Vance knew that as the least-liked candidate in these two tickets, he needed to come across as nice and sane. On the other hand, Walz was too polite, even if he had two critical hits around abortion and Trump's election denial. For us political junkies, this was an underwhelming debate, but for millions of Americans who are not as engaged, this was a decent debate.
@@willashland4597 MAGA voters have been starved for someone who can explain their message without the rhetoric and insults. I'm just glad Vance did that last night.
Not exactly. Walz could have made that point. He could have put a much finer point on how Vance believed XYZ when he wasn't kissing the ring then bought into the MAGA dogma when he wanted power. Each time Vance dodged a question, Walz should have deliberately pointed out how Vance didn't answer the question because Vance is deferring completely to Trump and he knows Trump's policies are weird, insane, and unpopular. Hence why he dodged the question. There's a lot Walz could have done, but it seems to me he was hamstrung by the campaign preppers who wanted him to appear more conciliatory in an effort to win over independents and 'moderate' right wingers.
@@MMORPGdude01 If Walz took the time to point out every one of Vance’s contradictions, he would spend half of this time countering Vance’s lies. It would not come across well if you talk more about how your opponent is a liar than why people should vote for you.
@@majorlazor5058 Never said he should counter every Vance lie or spend half his time doing it. Doesn't take more than 10 seconds to point out, "notice how my opponent didn't actually answer the question". Next go, "looks like my opponent dodged the question again". Next go, "seems my opponent has a clear pattern and intention of not answering the question. You know why...." All it takes is a few quick and simple 10 second jabs over several answers to set up and a 30 second statement to close. As I pointed out, though I think the real problem here is he was coached to appear more civil for the independents and 'moderate' right wingers.
Vance agreed with Walz continuously to be liked. He’s a chameleon. Hes going to align himself with whoever he thinks is best liked in any given moment. Outside the debate, to his mind, that’s trump. In the debate, he was mimicking Walz.
I’m a leftist, I’m a Minnesotan, I *wanted* Walz to win. Unfortunately, he’s not as gifted at debating as he is at making a speech. Vance’s strength here was basically to debate Harris via Walz. I think Walz was trying to debate Vance, really he should’ve been debating Trump via Vance.
"Vance’s strength here was basically to debate Harris via Walz. I think Walz was trying to debate Vance, really he should’ve been debating Trump via Vance." absolutely nails it. It never felt like vance was even talking to walz, he looked like an AI staring at the camera the whole time the way he did
You're saying this as if Walz and Harris are somehow removed from eachother. JD Vance was inherently attacking Walz by attacking Harris. Walz' mistake was trying to remove himself from Kamala's failures, its confusing for the public. How can he not be copiable for what shes done when he has quite literally endorsed her and campaigned for her as her VP elect? Doesnt make sense logically.
@@Gooby69_ that's not how this works. If it is, Dick Cheney would be a Democrat. Endorsement =| I would do everything 100% lock step with that person, but he's her VP. it's just not politically sound to spend any oxygen picking on things he disagrees with his own presidential top of the ticket.
@@zipzzo try explaining that to the average undecided voter. You are overcomplicating it, the average person sees Walz co-opt Kamala and they automatically assumes he is liable for her actions as well. In many ways, they arent wrong. Also saying "thats not how it works" as your opening statement is probably the easiest way to get someone to not listen to you. Have a good one.
Walz needed to come out swinging. WTF was his prep team thinking? Walz ended up doing OK, but he had an opportunity to destroy Vance. In the long run, this debate will not sway the election.
@@Sloimerwell that's your (odd) opinion. Vance didn't answer anything and came off extremely unlikable, where as Walz came off affable and substantive.
Well Vance painted himself in agreement with left wing policies and just blamed Kamala Harris instead of answering any questions. Hard Swinging against a wiffle ball like Vance is still not gonna go far
Vance was scripted but didn't answer the questions asked. Walz came out nervous but he answered honestly and directly. Walz is the winner. I really like him more and more every time i hear from him. Hes a genuinely good man. Id love to see him run for president one day.
He was the calm dad or close uncle so many of us lost to this cult in these past 9 years. If he was mean and aggressive, even if warranted, it would be EXACTLY what we have been dealing with real life. Was he the best, no. But it was refreshing to see Walz wasn't out to get HIM, he is out there to be here for US.
Honestly? Walz saying he misspoke? He is not an honest man. Ask his constituents. Vance was honest and was being fact checked. He answered every question. Confirmation bias is so evident in this post and responses to it.
I don't know why anyone expected him to do better. He's a self proclaimed bad debater and Vance is an absolute slime ball. All things considered he did about as good as one should expect, and VP debates are low impact which should help.
The Republican on the CNN panel calls Vance's performance a 10 precisely because he did a sufficient job at obscuring his ideology and potentially duping unsuspecting people into supporting him. In their world, that's considered a 10 because they're aware that the facts aren't on their side and they can never actually win support with genuinely good policies that help people. Walz is a friendly and affable guy. By constantly comparing himself to Vance, he allows his good vibes to rub off on him and make him seem like a normal person. The opposite isn't true. Walz shouldn't want people to think that he is similar to Vance or MAGA in any way. This is exactly what Vance wanted, and why he had that shit eating grin on his face the whole time. This is why he'd go out of his way to express fake sympathy about the abortion and school shooter stories. When people talk about a smarter Trump appearing one day and being way worse, this is what they're talking about. We should be forever grateful that Kamala's debate didn't end up like this, that Trump is too arrogant and stupid, and she was able to expose MAGA and their "movement" for the lunatics that they are.
How did he obscure his ideology? He was right on brand the whole time. The difference is that he's way better at explaining it than Trump. He was the perfect VP pick.
That a candidate that can't admit his party lost the last election could be considered by some to have won the debate tells a non-American like me all I need to know about the parlous state of US politics.
Anyone who says there not American but pretends anyone except vance won the debate tells me there lieing and they are American and there a dem, I'm not bothered I've seen democrat officials admitting vance won but walz did improve towards the end.
What dont understand and I am am American - is why in debating Healthcare no one brings up the fact that Universal healthcare is insanely successful in other countries. We have to try and free market our way out of everything it’s so frustrating bc there is not a lot we as voters can do besides get a passport and move or hope that at some point enough voters wake up and we get 90 percent support in the issue. As it is only 60 or 50 percent of Americans want universal healthcare- way up from the 90s but nowhere near enough to pressure the politicians to actually do something . Then you have the presidential system and first pass the post voting which weeds out good candidates. The system was set up to favor the rich from the beginning by the founding fathers bc a lot of these guys were rich Virginia plantation owners
One is a chameleon, a shape shifter. The other pretty genuine and perhaps overly polite. Vance opted for Mr. Nice Guy tonight, probably on instruction by Republican strategists which is the thing Trump is incapable of. I don't think the needle has been moved either way by this debate.
@@rubyjeancuyler4051if that's the worst you can come up with for Walz, he must be a pretty good candidate. Also what part of the white guy tacos thing was a lie
One thing neither candidate addressed on the housing problem was the root CAUSE. It is the venture capitalists that manufactured this problem nationwide. They have a monoply on rental homes/apartments and also with buying single family homes; both are out of reach for most people. And they are getting away with it. The question is, are we the people going to demand changes? How long will it take for you to become homeless or know someone who is - most are a paycheck away - eventually it affects everyone!!! Housing should be a basic humane right for everyone.
I am pretty sure Walz mentioned specifically even venture capitalists when it came to housing. He said several times that housing should not be a commodity as people need it to live and thrive in this country.
The root cause is there is not enough supply because local towns don't want to build more apartments because people with homes don't want apartments in their neighborhoods. That's 90% of the problem.
I didn't watch the debate. I just checked the headlines in the morning. Every headline was about Tiananmen Square and how Tim Walz made some false claims. I wonder if the headlines will now get back to all the damage and violence and fear that JD Vance's lies about Haitian immigrants has caused. Probably not
I feel like all Walz had to do, aside from drilling home the popular policy positions, was respond to every falsehood that dribbled out of Vance's despicable mouth by continuously coming up with different ways of saying, "...And once again, just like your pathological candidate, you're lying to the American people. It's clear that your party has lost all credibility," followed by a simple fact-check and this debate would have been an easy victory. Instead, he sat up there and played pattycake with him. Quite disappointing, really.
If JD lied about anything, you can bet Tim would've jumped on it. The problem was that everything coming out of Vance's mouth sounded reasonable. You'd look like an idiot calling him a liar on stage under those circumstances.
I really wish Waltz had been more on the offense. Vance is a slime ball with weak points all over and Waltz should have gone Hokuto Shinken on him. All the times Vance tried to say Kamala has been in charge for 4 years... Waltz should have reminded him a VP doesn't have that much power and ask if JD really understands the job he is applying for.😅 Vance looked like the bag of it he is, but it's probably difficult to perceive for normie people, and non normies have their mind made up.
Genuinely upsetting how correct this take is. I think Walz did well because I saw him respond with policy and make concessions on things I think would actually benefit Americans, like federal funds for daycare choices that aren't classified as businesses. That's a strength. Not a weakness. But you're right when you say he should've called out Vance on his blaming Kamala for her VP "lack of action." Like dude, Congress exists. The house exists. The VP doesn't get to pass executive orders. I was yelling at my TV and hoping Walz would say something and he never did. I still like Walz more, but man Vance was slimy and I feel like everyone is treating him like he was squeaky clean last night.
Vance lied the whole time and sick of corporate media not treating trump/vance at the same level of questioning. Media is always peddling trump and it’s sickening
J.D. Vance getting angry after they called him on saying that the Haitians in Springfield Ohio were illegal aliens was a bit funny. Refusing to say "Climate Change" or admit Trump lost the election was interesting. Trump's economic plan seems to consist of nothing more than tax cuts and tariffs while blaming inflation on illegal aliens (with no evidence to support it).
No evidence you didn't hear him say federal reserve had published the facts and he would put it out and will it's so obvious it's called supply and demand tons immigrants more people less houses prices go up everything is effected by immigration wake up
@@holden6104 There is no serious economist who thinks that illegal immigration drives inflation in any way. Oddly enough it's venture capitalists like Vance who've driven up the housing prices which were the true cause of inflation.
There is no serious economist who thinks that illegal immigration drives inflation in any way. Oddly enough it's venture capitalists like Vance who've driven up the housing prices which were the true cause of inflation.
Mehdi Hasan is a dick, and nobody likes him. Even if he's right and technically good at debating, there's more that goes into these debates. You want to appear likable.
To answer Matt's question, the voter demographic Kamala imagines she is pusuing is essentially modeled on the donor class she knows: affluent professionals with NY Times op-ed page opinions. So both he and Emma are correct in analyzing her motives for the centrist direction of September.
Remember the time Vance said that Trump would veto a national abortion ban? That was funny. Republicans just say whatever they want, nobody gives a fck. I find it hard to believe that any actual voter is still undecided between the two. The question is going to be, can we get younger voters and left leaning people to vote for Harris in the election instead of voting third party or not at all. These debate performances never hurt the Republicans as evidenced by Trump's recent debacle.
He lied the whole debate. Most of us knows Vance doesn’t have any conviction and that he actually despises Trump. What you felt as a sense is also well documented and backed with video evidence and written record.
Idk what some ppl saw but I think Tim Walz won in my opinion. He did bad at first, the nervousness was so noticeable & he had some clunkers but mid way he was edging out Vance & by the end won the decade. JD Vance for his part did good & is a skilled politician.
Yeah, those first few minutes I was having Biden-debate flashbacks but thankfully it was nowhere near that bad and then towards the end he really rebounded.
Same here bro. It's way more entertaining than any TV show with almost one crazy happening a day and twists out of nowhere. The world wide stakes make it even more engaging.
The US election’s affect on the world at large is worthy of investment, but our ability to create investment out of its entertainment factor is, to me, a sad and grave reflection of our country’s ethics
We are tired of being the world’s reality show. We’re embarrassed and scared. We’ve lost friends and family members to Maga. 😭 We’re tired of being so invested in this election right after being hyper-invested in the last, and we’re tired of hearing about something even more unbelievable with each day. We just have to stay up long enough to make sure this mf never gets back in that office. I wanna sleep all of December
Also, I feel Kamala is losing freshness by giving almost the exact same speech every single time. Yes, she's getting extremely fluent at it, but I feel she should incorporate more new elements and react more (and much much more forcefully) to the latest developments.
The problem was, every time the past was brought up, Walz had to contend with the past 4 years of Biden. He had a tough job last night, which Vance acknowledged.
Vance spent the whole night dodging questions and blaming immigrants. Walz spent the whole night trying to avoid being viewed as hostile and divisive. The campaign clearly hamstrung Walz in an attempt to appeal to 'moderate' right wing voters. It's a dumb strategy and a missed opportunity. They should have let Walz go on the offensive to make clear distinctions and contrasts. Let him drop some zingers about how weird it is that Vance blames every issue on immigrants.
I don’t know if I agree. This is a VP debate. It’s not going to push the needle much on convincing new voters. It can only hurt you if you start offending potential voters, like how Palin tanked McCain’s campaign by coming across as the lunatic she is in her failed VP debate.
IMO, way too much relevance is applied to a 90 minute TV debate where both contestants are prepped in advance when both have plenty of history that is absolutely relevant and much more truthful regarding who they are, what they do, how they do it, etc. I trust the known history, not the commercial. That's why I voted solid blue yesterday.
The problem is you're an informed voter. TV debates aren't meant for you. TV debates are for the uninformed voter who is too apathetic, lazy, 'busy', and/or stupid to get informed. We're talking the 'non-political' independents who couldn't recount half of the issues discussed in the debate, let alone the candidates' answers, immediately after the debate was over, even if their life depended on it, because they don't actually care about the issues. These are the in one ear, out the other folk who operate primarily on vibes and showmanship. The quintessential "who would I rather have a beer with" crowd.
@@MMORPGdude01 Your "who would I rather have a beer with crowd" statement nailed it down. Such shallow and simple minded crap, which most of what is on American television is.
The best part of the debate, to me, was when Vance got mad at the commentators for fact-checking him and said, verbatim, "The rules said that you wouldn't fact-check me" and then he got all pouty.
I really don't want executives who are "nice guys" when dealing with fascists. I know Dem strategists and most voters probably don't see things that way, but ffs, at least remind people who Vance is and what he advocates for regularly.
I think in the Harris Trump debate it ended as her as cool calm collected while Trump was old man yelling at cloud. In Walz Vance debate, Vance came off as cool and calm. I think if Walz called Vance on every lie he might have been seen as the more angry one, even if his refutation was right. The Right would have spun Walz as the new old man yelling at clouds if he got too aggressive, even if he was in the right. But hey, maybe Walz was going for some kind of reverse psychology, but I know that's reaching.
I disagree with the assessment that Tim needed to be an attack dog. I think he most countered points with good responses but if you are going to paint your candidacy as one of unity you can’t be constantly attacking at the rights level. Democrats are already held to a higher standard of decency because republicans lack any and let’s be real if this was the debate you needed to decide you got kicked in head too many times.
That's why we've been having our asses handed to us every election by these disgusting, conservative hypocrites! I'm really sick and tired of Democrats worrying about what conservative media is going to say. It's effing ridiculous.
@@tonydit6097yeah everyone knows working people can just take time off with the great time off policies the US has (particularly red states who are more likely to have the bans) anytime they want, they have money saved up for emergencies, they have easy access to transportation, etc. Just travel… right
@@tonydit6097 Just fly to another country on your private jet. Be born to rich parents. Try harder to be male. Actually become a transman. Trump loves transmen!
Top two overwhelming issues for voters this go around were illegal immigration and the economy. Vance would have failed had he not read the populace's concerns and hammer on them like he did.
@4:58: "What can you do with this information? Whether or not it's true is not what matters." Did anybody else hear this and why does it sound like Tim Pool breaking in to comment on The Majority Report?
24 hour news has to justify its existence by talking about it, but unless Vance or Walz verbally crapped their pants on stage, none of this mattered. Nobody cares about the VP debate.
The campaign and the left need to make a hard shift into the Project 2025, Curtis Yarvin, Peter Theil, Elon Musk, Leonard Leo, Opus Dei monarchy angle. It's being discussed way out here in the woods here in texas so it's starting to get traction.
Where was the Walz who coined “republican are just weird.” Where was the Walz talking about his record in Minnesota? Where was the left of Harris governor who enacted free breakfast and lunch in public schools?
idk as a non american i liked walz better. i do know a fair bit about vance's lies, and i hope someone who's an american watching the debate knows as much as me. vance just looks evil
I think Walz should have assumed JV was going to do what Trump was supposed to do. Which he did, and mostly successfully. He came off as normal and decent.
JD accomplished two things last night. First, he shed his media rep as a crazy person. Second, he delivered the MAGA message to the American public in a reasoned and articulate manner. I don't care what you think, this debate had an impact for those two reasons alone.
Just a reminder for everyone who thinks they were better off 4 years ago that we were using refrigerator trucks as morgues because so many people were dying.
As a Senior, I would be much happier with dems IF they would start offering to help us INCREASE SOCIAL SECURITY since we are in poverty ON Social Security! Harris never offers us ANY HOPE IF HELP! She only wants to help Young first time homebuyers & people having babies!!
I'm convinced more than ever that, whatever the outcome of this election, JD Vance is the future of the Republican Party. He IS the smarter, more polished, more "respectable" version of Trump that we feared would come after him. It's fascism with an Ivy League patina. Hearing my blue-collar Trumpist coworkers praise him after the debate all but cemented that for me.
I couldn’t finish watching it. I was hoping he would have came out punching or with some energy he was not upbeat like his rallies. Whoever was training him. That person should be demoted.
Oh, you mean new wars neocon Republican, Cheney, the guy you called Hitler a couple years ago, and now somehow he’s on your side? How’s that gonna play?
Spot on with your assessment. Very frustrating listening to Walz respond to various Vance lies on policy with, well, we agree on things. If you agree and you're just going to be much of the same then people are given permission to vote against Harris who want to vote against her anyway because she's a woman and black. Not a good strategy or performance. Very disappointing.
Like I said on another video jd did good at deflecting, lying and avoiding actual answers, walz did well with facts. Walz looks a bit flustered and nervous but jd looks like an arrogant typical politician. I believe your right tho, its a wash, won't effect the vote at all, really. I think walz did well but would have been great if he attacked and wasn't as nice a few times. Its not that one overwhelmingly won, it's that jd was shown in a normal light, which he isnt..
Vance knew that as the least-liked candidate in these two tickets, he needed to come across as nice and sane. On the other hand, Walz was too polite, even if he had two critical hits around abortion and Trump's election denial. For us political junkies, this was an underwhelming debate, but for millions of Americans who are not as engaged, this was a decent debate.
Thank you
I am a political junkie and thought this debate was critical. MAGA needed a reasonable messenger and JD was absolutely that last night.
I agree, I think Walz underperformed and Vance's performance will only help the MAGA crowd
@@willashland4597 MAGA voters have been starved for someone who can explain their message without the rhetoric and insults. I'm just glad Vance did that last night.
TO be fair, it's pretty challenging trying to debate someone who believes in absolutely nothing.
Not exactly. Walz could have made that point. He could have put a much finer point on how Vance believed XYZ when he wasn't kissing the ring then bought into the MAGA dogma when he wanted power.
Each time Vance dodged a question, Walz should have deliberately pointed out how Vance didn't answer the question because Vance is deferring completely to Trump and he knows Trump's policies are weird, insane, and unpopular. Hence why he dodged the question.
There's a lot Walz could have done, but it seems to me he was hamstrung by the campaign preppers who wanted him to appear more conciliatory in an effort to win over independents and 'moderate' right wingers.
@@MMORPGdude01 If Walz took the time to point out every one of Vance’s contradictions, he would spend half of this time countering Vance’s lies. It would not come across well if you talk more about how your opponent is a liar than why people should vote for you.
@@majorlazor5058 Never said he should counter every Vance lie or spend half his time doing it.
Doesn't take more than 10 seconds to point out, "notice how my opponent didn't actually answer the question". Next go, "looks like my opponent dodged the question again". Next go, "seems my opponent has a clear pattern and intention of not answering the question. You know why...."
All it takes is a few quick and simple 10 second jabs over several answers to set up and a 30 second statement to close.
As I pointed out, though I think the real problem here is he was coached to appear more civil for the independents and 'moderate' right wingers.
To be fair, That’s not being fair
Vance believes one thing, that he can blame immigrants for everything.
Vance agreed with Walz continuously to be liked.
He’s a chameleon. Hes going to align himself with whoever he thinks is best liked in any given moment.
Outside the debate, to his mind, that’s trump. In the debate, he was mimicking Walz.
He said,
I agree with Walz, BUT…
Then nothing agreed,
Thus nullifying the actual agreement, while keeping the good will of the people for agreeing.
Kamala is the chameleon.
I’m a leftist, I’m a Minnesotan, I *wanted* Walz to win.
Unfortunately, he’s not as gifted at debating as he is at making a speech. Vance’s strength here was basically to debate Harris via Walz. I think Walz was trying to debate Vance, really he should’ve been debating Trump via Vance.
"Vance’s strength here was basically to debate Harris via Walz. I think Walz was trying to debate Vance, really he should’ve been debating Trump via Vance." absolutely nails it. It never felt like vance was even talking to walz, he looked like an AI staring at the camera the whole time the way he did
You're saying this as if Walz and Harris are somehow removed from eachother. JD Vance was inherently attacking Walz by attacking Harris. Walz' mistake was trying to remove himself from Kamala's failures, its confusing for the public. How can he not be copiable for what shes done when he has quite literally endorsed her and campaigned for her as her VP elect? Doesnt make sense logically.
@@Gooby69_ that's not how this works.
If it is, Dick Cheney would be a Democrat.
Endorsement =| I would do everything 100% lock step with that person, but he's her VP. it's just not politically sound to spend any oxygen picking on things he disagrees with his own presidential top of the ticket.
@@zipzzo try explaining that to the average undecided voter. You are overcomplicating it, the average person sees Walz co-opt Kamala and they automatically assumes he is liable for her actions as well. In many ways, they arent wrong. Also saying "thats not how it works" as your opening statement is probably the easiest way to get someone to not listen to you. Have a good one.
Quite a level of cope.
Walz needed to come out swinging. WTF was his prep team thinking? Walz ended up doing OK, but he had an opportunity to destroy Vance. In the long run, this debate will not sway the election.
He’s too nice, not a great debater and sometimes gets flustered.
I dont know why everyone on the left was epxecting tim waltz to do great, he literally told kamala before she picked him that hes not a good debater
@@Sloimerwell that's your (odd) opinion. Vance didn't answer anything and came off extremely unlikable, where as Walz came off affable and substantive.
Well Vance painted himself in agreement with left wing policies and just blamed Kamala Harris instead of answering any questions. Hard Swinging against a wiffle ball like Vance is still not gonna go far
Vance put on a masterclass future president 2028 for sure
Vance was scripted but didn't answer the questions asked. Walz came out nervous but he answered honestly and directly. Walz is the winner. I really like him more and more every time i hear from him. Hes a genuinely good man. Id love to see him run for president one day.
The quick polls seem to agree with you. Walz came off more likeable
He was the calm dad or close uncle so many of us lost to this cult in these past 9 years. If he was mean and aggressive, even if warranted, it would be EXACTLY what we have been dealing with real life.
Was he the best, no. But it was refreshing to see Walz wasn't out to get HIM, he is out there to be here for US.
Lol😂😂😂😂 delusional
Honestly? Walz saying he misspoke? He is not an honest man. Ask his constituents. Vance was honest and was being fact checked. He answered every question. Confirmation bias is so evident in this post and responses to it.
What questions didn't he answer? I think you meant Waltz who dodged at least 4 or 5... one being 'would there be a limit on abotion terms?'
I’m so disappointed to Walz’s performance honestly
I don't know why anyone expected him to do better. He's a self proclaimed bad debater and Vance is an absolute slime ball.
All things considered he did about as good as one should expect, and VP debates are low impact which should help.
The Republican on the CNN panel calls Vance's performance a 10 precisely because he did a sufficient job at obscuring his ideology and potentially duping unsuspecting people into supporting him. In their world, that's considered a 10 because they're aware that the facts aren't on their side and they can never actually win support with genuinely good policies that help people.
Walz is a friendly and affable guy. By constantly comparing himself to Vance, he allows his good vibes to rub off on him and make him seem like a normal person. The opposite isn't true. Walz shouldn't want people to think that he is similar to Vance or MAGA in any way. This is exactly what Vance wanted, and why he had that shit eating grin on his face the whole time. This is why he'd go out of his way to express fake sympathy about the abortion and school shooter stories.
When people talk about a smarter Trump appearing one day and being way worse, this is what they're talking about. We should be forever grateful that Kamala's debate didn't end up like this, that Trump is too arrogant and stupid, and she was able to expose MAGA and their "movement" for the lunatics that they are.
How did he obscure his ideology? He was right on brand the whole time. The difference is that he's way better at explaining it than Trump. He was the perfect VP pick.
That a candidate that can't admit his party lost the last election could be considered by some to have won the debate tells a non-American like me all I need to know about the parlous state of US politics.
Anyone who says there not American but pretends anyone except vance won the debate tells me there lieing and they are American and there a dem, I'm not bothered I've seen democrat officials admitting vance won but walz did improve towards the end.
In a country with 300 plus million voters you will have a lot of dumbass people voting.
What dont understand and I am am American - is why in debating Healthcare no one brings up the fact that Universal healthcare is insanely successful in other countries. We have to try and free market our way out of everything it’s so frustrating bc there is not a lot we as voters can do besides get a passport and move or hope that at some point enough voters wake up and we get 90 percent support in the issue. As it is only 60 or 50 percent of Americans want universal healthcare- way up from the 90s but nowhere near enough to pressure the politicians to actually do something . Then you have the presidential system and first pass the post voting which weeds out good candidates. The system was set up to favor the rich from the beginning by the founding fathers bc a lot of these guys were rich Virginia plantation owners
One is a chameleon, a shape shifter. The other pretty genuine and perhaps overly polite. Vance opted for Mr. Nice Guy tonight, probably on instruction by Republican strategists which is the thing Trump is incapable of. I don't think the needle has been moved either way by this debate.
Didn’t Walz win a spicy cook off after lying about white guy twcos?
@@rubyjeancuyler4051what lie?
@@rubyjeancuyler4051 _"...lying about white guy tacos?"_ Nah, you're just painfully stupid. Get over it.
@@rubyjeancuyler4051What's the lie?
@@rubyjeancuyler4051if that's the worst you can come up with for Walz, he must be a pretty good candidate. Also what part of the white guy tacos thing was a lie
One thing neither candidate addressed on the housing problem was the root CAUSE. It is the venture capitalists that manufactured this problem nationwide. They have a monoply on rental homes/apartments and also with buying single family homes; both are out of reach for most people. And they are getting away with it. The question is, are we the people going to demand changes? How long will it take for you to become homeless or know someone who is - most are a paycheck away - eventually it affects everyone!!! Housing should be a basic humane right for everyone.
I am pretty sure Walz mentioned specifically even venture capitalists when it came to housing. He said several times that housing should not be a commodity as people need it to live and thrive in this country.
Housing is not a human right. Everyone knows that human rights aren’t real in the west instead they are used politically to embolden an electorate
The root cause is there is not enough supply because local towns don't want to build more apartments because people with homes don't want apartments in their neighborhoods. That's 90% of the problem.
Venture capitalists do not have a monopoly on rental housing, that's absurd.
did we watch the same thing? waltz very much so addressed that lol
I didn't watch the debate. I just checked the headlines in the morning. Every headline was about Tiananmen Square and how Tim Walz made some false claims.
I wonder if the headlines will now get back to all the damage and violence and fear that JD Vance's lies about Haitian immigrants has caused. Probably not
WTF when he called himself a knucklehead I wanted to shake whoever prepared him. Still love him but he let a creep play him.
Agreed, why would refer to yourself as a knucklehead lol he seemed too small for the moment
I feel like all Walz had to do, aside from drilling home the popular policy positions, was respond to every falsehood that dribbled out of Vance's despicable mouth by continuously coming up with different ways of saying, "...And once again, just like your pathological candidate, you're lying to the American people. It's clear that your party has lost all credibility," followed by a simple fact-check and this debate would have been an easy victory. Instead, he sat up there and played pattycake with him. Quite disappointing, really.
If JD lied about anything, you can bet Tim would've jumped on it. The problem was that everything coming out of Vance's mouth sounded reasonable. You'd look like an idiot calling him a liar on stage under those circumstances.
Weasle boy used his weaslejitsu to make walz be nice to him. "Im so sorry your kid saw a shooting" "we both agree on the solutions"
A night show might be a good idea every once and while because your numbers are great.
Yeah but they might just be up because of the debate
As someone living in Europe I agree
I really wish Waltz had been more on the offense. Vance is a slime ball with weak points all over and Waltz should have gone Hokuto Shinken on him.
All the times Vance tried to say Kamala has been in charge for 4 years... Waltz should have reminded him a VP doesn't have that much power and ask if JD really understands the job he is applying for.😅
Vance looked like the bag of it he is, but it's probably difficult to perceive for normie people, and non normies have their mind made up.
Genuinely upsetting how correct this take is. I think Walz did well because I saw him respond with policy and make concessions on things I think would actually benefit Americans, like federal funds for daycare choices that aren't classified as businesses.
That's a strength. Not a weakness.
But you're right when you say he should've called out Vance on his blaming Kamala for her VP "lack of action." Like dude, Congress exists. The house exists. The VP doesn't get to pass executive orders. I was yelling at my TV and hoping Walz would say something and he never did. I still like Walz more, but man Vance was slimy and I feel like everyone is treating him like he was squeaky clean last night.
Vance lied the whole time and sick of corporate media not treating trump/vance at the same level of questioning. Media is always peddling trump and it’s sickening
I would pay to NOT have to have a beer with JD
CNN is hilarious. If you watched Vance order a drink 5 different times I'm sure 80% of the time it would be wine. Walz definitely drinks beer.
I think he would pay not to have a beer with a weak leftist like you
That republican propagandist is not CNN. They give him a platform so sane people know what the lunatics are spinning.
J.D. Vance getting angry after they called him on saying that the Haitians in Springfield Ohio were illegal aliens was a bit funny. Refusing to say "Climate Change" or admit Trump lost the election was interesting. Trump's economic plan seems to consist of nothing more than tax cuts and tariffs while blaming inflation on illegal aliens (with no evidence to support it).
No evidence you didn't hear him say federal reserve had published the facts and he would put it out and will it's so obvious it's called supply and demand tons immigrants more people less houses prices go up everything is effected by immigration wake up
You tighten the border and bring manufacturing jobs back, and many of our economic troubles will be solved. I think many Americans agree with that.
@@holden6104 There is no serious economist who thinks that illegal immigration drives inflation in any way. Oddly enough it's venture capitalists like Vance who've driven up the housing prices which were the true cause of inflation.
There is no serious economist who thinks that illegal immigration drives inflation in any way. Oddly enough it's venture capitalists like Vance who've driven up the housing prices which were the true cause of inflation.
@@holden6104 There is no serious economist who thinks that illegal immigration drives inflation in any way.
Too bad Walz didnt get coached by Mehdi Hassan!!
Mehdi Hasan is a dick, and nobody likes him. Even if he's right and technically good at debating, there's more that goes into these debates. You want to appear likable.
To answer Matt's question, the voter demographic Kamala imagines she is pusuing is essentially modeled on the donor class she knows: affluent professionals with NY Times op-ed page opinions. So both he and Emma are correct in analyzing her motives for the centrist direction of September.
Its not working. Republicans will always vote party over country every single time. She is just chasing the wind.
Waltz should have kept asking if each story was more like the cats and dogs or like the cat ladies?
God damn it, please drop the civility BS Walz should have been more aggressive in the debate.
They said I agree a lot. Tim did not get aggressive enough and hit his record. JD washed Trumpism. With that said it was 50/50.
I got the sense that most of what Vance said was not spoken out of any conviction and doesn't represent his boss's views.
Remember the time Vance said that Trump would veto a national abortion ban? That was funny.
Republicans just say whatever they want, nobody gives a fck.
I find it hard to believe that any actual voter is still undecided between the two.
The question is going to be, can we get younger voters and left leaning people to vote for Harris in the election instead of voting third party or not at all.
These debate performances never hurt the Republicans as evidenced by Trump's recent debacle.
He lied the whole debate. Most of us knows Vance doesn’t have any conviction and that he actually despises Trump. What you felt as a sense is also well documented and backed with video evidence and written record.
Idk what some ppl saw but I think Tim Walz won in my opinion. He did bad at first, the nervousness was so noticeable & he had some clunkers but mid way he was edging out Vance & by the end won the decade. JD Vance for his part did good & is a skilled politician.
Yeah, those first few minutes I was having Biden-debate flashbacks but thankfully it was nowhere near that bad and then towards the end he really rebounded.
Only the most superficial group of people would believe anything that Vance says. He hid his evilness with his slickness.
@@SuperBookdragon obviously I didn’t believe a word Vance said , I’m pointing out he’s skilled politician. That doesn’t endorse his character
I'm not even american but I'm super invested in this election
Unfortunately it has grave impacts on many, many parts of the world. 😞
Same here bro. It's way more entertaining than any TV show with almost one crazy happening a day and twists out of nowhere. The world wide stakes make it even more engaging.
The US election’s affect on the world at large is worthy of investment, but our ability to create investment out of its entertainment factor is, to me, a sad and grave reflection of our country’s ethics
We are tired of being the world’s reality show. We’re embarrassed and scared. We’ve lost friends and family members to Maga. 😭 We’re tired of being so invested in this election right after being hyper-invested in the last, and we’re tired of hearing about something even more unbelievable with each day. We just have to stay up long enough to make sure this mf never gets back in that office. I wanna sleep all of December
What country are you from?
My internal organs hurt listening to this with all do respect
Also, I feel Kamala is losing freshness by giving almost the exact same speech every single time. Yes, she's getting extremely fluent at it, but I feel she should incorporate more new elements and react more (and much much more forcefully) to the latest developments.
She has nothing else that's why. Her actual policy platform is laughable, especially on the economy.
Great example of MR's seamless blend of political analysis media criticism.
Vance got away with murder lol. Walz absolutely needed to hold his feet to the fire about past policy / comments, but almost never did.
The problem was, every time the past was brought up, Walz had to contend with the past 4 years of Biden. He had a tough job last night, which Vance acknowledged.
Good point. Walz had to do a two- step: defense/offense.
So much for Tim Walz promise " can't wait to debate the guy" 😮😮😮
i thought about that the whole debate. he seemed nervous af and he wasnt confrontational at all
Vance actually came across as somewhat normal and Walz never called him out on his previous statements. So Vance won that one.
The bar is that low for you, huh? "Christ have mercy."
Van Jones: Tonight JD Vance became the President of the United States
Yuck!
@@Sloimer no, but Van Jones is faulty
Lol
In the Bay Area, where we know him, he's Car Smith.
Van Jones has the intellectual insight of a nematode
And the Oscar goes to JD Vance
Vance spent the whole night dodging questions and blaming immigrants. Walz spent the whole night trying to avoid being viewed as hostile and divisive.
The campaign clearly hamstrung Walz in an attempt to appeal to 'moderate' right wing voters. It's a dumb strategy and a missed opportunity.
They should have let Walz go on the offensive to make clear distinctions and contrasts. Let him drop some zingers about how weird it is that Vance blames every issue on immigrants.
I don’t know if I agree. This is a VP debate. It’s not going to push the needle much on convincing new voters. It can only hurt you if you start offending potential voters, like how Palin tanked McCain’s campaign by coming across as the lunatic she is in her failed VP debate.
Vance presented himself as normal … and that was the plan
And Walz was too gentleman like to be the aggressor.
Exactly, weird shape shifter.
Whining about getting fact-checked is normal? Lol
@@Knight-Bishop Actually, yes. It's what you expect liars to complain about.
@@icin4d I meant in general, not what is normal for a Republican. Lol
IMO, way too much relevance is applied to a 90 minute TV debate where both contestants are prepped in advance when both have plenty of history that is absolutely relevant and much more truthful regarding who they are, what they do, how they do it, etc. I trust the known history, not the commercial. That's why I voted solid blue yesterday.
The problem is you're an informed voter. TV debates aren't meant for you.
TV debates are for the uninformed voter who is too apathetic, lazy, 'busy', and/or stupid to get informed. We're talking the 'non-political' independents who couldn't recount half of the issues discussed in the debate, let alone the candidates' answers, immediately after the debate was over, even if their life depended on it, because they don't actually care about the issues. These are the in one ear, out the other folk who operate primarily on vibes and showmanship. The quintessential "who would I rather have a beer with" crowd.
@@MMORPGdude01 Your "who would I rather have a beer with crowd" statement nailed it down. Such shallow and simple minded crap, which most of what is on American television is.
It’s weird how Vance insults Kamala but loves walz and is super respectful to him. I wonder what’s different about the two?
Don't let Pete Buttigieg prep you or advise you on anything.
Well, he is pretty good at debate and making argument while also being quick-witted.
@@georgeh6856 Pete is awesome in debate, not sure what you mean.
@@themajesticspider-man6116 This is not the pro-Pete channel you are looking for.
@@themajesticspider-man6116 This is not the pro-Pete channel you are looking for.
@@themajesticspider-man6116There's a difference between being good at debating and advising others. It's 2 different skillsets.
The best part of the debate, to me, was when Vance got mad at the commentators for fact-checking him and said, verbatim, "The rules said that you wouldn't fact-check me" and then he got all pouty.
@@tonydit6097 It was kinda funny
@@Sloimer ...The moderator is biased for _checking facts?_ Ask yourself that question. 😂
I couldn’t sit down and have a beer with J.D. Vance without being worried about what he put in it.
Uh oh
I really don't want executives who are "nice guys" when dealing with fascists. I know Dem strategists and most voters probably don't see things that way, but ffs, at least remind people who Vance is and what he advocates for regularly.
it was not bad, walz disappointed, bit he will only be vice anyway
I think in the Harris Trump debate it ended as her as cool calm collected while Trump was old man yelling at cloud. In Walz Vance debate, Vance came off as cool and calm. I think if Walz called Vance on every lie he might have been seen as the more angry one, even if his refutation was right. The Right would have spun Walz as the new old man yelling at clouds if he got too aggressive, even if he was in the right. But hey, maybe Walz was going for some kind of reverse psychology, but I know that's reaching.
I disagree with the assessment that Tim needed to be an attack dog. I think he most countered points with good responses but if you are going to paint your candidacy as one of unity you can’t be constantly attacking at the rights level. Democrats are already held to a higher standard of decency because republicans lack any and let’s be real if this was the debate you needed to decide you got kicked in head too many times.
That's why we've been having our asses handed to us every election by these disgusting, conservative hypocrites!
I'm really sick and tired of Democrats worrying about what conservative media is going to say. It's effing ridiculous.
Muh-muh-muh-muh Margret, buh-buh-buh-but, you said you were weren't going to fact check
Don't take the advise of corporate Democrats ever again.
Great guy walz, just too much of a nice guy in the debate.
Nah he’s a lying scumbag
I wanted Waltz to ask Vance what women who DON’T want to be pregnant in Republican states are suppose to do under Trump regime.
@@tonydit6097you have to be joking. The right literally HATES healthcare access.
@@tonydit6097yeah everyone knows working people can just take time off with the great time off policies the US has (particularly red states who are more likely to have the bans) anytime they want, they have money saved up for emergencies, they have easy access to transportation, etc. Just travel… right
@@tonydit6097 ummm... You know states are trying to make that illegal, right, troll?
Use protection. And the right hates more government not healthcare
@@tonydit6097 Just fly to another country on your private jet. Be born to rich parents. Try harder to be male. Actually become a transman. Trump loves transmen!
Harris better start sitting down for interviews asap.
I can’t wait for that word salad
I think them being civil made it more pleasurable to watch
SHADY VANCE - "Immigrants, Immigrants, Immigrants, something something, drill, baby drill, Christ bless!"
Top two overwhelming issues for voters this go around were illegal immigration and the economy.
Vance would have failed had he not read the populace's concerns and hammer on them like he did.
@@tonydit6097 Shady how? The Trump presidency definitely shady
vance- Kamala Harris-Kamala Harris x10000000.
God be with you-
It was bad walzhad to call out Vance's lies letting it go was a mistake.
“We have more in common than we do differences” is how Walz came off to me. That seems like part of their campaign.
This debate was so refreshing
rest in power brother michael, stub is rarely first, left is best
Yeah that first question was HOLY SHIT
It's about who shows up to vote. Older people show up. Young people could show up, but I would bet on older people showing up.
I’m definitely an older person (70+), and I am voting Harris/Walz
Certainly a lot of older people made up that million+ COVID death toll.
@4:58: "What can you do with this information? Whether or not it's true is not what matters." Did anybody else hear this and why does it sound like Tim Pool breaking in to comment on The Majority Report?
24 hour news has to justify its existence by talking about it, but unless Vance or Walz verbally crapped their pants on stage, none of this mattered. Nobody cares about the VP debate.
I mean, not moving the needle is better than pushing it the opposite direction, I guess. Still, missed opportunities.
Cope harder
At times, it felt like bromance between the two. Nothing changed. Still not voting.
ok- if trump wins- don’t be sorry later.
No criminals in the White House- vote blue
It was like 2 boxers that made a unsaid agreement not to expose each other by punching too hard.
Going for a beer with Vance?! I'd been watching that pint in case there was something fizzy in it, and I end up in the dungeon from hostel
The campaign and the left need to make a hard shift into the Project 2025, Curtis Yarvin, Peter Theil, Elon Musk, Leonard Leo, Opus Dei monarchy angle. It's being discussed way out here in the woods here in texas so it's starting to get traction.
what does a hard shift mean?
if you're talking about what to do after Trump wins, I'm all ears.
@@billyconnelly3568 Every comment you make is apathetic.
@@ApexEater
What? If I were apathetic I wouldn't be commenting.
Do you mean I'm cynical about the course of the Kamala campaign?
Where was the Walz who coined “republican are just weird.”
Where was the Walz talking about his record in Minnesota?
Where was the left of Harris governor who enacted free breakfast and lunch in public schools?
He did cover his record of Governor fairly comprehensively.
@@marthastewartschowchow he was right there on stage, guessing you missed it
Leave it to the democrat NPC's to try to use weird as an insult, no self awareness of how cringe that is
Yeah, and put tampons in the boys bathrooms
He talked about Minnesota a lot, to great affect.
idk as a non american i liked walz better. i do know a fair bit about vance's lies, and i hope someone who's an american watching the debate knows as much as me. vance just looks evil
Stay out of our affairs, communist
Didn’t matter that shady lied the whole time. Deception and deceit
⏱️ Timestamps by TimeSkip ⏱️
00:00:00 - Introduction & Overview
00:01:24 - JD Vance's Campaign Strategy
00:04:10 - Debate Analysis: First Half
00:05:37 - JD Vance's Performance Review
00:13:11 - Campaign Strategy Insights
00:18:15 - Foreign Policy & Election Impact
00:20:00 - Biden's Ideological Continuation
00:21:11 - Media Spin on Debate Performance
00:22:39 - Vance's Debate Strategy Analysis
00:27:39 - Impact of Foreign Policy on Elections
00:34:53 - Voter Sentiment Post-Debate
00:36:12 - Debate Reactions and Expectations
00:40:02 - Lost Drive Between 101 & 5
Link in bio
Walz doesn't have the politics or intellect to frame the fight in a way that makes a fascist takeover less likely.
“You said you’re not gonna fact check” is objectively hilarious. Walz not spending the last out not bringing that up constantly is really why he lost.
I think Walz should have assumed JV was going to do what Trump was supposed to do. Which he did, and mostly successfully. He came off as normal and decent.
Walz dropped the ball. He fell into the trap of being nice that JD set for him.
Maybe he's just nice and can't change it. Whereas Vance.............
Walz is just naturally nice!
Evil people do not deserve niceties that will be taken advantage of.
JD accomplished two things last night. First, he shed his media rep as a crazy person. Second, he delivered the MAGA message to the American public in a reasoned and articulate manner. I don't care what you think, this debate had an impact for those two reasons alone.
Is that what we call lying through his teeth, nowadays? 😂
@@Knight-Bishop keep huffing that copium.
Drinking a beer with you people would be hell on earth
Just a reminder for everyone who thinks they were better off 4 years ago that we were using refrigerator trucks as morgues because so many people were dying.
thanks folks
love you all
For the record, Sam, there have been TWO presidential debates, not just one. The first one is the reason Harris is now the candidate, remember?
As a Senior, I would be much happier with dems IF they would start offering to help us INCREASE SOCIAL SECURITY since we are in poverty ON Social Security! Harris never offers us ANY HOPE IF HELP! She only wants to help Young first time homebuyers & people having babies!!
Vance lied the whole debate.
I'm convinced more than ever that, whatever the outcome of this election, JD Vance is the future of the Republican Party. He IS the smarter, more polished, more "respectable" version of Trump that we feared would come after him. It's fascism with an Ivy League patina. Hearing my blue-collar Trumpist coworkers praise him after the debate all but cemented that for me.
Why would you expect people being interviewed on national TV to bust out laughing over what they saw in the debate? Is that a reasonable expectation?
That’s more hot air than a balloon festival on CNN
Great show slow debate
It’s about political consultants auditioning for a bit of Cabinetry.
I thought Ema would flip the camera like that English reporter lol
Em always looks like she showered at the campground. Sam at the "uhh oh" stage of his hairline. Jokes jokes.. keep up the great work yall.
Walz was not ready for the polite facade.
I don’t think Vance won any people over. He seems so inauthentic that I think most people will see right through him.
We're talking about an electorate where half still support Trump.
I couldn’t finish watching it. I was hoping he would have came out punching or with some energy he was not upbeat like his rallies. Whoever was training him. That person should be demoted.
Why did he mention Cheney?
Dumb debate preppers who clearly wanted him to appeal to independents and 'moderate' right wingers.
Oh, you mean new wars neocon Republican, Cheney, the guy you called Hitler a couple years ago, and now somehow he’s on your side? How’s that gonna play?
....Walz just looked completely out of his league.
You should try listening to content not getting affected by optics. So many people today have lost the ability to listen.
Vance is just Patrick Bateman and I cant unsee it
Video got a like after that have a beer with Vance reaction lol
Spot on with your assessment. Very frustrating listening to Walz respond to various Vance lies on policy with, well, we agree on things. If you agree and you're just going to be much of the same then people are given permission to vote against Harris who want to vote against her anyway because she's a woman and black. Not a good strategy or performance. Very disappointing.
Like I said on another video jd did good at deflecting, lying and avoiding actual answers, walz did well with facts. Walz looks a bit flustered and nervous but jd looks like an arrogant typical politician.
I believe your right tho, its a wash, won't effect the vote at all, really. I think walz did well but would have been great if he attacked and wasn't as nice a few times. Its not that one overwhelmingly won, it's that jd was shown in a normal light, which he isnt..
Vance seemed abnormally normal.