Cerebus: The Narrative And The Controversies
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- Опубліковано 28 вер 2024
- An in-depth look at the 300 issue, epic story of Cerebus The Aardvark. With a focus on the evolution of the comic book from an amusing, satirical series into a controversial, self-indulgent platform for the creator, Dave Sim.
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Here in Italy we had a similar, very popular comic called "Rat Man", by Leo Ortolani, which certainly took more than a page from Cerebus' book. Started off as a superhero parody in a fanzine, became a parodic series under the publisher Panini but progressively built itself up into an increasingly dense narrative and character exploration. It even developed its own version of Sim's self-indulgent authorial soapbox two thirds of the way in, albeit mercifully more focused on the comics industry and its characters rather than Dave Sim's own rabbit hole.
It never really reached Sim's highs in art and writing, but it also didn't quite lose sight of itself either up to its recent conclusion. It never fully dropped its parodic humor or metatextual elements either, even during very character-focused arcs; rather, it would blend its (often bizzare) interpretations of another comic or pop culture parodied with the series' overarching plots and characters. There's a very odd arc in which the protagonist's "darkest hour" is triggered by the (real life) failure of the comic's own, short-lived and mediocre cartoon adaptation. This is tied into the main narrative, is played almost entirely seriously and has lasting major consequences on the character throughout the rest of the series.
Unfortunately, as an odd Italian comedy comic its humor is often near-untranslatable (it's no Corto Maltese), which in my opinion is a damn shame to know it will never be more than a local, though popular, oddity.
I had been reading Rat-Man since its first Panini issue, when I was a kid. I literally grew up with it. The story arc you are referring to is magnificent. And yes, it never went as deep as Cerebus. While it stayed more enjoyable, comparing Leo's pick on religion to Dave's (to make an example) is like comparing the thoughts of a seventeen-year-old with those of a real rabbi. And I think the problem is ultimately a political one. Leo is a nice guy and he would never go against the opinion of the majority of people like Dave does, and I mean not even by himself! IMHO that's why Rat-Man is great but never really became "adult".
Well, dang, that was thorough and much better researched than other videos I've seen on this. Those tend to sound like they just discovered it a few months ago and feel they need to apologize for it. This is balanced and the criticism of how Dave drove the book into a narrative ditch is all the more tragic for it.
I usually put the break from Cerebus proper to Dave wearing a Cerebus skin at 200 myself, the end of MINDS. Till after that, you actually can exclude the READS text stuff from the narrative and lose nothing. But from GUYS onward(with brief respites like FALL AND THE RIVER, his last truly great arc) the Tract Dave comes to the fore and warps characterization and retcons HIS OWN WORK to make it fit his current opinions. I guess you could say this begins with FLIGHT, though. It just gets sadder and more psychodrama later--in MINDS he's interestingly self-critical, and there's the vision of how bad he'd be for Jaka if they reunited(which they, though, did).
re: 20:30 I haven't brought myself to read Cerebus past 200 but skipped to the end of "Going Home". Before he leaves Jaka, she expresses a lack of concern about the Cirinists who imprisoned her and broke up her marriage and Cerebus thinks to himself how clueless she is. But in "Jaka's Story," she was astute enough to cite the neutrality agreement between the Cirinists and Lord Julius and claim diplomatic immunity. Sim clearly made her an idiot just to further his point.
No. When she was with Rick, she was scared of the Cirinists and what they would do to her as an illegal dancer. Later she was a media darling, the Princess of Palnu, beloved and idolized by women of the regime she once feared. What people miss is that Jaka went through her own corruption, due to fame and obsequiousness rendered to her. She walked away from the good life when she was young due to her uncle's intrigues, but living in a frozen village as a housewife was a clear bitter pill when she realized she had to give up fame, being idolized, clothes, Cirinist service, etc. So, factor that in before you start drawing such ill-informed conclusions. Honestly, the blinders people put on...
Jaka is not dumb. She's brainwashed by the people who hate her. Sim was showing that otherwise intelligent, rational people become slaves to liberal ideology and abandon all caution or self-interest in favor of the far left agenda. He was basically calling out the Woke Crowd 20 years early.
Re: Cerebus and his change in characterization. The Cerebus lost in the storm is not the Earth Pig Born of early issues. High Society has dulled his edge, and he's as much a victim of the feminine political emasculation as Jaka is. Cerebus is just not self-aware enough to realize this change in personality, though the reader certainly does.
@@RockandrollNegro lol
@@RockandrollNegro lmao
What a fantastic and erudite summation of Cerebus and Dave Sim’s fall from the high table of top comic talent. In the 80s and early 90s he was up there with Alan Moore and the Hernandez Bros as one of the great writer/artist/creators pushing the form of the comics medium. Taken purely as a comics writer, he was up there with the best in the field. So much so that when Todd McFarlane bought in the best comic writers in the industry to write some issues of Spawn, Sim was there alongside Moore and Neil Gaiman. As a cartoonist he is second to none, his pacing and timing are immaculate, his layouts are astonishing and his lettering is unsurpassed. One of the comic greats. It is such a shame that all this is said with the proviso “his personal politics aside.”
And not even the kind of "personal politics aside" that you only find out about after reading the comic. It's all right in there. It's integral to the work. There's no way to read the comic and put the personal stuff aside.
Yet, Marvel, DC and Image can't produce a comic devoid of political posturing, and they're all celebrated for their "bravery." Dave Sim is a victim of wrongthink and cancel culture. Whether you agree with him or not is irrelevant, it's the story that stands or falls on its own merit.
Cerebus is a classic in spite of its creator's political and religious ideology; New Warriors is terrible because of its creator's political ideology. This is because Sim is a better writer than Kibblesmith, and it's a damn shame that hacks like that are buying BMWs while Sim lives in relative poverty. Whenever the legacy of Cerebus is brought up, it's with a disclaimer. Whenever Bitch Planet or Saga is brought up, it's with glowing praise. That's a terrible injustice.
@@RockandrollNegro But as the video goes into at great length it's not just "wrongthink". The ideology in Cerebus derailed the characterization and the story, both by twisting characters to fill their role in the ideology and by dragging it to a halt with great text pieces explaining it, whether that's the initial Victor Davis pieces in Reads or the later explanation of the Old Testament or particle physics in terms of male light/female void. (yeah, I read through the whole damn thing.)
Cerebus is a classic because of what Sim did before his Creator Breakdown. There are something like a 120 issues of Cerebus that are brilliant. Some of the best comics ever written. Even up to the end there are flashes of the old brilliance, but they're lost amongst the ideology.
I haven't read New Warriors, so I can't comment on that. The idea looks silly, but I suppose it's possible someone could make it work. Apparent not Kibblesmith. I've read less Marvel and DC in recent decades, but there's always some good stuff there - whether it's got political posturing or not. And the political has always been part of comics. Always. Sturgeon's Law applies of course - even to the stuff that isn't particularly political.
@Jeff McDonald It's fine to have a negative opinion of the second half of Cerebus because of its structure or its tangential breakdowns in narrative. I mostly agree with your criticisms of it, as well. What I'm opposed to is the Gary Groth campaign to silence Sim and his defenders, which is still going full steam today. The man was eviscerated from the comic industry because of his personal beliefs, which makes him a victim of wrongthink.
Again, if Sim's views were politically liberal and PC, we wouldn't even be having this conversation. If his narrative was pro-feminism and "men are bad", Cerebus would be mentioned in the same breath as "A Contract With God" and "Maus", as it once was. Instead, there's always going to be an asterisk next to it, and in ten years, you'll be called a "phobe" or "ist" of some type just for defending the first half of the series. Even mentioning that you enjoyed issues 200-300 are enough to get you blacklisted today from DC or Marvel. That's the worst type of fascism known to man.
@@jeffmacdonald9863 there is. It's a new method I invented which guarantees the removal of any forced ideology down people's throats in comic books. It's called cutting the pages out with a heavy duty pair of scissors.
Remember the good old days, when the most controversial thing about Cerebus was that he threw a baby? Good times.
Or that he raped Jaka.
@@RockandrollNegro wasn't it Astoria?
You're right. It was Astoria.
@@RockandrollNegro yeah. That scene kind of freaked me out, being as I'm a chick and all. I enjoyed most of the comics though.
One the biggest LOL I got from a comic. I’m laughing right now just remembering it!
Considering Dave's views on gender, it's probably worth noting that after Dave Sim divorced Deni Loubert, he at 29 had a 15 yr old girlfriend. He claims they didn't consummate the relationship until she was 22, but still...
Wasn't she 14?
She was 14 and groomed her until 18 and fucked her at that age, I think he even writes about this.
Ohh alrighty yup, that is completely fd, and though i was often drawn to the comic because of the intricate pen work by the background artist, i am so glad i never bought any, and put money in that dudes pocket
Did the girl's parents know?
@@film79 That I don't know.
Thank you. Being one who read Cerebus, seeing go from its lofty heights to the sad ending, I am glad to have additional views to consider. I have to agree with another fan who wrote, "Something fell-Yeah, it sure did."
Simm was apparently advertising his omnibus editions for direct sale to his readers in the comics, (bypassing all the local retailers)which pissed off all the comic shops who had helped build his readership.
Indeed. I think I go into more detail concerning this in the dedicated High Society video.
Cerebus is, and always will be, a masterpiece. The word 'unique' gets thrown around a lot, but this comic genuinely is just that. There is nothing else like it, and I can't think of a more fascinating 'funny book' that has been created. No other work in all of popular culture transmogrifies as much as the 300 issues of Cerebus. That is one of the things that make it so fascinating, and a stroke of genius.
It seems like a very fair informed and reasonable assessment of the Cerebus run. It doesn't appear you took too many shortcuts and the journey was engaging.
As A Comix Supporter, This Is A Fasinating Video Essay On The Mind Of A Interesting Comix Creator
Thank you for making this. Helpful.
Loving these complete analyses. Thanks for doing this.
I really do need to get my hands on this series, it just seems so weird and different.
Sim called Cerberus the pistachio nuts of comics....
I enjoyed this video, and learned a lot. :)
I tried, I really really tried to read this shit. I just can’t.
@strange brain parts what is the music/song you use in the intro?
"High Society" and "Church and State" are just so awesome!!
Cant wait to check this out
I really wish someone would explain just what it is that Cerberus learns when he gets ascended, no one anywhere I can find says what the history or origin myths actually are, only that he learns them. I give up searching, I was really hoping this video might have some answers as to what actually happens in the book. But I guess not. Well, I'm not reading it just to find out, if it was any good, I guess people would say what it is. I don't care anymore.
Phone books full of fun.
is it weird that this kind of makes me feel.... happy? for once, a man was actually punished for his misogynistic views, both by fans AND his industry. it makes me feel like his ideas actually _are_ abnormal. it’s comforting.
Which comes off as very odd to me when we compare this to the comic’s ending.
It ends with Cerberus dying alone and pathetic, unloved and unwanted.
With the final shots implying Cerberus being dragged into hell.
Idk if this shows that the author is aware that his beliefs are wrong and that he considers himself evil for thinking this way, or he doesn’t care.
It‘s a definitely a weird case
What have you ever done? This guy produced an amazing body of work, agree with his views or not. I think you are looking at this with too narrow a view.
@@goetia13 yeah. The guy has misogynistic views, so what? It's not like he's forcing his beliefs on other people. And he has had good relationships with women. And furthermore, there are way worse people out there especially in comics. Did you know Alan Moore is anarchistic?
I mean, his ideas were bizarre, even by comic book industry of its time levels. He wasn't just misogynistic, he also sounded genuinely mental in the last volumes.
@@GagsAnimation The latter half of Cerebus advocates his views, he spends page upon page outlining his beliefs in detail and allowing everything else to grind to a halt. When Moore advocates for anarchism in V for Vendetta he remembers that he's still attempting to tell a story and doesn't let the message get (to) in the way.
The character of Cerebus sounds alot like Eddy from the Ed Edd n Eddy show
This video was so cool
0:32 False, there are quite a few Japanese comics that have far surpassed that, and recently Spawn has surpassed it
Yeah but hes talking about western comics and no, even if Spawn technically surpased it, Cerebus was written and illustrated by the same person for all of its duration, you cant same the same about Spawn
Using comics as a platform to further your agenda instead of telling a story does seem to be a sure fire way to alienate your audience, may be one of the reasons Marvel is doing so badly comicwise.
@Ghost_Troupe More like dropping an extreme regressive agenda into the middle of a comic so that it completely overwhelms it with long text rants. Marvel's done nothing even vaguely similar.
This was full on creator breakdown on a scale that I don't think has been seen anywhere else in comics.
@@jeffmacdonald9863 New Warriors says hi.
@@psychocrysis2 New Warriors never came out.
I’m a little late to add my two cents about it, but to me it’s a sad, sad choice to destroy what is considered your masterpiece out of spite and refusal to admit your ignorance, instead of (ideally) wising up and changing your perspective or just leaving your shitty opinions out of your artwork. He should’ve known better than to make the comic about his existential issues
he took lsd
@@chidaluokoro9104 I know some people believe LSD is this magical thing that solves people’s problems by changing the person’s perspective and creating some new insight after consuming it, but it’s a drug (I’m NOT endorsing drug use, btw). Drugs like that don’t always cause the desired outcome and they don’t always work. It clearly didn’t work for him.
@@TheGamingDistrict1 ya true
What an insane story
High Society was peak Cerebus.
Interesting video. The Gender Wars are pretty old. It says a lot when a man writes out his emotions in a way that makes women look evil and he is demonized. The same industry insists on supporting women who do the same to men.
Sims wrote what he felt in his own book as an indie creator. Todays feminist authors are given popular female characters like Mockingbird, Hellcat etc to berate male readers in mainstream comics today.
One is villainized, the other is heralded.
no one like gender wars idk what your talking about
would you say that these feminist authors are draining you of your pure male light through the gravity of being voracious parasitic voids feeding on that light?
Like Sim literally wrote, straightforwardly, that woman are worthless void who do nothing but destroy men, who are the light of goodness. Nobody you're whining about has gone to that level of deranged bigotry, no matter what kind of spin you want to put on it.
What feminism? Everyone from Scott Adams to indies like Sim and Robert Crumb to mainstream wrirers like Moore and Miller and Millar have serious mommy issues. Their female characters are bimbo props that stand around half or all naked, getting abused and snuffed in "clever" ways in order to motivate the male character to take edgy and badass revenge.
Why are you boo-hooing about Mockingbird? That was a little 4-6 issue series while this is 300. Plus it was more " I'm a badass spy and men worship me " than " kill all men" in attitude.
Have you ever been laid? 😂
Glimpsed at your channel…obviously that’s a no 😂
Wow, what a sanctimonious tool.
You declare his opinions "demonstratively wrong" at 15:45.
On what basis? Because the SJW media wanted to distance themselves from it for 'wrong think'?
Because you/they don't like it, then a particular opinion must be wrong?
Lastly, his book was HIS, he can do what he wants with it, and your 'holier than thou' opinion doesn't change that fact.
Did it ever occur to you that Sim was less concerned with monetary gain and more with a platform to speak his mind?
Perhaps to you it is, but to many money is not the sole currency of value.
This x1000. Thank you
The more we fall into a societal morass, the more I understand that Dave Sim was right the entire time.
Offhandedly mentioning that someone's philosophical outlook is "demonstrably wrong" without offering reasoning behind your conclusion is the epitome of gaslighting.
dude Sim is claiming women are demonstrably emotional beings that can't achieve enlightenment like men which in of itself is a shallow sentiment
What kind of emotionally immature idiot thinks that misogyny isn't wrong?
Dave Sims was ahead of time and predicting what's happening now.
Note: Marvel Comics alienated it's fanbase and continue to insult them fans that love the Marvel characters (pre-SJW).
Who actually reads comics, we all know we just look at the artwork.
not everybody think's like you
Dave Sim was a serious drinker and smoker years ago. All of the best Cerebus was while he was high.
Excellent video. The only thoughts I would add to it are a slight belaboring of how much he lost due to the antifeminist screed. Before that scandal, he was looked up to by aspiring creators, peers, and comic shop owners. He traveled around the world doing signings and giving store owners and distributors advice on how to sell comics and giving extensive business and craft advice to other creators on how to succeed as a self-published comic book creator. Afterward, that was pretty much over and he went from being seen as the ultimate indie success story, celebrated everywhere he went (inside the comic biz, at least) to being avoided like radioactive waste. One of the biggest losses, in terms of his creative work itself, was the loss of the friendship of Diana Schutz, now-retired editor for Dark Horse Comics. She served as his informal editor on Cerebus, proofreading and advising from issue to issue, but how could she continue helping someone who saw her entire gender as parasitic trash? Even those peers who didn't see this as a friendship-ending event were driven away because Sim would not speak to anyone in the industry who wouldn't sign a document stating he was not a misogynist. He went out onto a remote island and then burned all of the bridges.
I don't disagree that, perhaps, I did underscore that point a bit too much. However, it was a significant development in the series and I wanted to cover it as thoroughly as possible. It's a hard balance to get right, objectively speaking. Thanks for the feedback and for watching!
The guy sounds fucking crazy.
What I found funny is how Dave Sim
's views and points about feminism have been reused by the same types of modern feminists that they were originally directed towards. As if irony just went out for a sodding stroll. Adding to this is the fact on how some of the same criticism he made all the way back then, are now also being used by people that have parroted their opposition to feminism for nearly ten years now.
@@ianmaluk1 I'm yet to see a feminist refer to women as "voids" that suck the "light" out of men. Dave just needs to be gay and be done with it.
@Rohan Clancy "Unorthodox" is an interesting way of saying hateful and reprehensible.
Are you omniscient? If not, how could you possibly know the efforts that were made to "sway or convince" Dave Sim? He had friends in the industry. You think the very first time he felt that way about women was when he published Reads? Also, he published 114 Cerebus comics after issue 186 and has other works of varying success. Not quite blacklisted and if he was, it was self-inflicted. I wonder if you're as tolerant of illegal immigrants, BLM and antifa as you are of misogynistic, mentally unwell comic writers.
I had always heard about Cerberus as one of the “true” comics out there, one of the greatest ever published, but I never bothered with it. This video is so great in summing up what the big deal is as well as why I’ve heard about Cerberus but why no one actually recommended it to me.
For the art alone, it's worth your while. By the midpoint it was the best looking monthly around -- and the experimentation!
Anthony Cabrera - I would highly recommend it. Take what you like from it and leave the rest.
What do you mean by “true” comics?
@@thefvguy5648 what I meant was that it was considered the best the medium had to offer and I often saw Dave Sim included in many high profile collaborations. But with the controversies, that acclaim has been notably stripped and so the series is rarely brought up when the high points of comics are being considered
Wait so Dave Sim is considered a mysognist but Robert Crumb is considered a genius? That guy literally portrays women as objects of sexual assault for his sexual fantasies. He even makes women love how much they’re getting assaulted
Sim was incel before incel was cool.
Oh, wait, it was never cool.
@@marc4177 nah its definitely cringe
would've like to have heard more about Gerhard (the scenery illustrator)
once he came aboard, he really took the art to the next level. and as far as I know, he stuck it out and never got involved in the controversy. I don't know if that was dedication to art or a paycheck, but impressive nonetheless.
Gerhard had almost all of his work done when the controversy began. Sim offered him to leave with full pay, but Gerhard stuck it out. Once his backgrounds were finished, he sold his share of Aardvark-Vanaheim back to Sim and washed his hands of the character, and by extension, Dave Sim.
@@RockandrollNegro How did Gerhard finish his work on the book with 15 years left to go?
I should've rephrased that better. During the original wave of controvery, Gerhard didn't care. He was there to draw background work. After Cerebus ended and the second wave of controversy broke out, Gerhard was still a full time partner/VP of A-V and had several projects going: Following Cerebus, Cerebus Art (the website), Cerebus Archive, and the re-releases of the phonebooks, among other things.
Dave, at this time, was making everyone sign a "Dave is not a misogynist" waiver before contacting him, which got the shit stirred once again. As this was about to go down, Sim offered to pay Gerhard for all the work still pending (most of which had been completed but still needed refinement), and he could go his own way. Gerhard said that he would stick it out until all current obligations were met, then step down as VP. Sim began negotiations to buy Ger's 40% share of A-V out, making Sim full owner.
You have to give Dave credit for one thing....He took that acid trip vision and made it real! Not saying it's all good, but he did get it done.
Thanks very much for this overview and analysis. I was 20-ish when there was a buzz about Jaka's Story. I completed that series but couldn't afford to go get those that came before, which people say High Society onwards are masterpieces. Unfortunately, I tried to follow from Jaka onwards and the aardvark totally alienated me. After your explanation, I now understand. It's Dave's fault, not mine.
This is becoming a full on travesty this channel isn't swimming neck deep in subscribers yet. I found it over a year ago with the Miracle Man retrospective it was so well done I subscribed. The content on this channel is way to professional and researched to not be viewed by people on mass. If everyone subbed can find a stranger and shake them as you tell them they must subscribe we can double the count overnight!
Thank you. I do appreciate you taking moment to endorse this channel with a very humbling comment. Thank you again.
I started on #79 monthly and stuck with it into the 200's although by then I was kind of barely glancing at it. The only notes I would add, casually, are that it's worth remembering that CEREBUS had one of the largest female readerships in North American comics--to the degree of flaunting--before READS, and that he spends considerable effort in that screed trying to distinguish his "male" and "female" conceptions from individuals (success is up the the reader, but the attempt is in there several times).
I really think Sim's great mistake was tying himself to the single project. Had he not done that, there would have been outlets for venting. But CEREBUS wound up being a walled garden for his ideas, and thus is an illustration of them overtaking him.
I enjoyed this video. I've always felt after reading the whole series that I was reading the writings of a man slowly losing his sanity. Schizophrenic page layouts, words taking over both pages and encroaching over top of the art, long and tedious 4th wall breaks and the absolute deadly focus on defining gender roles as brick wall solid as he could possibly pull off. Like some Lovecraftian tale of an author forced to make 300 issues by an unknowable, indescribable force (LSD in this case :))
It's interesting how even mentioning his anti-feminist fever dream essays invites trolls to dive into your comment section. I think they want there to be "subtlety" to that part of Dave Sim's legacy. But, there's no subtlety here. He was like your drunk uncle for more than a third of the series and literally no one actually "reads" all of the last 100 comics. For me, Jaka's Story was the pinnacle of blending seriousness and cartoony in a way that felt masterful. I know many people are nostalgic for the Silly early stuff or like the bat-shit of the later stuff, but I just loved how well-rounded that story felt with no one coming out pretty in the end. Either way though, absolutely fantastic achievement in comics and I think you've captured the controversies well here.
Wait so Dave Sim is considered a mysognist but Robert Crumb is considered a genius? That guy literally portrays women as objects of sexual assault for his sexual fantasies. He even makes women love how much they’re getting assaulted
@@GagsAnimation Not "considered" a misogynist' IS a misogynist. Crumb might be, I'm not familiar enough and most of his work alienates me, so I'm not qualified to answer that.
I'd recommend checking out the classic multi-page manifesto Dave printed in the back of Cerebus. And wow, the extensive and consistent letter section responses. It's the highest tier of "I don't hate women, but..." and would be funny if it didn't go on soooo long.
@@GagsAnimation Nobody mentioned Robert Crumb but you you weirdo.
I could be wrong because my familiar with Crumb is cursory, but could it be that the difference is that those Crumb stories are unabashed porn with no serious intent, while Cerebus is a manifesto?
Nicely said.
This channel deserves more love.
Jacob DeCoursey Not after shallow videos such as this.
The sad thing about this is what has become of Dave Sim - at 64 he's lost his ability to draw and has abandoned his somewhat anticipated project, "The Strange Death of Alex Raymond," and basically lives on the meager income still trickling in from Cerebus. Still, despite the controversies, I would think he should be remembered as one of the pioneers of the comic book industry.
Agreed
Hes actually got a kickstarter going on ans cerebus in hell coming soon
@@DJTMANE ooo this should be interesting. Hopefully he's learned his lesson from the last few issues of cerebus.
@@GagsAnimation maybe not because he may have interpreted current events to meet his beliefs. Such as what happened to Vic Mignogna, Johnny Depp, etc
Sim's 'new Gerhard' Carson Grubaugh has finished work on Strange Death of Alex Raymond and it is due out in September. Looks fantastic, too...
I find your analysis into Cerebus interesting, in that you don't just say the problem with the series later on is that it's misogynistic garbage written by a misogynistic scumbag, but rather, the writer abandoned the narrative in favor of lecturing the reader directly of his views. Rather than telling a tale with complex interesting characters in a unique world, he decides to let his views and beliefs be known and not use the narrative to explore it. I feel that if he really wanted to this, he shouldn't have done it in a fictional story, but rather in a separate book where he unleashes his madness, sure it would be crazy and terrible, but at least he wouldn't have sacrificed the narrative of his story. As well as the examination of why Sim did so, which is his need to make a point and lecture his readers directly. For Sim's views he uses this snarky defensiveness and acts like the problem is that his readers are mad at him for not sharing the same views as them, ignoring that he has said reactionary, horrific things that are guaranteed to alienate him from others. He definitely blames others for coming down on him, and ignores that it's his actions that caused the reaction in the first place.
oh cerebus , i have the biggest love an hate relationship with this series, in one hand i tend to think about the characters, the world, and the philosophy, time and time again , on the other hand, that thought is
inevitably connected to the many controversies , and how much the comic is flawed.
I owned a comic store for 20 years and when people would ask me what it was about I would say it about an entire lifetime of bad decisions by every character in the book, including the author, and the consequences of those decisions. Interestingly the only character to make an arguably good decision is a woman, Astoria, who decides to drop out of the story. It's sad that, on top of unquestioningly raising the bar or how good comics could be, Dave essentially invented the collected edition, something that was fought tooth and nail by most comic shops and all distributors. He's put a lot of money into the pockets of almost everyone who works in comics, including a great many who trash him publicly. Pity.
BS
Well said.
I just finished reading this tedious garbage series. The art is fantastic, Dave and Gerhard are great artists. Dave is a shitty writer, though. I guess if you like unfunny jokes and long winded rants, it’s perfect for you. I actually like a consistent and compelling narrative. That’s why the death of the title character had no resonance by the end. There was just a random series of events written around it based on whatever Dave felt like writing and drawing about at the time, not what helped drive the story and characters forward.
Spawn has broken Cerebus record as the longest running independent comic.
Yes. The difference being, Dave Sim wrote and illustrated all of Cerebus, with the assistance of Gerhard. I don't believe Todd McFarlane can make the same claim.
Spawn also has far less readable issues.
Spawn really lasted some 30 issues :-D
Cerebus is a unique masterwork.
I thought Savage Dragon was the longest.
@@caprice28 It will become that soon but I will never beat most long runnning manga.
"dave decided to drop acid everyday for a week" lmfaaooooo talk about being dedicated to working and finishing the comic. In theory I can see why he did it, acid doesnt make you go to sleep you will be up for 12 hours or so, that means more time for drawing, making more chapters and finishing your comic while i guess maybe being inspired by other ideas during the trip.
It should have ended with Form and Void. The ending with Cerebus saying "Go on, beat it and scram" to Jaka is powerful. Those last 2 volumes are not good to say the least.
Great video. All the meninist snowflakes leaving negative comments are a sad joke.
Simpin' ain't easy.
Good video. My analysis, at the time, was pretty much the same. I started reading it when the High Society arc was being released as floppies, and noticed with growing suspicion, during the Church and State arc that all the female characters aside form Jaka were basically turning evil. I decided that if Jaka ever turned into just another one of those whining, demanding, unsympathetic female characters, I'd drop the book. When she did, I did. I probably should have dropped it earlier as some of those mainly-text issues were a slog to get through, but I was always hoping it would turn back toward the gleeful political satire of High Society. It didn't (at least as far as I went).
As a woman, I consider Dave's spiral into misogynistic insanity to be one of comics' biggest let downs. He built a lively, beautiful fantasy world in the first half and destroyed it utterly in the second.
Now his career's in the toilet and his comic almost forgotten. Serves him right.
Serves him right? May I remind you there are much more down pieces of shit in this world that literally get away with murder? The worst thing this guy did was write a stupid ass essay in a graphic novel. Half of the comic industry is like this.
@@GagsAnimation I didn't say he murdered anyone, why are you bringing that up?
@@theotherther1 neither did i
@@theotherther1 the question is why do you think Sim deserved this? You have no more a right to decide who gets punished and who doesn't anymore than I have.
@@GagsAnimation I assume you didn't vote?
The Sin City series would make a great video too
I'm torn. I've wanted to read Cerebus for years, but either had no access, or it didn't climb up the priorities list as fast as others.
Now I find I have access (if not time), but the more I hear and learn about Dave Sim, the less inclined I am to even pick it up.
Cerebus was featured in Spawn #10, back in 93. From what l remember ...l think Cerebus was consulting Spawn in that issue.
Raise your hand if you found out about this series because of the "Cerebus Syndrome" trope on TV Tropes.
I found out about Cerebus from reading the comic since 1982.
Marvin Harrison Smith II good for you random old af dude
@@RockandrollNegro Thanks, wiseass. No one cares.
@@JTR_3 no need to be harsh
It's strangely prescient that Cerebus the comic ended in a similar way to Cerebus the character: "Alone. Unmourned. And Unloved."
Very sharp observation.
this is the first I heard of cerebus .and I got no love to share
I remember reading cerebus one of the most random and great comics I've ever read, I should get more lol
Depending how deep you want to go, there are a couple points you might consider including, one of which I’ve never seen anybody bring up before, and another that is based on rumor and may take some digging into.
The first point concerns Dave’s MO in choosing objects of satire. If you track the history of comics with the history of Cerebus, it’s clear that Dave often chooses to satirize very attention-getting trends, Plus, if you read his own writing on the reason he did the Mind Games comic, you can see that he has a bit of a chip on his shoulder about his status as a comics artist; he essentially says that he felt provoked by a Neil Adams layout in Deadman to prove that he could do something more innovative with the medium (it’s interesting that he doesn’t say he inspired him, just that it made him feel competitive). These two things become relevant if you realize what was going on in comics, and specifically in independent comics, at the same time as 186 came out. That was the height of what were called “autobiographical comics“, the most popular practitioners being Joe Matt, Seth, and Chester Brown. There had always been autobiographical comics, of course, but these were notable for their extreme frankness about masturbation and the willingness of the creators to show themselves in a negative light. Joe Matt was particularly notable for drawing a comic in which he admitted to having hit his girlfriend during an argument. Why should this matter, and how can we trace a connection to Cerebus? It matters because through this lens we can see 186 as an attempt to outdo the artists who were then being praised for pushing the limits of the medium, and in particular those who were being spoken of as bringing comics a new measure of artistic daring and maturity. And we can trace a direct connection to Cerebus through the jam comics Dave Sim and Chester Brown did together, each drawing a new page and then faxing it to the other one, comics that were printed in a few issues of Cerebus as a back-up story. During the 186 controversy, when contacted for comment, Chester Brown said something like “I don’t know if he’s a misogynist, all I know is he’s fun to draw comics with.” Perhaps it’s just a coincidence, but if so, it’s a notable coincidence, that during a period where extremely self confessional black-and-white comics that were willing to present their creators in a negative light, particularly regarding women, were being praised as the most groundbreaking works, Dave Sim comes out with an extremely self-confessional black-and-white comic that presents its creator in a negative light, particularly regarding women.
The second point, based entirely on hearsay, is that it has been alleged that Deni Loubert cheated on Dave Sim with Marshall Rogers. I wish I could remember exactly where I encountered that rumor, but all I can remember specifically is a cryptic piece of comics art that might obliquely references it. Dan Simpson, creator of Megaton Man, came out with his own black-and-white comic a bit later, apparently inspired by Sim’s boosterism of self-publishing. In this comic he has his parody of Spider-Man, Wall-Man, interact with someone he refers to as his mentor, a character that spews bitter, deranged, and misanthropic dialogue. Wall-Man swings away and thinks something along the lines of “what am I supposed to do when the person I’ve based my entire life on is a person who has turned a single personal tragedy into an utterly toxic worldview?” I know it is weak tea to mention such a potentially inflammatory rumor without providing more solid references than that, but here’s the thing: even if it never happened, even if all that actually happened was someone started a rumor that it happened, that in and of itself could have driven Dave around the bend.
So in the grand question of “why did Dave do it,“ It might be worth mentioning that there could have been an element of competitive artistic hubris, and that a rumor about Deni Laubert may have tainted his perspectives on women irreparably.
beautiful artwork tho
Woah, this is a very well made analysis and video essay, congratulations! You made me interested in this comic!
I keep seeing this promoted and wanting the title to be "Cerberus" instead of "Cerebus"
Of all the good things he had done in his work, he had to re-con to justify his increasing mental deterioration. It’s unfortunate and devastating, really.
My favorite issue was when Cerebus met Kieth Richards and Mick Jagger.
The only Cerebus I've read is the early Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles crossover story, and I had no idea who the character was or why he was even in the story. The story was later adapted into the 2003 TMNT cartoon, where Cerebus was omitted and nothing of value was lost. (A non-anthropomorphic aardvark makes a cameo, though.)
At one point it looked like Sim wasn't going to let Mirage reprint the story and they had Jim Lawson create a replacement story. Both stories involve time-travel, and the replacement story essentially used time-travel to "overwrite" the original one. I don't know what the issue was but the crossover WAS reprinted and the replacement story was no longer needed. (I think I've seen the replacement story, so it must've been published somewhere online at one point.)
Dave Sim has talked about this in one of his essays in his comics. It happened originally as just a goof between Dave and the turtles guys, and given Dave’s views on creator ownership, he made them agree that the existence of the issue would never be used to assert any ownership of the Cerebus character at all. According to Sim, after that, whenever any new entity took over the turtles, their lawyers would inevitably hunt him down and want him to sign over rights to the issue, which of course, Dave being Dave, he refused to do. At the time Dave wrote the essay, apparently, no one had yet decided to just release a replacement story, but it makes sense that they did.
*reads first few parts of ceribus*
Oh ceribus is great!!
*reads his hate on women*
*is female and 15 at the time*
...
😟
Never read ceribus again.
Nearly forgot all about it.
Beanworld is better tbh
I'm gonna need a drink now...
Has anyone tried to do anything with this character after the series ended. Or was the controversy that bad no one has ever touched it ever. It sounds really bad just listening to what you have to say but can you bring this character back into the Modern Age and do something new with it or is it just dead and gone for good?
It's a creator owned property, so no one else could do anything with him without Sim's permission and Sim is done with the story.
@@jeffmacdonald9863 ok
@@jeffmacdonald9863 Sim has stated that when he dies, Cerebus will enter the public domain.
Anyone can do their own Conan parody funny animal character if they want. No need to use Cerebus.
LSD
If you told me in 1988 that Dave Sim would go crazy I would totally believe it based on the style and production of the book. Psychedelic doesn't begin to describe the Gerhard backgrounds. And an aardvark becoming Pope is just a little off. Loved every page of it.
I've been searching for a video like this for MONTHS. Thanks!
You're very welcome! Thanks for watching.
There is definitely another, if you search cerebus on UA-cam it'll be the first result, its about on par with this, quality wise, but its nice to have a couple of perspectives, mind you the conclusions aren't too different
Back in the day I would lend someone an omnibus and they would like it so much they would buy the next phone book and lend it to me. It was great for about 200 issues.
A masterpiece is defined by its imperfections + flaws. I still believe Cerebus to be the pinnacle of "comics". It genuinely did shake the world with its impact, nothing else since has even come close. Melmoth is titanic.
I do wish someone could do a semi-reboot of Cerebus and made it into what it should have been. But for now, I think Cerebus is a tragic story about how a creator destroyed his own creation.
Brilliant video.
Would love to see you cover Endtown.
Great video, thank you so much
A boy and his Aardvark..... sigh.
I've had a few conversations with Gerhard. He such a charming man. He pretty well doesn't speak to Dave since the series ended.
Did Gerhard share any stories about what it was like working with Dave Sim?
Good shit. Very accurate .
I wonder how different Cerebus would be if sim never took acid
or got divorced...
Subbed
Sounds like a good read
Damn.
Wow. This video reminded me of a lot of comics that are being published right now. A writer using comics as a platform to push their political agenda. How ironic.
Great video.
Exactly, at least Dave Sim had interesting ideas and true love for the media, totally different now with a Mob of Hcks taking over and destroying the industry.
@@mahmudmurad4655 dude the industry was destroyed in the 90
Everything is political. You only notice when it disagrees with your beliefs.
No no lol. Okay. Yes, you can force everything to be political if you really wanted to, sure.
@@Nono-hk3is You contradict yourself. If everything truly is political, then nothing really is.
Great work!
First
And 3 years later it's now common practice to use your comic to push your personal views at the expense of alienating your audience.
Always has been. They've just gotten ham-fisted and worse at hiding it.
Genius, both of them, self indulgent as heck, but , genius none the less
I'm reading Cerebus right now (I've just finished issue 200) and I think that this analysis is partial and unjust. Not enough context is given, while personal (and IMO shallow) value attributions are provided without real argumentation. For example: saying that the rape of Astoria is presented in a light-hearted and distasteful way is wholly disputable. The very next issue in Cerebus revolves around the main character's guilt for what he just did, presented in a visionary nightmare... Moreover, Astoria completely transcends her former guilts in the Women and Reads phonebooks, coming out as the both the most decisive and most positive amongst the main characters of the saga. Moreover, it was the Duchess, not Astoria, who was inspired by Deni. Moreover... I could go on, just about this very example. Astoria's rape is one of the most disturbing scenes I ever read on a comic book, the work of a genius.
These inaccuracies and diffuse shallowness reveal that Strange Brain Parts didn't really read Cerebus with care, so I wonder: why should somebody make an analysis of something they don't know well? Maybe is there a political intention behind this short review? Why, for instance, calling what of course must be a very quick overview (24 minutes for over 6000 pages and 27 years) "an in-depth look"? If it was the first 300 issues of Amazing Spider-Man or Batman (which are, by the way, way way easier to analyse than 300 issues of Cerebus) would have anyone dared present a 24 minutes analysis as "in-depth"? I doubt it, and I think that's just one symptom amongst many that this video is not neutral, meaning it's not informative.
Excellent and very underrated comment.
The video is quite informative. You just don't like the information provided.
@@the_exegete The information is partial, and half truths are not really informative.
If you ask me which way to go and I tell you the shortest one but I omit that the way is interrupted, my "information" is really a bad joke, don't you think?
@@lucassiccardi8764 Please tell me that you don't actually find these two situations equivalent. Please, for the love of Allah (or whatever Sim calls the patriarchal Abrahamic sky god he worships) tell me that you don't think directions to McDonald's and a brief overview of a gigantic comic series are similar types of information that should be judged by the same criteria. Please tell me your response was a mistake and that you wish to start over.
@@the_exegete Bring the rhetorics down, please. The example is of course simplistic, but this doesn't mean it doesn't apply.
Let's make another one. Politicians (almost) always show you half the truth. So they're gonna tell you that they make war to bring democracy when they are actually looking for petroleum. Of course they're gonna tell you some true things about the country they are about to attack, but what they are leaving out would usually overturn the understanding of the whole scheme.
Do you like this example any better?
So mockery of religion is cool but mockery of women is not? The view of religion was clearly a strawman of religion just as the view of female was a strawman. The real issue is having a problem with one but not the other.
Well, the rant on women hit first and drove away most of his audience. Sim's rewrite of the Bible came much later and was as unreadable, but likely far fewer people saw it.
@@jeffmacdonald9863 the comic actively mocks religion throughout and that was published before the letter on females. The comic is still beloved so he clearly didn't lose his audience. The problem remains being hypocritically offended by one thing and not another. Look forward to hearing how evil the Little Rascals were for having the "He-man woman hating club".
@@christopherwinner4 Well, if it helps, by the end Sim was deeply religious, even if his version of religious was eccentric, to say the least.
@@jeffmacdonald9863 oh yeah. Even his own view of religion later on in life was a creatively wild strawman.
What the hell are you even talking about? One is an believe, whose influence on society can be debated (especially, in its relationship with authoritarianism), the other is a gender, and not a "mockery" of it, but a direct attack.
Based
15:54 egotistical need to make a point. Sounds also like the other side...as well.
He was kindly vaguely right about women though
Cerebus: Proof that an independent artist can be both a commercial and critical success on his own terms for decades without compromising, as long as he doesn't mind driving himself completely, literally insane.
Misogyny is just becoming a buzzword for both militant feminists and militant anti-feminists as they both just assume it's just a word to throw shame on people without understanding the definition. They just react on how other would react if the word is used instead of what it's actually mean since for them, it's just a magic word to make people blindly jump on the hate train without questioning.
The meaning of "hatred on women", it's mean that you have the belief that ALL women are inferior to men. Same with misandry. Both misogyny and misandry are sexist and wrong since you are just simply idealizing and judging people just because of what they are born instead of people as individuals.
Some feminist scholars do think that just because you made some misogynist rant doesn't necessary mean you are actually misogynist as the context behind the actions on why the individual does the way it does is what's important. Some individuals simply just make hateful bigoted rants as a way to express their upset emotions just because they feel very down and thus don't think rationally while don't actually hating all women such as their mothers.
I know it seems like those obnoxious bitchy valley girls and militant SJW activists gets too much attention in our society due to their whiny loud noises but they aren't the majority as they just screams louder than they actually are. That's not the reason to blame the whole female gender/sex as most women are actually tired of these assholes as well. Same with rich men and patriarchy in history, they are not representatives for the whole male gender/sex either.
The problem was not Sim's agenda. The problem was that his was not a leftist agenda. His last three issues were a profecy that is happenning now.
you make no sense boy
It's true, the prophecy that Dave Sim will die alone, unloved, and unmourned is absolutely coming true.
Take your meds 😂
Dave sims called out feminist and what would eventually destroy the comic book industry… He was right
Dave Sim is also a groomer soooo
Cerebus was the best and greatly advanced the medium in ways beyond great story telling and art. Sim pioneered the collected issue trade paperback still popular today. He showed the big companies that stories don't have to be stupid to be popular. And that you don't have to sell out to make a living in comics.
A real giant of the industry