I explain how the classes of #thelegendofvoxmachina are not the same as #criticalrole counterparts. What are your thoughts on this #dungeonsanddragons Poor Presentation
5:38 "Scanlan never uses Bardic Inspiration"..... cut to the fight with Kevdak where he literally starts a Rock Concert to give his friends the sickiest soundtrack for their fight and boost their morale if that aint BARDIC INSPIRATION i dont what is :V
@@matheusfiorelli8829 some others have pointed that out as well. That's something I actually missed / forgot about. I am the fool for missing that. IT WAS SO SICK! That moment and the acid trap in season 1
That and during Scanlan's Fastball Special of throwing Vax at the undead giants, right after Pike made her grand entrance on the battlefield and giving Scanlan himself a morale boost.
Vex can be a Ranger without visible magic. Rangers are not full casters like Druids, or Wizards, so in this particular instance she may not have been able to help open the portal. Also Hunter's Mark could be viewed as something where she simply needs to concentrate to deal the extra damage. There have been a few instances in the show where she is seen holding her shot which could indicate her target has Hunter's Mark. Just because a video game indicates Hunter's Mark with some glowing indicator does not mean this show should too.
@@scottcampbell9515 I do agree with most of the stuff you've said. My video is being picky and snarky on purpose after all. One part I don't agree on is the portal. Kima is definitely a Paladin, which mechanically has the same amount of magic / spell slots as rangers (in DND.) So the fact she was able to help open the portal shows that half-casters can do it. But Vex isn't a spell caster.
@@Just.Westin Kima could be multiclassed in Cleric. We don't know because she's an NPC, and thus the DM can hand wave things to progress the story in a fair way if needed. The Everlight could have also offered assistance to Kima in that moment (which would be a DM inspiration, and also on an NPC thus the hand wavyness of it). ...also Rangers who don't cast spells is not that uncommon. They are still Rangers.
@@Just.Westin For what it is worth, Canonically if we're looking at the original campaign Vex ends up being a multiclassed Ranger/Rogue. Looking back at the show (which is what your video addresses afterall), it's clear they were leaning into this vision long term. Shes clearly setup to have a similar skillset to Vax that is more focused on archery and cooperative tactics (with vax, trinket, and later other characters turning her into the leader role) I support your arguement that she isn't the "wizards of the coast" ranger fully as she does seem to have dropped all spellcasting (Which she did have in the campaign) and we got "some of it" back with her bow being "Exagerrated" in the show (this happened with all vestiges except arguably The Deathwalkers Ward [vax's] which actually just is that crazy.) That being said, ranger is the "Worst" designed class in 5e and many versions of it drop spellcasting in favor of combat manuever type mechanics, wilderness mechanics, or pet mechanics (or some mish-mash of these depending on the homebrew) which it seems like they went for the "combat manuever" approach for Vex in the show. Which... honestly just lines up with her characterization from the campaign better anyway. Unrelated to Vex but to the video: I didn't really think about it but your argument for Pike being turned into a paladin is very compelling. Honestly it's probably what Ashley would have wanted to be if they hadn't been brand new to it all at the time! The way she played Pike was very "Paladin" so it makes sense that she comes across this way. Scanlan is definitely still just a bard. Just because they don't make the "Bardic Inspiration" look "magical" doesn't mean it isnt happening. Not to mention that everyone in the party consistently performs everything better when he is playing music (whether that is fighting or some sort of skill challenges). Example proof: Season 1 when they are stuck in the acid trap. Season 2 when fighting Kevdak + Clan. etc. The list goes on but it is consistent that when the music is playing Vox Machina performs better. This is likely their way of showing "Bardic Inspiration". Also doubles as the shows backtrack so that's a cool way to meta-joke the "music backtrack when things are about to get epic" stigma.
@@scottcampbell9515 , For this animated continuity at least, it seems to some degree, titles like Paladin and Cleric have more to do with their profession and station than strict capabilities, though Clerics seem to still have more uses of their powers than Paladin's either way. Also of note, Kima being able to her powers to help with the rift despite her saying it wasn't her "forte" suggests that despite there being different types of mages, they all can use their powers in more generalized ways not bound by specific effects and structured spells, like lending their energy aid a affect like opening a portal (or closing one, as shown when both Kima and Allura were aiding in closing the Fire Plane rift).
I think a large reason why the show counterparts have different skill sets is to make it easier for the audience to keep track of everything. D&D characters have A LOT of abilities and asking an audience to remember all of them for an entire party would be too much, especially since a lot of them (Inspiration, Action Surge, Second Wind, Hunter's Mark etc) don't have good visual signifiers to let the audience know when they're being used. The show Vox Machina feel more like simplified versions of their respective classes using the most iconic bits. For example, Scanlan has Bigby's Hand, music and some utility/support spells and Pike has Spiritual Weapon, Shield of Faith and healing magic (and Flame Strike and Guiding Bolt sometimes). For the martials, their abilities are mostly turned into superhuman feats, like Vax being super fast while Sneak Attack is him striking at his opponent's weak spots. As for Vex's lack of magic, I think it's mostly because we already have Pike, Scanalan and Keyleth using magic so giving Vex magic on top of that would be a lot to manage (not to mention expensive to animate). Plus a lot of Ranger spells aren't overtly magical like other spellcasters, and the ones that are tend to be nature magic which would make it harder to distinguish from Keyleth's. Fenthras is able to replicate most of the really magical spells like Ensnaring Strike, Flame Arrows and Lightning Arrow anyway. Lastly, Pike is absolutely a Cleric, specifically of the War Domain. They get access to Spiritual Weapon and Shield of Faith (her glowing mace and shield), Flame Strike (she uses that to blast the zombie giant in season 2), their Channel Divinity lets them boost an ally's attack roll (she does this to Vex's arrow to shoot Brimscythe's throat) and Crusader's Mantle (the spell that gives your allies' attacks bonus radiant damage, she casts it on the people of Whitestone to fight the zombie horde). Her not knowing Revivify doesn't mean she's not a Cleric, the show makes it clear that resurrection magic isn't easy and Pike routinely struggles with her faith which is a fair reason for her not being able to cast higher level spells.
@callmev3531 scanlan does plenty of notable stuff. He just doesn't "inspire" since it is a nebulous concept and doesn't translate to non gaming as a resource. For example He soloed that distraction house in whiterun,He destroyed orthanks vessel. He is great but let's the cast shine.
That might me it. Works great when you think about his vestige Mythcarver. It's a god-damn sword and he actually (sometimes) uses it to slice up things
@@Kantilvih Sorry, that was a writing error on my part. I meant to say the only notable feat "akin to the Inspiration effect" that he performs. Besides that, he mostly uses his energy hand (which is just Bigby's Hand), physical illusions, the items he used to Blink, the scroll incantation he used to Polymorph and of course, his crotch lightning.
You’re confusing the job ranger with the dnd class. Lots of people think of characters that would be rouges or fighters in dnd but she specifically is a class that has magic.
@@dean0730 Fairly certain DND didn't come up with the idea of a ranger, but oftentimes in media characters that would suit the role of a ranger are portrayed as so skilled it borders on magic, this is why so many people flavor their ranger spells as non magical
@@danielwolfe1587 They didn't no. But likewise, Rangers being spellcasters isn't a thing that is always true in DnD. Original Ranger was a subclass of Fighter and most of the examples back then weren't magical in nature. Well, they weren't active spellcasters at least.
I know this is a bit of a meme video (Super fun btw! love the chaos) but I do at least want to point out: Vex does have one consistant showing of magic and that is her ability to sense Dragons, its a refrence to the Primeval Awareness feature from the Ranger. Which is better than nothing! Pike is a Cleric (War) for sure..ish. So the show does a good job imo at showing the differences between a Paladin like Kima (and Vax) vs a War Cleric like Pike. Kima (and Vax) specifically uses physical weapons and can empower them with sparks of divine magic whereas Pike and Kashaw are actively summoning divine weapons like morningstars and spears to fight their foes while also being able to summon divine shields or in Pike's case also summon her armor. They can pray directly to their god and bring down massive blasts of radiant magic. They can both heal people, etc. Pike does all of this pretty well. Her not knowing the full scope of what a Cleric can do doesn't stop her from being a Cleric. Where I personally think you could see Pike less as a Cleric and more like a Paladin is in how her powers are getting stopped/bottlenecked by her lack of belief/faith in herself. Clerics generally have to believe in and pray to their Deity, and their Deity will help them within reason- Paladins have an Oath they swear to and when they begin to waver their belief in their Oath they start to lose power. Pike has been struggling with upholding a belief in both The Everlight and most importantly herself, a big part of her current story is that her power comes from her not some Deity or fancy armor, her and conviction to fight. That feels much closer to a Paladin than anything else- down to the fact that she's even healing people with her own blood. Scanlan's a Bard for sure! Bards are all about knowledge/lore gathering so Scanlan learning magic vicariously after using a Scroll or by seeing someone like Delilah cast Silence works fine to fit that image. Bards have to practice and learn their magic, unlike how a Wizard has to understand the complex functions of each part of a spell a Bard can do it via tapping into the Words of Creation or in Scanlans case- sing/perform it through his heart and soul! Though yeah its strange that Scanlan Shorthalt the Legendary Bard of Vox Machina, wielder of the Bardic Artifact Mythcarver, doesn't inspire his friends in the show. Maybe they felt it would be too hard to visualize in the show? They could have it so Scanlan's inspirations look like electricity flowing through a person making them stronger or faster or more reslient, or something like that. However you think the Bless spell would look in animation is kinda how I think Bardic Inspiration would look here.
@@Finalplayer14 this (and many other comments here) are a great show of teaching others via your perspective and thoughts. I made this video cause I think it's funny that some characters could be seen as a class that wasn't theirs in the live streams, and then you (and others) give their view of how they perceived different aspects in different ways. I like your depiction of Pike and Kashaws divine weapons, but you still gave your way of viewing Pike as being more similar to paladins compared to Kashaws. I agree with the primeval awareness that Vex has. I know she has it but I purposefully left that out to fit my narrative. Thank you for your ideas / perception
Scalan is a Lore bard and as a Lore Bard, he spends his inspirations mostly on Cutting Words. I interpret every time he helps someone escape an area spell with Bigby's hand or hinders and distracts an enemy as a use of cutting words. And to be honest, it suits the character more to hinder others than to inspire in my opinion.
Another Piece of Evidence for Pike Being a Paladin: SPOILERS Pike can still use her magic when she very clearly rejects her Goddess during the Thordak fight
Looking at Episode 1 of Season 1, Vex seems to make her arrows glow before firing them during Vox Machina's first encounter with the lightning dragon. Unless she already had a magic item by that point, that seems like magic to it.
@@ecchicharmed I went back and checked. Correct. It seems like she does. Weird. In all other cases I remember her buying magic arrows or being Fenthras. Good find
I'd say Percival is actually a duel class of gunslinger and warlock, then reclassed to gunslinger and artificer; (spoilers) he literally made an unwitting pact with a patron in order to make the pepperbox operable, because he failed to make it work so many times (because he wasn't an artificer) and the patron was the one who made it work properly. Then after they had the fight against the patron, he successfully created a new one (albeit not as good) because he 'leveled up' and reclassed into artificer
@@ServantofBaal very interesting. You make a fun case. I wonder what warlock powers he would have used. Maybe Hex whenever he saw a person on his List?
No mention of the idea about Percy multiclassing into warlock? Even to dismiss it? His lore fit into that, the mask could be the spellcasting focus and that black fog his own magic other than only the demons magic.
Love the pitch on Pike being a paladin, fits super well especially since Pike’s most recent arc feels more paladin-coded to me. For Vex, I still feels ranger to me (the dragon sense is not from an item and feels like primeval awareness (just activated randomly enough to make it pop up at random))
I would argue that both Vex and Pike are ranger and cleric respectively, just not D&D but pathfinder's since both Ashley and Laura claim time and time again how they preferred their old build over the D&D conversion
That's funny since a few minutes ago I was watching the new episode at the gun pirates and thought "It sure would be nice if she used Ranger spells for a change" She even was snuck up on by two dumb pirates on a wooden pier. She is no Fighter/Rogue/Druid = Ranger
5:55 - When he throws Grog in season one he sings a whole ditty first about how he's giving a hand. Usually when he just uses Scanlan's Hand he just says "Scanlan's hand", so you could interpret the extra lines as being the inspiration, which makes sense because then Grog proceeds to cut a giant in two.
@@davidbodor1762 true. It's possible to perceive general lines in battle as bardic inspiration. I didn't think of it like that and assumed it had to be more unique. I'll have to keep an eye out next time I watch the earlier seasons
I always though that Persival was an Warlock and the gun was a spell focus for Eldritch Blast. Before Artificer I used Warlock to make a a Human Pep-Zee Greenbottle warlock Feind/Tome he used a rod as a spell focus and reskined it into a riffle and he had the healer feat claiming it was his healing potions. I would have him drink from a vile and breath fire for his burning hands and his riffle was shooting eldiricth blast. His personality was a cross of the Nutty Professor, Elmer Fude and a western snake oil sellsman. Every time I play him around kids they cant help but laugh.
ok counter to the first bit, kima is a paladin and she says "not my forte but I'll give it a shot" I'm under the impression kima and allura have been working together for longer than vex has with keyleth and it was only through familiarity she had any chance of helping with the rift
That's a good explanation for why kima has magic. You're saying eventually Vex will be at that level. But not yet. Which would justify how they're both half casters.
I think they're actually not D&D classes in the show at all, but classes from Critical Role's own RPG Daggerheart. Pike's abilities in the show for example remind me of what I've read of the Seraph class from Daggerheart.
@@SomeGuyFromAustria very good find. I knew they purposefully don't mention DND abilities or stuff, but I never considered they might be mimicking daggerheart. Nice!
Do you know whats fun. If you are using your pbone to type a comment and the next video autoplays, you comment posts to the next video. Crazy stuff. Could be inconvenient for some people. 🎉
@@derekboman2010 okay. 2 solutions. First is you could pause the video or stop auto play after it's done. But that's super inconvenient So I would instead comment halfway through the video once you know how it'll end. I'm sure that won't ever be annoying?
I feel like Scanlan was a little shortchanged in the show, only using the hand and some illusions. Although bigbys hand was his signature move. Even the songs aren't really getting there and sound autotuned. Other small production could make pop song parodies, that's what Sam shined with
I wouldn't know the exact legal ramifications, but I'm sure they can't blatantly parody a popular song without some form of financial nonsense. But I do agree with the sentiment that Scanlan was simplified a little in terms of fighting / spells. (But his character got a lot of moments with his motives and relationships which was great!)
Mechanically speaking, perhaps these characters don't always fit into their class archetypes, though in regards to this being an animated series specifically inspired by the campaign's story and not the game of Dungeons & Dragons as a whole, characters like Vex could be considered a Ranger specifically in regards to her survival skills, not her possessing them in addition to nature magic, within the context of this continuity, just Kima's profession is that of a Paladin, Scanlan's profession is that of a Bard (come to think of it, I'd imagine to normal people living in this setting, characters like Scanlan would probably be considered simply mages or be mistaken for Sorcerers or Wizards unless they specifically knew how spell casters and magical practitioners worked or about other esoteric phenomena outside of magic like qi, psionics and divinity) and Grog would be considered by most people in civilized areas a Barbarian...because he is one. In general, in some areas, these characters have been limited or simplified in terms of their capabilities (such as Scanlan requiring items to Blink and an incantation he learned from a scroll to Polymorph, while otherwise seeming mostly capable of illusions and his energy appendage constructs inspired by Bigby's Hand) or, alternatively, certain attributes were heightened to be more prominent than others (Pike's shield and morningstar are now just energy constructs she can create, the latter two apparently being inspired by Shield Of Faith and Spiritual Weapon, while she can either create or summon armor from her amulet similar to what she had in astral form, suggesting it's also an energy construct able to fully resemble actual materials).
@@callmev3531 I do know that many changes were made because it's a show. The video is taking it too seriously as if it has to translate 1 to 1 with something. I did like your explanation for Pikes weapons and armor. Good thinking
@@Just.Westin , Thank you. It wasn't my intention to suggest this video took the series too seriously, just presenting observations regarding how the show adapts the power system of the game. Took me a while actually to really notice the armor Pike manifests in Season 2 is the same exact one she has in her astral form and question where it really came from, same with realizing her energy weapons (and by extension, other Clerics in the show like Kashaw) are inspired both by those spells and by her in-game combat equipment, simplified into being constructs she can make. It's one of my favorite details of this show how they adapted these characters abilities and the power system of the game into a show format.
I mean there are a number of moments where it can be argued that scanlan does use bardic inspiration. But even if you want to argue against it, he could just not be using that ability.
Yeah. I was told of many moments in the comments. When he plays guitar in the acid room season 1 or the Thordak fight in season 2 are great examples. The video is a satire joke, I know what I'm saying is silly.
I feel like Trinket not participating in battles is totally on par with the live stream as Laura is super protective of him and either doesn't take Trinket into battle or forgets to use him :D
Vex could be a thief as well, both Thieves and Rangers are stealthy skill monkies but Rangers have innate casting while Thieves use magic tools and tend to scale in proportion to the money and prep time they have access too.
Pike being a paladin might even make sense with her Season 3 "arc". A Cleric would /not/ be able to go with a "maybe the real divine magic was in you all along" arc that didn't end with her being cast away by her god and left powerless.
Rangers magic is more so a Rangers hunting technique. Most of a Rangers 'spells' are either traps or proficient navigation through an environment. Alot of spells a ranger has does have magical properties sure but over all most of their magic is not exactly visible, unless its obvious like Lightning Arrow or Conjure Barrage. Hunters Mark I can more so see hyper focusing onto a targets weak spot to deal the extra damage, I think the mystical marking of a target effect is more so a flavoring thing for players to have fun with; giving a little extra character detail that makes their hunters mark unique.
@@antonioguak647 yes. But Pike doesn't seem accustomed to it. Many reasons can be given for why, I chose to say that it's because she's a Paladin and doesn't get it until higher levels. Very well saw though
@@benceszabo3333 correct. But they wouldn't get the spell as early in their levels. So Pike may not have any experience with revivify where Kashaw does.
oh Scan man is the EASIEST one to figure out.... you are correct, he isn't a bard.... he is a SHITTY bard (but awesome character... nobody hit me please)
they've already mentioned (since the release of season 1) that the decision was made so people that's not familiar with the game would get a better idea of what's the role of each character. Scanlan won't be using much healing, because that's Pike's job. Vex would not be doing ranger's spells because the aesthetic or vibe is more like Keyleth's nature type of spells. otherwise people could consider that they all can do whatever the other character can do...which in a way is almost true in a D&D game but it will make writing harder as you no longer have to rely only in one character to do something specific (like the portal thing)
My video is looking at the characters in the show and determining what class they would be without using the tabletop game as reference. Missed the point of the video but good comment
Clearly Pike uses different types of smites. Scanlan is clearly a commoner with feats. Magic initative, Enteratiner background. He doesn't really have high spells.Scanlan got stripped of his abilities because they realized he was the ultimate support and instead of him being a support they gave everyhing to everyone else, but by doing so they stripped him of what Scanlan is. This is a creativy decisions that butchered Scanlan. No one that is new the show likes Scanlan. Also he does have the lucky feat, that was supposed to be for Vax. Overall, this decision butchered Scanlan so bad that he is an irredeemable character. Next season, if they do the Bard's Lament, new people will hate him and peopel who wactched C1 will love it, but those who are not bais from the C1 will realized it makes no sense, especially with S3 ending with how Scanlan is very happy with his current life as a father. He should retire, honestly. That's how it ended in C1. As for the decisions, yeah, Scanlan is one of those characters that makes no sense to be in Vox Machina. As for Wish and Counterspell, they are setting it up so Keyleth counterspells Vecna and Pike with their godlike power casts wish. Or just Pike does both. I'm seriously wondering why people are sleeping on these horrible changes. I keep seeing people going, this scene is so cool, to understand it you need to watch the C1 and you will see how cool it is. CR C1 and LoVM deviate from each other that you cannot just tell people to watch C1, these are completely different characters from C1 and honestly, if I asked what to watch, I'd say watch C1, it is the superior version.
The show did deviate from the campaign in lots of ways. I didn't think Scanlan was hated by new viewers, but maybe that's true. It's fair to be upset by changing the characters so drastically. Even if they had their reasons to do so.
@@Just.Westin The issue with Scanlan by my non-c1 one friends is that Scanlan is the stereotype of a horny bard and just about that. With just some cool moments that are all by luck and not really his ability
bro, its not 1 to 1 because they don't have the rights to rip off everything, and pike is a WAR cleric so it would make sense that she doesn't take certain spells
@@Multistrangedude1 bro, I am making a video where I try to figure out what the characters classes would be in dungeons and dragons as if it was 1 to 1. I am fully aware that there are many changes for many many different reasons. And I'm aware that the show is not based on dungeons and dragons 5th edition for legal reasons
I am somewhat bored of Pike having Clerictile Dysfunction every time she needs to do anything.......... it goes completely against how good she was in the tabletop game! Any of VM: Pike, we need help over here! Pike in show: " Groaning noises " Everlight, pleaseeee.
It's getting a little repetitive, but I see it as her running out of magic for the day instead of always having a poor connection with the Everlight. It has been an interesting change, I understand if you dislike it.
@Just.Westin but, you made a point that Pike wasn't a cleric because she didn't cast revivify. Also, the shield could be a cleric spell, I don't know which one for sure, maybe Bless? And if the person succeeds that what it looks like? I don't know. Anyways, definitely a fun watch, and helped expand my own point of view.
Just to counteract the "Vex never using Hunter's Mark." She used it like, 15 times in the campaign. They had to put it on a white board to remined her. lol Not saying you are wrong in any way, I just wanted to point that out.
@@Minoze I was talking about her not using it in the legend of vox machina TV show. I know she used it in the Livestream campaign. Thanks for trying to keep me honest though
@@Just.Westin He technically did get powers from it becouse he managed to think about the schematics for his gun and make the first working prototype after "making a deal" with it
@@HyperPotato0888 yes that was there "arrangement" But I mean an ability from the Warlock DND. I wouldn't consider his guns to be Eldritch blasts or anything. Would you?
@@Just.Westin not really but maybe they got hexed when their name was written on his gun ? I know a pretty far fetched but i think a cool concept also A+ video a very enjoyable watch
Different Clerics can have different abilities. You don't have to follow the skeletal rules of the PHB. Your observations place you in a box. The "rules" are a guideline not a box.
@@josephkelly7278 in this video I am using the skeletal rules of the PHB to figure out which class the characters from this animated show would be if they were D&D characters. Based on that premise, I am indeed placing them in a rigid guideline box.
I mean, Pike is a war cleric. She's supposed to be Paladin Lite ™️. She is spellcasting constantly through the series. She heals in almost every battle, we see her cast cleric exclusives like Prayer of Healing, spiritual weapon, etc. The purpose of subclasses in D&D is to give different flavor and play styles to a class. Pike very much fits a War Cleric if youve ever seen one 😅 Vex uses magic a couple of times, but not often. I think thats also part of the beastmaster flavor though. You missed quite a few appearances of Trinket, including the fight against the ooze in the Feywild, she brought him out during the fight at Pyrah, etc. We do see Vex use magic in some of the early episodes, but the show clearly made some choices to reduce party overlap. By rights, Keyleth and Scanlan should both be healers. But we very rarely see them do anything with healing because they have Pike.
My question is how does this iteration compare to Dagger Heart classes? I haven’t kept up too much with the game but I wonder if Vex matches up better with the Daggerheart Ranger. Then does Pike match up with the Seraph, which is essentially the game’s Cleric?
@@josephkelly7278 the ranger class in the TTRPG game known as dungeons and dragons have spellcasting as a feature. In this video, I'm taking the characters from the animated show and determining which dungeons and dragons class they would be if they were a D&D character.
@Just.Westin Mercer is an experienced DM, and knows he can change the rules and model of the game to fit his players needs and Ideas, the D&D rules are moot, as they may not fit the players needs or may not fit the world, as the rule set for 5e is for Forgotten Realms and not necessarily D&D as a whole.
@@josephkelly7278 I'm not saying anything about the critical role tabletop show. Stop bringing that up. I am saying if we take Vex, the character from the TV show The Legend of Vox Machina, and recreate THAT character as a class in D&D 5e (without any influence of homebrew changes) then she would be a fighter in my opinion. No hate to the characters, the producers, the cast and crew of CR.
@@Just.Westin I don’t remember the exact episode but when the undead dogs had Scanlan she spent some extra time before shooting. (I know it could just be her aiming, but it could also be that she was choosing a target for the spell)
I think they are not DND classes in the show. They are moreso an amalgamation of DND, PF1 and their own ideas. They are not bound to DND rules in the show and CR as a whole seem to be moving away from the DND brand. That's just my two cents.
@@SomeoneTookMyOldName , It certainly seems inspired by by that spell, just in a more simplified, visually beefed up form fit for an action-packed fantasy, like how her energy mace is just her Spiritual Weapon.
@@jdtru1808 omg, this entire video was just a funny bit where I take it too seriously! (No sarcasm. I hope nobody thinks I'm complaining about the show)
Uh dude, Revivify is on the paladin spell list and pike could be a war cleric. Scanlan is a bard they just don't say "bardic inspiration" because it done thematically, and he was a lore bard that could use his inspiration on himself. Vax actually has levels of paladin due to his devotion to the Raven Queen. You make arguments based off of the smallest and most intangible things in this video. Is grog not a barbarian because he doesn't frenzy? no he's still a berserker barbarian that chooses not to use a skill because of the detriment. There were thematic reasons for Vex not to help with the door, she was trust Keyleth to handle it so she could focus on the dragon. You know, her FAVORED ENEMY. Kash canonically was the one to use revivify on Vex in the tomb. Vex always relied more on magic items and martial ability with a bow than on her magic, and Keyleth is a nervous wreck the entire time that has an arc to overcome it. Not every character is going to conform to the classic "norms" of a class. That's the entire gimmick of the group. Edited because there was more to rant about.
@@Mesteryman1 absolutely. I'm saying Pike didn't know revivify yet because she had less spell slots and lower level spells compared to Kashaw. You are giving a little more detail that helps my explanation for why Pike could be a paladin.
@@Just.Westin or she just didn't take the spell, there was a subtle narrative that using resurrection was not standard. Again, not every character plays to the "norms" of the meta.
The video is not judging critical role or anyone involved with the show. I'm taking the characters from the show (as they are) and choosing which dungeons and dragons class most accurately depicts them(in my ridiculous opinion). I was not taking into account what they were in pathfinder or their D&D game. Since the release of this video, many comments have made good arguments against my choices. which I respect. I am sorry you didn't like the video.
@Just.Westin not saying I don't like the video. Just that trying to compare the classes from what amounts to three editions ago with the current rules is not going to work. Every edition has done the back to basic with their initial approach and then proceed to flood us with new stuff that is often just older stuff "redesigned". I won't play beyond D&D 3.5 or first edition Pathfinder because of that fact.
5:38 "Scanlan never uses Bardic Inspiration"..... cut to the fight with Kevdak where he literally starts a Rock Concert to give his friends the sickiest soundtrack for their fight and boost their morale
if that aint BARDIC INSPIRATION i dont what is :V
@@matheusfiorelli8829 some others have pointed that out as well.
That's something I actually missed / forgot about. I am the fool for missing that.
IT WAS SO SICK! That moment and the acid trap in season 1
That and during Scanlan's Fastball Special of throwing Vax at the undead giants, right after Pike made her grand entrance on the battlefield and giving Scanlan himself a morale boost.
Pike spams shield of faith
Vex can be a Ranger without visible magic. Rangers are not full casters like Druids, or Wizards, so in this particular instance she may not have been able to help open the portal. Also Hunter's Mark could be viewed as something where she simply needs to concentrate to deal the extra damage. There have been a few instances in the show where she is seen holding her shot which could indicate her target has Hunter's Mark. Just because a video game indicates Hunter's Mark with some glowing indicator does not mean this show should too.
@@scottcampbell9515 I do agree with most of the stuff you've said. My video is being picky and snarky on purpose after all.
One part I don't agree on is the portal. Kima is definitely a Paladin, which mechanically has the same amount of magic / spell slots as rangers (in DND.) So the fact she was able to help open the portal shows that half-casters can do it.
But Vex isn't a spell caster.
@@Just.Westin Kima could be multiclassed in Cleric. We don't know because she's an NPC, and thus the DM can hand wave things to progress the story in a fair way if needed. The Everlight could have also offered assistance to Kima in that moment (which would be a DM inspiration, and also on an NPC thus the hand wavyness of it).
...also Rangers who don't cast spells is not that uncommon. They are still Rangers.
@@scottcampbell9515 And Vex could be a fighter.
@@Just.Westin For what it is worth, Canonically if we're looking at the original campaign Vex ends up being a multiclassed Ranger/Rogue.
Looking back at the show (which is what your video addresses afterall), it's clear they were leaning into this vision long term. Shes clearly setup to have a similar skillset to Vax that is more focused on archery and cooperative tactics (with vax, trinket, and later other characters turning her into the leader role)
I support your arguement that she isn't the "wizards of the coast" ranger fully as she does seem to have dropped all spellcasting (Which she did have in the campaign) and we got "some of it" back with her bow being "Exagerrated" in the show (this happened with all vestiges except arguably The Deathwalkers Ward [vax's] which actually just is that crazy.)
That being said, ranger is the "Worst" designed class in 5e and many versions of it drop spellcasting in favor of combat manuever type mechanics, wilderness mechanics, or pet mechanics (or some mish-mash of these depending on the homebrew) which it seems like they went for the "combat manuever" approach for Vex in the show. Which... honestly just lines up with her characterization from the campaign better anyway.
Unrelated to Vex but to the video:
I didn't really think about it but your argument for Pike being turned into a paladin is very compelling. Honestly it's probably what Ashley would have wanted to be if they hadn't been brand new to it all at the time! The way she played Pike was very "Paladin" so it makes sense that she comes across this way.
Scanlan is definitely still just a bard. Just because they don't make the "Bardic Inspiration" look "magical" doesn't mean it isnt happening. Not to mention that everyone in the party consistently performs everything better when he is playing music (whether that is fighting or some sort of skill challenges). Example proof: Season 1 when they are stuck in the acid trap. Season 2 when fighting Kevdak + Clan. etc. The list goes on but it is consistent that when the music is playing Vox Machina performs better. This is likely their way of showing "Bardic Inspiration".
Also doubles as the shows backtrack so that's a cool way to meta-joke the "music backtrack when things are about to get epic" stigma.
@@scottcampbell9515 , For this animated continuity at least, it seems to some degree, titles like Paladin and Cleric have more to do with their profession and station than strict capabilities, though Clerics seem to still have more uses of their powers than Paladin's either way.
Also of note, Kima being able to her powers to help with the rift despite her saying it wasn't her "forte" suggests that despite there being different types of mages, they all can use their powers in more generalized ways not bound by specific effects and structured spells, like lending their energy aid a affect like opening a portal (or closing one, as shown when both Kima and Allura were aiding in closing the Fire Plane rift).
I think a large reason why the show counterparts have different skill sets is to make it easier for the audience to keep track of everything. D&D characters have A LOT of abilities and asking an audience to remember all of them for an entire party would be too much, especially since a lot of them (Inspiration, Action Surge, Second Wind, Hunter's Mark etc) don't have good visual signifiers to let the audience know when they're being used.
The show Vox Machina feel more like simplified versions of their respective classes using the most iconic bits. For example, Scanlan has Bigby's Hand, music and some utility/support spells and Pike has Spiritual Weapon, Shield of Faith and healing magic (and Flame Strike and Guiding Bolt sometimes). For the martials, their abilities are mostly turned into superhuman feats, like Vax being super fast while Sneak Attack is him striking at his opponent's weak spots.
As for Vex's lack of magic, I think it's mostly because we already have Pike, Scanalan and Keyleth using magic so giving Vex magic on top of that would be a lot to manage (not to mention expensive to animate). Plus a lot of Ranger spells aren't overtly magical like other spellcasters, and the ones that are tend to be nature magic which would make it harder to distinguish from Keyleth's. Fenthras is able to replicate most of the really magical spells like Ensnaring Strike, Flame Arrows and Lightning Arrow anyway.
Lastly, Pike is absolutely a Cleric, specifically of the War Domain. They get access to Spiritual Weapon and Shield of Faith (her glowing mace and shield), Flame Strike (she uses that to blast the zombie giant in season 2), their Channel Divinity lets them boost an ally's attack roll (she does this to Vex's arrow to shoot Brimscythe's throat) and Crusader's Mantle (the spell that gives your allies' attacks bonus radiant damage, she casts it on the people of Whitestone to fight the zombie horde). Her not knowing Revivify doesn't mean she's not a Cleric, the show makes it clear that resurrection magic isn't easy and Pike routinely struggles with her faith which is a fair reason for her not being able to cast higher level spells.
Sure. I like my ideas too
Scanlan is a bard but doenst use his inspiration on others often.
Sword bard?
@@Kantilvih that sounds good to me.
Sword Bard
The only notable feat Scanlan performs akin to the Inspiration effect that I can recall is his "We All Rage" song during the Herd Of Storms fight.
@callmev3531 scanlan does plenty of notable stuff. He just doesn't "inspire" since it is a nebulous concept and doesn't translate to non gaming as a resource. For example He soloed that distraction house in whiterun,He destroyed orthanks vessel. He is great but let's the cast shine.
That might me it. Works great when you think about his vestige Mythcarver. It's a god-damn sword and he actually (sometimes) uses it to slice up things
@@Kantilvih Sorry, that was a writing error on my part.
I meant to say the only notable feat "akin to the Inspiration effect" that he performs.
Besides that, he mostly uses his energy hand (which is just Bigby's Hand), physical illusions, the items he used to Blink, the scroll incantation he used to Polymorph and of course, his crotch lightning.
1:45 rangers and media often aren't portrayed as spellcasters
@@danielwolfe1587 correct. I was going on what class they would be in dungeons and dragons.
My fault. The premise isn't super duper clear.
You’re confusing the job ranger with the dnd class. Lots of people think of characters that would be rouges or fighters in dnd but she specifically is a class that has magic.
@@dean0730 Fairly certain DND didn't come up with the idea of a ranger, but oftentimes in media characters that would suit the role of a ranger are portrayed as so skilled it borders on magic, this is why so many people flavor their ranger spells as non magical
@@danielwolfe1587 They didn't no. But likewise, Rangers being spellcasters isn't a thing that is always true in DnD. Original Ranger was a subclass of Fighter and most of the examples back then weren't magical in nature. Well, they weren't active spellcasters at least.
I know this is a bit of a meme video (Super fun btw! love the chaos) but I do at least want to point out:
Vex does have one consistant showing of magic and that is her ability to sense Dragons, its a refrence to the Primeval Awareness feature from the Ranger. Which is better than nothing!
Pike is a Cleric (War) for sure..ish. So the show does a good job imo at showing the differences between a Paladin like Kima (and Vax) vs a War Cleric like Pike. Kima (and Vax) specifically uses physical weapons and can empower them with sparks of divine magic whereas Pike and Kashaw are actively summoning divine weapons like morningstars and spears to fight their foes while also being able to summon divine shields or in Pike's case also summon her armor. They can pray directly to their god and bring down massive blasts of radiant magic. They can both heal people, etc. Pike does all of this pretty well. Her not knowing the full scope of what a Cleric can do doesn't stop her from being a Cleric. Where I personally think you could see Pike less as a Cleric and more like a Paladin is in how her powers are getting stopped/bottlenecked by her lack of belief/faith in herself. Clerics generally have to believe in and pray to their Deity, and their Deity will help them within reason- Paladins have an Oath they swear to and when they begin to waver their belief in their Oath they start to lose power. Pike has been struggling with upholding a belief in both The Everlight and most importantly herself, a big part of her current story is that her power comes from her not some Deity or fancy armor, her and conviction to fight. That feels much closer to a Paladin than anything else- down to the fact that she's even healing people with her own blood.
Scanlan's a Bard for sure! Bards are all about knowledge/lore gathering so Scanlan learning magic vicariously after using a Scroll or by seeing someone like Delilah cast Silence works fine to fit that image. Bards have to practice and learn their magic, unlike how a Wizard has to understand the complex functions of each part of a spell a Bard can do it via tapping into the Words of Creation or in Scanlans case- sing/perform it through his heart and soul! Though yeah its strange that Scanlan Shorthalt the Legendary Bard of Vox Machina, wielder of the Bardic Artifact Mythcarver, doesn't inspire his friends in the show. Maybe they felt it would be too hard to visualize in the show? They could have it so Scanlan's inspirations look like electricity flowing through a person making them stronger or faster or more reslient, or something like that. However you think the Bless spell would look in animation is kinda how I think Bardic Inspiration would look here.
@@Finalplayer14 this (and many other comments here) are a great show of teaching others via your perspective and thoughts.
I made this video cause I think it's funny that some characters could be seen as a class that wasn't theirs in the live streams, and then you (and others) give their view of how they perceived different aspects in different ways.
I like your depiction of Pike and Kashaws divine weapons, but you still gave your way of viewing Pike as being more similar to paladins compared to Kashaws.
I agree with the primeval awareness that Vex has. I know she has it but I purposefully left that out to fit my narrative.
Thank you for your ideas / perception
Scalan is a Lore bard and as a Lore Bard, he spends his inspirations mostly on Cutting Words. I interpret every time he helps someone escape an area spell with Bigby's hand or hinders and distracts an enemy as a use of cutting words. And to be honest, it suits the character more to hinder others than to inspire in my opinion.
Another Piece of Evidence for Pike Being a Paladin: SPOILERS
Pike can still use her magic when she very clearly rejects her Goddess during the Thordak fight
Nice deduction
"It's not the armor, it's me" is a very charisma based thing to say
True
Looking at Episode 1 of Season 1, Vex seems to make her arrows glow before firing them during Vox Machina's first encounter with the lightning dragon.
Unless she already had a magic item by that point, that seems like magic to it.
@@ecchicharmed I went back and checked. Correct. It seems like she does. Weird. In all other cases I remember her buying magic arrows or being Fenthras.
Good find
I'd say Percival is actually a duel class of gunslinger and warlock, then reclassed to gunslinger and artificer;
(spoilers)
he literally made an unwitting pact with a patron in order to make the pepperbox operable, because he failed to make it work so many times (because he wasn't an artificer) and the patron was the one who made it work properly. Then after they had the fight against the patron, he successfully created a new one (albeit not as good) because he 'leveled up' and reclassed into artificer
@@ServantofBaal very interesting. You make a fun case.
I wonder what warlock powers he would have used.
Maybe Hex whenever he saw a person on his List?
@@Just.Westin It’s been a while since I watched it but I remember it mostly made him much harder to kill when possessed
@@Just.Westin He became something like a revenant; able to just keep getting up after being put down
@@ServantofBaal certainly. That was his powers when possessed by Orthax. I was brainstorming abilities when Percy was (mostly) Percy.
@@Just.Westin Ah. Well, I remember the bullets all had the names on them, so some argument for hex or something sounds plausible
No mention of the idea about Percy multiclassing into warlock? Even to dismiss it? His lore fit into that, the mask could be the spellcasting focus and that black fog his own magic other than only the demons magic.
@@sublimefanaticsf8616 true
Percy ended up taking Magic Initiate to reflect his more demonic abilities as a result of his deal with Orthax.
He didn't multiclass. He took Magic Intiate (Warlock).
Scanlan is a multiclass bard rogue arcane trickster. The giant magical hand makes me think of it.
Haha. Nice
thats just bigbys hand he get trhough magical seecrets at level 10
Love the pitch on Pike being a paladin, fits super well especially since Pike’s most recent arc feels more paladin-coded to me. For Vex, I still feels ranger to me (the dragon sense is not from an item and feels like primeval awareness (just activated randomly enough to make it pop up at random))
I agree with both statements. The primeval awareness is a great sign. But all the other stuff would make me choose a different class.
IDK
Characters in RPGs have classes, characters in animation, not so much.
@@ChryssaBL and this video is taking the characters in animation and seeing which class they would end up being. 👍
I would argue that both Vex and Pike are ranger and cleric respectively, just not D&D but pathfinder's since both Ashley and Laura claim time and time again how they preferred their old build over the D&D conversion
Good explanation!
In my video I was only thinking about 5th edition.
That's funny since a few minutes ago I was watching the new episode at the gun pirates and thought "It sure would be nice if she used Ranger spells for a change"
She even was snuck up on by two dumb pirates on a wooden pier. She is no Fighter/Rogue/Druid = Ranger
@@chrismeandyou exactly
5:55 - When he throws Grog in season one he sings a whole ditty first about how he's giving a hand. Usually when he just uses Scanlan's Hand he just says "Scanlan's hand", so you could interpret the extra lines as being the inspiration, which makes sense because then Grog proceeds to cut a giant in two.
@@davidbodor1762 true. It's possible to perceive general lines in battle as bardic inspiration. I didn't think of it like that and assumed it had to be more unique.
I'll have to keep an eye out next time I watch the earlier seasons
pike is a sorcadin, one of the subplots in this season was literally her embracing the power in her blood
WOAH!! I did not think of that. That's an awesome theory!!!
high on mushrooms and came across this guy.. nuff said
Sick
Always remember there original classes were from pathfinder 1e
@@properheresy8880 true
I always though that Persival was an Warlock and the gun was a spell focus for Eldritch Blast. Before Artificer I used Warlock to make a a Human Pep-Zee Greenbottle warlock Feind/Tome he used a rod as a spell focus and reskined it into a riffle and he had the healer feat claiming it was his healing potions. I would have him drink from a vile and breath fire for his burning hands and his riffle was shooting eldiricth blast. His personality was a cross of the Nutty Professor, Elmer Fude and a western snake oil sellsman. Every time I play him around kids they cant help but laugh.
ok counter to the first bit, kima is a paladin and she says "not my forte but I'll give it a shot" I'm under the impression kima and allura have been working together for longer than vex has with keyleth and it was only through familiarity she had any chance of helping with the rift
That's a good explanation for why kima has magic.
You're saying eventually Vex will be at that level. But not yet. Which would justify how they're both half casters.
I think they're actually not D&D classes in the show at all, but classes from Critical Role's own RPG Daggerheart.
Pike's abilities in the show for example remind me of what I've read of the Seraph class from Daggerheart.
@@SomeGuyFromAustria very good find.
I knew they purposefully don't mention DND abilities or stuff, but I never considered they might be mimicking daggerheart. Nice!
Do you know whats fun. If you are using your pbone to type a comment and the next video autoplays, you comment posts to the next video. Crazy stuff. Could be inconvenient for some people. 🎉
@@derekboman2010 okay.
2 solutions.
First is you could pause the video or stop auto play after it's done. But that's super inconvenient
So I would instead comment halfway through the video once you know how it'll end. I'm sure that won't ever be annoying?
Both of them can be their original class in the t20 system, they work like that
I don't know what the t20 system is. I tried Google searching it but it says D20 system.
@@Just.Westin Its a brazilian rpg system, there's a module to play in english on Roll20
@@ProjetoXHunter okay. That's pretty interesting. Thanks for sharing
I feel like Scanlan was a little shortchanged in the show, only using the hand and some illusions. Although bigbys hand was his signature move. Even the songs aren't really getting there and sound autotuned. Other small production could make pop song parodies, that's what Sam shined with
I wouldn't know the exact legal ramifications, but I'm sure they can't blatantly parody a popular song without some form of financial nonsense.
But I do agree with the sentiment that Scanlan was simplified a little in terms of fighting / spells.
(But his character got a lot of moments with his motives and relationships which was great!)
@@Just.Westin What's my mothers name!? xD
Mechanically speaking, perhaps these characters don't always fit into their class archetypes, though in regards to this being an animated series specifically inspired by the campaign's story and not the game of Dungeons & Dragons as a whole, characters like Vex could be considered a Ranger specifically in regards to her survival skills, not her possessing them in addition to nature magic, within the context of this continuity, just Kima's profession is that of a Paladin, Scanlan's profession is that of a Bard (come to think of it, I'd imagine to normal people living in this setting, characters like Scanlan would probably be considered simply mages or be mistaken for Sorcerers or Wizards unless they specifically knew how spell casters and magical practitioners worked or about other esoteric phenomena outside of magic like qi, psionics and divinity) and Grog would be considered by most people in civilized areas a Barbarian...because he is one.
In general, in some areas, these characters have been limited or simplified in terms of their capabilities (such as Scanlan requiring items to Blink and an incantation he learned from a scroll to Polymorph, while otherwise seeming mostly capable of illusions and his energy appendage constructs inspired by Bigby's Hand) or, alternatively, certain attributes were heightened to be more prominent than others (Pike's shield and morningstar are now just energy constructs she can create, the latter two apparently being inspired by Shield Of Faith and Spiritual Weapon, while she can either create or summon armor from her amulet similar to what she had in astral form, suggesting it's also an energy construct able to fully resemble actual materials).
@@callmev3531 I do know that many changes were made because it's a show. The video is taking it too seriously as if it has to translate 1 to 1 with something.
I did like your explanation for Pikes weapons and armor. Good thinking
@@Just.Westin , Thank you. It wasn't my intention to suggest this video took the series too seriously, just presenting observations regarding how the show adapts the power system of the game.
Took me a while actually to really notice the armor Pike manifests in Season 2 is the same exact one she has in her astral form and question where it really came from, same with realizing her energy weapons (and by extension, other Clerics in the show like Kashaw) are inspired both by those spells and by her in-game combat equipment, simplified into being constructs she can make.
It's one of my favorite details of this show how they adapted these characters abilities and the power system of the game into a show format.
I mean there are a number of moments where it can be argued that scanlan does use bardic inspiration. But even if you want to argue against it, he could just not be using that ability.
Yeah. I was told of many moments in the comments. When he plays guitar in the acid room season 1 or the Thordak fight in season 2 are great examples.
The video is a satire joke, I know what I'm saying is silly.
I feel like Trinket not participating in battles is totally on par with the live stream as Laura is super protective of him and either doesn't take Trinket into battle or forgets to use him :D
@@kronotoop fair enough. I know he isn't used in all fights in the campaign, but it's such a small percentage in the show.
I want to see trinket!
The Bear class is the most op class ever brought out
@@ryanpratt6993 true
Vex could be a thief as well, both Thieves and Rangers are stealthy skill monkies but Rangers have innate casting while Thieves use magic tools and tend to scale in proportion to the money and prep time they have access too.
True
Pike being a paladin might even make sense with her Season 3 "arc". A Cleric would /not/ be able to go with a "maybe the real divine magic was in you all along" arc that didn't end with her being cast away by her god and left powerless.
True. Regardless of if she is Paladin or Cleric I think the story arc is very fun to watch unfold.
Rangers magic is more so a Rangers hunting technique. Most of a Rangers 'spells' are either traps or proficient navigation through an environment. Alot of spells a ranger has does have magical properties sure but over all most of their magic is not exactly visible, unless its obvious like Lightning Arrow or Conjure Barrage. Hunters Mark I can more so see hyper focusing onto a targets weak spot to deal the extra damage, I think the mystical marking of a target effect is more so a flavoring thing for players to have fun with; giving a little extra character detail that makes their hunters mark unique.
Very fair arguments.
Aww! Justice for Pike!
Pike is great no matter what class you or I believe her to be!
I dumno. Scanlan ordering Grog to make him some goddamn omlets and smacking him across the face came across as bardic inspiration to me
Ha
Wait! You just say Trinket is a bear? Nothing else? Maybe Trinket is a druid, who forgot how to transform back to his original form.
@@SacredBloodful TRINKET TOTALLY COULD BE A PERMASHAPED DRUID!
@@Just.Westin Or another Idea; A Fighter, transformed by some evil mage
3:50 cleric in the 2024 rule have Revivify.
@@antonioguak647 yes. But Pike doesn't seem accustomed to it.
Many reasons can be given for why, I chose to say that it's because she's a Paladin and doesn't get it until higher levels.
Very well saw though
Paladins can know the spell Revivify..
@@benceszabo3333 correct. But they wouldn't get the spell as early in their levels.
So Pike may not have any experience with revivify where Kashaw does.
oh Scan man is the EASIEST one to figure out.... you are correct, he isn't a bard.... he is a SHITTY bard (but awesome character... nobody hit me please)
Haha. Scanlan is totally just a bad bard.
If they want to hurt you, they'll have to go through me.
Vex is ranger because her favored enemy are dragons and that is proeminent in the series.
Ahhh yes. The dragon sense
Adaptations aren't meant to be the same as the original. Have you compared the "How To Train Your Dragon" books to the movies?
@@ThePrincessCH nope. And I'm not complaining about the adaption.
I'm just figuring out what DND classes Vox Machina would be.
Wait... There are books of "How to train your dragon"?
@@PuszystyG Yes. The story was originally written by Cressida Cowell.
@@ThePrincessCH dayum
they've already mentioned (since the release of season 1) that the decision was made so people that's not familiar with the game would get a better idea of what's the role of each character.
Scanlan won't be using much healing, because that's Pike's job.
Vex would not be doing ranger's spells because the aesthetic or vibe is more like Keyleth's nature type of spells.
otherwise people could consider that they all can do whatever the other character can do...which in a way is almost true in a D&D game but it will make writing harder as you no longer have to rely only in one character to do something specific (like the portal thing)
@@RpgLore thanks for explaining that.
I think that gives me more reason to figure out exactly what class they would be after being changed.
They all are their og classes, with some liberties taken since it's not a 1 to 1 table to show, cuz copyright and adapting to medium
My video is looking at the characters in the show and determining what class they would be without using the tabletop game as reference.
Missed the point of the video but good comment
Clearly Pike uses different types of smites.
Scanlan is clearly a commoner with feats. Magic initative, Enteratiner background. He doesn't really have high spells.Scanlan got stripped of his abilities because they realized he was the ultimate support and instead of him being a support they gave everyhing to everyone else, but by doing so they stripped him of what Scanlan is. This is a creativy decisions that butchered Scanlan. No one that is new the show likes Scanlan. Also he does have the lucky feat, that was supposed to be for Vax. Overall, this decision butchered Scanlan so bad that he is an irredeemable character. Next season, if they do the Bard's Lament, new people will hate him and peopel who wactched C1 will love it, but those who are not bais from the C1 will realized it makes no sense, especially with S3 ending with how Scanlan is very happy with his current life as a father. He should retire, honestly. That's how it ended in C1.
As for the decisions, yeah, Scanlan is one of those characters that makes no sense to be in Vox Machina. As for Wish and Counterspell, they are setting it up so Keyleth counterspells Vecna and Pike with their godlike power casts wish. Or just Pike does both.
I'm seriously wondering why people are sleeping on these horrible changes. I keep seeing people going, this scene is so cool, to understand it you need to watch the C1 and you will see how cool it is. CR C1 and LoVM deviate from each other that you cannot just tell people to watch C1, these are completely different characters from C1 and honestly, if I asked what to watch, I'd say watch C1, it is the superior version.
The show did deviate from the campaign in lots of ways.
I didn't think Scanlan was hated by new viewers, but maybe that's true.
It's fair to be upset by changing the characters so drastically. Even if they had their reasons to do so.
@@Just.Westin The issue with Scanlan by my non-c1 one friends is that Scanlan is the stereotype of a horny bard and just about that. With just some cool moments that are all by luck and not really his ability
They are the classe they've been in DnD. But as classes from daggerheart. Thats my suspicion.
bro, its not 1 to 1 because they don't have the rights to rip off everything, and pike is a WAR cleric so it would make sense that she doesn't take certain spells
@@Multistrangedude1 bro, I am making a video where I try to figure out what the characters classes would be in dungeons and dragons as if it was 1 to 1.
I am fully aware that there are many changes for many many different reasons. And I'm aware that the show is not based on dungeons and dragons 5th edition for legal reasons
I am somewhat bored of Pike having Clerictile Dysfunction every time she needs to do anything.......... it goes completely against how good she was in the tabletop game!
Any of VM: Pike, we need help over here!
Pike in show: " Groaning noises " Everlight, pleaseeee.
It's getting a little repetitive, but I see it as her running out of magic for the day instead of always having a poor connection with the Everlight.
It has been an interesting change, I understand if you dislike it.
Hot take. Clerics prepare a list of spells, they don't have to prepare Revivify, or Raise Dead, or Resurrection, or Cure Wounds, or Healing Word.
That's the mildest take ever. That's not even a take, it's just the rules
@Just.Westin but, you made a point that Pike wasn't a cleric because she didn't cast revivify.
Also, the shield could be a cleric spell, I don't know which one for sure, maybe Bless? And if the person succeeds that what it looks like? I don't know.
Anyways, definitely a fun watch, and helped expand my own point of view.
Just to counteract the "Vex never using Hunter's Mark." She used it like, 15 times in the campaign. They had to put it on a white board to remined her. lol
Not saying you are wrong in any way, I just wanted to point that out.
@@Minoze I was talking about her not using it in the legend of vox machina TV show.
I know she used it in the Livestream campaign.
Thanks for trying to keep me honest though
wasnt percy technically a warlock in season 1 becouse he had a patron demon ?
@@HyperPotato0888 good idea. No idea if he had powers from it or if he was just possessed. Something's up either way
@@Just.Westin He technically did get powers from it becouse he managed to think about the schematics for his gun and make the first working prototype after "making a deal" with it
@@HyperPotato0888 yes that was there "arrangement"
But I mean an ability from the Warlock DND. I wouldn't consider his guns to be Eldritch blasts or anything. Would you?
@@Just.Westin not really but maybe they got hexed when their name was written on his gun ? I know a pretty far fetched but i think a cool concept also A+ video a very enjoyable watch
He hadn't multiclassed into Warlock, but he had the Magic Initiate Feat which gave him his Hex spell
Different Clerics can have different abilities. You don't have to follow the skeletal rules of the PHB.
Your observations place you in a box. The "rules" are a guideline not a box.
@@josephkelly7278 in this video I am using the skeletal rules of the PHB to figure out which class the characters from this animated show would be if they were D&D characters.
Based on that premise, I am indeed placing them in a rigid guideline box.
The bad editing is the charm and im loving it
@@sheanstanks what? Bad editing?
Thanks
@@Just.Westin it's not actually bad, I mean my videos aren't any better and I'm just saying it isnt high end. Not trying to be mean hahah sorry
@@sheanstanks I understood completely. I saw it as a compliment. Having charm is a nice quality.
I mean, Pike is a war cleric. She's supposed to be Paladin Lite ™️. She is spellcasting constantly through the series. She heals in almost every battle, we see her cast cleric exclusives like Prayer of Healing, spiritual weapon, etc. The purpose of subclasses in D&D is to give different flavor and play styles to a class. Pike very much fits a War Cleric if youve ever seen one 😅
Vex uses magic a couple of times, but not often. I think thats also part of the beastmaster flavor though. You missed quite a few appearances of Trinket, including the fight against the ooze in the Feywild, she brought him out during the fight at Pyrah, etc. We do see Vex use magic in some of the early episodes, but the show clearly made some choices to reduce party overlap. By rights, Keyleth and Scanlan should both be healers. But we very rarely see them do anything with healing because they have Pike.
Indeed
Yeah you know Ashley probably would have been a lot happier playing a paladin from the start instead of a cleric.
@@usermammal maybe. War cleric is still dope
@@Just.Westin no slight on any cleric
My question is how does this iteration compare to Dagger Heart classes? I haven’t kept up too much with the game but I wonder if Vex matches up better with the Daggerheart Ranger. Then does Pike match up with the Seraph, which is essentially the game’s Cleric?
@@rekcroom good question. I know very little about daggerheart but I'm interested in that idea
Rangers don't have to have magic.
Ranger is a specialized fighter class that relies on skills rather than straight fighting.
@@josephkelly7278 the ranger class in the TTRPG game known as dungeons and dragons have spellcasting as a feature.
In this video, I'm taking the characters from the animated show and determining which dungeons and dragons class they would be if they were a D&D character.
@Just.Westin Mercer is an experienced DM, and knows he can change the rules and model of the game to fit his players needs and Ideas, the D&D rules are moot, as they may not fit the players needs or may not fit the world, as the rule set for 5e is for Forgotten Realms and not necessarily D&D as a whole.
@@josephkelly7278 I'm not saying anything about the critical role tabletop show. Stop bringing that up.
I am saying if we take Vex, the character from the TV show The Legend of Vox Machina, and recreate THAT character as a class in D&D 5e (without any influence of homebrew changes) then she would be a fighter in my opinion.
No hate to the characters, the producers, the cast and crew of CR.
Didn’t Vex cast hunter’s mark, conjure barrage and lightning arrow?
@@RedRolen I feel like those are from her vestige, Fenthras. Not from her.
I don't remember what the hunters Mark would be. When did she do that?
@@Just.Westin I don’t remember the exact episode but when the undead dogs had Scanlan she spent some extra time before shooting. (I know it could just be her aiming, but it could also be that she was choosing a target for the spell)
I think they are not DND classes in the show. They are moreso an amalgamation of DND, PF1 and their own ideas. They are not bound to DND rules in the show and CR as a whole seem to be moving away from the DND brand. That's just my two cents.
Absolutely correct.
My video is taking their non-dnd characters and figuring out what they would be if they were strictly DND.
Thanks for your cents!
Isn’t pikes shield just the “shield of faith” spell?
@@SomeoneTookMyOldName sure. To me that only protects one person?
But things change in translation from game to show
@@SomeoneTookMyOldName , It certainly seems inspired by by that spell, just in a more simplified, visually beefed up form fit for an action-packed fantasy, like how her energy mace is just her Spiritual Weapon.
This is so absurd.
@@Mark-ke1rj thank you
You know people can play rangers without using spells right? Just enjoy the show Jesus Christ
@@drewishgaminginc.3942 I did enjoy the show.
This is a silly video. I hope you don't view it as harsh criticism.
OMG next your going to tell me movies don't follow the book perfectly.
@@jdtru1808 omg, this entire video was just a funny bit where I take it too seriously!
(No sarcasm. I hope nobody thinks I'm complaining about the show)
Uh dude, Revivify is on the paladin spell list and pike could be a war cleric. Scanlan is a bard they just don't say "bardic inspiration" because it done thematically, and he was a lore bard that could use his inspiration on himself. Vax actually has levels of paladin due to his devotion to the Raven Queen. You make arguments based off of the smallest and most intangible things in this video. Is grog not a barbarian because he doesn't frenzy? no he's still a berserker barbarian that chooses not to use a skill because of the detriment. There were thematic reasons for Vex not to help with the door, she was trust Keyleth to handle it so she could focus on the dragon. You know, her FAVORED ENEMY. Kash canonically was the one to use revivify on Vex in the tomb. Vex always relied more on magic items and martial ability with a bow than on her magic, and Keyleth is a nervous wreck the entire time that has an arc to overcome it. Not every character is going to conform to the classic "norms" of a class. That's the entire gimmick of the group.
Edited because there was more to rant about.
@@Mesteryman1 absolutely. I'm saying Pike didn't know revivify yet because she had less spell slots and lower level spells compared to Kashaw.
You are giving a little more detail that helps my explanation for why Pike could be a paladin.
@@Just.Westin or she just didn't take the spell, there was a subtle narrative that using resurrection was not standard. Again, not every character plays to the "norms" of the meta.
It appears to me that you do not have much breadth in your comprehension of D&D.
@@LeeCarlson I disagree. I like DND and play it a lot. This video is satirical. I hope you enjoyed it
@@Just.Westin, pardon me, I did not see the satire. Chalk it up to me being an old man.
@@LeeCarlson no worries. It's just for fun.
Critical Role isn't D&D anymore.
Correct. But this video is comparing the show to DND
bro chill out
Why? It's a silly video.
They started the campaign with Pathfinder, so you cannot use the D&D rules to judge. Really lazy and uninspired video.
The video is not judging critical role or anyone involved with the show.
I'm taking the characters from the show (as they are) and choosing which dungeons and dragons class most accurately depicts them(in my ridiculous opinion). I was not taking into account what they were in pathfinder or their D&D game.
Since the release of this video, many comments have made good arguments against my choices. which I respect.
I am sorry you didn't like the video.
@Just.Westin not saying I don't like the video. Just that trying to compare the classes from what amounts to three editions ago with the current rules is not going to work. Every edition has done the back to basic with their initial approach and then proceed to flood us with new stuff that is often just older stuff "redesigned". I won't play beyond D&D 3.5 or first edition Pathfinder because of that fact.