Let him sit in a cell and think about nothing and do nothing for the rest of his life. No more thrills or kills. Ever. Rabbits, dogs, people whatever. Sit there and stare at the walls forever. That's it. Don't even give him papers and a pad
@@IvysMom330 yep...the Moscow cops are dragging their feet on this one just like the Gabby Petito case. The influential boyfriend and his family have left the Country.
@@madmaximilian5783 good thing you are not on a jury. That whole angle is one big Speculation and Conspiracy from YT creators for views and subs. You all got taken.
I'm surprised no video has been shared showing K and M at the Corner Club, whether from cell phone video or security cameras. The walk from that business to the Grub Truck takes 6 minutes per Google Maps. I wonder if Hoodie Guy met them at Corner Club and walked with them the whole way to the Grub Truck, because the three entered the truck's video stream together. Video from Corner Club would help piece together additional details and timelines.
Murder cases take very caring, careful and honest investigators. If this person is connected in any way to influential people, it becomes a cold case. Police seem to have botched this one, from the moment they started.
This is so heartbreaking! Can’t imagine how painful it’s going to be when they start getting back their Children’s belongings. Praying so Hard for these Family’s… And I’m so glad this Professor explains why the Police can’t say much about what they truly know because of destroying the Case against the killer. I WISH Police Departments or ANY LAW ENFORCEMENT Departments Had A SPECIAL CRIMES UNIT with Professionals that Specializes in HELPING FAMILIES OF Murdered CHILDREN !!! Families NEED A PERSON ON THE INSIDE THAT CAN HELP THEM WITH HOW the Process Works, JUST TO HELP THE FAMILY UNDERSTAND WHATS GOING ON. I Feel IF LAW Enforcement Had a Special Crimes Unit TEAM Of Officers with Special Training for Helping Parents of Murdered Children would HELP The Families and also the Officers working the Murder investigation. Just my Opinion. Because we certainly Don’t want the Killer to walk Free or The Wrong Person Charged . We have ALL heard of people going to jail or Prison for Crimes they didn’t do only to find out that the Police were under so much Pressure to make Arrests they put wrong person in there. Sending prayers for all the Families and for Police to find the Killer. 🙏
Lisa I totally agree with you. Each department needs A special unit. To help families navigate their way through what is truly the worst nightmare they will ever experience. Every time I see these 4 children and I think of the way they died I just want to puke. It's sickening what this monster did.
Many do have Victims Assistance units; and most need more committed volunteers (particularly those experienced in the LEO, psych, counseling, advocacy etc. fields)! Orientation & Training is usually done annually, and/or as needed. Call your local LEO office to inquire! If your local office doesn't have a Victims Unit, start working together to organize one; cuz if you don't start it, toull likely never get one! Your strong feelings about it, is your soul calling you out, so take heed! ♥
Yes it does take time. Have the Interviewed all the Classmates of each of the deceased..Just to be sure they aren't the suspects and get more history of interactions.
They probably have a suspect or two, but they won’t release to the public because they want to have a 100 percent spot on case and put this guy away forever ( or in the grave ). If it is just some psychotic serial killer and not someone that personally knew the kids. They are more than likely sticking their nose in the news and investigations to relive their moment of adrenaline during the murders... although it doesn’t seem like someone who knew the victims would have done this because of the 2 girls left unharmed. Super weird case
It is very possible that the police have a strong suspect or two but are collecting the evidence to build the strongest case. It is also possible that the police are stuck and the case is cold. Hence the frustration. It's time for police to generally assure the community that the case is not cold.
@@ashleyseeley5570 It is most certainly possible for the case to be cold if the crime scene has been contaminated. It also depends on the skills of the killer. It also depends on luck (no cameras, did not cut himself, etc). It also depends on the competence of local police and what errors were made (local police in this small sleepy town have zero experience with murders). To be clear, I am not saying the case is cold. It may or may not be cold. Likely not cold. But it is possible. *Keep an open mind!*
@@ashleyseeley5570 You need to be clear on exactly what is not possible. It is certainly possible for the crime scene to have been contaminated. The local police do not have experience with murder in this small town. It is certainly possible that police and FBI are clashing and not working well together. Jonathan Gilliam, ex FBI agent has said exactly this. What exactly is not possible?
Imagine how much cross contamination between the 4 victims and their friends and friends of friends that have been in the house…processing DNA while many labs are probably understaffed to begin with could take months.
They know,,, he is a son of two surgeons he lives about a mile away. He’s in Africa and the parents are in Africa with him. They are lawyered up. FBI knows
@@arielsea9087 Have you noticed that nobody actually has anything factual to contribute about these murders. Everybody is speculating, supposing, or expressing their feelings as facts: it had to be...they must have heard,,,,,it must be like the case where.... on and on in the absence of any actual knowledge.
All fraternities need cameras outside! I would not send my kid to any college to join a fraternity without cameras around. They need to use some of that money and put cameras outside every fraternity. That’s where the problems start!
Another reason for cops to hold back info is if they ever get a confession and that person mentions things that were never released it is damning to him and great evidence for prosecution.
The people who are upset that police haven’t revealed more info or been more “transparent” are the same people who will be upset if the prosecution can’t secure a guilty verdict because they didn’t get enough proof. If LE said they knew who it was right away, the suspect would shut down, or run. But this way they can gather the evidence they need and possibly get an admission of guilt or find the smoking gun. The family is upset and wants answers but they are dealing with PTSD. Rationally they may come to realize at some point that it’s better for LE to hold their cards close to their chest. They aren’t letting the person walk-at least not with out a tail and a phone tap. Everyone be patient and let the police do their job. Timing is key-and not in the sense that things should be rushed. Hopefully they have gathered a month of enough evidence to get this person off the streets forever and not just until trial.
The local pd has fumbled this from day one they need to hand this over to the FBI! This from a concerned student cal state fullerton who basically has the same setup i live with a bunch of people in an off campus dorm
@@sunyue5076 I’m sorry but if the FBI is involved then they’re in charge. The Pauline department may be the face of the crime for the media and all but I promise the FBI doesn’t come in and just take orders from a local city detective. They know so much more than what they’re telling us, it’s part of the investigation. If they told us everything that would give the killer so much leverage against them with getting away, and knowing what they’re doing. Y’all have no clue what’s going on
@sunyue5076 It is still in the first part of the first quarter. A fumble at this stage may not cause significant harm. However, I wonder what errors you are saying they made. I am not agreeing or disagreeing but am curious to know your specific complaint(s). Thanks!
They need to do what they did in an old case from England. It’s a male student who knew these victims from afar. Likely not a friend because he’s weird. Every single male student enrolled in that college needs to be invited to give a sample of their dna to police. Zero in on any and all who refuse. This person injured themselves during the attack. Someone knows a young male student who presented with injuries in the week following the murders. They need to come forward. Check area hospitals for young men presenting for assistance with stitches and cuts. Go through receipt purchases for area retailers who stock band aids, disinfectant and gauze. They got this loser.
Motive: jealousy, alienation, abandonment, rage, heartbreak, embarrassment, passion. Knew the victims for sure. Totally upclose and personal. Knew the house. Kaylee was the worst. Different degrees of attack. Different sounds. They would all be uniform with a serial killer.
They can't do that under the U.S. Constitution. It's a violation of the 4th Amendment. It's an interesting idea, though. Under that reasoning, you could have every male resident of Moscow in a certain age group and certain physical condition submit to a DNA test, and that way rule out any Moscow resident. There's a lot of DNA in that house though. He would have to have left behind blood so they know it's definitely his versus any of the 4 victims. Or someone scratched him and got some of his DNA in their fingernails. That's my guess.
I think that would be a wonderful thing for the Frat to do. For each Frat member to voluntarily give a DNA sample to the MPD for the investigation - and so they can rule out anyone in the Frat.
The crime is so horrific, they need to have a very solid case. Glad they had this professor on. I don't mind all the speculative discussion "except" when it's suggesting a specific person could be the perpetrator. Like what people have been saying about some poor guy in a hoodie at the ravioli stand who was probably just shy and awkward (or cold - it's been in the thirties). And even though the police themselves said he was ruled out. I think all these rumor mongers even shook up one of the families (they became concerned they didn't check certain people out enough - and I"m sure they did - for ex, they must have good alibis). And these families are going through so much as it is. They don't need to be worried about that "too." But if conversation is more general (for example - ideas like, maybe it's someone who was at the Frat party; or, maybe it's the same serial who did this murder and that murder), I don't see a problem with that kind of talk, myself. But tip lines, I understand, are supposed to be used only if a person actually knows something about the case, first-hand. Not for every theory or suspicion you and your online pals are discussing.
That town don’t even want reward posters up so that shows they don’t want to lose all that money because if people see those they will not want to go to that school - town and school seem all about money over justice/ and while is that cop smiling?
Because his life isn’t just about this crime. He’s a person who may have received good news so he’s smiling. You can’t stay in grief all the time. You have to have breaks from it. Rest from it. Your body and mental acuity will break if you don’t have relief.
The cop is smiling because he's a goofball. He's not used to being on camera. He's a small-time hoofer, and he's got a case that's way too big for him.
And you media folk think somehow the killer isn’t listening to these UA-cam clips? If he /she was feeling emboldened, well, he/she now knows not to act on it because you just gave a pretty thorough explanation of that strategy potentially being used to make him/her feel emboldened. Stop talking about it or at least stop talking about the strategies!!!
But this "keeping the suspect guessing" doesnt make sense when this suspect has time to get rid of evidence or even flee the country. Police doesn't have to complain that people start asking questions when from the beginning their timeline was that Ethan and Xana came home latest 1:45 when Xana's father said very early on that he had a call with Xana and she said her and Ethan are home already...
Also: to those who are still thinking about the hoodie guy? This perpetrator is smarter than that. He's not going to get in front of security cameras right before committing this horrific crime. He is aware of security cameras, too, is my take.
I think the guy at the food truck, so far is the most suspicious. Wonder if the FBI interviewed him or did he go to South Africa which has been speculated
@cindyc6328 agree. He could be innocent but he does need to be investigated. He clearly seemed to be on a mission that night at the food truck. He knew where they lived and he had had some trouble with the girls before according to Big Joe. How believable Big Joe is is in need of ascertaining as well. Big Joe claimed he got a text or letter from a former co-worker of Jack Showalter, the hoodie guy. This letter's alleged author made Showalter out to be quick tempered, aggressive and misogynistic. If verified, this would give further impetus to look into his activities after leaving the Grub Truck. If untrue and found to have been fabricated by Big Joe, it would point to him as a possible perp. They could have been co-conspirators working together as well. Anything is possible but they are innocent until proven guilty.
So many people still suspect him. I think he was probably just some awkward or shy guy - or he was just cold - it was in the thirties, I think. My guess, the police wouldn't clear him and make a public statement about it unless he had an alibi. So he probably was with some other people during the window for the murders. So he couldn't have done it.
Totally agree with this professor. Glad someone spoke on this issue...everyone wants to help and play detective which can be miss leading sometimes. Leave it the professionals.🍻✌🏽
I remember one case here in England where a young girl went missing. The police said from the start they believed she had been abducted.. in a documentary I watched they (police)said they had to sift through thousands and thousands of sightings spanning many countries.. Sadly, the girls body was recovered weeks later but it turned out she had most likely been killed within a few short hours of being abducted and within yards of the place she was last seen so all those thousands of sightings cannot possibly have been right. Hindsight of course but whilst obviously no lead can be ignored, some of the sightings were impossible from the start. Whilst maybe people need to think a bit about how plausible their information is before adding it to the workload of the investigation, i can see how important it is not to discourage people from coming forward. The person who doesnt think their information will be important is sometimes the one that ends up being vital.
We live in a free country and we have the right to speculate. No court will act on anybody's theories or hunches anyway. They have to go by the evidence. So what harm does speculation do? In fact, this has been a way that more people are getting educated on how to investigate crimes and how the justice system works. Tips and insider information shared with the detectives often advances the progress to justice.
Do you think that the coroner had the experience to deal with these x4 killings, has she missed anything, I would have thought she would have spent more time examing the bodies and matching to the everdence that Police have found, to find marks on bodies matching DNA..How many cases has she dealt with murders and her experience..I think someone with deals like these murders should have Bern brought in..Why so quickly, I hope she has not missed anything..
Not sure why you're saying the coroner didn't spend enough time autopsying the bodies. She autopsied them, took samples for toxicology , wrote her reports and released the bodies to the family...just as every other coroner does. She's been coroner for 16 years. She has experience.
This isnt tv. To be very honest, yes we think we know what coroners do but they have rules they follow to gather and preserve physical evidence from the body and thats that. Its rare that a body is held for a long period of time prior to a case being solved
Of all the deceased student's *_belongings_* , the autos of the victims would be the most $ value. This crime didn't seem to involve these parked autos, and/or it seems whatever info these autos might provide in the way of crime info wouldn't be that much, so could be extracted rather quickly. Therefore, why are the autos being kept ...or are they??
It seems to be assumed that the two girls left in an Uber from the Grub Hut. Has the Uber driver been cleared? I thought it odd that it was said that the Uber driver yelled "Hurry!" Usually they are patient and let their customers take their time, don't they? As to your question about why they are keeping the autos, I believe they want to thoroughly examine them in order to leave no stone unturned as they are already taking a lot of heat for letting Jack Showalter go to Africa and quickly 'clearing' others. There is a letter alleged to be from a former co-worker of Showalter's claiming that he was quite offensive and misogynistic to co-workers at a food outlet, especially the females. This letter was not signed so who knows if it is legit or some sort of prank?
I've never seen an investigation where the parents were kept so in the dark. So sick of people saying be patient. Get some information out so the public can help. ASAP
The pubic usually hurts investigations. Maybe not nowadays with technology but going back to the abduction of Jone Rubles, public being given information is pretty much what made it impossible to find the perps. Same with Ghislaine Maxwell. Joseph mifsud etc...
I agree with professer Patience is having information collected and a strong conviction. Only one charge of person so make it stick solidly. Use of more Experts in field of murderers. Make them police staff. Work with Experts get best equipment. Love to all the families. This is time for evidence and patience. Justice will be served love bernadette UK
They have no idea is what the truth is. Why say they’re targeted the say they’re not the again say they are. It’s very scary that someone killed 4 people in this manner and not even a suspect? Wow..
There will be no healing till this suspect is caught... cmon people ? Is your son or husband acting weird ?? Nervous or over excited on a high???? Could they of done this ?? If so...turn ...them ...in !!!
Cases can take years. Look at Delphi. If this was cartel, it may never be solved. I get people want answers yesterday, but since when did the public’s thirst for justice speed up processing a crime scene?
How many thousands of times are LE and defenders of LE going to tell us that we need patience and that the public is not good for anything but spouting unhelpful rumors, speculation, and theories. Such LE repetition aimed at the public is arrogant, condescending, and exclusionary. What defenders of LE are really saying is >>> public, go away; we don't want to be bothered by you.
I believe food truck guy from the very beginning and his parents are stinking rich and donate lots of money every year to the college they don't want to lose that money every year
Most people wouldnt throw someone under the bus, but I believe its someone they will never suspect. I still believe its one of those they let go, but they need more evidence.
I think Moscow police let the killer get away. I don’t think they fumbled the ball. I think they threw the game. I feel so bad for the parents and siblings and friends and students and community. I would not feel safe there anymore.
Mosc-No PD does not need to give specific details about what they know at this time, but that being said, you would have be to deaf, blind, and dumb to not see the suspect who is so clearly in front of you. We all know who that is. For the sake of the families and the community, you can say that you have identified a suspect, they are being investigated, and leave it at that. Bing, bang, boom.
There's a report out there that the guy in the hootie went to his parents cabin then drove to their home before leaving for Africa, on the same night. Yet the police cleared everyone way too soon with interrogating the people who knew the students. That was the police first mistake, like someone was going to confess. Unbelievable how this case was handled.
Let's talk more about Jack "Jake" Showalter.........there is a reason why they aren't talking how they ruled out the one guy that was hovering/stalking the girls the night of the murders.
@@annetreacy2437 Do you think Jack S. could have lived in town for 6 or more years? Maybe it is just excited internet sleuths. But, evidence suggests mutilatated animals appeared around the town on occassion for at least 6 years and it looks legit. Wild rabbits and a dog were known victims this fall. Animal torture is apparently one of the 3 top traits documented by the FBI to predict a serial killer in the making. A student who knew Ethan and is very close to one of the Jacks (but not Jack S.) allegedly posted a picture on social media with some friends with edgy and dark vibes the Monday after the murders saying "This was the best weekend ever". And the Jack he knew allegedly liked the picture. I think that is more suspicious than the hoddie. The dude I am referring to also recieved a small amount of money from Ethan's Venmo account at 3:30 AM the night of the murder named "3:30 AM" as the subject line (most Venmo transactions are public records, unless configured otherwise). The woman who shared this on UA-cam with other cryptic social media pictures, pictures of a person wearing a knight mask holding a K-Bar, and vile/bloody looking artwork created by this male student sent all this to the PD tip line. So we will see if it is related or not.
Anyone who was awake and looking outside in Moscow ID on Sunday Nov 13th between 3-6:30 AM should probably call the tip line just to provide a location and a description of whatever they saw. Whether it was, for ex, looking out their window at 5 to see one blue honda driving east down Maple st - or some person with a bag swiftly walking up a hill - whatever. The smallest and most mundane kind of things. "And then I went back to bed." Or "Then we got home." Or even, "I saw nothing at this location." Those kind of tips could be valuable, even if it's just to eliminate possibilities. Moscow isn't that big. Doesn't have that many streets. And there aren't that many routes out of town either.
I wonder if these girls had journals! They may have wrote down weird stuff going on around them. Like maybe Kaylee/Maddie wrote down about a stalker or strange men or maybe Xana wrote down stuff.
I have to ask? How is a house a target? They keep saying they don't know if the house was a target or the people who live in it. Egging a house makes a house a target not murder! This was someone angry and psyco the targeted these poor people.
@@jackiemurphy1787 That is not what they mean. Not all the pretty girls in that house were killed. If the entire house was targeted, the killer surely knows there are two girls living on the first floor.
Emboldening a killer could be a good thing. Perp could become very careless if he feels police have nothing. Whatever investigators are doing...it ain't working
What they don't tell you is that there is No Clean Up crew. Someone has to to come in and clean that house up. All of it. Generally family of deceased.
@W.T. F. I know a woman whose mother literally exploded, the cops thought it was the scene of a crime. She had to clean up all of it; ceiling walls, and floor.
Please update your investigstion..y'all are behind with this story. Their tight lipped so the media won't destroy their case..so don't destroy this case...stop
IMO It could be an Isreal Keyes type of killer. The military alpha male type, who wants to be the best at what he does, and the smartest! The house or victim/s are linked to the killer in some way, even if its a very loose link. In these modern times for investigations it shows that its a strong possibility that it will all eventually catch up to them. No one has the right to cause fear, and pain for someone, and then think they have the right to decide that their lives should end.
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #1 НАЧАЛО ПУТЕШЕСТВИЯ [Новый сезон] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/380Q7gLWGvk/mqdefault.jpg)
No life without parole death penalty for who ever did this
Not agreed. Because it would be harder for the killer's parents than life without parole.
The death penalty prevents the possibility of freeing someone later if found to be innocent. It also costs more than life in prison.
IMO they need to go out the same they took these 4 lives.
Nah… justice is to loose ! Eye for an eye
Mass shooters don't even get DP
Getting tired of hearing that the target might be the house. I think the house is doing just fine.
That's right the students were the target not the house
I agree, but that house will be avoided like the plague for some time.
Exactly
Targeting the house simply means, the victims weren’t targeted because of who they were.
It would be so creepy cringey to remain in Moscow.
The killer new exactly what he or she were doing
Experienced with the knife
No trail of blood leaving the house
Premeditated murder
Well thought out
I think they would rather have the murderer found, arrested, convicted and sentenced with the harshest time or otherwise.
It's the scream movie
Let him sit in a cell and think about nothing and do nothing for the rest of his life. No more thrills or kills. Ever. Rabbits, dogs, people whatever. Sit there and stare at the walls forever. That's it. Don't even give him papers and a pad
NOBODY is healing until the murderer is caught.
Can't catch them if LE allowed them to leave the COUNTRY!!!!
@@IvysMom330 yep...the Moscow cops are dragging their feet on this one just like the Gabby Petito case.
The influential boyfriend and his family have left the Country.
@@madmaximilian5783 good thing you are not on a jury. That whole angle is one big Speculation and Conspiracy from YT creators for views and subs. You all got taken.
@@ApplePie.. ok you..treason supporting ,constitution denying, hateful Trump supporting separatist and boneheaded loser!!!
@@IvysMom330 no one left the country
They lived at number 1122, they were killed on November 2022 (11/22). Scary stuff...
I'm surprised no video has been shared showing K and M at the Corner Club, whether from cell phone video or security cameras. The walk from that business to the Grub Truck takes 6 minutes per Google Maps. I wonder if Hoodie Guy met them at Corner Club and walked with them the whole way to the Grub Truck, because the three entered the truck's video stream together. Video from Corner Club would help piece together additional details and timelines.
A very good, young reporter who deserves encouragement! Well done.
OMG this is the first person who makes sense. Thank you professor
Murder cases take very caring, careful and honest investigators. If this person is connected in any way to influential people, it becomes a cold case. Police seem to have botched this one, from the moment they started.
Your first sentence made sense.
@@greedo2660 The last way is spot on.
This is so heartbreaking! Can’t imagine how painful it’s going to be when they start getting back their Children’s belongings. Praying so Hard for these Family’s… And I’m so glad this Professor explains why the Police can’t say much about what they truly know because of destroying the Case against the killer. I WISH Police Departments or ANY LAW ENFORCEMENT Departments Had A SPECIAL CRIMES UNIT with Professionals that Specializes in HELPING FAMILIES OF Murdered CHILDREN !!! Families NEED A PERSON ON THE INSIDE THAT CAN HELP THEM WITH HOW the Process Works, JUST TO HELP THE FAMILY UNDERSTAND WHATS GOING ON. I Feel IF LAW Enforcement Had a Special Crimes Unit TEAM Of Officers with Special Training for Helping Parents of Murdered Children would HELP The Families and also the Officers working the Murder investigation. Just my Opinion. Because we certainly Don’t want the Killer to walk Free or The Wrong Person Charged . We have ALL heard of people going to jail or Prison for Crimes they didn’t do only to find out that the Police were under so much Pressure to make Arrests they put wrong person in there. Sending prayers for all the Families and for Police to find the Killer. 🙏
@@jillijane9793 she's deaf
Lisa I totally agree with you. Each department needs A special unit. To help families navigate their way through what is truly the worst nightmare they will ever experience. Every time I see these 4 children and I think of the way they died I just want to puke. It's sickening what this monster did.
Many do have Victims Assistance units; and most need more committed volunteers (particularly those experienced in the LEO, psych, counseling, advocacy etc. fields)! Orientation & Training is usually done annually, and/or as needed. Call your local LEO office to inquire!
If your local office doesn't have a Victims Unit, start working together to organize one; cuz if you don't start it, toull likely never get one! Your strong feelings about it, is your soul calling you out, so take heed! ♥
Yea even if they find the killer they'll just release him that's how it is in USA anymore u kill someone u get a slap on the wrist.
They have like 6 cops total
It breaks my heart ❤️
ok
@@ltahoe7195 hey Tahoe…. Carson here…. Why you spamming me?
Yes it does take time. Have the Interviewed all the Classmates of each of the deceased..Just to be sure they aren't the suspects and get more history of interactions.
Just my opinion but those police know exactly who did that s***
Oh yeah
They probably have a suspect or two, but they won’t release to the public because they want to have a 100 percent spot on case and put this guy away forever ( or in the grave ). If it is just some psychotic serial killer and not someone that personally knew the kids. They are more than likely sticking their nose in the news and investigations to relive their moment of adrenaline during the murders... although it doesn’t seem like someone who knew the victims would have done this because of the 2 girls left unharmed. Super weird case
It is very possible that the police have a strong suspect or two but are collecting the evidence to build the strongest case. It is also possible that the police are stuck and the case is cold. Hence the frustration. It's time for police to generally assure the community that the case is not cold.
@@ashleyseeley5570 It is most certainly possible for the case to be cold if the crime scene has been contaminated. It also depends on the skills of the killer. It also depends on luck (no cameras, did not cut himself, etc). It also depends on the competence of local police and what errors were made (local police in this small sleepy town have zero experience with murders).
To be clear, I am not saying the case is cold. It may or may not be cold. Likely not cold. But it is possible.
*Keep an open mind!*
@@ashleyseeley5570 You need to be clear on exactly what is not possible. It is certainly possible for the crime scene to have been contaminated. The local police do not have experience with murder in this small town.
It is certainly possible that police and FBI are clashing and not working well together. Jonathan Gilliam, ex FBI agent has said exactly this.
What exactly is not possible?
Imagine how much cross contamination between the 4 victims and their friends and friends of friends that have been in the house…processing DNA while many labs are probably understaffed to begin with could take months.
Not in a case like this. The technology has advanced. They could get what they need in hours.
You work in a crime lab? Experienced in forensics?
Good perspective. Not a forensic scientist, but I played one on tv AND I stayed at a Holiday Inn.....
And rape kits are rarely processed!
They know,,, he is a son of two surgeons he lives about a mile away. He’s in Africa and the parents are in Africa with him. They are lawyered up.
FBI knows
I appreciate the way you handle your cases, not usually taped because you like to ask questions. Integrity and facts are so important.
Let’s hope online “sleuths” don’t come after this professor the way they came after the poor neighbor for doing an interview lol
The poor neighbor needs to follow lawyer advice and clam up on future interviews. He has nothing to contribute.
Seriously. They are worse than the Thoughts And Prayers people.
@@arielsea9087 Have you noticed that nobody actually has anything factual to contribute about these murders. Everybody is speculating, supposing, or expressing their feelings as facts: it had to be...they must have heard,,,,,it must be like the case where.... on and on in the absence of any actual knowledge.
All fraternities need cameras outside! I would not send my kid to any college to join a fraternity without cameras around. They need to use some of that money and put cameras outside every fraternity. That’s where the problems start!
Did you go to college? Were you in a frat? Last thing any frat bro would want is video evidence of them underage drinking etc
This is not a murder mystery on Netflix...and the murderer is not going to be found in an hour.
Another reason for cops to hold back info is if they ever get a confession and that person mentions things that were never released it is damning to him and great evidence for prosecution.
The people who are upset that police haven’t revealed more info or been more “transparent” are the same people who will be upset if the prosecution can’t secure a guilty verdict because they didn’t get enough proof.
If LE said they knew who it was right away, the suspect would shut down, or run. But this way they can gather the evidence they need and possibly get an admission of guilt or find the smoking gun.
The family is upset and wants answers but they are dealing with PTSD. Rationally they may come to realize at some point that it’s better for LE to hold their cards close to their chest.
They aren’t letting the person walk-at least not with out a tail and a phone tap. Everyone be patient and let the police do their job. Timing is key-and not in the sense that things should be rushed.
Hopefully they have gathered a month of enough evidence to get this person off the streets forever and not just until trial.
The local pd has fumbled this from day one they need to hand this over to the FBI! This from a concerned student cal state fullerton who basically has the same setup i live with a bunch of people in an off campus dorm
The FBI were called in since Day 2.
@@okay8298 doing what? On what capacity? They are not the lead agency and they need to be
@@sunyue5076 I’m sorry but if the FBI is involved then they’re in charge. The Pauline department may be the face of the crime for the media and all but I promise the FBI doesn’t come in and just take orders from a local city detective. They know so much more than what they’re telling us, it’s part of the investigation. If they told us everything that would give the killer so much leverage against them with getting away, and knowing what they’re doing. Y’all have no clue what’s going on
@sunyue5076 It is still in the first part of the first quarter. A fumble at this stage may not cause significant harm. However, I wonder what errors you are saying they made. I am not agreeing or disagreeing but am curious to know your specific complaint(s). Thanks!
🤣 are you in LE? Why don't you go to Moscow and give them some tips on how to be better investigators?
Jack lives a 2 minute walk away from the slaughter house
Too obvious
Red herring
Which one? There's like 3 Jacks.
Showalter
@@prometheusvenom7189 I guess the “two Jacks” were close by ?
They’re actually acting like they dont kmow anything?
Same old story- makes one furious
They need to do what they did in an old case from England. It’s a male student who knew these victims from afar. Likely not a friend because he’s weird. Every single male student enrolled in that college needs to be invited to give a sample of their dna to police. Zero in on any and all who refuse. This person injured themselves during the attack. Someone knows a young male student who presented with injuries in the week following the murders. They need to come forward. Check area hospitals for young men presenting for assistance with stitches and cuts. Go through receipt purchases for area retailers who stock band aids, disinfectant and gauze. They got this loser.
Motive: jealousy, alienation, abandonment, rage, heartbreak, embarrassment, passion. Knew the victims for sure. Totally upclose and personal. Knew the house. Kaylee was the worst. Different degrees of attack. Different sounds. They would all be uniform with a serial killer.
They can't do that under the U.S. Constitution. It's a violation of the 4th Amendment. It's an interesting idea, though. Under that reasoning, you could have every male resident of Moscow in a certain age group and certain physical condition submit to a DNA test, and that way rule out any Moscow resident. There's a lot of DNA in that house though. He would have to have left behind blood so they know it's definitely his versus any of the 4 victims. Or someone scratched him and got some of his DNA in their fingernails. That's my guess.
I think that would be a wonderful thing for the Frat to do. For each Frat member to voluntarily give a DNA sample to the MPD for the investigation - and so they can rule out anyone in the Frat.
The crime is so horrific, they need to have a very solid case. Glad they had this professor on. I don't mind all the speculative discussion "except" when it's suggesting a specific person could be the perpetrator. Like what people have been saying about some poor guy in a hoodie at the ravioli stand who was probably just shy and awkward (or cold - it's been in the thirties). And even though the police themselves said he was ruled out. I think all these rumor mongers even shook up one of the families (they became concerned they didn't check certain people out enough - and I"m sure they did - for ex, they must have good alibis). And these families are going through so much as it is. They don't need to be worried about that "too." But if conversation is more general (for example - ideas like, maybe it's someone who was at the Frat party; or, maybe it's the same serial who did this murder and that murder), I don't see a problem with that kind of talk, myself. But tip lines, I understand, are supposed to be used only if a person actually knows something about the case, first-hand. Not for every theory or suspicion you and your online pals are discussing.
That town don’t even want reward posters up so that shows they don’t want to lose all that money because if people see those they will not want to go to that school - town and school seem all about money over justice/ and while is that cop smiling?
So sad but most likely a reality
Who would be depicted on these theoretical wanted posters you're imagining?
Because his life isn’t just about this crime. He’s a person who may have received good news so he’s smiling.
You can’t stay in grief all the time. You have to have breaks from it. Rest from it. Your body and mental acuity will break if you don’t have relief.
The cop is smiling because he's a goofball. He's not used to being on camera. He's a small-time hoofer, and he's got a case that's way too big for him.
@@greedo2660 They said reward poster, so guessing the victims & reward amount...
And you media folk think somehow the killer isn’t listening to these UA-cam clips? If he /she was feeling emboldened, well, he/she now knows not to act on it because you just gave a pretty thorough explanation of that strategy potentially being used to make him/her feel emboldened. Stop talking about it or at least stop talking about the strategies!!!
But this "keeping the suspect guessing" doesnt make sense when this suspect has time to get rid of evidence or even flee the country. Police doesn't have to complain that people start asking questions when from the beginning their timeline was that Ethan and Xana came home latest 1:45 when Xana's father said very early on that he had a call with Xana and she said her and Ethan are home already...
If they have a suspect in mind, they will be watching that person closely.
@@mischaraine1645 Yes, sounded like a phone call. Like her mother he did no appear on camera.
Must be nice to live in a community where the police don’t want o negatively impact anyone’s life.
Targeted the house? It's ludicrous! Why would someone target a house?
What a worthless segment. No faith in Moscow PD or media that kicks out these featureless videos.
The cars and house were under police supervision 24 hours. They haven’t been compromised. They could never leave that house unguarded
Also: to those who are still thinking about the hoodie guy? This perpetrator is smarter than that. He's not going to get in front of security cameras right before committing this horrific crime. He is aware of security cameras, too, is my take.
Rumors or is the actual video evidence that we all see? They let him leave the country too late he's gone.
?
Who left the country & please state ur sources for confirmation.
him leaving is actually false
Where is John “Jack” Showalter? The public’s Person Of Interest?
They need to investigate the fraternity.
I think the guy at the food truck, so far is the most suspicious. Wonder if the FBI interviewed him or did he go to South Africa which has been speculated
@cindyc6328 agree. He could be innocent but he does need to be investigated. He clearly seemed to be on a mission that night at the food truck. He knew where they lived and he had had some trouble with the girls before according to Big Joe. How believable Big Joe is is in need of ascertaining as well. Big Joe claimed he got a text or letter from a former co-worker of Jack Showalter, the hoodie guy. This letter's alleged author made Showalter out to be quick tempered, aggressive and misogynistic. If verified, this would give further impetus to look into his activities after leaving the Grub Truck. If untrue and found to have been fabricated by Big Joe, it would point to him as a possible perp. They could have been co-conspirators working together as well. Anything is possible but they are innocent until proven guilty.
He was cleared very quickly.
So many people still suspect him. I think he was probably just some awkward or shy guy - or he was just cold - it was in the thirties, I think. My guess, the police wouldn't clear him and make a public statement about it unless he had an alibi. So he probably was with some other people during the window for the murders. So he couldn't have done it.
But he was fighting with Kaylee
Totally agree with this professor. Glad someone spoke on this issue...everyone wants to help and play detective which can be miss leading sometimes. Leave it the professionals.🍻✌🏽
absolutely...
I remember one case here in England where a young girl went missing. The police said from the start they believed she had been abducted.. in a documentary I watched they (police)said they had to sift through thousands and thousands of sightings spanning many countries.. Sadly, the girls body was recovered weeks later but it turned out she had most likely been killed within a few short hours of being abducted and within yards of the place she was last seen so all those thousands of sightings cannot possibly have been right. Hindsight of course but whilst obviously no lead can be ignored, some of the sightings were impossible from the start. Whilst maybe people need to think a bit about how plausible their information is before adding it to the workload of the investigation, i can see how important it is not to discourage people from coming forward. The person who doesnt think their information will be important is sometimes the one that ends up being vital.
We live in a free country and we have the right to speculate. No court will act on anybody's theories or hunches anyway. They have to go by the evidence. So what harm does speculation do? In fact, this has been a way that more people are getting educated on how to investigate crimes and how the justice system works. Tips and insider information shared with the detectives often advances the progress to justice.
Do you think that the coroner had the experience to deal with these x4 killings, has she missed anything, I would have thought she would have spent more time examing the bodies and matching to the everdence that Police have found, to find marks on bodies matching DNA..How many cases has she dealt with murders and her experience..I think someone with deals like these murders should have Bern brought in..Why so quickly, I hope she has not missed anything..
Not sure why you're saying the coroner didn't spend enough time autopsying the bodies. She autopsied them, took samples for toxicology , wrote her reports and released the bodies to the family...just as every other coroner does. She's been coroner for 16 years. She has experience.
This isnt tv. To be very honest, yes we think we know what coroners do but they have rules they follow to gather and preserve physical evidence from the body and thats that.
Its rare that a body is held for a long period of time prior to a case being solved
@@Stefanie2530 the Coroner doesn't do autopsies, the Medical Examiner does.
It's the Medical Examiner that does the autopsy, not the Coroner. Take anything you hear from their Coroner with a grain of salt.
The coroner is a nurse and she doesn't do the autopsies, the Medical Examiner who is a pathologist does.
Where is Jack Showalter?
Africa with his parents and he lawyered up.
That tow truck must be 40 years old!!!! Amazing!!!
Exactly Right!
The police botched this case. The families need their lawyer to retrieve info from these cops waisting their time.
How did they botch the case exactly?
@@ApplePie.. because we are going into a month with no suspects, motives, or any evidence that's relevant
Of all the deceased student's *_belongings_* , the autos of the victims would be the most $ value. This crime didn't seem to involve these parked autos, and/or it seems whatever info these autos might provide in the way of crime info wouldn't be that much, so could be extracted rather quickly. Therefore, why are the autos being kept ...or are they??
It seems to be assumed that the two girls left in an Uber from the Grub Hut. Has the Uber driver been cleared? I thought it odd that it was said that the Uber driver yelled "Hurry!" Usually they are patient and let their customers take their time, don't they?
As to your question about why they are keeping the autos, I believe they want to thoroughly examine them in order to leave no stone unturned as they are already taking a lot of heat for letting Jack Showalter go to Africa and quickly 'clearing' others. There is a letter alleged to be from a former co-worker of Showalter's claiming that he was quite offensive and misogynistic to co-workers at a food outlet, especially the females. This letter was not signed so who knows if it is legit or some sort of prank?
All but one of those cars were BRAND NEW! NO PLATES!!
Why did they give the haystack away??
I've never seen an investigation where the parents were kept so in the dark. So sick of people saying be patient. Get some information out so the public can help. ASAP
The pubic usually hurts investigations. Maybe not nowadays with technology but going back to the abduction of Jone Rubles, public being given information is pretty much what made it impossible to find the perps. Same with Ghislaine Maxwell. Joseph mifsud etc...
Poor taste for this professor to speak with the news!
It's probably someone who you would never think it was
Like one of the teachers? Or staff? Maybe even a local policeman?
If it is. . . It isn't like his parents are stupid. We do want the right person but must also ensure public safety.
Moscow PD handling this case has been a literal JOKE.
@caiuspostumiusturrinus1024 What errors do you think they have made? Thanks!
If you think so why don't you go to Moscow and help them out or call them up and give them some tips! 😂
Why don' t they bring dogs in. Did they check for urine outside near tree's?
I wondered the same thing from the start…
They had a suspect he's out of country at moment.
Not necessarily!!!
that was an "insight"???? pleeez
I agree with professer Patience is having information collected and a strong conviction. Only one charge of person so make it stick solidly. Use of more Experts in field of murderers. Make them police staff. Work with Experts get best equipment. Love to all the families. This is time for evidence and patience. Justice will be served love bernadette UK
I don't like Showalter. I wouldnot want a student back that leaves dead carcasses on doorsteps, stalks women, disrespects everyone.
They have no idea is what the truth is. Why say they’re targeted the say they’re not the again say they are. It’s very scary that someone killed 4 people in this manner and not even a suspect? Wow..
It’s a matter of time before they find the Elantra
@W.T. F. wouldn’t surprise me if it was made up
The Moscow Police Chief looks like Santa Clause. It must be nice to have such a friendly looking Police Chief in the town you live.
There will be no healing till this suspect is caught... cmon people ? Is your son or husband acting weird ?? Nervous or over excited on a high???? Could they of done this ?? If so...turn ...them ...in !!!
Cases can take years. Look at Delphi. If this was cartel, it may never be solved. I get people want answers yesterday, but since when did the public’s thirst for justice speed up processing a crime scene?
You are so right ....
Cartel? 🤣
TMW you realize 50 seconds into the recommended video that there must be a town named Moscow in Idaho.
How many thousands of times are LE and defenders of LE going to tell us that we need patience and that the public is not good for anything but spouting unhelpful rumors, speculation, and theories. Such LE repetition aimed at the public is arrogant, condescending, and exclusionary. What defenders of LE are really saying is >>> public, go away; we don't want to be bothered by you.
I think comments are very important throughout all the videos. He is commenting on videos.
So are law enforcement officers.
@@lisaforte1575 obviously
I believe food truck guy from the very beginning and his parents are stinking rich and donate lots of money every year to the college they don't want to lose that money every year
FBI doesn’t care about any of that
This case is cold🥶
next we have the cleaner at the corner cafe with his insight into the murders.
Most people wouldnt throw someone under the bus, but I believe its someone they will never suspect. I still believe its one of those they let go, but they need more evidence.
Whose car had the Arizona plates?
I think Moscow police let the killer get away. I don’t think they fumbled the ball. I think they threw the game. I feel so bad for the parents and siblings and friends and students and community. I would not feel safe there anymore.
Mosc-No PD does not need to give specific details about what they know at this time, but that being said, you would have be to deaf, blind, and dumb to not see the suspect who is so clearly in front of you. We all know who that is. For the sake of the families and the community, you can say that you have identified a suspect, they are being investigated, and leave it at that. Bing, bang, boom.
Idaho doesn’t want to admit that the killer is homegrown.
There's a report out there that the guy in the hootie went to his parents cabin then drove to their home before leaving for Africa, on the same night. Yet the police cleared everyone way too soon with interrogating the people who knew the students. That was the police first mistake, like someone was going to confess. Unbelievable how this case was handled.
Let's talk more about Jack "Jake" Showalter.........there is a reason why they aren't talking how they ruled out the one guy that was hovering/stalking the girls the night of the murders.
The guy who left Moscow that night and then flew to Africa and hasn't returned? Yeah, I'm very curious about him.
@@annetreacy2437 Do you think Jack S. could have lived in town for 6 or more years?
Maybe it is just excited internet sleuths. But, evidence suggests mutilatated animals appeared around the town on occassion for at least 6 years and it looks legit. Wild rabbits and a dog were known victims this fall. Animal torture is apparently one of the 3 top traits documented by the FBI to predict a serial killer in the making.
A student who knew Ethan and is very close to one of the Jacks (but not Jack S.) allegedly posted a picture on social media with some friends with edgy and dark vibes the Monday after the murders saying "This was the best weekend ever". And the Jack he knew allegedly liked the picture.
I think that is more suspicious than the hoddie. The dude I am referring to also recieved a small amount of money from Ethan's Venmo account at 3:30 AM the night of the murder named "3:30 AM" as the subject line (most Venmo transactions are public records, unless configured otherwise).
The woman who shared this on UA-cam with other cryptic social media pictures, pictures of a person wearing a knight mask holding a K-Bar, and vile/bloody looking artwork created by this male student sent all this to the PD tip line. So we will see if it is related or not.
Makes the professor’s criminology classes more interesting now
Imo local police have already screwed up. Seriously?? Target could be the HOUSE!
Anyone who was awake and looking outside in Moscow ID on Sunday Nov 13th between 3-6:30 AM should probably call the tip line just to provide a location and a description of whatever they saw. Whether it was, for ex, looking out their window at 5 to see one blue honda driving east down Maple st - or some person with a bag swiftly walking up a hill - whatever. The smallest and most mundane kind of things. "And then I went back to bed." Or "Then we got home." Or even, "I saw nothing at this location." Those kind of tips could be valuable, even if it's just to eliminate possibilities. Moscow isn't that big. Doesn't have that many streets. And there aren't that many routes out of town either.
Patients is one thing that there's not a lot of today!
We hear the last murder was years ago but Hudson Lindow was found this May. What is his story? Is the University sade? Or Greek students?
Takes time, but they clear people in 2 days. Makes sense 😂
I wonder if these girls had journals! They may have wrote down weird stuff going on around them. Like maybe Kaylee/Maddie wrote down about a stalker or strange men or maybe Xana wrote down stuff.
@Jennifer Markovich. I am sure the police already looked for everything in their personal belongings.
Nancy Drew ⤴️
@@ApplePie.. You’ve made 13 useless comments. Absolutely an incel.
@Apple Pie 🤣🤣🤣🤣 I am guessing u ment that to be funny? Unless your a bully.
I have to ask? How is a house a target? They keep saying they don't know if the house was a target or the people who live in it. Egging a house makes a house a target not murder! This was someone angry and psyco the targeted these poor people.
It could just mean that the killer didnt care who lived there, they chose the house because they just did
I assume they imply the house is target meaning all of them, all four victims.
Yes that’s what it means. Targeting the house because he/she/they don’t like pretty girls for example
@@jackiemurphy1787 That is not what they mean. Not all the pretty girls in that house were killed. If the entire house was targeted, the killer surely knows there are two girls living on the first floor.
Charles Manson targeted a house.
The longer it takes the more the Police look like fools.
Emboldening a killer could be a good thing. Perp could become very careless if he feels police have nothing. Whatever investigators are doing...it ain't working
Was Kaylee beheaded ? This is so sad !
Hope not!!!
This is like the series The Order on Netflix AKA skull ☠️ and bones
Why do you do it for politicians? They are the ones you need to ask hard ball questions to the most.
I wonder who they have arrested?
Check out the outline of the knife in hoodie food truck stalkers front jacket pocket.
Who owns this house..where is there no door dash in a rental house w college students..but whose the owner?
What they don't tell you is that there is No Clean Up crew. Someone has to to come in and clean that house up. All of it. Generally family of deceased.
Crime scene cleaners are hired
@W.T. F. I know a woman whose mother literally exploded, the cops thought it was the scene of a crime. She had to clean up all of it; ceiling walls, and floor.
I believe it's a student that knew themas the culprit
Oh yeah a professor that doesn't know anything about the murders but he has something to say oh boy I can't wait to say something that doesn't matter
This is so sad 😢
Please update your investigstion..y'all are behind with this story.
Their tight lipped so the media won't destroy their case..so don't destroy this case...stop
Most likely some random killer they let go out of jail to roam free taking lives.
I've always wondered WHAT IF IT'S A PROFESSOR AT THE U OF I⁉️⁉️⁉️⁉️⁉️
It takes time to solve one murder, let alone four!
Have the Drs Showalter returned from their vaca yet?
IMO It could be an Isreal Keyes type of killer. The military alpha male type, who wants to be the best at what he does, and the smartest! The house or victim/s are linked to the killer in some way, even if its a very loose link. In these modern times for investigations it shows that its a strong possibility that it will all eventually catch up to them. No one has the right to cause fear, and pain for someone, and then think they have the right to decide that their lives should end.
The food guy guy fled the country already I heard