- make an analogy of point- bad explaining analogy- makes an point of explaining analogy- goes back into different point :p
"We're all so good at recognizing what's shitty about something and how we fix it and we're all so bad at making something, so just make something bad and then criticize it until its good." - Level 70 creativity advice
+AlxxShadenk777 This is true for you as well.
There are no good writers, only editors.
Chris Bauer If I did that I'd be making shit real and shit disappear. Fear the shit!
Chris Bauer thank you for writing it out seriously
Basically how I write anything to be honest.
Is Dan Harmon seriously THAT lazy that he didn't move during the entire interview?
He's so lazy he's a professional ventriloquist.
I'm going to put you in my will
seriously man, he didn't even blink
yea fat ass
Not until he absolutely had to.
He sums it up perfectly in the last sentence: "So just make something bad and just criticize it until it's good."
thank God I read comments. Listened to it 3 times with zero understanding :)
GOLD
@Rtkts you just gotta include a hammer into your criticism of the little shit. That's worked for me!
This is a common approach to writing software... Make it work, _then_ make it good.
Yep! As a writer who most enjoys the editing process, I think this is gold advice.
"It doesn't have to be good - it just has to exist." Something I need to repeat to myself every day.
Nah some stuff is better to never exist in the first place
BrandoTendie Are you a fan of the emoji movie or something
I know I love that.
Bad art existing is like water off a duck's back. Good art not existing is a tragedy.
@@willmcpherson2 well, nothing exists til you 'shit it out'
I hate interviewers who keep talking over their guests. Dan Harmon speaks so elegantly about his craft, just let him talk!
Yeah I wish that guy would shut up
The guys even tried to correct Harmon on the difference between cobwebs and spiderwebs. Why? What does that have to do with the interview? They weren't even right. There is a lot of confusion on the term outside scientific circles so to even assert one way or the other is ridiculous.
Or her!
This isn't an interview show
Dan always drops fucking jems when he's asked real questions, fucking well put
And when he teams up with Justin Roiland, Dan drops holograms, too!
Jeez, that reference though. Fucking hell, that was sweet.
It's annoying the host keeps interrupting with irrelevant comments that are completely despite the point though..
gyms*
Dan is the fucking man. I finally started writing with his advice from his reddit AMA in the back of my head constantly.
*Switch from team "I will one day write something good" to team "I have no choice but to write a piece of shit" and then take off your "bad writer" hat and replace it with a "petty critic" hat and go to town on that poor hack's draft and that's your second draft.*
Hi, procrastinating while listening to this, how are you?
Hank Chamm hi there I'm a little bored but I am too lazy to figure out something to do
Hank Chamm I'm not too bad... I'm sick for real this time and I've missed the first of many important weekly meetings... Illness is sweet. The best kind of Procrastination.
Does putting off sleep count?
Right on hahaha
I love the music on your channel. Sorry. Just felt like saying that.
The guy who isn't Dan Harmon needs to quit interrupting; this is important information.
I don't know this show but when your guest is weaving this intricate analogy to answer a really good question you don't interrupt him to talk about cobwebs. Embarrassing.
yeah that annoyed the shit out of me, he legit try to disprove what Dan is saying, interrupts him and in fact what he's saying, is to not push yourself which is legit the worst advice I've ever heard xD gaahhhh
Yeah that guys a tool
A lot of interviewers these days really only care about making themselves more popular. Not the interview itself at all.
Imagine being so oblivious as to interrupt a brilliant writer giving sage advice to try to impress people with your knowledge of spiderwebs.
I love this... essentially, it's all crap, but if you do it, it's better than everyone else who never did
You doing an absolute shit job on a shitty art project no one likes still beats the critical fuckhead who has done literally nothing with their life. Harmon knows what's up.
He's not saying you should make something crappy and leave it that way cause it's better than those that didn't even try.
He's saying don't stress over it sucking because that's how the refining process starts.
I added this to my "watch later"
gene stovicek so did i lol it’s two years later and I’m finally watching it
well did you watch it later?
I have always been a writer. when I was young I had insomnia and an early bedtime. so my solution was to create fantasy worlds in my head till I fell asleep. but when it came time to put my words on the paper, way later in life, I had a problem. one was I wanted to do my worlds justice at least to justify all the time spent in my head. so I had the issues of taking myself too seriously. and two, there was so much of it. there was the cheesy version I wrote when I was a kid. the dark edge lord versions I wrote as a pre-teen. the philosophical babble version in my late teens. so I decided to just rewrite everything into one ultimate version. this headache taught me when to reign it in. but, more than that.
it taghut me there is no right way to write a story. all those versions were as great as they were unique to me. they all had their purpose. they made me happy.
Thank you for sharing this
This is actually amazingly motivational.
was not expecting to see autism cat here XD
Hail
Maxmoefoe
"Every once in a while, Annie reaches down her shirt and pulls out a laser bomb"
Damn, I consider myself a laid back guy and perhaps somewhat nihilistic but I just realized that what's holding me back the most is still taking life too seriously... I love talks like the these, thanks for sharing
I read it as "laid black guy".
too much IR porn
I read it as too much VR porn...
Bear in mind that the guy saying that is financially secure.
+defenestrati Hehe good point. This is all advice he learned after success.
Be an alcoholic narcissistic control freak first. Once that starts working out for you, you can start finding healthier lifestyle choices.
Love how this interviewer derails his guests meaningful answer to his question with arbitrary facts about spider webs.
I listen to this every morning now
This has been on my “Watch Later” list forever.
The worst part is that this video had been trapped in my watch later playlist for so long
Ghotiburger lol relatable
"It doesn't have to be good - it just has to exist."
That's what my parents said about me!
"Dan Harmon Writing Advice/Avoiding Procrastination"
Me, procrastinating while watching this video: *b i g b r a i n t i m e*
This host needs to shut up and let the man talk. Jesus, that got annoying fast.
Hippo Potamus right. Nitpicking him on spider webs. Who the fuck does this dude think he is? He sounds like a freshman forgetting to raise his hand during a guest lecture.
Who is the host? He sounds awful.
iirc "dumb people town" is hosted by 3 people, i know two of which are the sklar brothers (hard to tell apart in interview because they're twins and sound mostly the same)
they are at least better at comedy than interviewing lol but it's been 3 years so hopefully they've gotten better
idk tho, after years of listening to comedians and writers i think wanting to be the most heard person in the room is just a really common trait
He's right about taking it seriously. Deadlines issue stress, and it forces me to think clearly and make something good. If I have plenty of time to write, I don't value what I make.
It sorta sounds like a sober, well adjusted Rick.
"I think I'm go -buuurp!- gonna mitigate that for the k-kids listening..."
This is one of the most beautiful things I've ever heard.
it's amazing how long he can talk without moving an inch. Can't even see him breathe or blink.
Ventriloquism is a lost art
So basically, don't let perfect be the enemy of good. Spit something out, and then edit it to your liking.
I remember hearing that the writers on Community were often encouraged to write bare bones "spit drafts" of scenes with placeholder dialogue just to get the story across, because writing dialogue/jokes and writing a story are two different things. If you can't get just the outline of a story across, it probably means the story doesn't work.
This is actually really good advice. I've been trying to write something better than what I would write for years, and it is pretty impossible. Hard to overcome that desire though.
I added this video to my Watch Later playlist several months ago and finally just listened to it
Wow this is honestly some of the best advice I've heard for writing.
The scene in the video Falco --- so great to see how a crazy creative mind works.
I know they're busy but I'd love Dan Van Kirk and Dan Harmon to have their own podcast about writing and working in entertainment together. Their senses of humor and the master/apprentice aspect could work so well for them. I love the sklars and their podcasts, I'd still listen, but I'd love a different style from DVK as well.
Cob is an archaic word for spiders. so cobweb = Spiderweb. Though we might not use them in the same context, the words have the same meaning
This interviewer was not good, loved what Dan was saying tho
I think this might seriously be the best writing advice I've ever heard.
Yes. I love this advice. As a ceramicist, you just have to make. I’ve made so many cups that separated from the wheel midway through or broke in the trimming phase, but the teapots and platters that actually survived are my favorite pieces. I gotta apply the same ethic to my writing. Just put words down. Info dump all my thoughts, then edit them, give them time, and go from there.
Couldn't you be around six months ago, before my deadline in three weeks ?
Also this was in my watch later list. Marvelous.
This really helped me alot! I started writing a book on mindfulness about a year and a half ago and I've fallen into the procrastination pit many times since. I just need to get it out there and criticize it afterwards!
I am amazed at Harmons ventriloquism. His mouth didn't move at all!!!
I'm listening to the first half, I'll watch the rest later.
When it comes to procrastination in my life I've learned that 9/10 I suffer less if I do shit earlier than "last second".
I added this video to my "Watch Later..." Ugh. I'm never gonna beat the block, am I?
Ryan Schaefer hahahahaha
Did you beat it?
I added this video to my “Watch Later” and now I’m finally watching it after months
You wrote a comment, that's something
This is a fantastic bit. I love Dan Harmon so much.
so the secret to being good at a craft is being good troubleshooting, and to do it alot . Got it.
Nothing better than a video about procrastinating to get you motivated
That last comment was great, just make something bad and criticize it until it's good. That's pretty deep editing philosophy
I love how I can hear Rick's voice in Justin. He even stutters occasionally.
This was so helpful! I really feel like it's something that needs to be constantly reaffirmed when you're on your creative journey
Added this video to my 'watch later'.
Thx Dan I needed that and I look forward to working with you some day soon.
The thing that Brian Grazer said reminds me of what Tina Fey said that Lorne Michaels told her about SNL: it doesn't go on because it's ready, it goes on because it's 11:30.
Just keep making it. Refinement evolves through the process naturally.
"Make something bad and then criticize it til it's good." My new words to live by
Thnks for the inclusive language Dan, while talking about the spiders. Loviu
Please stop interrupting great rants from a smart person with a silly joke about cobwebs.
The way I needed to hear this.
*saves video to Watch Later playlist*
What he says about just shitting it out. That resonates with me totally, so many people get hung up on this idea of what good art is, but it can really get in the way of making actually starting and more importantly finishing ideas. That is how you learn, but actually finishing.
This is helpful. If you treat the work like an iterative exercise that you develop and not lot a high pressure nightmare it’s easier
It's not about motivation (external/chance/finite), it's about discipline (internal/deliberate/generative). But the key to discipline is to understand that procrastination isn't a matter of attention - it's a matter of emotion. When presented with a task you know you should do, you assign it huge importance, and because of that you naturally hesitate, which your emotional mind interprets as yet another failure to follow through, which triggers self-hatred, which leads to denial and avoidance - ie procrastination. This then creates a feedback loop where self-hatred, avoidance, and inflated importance/urgency all spiral out of control.
Effective discipline comes down to breaking the task down into its actual components and looking at them realistically by removing your emotional self-image from the equation. As Dan explains at 2:25.
That's what Dan meant by lower the stakes at 2:21. Lower the stakes for your self-image/ego by assigning it less importance so that the resulting hesitation born of that critical-narcissist-avoiding-failure-voice Dan mentions at 5:29 can be avoided, and thus you won't hate yourself (as much), and you won't avoid your work.
Great video man, thanks for posting!
“Just shit it out” and “it doesn’t have to be good it just has to exist” what a great quote!
I thought he was Slavoj Zizek...
Maybe one of the most entangeling and purest human beings in all of Entertainment ever.
Great perspective. Makes sense. I'mma try this out. Thanks!
I added this to my watch later
There is a good pressure and a funny pressure, both can work wonders
I’ll put this in my watch later
Nobody talks about it,but the sleeves on the picture do that "moving" optic illusion
Dan Harmon is an Underrated genius
this couldn't be more helpful
His realness is beautiful 💫
I love this guy.
Make your own deadlines and jobs, manage your own project and then shop it around to a studio or just self publish or self whatever... Animate? Do whatever you want, create the universe you want to reside within
lol good luck with that
Rowlo Eightyeight cant all be leaders and your own boss.
Harmon always knocks you down a peg in a very constructive way.
It took me 20 seconds to realize that image of Dan Harmon was a still picture. I'm not sure what that says about me, Dan Harmon, or both. All I know is, after that, I'm probably not smart enough to follow any of the advice given after that 20 second mark...
Great (and TRUE) advice. Just get it out, can go/sculpt from there. "Get it to exist". Good stuff, thank you!
My god... this is good advice.
harmon did a good job of getting his point across, which im thankful for bc if he let those guys talk over him with their nonsense the interview wouldve been wasted
who is this goddam interviewer who keeps interrupting these amazing answers jfc
This is very good. John August and Craig Mazin address this too in their "Scriptnotes" podcast. It comes down to letting the reader hang out in your brain before they deserve to be there. Why let a critic sit in your brain on your first draft? Tell them to get the f out of there! They have no business being there. Once they're gone, yes, shit some stuff out and make it better later. I am talking to myself here, too.
Hi,
i didn't even watch the video yet but the first thing i thought was "good the co-creator of my favorite tv show giving advice on what i wanna do"
This sentence above was verbalized with a moaning "noooooo".
Focus on the process, not on the results. It's more about how satisfied you are with your routine.
Finally watched Amadeus because of this. I can concede, my writing is closer to taking a shit.
He sounds like a voice actor for Rick, but he is not somehow
Mint Willow He's bird person and Ice T
You’re so right. He probably could do a pretty good Rick, honestly lol
You can hear him do rick on harmon town a time or two. It is not great.
I'll put that on my "watch later" list.
Oh no...
reminder
This here is really helpful and so true.
This cured my procrastination
That guy's procrastinating working out
I've come to a point in my life in which it doesn't matter if I succed or not, I just want to go to bed tired and unfrustrated.
Dan Harmon, thank you for this. I will see you when I become an even shittier writter and maybe we could work together.
This is more helpfull than I thought.
I think we all agree that Dan should do a podcast each week about life.
"Don't bother with the jokes. Eat lots and lots of food."
Last 4 seconds are the most important lesson
Nice advice from Slavoj Zizek
How this went down; Making a point- make an analogy of point- bad explaining analogy- makes an point of explaining analogy- goes back into different point :p
Brilliant. Idk what therapist he goes to, but sign me up.
So what I took from this is that every time Spider-Man shoots webs it's like he needs to take a shit.