The discussion about Nate sitting on the front, keeping others from taking up the pacemaking , reminded me of a line in the movie ‘Moneyball’, “when your opponent is making mistakes, don’t interrupt him”
There was some silliness involved that resulted in two PV (I was one) and two Cognition riders getting dropped before you started recording. We spent 20 minutes chasing you guys and made it back right around the feed zone. By then the Sierra Nevada guy had already rolled off the front.
How did you guys get dropped? Maybe if you were on then the Sierra Nevada guy wouldn't have rolled off. I thought that was strange! That makes more sense now. - Nate
TrainerRoad At some point the group surged and the four of us let a gap open on purpose thinking it would force others to come around. Plot twist, it turns out there wasn’t actually anyone behind us. Oops.
I was watching this and thinking: "Why is he attacking from the front?" and "Wouldn't he be better off holding back and doing a monster counter attack from behind when the group lulls back to 20mph?". Nate had the physical ability to win on a course suited to his athletic profile, definitely. Bummer but great learning opportunity.
I love watching these breakdowns. Helps provide Insight for future races. Between these and the podcast, I learn so much. Thank you. So many parts of this video look more like a casual group ride.
Wouldn't call this a race :D Tip: if you wan't to get off the front, then just stop pedalling, coast and pull over to one side. Eventually the others have to go past you.
amazing that this kind of racing exists. I'm from belgium and races are just never below 25 mph. This makes racing a bit inaccessible for most people. It's great for people in us and uk that they can just hop on a bike and battle it out.
The 35+ age group is small and all the fast guys traveled to Colorado for Masters Road Nationals that weekend. We got passed by the 45+ field on the second lap and by the 55+ group at the very end of the race.
Back in the day, when I was WAY over-trained as a Cat4, we always practiced SKILLS, especially riding very close and very fast. We even practiced bumping elbows. What I see lacking, is COOPERATION, i.e., riding close together and working together to maintain a high pace. I'm seeing a lot of SURGING, and low-effort "counter-attacks" that go nowhere.... I think you'd ALL do better, to ride together more in the middle of the race, especially on small-field, open courses like this one.... And sure, I'd have all the latest techie gear, but you also have to learn how to listen to your body. You will ALWAYS get some "adrenaline boost" just from the energy of the race itself. Good video, KEEP RIDING!
You really think you're funny, don't you? Look, I'm sorry that you had such shitty parents, but it doesn't help you to prove it in public.And starting bullshit like you have, and thinking you're being funny, or ironic, or whatever you think you're doing, only takes away from these excellent videos. Obviously, you're the kind of asshole that hooks other riders in the peleton....
@@silentumexcubitor6747 i mean its a race, there doesnt have to be cooperation. if i can get in a crit and fuck up the cooperation and keep it chill thats better for me. repeated 10sec surges? right in my wheel house. sustained 4-5min vo2max efforts? not my forte. will i sit top 5 and refuse to pull through? absolutely. ya know why? it betters my chances for a result. surging takes off weak rides, removes their ability to attack at the end of a race when all those surges have finally caught up with them. even more so in small fields where you dont have 80 guys to follow moves for you. if you know your competition is guys like nate who have a really good ftp and a pretty solid sprint you better believe im gonna make him do all the work and try and weaken him before the end. explain to me how EVERYONE does better, when only one person can win a race? faster finish time? lower overall normalized power? sure maybe you keep it lower or quicker, but maybe that doesnt suit everyones strengths just like i dont do well with prolonged vo2 efforts. races are dynamic, and unless youve got a team and power for days sitting on the front riding threshold is stupid if youre a solo rider as nate is in this race. he replied with the current meme because your comment is dated, and while that may work for some even in this age of cycling its not really followed untill you get to upper cats where everyones got fairly strong team mates and roles where they can afford to burn matches just riding on the front. dont get upset by it, or atleast have something better then punk to come back with.
I've been in a slow crit where no one wants to work. Is the idea to just pick some times when the group slows and attack from the back, hoping to get away solo or to at least damage the field a bit? As a cat 5, I worry that I'm going to blow myself up, but at least it won't be as frustrating.
Slow race is not the time to attempt a break away unless you are actually much stronger than the whole group. When the race is slow everybody feels good and I'll jump on your wheel no problem.
Don't really understand the point about the guy coasting back into the group and not letting him back up (not the lone guy, the breakway dude). Can someone explain?
There was no gap at beginning of that commentary. It would have been waste of energy to continue when field closed in. If field could bring someone in with 5 second gap 10 seconds late in a race they can bring someone in with 2 second gap early in the race.
Are people even trying to draft? I can imagine people not wanting to do anything if they are riding three abreast into the wind and stringed out over 30meters...
Sticking close to the center line can help in the case of a crosswind coming from the left, but it also tends to have less road debris which helps to prevent flats.
I'm having a hard time interpreting my race results. Would it be considered progress or not, and why? Race 1 (month ago): 37:13 / avg pwr = 225W / NP = 228W / avg HR = 167 with 176 max Race 2 (yesterday): 58:13 / avg pwr = 197W / NP = 221W / avg HR = 152 with 179 max I don't quite understand the value of NP and avg power vs HR in comparing these 2 races. Can someone please explain?
Normalized power tries to convey the "stress" accrued during a ride as the physical toll from time in higher power zones is higher than lower zones. Compared to HR, it depends. When a ride is steady at low-effort with a couple of huge sprints, the NP could be quite a bit higher, but your avg HR will hardly be affected. On the other hand if you are constantly changing between short periods of rest and high-aerobic/low-anaerobic, your NP will also be high and your avg HR will also be high. I would imagine your first race felt a lot harder than your second, longer race.
@@kidsafe Thanks for the insight! You are correct, the first race felt much harder. It was more of a TT style effort, whilst the second race was chilling in zone 1/2 with a couple hard hills repeats.
@@arneriemens In Germany you will be arrested if you race on open roads. Plus the authorities are charging so much for closing the roads that there aren't any races. Almost none. They are struggling to get a National Road Championship Race going every year, lol.
I don’t know why your not all riding closer together to benefit each other and respond quicker to this situation. It was like a Sunday club ride, although a club ride is harder than this. Racing in the U.K. is much harder and faster and coordinated. This can’t be called a race.
The discussion about Nate sitting on the front, keeping others from taking up the pacemaking , reminded me of a line in the movie ‘Moneyball’, “when your opponent is making mistakes, don’t interrupt him”
Basically you all got nuked by a guy attacking at 200 watts #notnatesfault #CEOsdontclosegaps xD
LOL -Nate
Ha ha - #CEO'sdontclosegaps
Priceless
Cookie monster 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
There was some silliness involved that resulted in two PV (I was one) and two Cognition riders getting dropped before you started recording. We spent 20 minutes chasing you guys and made it back right around the feed zone. By then the Sierra Nevada guy had already rolled off the front.
How did you guys get dropped? Maybe if you were on then the Sierra Nevada guy wouldn't have rolled off. I thought that was strange! That makes more sense now. - Nate
TrainerRoad At some point the group surged and the four of us let a gap open on purpose thinking it would force others to come around. Plot twist, it turns out there wasn’t actually anyone behind us. Oops.
Lmfao that guy who left all of you at 200 watts.
My. God
Pretty much a Cat6 all-out attack :D
I was watching this and thinking: "Why is he attacking from the front?" and "Wouldn't he be better off holding back and doing a monster counter attack from behind when the group lulls back to 20mph?". Nate had the physical ability to win on a course suited to his athletic profile, definitely. Bummer but great learning opportunity.
I love watching these breakdowns. Helps provide Insight for future races. Between these and the podcast, I learn so much. Thank you. So many parts of this video look more like a casual group ride.
no wind, no hills...hard to make anything stick in those conditions
I think once Pete has the opportunity and motivation again I would love to see Pete coaching Nate from a car 😁👍🏻
Wouldn't call this a race :D Tip: if you wan't to get off the front, then just stop pedalling, coast and pull over to one side. Eventually the others have to go past you.
Feel like the other riders are trolling nate..
amazing that this kind of racing exists. I'm from belgium and races are just never below 25 mph. This makes racing a bit inaccessible for most people. It's great for people in us and uk that they can just hop on a bike and battle it out.
The 35+ age group is small and all the fast guys traveled to Colorado for Masters Road Nationals that weekend. We got passed by the 45+ field on the second lap and by the 55+ group at the very end of the race.
I really like your videos! this is good content!
Thank you!! We'll keep 'em coming :)
Back in the day, when I was WAY over-trained as a Cat4, we always practiced SKILLS, especially riding very close and very fast. We even practiced bumping elbows. What I see lacking, is COOPERATION, i.e., riding close together and working together to maintain a high pace. I'm seeing a lot of SURGING, and low-effort "counter-attacks" that go nowhere.... I think you'd ALL do better, to ride together more in the middle of the race, especially on small-field, open courses like this one.... And sure, I'd have all the latest techie gear, but you also have to learn how to listen to your body. You will ALWAYS get some "adrenaline boost" just from the energy of the race itself. Good video, KEEP RIDING!
ok boomer
@@jjwa5410 Sorry, PUNK, but I'm older than that, - I'm Greatest Generation.
But you don't know what that is, do YOU, PUNK....????....
@@silentumexcubitor6747 10-4 dinosaur
You really think you're funny, don't you? Look, I'm sorry that you had such shitty parents, but it doesn't help you to prove it in public.And starting bullshit like you have, and thinking you're being funny, or ironic, or whatever you think you're doing, only takes away from these excellent videos. Obviously, you're the kind of asshole that hooks other riders in the peleton....
@@silentumexcubitor6747 i mean its a race, there doesnt have to be cooperation. if i can get in a crit and fuck up the cooperation and keep it chill thats better for me. repeated 10sec surges? right in my wheel house. sustained 4-5min vo2max efforts? not my forte. will i sit top 5 and refuse to pull through? absolutely. ya know why? it betters my chances for a result. surging takes off weak rides, removes their ability to attack at the end of a race when all those surges have finally caught up with them. even more so in small fields where you dont have 80 guys to follow moves for you. if you know your competition is guys like nate who have a really good ftp and a pretty solid sprint you better believe im gonna make him do all the work and try and weaken him before the end. explain to me how EVERYONE does better, when only one person can win a race? faster finish time? lower overall normalized power? sure maybe you keep it lower or quicker, but maybe that doesnt suit everyones strengths just like i dont do well with prolonged vo2 efforts. races are dynamic, and unless youve got a team and power for days sitting on the front riding threshold is stupid if youre a solo rider as nate is in this race.
he replied with the current meme because your comment is dated, and while that may work for some even in this age of cycling its not really followed untill you get to upper cats where everyones got fairly strong team mates and roles where they can afford to burn matches just riding on the front. dont get upset by it, or atleast have something better then punk to come back with.
I've been in a slow crit where no one wants to work. Is the idea to just pick some times when the group slows and attack from the back, hoping to get away solo or to at least damage the field a bit? As a cat 5, I worry that I'm going to blow myself up, but at least it won't be as frustrating.
Slow race is not the time to attempt a break away unless you are actually much stronger than the whole group. When the race is slow everybody feels good and I'll jump on your wheel no problem.
@@mitchellsteindler so do you just sit back and ride easy or try to get a few guys to work together to up the pace?
Don't really understand the point about the guy coasting back into the group and not letting him back up (not the lone guy, the breakway dude). Can someone explain?
There was no gap at beginning of that commentary. It would have been waste of energy to continue when field closed in. If field could bring someone in with 5 second gap 10 seconds late in a race they can bring someone in with 2 second gap early in the race.
Very insightful. Thank you.
Hey, what system do you use to show both Front and rear video footage in one single screen ?
We use Davinci Resolve to format the camera views :)
sometimes in order to win you have to be willing to loose.
If that was me, I'd just break and if no one starts working on the front slow down to complete stand still if I have to. That's annoying
What was starting field size. Group so small
The starting field size for the 35+ Masters 1/2/3 race was 17 racers.
Are people even trying to draft? I can imagine people not wanting to do anything if they are riding three abreast into the wind and stringed out over 30meters...
minimal wind that day at 16mph, it wasnt exactly a paceline on the back half
35km/h attack LOL
Never raced before... but why are people near the center line so often? little cross wind from the right?
Sticking close to the center line can help in the case of a crosswind coming from the left, but it also tends to have less road debris which helps to prevent flats.
Most races don’t allow riders to cross double yellow, if you hug the centerline, then attack has to come from right side.
hopefully they saved you a sixpack of Sierra Nevada?
I'm having a hard time interpreting my race results. Would it be considered progress or not, and why?
Race 1 (month ago): 37:13 / avg pwr = 225W / NP = 228W / avg HR = 167 with 176 max
Race 2 (yesterday): 58:13 / avg pwr = 197W / NP = 221W / avg HR = 152 with 179 max
I don't quite understand the value of NP and avg power vs HR in comparing these 2 races. Can someone please explain?
Normalized power tries to convey the "stress" accrued during a ride as the physical toll from time in higher power zones is higher than lower zones. Compared to HR, it depends. When a ride is steady at low-effort with a couple of huge sprints, the NP could be quite a bit higher, but your avg HR will hardly be affected. On the other hand if you are constantly changing between short periods of rest and high-aerobic/low-anaerobic, your NP will also be high and your avg HR will also be high. I would imagine your first race felt a lot harder than your second, longer race.
@@kidsafe Thanks for the insight! You are correct, the first race felt much harder. It was more of a TT style effort, whilst the second race was chilling in zone 1/2 with a couple hard hills repeats.
Nice video but wtf, cars in a race? That's so dangerous. What if their where strong winds and echelons?
there is no wind.
you can have a race with cars or no race...
Safety first! In Europe (Netherlands and Belgium) is it a “no go”. In Belgium is it Number 1 sport so that van be the reason.
@@arneriemens In Germany you will be arrested if you race on open roads. Plus the authorities are charging so much for closing the roads that there aren't any races. Almost none. They are struggling to get a National Road Championship Race going every year, lol.
Mja. That’s a good thing but it’ a shame that in Germany cycling is almost dead due boycott of ARD and ZDF.
Germany hands lot of good pro cyclists.
I don’t know why your not all riding closer together to benefit each other and respond quicker to this situation. It was like a Sunday club ride, although a club ride is harder than this. Racing in the U.K. is much harder and faster and coordinated. This can’t be called a race.
This is road racing at its worst
srs harsh coming from a U23 "C" class racer...who has shit bike handling
omg its soooooooooo flat!