I know this is two years after the fact but I'd really like to push back on ring dips being all that unstable in the first place. They are certainly more unstable than using a fixed bar but I think it's about the equivalent difference between dumbbell and barbell bench press. Sure, the dumbbells are more unstable but they are stable enough to do an outstanding job training all of the target muscles and the freedom of movement and slightly lower weight reduces stress on the joints and tendons. Rings aren't much (if at all) more unstable than dumbbells. I think the reason they feel more unstable is that body-weight is too much for most people starting out with the rings and it take a few sessions to get to the point where it feels like you are pushing against something rock solid.
31:58 Usyk actually went on Torokhtiy's channel recently to learn some barbell training. Might just be a publicity angle since they're both big sports stars in Ukraine, but the video is worth a watch!
Wow , happy to see my recommendation for a topic used , made me smile !! Excellent video thanks lads Excellently discussed and helpful to all I'm sure. I was more meaning how machines are designed on a physio basis to isolate but too many use them for training purposes because bodybuilders learned to use them to there benefit to isolate muscles etc Plus there level of safety meant it was very easy to promote for gyms.
The only machine I like during a strength phase is a leg press.. it's probably a personal weakness it brings up, but it feels like it boosts my squat progress when I add it in. The belt squat has seemed to become a staple in a lot of programs recently too but none of the gyms near me have one so I have to improvise if I want something similar.
@@dmhunter15 yeah for sure. I just can’t get that burn on squats without doing like a 20 rep set that absolutely destroys me… My theory is that quads respond better to higher rep ranges because we use them so often for walking that they naturally have a lot of endurance, like wrist, ankle, and shoulder musculature which people often say the same about. I don’t know if there’s any scholarly articles delving into this topic tho - this is purely an anecdotal assessment
Maybe you all have talked about this and I just haven't noticed, but a big thing in combat sports (wrestling, boxing, MMA, I'm sure other ones too) is the balance between strength/muscle mass/force production and cardio/endurance/metabolic recovery. Can you talk about that sort of thing? As you pointed out Fury was a big sorta flabby SOB, and Wilder was much smaller and much leaner. The common wisdom is that is why Wilder was worn out so fast, he was too lean, too muscular, essentially "too fit." I understand the idea of muscles needing more energy, but is the common wisdom 100% correct? Do very muscular athletes just tend to be inefficient in their motions and wear themselves out, or is 1-2% extra muscle or less fat really that big of a difference in semi-endurance type of competitions?
Lets see if they will answer this but I think it is simply more mass = more fatigue. Especially if it is dead weight, fat. If body fat percentage is too low, this will of course affect performance negatively even with secret sauce to compensate. Having fat doesn’t mean you are not fit with good capacity, you are likely just eating too many calories. In the fight I think Fury was in part able to tire out Wilder by leaning on him and using close to 20kg? Weight difference
@@horizonforevergold I would tend to believe that as well, but it seems to be more than just "more mass." It's specifically more muscle mass. That seems pretty counter-intuitive to me, because you don't have to use 100% of your muscle strength in every movement. In my mind the formula would be something like fatigue incriment=intensity of movement*mass moved, so a leaner lighter boxer should (on average) tire out less (assuming the intensity of their movements are comparable), but that didn't seem to happen with Wilder/Fury. It's a common Boxing/MMA thing to worry about getting "too muscular" which sounds like nonsense in the heavyweight ranks, but it does play out that way pretty often. Maybe it's a metabolism thing? 1st store of energy is ATP, then newly digested carbs, then...? Fat?
@@drewe51 I think it has a lot to do with how they throw their punches. Wilder puts 100% max effort or very close to it into every attempt at a knockout blow (look at how Wilder literally flies through the air with the effort he puts into some of his punches). No matter how good your cardio is if you go 100% at every shot you will tire very quickly. Fury on the other hand never really puts 100% into a shot. He uses volume and positioning. Even his knockout shots aren't 100%. Think GSP vs someone like Tyron Woodley. They're both very muscular at the same weight class but their endurance and volume are opposites partially because of the way they fight. Another aspect is just conditioning. Muscle or lack of muscle does not always indicate endurance. Size is just one aspect of what can make someone tire out. Strategy and being put in uncomfortable positions can have a much bigger effect. How many people did Khabib drown on the ground that had amazing cardio? Gaethje was done after one round despite him being a machine in every other fight he's had.
I think I agree with everything except not using a larger diameter bar for grip. The times when my grip has felt the strongest in grappling is when I've been using my axle a lot. It's right about the same diameter as a wrist so it feels very similar. Climbing a rope that's the same size also feels good. Obviously this is n=1 though so your mileage may vary
@@armedjoy3045 yeah I normally just do DOH for my deads until I can't then I swap to mixed. Axle comes in during back down work. I was just disagreeing with them saying they don't think it transfers well
I don't think you're disagreeing with them at all. They are arguing that you should train your grip on the specific diameter you want to get better at i.e. if you want to grip a pullup bar better, hang from something with the same diameter as it. You're saying the same thing: your axle bar improved your grip on things with a similar diameter to the axle, like wrists and thick rope. You're both agreeing specificity is king. They aren't saying gripping thick stuff is useless. They're saying don't grip thick stuff to get better at gripping thin stuff, or vice versa.
I'm a big fan of Electrum Performance, they do S&C for Atos mainly and some other people as well. I know there's some special sauce involved but you can't argue with Andre Galvao's physique and performance. Look up pics of him from ADCC 2019 its insane. Daru from ATT is great as well. Most MMA/BJJ s&c is real far behind though for sure
I have a question about foot wear. Would there be an argument for squatting in bare feet because of the extra Range of motion it offers for the ankles?
A lot of martial artists swear by this. I do it myself and find it strengthens my feet and ankle musculature better than in shoes. As well, I feel like I have a better “anchoring” in the ground when I have my bare feet on the ground - more proprioceptive feedback and easier to grip with the toes, which is especially important for striking and even more so with grappling where you need to use your feet as hands, essentially
I am a professional MMA heavyweight fighter and practice martial arts for 15years (2 pro fights just before covid). I've be doing weightlifting (olympic style and powerlifting) for about 4 years, but I wasn´t consistent in the beggining, since gyms returned here in Brazil i've be doing mainly OWL and hitting the bag because of social distance. Since I am getting back to trainning with partners, what do you suggest to my strengh trainning?... I will tell something about me to help the answer( I guess), I am 187cm tall, 28yo, weight 114kg, best snatch 115kg, best Clean 145, best CJ e jerk 135kg, Back squat 200kg, DL 240, bench 125kg. I'd apreciate your opinion cause I like every thing about weightlifting, follow you Zack, Seb, Juggernaut, Garage strengh, and when combined to fighting it always get my attention... PS: I have my trainners, I will always listen them over you... sorry my grammar.
Weird question; Could weighted knuckle pushups be a good modality for increasing bone density in the hands to decrease rate of punching-related fractures?
Interesting question. Two of the three boxing/kickboxing gyms I’ve been at had us do this regularly, and I would say that it definitely strengthened my wrist strength, especially in extension which helps keep the fist tight when you hit the corner of the hand or on an awkward angle, or very hard or whatever. but I don’t know if it had any effect on the bone density/integrity of the bones of the hand. It did get less painful over time so there was a bit of a numbing effect.
Whats the odds we can get a video on rotational training? I've been trying to find a lowest effective dose of rotational work for myself and my athletes just to keep the skill/movement pattern, the more I study people the more I notice people training themselves out of rotation.
Have a look at throwing core development, especially shot and disc as they follow the resist, brace, and rotate classification of core exercises within the execution of the sport so their training is definitely highly relevant for you it seems
@@danielghesquiere2011 I wouldn't see how strength work would decrease the athletes ability to rotate, if anything it would be net neutral at worst assuming they're still doing the rest of their training whatever that is, in the case of fighting it being kicking and striking
@@electivirethrows4298 likely motor learning among other things. Go to your local powerlifting gym and have some laughs at their rotational competency. Less worried about improving rotation, more interested in not losing it as an attribute during long strength blocks.
It’s cool and all to talk shop but do either of you train an MMA athlete currently? Have either of you trained a martial art? I thought you were both full time weightlifting coaches? This conversation seems very hypothetical when you don’t have experience training for fighting.
I have a black belt in Tae Kwon Do. Daire coaches and has coached athletes in martial arts for S&C. We help athletes of all sports. However sound information is sound information. Use it or not at your own discretion. It'll only effect you.
From some of their comments elsewhere I’m pretty confident they’ve done S&C for combat sport athletes, but don’t have much personal experience. I know for a fact they train powerlifters and crossfitters as well as oly lifters.
"Shark tank born killers" and "Cold blooded arsonists kidnapping kids" I'm fucking dead, bang on with the names
I'm still laughing at this 🤣
This should be mandatory viewing for some people I know
I know this is two years after the fact but I'd really like to push back on ring dips being all that unstable in the first place. They are certainly more unstable than using a fixed bar but I think it's about the equivalent difference between dumbbell and barbell bench press. Sure, the dumbbells are more unstable but they are stable enough to do an outstanding job training all of the target muscles and the freedom of movement and slightly lower weight reduces stress on the joints and tendons. Rings aren't much (if at all) more unstable than dumbbells. I think the reason they feel more unstable is that body-weight is too much for most people starting out with the rings and it take a few sessions to get to the point where it feels like you are pushing against something rock solid.
31:58 Usyk actually went on Torokhtiy's channel recently to learn some barbell training. Might just be a publicity angle since they're both big sports stars in Ukraine, but the video is worth a watch!
that was 2 years ago maybe even 3
literally just watched it today as a fan of both sports was cool to see
This has to be one of the best videos I’ve ever seen on this subject, absolutely outstanding 💪🏽
Wow , happy to see my recommendation for a topic used , made me smile !!
Excellent video thanks lads
Excellently discussed and helpful to all I'm sure.
I was more meaning how machines are designed on a physio basis to isolate but too many use them for training purposes because bodybuilders learned to use them to there benefit to isolate muscles etc Plus there level of safety meant it was very easy to promote for gyms.
Sika Station for Dissemination of Information. 💪💪
"Putting in work tired"
Preach it Fitz !
You boys are very halirous and informative. Keep it up lads 🙌
Thanks for the advice, much appreciated!
The only machine I like during a strength phase is a leg press.. it's probably a personal weakness it brings up, but it feels like it boosts my squat progress when I add it in. The belt squat has seemed to become a staple in a lot of programs recently too but none of the gyms near me have one so I have to improvise if I want something similar.
Me too. I find it’s a good way to get volume for my quads without any axial loading
@@leftphilange69 yup. Just load up the quads with a shit ton of blood at the end of your session. Feels great
@@dmhunter15 yeah for sure. I just can’t get that burn on squats without doing like a 20 rep set that absolutely destroys me… My theory is that quads respond better to higher rep ranges because we use them so often for walking that they naturally have a lot of endurance, like wrist, ankle, and shoulder musculature which people often say the same about. I don’t know if there’s any scholarly articles delving into this topic tho - this is purely an anecdotal assessment
@@leftphilange69 sounds logical
Maybe you all have talked about this and I just haven't noticed, but a big thing in combat sports (wrestling, boxing, MMA, I'm sure other ones too) is the balance between strength/muscle mass/force production and cardio/endurance/metabolic recovery. Can you talk about that sort of thing? As you pointed out Fury was a big sorta flabby SOB, and Wilder was much smaller and much leaner. The common wisdom is that is why Wilder was worn out so fast, he was too lean, too muscular, essentially "too fit." I understand the idea of muscles needing more energy, but is the common wisdom 100% correct? Do very muscular athletes just tend to be inefficient in their motions and wear themselves out, or is 1-2% extra muscle or less fat really that big of a difference in semi-endurance type of competitions?
Lets see if they will answer this but I think it is simply more mass = more fatigue. Especially if it is dead weight, fat.
If body fat percentage is too low, this will of course affect performance negatively even with secret sauce to compensate.
Having fat doesn’t mean you are not fit with good capacity, you are likely just eating too many calories. In the fight I think Fury was in part able to tire out Wilder by leaning on him and using close to 20kg? Weight difference
@@horizonforevergold I would tend to believe that as well, but it seems to be more than just "more mass." It's specifically more muscle mass. That seems pretty counter-intuitive to me, because you don't have to use 100% of your muscle strength in every movement.
In my mind the formula would be something like fatigue incriment=intensity of movement*mass moved, so a leaner lighter boxer should (on average) tire out less (assuming the intensity of their movements are comparable), but that didn't seem to happen with Wilder/Fury. It's a common Boxing/MMA thing to worry about getting "too muscular" which sounds like nonsense in the heavyweight ranks, but it does play out that way pretty often.
Maybe it's a metabolism thing? 1st store of energy is ATP, then newly digested carbs, then...? Fat?
@@drewe51 I think it has a lot to do with how they throw their punches. Wilder puts 100% max effort or very close to it into every attempt at a knockout blow (look at how Wilder literally flies through the air with the effort he puts into some of his punches). No matter how good your cardio is if you go 100% at every shot you will tire very quickly. Fury on the other hand never really puts 100% into a shot. He uses volume and positioning. Even his knockout shots aren't 100%. Think GSP vs someone like Tyron Woodley. They're both very muscular at the same weight class but their endurance and volume are opposites partially because of the way they fight.
Another aspect is just conditioning. Muscle or lack of muscle does not always indicate endurance.
Size is just one aspect of what can make someone tire out. Strategy and being put in uncomfortable positions can have a much bigger effect. How many people did Khabib drown on the ground that had amazing cardio? Gaethje was done after one round despite him being a machine in every other fight he's had.
I think I agree with everything except not using a larger diameter bar for grip.
The times when my grip has felt the strongest in grappling is when I've been using my axle a lot. It's right about the same diameter as a wrist so it feels very similar. Climbing a rope that's the same size also feels good.
Obviously this is n=1 though so your mileage may vary
I think it makes sense to focus on strength for your strength work and then do supplementary grip work.
@@armedjoy3045 yeah I normally just do DOH for my deads until I can't then I swap to mixed. Axle comes in during back down work.
I was just disagreeing with them saying they don't think it transfers well
I don't think you're disagreeing with them at all. They are arguing that you should train your grip on the specific diameter you want to get better at i.e. if you want to grip a pullup bar better, hang from something with the same diameter as it. You're saying the same thing: your axle bar improved your grip on things with a similar diameter to the axle, like wrists and thick rope. You're both agreeing specificity is king. They aren't saying gripping thick stuff is useless. They're saying don't grip thick stuff to get better at gripping thin stuff, or vice versa.
Really appreciate the answer:)
I'm a big fan of Electrum Performance, they do S&C for Atos mainly and some other people as well. I know there's some special sauce involved but you can't argue with Andre Galvao's physique and performance. Look up pics of him from ADCC 2019 its insane.
Daru from ATT is great as well. Most MMA/BJJ s&c is real far behind though for sure
Their physiques definitely have nothing to do with BJJ being full of Saucy Bois.
lol after watching this I'll stop pretending im doing still ring dips because i think they're practically and just admit its because i enjoy them
Thank you
Is one of this comming for wl any time soon?
Suffering Moses
bullying the bully
I have a question about foot wear. Would there be an argument for squatting in bare feet because of the extra Range of motion it offers for the ankles?
A lot of martial artists swear by this. I do it myself and find it strengthens my feet and ankle musculature better than in shoes. As well, I feel like I have a better “anchoring” in the ground when I have my bare feet on the ground - more proprioceptive feedback and easier to grip with the toes, which is especially important for striking and even more so with grappling where you need to use your feet as hands, essentially
I thought guy on left was Josh Barnett from thumbnail.
I am a professional MMA heavyweight fighter and practice martial arts for 15years (2 pro fights just before covid). I've be doing weightlifting (olympic style and powerlifting) for about 4 years, but I wasn´t consistent in the beggining, since gyms returned here in Brazil i've be doing mainly OWL and hitting the bag because of social distance. Since I am getting back to trainning with partners, what do you suggest to my strengh trainning?... I will tell something about me to help the answer( I guess), I am 187cm tall, 28yo, weight 114kg, best snatch 115kg, best Clean 145, best CJ e jerk 135kg, Back squat 200kg, DL 240, bench 125kg. I'd apreciate your opinion cause I like every thing about weightlifting, follow you Zack, Seb, Juggernaut, Garage strengh, and when combined to fighting it always get my attention... PS: I have my trainners, I will always listen them over you... sorry my grammar.
They have a training program for combat sports on their website, if you want to check that out.
Weird question;
Could weighted knuckle pushups be a good modality for increasing bone density in the hands to decrease rate of punching-related fractures?
Interesting question. Two of the three boxing/kickboxing gyms I’ve been at had us do this regularly, and I would say that it definitely strengthened my wrist strength, especially in extension which helps keep the fist tight when you hit the corner of the hand or on an awkward angle, or very hard or whatever. but I don’t know if it had any effect on the bone density/integrity of the bones of the hand. It did get less painful over time so there was a bit of a numbing effect.
Whats the odds we can get a video on rotational training? I've been trying to find a lowest effective dose of rotational work for myself and my athletes just to keep the skill/movement pattern, the more I study people the more I notice people training themselves out of rotation.
Have a look at throwing core development, especially shot and disc as they follow the resist, brace, and rotate classification of core exercises within the execution of the sport so their training is definitely highly relevant for you it seems
There's a bit here: ua-cam.com/video/_HHJqMwA9kg/v-deo.html
I suppose that was too vague, I'm interested on the topic of strength work eroding rotational ability and how to mitigate that risk.
@@danielghesquiere2011 I wouldn't see how strength work would decrease the athletes ability to rotate, if anything it would be net neutral at worst assuming they're still doing the rest of their training whatever that is, in the case of fighting it being kicking and striking
@@electivirethrows4298 likely motor learning among other things. Go to your local powerlifting gym and have some laughs at their rotational competency. Less worried about improving rotation, more interested in not losing it as an attribute during long strength blocks.
Low Bar Squats barefoot or flat shoes for absolute strength?
Squat high bar
With your feet together
Here before bald omniman
He's not here yet, I'm worried.
the only thing strength question that matters right now is the price of meat lol
1:44 Did he say anus?
Awareness. You heard what you wanted 🤣
Not sure I like the sounds of sikastan insemination. It's all starting to look like an episode of Oz.
It’s cool and all to talk shop but do either of you train an MMA athlete currently? Have either of you trained a martial art? I thought you were both full time weightlifting coaches? This conversation seems very hypothetical when you don’t have experience training for fighting.
I have a black belt in Tae Kwon Do. Daire coaches and has coached athletes in martial arts for S&C. We help athletes of all sports.
However sound information is sound information. Use it or not at your own discretion. It'll only effect you.
From some of their comments elsewhere I’m pretty confident they’ve done S&C for combat sport athletes, but don’t have much personal experience. I know for a fact they train powerlifters and crossfitters as well as oly lifters.