The temptation to take the saddle up too much is so strong in our mind, that seems most of us are doing it without even knowing that we riding too high. Once you lower a bit the saddle (5-10 mm), you suddenly feel so good! No more of that uneasy feeling of ballet dancer, pedaling on your tow. No more sacrificing the control on the bike. Less back pains, less neck pains and even less hands/wrists pain. The power from your legs seems more balanced, because the pedaling cycle becomes rounder and not 'up and down' hammering. Well, i have to tell you the feeling is amazing and it makes you feel good on your bike again, just the way it was when you were a kid riding on you BMX to the sea (without garmin yeh yeh..). Thanks
Agreed - I broke my femur (same as Froome) and the surgery can cause a leg length discrepancy, meaning a lower saddle height is preferred to stop the rider sitting off-centre and favouring either leg
I’m loving that Jesse has finally churned through all those ‘intro’ videos and is now purely doing rabbit hole stuff. Good work. Nice editing touches too! 😘
Chris Froome is known for his high cadence which is easier with a lower saddle. Many people think higher is better but lower can be more efficient and comfortable.
Really good video. Only YOU, yourself can determine the perfect bike fit for yourself, not a bike fitter or someone else but you can get them to give you a bike fit to start up and you slowly make adjustments yourself on which position you're comfortable at in normal, sprint, aero and climbing position.
Excellent, Agree with all you say! Another thing about Froome is that he sits really far forward on the saddle, which makes it seem even lower. Most of us can't sit that far forward because there'd be too much weight on our arms but he's so light he can go far forward to reach the hoods on a very long stem. In any case I'm a fan of low saddle heights if your hip can handle the leg coming up a bit higher. The old school "pedal backwards with heels on pedals without hips rocking but with leg straight" is perfect for me.
Totally agree. I race(d) track and the saddle was high(ish), being a good 30mm higher than the roadie setup. Different horses for different courses. :)
Not a track racer or anything but two things maybe to consider are bottom brackets height is a fair bit higher on those track bikes and that would effect saddle height. The other thing is crank length. Just thought that might be a factor
I followed the LeMond method at one time and always thought I was reaching somewhat, I put it down to lack of flexibility as much as anything, but eventually after countless trips to the chiropractor, I knew there had to be another way. I got a another fit and discovered just how much of a leg length difference I had, 3 cm, that threw my lumbar out. The fitter added a 1.5 cm shim ,and dropped my saddle 1.5 cm, and let my body absorb the 1.5 cm difference. It helped a lot, so I went from 77 cm to 75.5, and it ended up at 74.9, where it's stayed for years. That along with my cleats slammed back like they had always been, really helped me smooth out my pedaling with plenty of heel drop and I could really put out the power, climbing and on the flats. And my back hasn't given me a worry since.. So, for some, the Lemond method isn't the answer
Pedals, cleats and shoes all have a lower stack height now and the Lemond method was good in it's day with the equipment we used back then but it is too high for todays equipment.
This video and the comment section talking about saddle height as if can you ride any amount of hours at any height, if anybody moves their saddle height 1.5cm lower or higher than what it should be it's a matter of time before you absolutely destroy hip muscles, it band and knees.
Totally agree. Just 2 weeks earlier before watch this clip. I adjust the saddle a little bit low around 1 cm. than standard measurement height that I ride for years, that because I'm feel not comfortable to paddling when sit on the back end of the saddle. After changed I found the feeling as you mentions.
Track saddle heights are high because track ridders are on their toes (same as running sprinters), they front foot strike/drive. If your driving off your toes you are automatically taller than heal down. They are also more forward over the BB - so shorter distance; therefore saddle height also increases.
Hmm, I would say maybe depends on the discipline in track. I see on the track more lower saddle heights, but the in pursuit events similar to TT see a higher position
I increased my saddle height to reduce the stress on my patella and patellar tendon. But when My cadence is high - maybe above 110 on a fast descent- I shift to the front of the saddle to reduce the effective height.
I do that too, I slide forward to spin, and push back on the saddle if I am grinding a slower cadence. I go back and forth too to mix it up sometimes and I feel like it spreads the work.
In my peak racing years, the 80's, we all. sat terribly on our bikes, long stems, top tubes and high slammed back saddles, if memory serves I had a 14 stem, saddle setback was 9cm, reach 58.5 and saddle height 78.5 cm.. I was 180 cm tall. Probably a good reason why my lumbar was in such incredibly bad shape but could go up a hill... Fast forward to now, between age and a bad accident, I have lost around 2 cm in height and developed a 3cm left leg discrepancy (shorter) .. My saddle height, which is what you are referring to in the vid, is now 75.7 with a 2cm shim under my left shoe. I like others, partially blame his accident on the saddle height difference. There are other mitigating circumstances in my case, my thoracic compression and twisted hips, but I suspect Chris may have had similar injuries as well, shortening reach, saddle setback and saddle stem height difference was what got me comfy again on the bike..
Team I was on in the early 80's fitted me on a 62, for that stretched fit. Grossly oversized and unfortunately, I stayed with it until about 2010. Now I'm on a 56 and it's perfect. No doubt at all, had I have been properly fitted, I would have had much better results, like I am having now.
@@rickhuff9030 I think if I remember rightly, you should have been able to wrap your hand around the seat post, between saddle and frame, and not have any seat post showing... everyone had a 14 stem, and saddle slammed as far back as possible... how did we ever survive...? LOL
Brilliant video. You nailed the reasons. In particular riding in the drops with rotated forward pelvis really affects my ideal saddle height. I have to do the same thing. Make sure my saddle height isn't too high in the drops which means is has to be lower when adjusting to riding on the hoods. A too high saddle is uncomfortable for me in the perineum area when in the drops.
Good take! I’ve always felt too high of a saddle high puts too much in the glutes. And let’s not forget bike handling being difficult if you can’t feel the bottom of the stroke.
I ve never heard or knew that the more aero positions offer a larger reach. I can relate to preferring slightly lower seat height than a bike fitter might recommend. Like this video pointed out, I feel more dialed in.
i raised my saddle a little bit because i feel like my leg is not extending at a length that im comfortable with in an aero position or while climbing also because i moved the saddle more forward
In Chris Froome's book he talks about how at the saddle height recommended to him by bike fitters he would get saddle sores, so he lowered it until it was comfortable
I heard him somewhere saying you are not the same height when you wake up and when you are going to sleep. He plays with his saddle quite a lot and probably just used to his weird position. Others won't work for him without spending quite a lot of time because he was probably riding this way for his whole career.
Most people will lower their heels when doing substantial efforts (like in >85% of FTP). That shortens your effective leg length and so your saddle needs to come down.
Shawn Kelley was reputed to have ridden a much smaller frame than he should have. An old American champion, Texan John Howard had a similar "preying mantis" position on the bike to Froome's.
Interestingly if you look at footage of top riders in the 1950’s and 60’s most riders sit very low....also in the 1970’s I was fortunate enough to watch the likes of Eddy Merckx ,Peter Post,Patrick Sercu etc riding in a few 6 day events .....seat position of many riders very low ( good for spinning). Your view of ‘track’riders putting seat higher is for POWER. NOT spinning like the Madison or 200 lap points events. I do bike fit for people and very often end up moving folk forward and up on the seat and in order to pedal more efficiently. For the road I hasten to add.
I do not know his inseam, but the average inseam for a guy 186cm tall is 88.3cm So by standard formula 88.3x0.885=78.1455 Afaik he has saddle height of 79.5 cm so still 1.5cm higher than recommended. I am 183 and my inseam is exactly average with 86.6cm. I set my saddle height after the formula at 76.6cm So im just 3 cm smaller than but my saddle is 3cm lower. Guess froome has longer legs. I did play around with the height. When i set it up 2cm higher, higher cadence felt easier. ( This was when i was also just a beginner, started cycling 2 years ago. So i was just working my self up from 75 to 90 rpm) But lower saddle height is much more comfortable for longer rides. The high cadence 100rpm did not come as naturally. But now after some practice, i have no problem with 100 rpm, feels natural now. PLUS, the 2 cm lower seat position def feels a lil bit more aero! :)
It's simple. When power arrive due to not have strong body. The high rpm mean power and power at full range extension is more difficult than in à lower range of motion. U Can lift 60 pound but to move it quickly you have to move it near your body. Not full range of leg
Have you noticed every rider has an individual natural angle between there foot/ankle and lower leg, eg. Sagan has a very toes pointing down position, Froome a relative flat foot position. My point is this observation should be taken into consideration when setting seat height
Yep I've noticed this too, it's probably a combo of natural preference and bike fit that changes the ankle angle people naturally ride with. Doesn't appear to be something people can or should be trying to think about or change too much.
It very much should and is often ignored. Very toe down position though loses the foot as a moment arm to develop force. People often develop this toe down position because they have been fitted poorly and set up too high which is a common trend in the fitting world.
totally agree found all this out my trial and error in november readers, if you cant be comfortable at 90 rpm then ur saddle may be too high and your leg is extending too much
yeah its like if my road saddle is too high theres a dead spot at the end of my pedal stroke. So i lower it until the dead spot isn't there and i can spin fast. My track bike has a 51-14 ratio so yeah, its all power there no need to spin.
It's been a couple of years now, I'd guess it's more likely to be a lack of fitness or changed priorities as opposed to a lingering injury holding him back
Maybe the opposite question should be asked, why are most saddle positions set too high by professional fitters? You see in the pro peloton as well. Sure looking at a side view you make a judgement that a saddle is to low, but what about view from the back, how stable are his hip and pelvis at this position vs. a higher position. You are in the UK, have a conversation Steve Hogg to gain some insight. Just saying someone should be at a knee angle of 140 deg - 145 deg. misses the boat in many other areas.
And track riders generally sit more forward closer to the bottom bracket so maybe that explains the higher seat….. I also see a lot of bike fit commentary re people dropping their heels under stress so they recommend lower seat heights to cater for this.
You forgot foot extension to compensate for a higher saddle height and chaffing. In the examples given, track guys point their feet meaning that their saddle height is way too high but their effort is way shorter while Froome's feet are very stable (one less aching joint in the long run).
I ended up dropping my saddle now that I'm doing longer and slower rides, even moving my cleats back. If I start doing short crit races again. Not a very sustainable base miles position.
I may be wrong here, but I think sitting further forward on the saddle does increase your effective leg length. As every bike fitter will tell you, if you increase the for position of your saddle, it has to go up to compensate and vice versa if you increase aft.
The longer you ride the lower your saddle should be. But not too low ;-) I found it sometimes gets more complicated when switching to different saddle type/profile. There are shapes dedicated to more upward position which I feel better when riding lower. With saddles like Carbonio Superfly (different bike) I tend to ride a little bit higher. Just personal experience.
Random questions unrelated to video, but higher glycemic foods increase the absorbtion of glycogen to the muslces right? If you look away from digestion, is this directly linked to insuline which as I understand it, is what basically transfers glycogen to the muslces? And if this is true, would a person who would take exogenous insuline be able to absorb more than the natural 60-90 grams of carbs per hour treshold? I am absolutely not intending to do this, just curious as I find the topic really interesting. Again keep up the good work ;)
Not sure if you mentioned heel height/position playing a role in saddle height? I learned to fit a horizontal foot without fully extending knee and rocking hips. A constant high heel position contracts my posterior mid to lower extremity muscles too much. Froome first being a MTB racer may have brought over this foot position to road.
I've been thinking that I move around too much so therefore I must be doing something wrong with my saddle height. A revelatory moment. 👍 I can visulize myself being in drops and riding up on the nose or climbing a hill and being on the back and being annoyed that my position the saddle kept changing. Now, I have some ammunition to roll with it or perhaps another layer to scrutinize and obsess about.
We should not even be discussing the saddle height without addressing cleat position first. No data here. CF’s position is not even marked as final in the clip most of us saw. So little data. Not even a single word about glutes. Other channels discuss Bikefiting with bikefitters. Please, bring one to discuss this issue.
I would have thought it's more to do with the pedalling dynamics of fixed gear + high cadence. Would a higher saddle help smooth the bottom of the pedal stroke slightly?
Froomey has not been the same since the accident, I wonder if it is the injury that is also put him in that position. I know he use to run a lower seat before the accident, but maybe he is trying to hide or work around other issues at the moment too.
When I was looking at footage for this vid, his saddle height looked normal in 2021 (first year on ISN), definitely higher than he ran on INEOS. It's only this most recent bike fit vid where it appears he may be dropping it again. Possibly trying to go back to what worked for him in past years.
@@nerocoaching and hopefully this will bring him back a little! ;) It would be sad if his performance due to injuries and accidents completely diminished...
Jesse, I was personally fit by that bald guy, he is a spaniard doctor who has not only fitted Froome but many other professional cyclists, he knows what he is doing 😆
Crank length is also a factor to take into account. Don't track riders generally use shorter cranks which means the saddle has to be higher to preserve the same leg extension?
Froome said he gets niggles in his legs and knees. He has tried a higher seat hight before but didn't feel comfortable. His words: "I just feel more comfortable like this. Nothing fancy or scientific"
In bike fit every person's can be different biomedicaly, and all the DIY bike fit formulas and math won't do the job well and give a good result for every single person, because bike fit is so personal a generalized bike fit method isn't gonna cut it for athletes. We might seen it too low base from our perspective and our limited knowledge, but can be best solution for other with certain condition. The irony is most people set their saddle too hi thinking that a full leg extension gonna make them faster, nope, this is a repetitive movement sport not a single kick full power sport, so in cycling efficiency is the primary key.
My method for finding my saddle height is doing the inseam*0,887, then raising little by little til I feel that disconnect on the bottom of the pedal stroke. When you find that spot, you lower the saddle that last little before it was too high. The formula says I should use a 80.35 cm height, but I find my sweet spot is at 81.5 cm
I did the one carb bottle at Bowral and it worked a treat. Three bottles worth of SIS powder in one bottle, wasn't easy to dissolve but overnight was ok. I only ended up drinking that one bottle and one bottle of water. 2 total bottles over 150 km is probably a bit low but i got through it.
Your saddle does not look particularly low and the footage of you and your team mate riding along is nice. 🙂 Froome also sometimes drops his heels during hard efforts towards the bottom of his pedal stroke. He then has an effective greater knee angle. When pedalling easily, his heel doesn't seem to drop which then emphasises his already low saddle height even further.
I don't think we will see a big return for him to former glory. He's doing a lot of things business wise at the moment with investments (Factor bikes, Hammerhead, probably others) so it doesn't look like he's solely focused on riding like he was back in the day.
He won Tour the France - so his position is perfect for him😂 all that talk about knee and hip extension is about jesse and not Frome so basicly guesswork towards why Frome does What he does right?🤔
iPhone, passed through Airdop then Apple Photos share, always loses quality. On the ride we had a photographer who was focused on getting good stills, the vids weren't filmed on the main camera.
He’s won the Tour de France four times; his saddle height is good.
not always true
I am in the UK
EPO > Saddle Height 😂
Maybe if he followed some random youtubers opinion and raised his seat he'd win 5 ......... Yea right
He is good
The temptation to take the saddle up too much is so strong in our mind, that seems most of us are doing it without even knowing that we riding too high.
Once you lower a bit the saddle (5-10 mm), you suddenly feel so good!
No more of that uneasy feeling of ballet dancer, pedaling on your tow. No more sacrificing the control on the bike.
Less back pains, less neck pains and even less hands/wrists pain.
The power from your legs seems more balanced, because the pedaling cycle becomes rounder and not 'up and down' hammering.
Well, i have to tell you the feeling is amazing and it makes you feel good on your bike again, just the way it was when you were a kid riding on you BMX to the sea (without garmin yeh yeh..).
Thanks
Different riders, different physiologies, different bike sizes, different bike fits. Everyone has a different fit when it comes to bike fitting.
His crash a few years back may also impact his comfortable range of motion now too, cementing that lower saddle height as the most comfortable option.
it seems to me that many cyclists use such a low ride due to energy savings
Agreed - I broke my femur (same as Froome) and the surgery can cause a leg length discrepancy, meaning a lower saddle height is preferred to stop the rider sitting off-centre and favouring either leg
I’m loving that Jesse has finally churned through all those ‘intro’ videos and is now purely doing rabbit hole stuff. Good work. Nice editing touches too! 😘
Chris Froome is known for his high cadence which is easier with a lower saddle. Many people think higher is better but lower can be more efficient and comfortable.
His high cadence😂😂😂You mean 34 front chainring and his jumbo dinner plate rear gears. Soy boys on bikes
@@taichihead42 soy boys at the end of 3 weeks, how about you go join them.
I totally agree,Iv a wattbike and practice pedal stroke and I have to low saddle to perform it ,wen it’s higher you tend to stamp
lower feels so cramped and bad in the knees hahaha
Cleat position also has a huge impact on saddle height. The more your foot is in front of the pedal axle ,the shorter your saddle height gets.
Really good video. Only YOU, yourself can determine the perfect bike fit for yourself, not a bike fitter or someone else but you can get them to give you a bike fit to start up and you slowly make adjustments yourself on which position you're comfortable at in normal, sprint, aero and climbing position.
Froome had a lot of problems with saddle sores at the beginning of his career, he said he gradual dropped the height for comfort!
Thanks. Do you have the full article source? Will be an interesting read.
Excellent, Agree with all you say! Another thing about Froome is that he sits really far forward on the saddle, which makes it seem even lower. Most of us can't sit that far forward because there'd be too much weight on our arms but he's so light he can go far forward to reach the hoods on a very long stem. In any case I'm a fan of low saddle heights if your hip can handle the leg coming up a bit higher. The old school "pedal backwards with heels on pedals without hips rocking but with leg straight" is perfect for me.
Totally agree. I race(d) track and the saddle was high(ish), being a good 30mm higher than the roadie setup. Different horses for different courses. :)
Not a track racer or anything but two things maybe to consider are bottom brackets height is a fair bit higher on those track bikes and that would effect saddle height. The other thing is crank length. Just thought that might be a factor
The point about shifting forward and back on the saddle to get you some flexibility in your leg extension is a good one to consider.
That Rohan Dennis clip is hilarious, made even better by Froome cracking up in the rear view mirror
I followed the LeMond method at one time and always thought I was reaching somewhat, I put it down to lack of flexibility as much as anything, but eventually after countless trips to the chiropractor, I knew there had to be another way. I got a another fit and discovered just how much of a leg length difference I had, 3 cm, that threw my lumbar out. The fitter added a 1.5 cm shim ,and dropped my saddle 1.5 cm, and let my body absorb the 1.5 cm difference. It helped a lot, so I went from 77 cm to 75.5, and it ended up at 74.9, where it's stayed for years. That along with my cleats slammed back like they had always been, really helped me smooth out my pedaling with plenty of heel drop and I could really put out the power, climbing and on the flats. And my back hasn't given me a worry since.. So, for some, the Lemond method isn't the answer
Pedals, cleats and shoes all have a lower stack height now and the Lemond method was good in it's day with the equipment we used back then but it is too high for todays equipment.
An excellent and concise analysis. Just the right length and relevant content to keep it interesting. Well done, and thank you 👍
A track bike has a fixed gear. The momentum of the bike and rider pushes the pedal past the 6 o'clock position.
This video and the comment section talking about saddle height as if can you ride any amount of hours at any height, if anybody moves their saddle height 1.5cm lower or higher than what it should be it's a matter of time before you absolutely destroy hip muscles, it band and knees.
Totally agree. Just 2 weeks earlier before watch this clip. I adjust the saddle a little bit low around 1 cm. than standard measurement height that I ride for years, that because I'm feel not comfortable to paddling when sit on the back end of the saddle. After changed I found the feeling as you mentions.
Track saddle heights are high because track ridders are on their toes (same as running sprinters), they front foot strike/drive. If your driving off your toes you are automatically taller than heal down. They are also more forward over the BB - so shorter distance; therefore saddle height also increases.
Hmm, I would say maybe depends on the discipline in track. I see on the track more lower saddle heights, but the in pursuit events similar to TT see a higher position
Seeing you riding a Devel bike makes me super proud as a Filipino.
A saddle just below the height where the hips start rocking seams optimal.
Super commentary! Very helpful for my own set up.
I increased my saddle height to reduce the stress on my patella and patellar tendon. But when My cadence is high - maybe above 110 on a fast descent- I shift to the front of the saddle to reduce the effective height.
I do that too, I slide forward to spin, and push back on the saddle if I am grinding a slower cadence. I go back and forth too to mix it up sometimes and I feel like it spreads the work.
In my peak racing years, the 80's, we all. sat terribly on our bikes, long stems, top tubes and high slammed back saddles, if memory serves I had a 14 stem, saddle setback was 9cm, reach 58.5 and saddle height 78.5 cm.. I was 180 cm tall. Probably a good reason why my lumbar was in such incredibly bad shape but could go up a hill... Fast forward to now, between age and a bad accident, I have lost around 2 cm in height and developed a 3cm left leg discrepancy (shorter) .. My saddle height, which is what you are referring to in the vid, is now 75.7 with a 2cm shim under my left shoe. I like others, partially blame his accident on the saddle height difference. There are other mitigating circumstances in my case, my thoracic compression and twisted hips, but I suspect Chris may have had similar injuries as well, shortening reach, saddle setback and saddle stem height difference was what got me comfy again on the bike..
Team I was on in the early 80's fitted me on a 62, for that stretched fit. Grossly oversized and unfortunately, I stayed with it until about 2010. Now I'm on a 56 and it's perfect. No doubt at all, had I have been properly fitted, I would have had much better results, like I am having now.
@@rickhuff9030 I think if I remember rightly, you should have been able to wrap your hand around the seat post, between saddle and frame, and not have any seat post showing... everyone had a 14 stem, and saddle slammed as far back as possible... how did we ever survive...? LOL
A very good point of view!
Thanks
Look at all the old cycling photos from the 70s. They all rode low saddle heights. This high saddle is a new trend.
This is so helpful! Thank you
Brilliant video. You nailed the reasons. In particular riding in the drops with rotated forward pelvis really affects my ideal saddle height. I have to do the same thing. Make sure my saddle height isn't too high in the drops which means is has to be lower when adjusting to riding on the hoods. A too high saddle is uncomfortable for me in the perineum area when in the drops.
Good take! I’ve always felt too high of a saddle high puts too much in the glutes. And let’s not forget bike handling being difficult if you can’t feel the bottom of the stroke.
Too low my quads burn. Only problem I've have was having a saddle way too high I ended up with Achilles tendon pain.
I think it's mostly comfort. The lower saddle is less hip movement, very good when you're training nonstop.
Jesse - Q for your next Q&A: how does someone relatively new (2 years) to cycling get into crit racing etc?
Join a club and purchase race license, can't race without it
@@IJoAnZI do you need to be part of a club?
Excellent analysis and info. Thank you
Good insights and well explained. Thanks. All the best.
I ve never heard or knew that the more aero positions offer a larger reach. I can relate to preferring slightly lower seat height than a bike fitter might recommend. Like this video pointed out, I feel more dialed in.
i raised my saddle a little bit because i feel like my leg is not extending at a length that im comfortable with in an aero position or while climbing also because i moved the saddle more forward
In Chris Froome's book he talks about how at the saddle height recommended to him by bike fitters he would get saddle sores, so he lowered it until it was comfortable
Interesting!
I heard him somewhere saying you are not the same height when you wake up and when you are going to sleep. He plays with his saddle quite a lot and probably just used to his weird position. Others won't work for him without spending quite a lot of time because he was probably riding this way for his whole career.
There's quite a few interesting nuggets hidden in his book, worth a read IMO
Most people will lower their heels when doing substantial efforts (like in >85% of FTP). That shortens your effective leg length and so your saddle needs to come down.
Shawn Kelley was reputed to have ridden a much smaller frame than he should have. An old American champion, Texan John Howard had a similar "preying mantis" position on the bike to Froome's.
I read the answer to that on his book. The reason was because of a hurting knee after his first Giro de Italia.
Interestingly if you look at footage of top riders in the 1950’s and 60’s most riders sit very low....also in the 1970’s I was fortunate enough to watch the likes of Eddy Merckx ,Peter Post,Patrick Sercu etc riding in a few 6 day events .....seat position of many riders very low ( good for spinning). Your view of ‘track’riders putting seat higher is for POWER. NOT spinning like the Madison or 200 lap points events. I do bike fit for people and very often end up moving folk forward and up on the seat and in order to pedal more efficiently. For the road I hasten to add.
I do not know his inseam, but the average inseam for a guy 186cm tall is 88.3cm
So by standard formula 88.3x0.885=78.1455
Afaik he has saddle height of 79.5 cm so still 1.5cm higher than recommended.
I am 183 and my inseam is exactly average with 86.6cm.
I set my saddle height after the formula at 76.6cm
So im just 3 cm smaller than but my saddle is 3cm lower.
Guess froome has longer legs.
I did play around with the height.
When i set it up 2cm higher, higher cadence felt easier. ( This was when i was also just a beginner, started cycling 2 years ago. So i was just working my self up from 75 to 90 rpm)
But lower saddle height is much more comfortable for longer rides.
The high cadence 100rpm did not come as naturally. But now after some practice, i have no problem with 100 rpm, feels natural now.
PLUS, the 2 cm lower seat position def feels a lil bit more aero! :)
It's simple.
When power arrive due to not have strong body. The high rpm mean power and power at full range extension is more difficult than in à lower range of motion. U Can lift 60 pound but to move it quickly you have to move it near your body. Not full range of leg
Have you noticed every rider has an individual natural angle between there foot/ankle and lower leg, eg. Sagan has a very toes pointing down position, Froome a relative flat foot position. My point is this observation should be taken into consideration when setting seat height
Yep I've noticed this too, it's probably a combo of natural preference and bike fit that changes the ankle angle people naturally ride with. Doesn't appear to be something people can or should be trying to think about or change too much.
It very much should and is often ignored. Very toe down position though loses the foot as a moment arm to develop force. People often develop this toe down position because they have been fitted poorly and set up too high which is a common trend in the fitting world.
@@nerocoaching ankle position can change a lot with a bit of thought about it and appropriate positioning
You almost touched on it. It's also because he is a massive heel dropper at the bottom of the stroke.
totally agree
found all this out my trial and error in november
readers, if you cant be comfortable at 90 rpm then ur saddle may be too high and your leg is extending too much
Great B roll of you guys riding, setiing saddle height in your most aero postion makes logical sense. Great informative breakdown Jesse:)
yeah its like if my road saddle is too high theres a dead spot at the end of my pedal stroke. So i lower it until the dead spot isn't there and i can spin fast. My track bike has a 51-14 ratio so yeah, its all power there no need to spin.
Loved the pause at ‘offset’😂 still don’t know what this is exactly.
Also wonder if Froome is still not 100% recovered from his injuries?
It's been a couple of years now, I'd guess it's more likely to be a lack of fitness or changed priorities as opposed to a lingering injury holding him back
That Devel bike looks good, glad to see an All Philippine bike brand getting more attention
Maybe the opposite question should be asked, why are most saddle positions set too high by professional fitters? You see in the pro peloton as well. Sure looking at a side view you make a judgement that a saddle is to low, but what about view from the back, how stable are his hip and pelvis at this position vs. a higher position. You are in the UK, have a conversation Steve Hogg to gain some insight. Just saying someone should be at a knee angle of 140 deg - 145 deg. misses the boat in many other areas.
And track riders generally sit more forward closer to the bottom bracket so maybe that explains the higher seat….. I also see a lot of bike fit commentary re people dropping their heels under stress so they recommend lower seat heights to cater for this.
I ride single speed in a hilly area, having a lower saddle helps so much
You forgot foot extension to compensate for a higher saddle height and chaffing. In the examples given, track guys point their feet meaning that their saddle height is way too high but their effort is way shorter while Froome's feet are very stable (one less aching joint in the long run).
Same happens with time trial positions. Take a look at Ganna's feet on regular stages vs TTs.
I ended up dropping my saddle now that I'm doing longer and slower rides, even moving my cleats back. If I start doing short crit races again. Not a very sustainable base miles position.
I may be wrong here, but I think sitting further forward on the saddle does increase your effective leg length. As every bike fitter will tell you, if you increase the for position of your saddle, it has to go up to compensate and vice versa if you increase aft.
Compared with modern triathletes such as Ruth Astle, I'm amazed at how old fashioned and un-aero that TT position looks!
Thanks Jesse.
The longer you ride the lower your saddle should be. But not too low ;-)
I found it sometimes gets more complicated when switching to different saddle type/profile. There are shapes dedicated to more upward position which I feel better when riding lower. With saddles like Carbonio Superfly (different bike) I tend to ride a little bit higher. Just personal experience.
Random questions unrelated to video, but higher glycemic foods increase the absorbtion of glycogen to the muslces right? If you look away from digestion, is this directly linked to insuline which as I understand it, is what basically transfers glycogen to the muslces? And if this is true, would a person who would take exogenous insuline be able to absorb more than the natural 60-90 grams of carbs per hour treshold? I am absolutely not intending to do this, just curious as I find the topic really interesting. Again keep up the good work ;)
Great video - may also have calf and hip problems so lower saddle position helps
Lower saddle is often worse for hips. Higher saddle shorter cranks often better.
@@danielvdl7555 Yes - I switched to 165ml cranks
Not sure if you mentioned heel height/position playing a role in saddle height? I learned to fit a horizontal foot without fully extending knee and rocking hips. A constant high heel position contracts my posterior mid to lower extremity muscles too much. Froome first being a MTB racer may have brought over this foot position to road.
I've been thinking that I move around too much so therefore I must be doing something wrong with my saddle height. A revelatory moment. 👍
I can visulize myself being in drops and riding up on the nose or climbing a hill and being on the back and being annoyed that my position the saddle kept changing.
Now, I have some ammunition to roll with it or perhaps another layer to scrutinize and obsess about.
Noticed Pogacar's saddle is also 'low', as is alaphilippe's
If Froome still runs the osymmetric chainrings then this would also probably be a factor.
We should not even be discussing the saddle height without addressing cleat position first. No data here.
CF’s position is not even marked as final in the clip most of us saw.
So little data.
Not even a single word about glutes.
Other channels discuss Bikefiting with bikefitters. Please, bring one to discuss this issue.
Chris Froome has longer femur bone and shorther Quads. That's the reasons why his saddle his lower than normal of 0.883*insime height.
Will saddle height regarding efficiency and injury prevention it's always better to err on the low side
I fit myself too. And you explain the exactly the right way i want to feel on my bike 3:00 - 4:17 . Thanks bro. Im nit alone here. Lul.
I would have thought it's more to do with the pedalling dynamics of fixed gear + high cadence. Would a higher saddle help smooth the bottom of the pedal stroke slightly?
Higher will make it worse if your stretching
Froomey has not been the same since the accident, I wonder if it is the injury that is also put him in that position. I know he use to run a lower seat before the accident, but maybe he is trying to hide or work around other issues at the moment too.
When I was looking at footage for this vid, his saddle height looked normal in 2021 (first year on ISN), definitely higher than he ran on INEOS. It's only this most recent bike fit vid where it appears he may be dropping it again. Possibly trying to go back to what worked for him in past years.
@@nerocoaching and hopefully this will bring him back a little! ;) It would be sad if his performance due to injuries and accidents completely diminished...
He gets knee pain if he puts in any higher, gcn did a video on it once
Jesse, I was personally fit by that bald guy, he is a spaniard doctor who has not only fitted Froome but many other professional cyclists, he knows what he is doing 😆
I concurred. And great to see rim brakes bicycles. Disc brakes ruined the look and the aerodynamic of the bicycles.
Cool Devel bike out there 🇵🇭
devel = beauty
Crank length is also a factor to take into account. Don't track riders generally use shorter cranks which means the saddle has to be higher to preserve the same leg extension?
I swear he actually looked to be running his saddle too high if anything last season
Yep I noticed this as well, maybe ISN moved him up, now he's dropping it back to how he used to run it
Froome said he gets niggles in his legs and knees. He has tried a higher seat hight before but didn't feel comfortable. His words: "I just feel more comfortable like this. Nothing fancy or scientific"
It's about the rider not what you see.
In bike fit every person's can be different biomedicaly, and all the DIY bike fit formulas and math won't do the job well and give a good result for every single person, because bike fit is so personal a generalized bike fit method isn't gonna cut it for athletes.
We might seen it too low base from our perspective and our limited knowledge, but can be best solution for other with certain condition.
The irony is most people set their saddle too hi thinking that a full leg extension gonna make them faster, nope, this is a repetitive movement sport not a single kick full power sport, so in cycling efficiency is the primary key.
He is using oval chainrings. Surely this requires a different fit.
Do your research. Read his biography, and you'll see why.
It may also be because he uses non-round rings.
My method for finding my saddle height is doing the inseam*0,887, then raising little by little til I feel that disconnect on the bottom of the pedal stroke. When you find that spot, you lower the saddle that last little before it was too high.
The formula says I should use a 80.35 cm height, but I find my sweet spot is at 81.5 cm
I did the one carb bottle at Bowral and it worked a treat. Three bottles worth of SIS powder in one bottle, wasn't easy to dissolve but overnight was ok. I only ended up drinking that one bottle and one bottle of water. 2 total bottles over 150 km is probably a bit low but i got through it.
DEVEL bike brand,made from Philippines?!
I am very comfortable with that position i am not racing anyone ..
Track saddle is superior. Road saddle causes a lot of fatigue
Your saddle does not look particularly low and the footage of you and your team mate riding along is nice. 🙂
Froome also sometimes drops his heels during hard efforts towards the bottom of his pedal stroke. He then has an effective greater knee angle. When pedalling easily, his heel doesn't seem to drop which then emphasises his already low saddle height even further.
Apparently our heels drop naturally when climbing so if your saddle is at the limit on the flat your gunna over stretch on a climb
Bike fit james, best advice for setup.
Speaking of Froome, do you think he's done or is there some magic left there? I (sadly) think he's done.
I don't think we will see a big return for him to former glory. He's doing a lot of things business wise at the moment with investments (Factor bikes, Hammerhead, probably others) so it doesn't look like he's solely focused on riding like he was back in the day.
He aint got nothing left to prove. Won 4 tours and then some. He is enjoying his life riding bikes and getting paid now.
Er, because that's where he likes it? Obviously works.
He won Tour the France - so his position is perfect for him😂 all that talk about knee and hip extension is about jesse and not Frome so basicly guesswork towards why Frome does What he does right?🤔
The answer is because he's a hubbard
Thought on MVDP’s saddle height?
Looks normal, actually everything about MVDP's setup is average, aside from his bike handing and fitness
Were the B-Roll Nero shots filmed with a Nokia?
iPhone, passed through Airdop then Apple Photos share, always loses quality. On the ride we had a photographer who was focused on getting good stills, the vids weren't filmed on the main camera.
He is sitting normal.
Wait I thought this was the Dylan Johnstone channel 🧐😁
Just to be cool my saddle height is through the roof
I run my saddle low because I'm short 🤣🤣