I could see them doing a thing where he's pissed at them trying to pull him back into the group. He's happy with his daughter and dosnt wanna risk that to "save the world".
6:15 The dichotomy of table to screen is heartbreaking and hilarious Table: "WHAT'S MY MOTHER'S NAME?" Screen: "I don't want to bring down the room..."
I've thought about the song "Circle the World" a lot since the season finale. Sam said on Beacon's discord he recorded that the night before his cancer surgery and he began chemo. They ended the season (in a sense) before knowing not just whether they would get a 4th season... but whether SAM HIMSELF might be around for it! Would you want to end something you love with your friends on as negative a note as "Bard's Lament"?
Sam was diagnosed early this year, the episodes were written long before that. He was recording the night before surgery because music is one of the final things added, the song was very likely already written back with the script as it appears throughout the season as a plot point. They can't have changed anything significant just due to Sams health
Honestly was the only thing I remembered from the actual episode other than the thing about the mother's name. He sang the song to the tune of whatever the football team fight song is that Sam likes in real life that's Travis's team rival. They had ongoing banter about the two teams earlier in the campaign as out of character talk.
Seeing Bards Lameant live for the first time was SHOCKING. You could tell something was stirring and Sam was holding back his energy almost the entire session until suddenly, all the laughs stopped and the tears started.
I was really hoping to see Bards lament. It was such a powerful moment in the campain and i though they hintted at it throughout the LOVM of how scanland would do this own thing constantly... oh well, season 3 is still very good
Oh man, I've seen the original so many times and it never gets old! Superb acting on Sam's part. Even other players couldnt see through it! Was reaaaally looking forward to see it. But it's what it is. I guess there's nothing left for us but to tary on
@@smashbrandiscootch719 yeaaaaah not sure if tary is even gonna happen at this point, or if that whole arc will even happen, its looking like 4 might be the last season
@@the_enderslayer I garantee you, Tary is in S4. 100%. And the whole following arc is at least 2 seasons long. They werent sure about getting S4 because Chroma Conclave ends here and Amazons probably wanted to see how they deliver first
At first, I was sad to find out that the iconic scene wouldn't be animated, but it definitely does make sense why they went another route, and I like what was done!
I also missed the "I forgive you, but I can't let you live." moment from Percy. That All forgiving route he went is the thing I disliked the most. He is not the big sanctified hero, he is a warrior, and he knows that life need things to live for, and sometimes, shit need to be killed.
As much as I wish we could’ve ended with Bard’s Lament, I get why it probably wouldn’t have worked, especially if they weren’t greenlit for another season. Still hope we see Tary in the future though!
They could make it like they wanna get VM back together for all the whispered one stuff and scanlan doesnt want to since he's happy with Kaylie and thats where we get the "bards lament" moment so they get Tary instead for a bit
I mean, was there ever a reason for Tary? 😅 I’m sure we’ll get him in the show for the same reason we got him in the campaign: Sam wants to introduce his fun new character. We may not get as much of him as we did in the campaign, but I’m sure we’ll still get the important moments. Keep in mind that Sam is in fact perfectly capable of voicing two different characters in the same episode.
@@marsipio1733 Honestly they could easily add Terry if you listen to the set up at the end of the season. He wants time to spend time with and travel with his daughter. So they'll try to get someone to replace him (for the time being) and boom terry.
@noratrevalyn5582 I'm not sure about that because, unlike the campaign, in LOVM everyone was going their own way. I'm guessing in this time apart, Vex and Percy will get married, Kielith and Vax will go to the water tribe for her arimente (not sure if that's how's spelled 😅). I remember in the campaign there was the time they adventured with Terry but there was also a 1 year gap after bards lament. With Vekna around the corner and no guarantee of a 5th season they might want to wrap it soon.
i appreciate that you made this despite the similarities being slim to none, a lot of people have wondered why it was changed and there are also a great many people that didn't even know something *was* changed, so it's cool having this out there
I get that they tried to honor it and it didn't work out, but even if that was the final season, I would be impressed that they made that ballsy choice with the proper setup involved. In the end though, these are two different Scanlan's from what i can see. I hope they manage to honor it in season 4 like they alluded to, I think that would be awesome!
@@smashbrandiscootch719 i can see something as simple as holding up a facade while his daughter is there but is secretly pissed off of the group for what they did. i think many of us in real life have experienced that... just seething at someone but acting like everything's fine until you have a moment to really let them know how you feel at the right time.
I feel like the show is sort of a what-if type scenario if Pike had been there in the actual game. No blame on Ashley or Pike, but the show does a fantastic job of showing how Pike being present and helpful to Scanlan during that time really changed his outlook. No pudding nightdress wake-up (a prank that just had poor timing in the liveplay show), just love from Pike and Kaylee. Scanlan also didnt "die" like Percy did, so that's also quite different.
I mean obviously its sad that we dont get that classic bards lament. But i do think as a story beat it does fit better, and it also lets Scanlan leave Pyke with a goodbye this time.
now that i finally know what the Bard's Lament was all about (tbh i was waiting to see this video, i knew it's gonna come up after the season 3 ending) i think it still can be achieved in season 4, perhaps not as dramatic or impactful as it could've been in the end of S3, but still a pretty strong scene establishing that no, Scanlan is not going back, he's finally at peace and his time adventuring is over. making a room for... someone new, if you know what i mean ;)
@@TPBurrow yeah, i think that season 4 will be the final one, so if they have any big guns left, they'll probably use them somewhere in this season and then focus more on Mighty Nein and making preps for Bells Hells TV show, which i think is a guarantee at this point
I don't think they'll make room for a new character instead of Scanlan, especially if S4 is the last (I really hope not because I love Vox!!!). It would confuse everyone who hasn't watched the campaigns and moreover, Scanlan has still things going on. He may have solved his relationship with his daughter, but he must improve his relationship with VM and understand that the group, after all, is his family... There is also his romance with Pike, his friendship with Grog which is put to the test, the Counterspell scene is too important to be cut. In my opinion, even more important than the Lament.
This is not that moment. If anything, they are saving it. They said they want to do it Justice. So maybe they still will. I refuse to accept that this is the alternative. Its too important and Iconic and is a HUUUUUUGGGGEEEEEEEE part of his character the development of them team.
I hope they still rework this moment in some way down the line like Sam alluded to bc by the end of season 3 it still doesn’t feel like any of the personal issues Scanlan might have with the group get resolved. I don’t think there needs to be the “what’s my mothers name?” moment or even a big blow up, from a narrative perspective I understand why they cut it, I just think Scanlan being more upfront about his issues to the group and having him acknowledged in return would be beneficial, bc every time he’s clearly having a crisis the group as a collective have little to no care or acknowledgment of it despite the fact that everyone else has climaxes involving the group looking out for them. But here Scanlan addressing that he didn’t even like who he was with Vox Machina is quickly softened by him going “I don’t wanna bring down the room” and we move on. Like I think that’s why I don’t fully understand the perspective that it’s different bc “they were nicer in this adaptation” when only Pike ever bothers checking in on him and he’s the only character where there’s no group effort behind his struggles. Which I’d understand more if he was still portrayed as the same exact careless comic relief persona from most of season 1 but we’ve also now seen him give Vax the advice that made him confront the Raven Queen, kill a dragon bc he believed in Vax, help Pike and Grog heal/get back to health, create individual rooms catered to everyone’s interests in his chateau, blame himself for Percy’s death and apologize to Vex for it, etc. He’s gotten so much development over the show so it’s weird to now be 3 seasons in and have it STILL feel like the group barely even know him.
Ya people who say they are nicer this time don't really see everything. I can pull up a lot of times where they took scanlan as a joke or attacked him. Scanbow people thinking he was useless on his own and would not be able to handle a distraction without help, vax calling him a coward for not wanting to fight the dragon, his break down about his daughter during diner and only like went to comfort him, when he got drunk with his daughter and broke down Infront of everyone and vex says no one cares cuz Percy. He then proceeded to save Percy and still no one checked in to see if he was ok. This is just off the top of my head and there's prob a lot more I can't think of ATM because it's been a while since I watched.
@ Exactly, the only thing omitted was the group pulling the prank on him bc of the changed story beats, aside from that they still include the group having a very dismissive attitude towards him. Even towards the end he’s literally in a coma and over half the group leaves/doesn’t care, then he comes back to aid Keyleth and the rest with Raishan and again no one cares or says anything about him getting out of a coma, it’s weird. He’s proven himself to them before so I don’t really understand the point in having them continue to think so little of him if it’s never gonna get addressed.
It'll be interesting which direction season 4 takes. With VM separate there are some stories of them separated that could be quite interesting Vax & Kiki on the Aramente which means water trial, Vex could do the Grey Hunt, maybe we see Grog vs Kern, Pike's relatives, Scanlan & Kaylee starting their "business" and the big question will we get to see Tary?
Of all the disappointments I had over this season (giving half of Keyleth's character growth to Vax, a very flaccid and meaningless "Fix him", and is Pike having a "you're the chosen one" ala Star Wars arc thrown in?...) this was my biggest let down. I didn't like Scanlan until Bard's Lament. I thought he was just a 2-dimensional frat-boy chasing after girls and drugs. But this moment slapped everyone across the face, myself included. It was an awesome reminder that sometimes it's all just a cover to hide the pain and loneliness a person really feels. It was such an honest moment, and brave choice. That was the moment I started to actually take Sam seriously, as both an actor and a player. The campaign is full of brave choices. Marisha chose to play Keyleth the way she did even though she got hate from the fandom. Laura chose to take Vex on a journey of forgiveness. Taliesan chose to explore the mindset of a person who created a tool of destruction. And Sam chose to break the group's heart. But the brave choices have gone out the window now that there's money involved. They could have taken a stand and said "If this is how the series ends, so be it! Let Amazon have their Firefly fan backlash! If people want to see what happens next, they can watch the campaign on our streaming platforms!" They have stopped trusting their fans to be able to follow shades of grey in their heroes, and instead have been relying on tried and true tropes that "fix" their mistakes. As someone who was drawn to the complexity of the characters and the story, LoVM is turning into just another animated show that I've seen somewhere before. Honestly, this season has lead myself (and some of my other Critter friends) to wonder if watching Mighty Nein will be worth it, or will be more of the same "new and improved" watered-down-spoon-fed BS.
Here is the thing, its the Teseus ship all over again, if they change small but significant parts of the story, if they keep pushing to surprise the fans and keep changing the details of all, is this still critical role? Do i still like it? I mean a powerfull episode changin in to a song, a stupid error but a epic one transform into a easteregg. I dont know. Its good, its a very good show, but isnt critical role
I was already finding season 3 a bit disappointing compared to the first two (not bad by any means, just disappointing), but I knew it would redeem itself as it built up to Bard's Lament...and then it didn't. What a waste.
Just like any adaptation there has to be changes to fit the medium and tell a good story. I have loved the show even through the changes from the stream. If i want to relive those moments I listen to the stream.
I feel like Sam constantly downplays Scanlan in the animated series, first with his amazing fight at the noble house in Whitestone and now with how a bard’s lament was handled. I feel it makes Scanlan far less interesting. They also didn’t kill him so that Percy’s death had more weight. I think it’s silly to worry about not getting another season when even if that were the case, the internet exists, it would be extremely easy for anyone to look up what happened in the campaign for an answer.
I wish they had had the guts to give us a version of the Bard's Lament that at least included "You've never done anything for me: what's my mother's name?" and "then be with your daughter; stop treating her like a sacred object, treat her like a daughter!" It seemed like they had been building up to the Bard's Lament since season 2 episode 1. He was even super drunk with spilled wine on his shirt in a S3E3. So I was very surprised that the build up to Scanlan going is own way was just this lame scene at the end where everyone was fine. Felt like they completely didn't need to have Scanlan go off on his own in Ank'Harel & then again to miss the Isle of Glintshore fight when no one in VM was all that shocked or sad about it. All those side stuff that was animated just took time out of the episodes when they could have been focusing on having time to do more faithful adaptations of "VM how do you want to do this" on the Ripley kill.
I can see both sides. But I agree, there was a lot of good build-up that got me hyped. It was a side story, that would suddenly become the next chapter of their adventure. And one would be able to trace the conflict back, growing naturally. And its what happens to a lot if not all great music bands, friends groups and any collective, so it makes their wild relationship way more real in a way.
thats the thing, the fact that it had been built up for so long, even earlier than season 2, in Scanbo they were already doubting his abilities and calling his plans bad jokes all that kinda not building to any kind of confrontation felt like lighting the fuse and not detonating
As sad as I am with the bards lament on the show, I'm more disappointed with the "fix him" scene. Grog demanding all his magical friends do anything they could to bring him back, because he's just the big dumb tough guy worked so well in the game, I don't see why it couldn't work in show.
I'm okay with changing some things around, but this was one of those moments that NEEDS to be in the show. We already didn't get the proper FIX HIM. If they don't give the 9th level counterspell justice, the show is dead to me.
When the season first ended I was very sad we didn’t get it, just cause the acting was superb and in a way beautiful. But here I am a week(?) later, and I totally get it. It wouldn’t have fit. The show and the campaign just had Vox Machina at different points. Scanlan, though he has a lot of reason to feel animosity and separation, didn’t neatly have the same level of animosity as in the campaign at this point in the story.
The only thing missing really was his death and his promises to his daughter and them desiccating his corpse which where all changed because they decided not to do this story beat. It definitely would have fit and worked fine unfortunately they didn't know they would get a next seasons so it was scrapped so they could have mice tie ups.
@ true. They didn’t want to end the story on such a downer note. However I’m hopeful we’ll still get Bard’s Lament. When Vox Machina reunites in the upcoming s4, Scanlan can make the promise to Kayle, and break it. It won’t lead to a long departure, though. Most likely it will mean Scanlan swooping in at the last second of whatever battle
@@brandanpalmer ya they didint want a sad ending. While I wanted bards element this season I do feel it would be worse to include it later on then just leaving it out now... Mainly because they already separated wouldn't make sense to get back together when scanlen leaves again. Maybe a smaller version of bards lement where scanlen finds his self worth and confronts them about how they treat him but I don't think it would have the same impact as it would have had here.
Adding my voice as another person who didn’t enjoy Scanlan’s outburst when it happened in the campaign, and is not at all sad to see it absent from season three. (In my opinion it was a big example of not meeting the energy of the other players, and hugely changing the tone of the scene without warning to force a very specific event.) Honestly, I do believe that if they had laid a proper groundwork over this whole season, they could have made it work, and work much better than it did in the campaign. But they chose not to do that, for the perfectly legitimate reason that they have a story to tell and only so much time to tell it. Sam has been heavily involved in the writing for the whole show, and literally wrote this last episode of the season. Scanlan has and will continue to get his moments to shine, but this particular one just doesn’t fit, at least for now.
The moment fit just fine the group showed through out the whole series that they really don't care about scanlens problems and think he's kind of just a joke. If they would have known they where getting another season then ya it would have fit perfectly unfortunately they didn't and in doing so kind of disrupted on of scanlans biggest story points from the campaign.
As much as people want to say there was no build-up to an actual Bards Lament happening, Scanlans relationship with the team has never been good, even if there was no breaking point of the awful prank. If he viewed them as actual family he would not say somthing so blunt and dismissive. Looking at Pike and Grogs reaction to all this, the fact theyre the ones left behind when the others all split, I think those words are going to affect them significantly next season. Especially Pike going through this new crisis of faith being abandoned by her goddess and now her friends just like Zerxus said.....and thinking about what could have possibly raised the doubt of her life "being better without the Everlight", the only thing I can come up with is that she dosent have a "real" family, the rest of the Trickfoots, because of the religious divide.
Such a shame they decided not to build to Bards Lament. Really big moment not only for Scanlan, but for the rest of Vox Machina. Without it, the show is a lot less interesting.
@@connordonlon4103 How? Scanlan not leaving the group and instead completely resolving his issues with Kaylee and the group is far worse. No drama, no change in the character dynamics. Just everybody makes up and is friends again. Boring.
@@connordonlon4103 it would not have worked. As they explained in the video. It was not earned. And part of that is due to having Pike in the group full time. As it is, many non critters were very confused by his dismissal of the group as "not family". If they had done the full bard's lament it might have been cool for us, but for anyone else that hasn't st through several hundred hours of content, it would have felt so out of left field and would have left the season on an annoying and confusing note. The show is not YOUR show, its OUR show, which includes the cast but also people who have never watched a moment of the live play.
But many of Scanlan's issues have not been solved. Maybe he resolved the situation with his daughter, but not with the group. That "you are like family but my daughter is the real family" will be discussed in the next season, especially by Pike and Grog.
@@darkguardian50It didn't feel earned because they wrote the season around it not happening, it could have easily worked. Pikes presence didnt even stop him from leaving, why would it have stopped from him being angry with the rest of the group? Obviously there's not time for the _full runtime_ of Bards Lament, we could have had the real emotion of the event before having Pike interrupt
The Bard's Lament was always kind of broken drama - it was strong, but it made zero sense for his character or the situation. I was curious to see if they would do it ... I'm glad they did not.
Zero sense for his character? You mean the character that died twice, is addicted to drugs, is starting to feel not only useless, but a burden to the party and wakes up humiliated by his own friends? I'd say lashing out at the party, leaving without a word or becoming suicidal are all appropriate reactions. And the best one for the show is the first one, so that's what Scanlan would do
Idk people who say it made no sense for his character are people who seem to only be looking on surface levels. Scanlen is a joker but when has he ever desecrated his friends corpse and embarrassed them Infront of their daughter and also brought her knowing that he promised he would not die to see his corpse and looking like that.
Absolutely thrilled they changed it. I know this is an unpopular opinion, but I always found the Bards Lament moment to be like Tiberius level cringe. Just Sam having a bit blow up for the sake of drama. It came out of absolutely nowhere, was ill-founded and feels awkward and uncomfortable. Terrible moment in Campaign 1 that was artfully changed into a beautiful moment in the show. Well done to the Critical Role team and nothing but love for Sam.
It only came out of nowhere when you look at it surface level and don't listen to why he's actually mad. People with this view are just upset that their fav characterrs got put in their place.
I'm so fucking happy that they retconned this part. Scanlan was an ass here in the campaign. The drama was unnecessary and could have been absolutely avoided. The show done it much better.
Nah they where the asses I would leave my friends to if the desecrated my corpse and went against my wishes and invited my daughter to see me in that light
Good, I hated that scene. It felt so entirely disingenuous on Sam's part to pull that out of nowhere, especially when it so quickly became clear that he was just shelving Scanlan to play another character.
The whole show has been bad from the beginning. If I funded this utter shit i'd be so mad with how bad it is. With this and how bad campaign three is looks like Crit role has had it's time in the sun and is now passing into obscurity.
I honestly just don't think it would work in the show. He doesn't end up breaking a promise to his daughter, she doesn't see him dead, and Pike has been checking in on him all season. Him losing his shit saying none of them care wouldn't make sense because it's very clearly not true. For the context of the show I think not including it was the right call
They literally write the show. The context didn't work because they made it not work by writing it the way they did. I don't understand this argument as if their hands were tied and they had no other choice. It's ok to think this was a better way for them to do it, but let's not pretend they had no agency over the way this played out in the show
It's because they decided not to move forward with it. They chopped up scanlens character arc and gave it to everyone else. There's been multiple times where he was taken as a joke, called a coward, or even told his problems do not mater no one cares. They just didn't throw the last straw to break the camels back basically because they decided not to do it. Instead it was cut. Scanlens death cut to make Percy's death more impactful, keyleth leaving because no one listens to her also was similar to Scanlens reason in the campaign.
I mean there's more then enough examples through out the series that it would not have really came out of no where. Taking a big plot point from someone kind of takes away from their character as a whole. Do I still like the show yes but I do think this was kind of a mistake. A mistake that happened because they didn't know if they where getting another session but mistake still non the less
@jamaalgaylord5029 still seems like people are overhyping that moment some. Like when other stories get adapted from a source, if it can still go on fine without a cut part, then it probably wasn't as important as people say
@Axel_Kasai it's kind of important as they had to change a lot of the story to not include it. Can it still be a good story yes but how many changes can you make before you start saying the story is loosely based on campaign one of critical role. I'm still super excited and want to see more but it definitely took away from the story to not have it which is kind of the point.
Your comment is a wild take, but no argument to be had. I really enjoy the show, but I agree that the moments at the table that really mattered seem to be... diminished in the animation. I feel this (Bards Lamaent) is the BIGGEST missed opportunity the entire show has taken so far
![Meeting Caduceus Clay [Spoilers for Ep 26 on]](/img/n.gif)
I could see them doing a thing where he's pissed at them trying to pull him back into the group. He's happy with his daughter and dosnt wanna risk that to "save the world".
Considering thats what keyleth is feeling in the current campaign with VM getting back together there this is most likely what will happen
6:15 The dichotomy of table to screen is heartbreaking and hilarious
Table: "WHAT'S MY MOTHER'S NAME?"
Screen: "I don't want to bring down the room..."
I've thought about the song "Circle the World" a lot since the season finale.
Sam said on Beacon's discord he recorded that the night before his cancer surgery and he began chemo. They ended the season (in a sense) before knowing not just whether they would get a 4th season... but whether SAM HIMSELF might be around for it!
Would you want to end something you love with your friends on as negative a note as "Bard's Lament"?
Pinning this, ♥
Sam was diagnosed early this year, the episodes were written long before that. He was recording the night before surgery because music is one of the final things added, the song was very likely already written back with the script as it appears throughout the season as a plot point.
They can't have changed anything significant just due to Sams health
@@smashbrandiscootch719 that's because you're an asshole and all you do is jump on everything CR related and act like an asshole.🖕
3:40 Grog being sad about not being one of the voices Scanlan heard is gold and easily overlooked. I almost forgot about it myself. Oh poor buddies.
HIS SONG AT THE TABLE IN REAL TIME BROUGHT ME TO UGLY SOBS
Honestly was the only thing I remembered from the actual episode other than the thing about the mother's name. He sang the song to the tune of whatever the football team fight song is that Sam likes in real life that's Travis's team rival. They had ongoing banter about the two teams earlier in the campaign as out of character talk.
Seeing Bards Lameant live for the first time was SHOCKING. You could tell something was stirring and Sam was holding back his energy almost the entire session until suddenly, all the laughs stopped and the tears started.
And then, Tary cried "Oy, Elf girl..."
Huahuauhauhauhahu
@@TheAsmodha *"Oi! LITTLE elf girl"
I was really hoping to see Bards lament. It was such a powerful moment in the campain and i though they hintted at it throughout the LOVM of how scanland would do this own thing constantly... oh well, season 3 is still very good
Yes, its a good adaptation of the campaign.
Oh man, I've seen the original so many times and it never gets old! Superb acting on Sam's part. Even other players couldnt see through it!
Was reaaaally looking forward to see it. But it's what it is. I guess there's nothing left for us but to tary on
@@smashbrandiscootch719 yeaaaaah not sure if tary is even gonna happen at this point, or if that whole arc will even happen, its looking like 4 might be the last season
@@the_enderslayer I garantee you, Tary is in S4. 100%. And the whole following arc is at least 2 seasons long. They werent sure about getting S4 because Chroma Conclave ends here and Amazons probably wanted to see how they deliver first
At first, I was sad to find out that the iconic scene wouldn't be animated, but it definitely does make sense why they went another route, and I like what was done!
I also missed the "I forgive you, but I can't let you live." moment from Percy. That All forgiving route he went is the thing I disliked the most. He is not the big sanctified hero, he is a warrior, and he knows that life need things to live for, and sometimes, shit need to be killed.
As much as I wish we could’ve ended with Bard’s Lament, I get why it probably wouldn’t have worked, especially if they weren’t greenlit for another season. Still hope we see Tary in the future though!
Without bards lament I don't know how they can add Tery
They could make it like they wanna get VM back together for all the whispered one stuff and scanlan doesnt want to since he's happy with Kaylie and thats where we get the "bards lament" moment so they get Tary instead for a bit
I mean, was there ever a reason for Tary? 😅
I’m sure we’ll get him in the show for the same reason we got him in the campaign: Sam wants to introduce his fun new character. We may not get as much of him as we did in the campaign, but I’m sure we’ll still get the important moments. Keep in mind that Sam is in fact perfectly capable of voicing two different characters in the same episode.
@@marsipio1733 Honestly they could easily add Terry if you listen to the set up at the end of the season. He wants time to spend time with and travel with his daughter. So they'll try to get someone to replace him (for the time being) and boom terry.
@noratrevalyn5582 I'm not sure about that because, unlike the campaign, in LOVM everyone was going their own way. I'm guessing in this time apart, Vex and Percy will get married, Kielith and Vax will go to the water tribe for her arimente (not sure if that's how's spelled 😅). I remember in the campaign there was the time they adventured with Terry but there was also a 1 year gap after bards lament. With Vekna around the corner and no guarantee of a 5th season they might want to wrap it soon.
i appreciate that you made this despite the similarities being slim to none, a lot of people have wondered why it was changed and there are also a great many people that didn't even know something *was* changed, so it's cool having this out there
I get that they tried to honor it and it didn't work out, but even if that was the final season, I would be impressed that they made that ballsy choice with the proper setup involved. In the end though, these are two different Scanlan's from what i can see. I hope they manage to honor it in season 4 like they alluded to, I think that would be awesome!
@@smashbrandiscootch719 i can see something as simple as holding up a facade while his daughter is there but is secretly pissed off of the group for what they did. i think many of us in real life have experienced that... just seething at someone but acting like everything's fine until you have a moment to really let them know how you feel at the right time.
I feel like the show is sort of a what-if type scenario if Pike had been there in the actual game. No blame on Ashley or Pike, but the show does a fantastic job of showing how Pike being present and helpful to Scanlan during that time really changed his outlook. No pudding nightdress wake-up (a prank that just had poor timing in the liveplay show), just love from Pike and Kaylee. Scanlan also didnt "die" like Percy did, so that's also quite different.
I mean obviously its sad that we dont get that classic bards lament.
But i do think as a story beat it does fit better, and it also lets Scanlan leave Pyke with a goodbye this time.
now that i finally know what the Bard's Lament was all about (tbh i was waiting to see this video, i knew it's gonna come up after the season 3 ending) i think it still can be achieved in season 4, perhaps not as dramatic or impactful as it could've been in the end of S3, but still a pretty strong scene establishing that no, Scanlan is not going back, he's finally at peace and his time adventuring is over. making a room for... someone new, if you know what i mean ;)
Nah, They have much better material than this that will utterly destroy everyone's emotions for s4 end, and this is assuming we even get a 5th season.
@@TPBurrow like the death Knights?
@@TPBurrow yeah, i think that season 4 will be the final one, so if they have any big guns left, they'll probably use them somewhere in this season and then focus more on Mighty Nein and making preps for Bells Hells TV show, which i think is a guarantee at this point
I don't think they'll make room for a new character instead of Scanlan, especially if S4 is the last (I really hope not because I love Vox!!!).
It would confuse everyone who hasn't watched the campaigns and moreover, Scanlan has still things going on. He may have solved his relationship with his daughter, but he must improve his relationship with VM and understand that the group, after all, is his family... There is also his romance with Pike, his friendship with Grog which is put to the test, the Counterspell scene is too important to be cut. In my opinion, even more important than the Lament.
This is not that moment. If anything, they are saving it. They said they want to do it Justice. So maybe they still will. I refuse to accept that this is the alternative. Its too important and Iconic and is a HUUUUUUGGGGEEEEEEEE part of his character the development of them team.
How is it important if the show can go on without it?
I hope they still rework this moment in some way down the line like Sam alluded to bc by the end of season 3 it still doesn’t feel like any of the personal issues Scanlan might have with the group get resolved. I don’t think there needs to be the “what’s my mothers name?” moment or even a big blow up, from a narrative perspective I understand why they cut it, I just think Scanlan being more upfront about his issues to the group and having him acknowledged in return would be beneficial, bc every time he’s clearly having a crisis the group as a collective have little to no care or acknowledgment of it despite the fact that everyone else has climaxes involving the group looking out for them. But here Scanlan addressing that he didn’t even like who he was with Vox Machina is quickly softened by him going “I don’t wanna bring down the room” and we move on.
Like I think that’s why I don’t fully understand the perspective that it’s different bc “they were nicer in this adaptation” when only Pike ever bothers checking in on him and he’s the only character where there’s no group effort behind his struggles. Which I’d understand more if he was still portrayed as the same exact careless comic relief persona from most of season 1 but we’ve also now seen him give Vax the advice that made him confront the Raven Queen, kill a dragon bc he believed in Vax, help Pike and Grog heal/get back to health, create individual rooms catered to everyone’s interests in his chateau, blame himself for Percy’s death and apologize to Vex for it, etc. He’s gotten so much development over the show so it’s weird to now be 3 seasons in and have it STILL feel like the group barely even know him.
Ya people who say they are nicer this time don't really see everything. I can pull up a lot of times where they took scanlan as a joke or attacked him.
Scanbow people thinking he was useless on his own and would not be able to handle a distraction without help, vax calling him a coward for not wanting to fight the dragon, his break down about his daughter during diner and only like went to comfort him, when he got drunk with his daughter and broke down Infront of everyone and vex says no one cares cuz Percy. He then proceeded to save Percy and still no one checked in to see if he was ok.
This is just off the top of my head and there's prob a lot more I can't think of ATM because it's been a while since I watched.
@ Exactly, the only thing omitted was the group pulling the prank on him bc of the changed story beats, aside from that they still include the group having a very dismissive attitude towards him. Even towards the end he’s literally in a coma and over half the group leaves/doesn’t care, then he comes back to aid Keyleth and the rest with Raishan and again no one cares or says anything about him getting out of a coma, it’s weird. He’s proven himself to them before so I don’t really understand the point in having them continue to think so little of him if it’s never gonna get addressed.
Logical, sure but still a huge missed opportunity. Probably THE #2 moment of the campaign after, you know.....what's still to come.
It'll be interesting which direction season 4 takes. With VM separate there are some stories of them separated that could be quite interesting Vax & Kiki on the Aramente which means water trial, Vex could do the Grey Hunt, maybe we see Grog vs Kern, Pike's relatives, Scanlan & Kaylee starting their "business" and the big question will we get to see Tary?
Of all the disappointments I had over this season (giving half of Keyleth's character growth to Vax, a very flaccid and meaningless "Fix him", and is Pike having a "you're the chosen one" ala Star Wars arc thrown in?...) this was my biggest let down. I didn't like Scanlan until Bard's Lament. I thought he was just a 2-dimensional frat-boy chasing after girls and drugs. But this moment slapped everyone across the face, myself included. It was an awesome reminder that sometimes it's all just a cover to hide the pain and loneliness a person really feels. It was such an honest moment, and brave choice. That was the moment I started to actually take Sam seriously, as both an actor and a player.
The campaign is full of brave choices. Marisha chose to play Keyleth the way she did even though she got hate from the fandom. Laura chose to take Vex on a journey of forgiveness. Taliesan chose to explore the mindset of a person who created a tool of destruction. And Sam chose to break the group's heart. But the brave choices have gone out the window now that there's money involved. They could have taken a stand and said "If this is how the series ends, so be it! Let Amazon have their Firefly fan backlash! If people want to see what happens next, they can watch the campaign on our streaming platforms!" They have stopped trusting their fans to be able to follow shades of grey in their heroes, and instead have been relying on tried and true tropes that "fix" their mistakes. As someone who was drawn to the complexity of the characters and the story, LoVM is turning into just another animated show that I've seen somewhere before.
Honestly, this season has lead myself (and some of my other Critter friends) to wonder if watching Mighty Nein will be worth it, or will be more of the same "new and improved" watered-down-spoon-fed BS.
Here is the thing, its the Teseus ship all over again, if they change small but significant parts of the story, if they keep pushing to surprise the fans and keep changing the details of all, is this still critical role? Do i still like it? I mean a powerfull episode changin in to a song, a stupid error but a epic one transform into a easteregg. I dont know. Its good, its a very good show, but isnt critical role
I was already finding season 3 a bit disappointing compared to the first two (not bad by any means, just disappointing), but I knew it would redeem itself as it built up to Bard's Lament...and then it didn't. What a waste.
Just like any adaptation there has to be changes to fit the medium and tell a good story. I have loved the show even through the changes from the stream. If i want to relive those moments I listen to the stream.
I feel like Sam constantly downplays Scanlan in the animated series, first with his amazing fight at the noble house in Whitestone and now with how a bard’s lament was handled. I feel it makes Scanlan far less interesting. They also didn’t kill him so that Percy’s death had more weight. I think it’s silly to worry about not getting another season when even if that were the case, the internet exists, it would be extremely easy for anyone to look up what happened in the campaign for an answer.
Wasn't the Bard's Lament the end of the story arc anyway in the campaign? Don't remember exactly.
I wish they had had the guts to give us a version of the Bard's Lament that at least included "You've never done anything for me: what's my mother's name?" and "then be with your daughter; stop treating her like a sacred object, treat her like a daughter!" It seemed like they had been building up to the Bard's Lament since season 2 episode 1. He was even super drunk with spilled wine on his shirt in a S3E3. So I was very surprised that the build up to Scanlan going is own way was just this lame scene at the end where everyone was fine. Felt like they completely didn't need to have Scanlan go off on his own in Ank'Harel & then again to miss the Isle of Glintshore fight when no one in VM was all that shocked or sad about it. All those side stuff that was animated just took time out of the episodes when they could have been focusing on having time to do more faithful adaptations of "VM how do you want to do this" on the Ripley kill.
I can see both sides. But I agree, there was a lot of good build-up that got me hyped. It was a side story, that would suddenly become the next chapter of their adventure. And one would be able to trace the conflict back, growing naturally. And its what happens to a lot if not all great music bands, friends groups and any collective, so it makes their wild relationship way more real in a way.
thats the thing, the fact that it had been built up for so long, even earlier than season 2, in Scanbo they were already doubting his abilities and calling his plans bad jokes
all that kinda not building to any kind of confrontation felt like lighting the fuse and not detonating
As sad as I am with the bards lament on the show, I'm more disappointed with the "fix him" scene. Grog demanding all his magical friends do anything they could to bring him back, because he's just the big dumb tough guy worked so well in the game, I don't see why it couldn't work in show.
I'm okay with changing some things around, but this was one of those moments that NEEDS to be in the show. We already didn't get the proper FIX HIM. If they don't give the 9th level counterspell justice, the show is dead to me.
Table to not screen
I personally love the change the show made, i think it fits this story better.
When the season first ended I was very sad we didn’t get it, just cause the acting was superb and in a way beautiful. But here I am a week(?) later, and I totally get it. It wouldn’t have fit. The show and the campaign just had Vox Machina at different points. Scanlan, though he has a lot of reason to feel animosity and separation, didn’t neatly have the same level of animosity as in the campaign at this point in the story.
The only thing missing really was his death and his promises to his daughter and them desiccating his corpse which where all changed because they decided not to do this story beat. It definitely would have fit and worked fine unfortunately they didn't know they would get a next seasons so it was scrapped so they could have mice tie ups.
@ true. They didn’t want to end the story on such a downer note. However I’m hopeful we’ll still get Bard’s Lament. When Vox Machina reunites in the upcoming s4, Scanlan can make the promise to Kayle, and break it. It won’t lead to a long departure, though. Most likely it will mean Scanlan swooping in at the last second of whatever battle
@@brandanpalmer ya they didint want a sad ending.
While I wanted bards element this season I do feel it would be worse to include it later on then just leaving it out now...
Mainly because they already separated wouldn't make sense to get back together when scanlen leaves again.
Maybe a smaller version of bards lement where scanlen finds his self worth and confronts them about how they treat him but I don't think it would have the same impact as it would have had here.
Wich episod is it?
C1E85 "Bard's Lament"
@@KartonicChannelCoolDude 💛
Honestly, of all the changes they've made this one was my favorite
Worst disappointment ever
Adding my voice as another person who didn’t enjoy Scanlan’s outburst when it happened in the campaign, and is not at all sad to see it absent from season three. (In my opinion it was a big example of not meeting the energy of the other players, and hugely changing the tone of the scene without warning to force a very specific event.)
Honestly, I do believe that if they had laid a proper groundwork over this whole season, they could have made it work, and work much better than it did in the campaign. But they chose not to do that, for the perfectly legitimate reason that they have a story to tell and only so much time to tell it. Sam has been heavily involved in the writing for the whole show, and literally wrote this last episode of the season. Scanlan has and will continue to get his moments to shine, but this particular one just doesn’t fit, at least for now.
The moment fit just fine the group showed through out the whole series that they really don't care about scanlens problems and think he's kind of just a joke. If they would have known they where getting another season then ya it would have fit perfectly unfortunately they didn't and in doing so kind of disrupted on of scanlans biggest story points from the campaign.
The "we're family, but she's my REAL family" thing was kinda an odd way to put it.
As much as people want to say there was no build-up to an actual Bards Lament happening, Scanlans relationship with the team has never been good, even if there was no breaking point of the awful prank.
If he viewed them as actual family he would not say somthing so blunt and dismissive.
Looking at Pike and Grogs reaction to all this, the fact theyre the ones left behind when the others all split, I think those words are going to affect them significantly next season.
Especially Pike going through this new crisis of faith being abandoned by her goddess and now her friends just like Zerxus said.....and thinking about what could have possibly raised the doubt of her life "being better without the Everlight", the only thing I can come up with is that she dosent have a "real" family, the rest of the Trickfoots, because of the religious divide.
Where is my mother's name in the animated series? 😮
Its not there, they cut practically the whole thing and just left the event of him leaving with Kaylie, without any of the emotional weight
Such a shame they decided not to build to Bards Lament. Really big moment not only for Scanlan, but for the rest of Vox Machina. Without it, the show is a lot less interesting.
I disagree, it works better this way
@@connordonlon4103 How? Scanlan not leaving the group and instead completely resolving his issues with Kaylee and the group is far worse. No drama, no change in the character dynamics. Just everybody makes up and is friends again. Boring.
@@connordonlon4103 it would not have worked. As they explained in the video. It was not earned. And part of that is due to having Pike in the group full time. As it is, many non critters were very confused by his dismissal of the group as "not family". If they had done the full bard's lament it might have been cool for us, but for anyone else that hasn't st through several hundred hours of content, it would have felt so out of left field and would have left the season on an annoying and confusing note. The show is not YOUR show, its OUR show, which includes the cast but also people who have never watched a moment of the live play.
But many of Scanlan's issues have not been solved. Maybe he resolved the situation with his daughter, but not with the group. That "you are like family but my daughter is the real family" will be discussed in the next season, especially by Pike and Grog.
@@darkguardian50It didn't feel earned because they wrote the season around it not happening, it could have easily worked.
Pikes presence didnt even stop him from leaving, why would it have stopped from him being angry with the rest of the group?
Obviously there's not time for the _full runtime_ of Bards Lament, we could have had the real emotion of the event before having Pike interrupt
The Bard's Lament was always kind of broken drama - it was strong, but it made zero sense for his character or the situation. I was curious to see if they would do it ... I'm glad they did not.
Zero sense for his character?
You mean the character that died twice, is addicted to drugs, is starting to feel not only useless, but a burden to the party and wakes up humiliated by his own friends?
I'd say lashing out at the party, leaving without a word or becoming suicidal are all appropriate reactions. And the best one for the show is the first one, so that's what Scanlan would do
Idk people who say it made no sense for his character are people who seem to only be looking on surface levels. Scanlen is a joker but when has he ever desecrated his friends corpse and embarrassed them Infront of their daughter and also brought her knowing that he promised he would not die to see his corpse and looking like that.
"Zero sense"? Come on, now...
Scanlan’s character arc was so much better in the show. Sam’s great, but the Lament was such nonsensical soapy melodrama.
Absolutely thrilled they changed it. I know this is an unpopular opinion, but I always found the Bards Lament moment to be like Tiberius level cringe. Just Sam having a bit blow up for the sake of drama. It came out of absolutely nowhere, was ill-founded and feels awkward and uncomfortable. Terrible moment in Campaign 1 that was artfully changed into a beautiful moment in the show. Well done to the Critical Role team and nothing but love for Sam.
It only came out of nowhere when you look at it surface level and don't listen to why he's actually mad. People with this view are just upset that their fav characterrs got put in their place.
I'm so fucking happy that they retconned this part.
Scanlan was an ass here in the campaign. The drama was unnecessary and could have been absolutely avoided. The show done it much better.
Nah they where the asses I would leave my friends to if the desecrated my corpse and went against my wishes and invited my daughter to see me in that light
Good, I hated that scene. It felt so entirely disingenuous on Sam's part to pull that out of nowhere, especially when it so quickly became clear that he was just shelving Scanlan to play another character.
There are zero similarities here. What's the point of this?
I think that's the point.
@@TPBurrow 🤣
The whole show has been bad from the beginning. If I funded this utter shit i'd be so mad with how bad it is. With this and how bad campaign three is looks like Crit role has had it's time in the sun and is now passing into obscurity.
I honestly just don't think it would work in the show. He doesn't end up breaking a promise to his daughter, she doesn't see him dead, and Pike has been checking in on him all season. Him losing his shit saying none of them care wouldn't make sense because it's very clearly not true. For the context of the show I think not including it was the right call
They literally write the show. The context didn't work because they made it not work by writing it the way they did. I don't understand this argument as if their hands were tied and they had no other choice. It's ok to think this was a better way for them to do it, but let's not pretend they had no agency over the way this played out in the show
It's because they decided not to move forward with it. They chopped up scanlens character arc and gave it to everyone else.
There's been multiple times where he was taken as a joke, called a coward, or even told his problems do not mater no one cares. They just didn't throw the last straw to break the camels back basically because they decided not to do it.
Instead it was cut. Scanlens death cut to make Percy's death more impactful, keyleth leaving because no one listens to her also was similar to Scanlens reason in the campaign.
It'd seem lazy if they just went the sad clown route just because people want there to be drama between the characters 😅
I mean there's more then enough examples through out the series that it would not have really came out of no where.
Taking a big plot point from someone kind of takes away from their character as a whole.
Do I still like the show yes but I do think this was kind of a mistake. A mistake that happened because they didn't know if they where getting another session but mistake still non the less
@jamaalgaylord5029 still seems like people are overhyping that moment some. Like when other stories get adapted from a source, if it can still go on fine without a cut part, then it probably wasn't as important as people say
@Axel_Kasai it's kind of important as they had to change a lot of the story to not include it. Can it still be a good story yes but how many changes can you make before you start saying the story is loosely based on campaign one of critical role.
I'm still super excited and want to see more but it definitely took away from the story to not have it which is kind of the point.
Another reason I’m glad I boycotted this show. Another fantastic scanlan moment destroyed due to shit writing adaptions
Your comment is a wild take, but no argument to be had. I really enjoy the show, but I agree that the moments at the table that really mattered seem to be... diminished in the animation. I feel this (Bards Lamaent) is the BIGGEST missed opportunity the entire show has taken so far