Bad Road Surfaces: Do THIS, NOT THIS to avoid the crash!
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- Опубліковано 11 лип 2024
- Let's conclude our series of riding under certain scenarios with some tips for riding with bad road conditions.
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I’ve hydroplaned twice this year, it’s an unexpected situation, but quickly backed off power and let the bike correct itself
I have hydroplaned twice in my life and both times were on a rear tire I should’ve changed earlier. Tires are cheap compared to crashing!
Key word......Smooooooth. Sometimes hard to do.
In addition to my (rather lengthy) other comment about winter riding, I'll add that there are many road conditions in warmer temperatures that can lead to a near total loss of traction and grip. Examples are leaves, oil or diesel spill, mud, gravel or sand, evergreen tree needles (astonishingly slippery from experience), horse/cattle excrements, and so on.
It's not realistic to train physically in a safe manner for sudden loss of traction, but it's probably good to think about it so that your brain and reflexes is a little more prepared if it happens. :)
Not black ice, brown ice
9:57 Standing up RAISES the centre of gravity, but more importantly with knees flexed a bit the rider won't be tossed into the air. The rider's CG will be less displaced and so there will be less of a disturbance placed on the bike. Exactly the same mechanics apply to a jockey on a galloping horse, which is why jockeys are standing in the stirrups, knees highly bent and body crouched forward. A bouncing rider disturbs a galloping horse's action and wastes energy, slowing the horse down and potentially injuring it. Simple application of Newton's Second Law of Motion (the law of inertia).
Thanks, Kevin. Last Sunday, I was returning from a trip riding through the twisties. Even though it's the dry season in my country and rain wasn't expected, it started raining heavily out of nowhere while I was in a desolate place with no shelter. I had to stop, put on my rain gear, and then resume my journey. These videos and constant practice are undeniably important. Thanks again, Kevin!.
Few years ago I was riding down in Texas and come up on a freshly made Road, freshly made Texas style that is. Spray oil down covered up with pea gravel and let the traffic pack get down. Only the traffic had not packed it down had just barely started, so I'm on about 3 inches of loose pea gravel that's on top of oil and it was slick I was doing 75 when I hit it I did what you did in your story just as I started to feeling like I had a little bit of control ahead of it it started raining and all that oil started floating to the top.! I had already gotten to speed I was comfortable with for the gravel, so then I had to keep falling down until I found one I was comfortable with for both situations. Luckily I found it and right after I did it quit raining LOL . But that taught me a lot about my own skills and how to handle that kind of situation or a situation like it. The bike I was on was a 94 Electra Glide
My friend And I happened onto a freshly tared and loose gravel road on a back county road and it was not fun. I did what you suggested, just pulled in the clutch and slowed down and tried to stay relaxed for about four miles til we were able to get off it. The bike just wobbled around due to the loose gravel. My bike is equipped with traction control as well and probably helped. My friends bike did not have it and he said that was a training course for a lot of things.
Thanks again for all you do Kevin.
I had a similar situation maybe a month into riding my rogue. It had been raining the night before I had to go to work and I was taking a route that took me out on a main street. Turning onto the street I noticed a drainage grate too late and my bike tire rolled over it and slipped out. Thankfully it was all over and no incident in a matter of a split second. But I naturally reacted by letting off of the throttle and just let the bike roll under momentum. This was really my first motorcycle. So I was surprised I had enough common sense to handle a situation I’ve never been in before. My God that split second felt like a minute in that moment though. Lol.
TL;DR: get studded, knobbed tyres if there is any chance of ice. Stay warm and protected. Train yourself for slippery conditions in a safe, enclosed space.
I agree with your tips about handling a slide in progress, but I'd like to add some (quite a few, as it turned out) tips about how to prepare yourself and your motorcycle for riding on cold roads. Preparation and the right tyres/bike is strictly necessary even if you don't expect ice, as long as the temperature is below 5 degrees celsius you WILL eventually encounter ice on that bridge or in that shadowy canyon (or behind that random porta-potty in the road). It's a "when, not if"-situation.
I have been daily commuting street legal MCs and scooters on public roads in ice and snow for about 20 years in Norway. I ride absolutely every workday with no exceptions, often in a lot of snow and ice, and with temperatures down to 20 degrees Celsius below zero. I naturally also ride in spring and fall with cold temperatures, but dry roads.
Tyres: riding in freezing temperatures REQUIRES soft-rubbered knobbed tyres with a rubber mix designed for cold temperatures, even if there is no ice in sight. Your summer tyres will loose a lot of grip even on dry roads due to the rubber getting stiffer. A street tyre without knobs turns into a non-directional frictionless skate on even a sub-millimeter layer of snow or ice. Also, studs are a must, you WILL encounter ice sooner or later. Do yourself a favour and get professionally studded winter approved tyres for this purpose, change tyres with the season if you use the same bike for winter and summer. Studs will decrease grip on dry roads slightly, but coupled with soft rubber tyres it should not be a problem. Try not to lock your brakes on bare asfalt as you'll loose studs that way, and will have to replace studs or tyre.
Braking: ABS in a car is designed for snow and ice, but on an MC ABS doesn't really work on snow or ice, it's not designed for that and will lock anyway. DO NOT trust your front ABS to save you from a front slide. Instead you must accustom yourself to dual braking, apply most of your brake power on the rear brake while only supporting with the front brake. Steer your front wheel into your direction of travel to avoid a front slide, if you try to use it to adjust your curve you'll low-side. Learn how your motorcycle handles very little grip by finding a slippery parking lot with snow, or a designated slippery training ground. Learn to apply your rear brake softly and keep the rear wheel rolling, if slipping you might avoid a fall and get a rear slide instead.
Edit: I fully agree that ABS on MCs are life savers, always go for the ABS version if you can. ABS is faster and more precise than you and will help you in most situations, just not on ice :)
Control: train on how to balance in a rear slide by applying steering and soft rear brake leaving the rear wheel slightly rolling, in both left and right side slides. Locking the rear wheel will make you slide out. This is not like riding on gravel or sand, a rear slide will slide out far more than you're used to and can lead to a sudden low-side. Provoke rear slides at slow speed, learn how to release rear brake accurately and recover from it. A front slide will be more difficult to recover from and can slam you to the ground fast, so adjust your speed and leave yourself space to stop before sliding out into meeting traffic if you should go down.
Edit: in snow, and to a lesser degree on ice if you have studs, "a twist of the wrist" (applying throttle and rear wheel spin) can also help you stabilize and recover from a rear slide. And it's a ton of fun :)
Bike choice: use an MX or adventure bike, or at least do not choose a wildly inappropriate one like a cruiser or a crotch rocket. It'll help if you're able to support the weight of your bike with a leg at speed if you should lose control, so if you're not tall and strong consider getting a small MX bike or even a cross-style moped for learning winter riding. Larger adventure bikes are more stable due to their weight and can be a good alternative, but are of course heavier and far more difficult to "wrestle" if you're on the verge of falling. I've ridden Yamaha WR250R, Honda CRF300L, BMW 310GS and Transalp, all are suitable. Smaller cross mopeds and even Vespa scooters work fine (I winter-rode a manual Vespa for many years before moving on to MC), but you need manual transmission and a clutch. Automatics or electrics will cause rear wheel spin, traction control is also useless as it's not designed for very slippery conditions.
Heat: get warm clothes, dress in layers, use heated gloves and liners if necessary. Heat is nice for comfort, but most importantly you'll react faster and more precisely if you're not uncomfortably cold. Your hands and feet are the most important for control, but you should be reasonably comfortable as well to keep your focus on riding, you'll need it. Old-fashioned nylon "old-guy-equipment" a size too large is actually is quite nice for this, as it's windproof and enables you to put on some fleece underneath. This is what I do to handle -19 degrees Celsius (-2 Fahrenheit).
Padding: for winter riding you want to wear a robust padded riding suit. I use nylon/kevlar as mentioned above. Equip a turtleback and armor pads on knees, elbows, shoulders and hips. By luck and coincidence I have never gone down, but I fully expect to lowside some day and plan for it by always wearing all the equipment and always planning to leave myself "sliding space" in traffic. It becomes second nature after a while.
Did I mention studded, knobbed tyres? :)
HD Riding Academy has a “surface traction activity” at the beginning of day two of the Nee Rider Course (BRC) that covers many traction challenges…
Went down usual dirt roads to work. On way home the road grader had graded the roads. On an adv bike but was more challenge then I would like.
GREETINGS FROM THE PPRC GREAT VIDEO TODAY, THANKS FOR DOING THEM.
Great advice I never thought about icey roads
Live in canada an rode bikes year round , went through two of the old 4 cylinder goldwings to drive in the winter , laid them down many times on ice , i used to stay sitting on the bike but of course pull that lower leg up an wait for it to stop sliding in stead of letting go , if someone is behind you much better for him to try to dodge 1 thing than 2 on glare ice and on ice it will happen there's nothing you can do , clutch don't brake if you spot it but half the time you don't an i would say most of the time in the dark
Prevention is the best, however we train for the unavoidable as well. Like blue or brown ice you experienced Kevin. Let us not forget,we dress for when all else fails us. This was an excellent video and if you ride enough you will have experience like the ones Kevin shared, train for it!
Riding through Oregon in early April one year and on the I-5 on the way to California, hit a sleet storm while doing 605-70 mph. Couldn’t see anything except the white line on my left of the shoulder/oncoming lane divider. Heavy traffic with transport semis etc. No option other than carry on until I outrode the storm.
Pucker factor of 14 out of 10.
Another great situation for a video. Some of these situations (potential crashes) can last what seems like a long time. I agree the training, relax and remove power. During mine I did that and overcorrected and then overcame that overcorrection. I never thought that you would have enough time to think during the situations but it happens like you recorded.
I got a story..
On a 91 softy coming off a on ramp to a freeway, exseletating to 60mph banking left , Hit some cow/horse dung felt my bike slipping out from under me. Looked in the mirror. It was full of headlights ( night time ) a concrete wall to the right after one lane width. I picked up the bike straight. Rode out of the crap the bike flicked when I hit clean road and re banked into the corner as by then I changed a lane. I put my saving it to mud experience just knew what to do.
I have a kangaroo story too. Now that one was a bit scary
That does give a new meaning to “black ice”.
Had a similar situation as your ice scare. I live in Ontario, Canada just above the New York state border. Love running the country rural areas. Had turned onto a township road and was surprised to see that obviously some township road crew though it was a good idea to spray a oil based road cover over a paved road. Duhhhh. It was like ice. I decided it was best to continue because the road was narrow and I dare not try to make a U turn on the unstable surface. It lasted a couple of miles before I made dry surface again. I reported to the provincial police. Spent the rest of the day cleaning the oil off the bike and the unmentionable crap out of my shorts.😂
It looked like a cement truck dropped the slag from their bumper right in the center of the lane. Dropped the trottle, no swerve was gonna happen, so I got up on the pegs and jumped it.
Been riding for weeks after that and now my fork has clown shoes! Squeak squeak!
Survived and ride on.
Similar thing happened to me, low water crossing in the summer, not a big deal. Yes it was that stuff was as slick as and ice and I felt it standing to slide. Like you I pulled the clutch, returned the throttle to idle, looked to see where the end was. I don’t remember even thinking about it, I just reacted. It all worked out great, I made it to the other side but really needed to go home and change my shorts.😂
Once happen to me at corner, never thought dried oil on road still has kick, almost went off cliff. Now l've got suspicion about stain on road.
Thanks about the abs, never thought also abs has weakness.
Most highsides that I have seen resulted from a rear wheel skid due to engine braking on a slippery surface, then regaining traction.
I don't think that I have seen a traditional example of a highside caused rear brake lockup, then regaining traction when the brake is released. But obviously, a rear brake lockup then release can cause a highside.
Am I right to assume that maintaining the throttle with the clutch lever pulled would have kept the motor turning at the appropriate rpm for the gear you were in and your rear wheel speed when you regained traction on clean pavement? That “chirp” you heard was the rear wheel matching the “ground speed” when traction was regained, right?
Good post. Thanks Kev.
No, by pulling in the clutch you will unload the engine and the engine RPM will increase dramatically. If you pull the clutch lever in you would need to back off of the throttle to match the RPM the engine was turning when you pulled in the clutch. If you can do this, and it's a BIG if, your theory would work but in practice it's going to be very difficult. The best thing you can do is let the clutch out slowly so there is no abrupt change in engine load while slightly increasing the engine speed. Whenever you hear a chirp something was not done smoothly.
Good question...The chirp...I believe...was the rear tire coming back into alignment with the front.
But don’t we practice “maintenance throttle” all the time? Isn’t smooth management of all the bike’s controls one of the most important aspects of smart riding? As an off road rider, maintaining constant throttle, even and especially when rear wheel traction is deliberately broken, is a necessary skill.
(Everyone needs a dirt bike! 😎)
with the clutch lever pulled in there will no longer be any drive to the rear wheel .@@johnnylightning1491
Are you sure standing lowers the center of gravity? I think it raises the center of gravity. when you stand up it lets the motorcycle move around under you more easily give you more control.
Because all of your weight is now on the footpegs it is lowering the center of gravity for the bike.
Not correct, it is more complicated. If you stand up and stay rigid the center of mass raises if you sit it lowers. What you are actually doing is that you are decoupling your mass from the bike, that way the bike can move more on its own giving the effect of a lower center of mass.
@@ricoxjansen 🤔
@@MCriderhmm... Typically when one talks about the "center of gravity", they are referring to the center for all the parts, which is bike+rider. If you stand on the foot pegs (raising your body), you are raising the center of gravity of the bike+rider "system".
I don't think it makes sense to talk about centers of gravity of the individual parts when they are coupled/attached to each other... The bike weighs what it weighs and it's shape is always the same so it's COG is always the same when upright (not accounting for fuel which raises COG some when full). Also the rider's COG is always near the belly button -- about 1" below the navel -- whether squatting, sitting, standing. The COG goes up/down based on where your navel is when you squat/sit/stand. Put rider+bike together then the combined system's COG is somewhere above the bike's individual COG and below the rider's navel. Standing up on the pegs raises the rider's navel, which raises the system's COG.
Definitely agree on your point to stand on the pegs and use your knees as the shock absorbers when crossing over some bumpy terrain -- better for your knees to absorb that force than your spine.
Fun fact: the COG of the combined Sun+Earth system is about 250 miles from the Sun's center -- so we don't orbit the Sun's exact center -- both the Sun and Earth revolve around a point 250 miles from the Sun's (excluding the gravitational effects from all the other planets/moons). Check out: Barycenter.
@@MCrider
Kevin, it feels like the center on mass is lower because the motorcycle can adjust quicker and it can be more stable. But the center of mass is higher. Here is the explanation.
The motorcycle can respond quicker because by standing we can easily let the motorcycle move under us. This is a lot like what is taught in the swerve exercises in the BRC. We let the bike lean under us as our upper body stays upright. With less to lean we can swerve quicker. Same when we are standing.
The greater stable comes from standing without letting the motorcycle move under us. With sport bikes the manufacturers talk about centralized mass to make learning the motorcycle from side to side quicker. Centralized mass makes the motorcycle less stable. Standing decentralizes the mass and make the motorcycle more stable.
These two things are switched between by which foot we are weighting and how we are squeezing the motorcycle with our legs. Hence using are feet and legs are important when riding off road or on rough unpaved roads.
Great video, I have a question about an exercise in the field guide. I’m confused about the dimensions on the off set cone weave. Are the four cones 15 feet apart? The picture in the field guide looks like they’re 27 feet apart. Thanks Kevin!
Would add to the series riding in high winds, which is really an issue in some parts of the country
My greatest discomfort in the last 20,000 miles riding was high winds. I don't know what to do other than slow a bit and try to relax. I'd rather ride in a downpour than high, inconsistent side winds.
@@got_to_roll Agree, especially if I ride my T7, which is a tall bike, and the wind really blows it all over the road. I live in Nevada, we have open roads, and no place to hide from the wind, and the gusts are brutal
I ride a SuperTenere. Also tall, but heavier. Eastern Washington gets very windy, and very inconsistent winds. One thing to lean into it and ride, can't do that when it's swirling up a river gorge. Unnerving!
Coming off of the brakes will save you in pretty much any low traction situation.
So as far as the ABS is concerned, that’s cool, but I find it very not helpful on gravel because you need to lock up the wheel sometimes so I have a lot break in the front but I have drone brakes in the back and there is no lot brakes in the back. They’re fully mechanical there is not even any brake fluid involved so I can do whatever I need to with that but I know that it does not have an unlock, but at least I have a lot in the front where I believe it should be if I know that I’m just gonna be doing gravel. I can always take out the fuse if I want to, and then I don’t have ABS at all and then I can put it back in when I get back on the pavement, and just being able to lock the back has been good enough
What about grass-cutting on the road, I know Grasscutting on a straight road is not as bad as on a Curvy road
Grass clippings can definitely reduce traction, just as anything else on the road surface: dust, dirt, gravel, oil, water, leaves, grass clipping, ice, etc. Even the painted stripes and "tar snakes" significantly reduce traction, and especially so when wet (painted stripes) or very hot (for the tar snakes).
Pretty much anything that is not "clean dry asphalt" is taking away traction.
Remain calm. #1. SO many crashes are caused by bad rider input.
When will the leather covered field guide be available again? Thanks.
I added more to the store yesterday. www.MCrider.com/FGBook
When temperature drops below 45 degrees, tires start to loose traction which makes breaking, cornering and acceleration les reliable and more difficult. Training is fine but riding in 15 degrees temperature is definitely not safe. « An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure »
Once the clutch is squeezed in, rolling off the throttle is unnecessary at that very moment. Correct?
I have a road situation that I’ve never heard talked about for motorcyclists. How do you handle the difference between lanes during repaving? Sometimes there’s 3-4” and you have to go to the higher pavement.
Take it at as steep an angle as you can. Changing lanes at a shallow angle can easily wash your tires out.
I just got a small bike,they said be careful for the first 600 miles.the tires come from the factory with something on them that makes them slippery.what? My question is what can i clean them with or just get new tires? Is road wear the only way to remove it?
Kevin, with my DCT removing power with no manual clutch lever to pull in and coast, can I hit neutral on the right handlebar do you think ?
You are probably best just rolling completely off the throttle.
I just want to remind you that the DCT does in fact have an internal clutch. For example, the Honda CMX1100 DCT Rebel (my bike) has a dual clutch transmission which is capable of downshifting rapidly as you decelerate in emergency situations. Deceleration gradually or completely is key when you’re in situations where the surface is slippery when riding a DCT, and hopefully the bike will correct itself once you’ve passed the danger without you making any abrupt movements to the bike which could cause a very unpleasant experience! Stay safe. 👍
@@RollWithSoul317 clarified my request.
rolling off the throttle with the clutch engaged (trans/motor connected)= engine braking = rear wheel braking
@@tommeyer6033 True with a manual bike, but not on a DCT which the previous commenter was referring to. 👍
if you pull in the clutch, what is the importance of rolling offf the throttle ?
Other than preventing the engine from reving up it isn't that important.
I have seen bad things happening from not rolling off the throttle when squeezing the clutch. I have seen riders squeezing the clutch without rolling off the throttle, engine revs up, rider gets spooked by reving engine, rider dumps clutch, then bad things happen. This may sound silly. But I have seen it multiple times.
🦅🏁🦅👍
When you look down, you go down.
Look in the direction you want your bike to go because the bike wants to go in the direction you're looking.
Practice makes permanent. Learn better practices.
Shitty situation, it’s a good thing you didn’t dump the bike. Rrrr
11:35 Brakes don't stop vehicles. They stop the tires. Friction between the tires and the road is what stops the vehicle. ABS isn't a problem if there's no traction. You're not stopping regardless.
I agree with most of your videos, when you brag up abs I strongly disagree. I hate abs. You went on to explain exactly why I hate it, in the northeast we have a lot of ice and snow, when we don’t we have a lot of salt or sand on the road. Antilock turns into anti stop brakes and as a first responder I can’t tell you how many accidents I’ve responded to because of anti stop brakes. During the summer we have the same road conditions as the rest of the country and fresh rain on oil can be dangerous and anti stop brakes cause people to run into stuff. I drive for a living, I travel in excess of 100,000 miles a year and not once have I ever seen abs work as intended. It’s a great concept but in the real world it doesn’t help. Just my opinion from over 3 million miles in the road.
The best advice, don't ride on yellow ice.
Clutch in first, then let off throttle. Rolling of the throttle can cause the same reaction as rear breaking. This is similar to sand.
You used the term Parallel when I am pretty sure you meant top say Perpendicular. Not being picky, just an observation.
Dear Kevin, Standing on the pegs DOES NOT LOWER THE CENTRE OF GRAVITY/CENTRE OF MASS. Other than that I enjoyed your message, as always. Robert.
Of course it does. The weight is standing on something lower.
Standing up *raises* the center of gravity.
I just got a. Indian Road master elite 2024