Great video. I traded in my 2022 BMW R1250 GS for a 2024 BMW R1250 GSA this year before I had even thought about test riding one of these. Wish I would have now. I have been riding adventure bikes since 2020 and my main reason for switching to the GS is because of the shaft drive. I really don't like chain maintenance especially since I am a long distance multi-day rider and at the end of a long day the last thing I want to do is mess with a chain. If Harley went that route I am sure they could get even more people to switch. I did pick up a 2024 Road Glide this year and absolutely love that bike.
I have a 21 Pan America, and it is absolutely amazing. I got mine late in 2021, and I have had virtually no issues. There have been a few software updates early on to fix some minor issues, but this bike has been a dream and a lot of fun to own. I do believe the PA is very underrated and the new BMW GS is a little overrated. Either way, if you are in the market for a large adventure bike you will need to test ride a Harley, BMW, Honda, Ducati and KTM and any other contender and buy what fits you best. I did this, all of the other bikes were awesome, I almost bought an Africa Twin, but one ride on the PA and I was sold. I have no regrets. Buy something and get out and ride.
Honestly, having just ridden the new BMW 1300GS, I like the Harley engine much more. I'm kinda over chain pulling though, because I'm lazy, but my next adventure bike will probably be the AT or HD anyway.
Thanks for your commentary. We recently purchased a '21 Pan American. I plan on using it as an IBA runner and a test model as I have rented one for an Alps tour. Thanks for your straight forward way. You have been a bright spot in my research. Be safe. Happy Motoring.
I just rented a 2022 Pan America and rode it around the Smokey Mtns and North Georgia (Suches area). It is an AMAZING motorcycle! I currently own a Street Glide Special with a 131 Big Bore. Very different motorcycles. Each has it own unique ride and vibe. For long trips and just cruising, the SGS is the choice. For everything else, the Pan America, especially in the twisties. I'm 5'7" on a good day and had no issues. Wish they would come out with a 900cc though.
100% on getting a 24. I have a 22 and love it, and have not had any major issues. The bike is outstanding. The only issue I have is that a two year old Harleyd epreciated 14k. I was not expecting that. Ride safe.
Great point about upfront pricing..............High Desert HD in Meridian, Idaho is like that, NO PRICE TAGS.............and then they charge enormous setup fees; very sleazy.
I have my eyes set on a 2023 Pan American that l can get for a great deal, but after seeing your video where you talk about previous models issues, l am not sure what to do.
@ridingwithmarshall thanks for your reply. Can l ask what retro fit means? The 2023 Pan American that l am looking at has onky 300 miles on it is selling for 20.000 Canadian dollars or 16.000 US which l thought was a great deal until l saw all these negative revies. I really wanted to find a good review so l could justify buying this bike, but l honestly didn't find any.
No way would I buy one of these new. My buddy just picked one up with less than a 100 miles on it for half what a new one cost. One or two year old Pan Americans are going for $10k - $12k with very low miles.
I brought a 2022 Pan Am Special, in March 2023, it gets ridden mostly every day. I did have the have the draining battery problem, I think it was more that he battery was sitting flat for 1 year and the battery was dodge. Recently I started to have a cut out problem, took the bike to the dealer and they found the that some of alternator magnets had come loose. Solution is to upgrade the alternator to the 2024 version, expensive but under warrantee.
What I want a concrete answer to is, are the issues fixed? I know the OG Pan Ams had a lot of issues up until 22s, into the 23s it seemed to be getting better. I'm wondering if they've unf*cked the issues in 2024? Havent really heard anything, which is good. I keep looking at used since I can find 22s and sometimes 23s for 14-17,000 canadian, usually with low KMs, often under 2000kms. that sounds awesome on paper, but it also suggests losts of people had so many issues in those low KMs that they said screw it and trade for something else. Nearest dealership for me is 2.5 hours away, or 5 hours to get to Edmonton..... Its bad enough to have issues and need to get a bike across town. Living in northern alberta the roads are terrible, and this bike checks a lot of boxes for me. I really want it to be good lol One major factor is Payload as me and the wife together are around 440 lbs, which is pushing the limits but doable. Africa twin is just under 400 and I'm uneasy about pushing the limits too much. Thanks in advance
They fixed the charging circuit and battery issues. I don't think they did anything about the Fuel pump though. As far as two-up capacity, there are few bikes set up anymore for two-up other than glides and Goldwings. My wife and I easily exceed 450lbs.
@@ridingwithmarshall the struggle is real. I read a REALLY well written break down on the PAS year by year. Seems the fuel pump issues are speculated to be from the aluminum tank not being lined on the inside causing issues clogging up the pump(s). Like I said I really really wanna like this bike, but i cant be getting stranded, and if I might have to trade in my current bike, thus not having a back up would suck even more. And with the glise and road king going up in price*AGAIN in the case of the RK* they might be out.... We've got endless dirt roads up here, and some moderate ATV trails galore. Thats why a Big ADV checks a lot of boxes for me. If I get something like a Honda valkyrie, then I can get a mid sized ADV as Ill have a big ole bike to go on rides with the wife. But i DO want to get off the beaten trails too. the Tiger 1200 has an insanely high weight capacity and comes ready to rock, but its also 30 grand lol
@@CROCS.fit123 that is why I bought a Moto-Guzzi V85TT for off road. It was 11k I think, and I've been all over the northern Rockies of Colorado with it. I also have a dealer nearby though. Not nearly as powerful as the PA, but comfortable. I was riding dirt roads around my house yesterday. The Tiger 900 would be a good catch too. As far as Africa Twins, only one person I know that bought one still has it. I bought a used Goldwing to get my wife to Sturgis this year. No video, as my Sturgis videos seldom get any viewers.
True. Sonny Barger, former president of the Hell's Angels of Oakland (?) said it similar. Never buy the first year of a new model, and if Harley Davison, never the first TWO years.
@@ADVScott342 I prefer shaft drives too, all my bikes in the garage have them. The Pan America is probably the first time HD has used a chain since the 70s. Did the Street 750 and 500 have a chain? I don't remember.
03 Dresser, 05 Dresser, 08 Road King FLHP, living near Daytona FLO, since 1999 & been getten bit crowded with texting, cages, up to 32 graveyard, marble orchard resident friends, knowems, bar boozer, bikers from all types of accidents, but been in a cage for the past 10 years, but this Pan Am is interesting, but gonna give it another year till they get the bugs under control, see about a 2025 being 66yrs old, don't have the patients for fuel pump, battery, or wiring harness issues, but just might have to dust off the boots & give one a test ride, I almost bought a BMW GS, but not hurting for money, but couldn't bring myself to the $30k north, for 2 wheels; With that being said & being an impulse buyer, I'll stay clear of my many HD dealers within my area, being about 5 within a 30 mile radius. But nice looken sled & good demo!!
I thought the suspension was fine, no noticeable issues. I didn't single-track it, but there were no jaring bumps or transfer to my wrists. Comfortable. Just raise the bars before taking possession.
Thats a bunch of BS.... if there was an issue with harness or battery or fuel pump, there needs to be a recall and HD should fix it immediately at no charge to the customer as all other manufactures do.... no need to buy a 2024 to fix the issue.... BS
I've owned a few adventure bikes (2 africa twins, 2 super tenere 1200) among over 20 other bikes of all kinds. Currently have a DR650 as a lightweight dual sport, and a super tenere 1200 for the long distance touring stuff. When I feel like it's time to change, I might just give this Harley a try (it's actually the only Harley I'd consider buying, the few harleys I've tried in the past have been extremely disappointing (terribly overpriced for the weight, handling, suspension, brakes, etc). This Pan America is actually quite a decent proposition! Hats off to Harley for trying something different, it was about time, when you look at companies like Triumph that are addressing just about every motorcycle market possible...Harley had a very narrow lineup.
The engine is a thrill, the seat is comfortable, the looks are unique. The only two things keeping me away are 1. It's still a chain drive for the price. 2. Guess where the battery is? Go ahead, guess! It's right behind the front tire. Ride through a puddle. ..
Hi from England, I'm seriously thinking of Swapping my Vstrom 800 for a Pan America 2024 model which I've seen for sale my concern is the weight and manoeuvring it around cos they are a beast of a bike, has this been an issue for anyone, oh and great review ive heard about the issues with PA and it's reassuring they've addressed them.
Hey Marshall! I’m about to trade in my ‘23 Sportster S for a ‘23 Pan Am Special, mostly so i get more touring capabilities and some off-roading. Wanted to know if I should go ahead and ask Redstone H-D about the wiring thing you talked about in the beginning before pulling the trigger?
@@Diabeekei If it's a 24, it's a better bike. If it is before 2024, I would definitely get it refitted with the larger battery and charging system. It's actually not that odd for bikes to not charge the battery at idle, many bikes won't. I've seen dealers let bikes idle saying it's charging the battery, and that's an unreliable method. Battery tenders are your friend. Still, I would want my Pan America to be all that it can be.
@@ridingwithmarshall awesome brother, i checked out the 2023 one, i’ll try to see if they can do a 2024. If not, i’ll show them your message and go from there. Ride safe!
@@ridingwithmarshall hey Marsh! Just got her home, I went with a 23 Pan Am Special yellow white! Currently trying to figure out what battery to replace the stock one, i’m getting a u010000c fault code which looks like something you talked about
I should have put more humor in it, I'm known for that, but I haven't been very humorous lately. My day job wants my serious side, I think they are leading me away from myself. I have golden handcuffs though.
I actually liked that Harley, though the clutch seemed way to far out before it bit, is it adjustable? The adaptive suspension sold it for me over other adventure bikes. Well done Harley for catching up a quarter way through the 21st Century.
Hi Andrew, it's a cable clutch I believe. HD has been moving most bikes back to that (which concerns me because that used to be a weak point on HDs). I didn't try to adjust it, but I should have for the next guy. I agree, I've always said that "The Motor Company" is the last to the party with advancements, but the adaptive ride height is worth the price, and even Honda hasn't tried that yet.
I don’t know if all the bikes have adjustable levers but the one I test rode which was a 23 the windshield adjustable the levers are adjustable. The rear brake is adjustable. It’s got a center stand. It crash bars, and there anything you need that you usually have to pay as extras for other bikes. What I didn’t like about it and I don’t know where he gets that your foot doesn’t get hot, but my right foot got hotter than hell riding around town because that huge exhaust pipe is right there by it and the wind blows that heat back onto your leg. Other than that you could start out in third gear. It’s a powerful bike. Its different modes are awesome and don’t know, how it is on circles and turns, but it wouldn’t really made for that
Gosh... Things have changed. I stopped riding motorcycles when there were carburetors and when... and when we didn't say "I'm going to switch modes". This is an extraordinary piece of engineering. But I'm not sure it's really what riding a motorcycle is. Somehow it seems apt that the "off-road" section of this is some fairly smooth, utterly flat sand-covered, unmetalled road. The only bends are at junctions or paddled round, breathlessly on tip-toes. A very impressive toy, but it doesn't seem very... involving. I used to ride between the UK and the Western Balkans on a 350 or a 500, over the Alps and other ranges. It was just... lots of fun and very visceral and quite involving. I have a feeling that this machine would be much faster but less fun... and probably not as easy to fix by the roadside. 😮
@@BanjoLuke1 Being a brand new loaner, I couldn't ride it over Rollins Pass. The dealership is in Greeley Colorado where there is ... Nothing. There were plenty of Moab Utah Magazine videos at the bike's launch, but I get what I get during a short bike loan. Although there are plenty of videos of Pan America videos knee-deep in the mud, I wouldn't try it. The battery is placed all the way in the mud zone of the front tire. You are correct, a PA is not easy to work on roadside. In fact, the engine and transmission are all one piece, and when damage occurs, the whole thing has to come out of the bike. That's why my adventure bike of choice is the Moto Guzzi V85TT. What's to fix? I have bikes without ride modes. They do make a difference.
@@ridingwithmarshall Excellent answer. Incidentally, my bikes of choice (many years ago) were also Italian. Morini and Guzzi middleweights. I almost bought (1987) a V65TT, which would have spent almost 100% of its life on tarmac. I desired because it lacked the traditional linked brakes.... Clearly there was no need for them given the pretence of it being an off-roader, but in reality it wasn't one... I was a fan (for road use) of the original R80 G/S and at the tome I thought there'd never be a bigger off-roader. Some years later I tested a 750 Elefant... and I thought things would never get bigger.... Ha ha ha. Anyway... Your response is very fair. (But I still think these things are too big and clumsy for trail riding. A nice 4-stroke 400-500 single is a handful, but is manageable.... Also.... It is not so heavy when it (inevitably) hits the dirt or falls over into muddy water. And.... it is cheaper and easier to fix.
@@BanjoLuke1 I think the HD PA is a sign of our times, we expect one bike to do it all. BMW and KTM showed us it could be done, if you are a pro at riding heavy bikes through the mud. Everyone wishes they were a pro, so they buy these really tall heavy bikes. Then they sell them after a few hundred miles or they ride them only in pavement thereafter. HD says "Let's make a KTM (high compression) motor and take away the height anxiety with adaptive ride height. Ok, I like it. Still, would I take a $26k bike on single track 50 miles away from a town? I think using the right tool for the job got lost somewhere. Trailer in a 300cc thumper for the single track, and ride the heavy stuff on the concrete.
@ridingwithmarshall anyone that buys a big bore ADV bike, and plans to single track it, is an idiot. That's not what they're for. For as much as I respect the dual sport community, it seems pretty obvious that many don't understand bikes that they wouldn't personally buy. Many of us either can't afford, or don't have the room for multiple bikes and trailers, etc. If I could, I'd have one of everything. I have a Tiger 1200. I use it to commute to work and pick up groceries on the way home. I take my wife out on Sunday morning rides with it. I live in an urban setting. It's nearly two hours to the closest forest service road. I get there in comfort and have fun along the way, effortlessly passing anything in front of me. I've ridden for hours down washboard, potholed and partially deactivated roads, and found beautiful lakes to camp at and amazing alpine views. I wouldn't dream of taking a Gold Wing, Harley bagger or a ZX9 to these places. Just because you can't do hard enduro on something, doesn't make it a fail. I wouldn't want to ride a 300 cc dual sport for hours down a highway either. Different tools for different jobs.
Bought the CVO PA. Dropped it in the dirt maybe 5 rides in with soft-sided bags. Had to purchase new engine and exhaust guards, which will remain in boxes until I go to sell the bike. The bike is practical will go anywhere and is a thrill to ride. The extra cost to equip it the way I want justified the CVO price tag, too. (I also have a CVO Road Glide in legendary orange, and I’m a sucker for the matching Gunslinger paint job.) The one ever so slightly negative thing I have to say about the CVO is the phone mount. Rotate it 90 degrees sideways, take it off and replace the useless cradle with a standard case mount. The bike is brilliant!
That's impressive that the dealership let you take a brand new bike for a couple of hours...........not here, the dealership makes you ride with another bike (salesman) and it's about a 5 minute, pre-canned, ride.
The dealers around here know me, but in this case, it's a Demo bike provided for the purpose of test rides. Of the ADV bikes I've ridden, I like the Panamerica engine the best. The jury is still out though on the fuel pump issue. I don't live close enough to this dealer to risk killing a fuel pump and getting it towed to them. Heat is always an issue with Harleys. I need to ride it on a 90 degree day to see how bad it gets.
Harley-Davidson dealership did not have the bike I wanted to purchase or even test drive went in there to ride a Street Glide Max or a Road Glide Max they said they didn't have any was really looking forward to test ride the new stroked Pan America style motor with 150 horse and 150 torque with swirl combustion so good run regular fuel so I asked him about the lowrider ST Maxx they don't seem to be available either can anybody tell me when the new bikes will come out not getting any younger
I can't even find anything on Google about a Maxx. I would be surprised if they put a Pan America engine in a Glide, as it would rub the Harley PushV-rod faithful the wrong way. The Pan America doesn't sound anything like a typical M8 or twin cam. However, I sure would be interested!
I have the 2023, vivid black, fabulous bike... no issues. I've tricked it out... better skid plate, quick shifter, medallions, sundowner saddle, USB charger. I wouldn't touch the 2021 nor 2022. The 2023 and 2024 fixed quite a number of minor issues. marvus
@ridingwithmarshall , sorry, I did not put risers on the bike. You need to be careful. There are a LOT of cables that just won't stretch more than about an inch and a half AT MOST. I don't have a brand recommend. marcus
I love the looks of this bike. If I didn't own an FXLRS, I would be very tempted to buy one! 150hp! Come on! Harley really needs this bike to work for many reasons. Money is only part of it.
Unfortunately for Harley an the folks that bought the earlier PA . We got the shaft . Now even though the 24 is better. The brand has been burned. I'll wait a couple years an pick up a used 24
I bought a new Yamaha Tenere 700 it's only 468lbs wet and Yamaha has hardy any maintenance issues. Yamaha wins races all over the world and this is the adventure bike.
@@gpl422sda I love the Super Tenere. I'd get one as a daily rider if I didn't have the garage bay full already. I just ran into another Pan America owner whose engine blendered. His fuel pump before that.
I noticed it a lot on the earlier models. I tried feeling it on this one, and didn't. Instead, hear rose straight up the tank. They may have switched to a thicker exhaust pipe, because I distinctly remember my leg baking on the one I rode a few years ago.
That dealership will be gone before you know it. They don’t meet HD’s dealership plan. It’s not 650000 sq.ft. No amusement park, bar, sauna or hotel. HD had to listen to the customers who said fix this POS or you’ll never get another dime! In all seriousness, they had to fix future iterations. The warranty claims and owner reviews were going to bury the bike. Unfortunately, not sure the image damage can be reversed will reverse sales.
Awesome video.. It’s a love hate relationship with this bike! I have a 22” with 21,000 it’s been through 5 fuel pump replacements under warranty upon other issues.. After all that the engine lost 75% power now at the shop! They definitely need to work things out .. most modern bikes are having similar issues…they also lose 45% of their value.
You are completely wrong about the fuel pump, there is no voltage to the pump when the motorcycle is off, I have checked it on a 22 after watching on your youtube channel, also the exact same pump is on a 24
I would definitely not say no to one as it seems like quite a good bike but it sure is ugly. Why don't they just build a ADV that looks like one and not like a throwback to a cruiser which it's not. Just let it go and embrace what it is .Could have been so much better.
I've grown to like the looks, just as I've grown to like the looks of the BMW 1250 GS. I thought that asymmetrical headlight on the BMW was the stupidest thing I've seen, but it grew on me. I like the simple sleekness of the Pan America. Now if you want UGLY, look at my Moto-Guzzi V85TT from the front. That's one bike that I didn't buy for the looks though.
I disagree. Folks come up to me routinely (virtually every time I'm out) and comment on what a great looking bike, what is it, where to get it, etc. I must agree that the orange combo color is butt ugly. The grey, pearly, and vivid black, like mine, is hot; great looking bike. And one more thing, the other ADV bikes have that ridiculous useless "beak" 🙄 Aauuugh. marcus
Heat would be the worst issues. Not on a 65 degree day . Ride it on a 85 + degree day. Both of the bikes i have ,no heat problems when its 65 ,85+ is when the heat really shows up. Im sure the Pan America is no different.
I’m hoping they sorted out those pesky issues because I’ve liked this bike from the start..looks unique to the other bug faced adv’s…bmw 1250 was great but they ruined it w the 1300 imo..and it’s $30k!
@@christopherw4527 I'm not a fan of HD dealers as a whole, or even the company. Most dealers charge $500 to $750 setup. We are just lucky this dealer doesn't charge the $3000 premium fees and $1000 reconditioning fees of other HD dealers.
@@ridingwithmarshall I'm about your age. Had bikes for decades. Uncle owned a dealership up till the early 80's. I was in the trucking industry, and still follow it. I try to tell younger people not to be victims of romantic purchases. Look at what they charge for labor, then if you have a small amount of mechanical ability....You'll instantly understand the scam of 1000 bucks for the setup fee. I don't mind the setup fee. I do mind the dishonesty. If they would only not shady about the whole thing I wouldn't care.
@@christopherw4527I would negotiate it the setup either down or off. John Elway HD is the only one that posts all the fees up front though. Usually, I find the fees on the very last paper I sign. You are SO right about emotional purchases. Most HD dealers count on it!
@@ridingwithmarshall Yes they do count on the emotional mess. I always ask why be loyal to a company? What makes a company anyway? Well the truth is that it is the investors. In Harley's case, they hired a unshaven hipster German of all people. It it not an American Company truth be known. No matter who owns stock, look at those in charge and you'll have your company. I do my homework before buying a new bike. Then it is a simple matter just to walk in or call a salesman. Have the most you'll pay as the hill you die on. I don't know about Greely being the ONLY dealership that posts that right up front. What is wild is that I can buy a Pan America cheaper in Florida. Take into account that we don't have a sales tax here in Montana. I'm including pick up or shipping too. I like Dennison's canned chili, but I'm not about to wear a shirt stating that.
@@ridingwithmarshall Just telling them what you will pay, making certain that you are honest with them and yourself that you are an absolute serious buyer. No need to waste everyone's time.
That’s a very specialty bike designed for a microscopic percentage of riders. Besides, Honda’s Africa-Twin can kick its ass in just about every category. The skills needed to operate these kind of motorcycles off-road is pretty rare. And now it’s strictly a CVO model? That’s pretty stupid just plain stupid. What a waste of money. HOWEVER; if you are one of those rare, truly skilled off-road adventurers, my apologies, not withstanding my comment about the Africa Twin.
Great video. I traded in my 2022 BMW R1250 GS for a 2024 BMW R1250 GSA this year before I had even thought about test riding one of these. Wish I would have now. I have been riding adventure bikes since 2020 and my main reason for switching to the GS is because of the shaft drive. I really don't like chain maintenance especially since I am a long distance multi-day rider and at the end of a long day the last thing I want to do is mess with a chain. If Harley went that route I am sure they could get even more people to switch. I did pick up a 2024 Road Glide this year and absolutely love that bike.
Great Vid, im a proud pan am owner in kuala lumpur Malaysia
I have a 21 Pan America, and it is absolutely amazing. I got mine late in 2021, and I have had virtually no issues. There have been a few software updates early on to fix some minor issues, but this bike has been a dream and a lot of fun to own. I do believe the PA is very underrated and the new BMW GS is a little overrated. Either way, if you are in the market for a large adventure bike you will need to test ride a Harley, BMW, Honda, Ducati and KTM and any other contender and buy what fits you best. I did this, all of the other bikes were awesome, I almost bought an Africa Twin, but one ride on the PA and I was sold. I have no regrets. Buy something and get out and ride.
Honestly, having just ridden the new BMW 1300GS, I like the Harley engine much more. I'm kinda over chain pulling though, because I'm lazy, but my next adventure bike will probably be the AT or HD anyway.
I am glad to hear this. I have been pricing some used Pan Ams. There is very little info to be found on the long term reliability on these bikes.
Thanks for your commentary. We recently purchased a '21 Pan American. I plan on using it as an IBA runner and a test model as I have rented one for an Alps tour. Thanks for your straight forward way. You have been a bright spot in my research. Be safe. Happy Motoring.
i just a 2024 PAN AM CVO and i love it thanks for sharing important info on the 24 year model!!!
I want a CVO PA!! Do you love it?
I just rented a 2022 Pan America and rode it around the Smokey Mtns and North Georgia (Suches area). It is an AMAZING motorcycle! I currently own a Street Glide Special with a 131 Big Bore. Very different motorcycles. Each has it own unique ride and vibe. For long trips and just cruising, the SGS is the choice. For everything else, the Pan America, especially in the twisties. I'm 5'7" on a good day and had no issues. Wish they would come out with a 900cc though.
100% on getting a 24. I have a 22 and love it, and have not had any major issues. The bike is outstanding. The only issue I have is that a two year old Harleyd epreciated 14k. I was not expecting that. Ride safe.
Very nice video, I enjoyed watching it.
Great point about upfront pricing..............High Desert HD in Meridian, Idaho is like that, NO PRICE TAGS.............and then they charge enormous setup fees; very sleazy.
I have my eyes set on a 2023 Pan American that l can get for a great deal, but after seeing your video where you talk about previous models issues, l am not sure what to do.
@@gunnsteinnjonsson9166 you can retrofit it, but it will cost more.
@ridingwithmarshall thanks for your reply. Can l ask what retro fit means? The 2023 Pan American that l am looking at has onky 300 miles on it is selling for 20.000 Canadian dollars or 16.000 US which l thought was a great deal until l saw all these negative revies. I really wanted to find a good review so l could justify buying this bike, but l honestly didn't find any.
@gunnsteinnjonsson9166 The battery, stator, and charging circuit should all be replaced with the 2024 kit. The dealer can do it.
No way would I buy one of these new. My buddy just picked one up with less than a 100 miles on it for half what a new one cost. One or two year old Pan Americans are going for $10k - $12k with very low miles.
@@JA-zh5xi Just watch out for the engineering flaws pointed out in this video. I won't buy a pre-2024.
@ I hear you! I’ll stick with my 24 ultra limited. 😀
Most all the HD dealers in my area do not hang prices on their bikes
@@SeanFisk Most HD dealers will rip you off starting with price, all the way to a reconditioning fee or a dealer premium.
@ sad. Really like that pan America too. Thank you
I brought a 2022 Pan Am Special, in March 2023, it gets ridden mostly every day. I did have the have the draining battery problem, I think it was more that he battery was sitting flat for 1 year and the battery was dodge. Recently I started to have a cut out problem, took the bike to the dealer and they found the that some of alternator magnets had come loose. Solution is to upgrade the alternator to the 2024 version, expensive but under warrantee.
@@hughmac7423 good information, thank you!
What I want a concrete answer to is, are the issues fixed?
I know the OG Pan Ams had a lot of issues up until 22s, into the 23s it seemed to be getting better. I'm wondering if they've unf*cked the issues in 2024? Havent really heard anything, which is good. I keep looking at used since I can find 22s and sometimes 23s for 14-17,000 canadian, usually with low KMs, often under 2000kms. that sounds awesome on paper, but it also suggests losts of people had so many issues in those low KMs that they said screw it and trade for something else. Nearest dealership for me is 2.5 hours away, or 5 hours to get to Edmonton..... Its bad enough to have issues and need to get a bike across town.
Living in northern alberta the roads are terrible, and this bike checks a lot of boxes for me. I really want it to be good lol One major factor is Payload as me and the wife together are around 440 lbs, which is pushing the limits but doable. Africa twin is just under 400 and I'm uneasy about pushing the limits too much.
Thanks in advance
They fixed the charging circuit and battery issues. I don't think they did anything about the Fuel pump though. As far as two-up capacity, there are few bikes set up anymore for two-up other than glides and Goldwings. My wife and I easily exceed 450lbs.
@@ridingwithmarshall the struggle is real. I read a REALLY well written break down on the PAS year by year. Seems the fuel pump issues are speculated to be from the aluminum tank not being lined on the inside causing issues clogging up the pump(s).
Like I said I really really wanna like this bike, but i cant be getting stranded, and if I might have to trade in my current bike, thus not having a back up would suck even more.
And with the glise and road king going up in price*AGAIN in the case of the RK* they might be out....
We've got endless dirt roads up here, and some moderate ATV trails galore. Thats why a Big ADV checks a lot of boxes for me. If I get something like a Honda valkyrie, then I can get a mid sized ADV as Ill have a big ole bike to go on rides with the wife. But i DO want to get off the beaten trails too. the Tiger 1200 has an insanely high weight capacity and comes ready to rock, but its also 30 grand lol
@@CROCS.fit123 that is why I bought a Moto-Guzzi V85TT for off road. It was 11k I think, and I've been all over the northern Rockies of Colorado with it. I also have a dealer nearby though. Not nearly as powerful as the PA, but comfortable. I was riding dirt roads around my house yesterday. The Tiger 900 would be a good catch too. As far as Africa Twins, only one person I know that bought one still has it.
I bought a used Goldwing to get my wife to Sturgis this year. No video, as my Sturgis videos seldom get any viewers.
Fair value or not I just can't afford one. Wish they'd come out with a 975 or something.
Rule of thumb, never buy a new model Harley or one with a new engine design until the 3rd or 4th year of production.
True. Sonny Barger, former president of the Hell's Angels of Oakland (?) said it similar. Never buy the first year of a new model, and if Harley Davison, never the first TWO years.
The motor is a non Issue on this bike it’s everything else lol
@@ridingwithmarshallAlways live by the word of a Hell's Angel. 😂
They've a lot of electronic issue's and Harley doesn't want to fix them under warranty.
Never buy any first edition of anything.
Bound to be bugs
Be nice to see a shaft drive version, but nice bike none the less.
@@ADVScott342 I prefer shaft drives too, all my bikes in the garage have them. The Pan America is probably the first time HD has used a chain since the 70s. Did the Street 750 and 500 have a chain? I don't remember.
03 Dresser, 05 Dresser, 08 Road King FLHP, living near Daytona FLO, since 1999 & been getten bit crowded with texting, cages, up to 32 graveyard, marble orchard resident friends, knowems, bar boozer, bikers from all types of accidents, but been in a cage for the past 10 years, but this Pan Am is interesting, but gonna give it another year till they get the bugs under control, see about a 2025 being 66yrs old, don't have the patients for fuel pump, battery, or wiring harness issues, but just might have to dust off the boots & give one a test ride, I almost bought a BMW GS, but not hurting for money, but couldn't bring myself to the $30k north, for 2 wheels; With that being said & being an impulse buyer, I'll stay clear of my many HD dealers within my area, being about 5 within a 30 mile radius. But nice looken sled & good demo!!
Great review, I’ve been considering one of these and you made it very appealing…
How is the suspension ? How did it ride? Compressed spine issues?
I thought the suspension was fine, no noticeable issues. I didn't single-track it, but there were no jaring bumps or transfer to my wrists. Comfortable. Just raise the bars before taking possession.
Thats a bunch of BS.... if there was an issue with harness or battery or fuel pump, there needs to be a recall and HD should fix it immediately at no charge to the customer as all other manufactures do.... no need to buy a 2024 to fix the issue.... BS
$40,000 equivalent in India whereas a R1300GS is $32,000 equivalent. The most expensive in the segment here. I hope they make a 975cc version of it
@@seauryakumar And you get a shaft drive with the BMW.
Is this not the cvo? Or is color and hard luggage the only difference?I'm hoping to have just one motorcycle vs three 😂
@@snipsdraper7537 I didn't think the demo bike was the CVO. I seem to recall that came out later.
I've owned a few adventure bikes (2 africa twins, 2 super tenere 1200) among over 20 other bikes of all kinds. Currently have a DR650 as a lightweight dual sport, and a super tenere 1200 for the long distance touring stuff. When I feel like it's time to change, I might just give this Harley a try (it's actually the only Harley I'd consider buying, the few harleys I've tried in the past have been extremely disappointing (terribly overpriced for the weight, handling, suspension, brakes, etc). This Pan America is actually quite a decent proposition! Hats off to Harley for trying something different, it was about time, when you look at companies like Triumph that are addressing just about every motorcycle market possible...Harley had a very narrow lineup.
The engine is a thrill, the seat is comfortable, the looks are unique. The only two things keeping me away are 1. It's still a chain drive for the price. 2. Guess where the battery is? Go ahead, guess! It's right behind the front tire. Ride through a puddle. ..
Hi from England, I'm seriously thinking of Swapping my Vstrom 800 for a Pan America 2024 model which I've seen for sale my concern is the weight and manoeuvring it around cos they are a beast of a bike, has this been an issue for anyone, oh and great review ive heard about the issues with PA and it's reassuring they've addressed them.
@@palerider8992 They are a little top heavy, but very controllable.
Hey Marshall! I’m about to trade in my ‘23 Sportster S for a ‘23 Pan Am Special, mostly so i get more touring capabilities and some off-roading. Wanted to know if I should go ahead and ask Redstone H-D about the wiring thing you talked about in the beginning before pulling the trigger?
@@Diabeekei If it's a 24, it's a better bike. If it is before 2024, I would definitely get it refitted with the larger battery and charging system. It's actually not that odd for bikes to not charge the battery at idle, many bikes won't. I've seen dealers let bikes idle saying it's charging the battery, and that's an unreliable method. Battery tenders are your friend. Still, I would want my Pan America to be all that it can be.
@@ridingwithmarshall awesome brother, i checked out the 2023 one, i’ll try to see if they can do a 2024. If not, i’ll show them your message and go from there. Ride safe!
@@ridingwithmarshall hey Marsh! Just got her home, I went with a 23 Pan Am Special yellow white! Currently trying to figure out what battery to replace the stock one, i’m getting a u010000c fault code which looks like something you talked about
@@Diabeekei uh oh! Already? You'll have to google that one, but charge the battery!
@@ridingwithmarshall most definitely!
Quick shifter?
If not, shouldn’t that be standard for that price?
Great video Marshall 👍🏼🍻😎 ! Glad to hear the issues are being addressed 👍🏼 can’t ask for less from HD with such an investment 👍🏼
I should have put more humor in it, I'm known for that, but I haven't been very humorous lately. My day job wants my serious side, I think they are leading me away from myself. I have golden handcuffs though.
Only got the first 1k on mine. Already had to replace a tire. Nails stink. Gonna run the hell out of it. Btw a steelership is in Sandusky OH.
I actually liked that Harley, though the clutch seemed way to far out before it bit, is it adjustable? The adaptive suspension sold it for me over other adventure bikes. Well done Harley for catching up a quarter way through the 21st Century.
Hi Andrew, it's a cable clutch I believe. HD has been moving most bikes back to that (which concerns me because that used to be a weak point on HDs). I didn't try to adjust it, but I should have for the next guy.
I agree, I've always said that "The Motor Company" is the last to the party with advancements, but the adaptive ride height is worth the price, and even Honda hasn't tried that yet.
I don’t know if all the bikes have adjustable levers but the one I test rode which was a 23 the windshield adjustable the levers are adjustable. The rear brake is adjustable. It’s got a center stand. It crash bars, and there anything you need that you usually have to pay as extras for other bikes. What I didn’t like about it and I don’t know where he gets that your foot doesn’t get hot, but my right foot got hotter than hell riding around town because that huge exhaust pipe is right there by it and the wind blows that heat back onto your leg. Other than that you could start out in third gear. It’s a powerful bike. Its different modes are awesome and don’t know, how it is on circles and turns, but it wouldn’t really made for that
Very nice Bike, good review 👍
It's my favorite full-size ADV and I hope to own one someday. The kickstand is the only thing I don't like about it.
You can trust the kickstand, just takes some getting used to.
It’s a great kickstand. No issues.
Gosh... Things have changed.
I stopped riding motorcycles when there were carburetors and when... and when we didn't say "I'm going to switch modes".
This is an extraordinary piece of engineering. But I'm not sure it's really what riding a motorcycle is.
Somehow it seems apt that the "off-road" section of this is some fairly smooth, utterly flat sand-covered, unmetalled road.
The only bends are at junctions or paddled round, breathlessly on tip-toes.
A very impressive toy, but it doesn't seem very... involving.
I used to ride between the UK and the Western Balkans on a 350 or a 500, over the Alps and other ranges. It was just... lots of fun and very visceral and quite involving.
I have a feeling that this machine would be much faster but less fun... and probably not as easy to fix by the roadside. 😮
@@BanjoLuke1 Being a brand new loaner, I couldn't ride it over Rollins Pass. The dealership is in Greeley Colorado where there is ... Nothing. There were plenty of Moab Utah Magazine videos at the bike's launch, but I get what I get during a short bike loan.
Although there are plenty of videos of Pan America videos knee-deep in the mud, I wouldn't try it. The battery is placed all the way in the mud zone of the front tire.
You are correct, a PA is not easy to work on roadside. In fact, the engine and transmission are all one piece, and when damage occurs, the whole thing has to come out of the bike. That's why my adventure bike of choice is the Moto Guzzi V85TT. What's to fix?
I have bikes without ride modes. They do make a difference.
@@ridingwithmarshall Excellent answer. Incidentally, my bikes of choice (many years ago) were also Italian. Morini and Guzzi middleweights. I almost bought (1987) a V65TT, which would have spent almost 100% of its life on tarmac. I desired because it lacked the traditional linked brakes.... Clearly there was no need for them given the pretence of it being an off-roader, but in reality it wasn't one...
I was a fan (for road use) of the original R80 G/S and at the tome I thought there'd never be a bigger off-roader.
Some years later I tested a 750 Elefant... and I thought things would never get bigger....
Ha ha ha.
Anyway... Your response is very fair.
(But I still think these things are too big and clumsy for trail riding. A nice 4-stroke 400-500 single is a handful, but is manageable....
Also.... It is not so heavy when it (inevitably) hits the dirt or falls over into muddy water.
And.... it is cheaper and easier to fix.
@@BanjoLuke1 I think the HD PA is a sign of our times, we expect one bike to do it all. BMW and KTM showed us it could be done, if you are a pro at riding heavy bikes through the mud. Everyone wishes they were a pro, so they buy these really tall heavy bikes. Then they sell them after a few hundred miles or they ride them only in pavement thereafter. HD says "Let's make a KTM (high compression) motor and take away the height anxiety with adaptive ride height. Ok, I like it. Still, would I take a $26k bike on single track 50 miles away from a town? I think using the right tool for the job got lost somewhere. Trailer in a 300cc thumper for the single track, and ride the heavy stuff on the concrete.
@ridingwithmarshall anyone that buys a big bore ADV bike, and plans to single track it, is an idiot. That's not what they're for. For as much as I respect the dual sport community, it seems pretty obvious that many don't understand bikes that they wouldn't personally buy. Many of us either can't afford, or don't have the room for multiple bikes and trailers, etc. If I could, I'd have one of everything. I have a Tiger 1200. I use it to commute to work and pick up groceries on the way home. I take my wife out on Sunday morning rides with it. I live in an urban setting. It's nearly two hours to the closest forest service road. I get there in comfort and have fun along the way, effortlessly passing anything in front of me. I've ridden for hours down washboard, potholed and partially deactivated roads, and found beautiful lakes to camp at and amazing alpine views. I wouldn't dream of taking a Gold Wing, Harley bagger or a ZX9 to these places. Just because you can't do hard enduro on something, doesn't make it a fail. I wouldn't want to ride a 300 cc dual sport for hours down a highway either. Different tools for different jobs.
Bought the CVO PA. Dropped it in the dirt maybe 5 rides in with soft-sided bags. Had to purchase new engine and exhaust guards, which will remain in boxes until I go to sell the bike. The bike is practical will go anywhere and is a thrill to ride. The extra cost to equip it the way I want justified the CVO price tag, too. (I also have a CVO Road Glide in legendary orange, and I’m a sucker for the matching Gunslinger paint job.) The one ever so slightly negative thing I have to say about the CVO is the phone mount. Rotate it 90 degrees sideways, take it off and replace the useless cradle with a standard case mount. The bike is brilliant!
What is your instep measurement? I loved the bike but it was a little too tall even with adaptable ride height
My jeans are 32 inches, but my real inseam is 31. Let's go with 31.
They are tall, but the kickstand leans the bike way over to get on and off.
That's impressive that the dealership let you take a brand new bike for a couple of hours...........not here, the dealership makes you ride with another bike (salesman) and it's about a 5 minute, pre-canned, ride.
The dealers around here know me, but in this case, it's a Demo bike provided for the purpose of test rides. Of the ADV bikes I've ridden, I like the Panamerica engine the best. The jury is still out though on the fuel pump issue. I don't live close enough to this dealer to risk killing a fuel pump and getting it towed to them. Heat is always an issue with Harleys. I need to ride it on a 90 degree day to see how bad it gets.
Harley-Davidson dealership did not have the bike I wanted to purchase or even test drive went in there to ride a Street Glide Max or a Road Glide Max they said they didn't have any was really looking forward to test ride the new stroked Pan America style motor with 150 horse and 150 torque with swirl combustion so good run regular fuel so I asked him about the lowrider ST Maxx they don't seem to be available either can anybody tell me when the new bikes will come out not getting any younger
I can't even find anything on Google about a Maxx. I would be surprised if they put a Pan America engine in a Glide, as it would rub the Harley PushV-rod faithful the wrong way. The Pan America doesn't sound anything like a typical M8 or twin cam. However, I sure would be interested!
I have the 2023, vivid black, fabulous bike... no issues.
I've tricked it out... better skid plate, quick shifter, medallions, sundowner saddle, USB charger.
I wouldn't touch the 2021 nor 2022. The 2023 and 2024 fixed quite a number of minor issues.
marvus
Did you raise the bars? If so, what brand?
@ridingwithmarshall , sorry, I did not put risers on the bike.
You need to be careful. There are a LOT of cables that just won't stretch more than about an inch and a half AT MOST.
I don't have a brand recommend.
marcus
Why would I buy a motorcycle from a company whose management despise me? They expect DEI marketing to save them so let's see how that works out.
@@Comm0ut I'll bet they change CEOs soon
@@ridingwithmarshall Not until proxy vote by shareholders next spring of 2025.
I love the looks of this bike. If I didn't own an FXLRS, I would be very tempted to buy one! 150hp! Come on!
Harley really needs this bike to work for many reasons. Money is only part of it.
@@robbyclark6915 I'd like one myself, if they have the fuel pump issue sorted. I didn't want to be in the middle of Wyoming and have the pump die.
Unfortunately for Harley an the folks that bought the earlier PA . We got the shaft . Now even though the 24 is better. The brand has been burned. I'll wait a couple years an pick up a used 24
It sounds like twin Kawasaki KLR!
@@crockett11000 True. It sounds nothing like an HD. I'm fact, I think they stole from KTM's playbook to get that high compression engine.
I bought a new Yamaha Tenere 700 it's only 468lbs wet and Yamaha has hardy any maintenance issues. Yamaha wins races all over the world and this is the adventure bike.
@@gpl422sda I love the Super Tenere. I'd get one as a daily rider if I didn't have the garage bay full already.
I just ran into another Pan America owner whose engine blendered. His fuel pump before that.
How tall are you?
@@scottgriswold6911 5' 10"
I test rode the bike twice and i noticed a lot of heat coming from the exhaust. Nobody talks about that
I noticed it a lot on the earlier models. I tried feeling it on this one, and didn't. Instead, hear rose straight up the tank. They may have switched to a thicker exhaust pipe, because I distinctly remember my leg baking on the one I rode a few years ago.
@@ridingwithmarshall i understand now. I live in Europe and 24 models are not available yet i only tested 21 and 22
@@lespartiate5438 It's a problem on the older models. They revised the heatshield that surrounds the catalytic converter.
i sold my honda for a pan america and regret it lol
lol
That dealership will be gone before you know it. They don’t meet HD’s dealership plan. It’s not 650000 sq.ft. No amusement park, bar, sauna or hotel.
HD had to listen to the customers who said fix this POS or you’ll never get another dime!
In all seriousness, they had to fix future iterations. The warranty claims and owner reviews were going to bury the bike. Unfortunately, not sure the image damage can be reversed will reverse sales.
Resale value is what concerns me.
Going to be made in Thailand from here on out.
Good job brother!
Thank you!!
Awesome video..
It’s a love hate relationship with this bike! I have a 22” with 21,000 it’s been through 5 fuel pump replacements under warranty upon other issues.. After all that the engine lost 75% power now at the shop! They definitely need to work things out .. most modern bikes are having similar issues…they also lose 45% of their value.
I'm sorry to hear that! Wow! I'm sorry! I only buy metric bikes anymore, and all I do is change the oil and tires.
You are completely wrong about the fuel pump, there is no voltage to the pump when the motorcycle is off, I have checked it on a 22 after watching on your youtube channel, also the exact same pump is on a 24
Sounds like it will have the exact same problem then.
Should have moved the seat up would have been much better
I would definitely not say no to one as it seems like quite a good bike but it sure is ugly. Why don't they just build a ADV that looks like one and not like a throwback to a cruiser which it's not. Just let it go and embrace what it is .Could have been so much better.
I've grown to like the looks, just as I've grown to like the looks of the BMW 1250 GS. I thought that asymmetrical headlight on the BMW was the stupidest thing I've seen, but it grew on me. I like the simple sleekness of the Pan America. Now if you want UGLY, look at my Moto-Guzzi V85TT from the front. That's one bike that I didn't buy for the looks though.
I disagree. Folks come up to me routinely (virtually every time I'm out) and comment on what a great looking bike, what is it, where to get it, etc.
I must agree that the orange combo color is butt ugly. The grey, pearly, and vivid black, like mine, is hot; great looking bike.
And one more thing, the other ADV bikes have that ridiculous useless "beak" 🙄
Aauuugh.
marcus
@@markh.harris9271
Duck quack quack bike's are ugly. The panamerica is beautiful
Heat would be the worst issues. Not on a 65 degree day . Ride it on a 85 + degree day. Both of the bikes i have ,no heat problems when its 65 ,85+ is when the heat really shows up. Im sure the Pan America is no different.
I’m hoping they sorted out those pesky issues because I’ve liked this bike from the start..looks unique to the other bug faced adv’s…bmw 1250 was great but they ruined it w the 1300 imo..and it’s $30k!
I would take the Pan America over the BMW now.
That’s a good looking color.
The Pan America is the best bike in Harley's stable
decades of 103's, eh?...thats pretty good, and if I have to explain it...
I meant twin cams. I don't have a script writer, this stuff is on the fly.
1000.00 dollars prep fee? BS. No way.
@@christopherw4527 I'm not a fan of HD dealers as a whole, or even the company. Most dealers charge $500 to $750 setup. We are just lucky this dealer doesn't charge the $3000 premium fees and $1000 reconditioning fees of other HD dealers.
@@ridingwithmarshall I'm about your age. Had bikes for decades. Uncle owned a dealership up till the early 80's. I was in the trucking industry, and still follow it. I try to tell younger people not to be victims of romantic purchases. Look at what they charge for labor, then if you have a small amount of mechanical ability....You'll instantly understand the scam of 1000 bucks for the setup fee. I don't mind the setup fee. I do mind the dishonesty. If they would only not shady about the whole thing I wouldn't care.
@@christopherw4527I would negotiate it the setup either down or off. John Elway HD is the only one that posts all the fees up front though. Usually, I find the fees on the very last paper I sign. You are SO right about emotional purchases. Most HD dealers count on it!
@@ridingwithmarshall Yes they do count on the emotional mess. I always ask why be loyal to a company? What makes a company anyway? Well the truth is that it is the investors. In Harley's case, they hired a unshaven hipster German of all people. It it not an American Company truth be known. No matter who owns stock, look at those in charge and you'll have your company.
I do my homework before buying a new bike. Then it is a simple matter just to walk in or call a salesman. Have the most you'll pay as the hill you die on. I don't know about Greely being the ONLY dealership that posts that right up front. What is wild is that I can buy a Pan America cheaper in Florida. Take into account that we don't have a sales tax here in Montana. I'm including pick up or shipping too.
I like Dennison's canned chili, but I'm not about to wear a shirt stating that.
@@ridingwithmarshall Just telling them what you will pay, making certain that you are honest with them and yourself that you are an absolute serious buyer. No need to waste everyone's time.
That’s a very specialty bike designed for a microscopic percentage of riders. Besides, Honda’s Africa-Twin can kick its ass in just about every category. The skills needed to operate these kind of motorcycles off-road is pretty rare. And now it’s strictly a CVO model? That’s pretty stupid just plain stupid. What a waste of money. HOWEVER; if you are one of those rare, truly skilled off-road adventurers, my apologies, not withstanding my comment about the Africa Twin.
It's pretty rich of HD to do that. Like stealing money.
How tall are you?
5 foot 10