I actually have a theory regarding Luna's seemingly limited role in governing Equestria. Given her absence from Equestrian society, and the numerous changes that have likely occurred following her banishment, it is possible that Luna may be easing herself back into a position of greater responsibility. Furthermore, among her duties listed is protecting Equestria at night, implying that she may be serving as a sort of night watch-mare.
More in just utter freedom to do whatever she wanted. Just revel in her power and strength. Likely not a case of going out and trying to burn everything, so much as simply letting lose and everything being burned as collateral damage.
I'm glad you mentioned the comic. I loved it and was a bit disappointed that this was so...much less well done... also celestia has now had littarly 3 episodes centered on her... sad..... luna fan. But celestia has proven to be a good ruler
Ive seen a lot of the headcanons involving the wasteland timeline. I mean there’s literally nothing there so it’s open to interpretation. My headcanon: that’s cozy’s universe. She sucked out ALL the pony magic in equestria. Earth ponies have no control over agriculture and the environment Pegasi have no control over the weather And unicorns are just as useless as the other races. Long story short, animals dont live, the environment dosent thrive because ponies cannot do anything. Creating famine and overall chaos. Windigos return and they also have no magic to feed on... patrick: EVERYTHING DIES. THE END!!!
As someone who has had prior experience with dream study, aswell as seeing many dream fiction, I think it was more the former with Daybreaker that Starlight dreamed her up aswell as nightmare moon. But it was Celestia entering the Nightmare that caused Daybreaker to appear as Starlight began to focus on Celstia, which by extension Daybreaker did because that is who the dreamer was currently focusing on. If we go back to the Tantabus a creature that conjures your worst nightmares, then we can understand that when one pony dreams of another the nightmare can spread, it is possible normal dreams work this way aswell, but that may contradict my previous statement. Either way I think Glim-Glam was the creator of Daybreaker, and upon seeing it Celestia began to doubt herself which fueld it. I suppose you could consider this akin to say the madness of two?
hmmm. starlight glimmer has had a traumatic event in her past, has a fear of change and prefers staying in her comfort zone, has difficulty conveying her emotions out of fear of losing her friends, fears people will judge her for her past actions, and on top of everything else has nightmares caused by excessive worry and stress. call me crazy but i think the writers of MLP are giving Starlight Glimmer an Anxiety disorder...
Curti Burm Twilight = Pony Who Didn't notice Her friends at all as filly, Is Number 1 student of QUEEN, Has incredible Magic, a Dragon slave, Has magic destiny suddenly, Needs life in town Filled with crazy ponies and becomes a princess with giant castle.
One possible "Map Quest" I would personally like to see would be Spike and Discord being called on for a mission together. Oh, the chaos that would ensue.
Well dragons do magic with their breath... So spike would probably get a swirl of green fire, telling him where to go on the map, and flaming hickups instead of a blinking cutie mark... As for discord... I'd guess tornado... (Possibly with the mark materialising on him... )
FrankenXANA Yea. Spike has alweys been *back character, the kid that people hate in movies*. he deserves more than just being A small slave to the ponies. If thinking deeply, Spike Was Kidnapped by ponies to their *magic science*.
I honestly like to believe that Day Breaker was indeed from Celestia herself influencing the dream with her own thoughts and subtle fears about this dream and her job of helping guide ponies within their dreams.
When it comes to who the more important ruler is, I say they are both still relatively equal even if we don't see it upfront. Celestia is the face of the kingdom. The figurehead at the top of everything. Should she legit vanish for an extended period then that would cause the people to panic. Then you have Luna, a non-figurehead type. She vanishes the people won't really notice but it will still effect the work of the figurehead and those around because she was an important part of keeping the machine working at optimal levels. Sure Equestria has stayed strong in Luna's absence, but when Luna in the episode brought up how the nightmare could damage Starlight's psyche if nothing was done then one has to wonder how many ponies slowly built up mental issues over the years and how many succumbed to such damage because Luna wasn't there for them being a warden to more pleasant dreams?
What if Starlight started having cutie mark related nightmares as a child after the Sunburst incident. Luna wouldn't have been there to intervene and prevent any psychological damage, so....
And I just realized why Luna is important She keeps everyone sain or content. Think about it, if she was never banished to the moon, then starlight would have never turned evil or mad at cutimarks
well, first things off my chest, i gotta say that you both doing a collab is something amazing :D that was a great colab with lots of theories, all of which have good arguments to support them all. I specially love the map theory with Starlight's magic, and how Trixie could be called as well. An episode that i'd love to see would be one where the map calls both Trixie and Twillight. I love how this analysis ended, Viva the ferals :D
Gotta agree with you, Tricky. I'm of the opinion that Starlight got the dream started, even created the Daybreaker avatar, but at that point some of Celestia, due to her own fears and not being an expert with the dream magic, mixed in and made Daybreaker even more "on model" as the dark side of Celestia, or at least her fears of her own dark side. Daybreaker's dialog and personality are just too spot on to have been only Starlight's doing.
My theory is that the Ashlands Timeline is what happened when Celestia suffered a brain injury that impaired her judgment and self-control, and she couldn't be incapacitated and Unichained fast enough.
I would like to make a comment on Nightmare and Day Breaker. The way they are both portrayed is a means of showing ego. Both have a lack of ego but treat is differently. (I would redirect you to Silver Quill's video on Nightmare Moon's universe for some background) We have Nightmare Moon who has her subjects feed her ego, Chrysalis who pulls everyone else down to lift her ego and Day Breaker who pushes others opinions away to sustain her ego. Would Day Breaker really be willing to let anyone else voice their opinion if it was one putting down her image? She is consistently telling Celestia that she doesn't NEED anyone else, that she should have DESTROYED Luna. I would say that Nightmare Star focused on a different aspect of Celestia... Maybe one that would result in a BETTER future than the rule of Day Breaker. Nightmare Star having a rule similar to Nightmare Moon, for instance, would be better than Day Breaker leaving behind a barren wasteland where she stood alone and ruled. At the end when Day Breaker defeats Nightmare Moon? Nightmare Moon sought revenge and wanted to imprison her sister in the Moon while Day Breaker had no mercy to spare. No mercy would be given to Nightmare Moon, so why would any be given to the ponies of Equestria? Any of your thoughts on this?
15:15 "Could anypony who interacted with the Map while learning a friendship lesson be considered worthy of a mission?" Big Mac, Spike, and Discord from 'Dungeons and Discords'. Right there in the throne room, playing a tabletop game ON the map, Discord was able to learn to admit his insecurities and his loneliness while Spike and Big Mac learned to accept him for who he is and encourage him to play the game his own way to make it fun for everyone.
4:26 I think the meaning of the episode comes later but also I think while magic isn't the solution for everything it doesn't mean it can't solve certain problems. Not to mention she didn't have many option if those 2 got too heated they could have to Canterlot into soot.
I thought the reason it picked Starlight was because A. She was powerful enough with magic to do what she did. And B. She was the only one out of all of them, that wasn't biased.
Tricky Fox Maybe it just calls on ponies who it thinks is right for the job? I think of the Map as a being of it's own really. It sends ponies (associated with the Mane 6 anyway) on missions to teach others friendship lessons, while learning lessons themselves. It may build up to something. One of my theories (which may have been done already but idk if it has) is that Starswirl the Bearded, is somehow Trapped in the Map, or the Tree which is connected to the Map. Kinda like Merlin from Once Upon A Time. It's a bit far fetched but... You never know. It's clear the Map has Cutie Mark magic. It calls on ponies by their Cutie Marks. And it fixed the Cutie Mark problem in this episode. When Starlight said that them switching back wasn't her doing, and at the exact same time was called back, I thought of the map doing that. (Because was it Sunset when the Cutie Marks were switched?). So idk, maybe Starswirl is preparing Twilight and her friends for something big? Maybe get him out of the Tree (or map)? I think that would be a cool path to go down. But it's just a theory.
6:19 Ponies usually work and do things during the day, so Celestia holds more time with the upper class. The fact dignitaries were there at night is unusual.
While the whole "Starlight helped fix it, which put her magic into the map" theory is nice, I can't help but point out that Starlight was the very FIRST map mission, and that it's entirely possible that Marble Butt was always on the map's radar from the moment the Tree of Harmony sprouted that box, and it's only now that Starlight has reached the point where she can properly enact the map's plans
Also, I don't see any reason why the map would be *limited* to only some ponies... or always sending two? This was Starlight's solo mission -- and I can really see *why*. This was *needed*. It's a classic. You two both think the other one has things easy?We'll see about that, change roles until you have learned your lesson... details of *how* vary. Starlight's only one who would even think to make Celestia and and Luna go trough it. For that, she *also* needed to go about it alone. I think the map sends whoever are *needed* and best able to do what needs doing. For CMC, well -- the mission could well be: Cutiemark related and/or one of those involved is their age or younger and doesn't really relate to adults. (and they can get away with some things *because* they're young).
The only problem with "The map can send whoever is needed" is a simple one that everyone overlooks. What if the non-group pony doesn't want to go? Suppose Lyra doesn't WANT to go to Fillydelphia to save friendship? What if Roseluck is deathly allergic to Yak fur and refuses to go to Yakyakistan? Twilight can't FORCE them to go, despite being a princess, and then the world is kinda fucked. I could see the CMC being sent, as they obviously have a rather special destiny of their own, but I think it's restricted to those ten ponies
I say that when Nightmare Moon was banished to the moon, she and Luna went into kinda like a hibernation state. And since Luna is connected to the dream realm, THAT'S where she spent her all her 1000 years. Helping others. But not revealing herself. Or, Nightmare Moon could've had a hand in that so they didn't recognize Luna. So she still would be portrayed as evil. And probably kept Luna away from Celestia when she slept too.
I believe Daybreaker was not Starlight's dream, but Celestia's. She could have formed because Celestia isn't used to entering dreams and wouldn't know how to avoid combining her own into it. I see Daybreaker as a manifestation of Celestia's negative traits, her occasional pride and neglect for Luna's feelings, magnified and without her positive traits to balance them out. Daybreaker is Celestia's shadow, a concept in Jungian psychology that represents the traits we suppress and deny about ourselves, or even project them onto others instead of seeing what we dislike about ourselves. Just like Luna had the potential to become Nightmare Moon when she was overcome by her envy and loneliness, Celestia could become Daybreaker if she turned evil and was overcome by vanity and the belief she was above all others. Daybreaker could be Celestia's dark side and the doubts and fears she has over what she could become if she didn't restrain her power or care about anybody other than herself; she fears what she is capable of and what she could be willing to do if she became drunk with power.
I really hope there's a future episode where a pony we've never seen before gets called by the map out of the blue. There's a lot of story potential there: some average Joe pony is minding their own business when suddenly their cutie mark starts flashing, shortly after the Princess of Friendship visits them and tells them they have to go to some far-flung part of Equestria they never met. This could go in several directions: having doubts as to why they would be chosen and feeling there must have been some mistake, Mane Six fanboys who jump at the chance to work alongside their idols only to discover it's not as glamorous as they hoped, or just thinking the whole thing is just an elaborate prank. This is a gold mine for episode ideas, and I really hope they capitalize on it for the next season.
I saw Daybreaker as Starlight's view of Celestia falling. During the episode, we definitely saw a more arrogant Celestia than I think we're used to. She full well believed she had the harder job and when Luna retired you could see the classic older sister "I told you so" forming on her lips. I don't think for a second that Starlight, as clever as she is, would have missed that fact. Considering Celestia's dialogue and Starlight's view of her Daybreaker could have very well just have been what Starlight believed an evil Celestia would have been like. Celestia, on the other hand, was straight up shown her worst traits in the eyes of another. So it makes sense she would doubt herself
That actually makes some degree of sense. They had to find the map and work through their problems, so by that logic, the map has deemed them both worthy (though, we'll have to wait and see if the map applies to Trixie now).
I would be interested in seeing an episode of Trixie and Pinkie Pie solve a friendship problem. Because both of them have flare and drama working for them, Pinkie can practicalize nearly any special effect, and Trixie is a goddess among show ponies, reveling in the crowd's reactions and cheers. And have that be the solution, while both of them come to respect each other's way of sharing their specific motives: Pinkie wanting to spread cheer for other ponies, while Trixie wants to BE cheered by others. Both methods that can bring smiles to ponies that enjoy the dazzle and crazy antics of visual special effects, something both Trixie and Pinkie can give. Thoughts???
"One cannot manipulate the cutie marks of others without being changed themselves from within". Am I the only one that thought of Seven of Nine from Star Trek Voyager? There is an episode where Seven of Nine started having the equivalent of multiple personality disorder, as the mental impressions of those she had assimulated attempted to gain control of her body - even attempting to kill the mental impression of Seven of Nine herself. What if some thing similar occurs in Starlight's dreams and Luna has been helping her out since her reformation?
I'm not sure if Daybreaker was the result of Starlight's imagination and Celestia's insecurities. When Luna advised Celestia how to defeat Daybreaker, she had referred to her by name without any one else saying so. Under normal circumstances, this could be explained by saying that her dream magic allowed her to read the minds of other ponies (such as the CMCs in their separate dream episodes), but here, it was already established that Celestia's magic (which Luna had) doesn't work in the dream realm. So how could Luna know Daybreaker's name? My headcanon says that Daybreaker had actually existed at some point in the past.
Ripple Effect MLP I'm pretty sure there was an exchange between day breaker and Celestia that went something like: "I'm everything you wish you were" and in response Celestia said something like "no I will never be you, not again" although I may be wrong. I'll have to rewatch that particular part but it seems there may be a case for Celestia having turned into day breaker before as evidenced by the words not again. I'll make another reply after I rewatch that part.
Okay so the exchange word for word was: "you can't destroy me. I'm everything you want to be." Celestia responds: "no you are not. you are not real. And you will never exist again." that last sentence is why think there may be more to day breaker than just this one episode. "you will never exist again". although this may be just a throwaway line as evidenced by the previous sentence "you are not real". However I think it makes sense in the context of the episode. Celestia says "no you are not" responding to day breakers claim that she's everything Celestia wants to be. she then asserts that day breaker isn't real. My interpretation is that she means that the day breaker we see is only a creation of starlights/celestias mind and therefore not real. and lastly "you will never exist again" my interpretation is that Celestia is admitting that day breaker has existed in the past but Celestia will ensure that she never exists again. of course you may think differently about the last two lines based on your interpretation. Celestia could mean that day breaker isn't real in general and that she will never exist in her/their minds again.
I find it interesting that we see the what the dark sides of the princess is like. We have Nightmare moon in Luna, Daybreaker in Celestia, and Midnight Sparkle in Twighlight (if you consider EG to correlate) In all 3 of these you see what happens when they focused on power and became overcome with it. Like the saying goes, Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely. The princesses provide a check on each other and when they began to think their job is harder they began to think they are stronger. Thus, it was important for Starlight to force them to attempt the others tasks and to humble them. I only wonder what Cadence's corrupt form would be like. And how it would manifest. I really enjoyed this episode as it opened up interesting possibilities, gave development and sparked a few interesting questions. Tho I do wish they had a bit more focus on the governing aspect of Celestia's job, and had Celestia attempt to fix a few simple nightmares first. Tho I don't think the episode suffered without them.
I agree, it would be a surprise to see an evil Cadence. Off the top of my head I'm not sure how they would introduce and write that episode. I could potentially see something like, she is stressed and is growing irritated and mad. And that maybe her and Shinning Armor are having a fight. Now that would be a rather interesting moral lesson. Working through marital problems.. how it is a team effort. And that you won't always agree, but that love is an action that must be applied and not solely an emotion.
Here's another possibility to how the map may choose others, it is connected to all of equestria and is an extension of the tree of harmony and it's powers. So it is capable of calling on anypony that it deems fit for the job but it would keep to the main six and the friends they have made most likely. Now where's the evidence of what I said at first from?? From the very episode that was reviewed in this video. When their cutie marks were returned to the correct sister, Starlight said she didn't do this, and by her saying this, it most likely means that it has not been 24 hours either, so who could send the cutie marks back is starlight already said she couldn't do it at all?? Well it's not a who, but a what, the cutie map and the power of harmony that uses it to extend across equestria.
This was a very informative video! In regards to the theory about the Cutie Map, I'm mostly in agreement. The idea of any character being called by the map if they've interacted with it and proved themselves worthy after a friendship test, then Trixie has the potential to be called by the map along with Starlight if "All Bottled Up" is of any indication. Also, going off of the idea of characters apart from the Mane 6 using the map, if Sunset Shimmer was to return to Equestria (and stay) at any point in the future, would it be possible for her to be called by the map? Since she wields what could technically be counted as the human world's version of the Elements of Harmony, would she have to prove herself to the map in order to be called? Or since she's already proven herself in the human world, will the map call her without having her interact with it?
EQG has a separate canonicity from FiM, so Sunset will never be seen in the show. That's why Starlight was created, to serve as Sunset's replacement in Equestria.
BNuts Except FiM and EQG are going to cross over when the third EQG special comes out in the summer. Meanwhile, I highly doubt Starlight was created as a replacement for Sunset; she was simply supposed to be another anti-Twilight character like Trixie and Sunset before her. That doesn't necessarily mean she was meant to replace Sunset. If that really was the case, I have a few criticisms on that idea.
Just before Season 6 premiered, I posted the thought that the map should send the CMC on missions (perhaps with one of the Mane 6 going with them), and that they would be Princess Twilight's valiant cutie mark knights. The idea of solving cutie mark problems across Equestria was actually covered in the first CMC episode of Season 6, but that's probably coincidence. I don't think I gave much thought to why the map would do that. Just that the CMC are associated with the Mane 6, and that the map and the Tree of Harmony are basically connected to the Gods of Equestria, Powers That Be, etc. Thus, it knows who to send where to solve friendship problems that have a large impact in the long run. The map knew Starlight was the right pick because of what she would likely do in that situation, and it knows how complete her redemption is. Heck, it sent them to stop her in the first place. It may focus on the chosen ones, but it is capable of sending others. This really gives us the chance to have more map episodes than just 3-5 per season. Don't want the younger viewers to forget that element of the story. Also, I wonder if Twilight, just for the sake of fairness and Princess Oversight Obligation, should pop in on her other friends during their missions using Haycart's method. It would be funny if she scared Rarity by speaking from a poster behind her. LOL. On the subject of chosen ones, I like the official ambassador title that Pinkie got, and Silver Quill's previous joke about her being the Grand Duchess of Friendship. I liked the Honorary Yak thing to. :) I wonder if the others should one day get royal titles and jobs. I don't think it's necessary or advisable for them all to become alicornes, but that would sure be fun to look at.
I believe that when Luna got bannished to the moon, Celestia took over the role of Dreamguiding the ponies of Equestria. Yet then we have the problem that in the episode Celestia was dealing with that role pretty baddly so... Yeah it's pretty confusing.
I think the starlight using magic in this episode was more due to the fact that she acted completely out of her instincts without actually thinking about it at all. See it this way Twilight has a tendency to overthink everything but then runs into the danger of not actually doing anything do to her fearing it could go wrong. Starlight is on the other end of that spectrum and tends to completely act out of instinct without thinking about it, however when things the go wrong she has to deal with the consequences.
I think Luna is dealing with way more nightmares then we see. It maybe seems like a blink of an eye to us and the pony. For Luna it's a very long work night until the night is over. And I think Celestia did the same just that we only saw two dreams.
I have to go back and look, but the Ogres and Oubliettes game was play out on the map table, right. What if Spike, Big Mac, and Discord got call out on a mission? That would be a cool story.
As I said earlier in the Dr. Wolf/Teric review, I find it interesting that Luna knew Daybreaker's name with no introduction. As though she has seen her before. We have also seen how it is a relatively trivial matter for Luna to take one or two dreaming ponies with her between dreams and how the dream realm is its own existence. Given that nearly every aspect in Equestria seems to be touched by magic to one extent or another it is not hard to picture a massive shared subconscious. And when we consider that Twilight's visions when confronting a certain power hungry centaur were very dream like in how the presented themselves, it seems possible that through the dream realm everything that is, was, or can be may be accessed. Therefore I propose that Starlight was able to tap this undercurrent of knowledge to know what Nightmare Moon looked like and that Luna had previously encountered Daybreaker, perhaps even quashing that dream before Celestia was even aware of it.
Yeah Luna knowing Daybreakers name was a bit of a plot hole i noticed as well. But it didn't really fit into the script that why I didn't brought it up^^ I think it's simply an oversight^^
The map is an interface with the Tree of Harmony. The tree is sentient or at least as far as the ebb and flow of magic is concerned. It know there was an imbalance with the sisters, and it also knew that sending Twilight or any of the other mane six would be a case of they wouldn't want to upset the princesses. The only one not to stand on ceremony is Starlight Glimmer. That's why it sent her alone, too - so the mane six couldn't talk her out of doing what was needed.
One idea on how Starlight could've created a "Day Breaker Timeline". Before the Summer Sun festival happens, Celestia, in desperation, finds ponies whom she hastily deems worthy to wield the Elements of Harmony to confront Nightmare Moon. However, the plan fails and the ponies she entrusted the mission to are severly injured in the process. Realizing the mistake she made, entrusting such a dangerous mission to little ponies, Celestia confronts Nightmare Moon herself. During their battle, Celestia starts to lose and has no choice but to go all out for the first time in her life. Convinced that her sister cannot be saved, she ends Nightmare Moon. With Luna gone and the Elements rendered useless, a grieving Celestia realizes that Equestria is vulnerable. But after having tasted the full potential of her power, she slowly realizes "the truth". She has held herself back. She has ruled Equestria alone for a thousand years without help and convinces herself that she doesn't need Luna to rule a thousand more. Celestia becomes Day Breaker. And as followed, Day Breaker ensures that Equestria remains forever safe, beneath her scorching sun. Villains like Discord, Chrysalis and Sombra are taken out quickly and ponies are forced to show everlasting devotion and loyalty to Day Breaker, less they be burned by her.
In my opinion, this episode was set up better than story in comics, where you could argue that Luna want to rule a day and disagree with her sister with no reason. Both are funny, but here ending is much more touching and emotional. And, I know theres a balance beetween importance of sisters as they are day and night, but day is more active time for ponies, so yes, it makes way more sense that Celestia is their main ruler, especialy since Luna was on the moon for so long. She is the younger sister, so in that way, she will never be a main ruler. But, this episode and many others shows that her call is begin adviser, strong and conforting soul that can help more when she is focus in invidual problem then a mass. Oposit to her sister Celestia (who again, in comic just go to SPA for whole day, what a great story for her...) who is much better as a monarch, she is able to putting smile that is not fake and make others belive in her. She is working hard on it by begin truthfull to her subjects, while we know how socialy awkward Luna can be. As for Daybraker, we all know the story of Nightmare moon and how she started when Luna was more and more lonly, and later become power hungry wonting attention and love (that she later gain by entering dream realm and becoming the one who help others in their bad dreams). In Daybraker we lack this, as she only thinks about herself and is power hungry, why? Because she is not real. And my theory is she turn out this way only because she is in Starlight imagination. And Starlight been there, she wanted whole villige to act exacly like she wants. And she knows now that she was wrong, and thats why Daybraker have almost no redeeming qualities. She looks cool, she is powerfull, but noting else. She is pure evil because is like past Starlight, but much more black whit no grays in this picture. That's what Daybraker represents, Celestia never fear that she will become evil, because she have everything she wants, including her sister. She was regreting that she send her to the moon, for so long that she is willing give another chance to almost anyone who ask for it, even if it's main six who is doing resocialization . That why we have so many ex villains in MLP. Celestia is teacher of Twilight who grow up to be princess of friendship, and from Twilight Celestia learn that even after thousens of years you can change, when Twilight helped Nightmare Moon.
well i could still see that Celestia might worry a bit that she might turn evil, even if it is only thanks to outside influence. But again it's pretty hard to tell^^. And i agree that the episode is more emotional than the comic. The comic does a better job representing Celestia's workload though and is overall funnier. I also want Tiberius to be canon^^
As for it looking like Luna's job isn't as important as Celestia's, I think I have to disagree. Think about it, Luna said the nightmare Starlight was going through would damage her psyche. Very few ponies work in positions important enough where their damages psyches would have an effect on Equestria, but they could be replaced by others, such as mayor positions. Positions like Celestia's are far rarer, so of course Equestria might not be ruined by nightmares because Luna was gone. But just because Equestria as a whole wouldn't suffer, doesn't mean there isn't any damage. MLP has shown how one damaged friendship has had consequences that go on for years. Imagine how many ponies on a personal non-destructive level were affected by their nightmares without Luna. They may have been committed to a mental institute, they may have committed suicide, they may have no longer been able to run their daily lives or relationships because of their damaged psyches. While Luna missing wouldn't have seen Equestria turned into a wasteland, her missing may have caused hundreds, if not thousands, of ponies over the course of a thousand years to have their lives ruined. It happens all the time in the real world yet a country doesn't shut down. Luna's job is still just as important as Celestia's, but on a more character driven level rather than a plot driven level.
well I think Luna said that she never saw something like this. In any case, I'm not denying the overall positive effect of Luna's job. Who knows, maybe Sunset or Starlight would have turned out differently if Luna had visited them in their sleep
It would be nice if Luna could defend against Everfree and night monsters as her job as well. That's another thing that she can do that Celestia can't, that actually would strongly impact pony kind if she wasn't there anymore. Really really hope they integrate that somehow.
I'm just curious about the Weeping Angel Whooves was hiding from in his dream. And if the Smooze will be getting a return if Discord is thinking of him.
Personally I think the map is connected to the Tree of Harmony more than just the mane 6, and thus connected to the nebulous concept of Harmony itself, which I’m becoming more and more convinced is at least sentient. This harmony might be connected to the very magic of Equestria, so since all ponies are at least a little magical, anyone could be called.
finally a Review of this episode! My Theories are that Daybreaker is A) actually Celestia's Dark-side like Nightmare Moon is to Luna. or B) the sum of Celestia's fears made manifest in Dark-side form. here is the evedence to back it up: 1) Luna has both knowledge and experience in the Dream realm. she knows that Celestia's magic doesn't work and she says "your Magic doesn't work in the dream realm, you are the one that must stop her" to Celestia when she is asked to help fight Daybreaker. and think of the Tantabus which is Luna's Daybreaker. 2) The Tantabus is created form Luna's regret of what has happened and fear of what could happen again, while Daybreaker is Celestia's fear of what could happen in the coming future. Starlight feared them fighting and what she has done. lets go over what she dreamed of before Celestia came. 1) pancakes saying "I care"(Celestia) 2) Lavender(Luna) 3) Ballerina music box(Twilight Sparkle (in this episode))/Giant Twilight head with day and night sky eyes that says "This is big! like Really BIG!"(all three princesses) 3) The two dark-side-sisters didn't appear until Celestia entered her dream. and when Luna helped the CMC, the Tantabus didn't enter their dreams because she somewhat knew how to keep that nightmare away from other ponies view. so that they wouldn't relapse into the first five minutes of Luna Eclipsed back in the early days of season one. Celestia didn't have that knowledge or skill. 4) Daybreaker introduced herself to Celestia as if Celestia is meeting her for the first time but she knew everything about her. its a fear that is just surfacing in Celestia as she realizes the weight of the situation. and what could have happened if these events hadn't happened. 5) Daybreaker also said and I quote; "I never should have banished you to the moon, I should have destroyed you." Celestia herself said this in Princess Twilight (the episode that confirmed Discord is a princess); "I must admit that it is wonderful to actually look forward to the summer sun celebration... for my subjects it has been a celebration of my defeat of Nightmare Moon, but for me, it was just a terrible reminder that i had to banish my own sister." Celestia had hope that Luna would be back to normal after her return. but if she killed Luna, then her last memories of her sister might have been just enough to send her over the edge. getting over the loss of a loved one is no easy feat, especially if you were the one that had to do it for the good of all. the Evidence piles up to this arc... or a coming arc. next i will suggest something that may not happen in a future episode but is very possible. Twilight is Celestia's replacement. here is the timeline that it would happen in. 1) Celestia turns into Daybreaker and takes out one of the elements 2) Luna sacrifices herself to take Daybreaker out not getting killed but badly wounded (Luna best princess) 3) Twilight is left to take charge of Celestia's duities as a diarch (no longer a Triarch or a Quadarch due to Cadence and Flurry in the Crystal Empire and Celestia taken out of the picture.) 4) Luna and Twilight work through the losses of their sister and friends respectively 5) after getting through it Twilight, the second youngest Alicorn, with the help of Luna (who has had a taste of Celestia's job now) becomes the Diarch that rules Equestria day by day on top of being the princess of friendship I hope to see a lot more of this. and i hope to discuss this theory in depth with all of you. Thank you for your time and consideration. ~Drago
I could see the map calling the CMC, the popular background ponies and maybe some of the more prominent side characters. Maybe one day even Fkurryheart. It would be interesting if it could even call Sunset Shimmer back from the other world. The map doesn't need an explanation just yet. I think its good enough to be "Its magic we don't have to explain it" I want to ultimately see a threat so huge that it takes 100s of ponies to take it down.
I has a thought when watching this. Particularly the part where they talk about how its interesting that day beaker addresses celestia and not starlight glimmer. Could it be possible that celestia fell asleep while in the dream realm? So then it was a shared dream? (Starlights and celestia's dream.) we know its possible to bring multiple ponies into the same dream when thier asleep can the same be done when one is awake? Or even as they mentioned here that those in the dream still affect it even if it isn't thier dream per say.
Until we get more info about the tree (which is long overdue, in my opinion) then I honestly can't say for sure. But my best guess would be anyone who could have been a potential candidate for one of the elements might be worthy. In Starlight's case, she could have potentially been the bearer of the Element of Magic if circumstances had permitted it.
great discussion between you two. What I find though, is the writers present this scenario and do a good job resolving the conflict as presented. If there was an analog in real life, there wouldn't be an encapsulation like this episode. It is the after analysis where our minds try to fit our reality, morality, and thought processes in a single episode of a fantasy world, that can be changed with a litteral stroke of a pen. This isn't bad or an excuse, just we can't base our expectations on quid pro quo, take the giant reset button in stride. The rest of season 7 proved to be pretty good, and season 8 was a really strong season. However, with the tease of season 9, a lot of what was discussed here may never see the light of the day. Mainly because the show was about Twilight's journey. It has become more than that, and the canon is pretty much in tact. I don't think the sisters will be explored much more in this generation. I say the rest of Celestia and Luna's story will need to be played out in the comics and fan fiction.
No wonder Luna turned into Nightmare Moon. The ponies, even Celestia in this case, saw her responsibilities as nothing more than a joke. As you said, Tia upheld her land for a millennium w/o Luna.
The final dream sequence would have been better if Starlight's former bad self from the Season 5 premiere confronted her, saying things like, "Why do you even bother with them?," "You've become weak," "You were just fine with power alone, you don't need friendship," etc. It would've implied that although Starlight was reformed, she still had temptations to return to her old ways. This would've added much more character to her.
how come dr wolfs video on this colab has more views than this video with the review. at the time I am wrighting this dr wolf has 3340 views and tricky has 2008, and trickys video has been up one hour longer.
I didn't know there was already a micro comic story about Luna and Celestia switching places. If this was a coincidence, I guess the series is running out of stories.
No, other ponies won't be called to the cutie mark map because Starlight just like Sunset is the 7th element of harmony. Which by the way is empathy, not forgiveness! I also don't understand why everyone (well almost everyone) likes Sunset but most dislike Starlight? Because to me Starlight is greater then Sunset because Starlight gave friendship to a whole entire civilization! While Sunset only gave friendship to Sci Twilight! Anyway that's my 2 bits you are welcome to discuss with me if you like! ~Rockfeather
Rock Mint Swirl I like sunset More because she had earn every one trust back between starlight didn't and everything was fine and she didn't need to pay for her mistakes and sunset made a entire school understand friendship I know what she done isn't as much but I like her backstory and character development and her personality.
I personally like both Starlight and Sunset for diffrent reasons. While I agree that Sunset had to work a lot more for her friendship with the mane six, she got flanderized in the next movies, which is rather sad. Rainbow Rocks should have focused a ot more on Sunsets Struggle in changing herself and redeeming her actions. Also, I'n my opinion Sunset has the far superior design and a bit more diffrent personality if compared to twillight. On the other hand, while Starlight started out rather weak and extreme flat, I think that her personal growth over the past few seasons is extremly well handled and also her OPnes is handled well, without making it unbelievabable or quostionable why Starlight does not just solves every problem with magic. However, I still think she is to much Twillight 2.0, even with her own quirks and I hope they keep on making her more unique. So, in the end I would say that in my case I think that they are, give and take, rather even.
The general thing people dislike about Starlight is that her motive was underwheliming and that she got seemingly got no punishment what so ever unlike Sunset who had to earn the respect of her peers in Rainbow Rocks to be accepted. Starlight also got to few appearances in season 6, her character arc felt a bti rushed as a result. But hey i love them both
I have to disagree, Patrick: I liked Starlight 1.0 because she wasn't an ancient beatstick or OP warper like all the other FiM seasonal antagonists. She used her persuasive power to get what she wanted, and relied very little on her magic, until she had no other choice but to use it. She subverted every single season premiere trope there is in FiM, and she was only a slightly above average Unicorn with some unique spells, nowhere near as powerful as the Mane6. She wasn't exactly as powerful as she needed to be the way Starlight 2.0 and 2.1 are. She wouldn't be instantly forgiven if she stole Celestia's and Luna's cutie marks the way she did with Ourtown and the Mane6, and she didn't cast anything that should have been impossible for her to do. Yes, Starlight 2.0's backstory was extremely shallow. It's also ridiculous, since she was the one who was more powerful, not Starburst. It didn't make any sense. Yes, Starlight is more likeable now because she's more modest, but she's still so OP she borders on Mary Sue levels of power, and making the map accept her as an Element Holder like the Mane6 does not help. Also, there has been a LOT of focus on Starlight, almost like the writers want to shift the show away from the Mane6. And have you noticed how most of the weaker episodes as of season 6 have been Mane6 episodes? Like the writers are having trouble writing them? Overall Starlight could have been handled better from the season 5 finale onward. Admittedly, EQG doesn't handle its characters well either: they are teens, and very different from their FiM counterparts, but the writers handle the HuMane6 like they ARE the Mane6, except they often flanderize them. Like Rarity ONLY talking about fashion. Fortunaely, Sunset was handled well through her redemption arc, and even got to pay the lesson forward to SciTwi. Unfortunately, LoE did very little story- or character-wise. But it did make Brad more sympathetic.
Limited role? 1.) Luna controls the night itself, not just the moon. Sure Celestia was strong enough to levitate the moon into place, but I doubt she could rotate all the stars and constelations without losing their place. 2.) Luna is literally the only pony capable of entering the Dream Real and has to constantly govern and secure the dreams of every single pony in the kingdom. As it was shown, nightmares tend to have serious effects on a pony's mental health. Not to mention she has to do this completely on her own without any backup since no ponyelse can even enter dreams. Not to mention she's constantly using her magic just to be in the Dream Real, which clearly drains her by morning. She's literally a one mare squadron! In the 1000 years she's been banished, no one was there to help ponies with their nightmares. Which would have lead to a lot of sleepless nights for who knows how many, and probably lead to serious mental breakdowns.
I don't feel that it was quite accurate to say that Equestria got along fine without Luna. she said it herself that the nightmare could have a grave effect on Starlight's psyche if it wasn't resolved. I'd have to think it's a real thing because that's not just something it seems Luna would innately know, she would have had to learn that from personal experience. So if it really is a thing, I sincerely doubt that nopony had a nightmare for the years Luna was gone. so unless they touch on those effects on the psyche, I'd have to say preventing ponies from being mentally scarred for life is just as important.
With all of her powers what if Starlight Gilmmer's father is maybe Starswirl the Bearded. Say he can go in time and fell in love with Starlight's mother. And Starlight has all this power and even the map see it.
starlight has used the map for time travel so I guess it would have a record of her magic so it isn't that weird that it doesn't send somepony from the Mane 6
6:02 I think they might have made some deal in the history. Luna seems much more introverted than Celestia. Each of them splitted their roles depending on what suits them best.
+Tricky Fox That was just an idea. It's not really well thought-through. There could be disagreements within the deals and so. I blame the plot for this! It creates so many questions and it's unclear. :/
I think this episodes opens up alote of possibilites When it comes to Alicorns. As some of The most powerful beings on Equestira, they all have The possibility to become something els When they are corrupted. Its like that their powers create a duel personality. Now we have seen two (maybe three) of this other personalites. Nightmare moon, Dawnbreaker (Im SO glad they dident call her Nightmare sun or something like that) and IF we count The human world as Canon, At lest a version of Twilights possible Evil form, midnight. Flurryheart is to young for it I think, so now we got to see what Caidance might have. It feels like to Much magic gives a pony Mutible personality disorder, something im really familiar with.
Starlight has a lot of magical mojo, but I think Starlight is especially powerful with regard to cutie marks. That matches her introduction and I think is a match for her cutie mark.
I think luna doesn't help with the politics and ruling is because after her 1000 year break she isn't used to them yet (which we have seen happen in the episode)
so while Celestia maintains order in the waking world by conversing with ponies and managing the lands problems, Luna ensure that those sames ponies are well rested and have good dreams instead of become sleep deprived and having damaged psyches. Kind of makes you wonder: If Luna helps ponies not get mentally damaged from their own bad & dark dreams....how has Equestria not have millions of ponies going mad for the thousand years Luna was gone. Celestia can't do squat in the Dream Realm, soooooo....what happened? Luna stated that since she has Celestia MAGIC she has no power in the dream realm, so even if Celestia has figured out a way to go to the dream realm, her day-specific type of magic wouldn't allow her to influence dreams as sleep is associated with the night. all she could do is just watch and nothing more.
It's good to show that *"Magic isn't "Never" able to be part of a Solution, It simply isn't 'The Solution' on its own."* Also, that we may want to remember that the "Map" along with the Tree are parts of an element of far greater power than our current understanding, _and that likely goes well beyond conventional comprehensions?_ (edler forces ftw, lol) Although it is tough to say how far into "Eldredge Powers" of Harmony, Anarchy, Tyranny, and Chaos past that of "the Tree" and EoH the current head writing staff want to go... (getting into Cthulhu levels of Lovecraft kind stuffs is like 'series end' materials?)
Also that to some such point, that their Government would seem to be a *_Constitutional Monarchy/Diarchy_* than an actually Totalitarianist one, eh? ie, The Princess(es) "Lead" but they don't fully per say 'Rule,' all parts of Gov. To some point as such, that Tia is to some point a figurehead of State, with some degree of Executive & perhaps Judicial authority but mostly with regards to "Actual" rule of law It's "By Rule of Law" from more localized administries that 'Things get done,' with the Princesses stepping in if needed. Otherwise most of her role perhaps would be tied into Public Appearance, when not taking time where needed getting to know her Delegates that do most of the per-fact "Ruling" as part of the above said Constitutionalized Government.? Along in turn with helping handle disputes between them. (Tia is again afterall not "Queen" in these matters by very deliberate choices)
*But yes, Perhaps as the 'map' along with whatever gods/beings or elder powers it is of gains power through the use of the Map to empower "harmony" within their world,* That more can that come into its gaze might well yet become part of its enlisted "corps of helpers" in due time...? ;3
Apollo or Helios maybe? Just because they're male... Hmm... I think I go with Apollo. The word Apollon means destroyer, Apollo also has prophecy (Celestia has prophetic dreams)...
true, which is why the first question i asked after the epsiode is; if the same thing happened to make a filly clone of Daybreaker, what would the foals name be? a fan fiction nut needs to know these things ;p
I actually have a theory regarding Luna's seemingly limited role in governing Equestria. Given her absence from Equestrian society, and the numerous changes that have likely occurred following her banishment, it is possible that Luna may be easing herself back into a position of greater responsibility. Furthermore, among her duties listed is protecting Equestria at night, implying that she may be serving as a sort of night watch-mare.
in the comics she spends a lot of time fighting monsters at night^^
Headcanon. The final 'Wasteland' timeline from the S5 finale is a 'Celestia became Daybreaker and burned everything' Timeline.
hm Daybreaker, at least in this episode, seemed less itnerested in destruction than absolute power
More in just utter freedom to do whatever she wanted. Just revel in her power and strength. Likely not a case of going out and trying to burn everything, so much as simply letting lose and everything being burned as collateral damage.
♨️🔥♨️🔥♨️🔥♨️🔥♨️🔥♨️🔥
I'm glad you mentioned the comic. I loved it and was a bit disappointed that this was so...much less well done... also celestia has now had littarly 3 episodes centered on her... sad..... luna fan. But celestia has proven to be a good ruler
Ive seen a lot of the headcanons involving the wasteland timeline. I mean there’s literally nothing there so it’s open to interpretation.
My headcanon: that’s cozy’s universe.
She sucked out ALL the pony magic in equestria.
Earth ponies have no control over agriculture and the environment
Pegasi have no control over the weather
And unicorns are just as useless as the other races.
Long story short, animals dont live, the environment dosent thrive because ponies cannot do anything. Creating famine and overall chaos.
Windigos return and they also have no magic to feed on...
patrick: EVERYTHING DIES. THE END!!!
As someone who has had prior experience with dream study, aswell as seeing many dream fiction, I think it was more the former with Daybreaker that Starlight dreamed her up aswell as nightmare moon. But it was Celestia entering the Nightmare that caused Daybreaker to appear as Starlight began to focus on Celstia, which by extension Daybreaker did because that is who the dreamer was currently focusing on.
If we go back to the Tantabus a creature that conjures your worst nightmares, then we can understand that when one pony dreams of another the nightmare can spread, it is possible normal dreams work this way aswell, but that may contradict my previous statement.
Either way I think Glim-Glam was the creator of Daybreaker, and upon seeing it Celestia began to doubt herself which fueld it. I suppose you could consider this akin to say the madness of two?
Reason I love Starlight #127: SHE MADE DAYBREAKER
It’s implied Luna has run into her before, given she knows _who_ Daybreaker even is.
hmmm. starlight glimmer has had a traumatic event in her past, has a fear of change and prefers staying in her comfort zone, has difficulty conveying her emotions out of fear of losing her friends, fears people will judge her for her past actions, and on top of everything else has nightmares caused by excessive worry and stress. call me crazy but i think the writers of MLP are giving Starlight Glimmer an Anxiety disorder...
Exactly what I have been thinking
Curti Burm Twilight = Pony Who Didn't notice Her friends at all as filly, Is Number 1 student of QUEEN, Has incredible Magic, a Dragon slave, Has magic destiny suddenly, Needs life in town Filled with crazy ponies and becomes a princess with giant castle.
One possible "Map Quest" I would personally like to see would be Spike and Discord being called on for a mission together. Oh, the chaos that would ensue.
Wonder what their marks would be?
I think Discord would just pop up, floating above the map and holding a sign that sais "Spike too" :)
Well dragons do magic with their breath... So spike would probably get a swirl of green fire, telling him where to go on the map, and flaming hickups instead of a blinking cutie mark...
As for discord... I'd guess tornado... (Possibly with the mark materialising on him... )
The idea for Spike sounds pretty good.
But I guess the map would just have Discord himself pop up right there. :)
FrankenXANA Yea. Spike has alweys been *back character, the kid that people hate in movies*.
he deserves more than just being A small slave to the ponies.
If thinking deeply, Spike Was Kidnapped by ponies to their *magic science*.
I honestly like to believe that Day Breaker was indeed from Celestia herself influencing the dream with her own thoughts and subtle fears about this dream and her job of helping guide ponies within their dreams.
if you throw a cat between these two, what would happen?...
We would have all kinds of fuzzies going on.
Eh.... probrably a fight for lightning bliss to break up.
Good to see some people having hope for Starlight *GLARES ANGRILY AT LILY PEET*
Fox, look at it this way:
Celestia looks after the ponies' bodies, while Luna cares for their souls.
I liked this episode most of all this season so far.
WeegeeSlayer then perfect pear comes out, welp new fav!
When it comes to who the more important ruler is, I say they are both still relatively equal even if we don't see it upfront.
Celestia is the face of the kingdom. The figurehead at the top of everything. Should she legit vanish for an extended period then that would cause the people to panic. Then you have Luna, a non-figurehead type. She vanishes the people won't really notice but it will still effect the work of the figurehead and those around because she was an important part of keeping the machine working at optimal levels.
Sure Equestria has stayed strong in Luna's absence, but when Luna in the episode brought up how the nightmare could damage Starlight's psyche if nothing was done then one has to wonder how many ponies slowly built up mental issues over the years and how many succumbed to such damage because Luna wasn't there for them being a warden to more pleasant dreams?
What if Starlight started having cutie mark related nightmares as a child after the Sunburst incident. Luna wouldn't have been there to intervene and prevent any psychological damage, so....
And I just realized why Luna is important
She keeps everyone sain or content.
Think about it, if she was never banished to the moon, then starlight would have never turned evil or mad at cutimarks
well, first things off my chest, i gotta say that you both doing a collab is something amazing :D that was a great colab with lots of theories, all of which have good arguments to support them all.
I specially love the map theory with Starlight's magic, and how Trixie could be called as well. An episode that i'd love to see would be one where the map calls both Trixie and Twillight.
I love how this analysis ended, Viva the ferals :D
glad ya like it
Well, as i said before, VIVA THE FERALS XD besides, you two are some of my favourites youtubers :3
a fox and a wolf unite as one, I can imagine IF the Cutie Map calls out the CMC, it'll be silly
Season 8:Are you sure about that?
@@talaedgefangstudios9524 I joked about this and this is my instant regret from one episode
9:35 I haven't read the comics yet. Does that really say Faust's Travelling Circus? That's just...
It COULD be a reference to Dr. Faustus, but I think it's more likely a reference to Lauren Faust, the original producer of FiM.
@@Regfife Maybe it's both.
Gotta agree with you, Tricky. I'm of the opinion that Starlight got the dream started, even created the Daybreaker avatar, but at that point some of Celestia, due to her own fears and not being an expert with the dream magic, mixed in and made Daybreaker even more "on model" as the dark side of Celestia, or at least her fears of her own dark side. Daybreaker's dialog and personality are just too spot on to have been only Starlight's doing.
My theory is that the Ashlands Timeline is what happened when Celestia suffered a brain injury that impaired her judgment and self-control, and she couldn't be incapacitated and Unichained fast enough.
I would like to make a comment on Nightmare and Day Breaker.
The way they are both portrayed is a means of showing ego. Both have a lack of ego but treat is differently. (I would redirect you to Silver Quill's video on Nightmare Moon's universe for some background) We have Nightmare Moon who has her subjects feed her ego, Chrysalis who pulls everyone else down to lift her ego and Day Breaker who pushes others opinions away to sustain her ego. Would Day Breaker really be willing to let anyone else voice their opinion if it was one putting down her image? She is consistently telling Celestia that she doesn't NEED anyone else, that she should have DESTROYED Luna.
I would say that Nightmare Star focused on a different aspect of Celestia... Maybe one that would result in a BETTER future than the rule of Day Breaker. Nightmare Star having a rule similar to Nightmare Moon, for instance, would be better than Day Breaker leaving behind a barren wasteland where she stood alone and ruled. At the end when Day Breaker defeats Nightmare Moon? Nightmare Moon sought revenge and wanted to imprison her sister in the Moon while Day Breaker had no mercy to spare. No mercy would be given to Nightmare Moon, so why would any be given to the ponies of Equestria?
Any of your thoughts on this?
15:15 "Could anypony who interacted with the Map while learning a friendship lesson be considered worthy of a mission?"
Big Mac, Spike, and Discord from 'Dungeons and Discords'. Right there in the throne room, playing a tabletop game ON the map, Discord was able to learn to admit his insecurities and his loneliness while Spike and Big Mac learned to accept him for who he is and encourage him to play the game his own way to make it fun for everyone.
oh yeah haven't thought about this one :D
@6:57 Imagine if Luna had been there for Starlight when she was a filly
'tis true. Luna could have prevented a lot of trouble with her dream counceling sessions^^
4:26 I think the meaning of the episode comes later but also I think while magic isn't the solution for everything it doesn't mean it can't solve certain problems. Not to mention she didn't have many option if those 2 got too heated they could have to Canterlot into soot.
I thought the reason it picked Starlight was because A. She was powerful enough with magic to do what she did. And B. She was the only one out of all of them, that wasn't biased.
oh yeah starlight was the right pony for the job. We are jsut trying to figure out how the map works :P
Tricky Fox Maybe it just calls on ponies who it thinks is right for the job?
I think of the Map as a being of it's own really. It sends ponies (associated with the Mane 6 anyway) on missions to teach others friendship lessons, while learning lessons themselves. It may build up to something.
One of my theories (which may have been done already but idk if it has) is that Starswirl the Bearded, is somehow Trapped in the Map, or the Tree which is connected to the Map. Kinda like Merlin from Once Upon A Time. It's a bit far fetched but... You never know.
It's clear the Map has Cutie Mark magic. It calls on ponies by their Cutie Marks. And it fixed the Cutie Mark problem in this episode. When Starlight said that them switching back wasn't her doing, and at the exact same time was called back, I thought of the map doing that. (Because was it Sunset when the Cutie Marks were switched?).
So idk, maybe Starswirl is preparing Twilight and her friends for something big? Maybe get him out of the Tree (or map)? I think that would be a cool path to go down.
But it's just a theory.
Interesting theories Tricky and Doctor Wolf and I say it again this episode was amazing ^^
6:19 Ponies usually work and do things during the day, so Celestia holds more time with the upper class. The fact dignitaries were there at night is unusual.
While the whole "Starlight helped fix it, which put her magic into the map" theory is nice, I can't help but point out that Starlight was the very FIRST map mission, and that it's entirely possible that Marble Butt was always on the map's radar from the moment the Tree of Harmony sprouted that box, and it's only now that Starlight has reached the point where she can properly enact the map's plans
Also, I don't see any reason why the map would be *limited* to only some ponies... or always sending two? This was Starlight's solo mission -- and I can really see *why*. This was *needed*. It's a classic. You two both think the other one has things easy?We'll see about that, change roles until you have learned your lesson... details of *how* vary. Starlight's only one who would even think to make Celestia and and Luna go trough it. For that, she *also* needed to go about it alone.
I think the map sends whoever are *needed* and best able to do what needs doing. For CMC, well -- the mission could well be: Cutiemark related and/or one of those involved is their age or younger and doesn't really relate to adults. (and they can get away with some things *because* they're young).
The only problem with "The map can send whoever is needed" is a simple one that everyone overlooks. What if the non-group pony doesn't want to go? Suppose Lyra doesn't WANT to go to Fillydelphia to save friendship? What if Roseluck is deathly allergic to Yak fur and refuses to go to Yakyakistan? Twilight can't FORCE them to go, despite being a princess, and then the world is kinda fucked. I could see the CMC being sent, as they obviously have a rather special destiny of their own, but I think it's restricted to those ten ponies
I suppose people can persuaded. Pinkie's good at that.
What does Marble Pie have to do with anything?
I regret nothing.
@@TheKyrix82
The Tree of Harmony takes such factors as willingness and ability into account.
I say that when Nightmare Moon was banished to the moon, she and Luna went into kinda like a hibernation state. And since Luna is connected to the dream realm, THAT'S where she spent her all her 1000 years. Helping others. But not revealing herself.
Or, Nightmare Moon could've had a hand in that so they didn't recognize Luna. So she still would be portrayed as evil. And probably kept Luna away from Celestia when she slept too.
You talk as though Nightmare Moon and Luna are two separate personalities.
darkruler64 They are. Like Anakin Skywalker and Darth Vader.
Same body, but two minds. Two personalities.
Which begs to question why Tabitha St. Germain no longer uses the deep, seductive Nightmare Moon voice from the first episode.
darkruler64 What does that have to do with anything?
I believe Daybreaker was not Starlight's dream, but Celestia's. She could have formed because Celestia isn't used to entering dreams and wouldn't know how to avoid combining her own into it.
I see Daybreaker as a manifestation of Celestia's negative traits, her occasional pride and neglect for Luna's feelings, magnified and without her positive traits to balance them out. Daybreaker is Celestia's shadow, a concept in Jungian psychology that represents the traits we suppress and deny about ourselves, or even project them onto others instead of seeing what we dislike about ourselves.
Just like Luna had the potential to become Nightmare Moon when she was overcome by her envy and loneliness, Celestia could become Daybreaker if she turned evil and was overcome by vanity and the belief she was above all others.
Daybreaker could be Celestia's dark side and the doubts and fears she has over what she could become if she didn't restrain her power or care about anybody other than herself; she fears what she is capable of and what she could be willing to do if she became drunk with power.
I really hope there's a future episode where a pony we've never seen before gets called by the map out of the blue. There's a lot of story potential there: some average Joe pony is minding their own business when suddenly their cutie mark starts flashing, shortly after the Princess of Friendship visits them and tells them they have to go to some far-flung part of Equestria they never met. This could go in several directions: having doubts as to why they would be chosen and feeling there must have been some mistake, Mane Six fanboys who jump at the chance to work alongside their idols only to discover it's not as glamorous as they hoped, or just thinking the whole thing is just an elaborate prank. This is a gold mine for episode ideas, and I really hope they capitalize on it for the next season.
I saw Daybreaker as Starlight's view of Celestia falling. During the episode, we definitely saw a more arrogant Celestia than I think we're used to. She full well believed she had the harder job and when Luna retired you could see the classic older sister "I told you so" forming on her lips. I don't think for a second that Starlight, as clever as she is, would have missed that fact. Considering Celestia's dialogue and Starlight's view of her Daybreaker could have very well just have been what Starlight believed an evil Celestia would have been like. Celestia, on the other hand, was straight up shown her worst traits in the eyes of another. So it makes sense she would doubt herself
If you think about it this Starlights second map quest. "All bottled up" being the first.
That actually makes some degree of sense. They had to find the map and work through their problems, so by that logic, the map has deemed them both worthy (though, we'll have to wait and see if the map applies to Trixie now).
Shouldn't that episode have broken the map again? It was separated from the Castle and the Tree for a period of time.
BNuts So are you saying that if the map is broken (again), Starlight was summoned by accident?
well the map quest in "All bottled up" was certainly a bit mroe literal XD
I'm saying that after Trixie's little stunt, the map should be completely non-functional. It was broken, after all, separated from its power source.
I would be interested in seeing an episode of Trixie and Pinkie Pie solve a friendship problem. Because both of them have flare and drama working for them, Pinkie can practicalize nearly any special effect, and Trixie is a goddess among show ponies, reveling in the crowd's reactions and cheers. And have that be the solution, while both of them come to respect each other's way of sharing their specific motives: Pinkie wanting to spread cheer for other ponies, while Trixie wants to BE cheered by others. Both methods that can bring smiles to ponies that enjoy the dazzle and crazy antics of visual special effects, something both Trixie and Pinkie can give.
Thoughts???
That could have worked.
Now, what sort of mission might Derpy have been sent on?
I wish this episode was a 2 parter now.
"One cannot manipulate the cutie marks of others without being changed themselves from within". Am I the only one that thought of Seven of Nine from Star Trek Voyager?
There is an episode where Seven of Nine started having the equivalent of multiple personality disorder, as the mental impressions of those she had assimulated attempted to gain control of her body - even attempting to kill the mental impression of Seven of Nine herself. What if some thing similar occurs in Starlight's dreams and Luna has been helping her out since her reformation?
I'm not sure if Daybreaker was the result of Starlight's imagination and Celestia's insecurities. When Luna advised Celestia how to defeat Daybreaker, she had referred to her by name without any one else saying so. Under normal circumstances, this could be explained by saying that her dream magic allowed her to read the minds of other ponies (such as the CMCs in their separate dream episodes), but here, it was already established that Celestia's magic (which Luna had) doesn't work in the dream realm. So how could Luna know Daybreaker's name?
My headcanon says that Daybreaker had actually existed at some point in the past.
Ripple Effect MLP I'm pretty sure there was an exchange between day breaker and Celestia that went something like: "I'm everything you wish you were" and in response Celestia said something like "no I will never be you, not again" although I may be wrong. I'll have to rewatch that particular part but it seems there may be a case for Celestia having turned into day breaker before as evidenced by the words not again. I'll make another reply after I rewatch that part.
Okay so the exchange word for word was: "you can't destroy me. I'm everything you want to be." Celestia responds: "no you are not. you are not real. And you will never exist again." that last sentence is why think there may be more to day breaker than just this one episode. "you will never exist again". although this may be just a throwaway line as evidenced by the previous sentence "you are not real". However I think it makes sense in the context of the episode. Celestia says "no you are not" responding to day breakers claim that she's everything Celestia wants to be. she then asserts that day breaker isn't real. My interpretation is that she means that the day breaker we see is only a creation of starlights/celestias mind and therefore not real. and lastly "you will never exist again" my interpretation is that Celestia is admitting that day breaker has existed in the past but Celestia will ensure that she never exists again. of course you may think differently about the last two lines based on your interpretation. Celestia could mean that day breaker isn't real in general and that she will never exist in her/their minds again.
Or plot convenience...like Obi-Wan Kenobi knowing Darth Maul's name in Star Wars: The Clone Wars.
In the case of the clone wars, obi wan probably heard darth mauls name from the captured nemoidians
What if the map will call any one who has spent time in the castle
I find it interesting that we see the what the dark sides of the princess is like. We have Nightmare moon in Luna, Daybreaker in Celestia, and Midnight Sparkle in Twighlight (if you consider EG to correlate) In all 3 of these you see what happens when they focused on power and became overcome with it. Like the saying goes, Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely. The princesses provide a check on each other and when they began to think their job is harder they began to think they are stronger. Thus, it was important for Starlight to force them to attempt the others tasks and to humble them.
I only wonder what Cadence's corrupt form would be like. And how it would manifest. I really enjoyed this episode as it opened up interesting possibilities, gave development and sparked a few interesting questions. Tho I do wish they had a bit more focus on the governing aspect of Celestia's job, and had Celestia attempt to fix a few simple nightmares first. Tho I don't think the episode suffered without them.
Frankly i would be suprised if we ever see an evil cadence (unless you count Chrissy impersonating her in Canterlot wedding)
I agree, it would be a surprise to see an evil Cadence. Off the top of my head I'm not sure how they would introduce and write that episode. I could potentially see something like, she is stressed and is growing irritated and mad. And that maybe her and Shinning Armor are having a fight. Now that would be a rather interesting moral lesson. Working through marital problems.. how it is a team effort. And that you won't always agree, but that love is an action that must be applied and not solely an emotion.
This fox sounds like AnY's older brother
I think he is older than me
1:58 is that FFXV music in the background I hear?
Here's another possibility to how the map may choose others, it is connected to all of equestria and is an extension of the tree of harmony and it's powers. So it is capable of calling on anypony that it deems fit for the job but it would keep to the main six and the friends they have made most likely. Now where's the evidence of what I said at first from?? From the very episode that was reviewed in this video. When their cutie marks were returned to the correct sister, Starlight said she didn't do this, and by her saying this, it most likely means that it has not been 24 hours either, so who could send the cutie marks back is starlight already said she couldn't do it at all?? Well it's not a who, but a what, the cutie map and the power of harmony that uses it to extend across equestria.
Had to rewatch! Best new episode!
This was a very informative video!
In regards to the theory about the Cutie Map, I'm mostly in agreement. The idea of any character being called by the map if they've interacted with it and proved themselves worthy after a friendship test, then Trixie has the potential to be called by the map along with Starlight if "All Bottled Up" is of any indication. Also, going off of the idea of characters apart from the Mane 6 using the map, if Sunset Shimmer was to return to Equestria (and stay) at any point in the future, would it be possible for her to be called by the map? Since she wields what could technically be counted as the human world's version of the Elements of Harmony, would she have to prove herself to the map in order to be called? Or since she's already proven herself in the human world, will the map call her without having her interact with it?
EQG has a separate canonicity from FiM, so Sunset will never be seen in the show. That's why Starlight was created, to serve as Sunset's replacement in Equestria.
BNuts Except FiM and EQG are going to cross over when the third EQG special comes out in the summer. Meanwhile, I highly doubt Starlight was created as a replacement for Sunset; she was simply supposed to be another anti-Twilight character like Trixie and Sunset before her. That doesn't necessarily mean she was meant to replace Sunset. If that really was the case, I have a few criticisms on that idea.
Just before Season 6 premiered, I posted the thought that the map should send the CMC on missions (perhaps with one of the Mane 6 going with them), and that they would be Princess Twilight's valiant cutie mark knights. The idea of solving cutie mark problems across Equestria was actually covered in the first CMC episode of Season 6, but that's probably coincidence. I don't think I gave much thought to why the map would do that. Just that the CMC are associated with the Mane 6, and that the map and the Tree of Harmony are basically connected to the Gods of Equestria, Powers That Be, etc. Thus, it knows who to send where to solve friendship problems that have a large impact in the long run. The map knew Starlight was the right pick because of what she would likely do in that situation, and it knows how complete her redemption is. Heck, it sent them to stop her in the first place. It may focus on the chosen ones, but it is capable of sending others. This really gives us the chance to have more map episodes than just 3-5 per season. Don't want the younger viewers to forget that element of the story. Also, I wonder if Twilight, just for the sake of fairness and Princess Oversight Obligation, should pop in on her other friends during their missions using Haycart's method. It would be funny if she scared Rarity by speaking from a poster behind her. LOL. On the subject of chosen ones, I like the official ambassador title that Pinkie got, and Silver Quill's previous joke about her being the Grand Duchess of Friendship. I liked the Honorary Yak thing to. :) I wonder if the others should one day get royal titles and jobs. I don't think it's necessary or advisable for them all to become alicornes, but that would sure be fun to look at.
I believe that when Luna got bannished to the moon, Celestia took over the role of Dreamguiding the ponies of Equestria. Yet then we have the problem that in the episode Celestia was dealing with that role pretty baddly so... Yeah it's pretty confusing.
I think the starlight using magic in this episode was more due to the fact that she acted completely out of her instincts without actually thinking about it at all. See it this way Twilight has a tendency to overthink everything but then runs into the danger of not actually doing anything do to her fearing it could go wrong. Starlight is on the other end of that spectrum and tends to completely act out of instinct without thinking about it, however when things the go wrong she has to deal with the consequences.
like i said, she is pretty emotional^^
I think Luna is dealing with way more nightmares then we see. It maybe seems like a blink of an eye to us and the pony. For Luna it's a very long work night until the night is over. And I think Celestia did the same just that we only saw two dreams.
I have to go back and look, but the Ogres and Oubliettes game was play out on the map table, right. What if Spike, Big Mac, and Discord got call out on a mission? That would be a cool story.
As I said earlier in the Dr. Wolf/Teric review, I find it interesting that Luna knew Daybreaker's name with no introduction. As though she has seen her before.
We have also seen how it is a relatively trivial matter for Luna to take one or two dreaming ponies with her between dreams and how the dream realm is its own existence. Given that nearly every aspect in Equestria seems to be touched by magic to one extent or another it is not hard to picture a massive shared subconscious. And when we consider that Twilight's visions when confronting a certain power hungry centaur were very dream like in how the presented themselves, it seems possible that through the dream realm everything that is, was, or can be may be accessed.
Therefore I propose that Starlight was able to tap this undercurrent of knowledge to know what Nightmare Moon looked like and that Luna had previously encountered Daybreaker, perhaps even quashing that dream before Celestia was even aware of it.
Yeah Luna knowing Daybreakers name was a bit of a plot hole i noticed as well. But it didn't really fit into the script that why I didn't brought it up^^ I think it's simply an oversight^^
Leave it to a German to be all practical and everything ;)
Yeah that is almost certainly the real reason.
ive got an odd question...what if spike got sent somewhere? what whould show up on the map? (since he has no cutie mark)
well, i suppose his scales would start to shine like they did in dragon quest. But dunno what would show up on the map. Maybe his face?
i thought about that...i also considered a little green flame
The map is an interface with the Tree of Harmony. The tree is sentient or at least as far as the ebb and flow of magic is concerned. It know there was an imbalance with the sisters, and it also knew that sending Twilight or any of the other mane six would be a case of they wouldn't want to upset the princesses. The only one not to stand on ceremony is Starlight Glimmer. That's why it sent her alone, too - so the mane six couldn't talk her out of doing what was needed.
I want to see an episode were Spike goes on a friendship mission possibly in the Dragonlands or the Changelings hive
that would be pretty cool, yeah^^
One idea on how Starlight could've created a "Day Breaker Timeline".
Before the Summer Sun festival happens, Celestia, in desperation, finds ponies whom she hastily deems worthy to wield the Elements of Harmony to confront Nightmare Moon. However, the plan fails and the ponies she entrusted the mission to are severly injured in the process. Realizing the mistake she made, entrusting such a dangerous mission to little ponies, Celestia confronts Nightmare Moon herself.
During their battle, Celestia starts to lose and has no choice but to go all out for the first time in her life. Convinced that her sister cannot be saved, she ends Nightmare Moon.
With Luna gone and the Elements rendered useless, a grieving Celestia realizes that Equestria is vulnerable. But after having tasted the full potential of her power, she slowly realizes "the truth". She has held herself back. She has ruled Equestria alone for a thousand years without help and convinces herself that she doesn't need Luna to rule a thousand more.
Celestia becomes Day Breaker.
And as followed, Day Breaker ensures that Equestria remains forever safe, beneath her scorching sun. Villains like Discord, Chrysalis and Sombra are taken out quickly and ponies are forced to show everlasting devotion and loyalty to Day Breaker, less they be burned by her.
In my opinion, this episode was set up better than story in comics, where you could argue that Luna want to rule a day and disagree with her sister with no reason. Both are funny, but here ending is much more touching and emotional. And, I know theres a balance beetween importance of sisters as they are day and night, but day is more active time for ponies, so yes, it makes way more sense that Celestia is their main ruler, especialy since Luna was on the moon for so long. She is the younger sister, so in that way, she will never be a main ruler. But, this episode and many others shows that her call is begin adviser, strong and conforting soul that can help more when she is focus in invidual problem then a mass. Oposit to her sister Celestia (who again, in comic just go to SPA for whole day, what a great story for her...) who is much better as a monarch, she is able to putting smile that is not fake and make others belive in her. She is working hard on it by begin truthfull to her subjects, while we know how socialy awkward Luna can be.
As for Daybraker, we all know the story of Nightmare moon and how she started when Luna was more and more lonly, and later become power hungry wonting attention and love (that she later gain by entering dream realm and becoming the one who help others in their bad dreams). In Daybraker we lack this, as she only thinks about herself and is power hungry, why? Because she is not real. And my theory is she turn out this way only because she is in Starlight imagination. And Starlight been there, she wanted whole villige to act exacly like she wants. And she knows now that she was wrong, and thats why Daybraker have almost no redeeming qualities. She looks cool, she is powerfull, but noting else. She is pure evil because is like past Starlight, but much more black whit no grays in this picture. That's what Daybraker represents, Celestia never fear that she will become evil, because she have everything she wants, including her sister. She was regreting that she send her to the moon, for so long that she is willing give another chance to almost anyone who ask for it, even if it's main six who is doing resocialization . That why we have so many ex villains in MLP. Celestia is teacher of Twilight who grow up to be princess of friendship, and from Twilight Celestia learn that even after thousens of years you can change, when Twilight helped Nightmare Moon.
well i could still see that Celestia might worry a bit that she might turn evil, even if it is only thanks to outside influence. But again it's pretty hard to tell^^. And i agree that the episode is more emotional than the comic. The comic does a better job representing Celestia's workload though and is overall funnier. I also want Tiberius to be canon^^
As for it looking like Luna's job isn't as important as Celestia's, I think I have to disagree. Think about it, Luna said the nightmare Starlight was going through would damage her psyche. Very few ponies work in positions important enough where their damages psyches would have an effect on Equestria, but they could be replaced by others, such as mayor positions. Positions like Celestia's are far rarer, so of course Equestria might not be ruined by nightmares because Luna was gone. But just because Equestria as a whole wouldn't suffer, doesn't mean there isn't any damage.
MLP has shown how one damaged friendship has had consequences that go on for years. Imagine how many ponies on a personal non-destructive level were affected by their nightmares without Luna. They may have been committed to a mental institute, they may have committed suicide, they may have no longer been able to run their daily lives or relationships because of their damaged psyches.
While Luna missing wouldn't have seen Equestria turned into a wasteland, her missing may have caused hundreds, if not thousands, of ponies over the course of a thousand years to have their lives ruined. It happens all the time in the real world yet a country doesn't shut down. Luna's job is still just as important as Celestia's, but on a more character driven level rather than a plot driven level.
well I think Luna said that she never saw something like this. In any case, I'm not denying the overall positive effect of Luna's job. Who knows, maybe Sunset or Starlight would have turned out differently if Luna had visited them in their sleep
It would be nice if Luna could defend against Everfree and night monsters as her job as well. That's another thing that she can do that Celestia can't, that actually would strongly impact pony kind if she wasn't there anymore. Really really hope they integrate that somehow.
I came here just to find out if Dr. Wolf ever said "I'm afraid I can't let you do that" to Tricky
A 2 parter episode would have been awesome indeed
I'm just curious about the Weeping Angel Whooves was hiding from in his dream. And if the Smooze will be getting a return if Discord is thinking of him.
maybe, wouldn't count on it though^^
6:38 my headcanon is celestia asked luna to help her once and seeing how tired it made her just did it herself not wishing to do that to her sis
did i here the bell sprout tower theme for your intro mr trickey or are my ears playing tricks on me
Proof no matter the title we are all vulnerable to the same need to learn even the basics .
Personally I think the map is connected to the Tree of Harmony more than just the mane 6, and thus connected to the nebulous concept of Harmony itself, which I’m becoming more and more convinced is at least sentient. This harmony might be connected to the very magic of Equestria, so since all ponies are at least a little magical, anyone could be called.
finally a Review of this episode!
My Theories are that Daybreaker is A) actually Celestia's Dark-side like Nightmare Moon is to Luna. or B) the sum of Celestia's fears made manifest in Dark-side form.
here is the evedence to back it up:
1) Luna has both knowledge and experience in the Dream realm. she knows that Celestia's magic doesn't work and she says "your Magic doesn't work in the dream realm, you are the one that must stop her" to Celestia when she is asked to help fight Daybreaker. and think of the Tantabus which is Luna's Daybreaker.
2) The Tantabus is created form Luna's regret of what has happened and fear of what could happen again, while Daybreaker is Celestia's fear of what could happen in the coming future.
Starlight feared them fighting and what she has done. lets go over what she dreamed of before Celestia came. 1) pancakes saying "I care"(Celestia) 2) Lavender(Luna) 3) Ballerina music box(Twilight Sparkle (in this episode))/Giant Twilight head with day and night sky eyes that says "This is big! like Really BIG!"(all three princesses)
3) The two dark-side-sisters didn't appear until Celestia entered her dream. and when Luna helped the CMC, the Tantabus didn't enter their dreams because she somewhat knew how to keep that nightmare away from other ponies view. so that they wouldn't relapse into the first five minutes of Luna Eclipsed back in the early days of season one. Celestia didn't have that knowledge or skill.
4) Daybreaker introduced herself to Celestia as if Celestia is meeting her for the first time but she knew everything about her. its a fear that is just surfacing in Celestia as she realizes the weight of the situation. and what could have happened if these events hadn't happened.
5) Daybreaker also said and I quote; "I never should have banished you to the moon, I should have destroyed you." Celestia herself said this in Princess Twilight (the episode that confirmed Discord is a princess); "I must admit that it is wonderful to actually look forward to the summer sun celebration... for my subjects it has been a celebration of my defeat of Nightmare Moon, but for me, it was just a terrible reminder that i had to banish my own sister." Celestia had hope that Luna would be back to normal after her return. but if she killed Luna, then her last memories of her sister might have been just enough to send her over the edge. getting over the loss of a loved one is no easy feat, especially if you were the one that had to do it for the good of all.
the Evidence piles up to this arc... or a coming arc. next i will suggest something that may not happen in a future episode but is very possible.
Twilight is Celestia's replacement.
here is the timeline that it would happen in.
1) Celestia turns into Daybreaker and takes out one of the elements
2) Luna sacrifices herself to take Daybreaker out not getting killed but badly wounded (Luna best princess)
3) Twilight is left to take charge of Celestia's duities as a diarch (no longer a Triarch or a Quadarch due to Cadence and Flurry in the Crystal Empire and Celestia taken out of the picture.)
4) Luna and Twilight work through the losses of their sister and friends respectively
5) after getting through it Twilight, the second youngest Alicorn, with the help of Luna (who has had a taste of Celestia's job now) becomes the Diarch that rules Equestria day by day on top of being the princess of friendship
I hope to see a lot more of this. and i hope to discuss this theory in depth with all of you.
Thank you for your time and consideration. ~Drago
well it woudl surely be a big suprise if Daybreaker would show up lets say in the season finale^^
+Tricky Fox yes it would, or a season premier or other big episode like Slice of Life
I want a return of Daybreaker as a villain from an alternate universe where she rules kinda like Superman in the Injustice timeline.
Funny: the comics (kinda) have one.
I could see the map calling the CMC, the popular background ponies and maybe some of the more prominent side characters. Maybe one day even Fkurryheart. It would be interesting if it could even call Sunset Shimmer back from the other world. The map doesn't need an explanation just yet. I think its good enough to be "Its magic we don't have to explain it" I want to ultimately see a threat so huge that it takes 100s of ponies to take it down.
There is no doubt that spike has a connection with map, hell he even has his own seat. I just really hope he gets called someday.
I want to see Doctor Wolf and Tricky Fox review another map episode, The Parent Map!
just before daybreaker was disintegrated Celestia said that she would never exist again. take that to it's inevitable, logical extreme.
I has a thought when watching this. Particularly the part where they talk about how its interesting that day beaker addresses celestia and not starlight glimmer. Could it be possible that celestia fell asleep while in the dream realm? So then it was a shared dream? (Starlights and celestia's dream.) we know its possible to bring multiple ponies into the same dream when thier asleep can the same be done when one is awake? Or even as they mentioned here that those in the dream still affect it even if it isn't thier dream per say.
Is the intro music from a video game? Like Pokemon, a shrine or something.
i linked it in the description. It's aremix of the sprout tower theme
Tricky Fox Oh OK thanks!
The map is an extension of the Tree of Harmony. So, in theory, anyone whom the tree deems worthy could be sent on a mission.
the question is what makes a pony worthy?^^
Until we get more info about the tree (which is long overdue, in my opinion) then I honestly can't say for sure. But my best guess would be anyone who could have been a potential candidate for one of the elements might be worthy. In Starlight's case, she could have potentially been the bearer of the Element of Magic if circumstances had permitted it.
great discussion between you two. What I find though, is the writers present this scenario and do a good job resolving the conflict as presented. If there was an analog in real life, there wouldn't be an encapsulation like this episode. It is the after analysis where our minds try to fit our reality, morality, and thought processes in a single episode of a fantasy world, that can be changed with a litteral stroke of a pen.
This isn't bad or an excuse, just we can't base our expectations on quid pro quo, take the giant reset button in stride. The rest of season 7 proved to be pretty good, and season 8 was a really strong season. However, with the tease of season 9, a lot of what was discussed here may never see the light of the day. Mainly because the show was about Twilight's journey. It has become more than that, and the canon is pretty much in tact. I don't think the sisters will be explored much more in this generation.
I say the rest of Celestia and Luna's story will need to be played out in the comics and fan fiction.
I'll Like To See Maud Pie & Trixie Be Called By The Map. I Think We Could Get Of Potential Out Of That.
No wonder Luna turned into Nightmare Moon. The ponies, even Celestia in this case, saw her responsibilities as nothing more than a joke. As you said, Tia upheld her land for a millennium w/o Luna.
The final dream sequence would have been better if Starlight's former bad self from the Season 5 premiere confronted her, saying things like, "Why do you even bother with them?," "You've become weak," "You were just fine with power alone, you don't need friendship," etc.
It would've implied that although Starlight was reformed, she still had temptations to return to her old ways. This would've added much more character to her.
While i coudl see that happening, I don't think it would fit into the conflict of this episode
how come dr wolfs video on this colab has more views than this video with the review. at the time I am wrighting this dr wolf has 3340 views and tricky has 2008, and trickys video has been up one hour longer.
80k subs vs 2.5k subs and a lot of people sadly don't really care this much about redirections^^
I didn't know there was already a micro comic story about Luna and Celestia switching places. If this was a coincidence, I guess the series is running out of stories.
No, other ponies won't be called to the cutie mark map because Starlight just like Sunset is the 7th element of harmony. Which by the way is empathy, not forgiveness! I also don't understand why everyone (well almost everyone) likes Sunset but most dislike Starlight? Because to me Starlight is greater then Sunset because Starlight gave friendship to a whole entire civilization! While Sunset only gave friendship to Sci Twilight! Anyway that's my 2 bits you are welcome to discuss with me if you like! ~Rockfeather
When did Starlight teach friendship to a civilization?
Rock Mint Swirl I like sunset More because she had earn every one trust back between starlight didn't and everything was fine and she didn't need to pay for her mistakes and sunset made a entire school understand friendship I know what she done isn't as much but I like her backstory and character development and her personality.
I personally like both Starlight and Sunset for diffrent reasons. While I agree that Sunset had to work a lot more for her friendship with the mane six, she got flanderized in the next movies, which is rather sad. Rainbow Rocks should have focused a ot more on Sunsets Struggle in changing herself and redeeming her actions. Also, I'n my opinion Sunset has the far superior design and a bit more diffrent personality if compared to twillight.
On the other hand, while Starlight started out rather weak and extreme flat, I think that her personal growth over the past few seasons is extremly well handled and also her OPnes is handled well, without making it unbelievabable or quostionable why Starlight does not just solves every problem with magic. However, I still think she is to much Twillight 2.0, even with her own quirks and I hope they keep on making her more unique.
So, in the end I would say that in my case I think that they are, give and take, rather even.
The general thing people dislike about Starlight is that her motive was underwheliming and that she got seemingly got no punishment what so ever unlike Sunset who had to earn the respect of her peers in Rainbow Rocks to be accepted. Starlight also got to few appearances in season 6, her character arc felt a bti rushed as a result. But hey i love them both
I have to disagree, Patrick: I liked Starlight 1.0 because she wasn't an ancient beatstick or OP warper like all the other FiM seasonal antagonists. She used her persuasive power to get what she wanted, and relied very little on her magic, until she had no other choice but to use it. She subverted every single season premiere trope there is in FiM, and she was only a slightly above average Unicorn with some unique spells, nowhere near as powerful as the Mane6.
She wasn't exactly as powerful as she needed to be the way Starlight 2.0 and 2.1 are. She wouldn't be instantly forgiven if she stole Celestia's and Luna's cutie marks the way she did with Ourtown and the Mane6, and she didn't cast anything that should have been impossible for her to do. Yes, Starlight 2.0's backstory was extremely shallow. It's also ridiculous, since she was the one who was more powerful, not Starburst. It didn't make any sense.
Yes, Starlight is more likeable now because she's more modest, but she's still so OP she borders on Mary Sue levels of power, and making the map accept her as an Element Holder like the Mane6 does not help. Also, there has been a LOT of focus on Starlight, almost like the writers want to shift the show away from the Mane6.
And have you noticed how most of the weaker episodes as of season 6 have been Mane6 episodes? Like the writers are having trouble writing them?
Overall Starlight could have been handled better from the season 5 finale onward.
Admittedly, EQG doesn't handle its characters well either: they are teens, and very different from their FiM counterparts, but the writers handle the HuMane6 like they ARE the Mane6, except they often flanderize them. Like Rarity ONLY talking about fashion. Fortunaely, Sunset was handled well through her redemption arc, and even got to pay the lesson forward to SciTwi. Unfortunately, LoE did very little story- or character-wise. But it did make Brad more sympathetic.
Limited role?
1.) Luna controls the night itself, not just the moon. Sure Celestia was strong enough to levitate the moon into place, but I doubt she could rotate all the stars and constelations without losing their place.
2.) Luna is literally the only pony capable of entering the Dream Real and has to constantly govern and secure the dreams of every single pony in the kingdom. As it was shown, nightmares tend to have serious effects on a pony's mental health. Not to mention she has to do this completely on her own without any backup since no ponyelse can even enter dreams. Not to mention she's constantly using her magic just to be in the Dream Real, which clearly drains her by morning. She's literally a one mare squadron!
In the 1000 years she's been banished, no one was there to help ponies with their nightmares. Which would have lead to a lot of sleepless nights for who knows how many, and probably lead to serious mental breakdowns.
Looks like derby got called to the map
I don't feel that it was quite accurate to say that Equestria got along fine without Luna. she said it herself that the nightmare could have a grave effect on Starlight's psyche if it wasn't resolved. I'd have to think it's a real thing because that's not just something it seems Luna would innately know, she would have had to learn that from personal experience. So if it really is a thing, I sincerely doubt that nopony had a nightmare for the years Luna was gone. so unless they touch on those effects on the psyche, I'd have to say preventing ponies from being mentally scarred for life is just as important.
With all of her powers what if Starlight Gilmmer's father is maybe Starswirl the Bearded. Say he can go in time and fell in love with Starlight's mother. And Starlight has all this power and even the map see it.
starlight has used the map for time travel so I guess it would have a record of her magic so it isn't that weird that it doesn't send somepony from the Mane 6
So, what are your opinions on the Cutie Map now that Spike has also had a mission, which was also solo?
I'm cool with it. That being said while i like that Spike can be called by the map it felt really out of place in Triple Threat
What if the map were to call upon Spike for a mission?
6:02 I think they might have made some deal in the history. Luna seems much more introverted than Celestia. Each of them splitted their roles depending on what suits them best.
I still think it's kinda odd considering that Luna turned evil because she didn't feel appreciated enough
+Tricky Fox
That was just an idea. It's not really well thought-through. There could be disagreements within the deals and so.
I blame the plot for this! It creates so many questions and it's unclear. :/
I think this episodes opens up alote of possibilites When it comes to Alicorns. As some of The most powerful beings on Equestira, they all have The possibility to become something els When they are corrupted. Its like that their powers create a duel personality. Now we have seen two (maybe three) of this other personalites. Nightmare moon, Dawnbreaker (Im SO glad they dident call her Nightmare sun or something like that) and IF we count The human world as Canon, At lest a version of Twilights possible Evil form, midnight. Flurryheart is to young for it I think, so now we got to see what Caidance might have.
It feels like to Much magic gives a pony Mutible personality disorder, something im really familiar with.
Starlight has a lot of magical mojo, but I think Starlight is especially powerful with regard to cutie marks. That matches her introduction and I think is a match for her cutie mark.
This would be better as a two part season opener
So...
How's it feel to be one of three main canine characters in the Broanalysis group?
10:11 True.Sometimes I think MLP:FIM could have worked better as a 44 minute series
Firebrand: (to tricky) DR WOLF??
Want to see either a DJ-Octi episode or a LyraBon episode!
Calling it now ,Starlight is Starswirl's decesendant
I think luna doesn't help with the politics and ruling is because after her 1000 year break she isn't used to them yet (which we have seen happen in the episode)
and that is okay. The show sold them as the equal rulers of equestria though^^
so while Celestia maintains order in the waking world by conversing with ponies and managing the lands problems, Luna ensure that those sames ponies are well rested and have good dreams instead of become sleep deprived and having damaged psyches. Kind of makes you wonder:
If Luna helps ponies not get mentally damaged from their own bad & dark dreams....how has Equestria not have millions of ponies going mad for the thousand years Luna was gone. Celestia can't do squat in the Dream Realm, soooooo....what happened?
Luna stated that since she has Celestia MAGIC she has no power in the dream realm, so even if Celestia has figured out a way to go to the dream realm, her day-specific type of magic wouldn't allow her to influence dreams as sleep is associated with the night. all she could do is just watch and nothing more.
Sadly this is yet another episode where I think it could been greatly expanded upon if it was two episodes
It's good to show that *"Magic isn't "Never" able to be part of a Solution, It simply isn't 'The Solution' on its own."* Also, that we may want to remember that the "Map" along with the Tree are parts of an element of far greater power than our current understanding,
_and that likely goes well beyond conventional comprehensions?_ (edler forces ftw, lol)
Although it is tough to say how far into "Eldredge Powers" of Harmony, Anarchy, Tyranny, and Chaos past that of "the Tree" and EoH the current head writing staff want to go...
(getting into Cthulhu levels of Lovecraft kind stuffs is like 'series end' materials?)
Also that to some such point, that their Government would seem to be a *_Constitutional Monarchy/Diarchy_* than an actually Totalitarianist one, eh?
ie, The Princess(es) "Lead" but they don't fully per say 'Rule,' all parts of Gov.
To some point as such, that Tia is to some point a figurehead of State, with some degree of Executive & perhaps Judicial authority but mostly with regards to "Actual" rule of law It's "By Rule of Law" from more localized administries that 'Things get done,' with the Princesses stepping in if needed.
Otherwise most of her role perhaps would be tied into Public Appearance, when not taking time where needed getting to know her Delegates that do most of the per-fact "Ruling" as part of the above said Constitutionalized Government.? Along in turn with helping handle disputes between them.
(Tia is again afterall not "Queen" in these matters by very deliberate choices)
*But yes, Perhaps as the 'map' along with whatever gods/beings or elder powers it is of gains power through the use of the Map to empower "harmony" within their world,* That more can that come into its gaze might well yet become part of its enlisted "corps of helpers" in due time...? ;3
So If daybreaker is Celstias nightmare moon? What would the Nyx be? ;p
Also, I dream of teeth falling out too OwO
Apollo or Helios maybe? Just because they're male... Hmm... I think I go with Apollo. The word Apollon means destroyer, Apollo also has prophecy (Celestia has prophetic dreams)...
isn't Nyx like a clone of Nightmare Moon to begin with?
true, which is why the first question i asked after the epsiode is; if the same thing happened to make a filly clone of Daybreaker, what would the foals name be?
a fan fiction nut needs to know these things ;p
Probably Flare or Corona
Starlifht could als be a potential element of harmony, magic, too.
Sun butt and Moon butt switched but -tattoos- cutie marks☺🙂
Ok that made me laugh
So has the episode finally aired in the US? I can post my review/react this week?
BNuts yeah it released in the us today