At this stage I'm mature enough to appreciate the beauty while tuning out the filth... but I still can't recommend it to anyone. You have to be in the right place to enjoy something like this. Just like with Crumb.
I think with Crumb it's different. Crumb is intentionally expressing his id to reveal the darkness within us. Sim created a manifesto and shoehorned it into his books.
I've always felt that a person's intelligence is directly reflected by the number of conflicting points of view he can entertain simultaneously on the same topic. Abigail Adams
Honestly what I also find kind of frustrating about his anti-feminist screeds are that he can get so close to drawing a solid outline around the worst aspects of capitalism and how it's super alienating, how businesses use the fact that people depend on their spouses as leverage to get them to do more work, etc. Then he feels the need to try and turn that around to implicate wives as being complicit just by virtue of existing in a system that knows how to weaponize them.
It’s nice to see the top comment, unlike the videos author, who lazily categorizes anyone who watches Fox News a misogynist and intentionally misrepresents facts in the introduction, recognizes Sim is attacking Feminism. I think, given how things have gone sideways in the past 6 years, and how rad fems have all but taken over all of comics and much of the media, labeling all masculinity as toxic, I understand much more of what Sim was saying then about the dangers and hypocrisy of radical feminism. I don’t necessarily agree with many of his extrapolations, but I definitely see where he was coming from.
@@HuhWhatHuhwhatHuh be advised that 1970s radical feminism as originally devised or intended is very different from its current populist social media evolution. The first thinkers, scholars & writers to give life to the movement were deeply profound, and had some excellent points and ideas as well as solid feasible plans for achieving equality that did not all (or even mostly) involve gen0ciding men. These foremothers would probably be as horrified as you are to see what has become of all branches of 'feminism' today.
@@pendafen7405I don’t think feminism’s “current populist social media evolution” is even correctly representative of third or fourth wave feminism. Neither is, for that matter, the extremely toxic and misogynistic way a Fox News viewer would understand any kind of feminism.
I had to stop reading after Mothers and Daughters. And even then I skipped over all the “reads” as they had less and less to do with Cerebus’ story. I do still think that High Society and Church and State are brilliant satires of politics and religion.
Maybe there's something wrong with me. But, I liked Cerebus. The fact that the character is a full on asshole doesn't bother me. I'm not emotionally invested in the artist, but I do recognize him as a master of the form. The two times I've met him, I approached him as a fan and not a critic. I can read and enjoy a book about a jerk as long as it's presented in a style that doesn't kill my appreciation of it. As an example: A friend immediately stopped watching the FX series "The Shield" when, at the end of the first episode, the main character shot and killed an undercover cop. His choice. I kept with it. As I stated, maybe there's something wrong with me. Your critique is well thought out and presents a few facts of which I was previously unaware. While, I wouldn't 'hang out' with Sim, I can see his place in comics history as an innovator. Thank you for your well crafted presentation.
I wouldn’t say there’s something wrong with you. I mean, I read every page of Cerebus myself, and most of the backmatter, and I did that before any idea of writing this piece entered my mind, so there’s obviously something of quality there. That doesn’t mean you can’t acknowledge the work or the author’s problems. Thanks for watching!
@@LiterateMachine bur you read it recently and were obviously taking notes just for this hit piece. If you read it at the time, then you are a hypocrite for continuing to support a guy you are convinced is a raging pedophile misogynist.
This critique isn't calling for censorship, nor for book-burnings or boycotts. He's simply pointing out one facet of critical engagement, which is recognising when an artist has fallen out of the creative mindset and into pure polemic. It's like watching Triumph 0f The Will--you could attempt to watch it as a technical marvel of stunning-for-the-time documentary cinema, and that would be a fair reading...but it's still extremely aggressive, blatant, stomach-turning and unapologetic propaganda created purely to glamourise and whitewash a hateful reg!me, you know? And that's hard to look past with real-world context that all humans, artist or appreciator, bring to art when they engage with it.
I wanna reinforce what the other commenters have said, I agree with them completely, but also I'm confused by your assessment because Cerebus is full of out-of-character screeds, by the author himself, attributing all this evil to women. It's not like people call the work misogynistic purely because Cerebus as a fictional character acts misogynistic. The work very clearly and unambiguously spells out its own misogyny to the reader, completely distinct from its protagonist's
Just came across this. You made a nice presentation. I loved Cerebus up until about the second half of Church and State. Even before the rape scene, something about the story seemed to change for the worse. I stayed with it. Loved Jaka's Story. Even enjoyed Melmoth a bit. But then it went downhill quickly. It's such a shame, because it was so good at one time. If someday someone can remix Cerebus, using preexisting art to "rewrite" the second half of the story into something that more closely matches the first half and provides a better ending, I would love it. But oh well. At least we still have the great first few stories. Some are so good that I still go back and reread them just for a laugh, like issue 50 (51?) after High Society when he is trapped in the closet on a boat with Elrod and Lord Julius. That never fails to make me laugh.
Yeah, when Cerebus is good it's good in a way almost nothing else is, and is so unique and refreshing and interesting. No one else, in no other medium, would have produced something like that boat issue. It's so pure Dave Sim. It is a shame what happened.
Although I do not disagree with anything you have said, I must say as somebody who has study the Torah and the Tanakh in university,(sorry English is not my first language) that Dave's interpretation of Genesis is not that far as you may think. As far back as the 13th century, Jews had dissected the Torah and have developed ideas like the "binah" sephirot which is understood as the receptive feminine principle. Often symbolically shown as a cup or womb or even a type of void. On the other side is chokmah which is understood as the projective male principle. Often symbolized as a sword or light, something that is phallic and projects forward. Now where does Sim get the idea of some sort of sexual transgression between these two principles. We have to go all the way back to genesis and look at the creation of man. It says first that God made man and woman. And then later it goes on to give the story about how eve was made from Adam's "rib". This confused readers as it was understood both genders were produced at the same time but the second story with eve suggest other wise. This confusion is due to a translation error and overall misunderstanding of genesis (the most complicated book of the Torah) First when it says that God made man in woman, in its original Hebrew it is implied by how its written that God created the very concept of man kind in a hermaphroditic type way. Kind of like how people say mankind or human but it refers to both genders. Human is gender less and consists of the two. When it comes to the eve story the translation error is that when it says that got took Adam's rib, in its original Hebrew that noun of "rib" was commonly used to mean half or whole side. Meaning God took the human that possessed bothe the masculine and feminine principles inside and split them. Sorry for the long explanation but imagined how many hours and years this took in school, but I'm almost done. This translation errors weren't sussed out by 13th century jews and they saw plainly that the creation story had two accounts for two separate women. They began creating a new mythology where eve was the second woman and the first woman made with Adam was a character named Lilith. It is said that since they were equals there was a disagreement between Lillith and Adam over who would be on top in missionary. Adam forcing himself on top of Lilith is the sexual transgression that leads to God having to expell the first woman and split the two principles from Adam. (Try not to think of Lilith and Adam as traditionally man and female before the eve account but more of a hermaphroditic pair of humans) I know this is confusing but it's the head Canon of a bunch of jews thousands of years after the fact. This does not explain the idea he proposes about yaweh being a feminine void and a higher being being the projective male. But there's an explanation for that two. The creator God yaweh is the keter or crown sephirot that is above binah and chokmah. But there are 3 realms above the keter sephirot. To put it simply its the nature of the God mind before he has any pathos. It goes from absolutely nothing to infinite projective light. And of something is projective than it needs to be reviewed or captured by something otherwise it would just go on forever. That would be the feminine keter sephirot. But this is a common mistake made by new readers into Jewish mysticism and is probably a failure on Sims research. Also the idea of yaweh being a false evil God is a concept explored in gnosticism. And is the evil gods creation is often the result of a female emanation of the true God going against the will of the God and having a son that turns into the evil God. I'm sure you came across alot of these concepts in other media. I believe that Sim got into Jewish mysticism and kaballah and was probably heavily inspired by them but deeply misunderstood that at the core of them all humans share both principles and the genitals do not deem if one would lean to one principle or the other. And he probably didn't understand that in those teaching and writing that the true full human is a perfect balance of both. Any who I spent many long years studying these things and I can tell he was greatly inspired by these concepts but probably didn't have enough material to research. Anyways have a good day
One thing I forgot to add is that a common misconception of genesis is that alot of the language used during the first parts of creation imply that the creation is not yet on a physically manifested level and is only existing as a concept. Kind of like how a square is something is real and existing but not in a physical sense. Things are manifested on the earth under the laws of the universe that may take on the form of a square. The Adam and Lilith characters added later exist in the super position. They are on the formative realm of creation and their sexual transgression does not let them manifest
@@ggalahadx wow, thank you for the scholarly context, it's awesome to have someone speak on this who has actual deep knowledge from primary sources (unlike Sim).
@@pendafen7405the commenter clearly stated that Sim has read these texts and that's where some of his ideas come from, what are you even talking about?
@@LiterateMachine you should type on Google website called Overthinking It article called “Tracing the Lineage of Bojack Horseman” and it will explained you why both the comic and the show so similar both started as comedy before becoming darker, dramatic and serious, both characters are self-destructive, alcoholic, power hungry that ruined so many lives that the consequences bite them back hard.
I loved the story of Cerebus the Aardvark... up until chapter 265. To me, that was the true end of the story. Everything beyond it seems like aimless meandering rambles. Cerebus was an asshole, yes, but it's clear that he's nothing to aspire to. Hell, the story beats both us AND Cerebus over the head with his numerous flaws and their various ramifications. The characters in Cerebus are fascinatingly complex; they are not simply strawmen to be decried as fully wrong or fully right. Even the psuedo-Fascistic Cirinist society is shown to be surprisingly amenable to its citizens... Cerebus included. Ergo, I can take the author's viewpoints, and I can take them or leave them. Just as every viewer is exposed to the various conflicting viewpoints in his stories, and can themselves pick and choose what they wish to acknowledge or ignore. To me, that is the greatest strength of Cerebus the Aardvark.
His misogyny has that same desperate quality of Philip Larkin's fascism. It's too loud. Darling, sit down, have some water, you've gone all red in the face, there there.
I think of Cerebus as a horrific self evisceration by the artist of the artist. I don’t agree with the characters or the authors assertions, but I still think it’s a very interesting work
@@LiterateMachine inspired and reminded of the good stuff by your excellent essay I thought I’d take a punt on Cerebus In Hell? . And, I have a similar take as on the main series: the detriments are weirdly positive. Specifically the repetitive (actually, relentlessly repetitive) approach of the form and the periodic confessional/hair-shirt aspect of the limited narrative captures a kind of hell. And he thinks his wrist injury is a test from god, so he really has gone full-metal-Job. But everything remains… interesting
Cool to know if I hear these names leave a date's mouth to vacate the area immediately. I've read a lot of "dark" media too and idk who behaves worse: the creators or the fans.
I've always enjoyed Cerebus. It gave me a thrill. Your overview was generally balanced and for that I commend you. However, at the end you call Cerebus "300 issues of hate speech" (or something like that). Interesting. Personally, I don't see that at all. Cerebus has a particular temperament & I've found him to be quite delightful. I'll always remember the scene in the crossover with TMNT when Cerebus says icily "NEXT TIME YELL LET'S GO A LITTLE LOUDER!! SOME OF THEM DIDN"T HEAR YOU!!" ClassIc!!! 🤘🤘🤘🤘🤘🤘
Oh the Void was a hard chuckle, as a woman. What a deplorable Petersonian creep Dave has become. His poor wife. Pity, because Sim had a few intelligent screeds and inspired characterisations in his Cerebus run, as well as some stunning art.
Hm.... I jumped on and off the Sim train in 1996-1997, never having read _Mothers & Daughters._ (Which had, to be fair, been published.) I was certainly aware then that Sim was an asshole. I had no idea he later went mad. However, I do encourage you to see the film _Crumb_ to help you understand the potential mindset. Not all of us can be winners, even if we learn how to be true to ourselves. We can't even necessarily become _Beautiful Losers,_ It is sad that Sim nursed his personal grievances into some kind of cosmology. But then, he did - at some point - also write _High Society._ And _Church & State._ And, basically, invent the graphic novel. And at that point, he knew how to laugh at himself. Which is not, as it turns out, a cure.
I just waned to comment on Dave Sim's crime. People, it will never be enough for child abusers to "take responsibility". Abusers taking "responsibility" or "owning up" will never be justice for the constant trauma his victims will suffer. It will never change the fact that he committed a terrible crime and went unpunished. When it comes down to it, we are doing a huge disservice to victims by letting ourselves be satisfied with "but at least..." Or, "They said they changed..."! Are we really willing to naively let our standards for public figures/people we admire, be that fucking low? We need to do the opposite. Does that mean we should boycott all his work? No, we need take the darker substance he imposed onto his his work with a grain of salt and appreciate the good in them for what it is. So I would still buy Dave Sim's books...I'd just be genuinely far more comfortable buying his work if he was safely tucked away in Jail, far, far away from people's kids, that's all I'm saying!
What "crime" did he commit? He met a fan, age of consent in Canada was 14 then, 16 now. 7 years after meeting her when she was 21 years old. They dated and he slept with her. The girl has no issue with Sim, she knew what she was doing, so why do you care?
The Cerebus to pope storyline also mirrors the chancellorship of Hitler, the conservative Germans thought they could control him but as you said, barbarian … right?
I'd be interested in reading the piece by Tiegen O'Neal (total guess on the spelling there) on The Hurting am not able to find it. Any idea how to find it?
Hi, you can find it here: whenwillthehurtingstop.blogspot.com/2013/10/fun-and-games-with-dave.html (The Hurting is the name of her blog in general, this is the series about Cerebus.)
@@LiterateMachine Very. there's a lot to unpack here with sonichu. But to give a brief explanation: sonichu was created by Christian W Chandler aka Chris Chan as an original character mash up of both sonic the hedgehog and Pikachu. The sonichu comics follow the adventures of sonichu who is the son of Chris Chan in the comics. Most of the villains are real life people in Chris's life. The comics become increasingly more degenerate with themes of sexism, homophobia, extreme gore and violence, incest, endangerment of minors, and rape. Most of these themes were brought on by online trolls who slowly took over Chris's life. Also, Chris is autistic and socially inept as well as a transgender woman now (who still goes by Chris chan). Those traits are not inherently wrong but give detail to how the comics morph around her life. Chris genuinely believes she is a God who can Astral project herself onto sonichu who lives in another dimension parallel to ours. The degenerative nature of Chris's mental state which can be seen through the run of the comics culminated into the rape of her own mother. There is a lot to unpack in terms of her history. I recommend watching the comprehensive documentary by Geno Samuel on youtube and spotify. It is very long, episodic, and on going. As well as GiBi's video intro to Chris (ua-cam.com/video/EAjQ-AhytMk/v-deo.html) and the intro to Chris's comics (ua-cam.com/video/DbasbHdPJoA/v-deo.html). Chris chan is by far the most documented person in human history.
@chad5381 hate to necropost but -- I don't know about the "most," though I will acknowledge there's a possibility you're right there.. the study of the effects lf mental illness (and, also, separately or not LSD impairment) on artistic expression is deeply intriguing, and I have a feeling we will learn more than we expect to about ourselves in this area.
It’s difficult to know what to do with people like Dave Sim. Should you force him into treatment for his own good, or is that a violation his human rights. The same mental forces that create truly unique geniuses also produce the insane 😅😢😮
I think this was a good and fair video. Clearly you have left-leaning opinions, and are running up against the divide between Liberal and Alt-Left; of wanting diversity and freedom, (except that everyone has to come to the same conclusion or else they are evil and should be silenced), and new and different ideas (except, by definition, every new idea is unusual and fringe, and won't be accepted by The Party.) However, you do seem like you are willing to listen, and think, and have at least a degree of being willing to take people as they are rather than trying to force/shame/condemn them to your own worldview. And although I read Cerebus from 1988-2004, I'm not going to spend a lot of time defending Sim, because I do think he was a bit of a dick and off his rocker, but he was also exceptional in many respects as well. It depends on whether you want to see him in a "glass half full" or in a "glass half cracked" sort of way, but regardless, I would argue that it is important - nay, vital - to read what you DON'T agree with, both for sake of compassion and for sake of understanding.
There was something that bothered me about the video’s analysis. In the creation myth, when the male void impregnates the female light, it’s a criticism of toxic masculinity. But when the genders are reversed it’s apparently just Sim’s misogyny. That’s a ridiculous double standard
@@tomhato5523 Yeah I genuinely believe that a lot of people on the left just can't comprehend any criticism of women. I mean let's say in a hypothetical that the creator of this comic had the genders reversed from the on set I must wonder if the same reaction would happen
@@tomhato5523 If Sim was really a misogynist, it would show in his subsequent work after Cerebus (Glamourpuss & Judenhass). I've read Glamourpuss at least & found no hate on women there, I doubt Judenhass contains the same.
There was a literal misogynistic Fox clip on screen when he said that. I think that proves the channel appeals to misogyny. It isn't a lazy stereotype when it's backed up with evidence
Brilliant video for a "Woke" SJW just wanting to cr-p on a popular target to appeal to your "Fashionably Radical" friends who'd turn on you in a heartbeat . That's why you are apologizing for anything you dare admit someone might interpret you like about him/his comic. One man's opinion. I won't blindly defend Sim, he's got issues. Wonderful comic project and work for Indie creators. I don't care if he's a warped mess - part of his inner pain is what has created his works - and its not worth dismissing him over it even if he stepped on some snowflake's fee-feez...
I can't actually take anyone seriously who uses "SJW" as a pejorative, but thanks for adding a comment to my video and improving its engagement rating in the UA-cam algorithm.
@@LiterateMachine >> can't actually take anyone seriously who uses "SJW" as a pejorative Ah the "Control the Language" aspect, right out of 1984 - "newspeak" - Woke, SJWs, "Hipsters of Hate" sure like to block out the term "Social Justice Warrior" because it fits them to a T but they do come out insulting anyone they think disagrees with them and certainly use similar terms on their 'enemies' (anyone who isn't 100% on their side) like "Alt-Right". Again, I'm actually praising you since of all the 'fashionably radical' attacks on Sim yours is the most articulate. However, he's a man who writes a COMIC BOOK. He's done other good things like promoting the "Indie" press rather than let it sputter like the Underground was after the 60s died down. He's also done bad things. That's because he's a person. Not an idol. Absolutely not a saint. And great people, especially the creatives are FULL of real darkside behavior or rather what's your term "Cringe"... Viewpoints, racism, sexism, degenerate or depraved behavior - it's a cruel rule that most have to have at least one "Socially unacceptable" aspect (Wilde) that either ruins them in their day - or if 100% fine for their day makes it unacceptable in a future age. Right now you "Woke" bash Lovecraft because he was (very mildly) racist - double dog dare you to google "L. Frank Baum Genocide" - btw - Baum was the guy that wrote "The Wizard of Oz"...something most SJWs LOVE... Not 'blindly defending' rather I like most of Cerebus, his push for self publishing and direct to market, code avoidance, creator rights. I don't care if people don't agree with him 100% like he's a messiah, I certainly don't. But if you dismiss something that doesn't cater to and flatter your own biases, beliefs you'll end up with nothing. What you read will either flatter you and you are just wasting money and time - or it will offend you and you'll have to crusade to take it down. >>> but thanks for adding a comment to my video and improving its engagement rating in the UA-cam algorithm. And? That's comments. Do you really want only praise, no criticism, no debate? At least you are more articulate than most - and again it's funny hearing you choke not wanting to admit you like ANY part of Sim's work lest a fellow "hipster of Hate" cancel you...
@@benb3316 Yes, me not being able to take you seriously because you think fighting for social justice is somehow bad is EXACTLY like 1984, how could I have been so silly. I actually compliment Sim a lot in this piece, for example his mastery of comics craft and his ability to mimic comedic styles. And I'm saying you can criticize me all you like, the algorithm loves it. Cheers!
@@LiterateMachine You do compliment Sim, and I respect that. But "Social Justice?" Yeah... no. See, they tried that in Russia. Social Justice for the proletariat. The problem is, it never turns out well. People use pretty slogans to gain power, but must use that power to reward supporters and punish competitors in order to stay in power. Which results in human rights violations, opposition being cowed, and eventual breakdown and mass starvation. SJW is just a lever to socialism. You know who doesn't like socialism? Anyone who has ever lived under it. I would encourage you to look at a channel called The Voice of North Korea, by a woman who escaped from North Korea. Socialism may be hip to those who don't know any better, but BLM/antifa are the most destructive force possible, even and especially to those who they claim to fight for.
@@LiterateMachine And I will comment to further improve its engagement, not just because your video was quality, but because I know that's exactly what Ben B wants. Very nice work sir.
@@RappingNinja are you insinuating brilliant trolls don’t troll because of their beliefs? A great troll (not an insult, it’s a compliment) trolls because they care.
Incoherent opinion. He's not crazy, he's a troll. Him believing something absolutely insane does not make him less of a troll, nor does it make him more crazy All you've done is equate all forms of madness with trolling
I think it's little funny wringing your hands about "gangsta rap" in 2022 (did you sleep through the last 40 years or so?) but plenty of people have criticized misogyny in rap music. See for example: ua-cam.com/video/C3m3t_PxiUI/v-deo.html In fact, a lot more people have criticized misogyny in rap music, both within and without the industry, than have ever written anything about freakin' Cerebus, which is a pretty niche thing.
Cerebus is absolute genius. Trailblazer (with the pinis) on independent scene. As for Sim himself. Meh....Is he a Misogynist? Maybe...in the same way Bill Clinton is. But as we were all told during the sex scandals of clinton...."As long as it doesn't hinder his job". And it (or whatever one finds ill about Sim)...clearly hasn't affected his job. He's incredibly prolific. And extremelly entertaining.
Seems a bit disingenuous to say someone is only a misogynist in the "same way Bill Clinton is", when Bill Clinton has never said that women are psychic voids who feed off of male light and should have all their rights stripped away and be completely subserviant to men. Dave Sim has said those things. I mean, Bill Clinton would never sign his name to something like the "five impossible things to believe before breakfast". These are not equivalent.
Grooming didn't exist then, it wasn't term, much less a thing. He met a fan at 14. Age of consent was 14 in Canada, (16 now) and he dated and slept with her 7 years later. If this is wrong then cast the same rock at Elvis and every single member of Duran Duran, every metal band and every rap act who slept with a girl who was a fan and then slept with a band member later in their 20s.
I'm sorry if you don't understand why romancing a child with the intent to have sex with them when they're legal is unethical, I'm not sure I can explain it to you. It didn't just become unethical when the term became well known, it was always unethical.
@@LiterateMachine What evidence is that he "romanced" her? He signed her books? He kept in touch with a fan? If he was "grooming" her why didn't he sleep with her at 14 in Canada or 18 in the US? She had a thing for him and he DIDN'T take advantage of the situation although she was obviously "good to go" since day one. So she pops back into the picture when she is 21, TWENTY ONE, that's older than the average playmate. So years later, better part of a decade, he's coming off a divorce, she still has a thing for him, and they ended up DATING for months? Where you ever a HS senior you never looked at a freshman girl and said "wow she is going to be a real hottie one day". Then bump into her several years later and asked her out? The girl hasn't ever griped about this has she? So if its nothing to her, whats it to you? Way to judge people from 40 years ago by 'woke' standards of today. At most you can say its a little creepy, but Elvis or Humphrey Bogart, or Anna Nicole for that matter, they get a pass but not Sim?
@@EricRosenfield No one has ever said anything about them to speak of. There have been some remarks as of late about Elvis. But no one talks about Bogey and Bacall. Everyone reading this has people in their family tree where a bride was probably 16, and if not married by 18 she was an old maid. She was 21 when he went out with her...TWENTY ONE. This was over 30 years ago. But lets judge people by today's standards retroactively.
You’re arguing with yourself man. Bogey and Bacall’s age difference was a scandal back then and it’s still talked about now. Lots more ink has been spilled on that than on Sim. But keep trying, you seem to be having fun here. Dragging celebrities who’ve done unethical things out and asking why do they get a pass doesn’t make what Sim did ethical. That’s not how ethics works.
The commenter is possibly positing thus: that presenting caricatures, of the Presidents he cited (as examples), has been happening openly and for a very very long time - and by this example, he aims to show that cartoonish buffoonish caricature is not limited only to "the Trump-ster", whilst also showing that this practice is not specific only to this current time/the present day. Thats my guess.
@@joedent3323 People act like Trump is an exception. This buffoonery exists everywhere in politics. You just can't see it unless it's obvious. Especially with the alt right and alt left.
@@GagsAnimation I don't care about Politics - but hopefully you are a Cerebus fan. Im up to about issue 120 I think. I am taking a wee break and will pick it back up again soon. Have you done the entire run?
@@joedent3323 I really want to read Cerebus just for the art alone. I think it will really help develop my style. I've heard the writing is spectacular. Is it true? Despite everyone trying to demonize Dave, I feel more sympathy for him because of his mental incapability of seeing reality.
I own a paper copy of the first phone book, which he published and I bought, before his brain started to rot... it's weird cynicism is quite enjoyable for the first half, but it certainly rubs you the wrong way by the end.
At this stage I'm mature enough to appreciate the beauty while tuning out the filth... but I still can't recommend it to anyone. You have to be in the right place to enjoy something like this. Just like with Crumb.
I think with Crumb it's different. Crumb is intentionally expressing his id to reveal the darkness within us. Sim created a manifesto and shoehorned it into his books.
am still waiting to get my mind-reading soul-stealing man-destroying powers tbh
Lies again? Contender Series Cold Storage
@@NazriB what on Earth are you babbling about?
I've always felt that a person's intelligence is directly reflected by the number of conflicting points of view he can entertain simultaneously on the same topic.
Abigail Adams
Honestly what I also find kind of frustrating about his anti-feminist screeds are that he can get so close to drawing a solid outline around the worst aspects of capitalism and how it's super alienating, how businesses use the fact that people depend on their spouses as leverage to get them to do more work, etc. Then he feels the need to try and turn that around to implicate wives as being complicit just by virtue of existing in a system that knows how to weaponize them.
This is an excellent and fascinating point.
It’s nice to see the top comment, unlike the videos author, who lazily categorizes anyone who watches Fox News a misogynist and intentionally misrepresents facts in the introduction, recognizes Sim is attacking Feminism.
I think, given how things have gone sideways in the past 6 years, and how rad fems have all but taken over all of comics and much of the media, labeling all masculinity as toxic, I understand much more of what Sim was saying then about the dangers and hypocrisy of radical feminism. I don’t necessarily agree with many of his extrapolations, but I definitely see where he was coming from.
@@HuhWhatHuhwhatHuh be advised that 1970s radical feminism as originally devised or intended is very different from its current populist social media evolution. The first thinkers, scholars & writers to give life to the movement were deeply profound, and had some excellent points and ideas as well as solid feasible plans for achieving equality that did not all (or even mostly) involve gen0ciding men. These foremothers would probably be as horrified as you are to see what has become of all branches of 'feminism' today.
@@HuhWhatHuhwhatHuh
You're telling me the guy who said women are hungry voids and men are divine lights wasn't a misogynist?
@@pendafen7405I don’t think feminism’s “current populist social media evolution” is even correctly representative of third or fourth wave feminism. Neither is, for that matter, the extremely toxic and misogynistic way a Fox News viewer would understand any kind of feminism.
I had to stop reading after Mothers and Daughters. And even then I skipped over all the “reads” as they had less and less to do with Cerebus’ story.
I do still think that High Society and Church and State are brilliant satires of politics and religion.
Maybe there's something wrong with me. But, I liked Cerebus. The fact that the character is a full on asshole doesn't bother me. I'm not emotionally invested in the artist, but I do recognize him as a master of the form. The two times I've met him, I approached him as a fan and not a critic. I can read and enjoy a book about a jerk as long as it's presented in a style that doesn't kill my appreciation of it. As an example: A friend immediately stopped watching the FX series "The Shield" when, at the end of the first episode, the main character shot and killed an undercover cop. His choice. I kept with it. As I stated, maybe there's something wrong with me. Your critique is well thought out and presents a few facts of which I was previously unaware. While, I wouldn't 'hang out' with Sim, I can see his place in comics history as an innovator. Thank you for your well crafted presentation.
I wouldn’t say there’s something wrong with you. I mean, I read every page of Cerebus myself, and most of the backmatter, and I did that before any idea of writing this piece entered my mind, so there’s obviously something of quality there. That doesn’t mean you can’t acknowledge the work or the author’s problems. Thanks for watching!
@@LiterateMachine bur you read it recently and were obviously taking notes just for this hit piece. If you read it at the time, then you are a hypocrite for continuing to support a guy you are convinced is a raging pedophile misogynist.
This critique isn't calling for censorship, nor for book-burnings or boycotts. He's simply pointing out one facet of critical engagement, which is recognising when an artist has fallen out of the creative mindset and into pure polemic. It's like watching Triumph 0f The Will--you could attempt to watch it as a technical marvel of stunning-for-the-time documentary cinema, and that would be a fair reading...but it's still extremely aggressive, blatant, stomach-turning and unapologetic propaganda created purely to glamourise and whitewash a hateful reg!me, you know? And that's hard to look past with real-world context that all humans, artist or appreciator, bring to art when they engage with it.
I wanna reinforce what the other commenters have said, I agree with them completely, but also I'm confused by your assessment because Cerebus is full of out-of-character screeds, by the author himself, attributing all this evil to women. It's not like people call the work misogynistic purely because Cerebus as a fictional character acts misogynistic. The work very clearly and unambiguously spells out its own misogyny to the reader, completely distinct from its protagonist's
Just came across this. You made a nice presentation. I loved Cerebus up until about the second half of Church and State. Even before the rape scene, something about the story seemed to change for the worse. I stayed with it. Loved Jaka's Story. Even enjoyed Melmoth a bit. But then it went downhill quickly. It's such a shame, because it was so good at one time.
If someday someone can remix Cerebus, using preexisting art to "rewrite" the second half of the story into something that more closely matches the first half and provides a better ending, I would love it. But oh well. At least we still have the great first few stories. Some are so good that I still go back and reread them just for a laugh, like issue 50 (51?) after High Society when he is trapped in the closet on a boat with Elrod and Lord Julius. That never fails to make me laugh.
Yeah, when Cerebus is good it's good in a way almost nothing else is, and is so unique and refreshing and interesting. No one else, in no other medium, would have produced something like that boat issue. It's so pure Dave Sim. It is a shame what happened.
Holy shit - no pun intended - so in other words, Dave Sim’s basically a cranky modern gnostic.
Only about five minutes into the video, but so far it’s really good.
WHEW. I'm grateful that I came here before buying a huge deal of these comics on Humble Bundle.... Thank you!
Although I do not disagree with anything you have said, I must say as somebody who has study the Torah and the Tanakh in university,(sorry English is not my first language) that Dave's interpretation of Genesis is not that far as you may think.
As far back as the 13th century, Jews had dissected the Torah and have developed ideas like the "binah" sephirot which is understood as the receptive feminine principle. Often symbolically shown as a cup or womb or even a type of void. On the other side is chokmah which is understood as the projective male principle. Often symbolized as a sword or light, something that is phallic and projects forward.
Now where does Sim get the idea of some sort of sexual transgression between these two principles.
We have to go all the way back to genesis and look at the creation of man.
It says first that God made man and woman. And then later it goes on to give the story about how eve was made from Adam's "rib". This confused readers as it was understood both genders were produced at the same time but the second story with eve suggest other wise.
This confusion is due to a translation error and overall misunderstanding of genesis (the most complicated book of the Torah)
First when it says that God made man in woman, in its original Hebrew it is implied by how its written that God created the very concept of man kind in a hermaphroditic type way. Kind of like how people say mankind or human but it refers to both genders. Human is gender less and consists of the two.
When it comes to the eve story the translation error is that when it says that got took Adam's rib, in its original Hebrew that noun of "rib" was commonly used to mean half or whole side. Meaning God took the human that possessed bothe the masculine and feminine principles inside and split them.
Sorry for the long explanation but imagined how many hours and years this took in school, but I'm almost done.
This translation errors weren't sussed out by 13th century jews and they saw plainly that the creation story had two accounts for two separate women.
They began creating a new mythology where eve was the second woman and the first woman made with Adam was a character named Lilith.
It is said that since they were equals there was a disagreement between Lillith and Adam over who would be on top in missionary. Adam forcing himself on top of Lilith is the sexual transgression that leads to God having to expell the first woman and split the two principles from Adam. (Try not to think of Lilith and Adam as traditionally man and female before the eve account but more of a hermaphroditic pair of humans)
I know this is confusing but it's the head Canon of a bunch of jews thousands of years after the fact.
This does not explain the idea he proposes about yaweh being a feminine void and a higher being being the projective male. But there's an explanation for that two.
The creator God yaweh is the keter or crown sephirot that is above binah and chokmah. But there are 3 realms above the keter sephirot.
To put it simply its the nature of the God mind before he has any pathos. It goes from absolutely nothing to infinite projective light. And of something is projective than it needs to be reviewed or captured by something otherwise it would just go on forever. That would be the feminine keter sephirot. But this is a common mistake made by new readers into Jewish mysticism and is probably a failure on Sims research.
Also the idea of yaweh being a false evil God is a concept explored in gnosticism. And is the evil gods creation is often the result of a female emanation of the true God going against the will of the God and having a son that turns into the evil God.
I'm sure you came across alot of these concepts in other media.
I believe that Sim got into Jewish mysticism and kaballah and was probably heavily inspired by them but deeply misunderstood that at the core of them all humans share both principles and the genitals do not deem if one would lean to one principle or the other.
And he probably didn't understand that in those teaching and writing that the true full human is a perfect balance of both.
Any who I spent many long years studying these things and I can tell he was greatly inspired by these concepts but probably didn't have enough material to research. Anyways have a good day
One thing I forgot to add is that a common misconception of genesis is that alot of the language used during the first parts of creation imply that the creation is not yet on a physically manifested level and is only existing as a concept. Kind of like how a square is something is real and existing but not in a physical sense. Things are manifested on the earth under the laws of the universe that may take on the form of a square. The Adam and Lilith characters added later exist in the super position. They are on the formative realm of creation and their sexual transgression does not let them manifest
Thank you so much for sharing all of this, it’s really fascinating.
@@ggalahadx wow, thank you for the scholarly context, it's awesome to have someone speak on this who has actual deep knowledge from primary sources (unlike Sim).
I was looking to see if anybody was going to bring this up. You touched on a lot I was wondering, and going to, and you added a few more things.
@@pendafen7405the commenter clearly stated that Sim has read these texts and that's where some of his ideas come from, what are you even talking about?
Ngl i only collect sims stuff for the art. I love the art of his books. Though hearing all this is WIIIIILD
Cerebus the Aardvark is basically Bojack Horseman before Bojack Horseman.
Never seen Bojack Horseman, but you've definitely peaked my interest in it!
@@LiterateMachine you should type on Google website called Overthinking It article called “Tracing the Lineage of Bojack Horseman” and it will explained you why both the comic and the show so similar both started as comedy before becoming darker, dramatic and serious, both characters are self-destructive, alcoholic, power hungry that ruined so many lives that the consequences bite them back hard.
@@LiterateMachineBojack is not a good person 😅
@@LiterateMachineyou really should, it's amazing
I'd sign that document, interview him, and then explain to the world his absolute, pants-shitting fear of women.
What a great analysis, thank you
Thanks, I glad you liked it!
I loved the story of Cerebus the Aardvark... up until chapter 265. To me, that was the true end of the story. Everything beyond it seems like aimless meandering rambles.
Cerebus was an asshole, yes, but it's clear that he's nothing to aspire to. Hell, the story beats both us AND Cerebus over the head with his numerous flaws and their various ramifications.
The characters in Cerebus are fascinatingly complex; they are not simply strawmen to be decried as fully wrong or fully right. Even the psuedo-Fascistic Cirinist society is shown to be surprisingly amenable to its citizens... Cerebus included.
Ergo, I can take the author's viewpoints, and I can take them or leave them. Just as every viewer is exposed to the various conflicting viewpoints in his stories, and can themselves pick and choose what they wish to acknowledge or ignore.
To me, that is the greatest strength of Cerebus the Aardvark.
His misogyny has that same desperate quality of Philip Larkin's fascism. It's too loud. Darling, sit down, have some water, you've gone all red in the face, there there.
Is cerebus a prototype of...Griffith?
only if you think Griffith was right. because i think cerebus did nothing wrong.
@skooptywooop130 Totally. He's also the proto-type for Gut's behavior in BlackSwordsmen Arc and Father Mozgus!
I think of Cerebus as a horrific self evisceration by the artist of the artist. I don’t agree with the characters or the authors assertions, but I still think it’s a very interesting work
I mean, I have to agree since I read all of it and wouldn't have if I didn't find it fascinating and compelling in its way.
@@LiterateMachine inspired and reminded of the good stuff by your excellent essay I thought I’d take a punt on Cerebus In Hell? . And, I have a similar take as on the main series: the detriments are weirdly positive. Specifically the repetitive (actually, relentlessly repetitive) approach of the form and the periodic confessional/hair-shirt aspect of the limited narrative captures a kind of hell. And he thinks his wrist injury is a test from god, so he really has gone full-metal-Job. But everything remains… interesting
He's right. 56 year old here and lived all over the world. Especially American women. Jesus.
Cool to know if I hear these names leave a date's mouth to vacate the area immediately. I've read a lot of "dark" media too and idk who behaves worse: the creators or the fans.
I've always enjoyed Cerebus. It gave me a thrill. Your overview was generally balanced and for that I commend you. However, at the end you call Cerebus "300 issues of hate speech" (or something like that). Interesting. Personally, I don't see that at all. Cerebus has a particular temperament & I've found him to be quite delightful. I'll always remember the scene in the crossover with TMNT when Cerebus says icily "NEXT TIME YELL LET'S GO A LITTLE LOUDER!! SOME OF THEM DIDN"T HEAR YOU!!"
ClassIc!!!
🤘🤘🤘🤘🤘🤘
Early Cerebus was simply fun parody. The hatefulness would come later as Sim's personality soured.
Dave sim looks like g man from half life
ok that went off the rails FAST.
Oh the Void was a hard chuckle, as a woman. What a deplorable Petersonian creep Dave has become. His poor wife.
Pity, because Sim had a few intelligent screeds and inspired characterisations in his Cerebus run, as well as some stunning art.
Hm.... I jumped on and off the Sim train in 1996-1997, never having read _Mothers & Daughters._ (Which had, to be fair, been published.) I was certainly aware then that Sim was an asshole. I had no idea he later went mad. However, I do encourage you to see the film _Crumb_ to help you understand the potential mindset. Not all of us can be winners, even if we learn how to be true to ourselves. We can't even necessarily become _Beautiful Losers,_
It is sad that Sim nursed his personal grievances into some kind of cosmology. But then, he did - at some point - also write _High Society._ And _Church & State._ And, basically, invent the graphic novel. And at that point, he knew how to laugh at himself. Which is not, as it turns out, a cure.
I just waned to comment on Dave Sim's crime.
People, it will never be enough for child abusers to "take responsibility".
Abusers taking "responsibility" or "owning up" will never be justice for the constant trauma his victims will suffer.
It will never change the fact that he committed a terrible crime and went unpunished.
When it comes down to it, we are doing a huge disservice to victims by letting ourselves be satisfied with "but at least..." Or, "They said they changed..."!
Are we really willing to naively let our standards for public figures/people we admire, be that fucking low? We need to do the opposite.
Does that mean we should boycott all his work? No, we need take the darker substance he imposed onto his his work with a grain of salt and appreciate the good in them for what it is.
So I would still buy Dave Sim's books...I'd just be genuinely far more comfortable buying his work if he was safely tucked away in Jail, far, far away from people's kids, that's all I'm saying!
What "crime" did he commit? He met a fan, age of consent in Canada was 14 then, 16 now. 7 years after meeting her when she was 21 years old. They dated and he slept with her. The girl has no issue with Sim, she knew what she was doing, so why do you care?
@davidlindsay9564
Keep this same attitude once it's your own daughter or sister getting cradle-robbed by "the distinguished auteur"
And yet, I am less disturbed by it than by the fact that people such as Neil Gaiman and Simon Pegg endorsed heforshe.
That’s how you know for sure that you’re a misogynist.
Great video!
I think the Judge was based on a Jules Feiffer character.
Know your enemy. Read Cerebus.
The Cerebus to pope storyline also mirrors the chancellorship of Hitler, the conservative Germans thought they could control him but as you said, barbarian … right?
Knew nothing about Cerebus, and man what a weird trip this was. Bonkers.
I'd be interested in reading the piece by Tiegen O'Neal (total guess on the spelling there) on The Hurting am not able to find it. Any idea how to find it?
Hi, you can find it here: whenwillthehurtingstop.blogspot.com/2013/10/fun-and-games-with-dave.html (The Hurting is the name of her blog in general, this is the series about Cerebus.)
Ok hear me out... the sonichu comics are very similar to cerebus
I don’t know what that is but is it interesting?
@@LiterateMachine Very. there's a lot to unpack here with sonichu. But to give a brief explanation: sonichu was created by Christian W Chandler aka Chris Chan as an original character mash up of both sonic the hedgehog and Pikachu. The sonichu comics follow the adventures of sonichu who is the son of Chris Chan in the comics. Most of the villains are real life people in Chris's life. The comics become increasingly more degenerate with themes of sexism, homophobia, extreme gore and violence, incest, endangerment of minors, and rape. Most of these themes were brought on by online trolls who slowly took over Chris's life. Also, Chris is autistic and socially inept as well as a transgender woman now (who still goes by Chris chan). Those traits are not inherently wrong but give detail to how the comics morph around her life. Chris genuinely believes she is a God who can Astral project herself onto sonichu who lives in another dimension parallel to ours. The degenerative nature of Chris's mental state which can be seen through the run of the comics culminated into the rape of her own mother. There is a lot to unpack in terms of her history.
I recommend watching the comprehensive documentary by Geno Samuel on youtube and spotify. It is very long, episodic, and on going. As well as GiBi's video intro to Chris (ua-cam.com/video/EAjQ-AhytMk/v-deo.html) and the intro to Chris's comics (ua-cam.com/video/DbasbHdPJoA/v-deo.html). Chris chan is by far the most documented person in human history.
@@chad5381 This does sound fascinating and horrifying. Thanks for bringing it to my attention!
@chad5381 hate to necropost but -- I don't know about the "most," though I will acknowledge there's a possibility you're right there.. the study of the effects lf mental illness (and, also, separately or not LSD impairment) on artistic expression is deeply intriguing, and I have a feeling we will learn more than we expect to about ourselves in this area.
Wow i hate dave sim. Cerebus looks cool but the cosmology is disturbing and cringe
still a master piece
It’s difficult to know what to do with people like Dave Sim. Should you force him into treatment for his own good, or is that a violation his human rights. The same mental forces that create truly unique geniuses also produce the insane 😅😢😮
Cerebus is still a masterpiece tho
Illness is not a metaphor.
I think this was a good and fair video.
Clearly you have left-leaning opinions, and are running up against the divide between Liberal and Alt-Left; of wanting diversity and freedom, (except that everyone has to come to the same conclusion or else they are evil and should be silenced), and new and different ideas (except, by definition, every new idea is unusual and fringe, and won't be accepted by The Party.)
However, you do seem like you are willing to listen, and think, and have at least a degree of being willing to take people as they are rather than trying to force/shame/condemn them to your own worldview. And although I read Cerebus from 1988-2004, I'm not going to spend a lot of time defending Sim, because I do think he was a bit of a dick and off his rocker, but he was also exceptional in many respects as well. It depends on whether you want to see him in a "glass half full" or in a "glass half cracked" sort of way, but regardless, I would argue that it is important - nay, vital - to read what you DON'T agree with, both for sake of compassion and for sake of understanding.
I find the criticisms of right wing artists like this so hilarious
because if he was left wing and just as bat crazy no one would say anything
There was something that bothered me about the video’s analysis. In the creation myth, when the male void impregnates the female light, it’s a criticism of toxic masculinity. But when the genders are reversed it’s apparently just Sim’s misogyny. That’s a ridiculous double standard
@@tomhato5523 Yeah I genuinely believe that a lot of people on the left just can't comprehend any criticism of women.
I mean let's say in a hypothetical that the creator of this comic had the genders reversed from the on set I must wonder if the same reaction would happen
exactly.
@@tomhato5523 If Sim was really a misogynist, it would show in his subsequent work after Cerebus (Glamourpuss & Judenhass). I've read Glamourpuss at least & found no hate on women there, I doubt Judenhass contains the same.
What’s an example of a left wing artist who is just as crazy as Sim but gets no criticism? What’s your evidence of this assertion?
Thumbs down for the Fox News reference. I don't watch the aforementioned channel, but lazy stereotypes are a pet peeve of mine.
There was a literal misogynistic Fox clip on screen when he said that. I think that proves the channel appeals to misogyny. It isn't a lazy stereotype when it's backed up with evidence
Brilliant video for a "Woke" SJW just wanting to cr-p on a popular target to appeal to your "Fashionably Radical" friends who'd turn on you in a heartbeat . That's why you are apologizing for anything you dare admit someone might interpret you like about him/his comic. One man's opinion.
I won't blindly defend Sim, he's got issues. Wonderful comic project and work for Indie creators. I don't care if he's a warped mess - part of his inner pain is what has created his works - and its not worth dismissing him over it even if he stepped on some snowflake's fee-feez...
I can't actually take anyone seriously who uses "SJW" as a pejorative, but thanks for adding a comment to my video and improving its engagement rating in the UA-cam algorithm.
@@LiterateMachine
>> can't actually take anyone seriously who uses "SJW" as a pejorative
Ah the "Control the Language" aspect, right out of 1984 - "newspeak"
- Woke, SJWs, "Hipsters of Hate" sure like to block out the term "Social Justice Warrior" because it fits them to a T but they do come out insulting anyone they think disagrees with them and certainly use similar terms on their 'enemies' (anyone who isn't 100% on their side) like "Alt-Right".
Again, I'm actually praising you since of all the 'fashionably radical' attacks on Sim yours is the most articulate.
However, he's a man who writes a COMIC BOOK. He's done other good things like promoting the "Indie" press rather than let it sputter like the Underground was after the 60s died down. He's also done bad things. That's because he's a person. Not an idol. Absolutely not a saint. And great people, especially the creatives are FULL of real darkside behavior or rather what's your term "Cringe"... Viewpoints, racism, sexism, degenerate or depraved behavior - it's a cruel rule that most have to have at least one "Socially unacceptable" aspect (Wilde) that either ruins them in their day - or if 100% fine for their day makes it unacceptable in a future age. Right now you "Woke" bash Lovecraft because he was (very mildly) racist - double dog dare you to google "L. Frank Baum Genocide" - btw - Baum was the guy that wrote "The Wizard of Oz"...something most SJWs LOVE...
Not 'blindly defending' rather I like most of Cerebus, his push for self publishing and direct to market, code avoidance, creator rights. I don't care if people don't agree with him 100% like he's a messiah, I certainly don't. But if you dismiss something that doesn't cater to and flatter your own biases, beliefs you'll end up with nothing. What you read will either flatter you and you are just wasting money and time - or it will offend you and you'll have to crusade to take it down.
>>> but thanks for adding a comment to my video and improving its engagement rating in the UA-cam algorithm.
And?
That's comments.
Do you really want only praise, no criticism, no debate?
At least you are more articulate than most - and again it's funny hearing you choke not wanting to admit you like ANY part of Sim's work lest a fellow "hipster of Hate" cancel you...
@@benb3316 Yes, me not being able to take you seriously because you think fighting for social justice is somehow bad is EXACTLY like 1984, how could I have been so silly.
I actually compliment Sim a lot in this piece, for example his mastery of comics craft and his ability to mimic comedic styles.
And I'm saying you can criticize me all you like, the algorithm loves it. Cheers!
@@LiterateMachine You do compliment Sim, and I respect that. But "Social Justice?" Yeah... no.
See, they tried that in Russia. Social Justice for the proletariat. The problem is, it never turns out well. People use pretty slogans to gain power, but must use that power to reward supporters and punish competitors in order to stay in power. Which results in human rights violations, opposition being cowed, and eventual breakdown and mass starvation.
SJW is just a lever to socialism. You know who doesn't like socialism? Anyone who has ever lived under it.
I would encourage you to look at a channel called The Voice of North Korea, by a woman who escaped from North Korea. Socialism may be hip to those who don't know any better, but BLM/antifa are the most destructive force possible, even and especially to those who they claim to fight for.
@@LiterateMachine And I will comment to further improve its engagement, not just because your video was quality, but because I know that's exactly what Ben B wants. Very nice work sir.
Dave Sim, isn’t crazy, He’s just a brilliant troll. An innovator.
How do you figure that…? You think he’s NOT 100% sincere about these beliefs?? Because he sure as hell does live them out.
@@RappingNinja are you insinuating brilliant trolls don’t troll because of their beliefs? A great troll (not an insult, it’s a compliment) trolls because they care.
Incoherent opinion. He's not crazy, he's a troll. Him believing something absolutely insane does not make him less of a troll, nor does it make him more crazy
All you've done is equate all forms of madness with trolling
he is right about women
40 years of misogynistic gangsta rap, no problem. One dude with a talking aardvark goes HAM on some broads for 3000 pages and it's game over. 🤷♂
I think it's little funny wringing your hands about "gangsta rap" in 2022 (did you sleep through the last 40 years or so?) but plenty of people have criticized misogyny in rap music. See for example: ua-cam.com/video/C3m3t_PxiUI/v-deo.html
In fact, a lot more people have criticized misogyny in rap music, both within and without the industry, than have ever written anything about freakin' Cerebus, which is a pretty niche thing.
Cerebus is absolute genius. Trailblazer (with the pinis) on independent scene.
As for Sim himself. Meh....Is he a Misogynist? Maybe...in the same way Bill Clinton is. But as we were all told during the sex scandals of clinton...."As long as it doesn't hinder his job".
And it (or whatever one finds ill about Sim)...clearly hasn't affected his job. He's incredibly prolific. And extremelly entertaining.
Seems a bit disingenuous to say someone is only a misogynist in the "same way Bill Clinton is", when Bill Clinton has never said that women are psychic voids who feed off of male light and should have all their rights stripped away and be completely subserviant to men. Dave Sim has said those things. I mean, Bill Clinton would never sign his name to something like the "five impossible things to believe before breakfast". These are not equivalent.
Idk dude... i had no idea what Sim was on about towards the end there.
@@EricRosenfield Sim has undiagnosed schizophrenia. Bill doesn't. And yknow what Woody Allen is a mysognist.
@@GagsAnimation Who mentioned Woody Allen? Nothing you're saying contradicts anything I've said.
@@EricRosenfield that's not the point.
I'm assuming anti feminists never watch CNN ? Lmao
Grooming didn't exist then, it wasn't term, much less a thing. He met a fan at 14. Age of consent was 14 in Canada, (16 now) and he dated and slept with her 7 years later. If this is wrong then cast the same rock at Elvis and every single member of Duran Duran, every metal band and every rap act who slept with a girl who was a fan and then slept with a band member later in their 20s.
I'm sorry if you don't understand why romancing a child with the intent to have sex with them when they're legal is unethical, I'm not sure I can explain it to you. It didn't just become unethical when the term became well known, it was always unethical.
@@LiterateMachine What evidence is that he "romanced" her? He signed her books? He kept in touch with a fan? If he was "grooming" her why didn't he sleep with her at 14 in Canada or 18 in the US? She had a thing for him and he DIDN'T take advantage of the situation although she was obviously "good to go" since day one. So she pops back into the picture when she is 21, TWENTY ONE, that's older than the average playmate. So years later, better part of a decade, he's coming off a divorce, she still has a thing for him, and they ended up DATING for months? Where you ever a HS senior you never looked at a freshman girl and said "wow she is going to be a real hottie one day". Then bump into her several years later and asked her out? The girl hasn't ever griped about this has she? So if its nothing to her, whats it to you? Way to judge people from 40 years ago by 'woke' standards of today. At most you can say its a little creepy, but Elvis or Humphrey Bogart, or Anna Nicole for that matter, they get a pass but not Sim?
@@davidlindsay9564 Who said any of those people get a pass?
@@EricRosenfield No one has ever said anything about them to speak of. There have been some remarks as of late about Elvis. But no one talks about Bogey and Bacall. Everyone reading this has people in their family tree where a bride was probably 16, and if not married by 18 she was an old maid. She was 21 when he went out with her...TWENTY ONE. This was over 30 years ago. But lets judge people by today's standards retroactively.
You’re arguing with yourself man. Bogey and Bacall’s age difference was a scandal back then and it’s still talked about now. Lots more ink has been spilled on that than on Sim. But keep trying, you seem to be having fun here. Dragging celebrities who’ve done unethical things out and asking why do they get a pass doesn’t make what Sim did ethical. That’s not how ethics works.
9:31 yeah like Teddy Roosevelt or Bill Clinton. Those monsters.
Not sure what exactly you're referring to there.
The commenter is possibly positing thus: that presenting caricatures, of the Presidents he cited (as examples), has been happening openly and for a very very long time - and by this example, he aims to show that cartoonish buffoonish caricature is not limited only to "the Trump-ster", whilst also showing that this practice is not specific only to this current time/the present day. Thats my guess.
@@joedent3323 People act like Trump is an exception. This buffoonery exists everywhere in politics. You just can't see it unless it's obvious. Especially with the alt right and alt left.
@@GagsAnimation I don't care about Politics - but hopefully you are a Cerebus fan. Im up to about issue 120 I think. I am taking a wee break and will pick it back up again soon. Have you done the entire run?
@@joedent3323 I really want to read Cerebus just for the art alone. I think it will really help develop my style. I've heard the writing is spectacular. Is it true? Despite everyone trying to demonize Dave, I feel more sympathy for him because of his mental incapability of seeing reality.
I own a paper copy of the first phone book, which he published and I bought, before his brain started to rot... it's weird cynicism is quite enjoyable for the first half, but it certainly rubs you the wrong way by the end.
I'll take Art Spiegelman over a creep like Sim any day of the week.