Dave Sim: 3 Minutes About Misogyny
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- Опубліковано 8 вер 2024
- "I think that equating opposition to feminism with misogyny is the same as suggesting that the only reason to not be a communist is that you hate working people. I don't hate working people. I don't hate communists, I don't hate women, and I don't hate feminists. I don't hate anybody. I keep my political discussions completely free from emotion because I think emotion has no place in a political discussion."
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There is a big difference between simply opposing feminism and claiming that, on a metaphysical level, men are a creative light and women are a parasitic void that subsists by consuming that light. Here are some direct quotes from Dave: "The Male Light and the Female Void: Seminal Energy and Omnivorous Parasite." "If you look at her and see anything besides emptiness, fear and emotional hunger, you are looking at the parts of yourself which have been consumed to that point." ""Behind this...lies the Greater Void, the Omnivorous Engine which drives every... institutionalised waste of human time and energy, which drives, in point of fact, our entire degraded society. The wife and kids."
I suggest the people defending Dave go out and actually read "Tangent" and "Writings from Reads." This goes way beyond an opposition to feminism. Also, his arguments are quite poor because he makes inferences about all women based on the small sample of women he's interacted with or seen on television/read about (this is the hasty generalization fallacy). In terms of other evidence, he offers little more than proof by repeated assertion of his conclusion. Stating the same opinion over and over again and phrasing it in different ways is not compelling evidence. His position that women are irrational and emotional seems to be, ironically enough, built on a foundation of logical fallacies.
Even in this video, he simply restates his conclusion over and over again (i.e. he isn't a misogynist) instead of providing a compelling argument that demonstrates why the views he espoused in his work concerning women are not misogynistic and have been inaccurately labeled as such. The entire point of an argument is to convince someone of a conclusion that they do not yet believe.
Also here are links to "Writings from Reads" and "Tangent." Read them and decide for yourselves : www.theabsolute.net/misogyny/sim.html
www.theabsolute.net/misogyny/tangents.html
I haven't read Tangent yet, just because I don't want spoilers. But I did read Reads.
Sim's argument there (provided that the writings represent Sim's view, which isn't obvious since he presents a different version of himself as their author, while in other parts of the books he appears and speaks as himself) are radical but solid. Many passages are simply indisputable.
Is everything held against women misogynistic? I don't think so. I think "misogynistic" is a charged term, it includes a bad judgement in the "miso" part. It relies on the assumption of the interchangeability of sexes, so that saying really bad things about women must be sign of hatred, and hatred a sign of fear. Is this really true? Do I have to hate and fear soccer, for example, to despise it?
We live in an era in which is impossible to say really bad things about women without being targeted as a psycho, while the opposite (saying really bad things about men) is almost a sign of intellectual prestige. Then I ask you: why should misogyny be such an important concept while misandry is an obscure word few people know the meaning of? Maybe there's a problem with our perception of balance? Why nobody said anything against Cerebus misandry around issue 110? That was just perfect wasn't it? All evil came from males. Nobody protested that. Then in number 186 everything is turned on its side and Sim becomes public enemy #1. Why is it that misogyny is a problem while misandry is not?
Dave didn't kill or steal and many tried to destroy the man's career for ideological bullshit. He wrote what he was experiencing at the time. It's called literature. The problem is the fan of comics. People who don't know how to deal with controversies, unlike people in the literature. If people are shocked by Dave, then what would they say if they read books ... Speaking of books, comic book fans think everything is a Harry Potter fandom, or whatever. The fan of American / Canadian comics does not know how to deal with controversies. Immature.
@@pedrot.9569 If you're creating a work very ideologically charged, don't be surprised if people call you out if the ideology you're presenting is opposed by a large amount of your readers. It's common sense.
Dave's carreer also hasn't been destroyed. He decided he had been casted out from the comic community but that couldn't be further from the truth. To name two examples, both Gail Simone and Deni Loubert (Dave's ex-wife) keep encouraging people to read Cerebus despite whatever preconception they can have out of Dave's fame.
What I find weird though is that Jaka and Astoria are the most level-headed characters on the book, while Cerebus, The Roach and others act on a whim.
@@Solaire_of_Astora13 who said anyone was surprised?
Maldito David Sim ahora no puedo decir públicamente que me gusta Cerebus
Yeah I'm a woman and I agree.
Dave is like every man who insists their ideas are correct because they derive from logic and not emotion, but the truth is every single one of Dave's words are emotionally driven. He is no different than Jordan Peterson or Ben Shapiro or Andrew Tate in his supremely biased worldview. I read Cerebus for many years, and (mostly) loved the art and the story right up until the end. I did not love the back pages, and stopped reading his essays a long time ago. The 15 Impossible Things to Believe are as ridiculous as they were when he first published them, and any person who isn't completely indoctrinated with "male rights" can see through his thinly veiled misogynistic manifesto to see how truly weak these statements are. Just like someone who insists they aren't racist, if you need a petition to "prove" you aren't a misogynist, then guess what you are? He doesn't deserve to be cancelled, just ignored, but I would still encourage anyone who loves comics to read Cerebus, but to separate the art from the artist.
I love Cerebus and think Dave Sim is among the three greatest living cartoonists, but unfortunately you are correct. What is more unfortunate is that Dave is extraordinarily intelligent and perceptive, and through Cerebus and other writings has raised issues and questions that I think do bear examination, but just like Peterson, anything useful he has to say gets buried beneath that insipid "I'm being rational, you're being emotional!" argument that is, well, just exhausting and not much else. What's more, he's not very well-read on the subject of feminism. If he were, I think he'd recognize how diverse it is a field of thought. I mean, the subject of paternal rights in abortion is far from a settled issue in feminism, give me a break. And equating the operation of a motor vehicle to a relationship? I mean here again, it's shouting "I'm very logical!" while you're committing the most elementary of fallacies...
I had more fun reading the Cerebus letters column back in the day than I've ever had since reading Twitter and the like. Good times!
One the all time great layout/composition illustrators in conics history
Dave Sim: prophet. God bless you.
His projection to the end collapse of society due to Ultra left Feminism has proved to be quite insightful.
You rock mister. Thank you.
Dave have you watched Slavoj Zizek's the Pervert's Guide to Ideology? You might really dig it if you havent...
Bless Dave Sim. He knew the truth about women and feminsm all along. And he was 100% right.
well said
I came rushing to youtube, because I had found out about Dave Sim. And wanted to know more, to listen to Dave Sim himself. And this, I have to say, was like a cold shower. "I think that equating opposition to feminism with misogyny..." This start immediately showed that we must have very different conceptions. It was good to find a sober and rational voice. There are a lot of angry people out there. And yes, some are misogynists. And some, unlike you, do seem to make their political discussions about who they seem to hate.
But I am another one of those that, as you may have heard over and over and over, do not see "feminism" as a clear "ideology". Like communism or socialism or capitalism. So, when someone expresses their opposition to it, I do need to know what they are opposing, really. One of the problems that arises is that many people do identify as feminists. And if someone does oppose "feminism", suddenly they, the feminists appear as opponents, even if they do not subscribe to the "ideology" being opposed to.
Another thing I believe, of course feminism (even as an umbrella term for several movements, a set of contrasting and evolving ideas, as history) can and should be discussed, debated and even fought. That never, in itself, makes anyone a misogynist. Never. Feminists themselves would be misogynists, because they are the ones that debate, discuss and have inner conflict more fiercely and frequently. It would make philosophers misanthropes just because they argue and debate about humankind.
Very well said.
Looking for logic in Dave Sim and his writings will just screw a person up. Be free, live a good life and don't hate anything except hatred. And try not to get in the way too much of other people trying to be free.
@@buzzawuzza3743 Hating hatred is an oxymoron
@@thedarkmasterthedarkmaster "Don't hate nothing but hatred" -Bob Dylan
@@buzzawuzza3743 and why does his opinion matter, quite the appeal to authority?
It must be at least a bit satisfying to be be a critic that was hounded for wrongthink then to watch as feminism became the out of control monster that it became.
I’m the .. #BodyGame; , and #TheJavaCon; guy from Comics & Comix, in Berkeley .., The Viscount days.
My armor is hate, my shield is disgust, my sword is hatred.
I grew up reading the Cerebus comics in real time.They are the utmost and important comics of all time.
Well, this aged well. You were ahead of the curve here Dave. Don't worry, everyone's a misogynist now, apparently...
You just did a gish gallop
If Feminism helps stop the people who would keep women from getting jobs and achieving things how can it be bad? And how is a culture that keeps females feeling like second class citizens good?
Well, if (for the sake of argument) Feminism helped stop the people who would keep women from getting jobs and achieving things by murdering 50% of the men on the planet, it could be very bad. My point: don't judge a movement by a supposed good result until you understand what the movement is about in toto. I leave you to study it further on your own and then answer your own question.
@@kenlieck7756 nothing is worse less than a man's opinion on feminism
@@buzzawuzza3743 I offered no opinion whatsoever (unless you want to count "murder is bad").
You asked a question and I gave a theoretical answer.
@@kenlieck7756 Talking about murdering half of the male population is just nuts and not part of any rational discussion. Take care of yourself, stay safe
@@buzzawuzza3743 And you as well. I don't think either of us saw that conversation going anywhere beneficial.