You clearly left off Lobelia Sackville Baggins! But more seriously It seems that the Werewolves from the 1st ( second?) Age deserve a place here. 1 on 1 they seem much tougher than an individual Nazgul. And Shelob was only powerful relative to lone hobbits or goblins. She should not be in the same category as Ungolianth, as you mentioned, possibly the most powerful creature. The watcher in the water also seems more powerful than Shelob ( or comparable),. The question is, was the watcher actually evil or not?
@@Kelvinpierre99 Uruk-Hai, Orc and Goblins are all of the same species but the names are just different. Uruk-Hai are Orcs, but they're more of an Orc that resembled the height of a man
Honorable mention to the Nameless Things in the depths beneath Moria. We don't know enough about them to put them in the list, but if they're more ancient than Sauron, then it's safe to say they're not creatures to be trifled with.
I see in my head things like the watcher and hidious looking creatures. Even giant moles that are blind and look like ice age megafauna on earth. Super fast and can smell and hear food in solid rock. Creatures like Graboids lol.
@@moisavictoria we do not even have examples of what any of them are anywhere. It was thought the the kraken like thing that attacked The fellowship was one of the nameless things. Worked it's way up in the water under Moria and in the lake from the bottom of Arda.
What about the nameless things in the depths of Moria, Gandalf said he saw them during his fighting Durin's Bane but refused to speak of them cuz they were so vile and evil
We know little about them. The Watcher in the Water is the most famous or infamous of these. They were 'natural' creatures and not corruptions or imbued with supernatural power such as the dragons or balrogs. Their origins is shrouded in mystery. Tolkien referring to them as "evil" is also a bit of a stretch. Were they fully sentient or mostly guided by instinctual impulses? If the latter then they weren't 'evil' in its purest definition. It makes total sense they weren't included in this video.
@@jamesaron1967 Exactly! The nameless ones were unplanned creations, that were not meant to be. They had no power, but existed as living beings, that had no place in the order of Middle Earth, so they are effectively just outcasts, that were never insiders.
Hear me out: a dark souls game set in the first age of middle earth. You traversing the towering halls of angband full of cyclopean architecture, going up against godlike beings like gothmog and ungoliant. And morgoth as the obvious final boss
@@ytbmax9371 not sure theres any lore fitting character, since the game would have you beating all these being when this obviously doesnt happen in the actual lore
Honestly, i think you've just predicted the next lotr game. A dark souls like game set in middle earth would be awesome. I hate it because i just dont have the patience but id watch a play through. Imagine all the potential bosses, like itd be awesome
I think Carcharoth, the greatest werewolf to ever live, probably deserves an honorable mention as well. He managed to kill Huan the wolfhound, who had previously defeated Sauron in a 1v1.
Ungoliant after consuming all the light of the two trees, a.k.a. mega- Ungoliant musta been pretty darn powerful, as it managed to overwhelm the most powerful Valar (Melkor) in 1v1 fight
@@timomueller8504 well imagine a spider with most of all evil and 6x it you get ungoliant. (Side tangent)Which means that Shelob has a pretty big capacity for evil doing and yet Shelob might just be the nicest and sweetest of all ungoliants children as shelob doesn't really do much between the ending years of the 1st age and the beginning of the fourth age. I'm pretty sure ungoliant and Tom bombadil named themselves thus giving themselves purpose unlike the nameless things that most likely don't want or need names they just are and thus purposeless.
@@cruisingwithoutsail6585 Not really, Tulkas is the best fighter but Melkor is much more powerfull. Effectively Melkor almost destroyed the world twice and he was the only one who could stand against Idea of Eru. But when Melkor turned into the dark lord, he was actually quite weak. Silmarils were hurting him, he lost most of his powers when he invest it inot Ungoliath and after that into other creations. He effectively was a shade of his former self when he was met by Host of Valar. His story is quite sad, because he fail and he lsot everything and even his former status, powers and might.
If those damn Sackville Baggins are not on the list with milk souring face Lobelia as their main chieftain,then its not a list worth making. Even Anchalagon seems nicer.
Morgoth gave power to ungoliant before their attempted robbery and was Definitely stronger than her till then, after the robbery, Ungoliant absorbed a lot more power from the trees and even from the silmarils and had the power of Morgoth as well At this point and beyond during their interaction, she was stronger than ( the weakened) Morgoth Hardly a sam to shelob parallel
@@Phoenix-King-ozai Also, Ungoliant would never be able to kill Melkor really, only destroy his physical form. Melkor is an immortal spirit so that parallel is way off.
@@magecraft2 She temporarily overpowered him and caused him pain because of her temporary but enormous power boost and morgoth weakening himself The balrogs heard his cry of pain and came to drive her away We don't know for certain that she could have killed him or even caused him mortal harm, even to his body Even sometime after this incident, Morgoth was "Yet, the mightiest of all things living, in Arda" Yet because he weakened himself so much Sam only won because of galadriel's phial Something so rare and powerful is Hardly his own power, it was a one time lucky fluke Very impressive, but hardly comparable to melkor and ungoliant, Ungoliant won a one time lucky fluke So it was almost like its reversed
@The Broken Sword Personally I think if you include Sauron, Saruman and Ungloiant then you have to include Morgoth. Afterall none of them originated from Middle Earth which seems to be your criterion for excluding Morgoth. But that's just my opinion, and I think your content is fantastic overall.
The “Nameless things” weren't corrupt in the same way as fallen angels or demons (Melkor, Sauron, Balrogs, etc.) One theory takes Gandalf’s statement that the Nameless Things were older than Sauron more literally. The Nameless Things must have been created long back during the Ainulindalë (Great Music / Great Song) when Ilúvatar made the Ainur (Valar & Maiar) by manifesting his concepts as living beings. Upon their creation, when nothing else yet is made, Ilúvatar teaches the Ainur the art of 'Music', which becomes their life and work. However, Morgoth (aka Melkor) added Discord to the music to terrible effect. Christopher Tolkien (J.R.R. Tolkien’s son) actually wrote about this topic: “Out of the discords of the Music, not directly out of either of the themes, Eru’s or Melkor’s, but of their dissonance with regard one to another - evil things appeared in Arda, which did not descend from any direct plan or vision of Melkor." As such, evil things like Ungoliant and The Watcher in the Water were created out of discord and entered either Arda or the Void. This is just a theory though, and you have to take into account that Christopher Tolkien, not J.R.R. Tolkien spoke about the nameless things. But I like this theory the most out of the rest of them. Whos knows, theres probably lots more of these name things in the very depths of Arda or the void.
Nah, Morgoth is more powerful 10,000 balrogs ? Where did you get that from ? There are at most 7 maiar balrogs and the rest were lesser spirits with some fire powers killable by lower Elves and even armed Men Ungoliant only overpowered Morgoth and made him scream, because she absorbed the power of two trees and also Morgoth gave her power right before the theft and was definitely stronger till then She was also his servant until "She became a mistress of her own lust" We don't know if she could ever have seriously hurt Morgoth or how long the power boost would have lasted Morgoth was still more powerful She might have been physically stronger temporarily Kind of like how tulkas beat Morgoth despite him being more powerful than all of the Valar combined
@@Phoenix-King-ozai It was an exaggeration, but what is more too my point is the combined power of all the Balrogs, a full army, and Melkor is what it took to defeat her, and had she been able to continue, her hunger would have been unstoppable. Melkor knew this, and it was his fear that made him scream.
@@Phoenix-King-ozai With her having devoured the trees and some of his power she was stronger at that point in time, but even with his full power and her with just the power from the trees, they were even at the least.
Definitely ungoliant. She devoured the twin trees of ezellohar and was powerful enough the make melkor sweat in knowing that he made a bad deal in allying with her, since her appetite is literally insatiable. He broke his word, giving with one hand and witholding the other, when he was supposed to give with both hands, hiding the silmarils which she desired to eat more than anything. Melkor narrowly escaped from that encounter. That alone should tell you of her great power and evil. A match for morgoth himself.
The “Nameless things” weren't corrupt in the same way as fallen angels or demons (Melkor, Sauron, Balrogs, etc.) One theory takes Gandalf’s statement that the Nameless Things were older than Sauron more literally. The Nameless Things must have been created long back during the Ainulindalë (Great Music / Great Song) when Ilúvatar made the Ainur (Valar & Maiar) by manifesting his concepts as living beings. Upon their creation, when nothing else yet is made, Ilúvatar teaches the Ainur the art of 'Music', which becomes their life and work. However, Morgoth (aka Melkor) added Discord to the music to terrible effect. Christopher Tolkien (J.R.R. Tolkien’s son) actually wrote about this topic: “Out of the discords of the Music, not directly out of either of the themes, Eru’s or Melkor’s, but of their dissonance with regard one to another - evil things appeared in Arda, which did not descend from any direct plan or vision of Melkor." As such, evil things like Ungoliant and The Watcher in the Water were created out of discord and entered either Arda or the Void. This is just a theory though, and you have to take into account that Christopher Tolkien, not J.R.R. Tolkien spoke about the nameless things. But I like this theory the most out of the rest of them. Whos knows, theres probably lots more of these name things in the very depths of Arda or the void.
Ancalagon deserves #2 100%, the thing literally walks OVER mountains like it was damn legos. Please man. Ungoliant would go back to her filthy cave just by hearing the sounds of its legs landing on the ground...
@@vinz4066 Lol there is that guy who replied to me in the comments actually thinking Ungoliant would be victorious because she almost killed Melkor, what is this shit argument seriously.
So I would I need mention Ungoliant Ancalagon the black Sauron Glaurung Gothmog Durins bane (and other balrogs) The Great Cold Drake Beast of gondolin Winged dragons of War of Wrath Smaug Other dragons idk I can definitely see why the Nazgûl or shelob are here. I do find it extremely hard to say how powerfully the Nazgûl truly were at their peak. Carcharoth? (don’t remember the simarillion) Thuringwethil? (don’t remember enough) PS. How do we think about feanor and Saruman if you know. I mean. Kinda corrupt, not 100% evil.
I'm going to address that HUGE elephant in the room here, The Watcher in the Water. That's one of the evil creatures and its power is most definitely unknown but great.
Tolkien implied that the watcher is one of creatures formed in the Outer Darkness/ Void when Melkor introduced discord in the music of the ainur It is similar but lesser than Ungoliant in base nature ( I don't mean its a smaller spider ) It must be lesser than Ungoliant because Ungoliant was mostly conceived as an "Avatar of the outer Void " Anything else originating in the Void must be lesser
you can think of them as outer beings without a defined meaning/fate to the universe, it is theorised they came to when Melkor introdiced discord, but some also belive them to be from outside existance of the music of ainur, and the ungoliath and tom bombadil are some of the few nameless that gave themselvs names, and thus a purpose in the world at bouth extremes of the spectrum of life-void
The “Nameless things” weren't corrupt in the same way as fallen angels or demons (Melkor, Sauron, Balrogs, etc.) One theory takes Gandalf’s statement that the Nameless Things were older than Sauron more literally. The Nameless Things must have been created long back during the Ainulindalë (Great Music / Great Song) when Ilúvatar made the Ainur (Valar & Maiar) by manifesting his concepts as living beings. Upon their creation, when nothing else yet is made, Ilúvatar teaches the Ainur the art of 'Music', which becomes their life and work. However, Morgoth (aka Melkor) added Discord to the music to terrible effect. Christopher Tolkien (J.R.R. Tolkien’s son) actually wrote about this topic: “Out of the discords of the Music, not directly out of either of the themes, Eru’s or Melkor’s, but of their dissonance with regard one to another - evil things appeared in Arda, which did not descend from any direct plan or vision of Melkor." As such, evil things like Ungoliant and The Watcher in the Water were created out of discord and entered either Arda or the Void. This is just a theory though, and you have to take into account that Christopher Tolkien, not J.R.R. Tolkien spoke about the nameless things. But I like this theory the most out of the rest of them. Whos knows, theres probably lots more of these name things in the very depths of Arda or the void.
@@oliverform There was another channel of their calle "History of the ages" which was taken down or something like that because they started it with the name "History of Middle Earth" so they made a new clean channel without any Copyright Claims or somtehing like that , I really would love to konw the real reason tho ! This is just my speculation
@@oliverform Our old channel was History of the Ages. We had 320,000 subs but had some copyright issues. We decided it would be best to just start over :)
Guys, I love what you are doing here, it's got to be my favorite lotr channel! Is there a timeline on when that short film will be done, I'm excited about it and for yaul?
I nominate Feanor for this list. A) hugely powerful B) Tainted by Melkor's deception C) 100% responsible for the first Kinslaying D) Totally betrayed the non-Oath making Noldor, which led to many many of them dying on the land crossing to the East. Tolkien says he was not truly evil ( loose paraphrase) in the Simarillion before C) and D) in the Simarillion. I disagree with Tolkien, Feanor was evil AF.
Except that Feanor was NEVER corrupted by Melkor. Feanor never served Melkor or any of his goals and, moreover, was his worst enemy whom Melkor hated most. The only thing that made Feanor do what he did, was his own hubris. In any case, Feanor was nor embodiment of pure destruction (like Ungoliant) or enslaving power (like Melkor or Sauron) neither tool for them (like Saruman). He was only "elf" that made mistakes and these mistakes were adjusted to powers he possessed. With your definition u can call any of his sons evil (which is not true by any means) or Turin. Evil has a very strict definition in Tolkien world and Feanor is not evil and never was.
@@alcel24 if you just limit the definition of evil to Melkor, that is just odd to me. I read Tolkien with a modern lens, as much of his writing was influenced by the horrors he witnessed in the Great War and what he saw in the world. The Kinslaying was equal to fratricide/ethnic cleansing. That does not equal ' a mistake'.
@@colinmcdonald2499 No, I don't limit evil to Melkor. Moreover, I brought other examples of evil. And I have no idea what "modern lens" are. We need to stick to Tolkien definition of evilness and he is totally aligned with Christianity (he was catholic). And evilness is something beyond redemption. Melkor, Sauron they had their chances to come back. They didn't. Orcs, trolls lost their own will, they are bound to darkness and they are beyond redemption. Haradrim warriors are not evil because they can repent (remember Frodo looking at dead haradrim? Was he evil?). Moreover, if we go with your logic, why limit ourselves? Maglor did things far worse than Feanor. He took part in first Kinslaying and was one of initiators of 2 that followed. And yet, he saved Elrond and raised him as his son. Was he evil? If Feanor lived long enough to do the same, would u call him evil?
@@alcel24If you bring Catholicism into it: The Oath of Feanor is directly comparable to the vanity and avarice that led to Lucifer's downfall as an Archangel and his banishment to hell. You can actually directly compare this storyline to the Noldor's ( oathtakers) banishment from Valinor. You can get into the the argument ' But he was an elf... Not a Mayar... So you can't compare him to Lucifer... Melkor was Lucifer... Sauron was Lucifer. Blah blah blah. Feanor was the lessor in the trinity of the 3, he was not redemable, because he would never have repented... Those who followed his oath but never took one themselves ( such as Galadriel) were redeemable. Evil: Melkor>Sauron>Feanor Feanor was lesser evil. But still evil. I don't agree with the whole ' I have an elf figurine, no elf can be considered evil' logic. Personally I think Tolkien took biblical and Catholic texts as inspiration for his fiction. But I studied the pagan Old English translations he did in school ( such as _The Wanderer_) he clearly used pre-christian Anglo-Germanic-Nordic myths as well. He was not as deeply rooted in religion in his fiction as, say, C.S. Lewis was.
@@colinmcdonald2499 U forgot to answer the questions from the previous post... Was he evil? If Feanor lived long enough to do the same, would u call him evil?
You should make ep. 2! There should be Eöl, Maeglin, sons of Fëanor, Draugluin and Carcharoth. And even it's not canon, Agandaûr and Wulfrun. Don't matter most of them lived in Beleriand, ignore it🙃
The biggest question : was Sauron with the Ring more powerful stronger than Morgoth at his weakest at the End of the First Age? Without the Ring he was definitely weaker.
He most definitely was. Morgoth at the end of the first age wasn't a powerhouse he used to be shortly after creation of Arda. It was said in Silmarillion that Morgoth spent almost all of his power even before the first war with Valar, and he became even weaker since then, to the point when he needed to be rescued by balrogs, who are not even among the strongest of Maiar (Olorin in a very restricted form as Gandalf could kill one of them). Sauron on the other hand not only didn't get weaker since the First age, but became even stronger. It was said that at the beginning of the war of the ring he was at his peak and with the ring he would've become stronger than ever. Gandalf the white, who was much more powerful than when he slew balrog admitted that Sauron was still much stronger than him, plus even in the first age he was said to be the most powerful servant of Morgoth, stronger than all the Balrogs
I would argue that Morgoth’s powerful servant is Ancalagon The Black whom was driving the Host Of The Valar back led by Eönwë the most powerful Maia had Eärendil along with Thorondor and the rest of The Great Eagles of Manwë not come Ancalagon and the Winged Dragons would’ve bought unimaginable destruction to Middle Earth if left unchecked, I would also add Glaurung on here he caused a lot of destruction too, decimated the Noldor and turned the tides in favor of Morgoth many times, I would also say Gothmog High Captain of Angband Lord of Balrogs is also stronger with his resume having killed Fëanor possibly one of the most powerful if not the most powerful Elves in Middle Earth history and killed many big characters. Sauron was also defeated by Huan while all the aforementioned have had devastated Middle Earth overwhelmed the forces of good, Gothmog who has killed powerful and important characters leaving a significant impact so yeah Sauron prolly be the 4th strongest servant of Morgoth during The First Age I would say.
What-if video idea for you to do: What if Gandalf never fell at the Bridge of Khazad-dum and continued with the fellowship to Lothlorien and on forward?
The what-ifs I want is: What if each of the main characters take in the one ring fully. What do they become? Galadriel, Gandalf, Saruman, Boromir, Faramir, etc.
Sometimes I believe that Ungoliant might be even more powerful than Melkor (Morgoth), because she actually made him scream in terror, and his only escape was from the help of his Balrogs who heard it... but granted, he must have been a powerful manipulator and master of them, when there was not even one Balrog doubting their master's strength...
What do you mean sometimes? Ungoliant was undoubtedly stronger than Melkoth when she turned to kill him. Whether or not Mekong grew stronger, or Ungoliant weaker, remains to be seen. But Ungoliant was undoubtedly same tier yet slightly above Melkoth.
Strength is a fading thing in tolkeins works. Melkor was weaker because he invested his power in other things than personal might like the creation of servants and the corruption of the world. Ungoliant didn't pour her power into other things
The “Nameless things” weren't corrupt in the same way as fallen angels or demons (Melkor, Sauron, Balrogs, etc.) One theory takes Gandalf’s statement that the Nameless Things were older than Sauron more literally. The Nameless Things must have been created long back during the Ainulindalë (Great Music / Great Song) when Ilúvatar made the Ainur (Valar & Maiar) by manifesting his concepts as living beings. Upon their creation, when nothing else yet is made, Ilúvatar teaches the Ainur the art of 'Music', which becomes their life and work. However, Morgoth (aka Melkor) added Discord to the music to terrible effect. Christopher Tolkien (J.R.R. Tolkien’s son) actually wrote about this topic: “Out of the discords of the Music, not directly out of either of the themes, Eru’s or Melkor’s, but of their dissonance with regard one to another - evil things appeared in Arda, which did not descend from any direct plan or vision of Melkor." As such, evil things like Ungoliant and The Watcher in the Water were created out of discord and entered either Arda or the Void. This is just a theory though, and you have to take into account that Christopher Tolkien, not J.R.R. Tolkien spoke about the nameless things. But I like this theory the most out of the rest of them. Whos knows, theres probably lots more of these name things in the very depths of Arda or the void.
Huan passed from his wounds after slaying Carcharoth, and though he bested Sauron (as a werewolf) in single combat his comments during the struggle suggest that he is unable to slay Sauron (and well aware of it) so I don't think that's really a fair account of things
Martin, Huan was not able to beat Sauron in single combat. He needed the aid of Luthien's magical cloak to beat Sauron. *Huan fled in fear* when the wolf-Sauron came to face Huan upon the bridge of Tol-Sirion. The book said Sauron made himself "the mightiest one that ever walked on the earth" In the unfinished tales book, Tolkien says Even Sauron's weakest was more powerful than the average Maiar of Valinor such as Olorin(Gandalf's most powerful-true Maia form). Sauron defied the mighty lightning of Manwe(the most powerful Valar), he broke the power of Vala Ulmo within the Tol-Sirion. Sauron rules the weather, storms and the lightning. He raises the mountain sized waves (as he did in Numenor, in Tolkien's The Lost Road and the other writings book), his terror aura makes even the bravest elven warriors to flee (see: the siege of Minas Tirith in the first age, and his battle with Huan upon the bridge), he tortures his foes' mind by only staring at them from a distance (see: Pippin's Palantir case and Gandalf the white's challenge with the mind of Sauron), Sauron creates massive earthquakes and erupt the vulcanoes at will. Even Manwe's and Ulmo's power couldn't stop Sauron in his peak
I suspect Gothmog became Morgoth's Chief Lieutenant for a while there, after Sauron's humiliation at the hands of Luthien. Yes, I could see Morgoth being that petty.
Gothmog was not the "chief lieutenant". This title belongs to Sauron. Sauron is the Chief of the Lieutenants and all the captains including Gothmog and all other servants of Morgoth. "And there is Sauron. In the Silmarillion and Tales of the First Age Sauron was a being of Valinor perverted to the service of the Enemy and *becoming his chief captain and servant."* (Silmarillion, p 18) Secondly, Sauron never got humiliated by Luthien. In the tale of Beren&Luthien, When the wolf-Sauron came even Huan fled in fear then wolf-Sauron sprang upon Luthien and she couldn't handle with the dreadful presence of Sauron and swooned desperately. However a piece of her cloak made Sauron got stunned for a second. And at this point, Huan attacked wolf-Sauron by his throat and pinned him down after a little struggle. It was Huan who saved the day. Luthien literally sh*t herself when our future dark lord faced her lol
It seems than Gothmog was the chief of the "dark army" , while Sauron was the chief for the fortress of Angband, while Morgoth stayed in Utumno....So...they were on the same level, i think....After Morgoth last fall, Sauron was not "commanding" the remaining balrogs.....
I would mention the army of the Dead enlisted by Aragorn. I can't see anything else except Sauron standing up to them. Not even a Dragon. A Dragon could only turn tail and run (Fly).
Personally, I wonder how the Numenorians under Ar-Pharazon might have fared against Morgoth. They basically took down Sauron with the one ring at the height of his power with nary a problem. Seems like such a confrontation would be epic.
“As Gandalf the white is even more powerful then the witch king of the Nazgûl.” I’m sorry bro… in the books the Nazgûl were outright scared to fight Gandalf the GREY in groups less then 3. Only when all nine where assembled did they even dare to attack him from the shadows. even then they wouldn’t dare go near him, even in the night. But Gandalf the white?… I’d doubt even all nine of them as a group would dare to challenge him alone.
Yep. They could have just added 2-3 minutes to the video and included Morgoth. Any talk about the most evil beings in Middle Earth WITHOUT including Melkor is just dumb. Those guys need an advisor/editor. I get that Morgoth is obviously the most powerful, but Sauron is equally the second most powerful. Drop Sauron and make a video of non-Ainur worst guys....
I think they have done about him enough, and it starts being boring when you talk about the same people again and again, I'm growing tired of the nazgul aswell
When you say the Nazgul are Sauron's most terrible servants, are you sure you don't mean most rubbish servants? I'm re-reading Fellowship atm, they seem kind of intimidating but when you at what they actually acheive they are consistent failures! How many times when they were searching the Shire were they within a few hnudred metres of Frodo and his gang without being able to get them?!
They are the high level storm troopers of the lotr. Hard to kill and rarely successful. In a fight they are just likely to be fatally shot as they are to fatally shoot an important character. None of them kill a named character, and only the witch king actually gets killed by another character in the film if I remember correctly. He shouldn’t have been looking upon a woman!
The Witch King of Angmar is a great character to look up, by the time the Fellowship starts hes been leading the armies of mordor for ages, beaten armies of humans and elves, crushed human kingdoms, killed off lines of kings and nobles. Hes the reason Sauron was able to retreat to Mordor to build up strength to what he has when the Fellowship starts. As far as evil characters go they have done alot.
They're not really "strong" just more so they'll hunt you down forever since they cant die nor sleep. Tho the light must prevail so the bad guys kinda have to be dumb.
I think this would make for an interesting video, if Tolkien left behind information or lore for it... As it is mentioned in the video, the Balrogs were once Mayar, that Morgoth corrupted; does Tolkien mention names or backstories for each Mayar that was corrupted(only two of which are particularly notable?)
All we know about them is, they were not great Maiar spirits such as Sauron but lesser Maiar spirits(like Gandalf, Saruman and the other Istari) that Morgoth had corrupted. "Both outside Arda and in it, before the fall of Utumno. Melkor had corrupted many spirits -some great, as Sauron, or less so, as Balrogs." (The History of Middle Earth Vol 10: Morgoth’s Ring. Myths Transformed)
@@_semih_ Gandalf was not a lesser Maia. Or at least Tolkien seems to have been ambivalent about him - on the one hand describing him as the 'wisest of the Maiar' in the Silmarillion, and 'coeval and equal, doubtless, with Sauron' (Unfinished Tales), yet on the other saying that Sauron was of 'a far higher order' than the Istari in one of his personal letters.
@@dlevi67 Olorin aka Gandalf had been described as lesser Maiar than Sauron. In a footnote to Letter 183, Tolkien says that Sauron was: "of the same kind [i.e., a Maia] as Gandalf and Saruman, *but of a far higher order."* Even before Gandalf was sent to Middle-Earth as an emissary of the Valar (Istari) he was afraid of Sauron: “Manwë replied that he wished Olórin to go as the third messenger to Middle-earth... *But Olórin replied that he was too weak for such a task, and that he feared Sauron.* " [- page 393, Unfinished Tales.] Even ‘unbound’ he could not defeat Sauron: “I am Gandalf, Gandalf the White, *but Black is mightier still.”* [The Two Towers, LoTR Book 3, Ch 5, The White Rider] "Dangerous!" cried Gandalf. "And so am I, very dangerous: more dangerous than anything you will ever meet, *unless you are brought alive before the seat of the Dark Lord.* " [The Two Towers, LoTR Book 3, Ch 5, The White Rider] You need to remember that this Sauron is the third age Sauron.. So the dark lord was *extremely weakened* after the Akhalabeth by Eru illuvatar(the god in Tolkien's universe). And lost his ring after his battle against the last alliance. But still, Sauron's weakest is more powerful than Gandalf's true/unbound Maiar form. He frightened of Sauron too badly and never wanted to go to Middle Earth to don't face the Dark Lord. There are some Maiar that been described as the Maiar of Great power such as Eonwe, Sauron, Ilmare and Melian. Aannnd Olorin wasn't amongst them He was likely amongst the weakest in power (but of course he was the wisest of them but still very weak and less)
@@_semih_ He has been described as both an equal and as an inferior... that's the whole point I'm making. Equal does not mean identical in all aspects. If you don't like it, take it out with Tolkien and the Tolkien estate who had the audacity to publish information that is inconsistent with your thoughts (which are not necessarily correct, BTW - for example, the only 'canonical' effect of the Akallabeth on Sauron is his inability to take on a fair form; it is your inference that he was weakened).
@@dlevi67 Olorin and Sauron were equals in their beginnings they were both Maiar! But in the raw power and capabilities, Sauron is *far Superior* than Olorin. If you read the letter, Tolkien says they were same kind of beings (so Maia) and Sauron is far higher order than Gandalf and Saruman. Tolkien doesn't just say "higher order"..., he says *"FAR* higher order"! There is a very big difference between them in the hierarchy of might and power. That was my point
As bad as villains like Melkor and Sauron were, imagine what a nightmare Middle Earth would be if Melkor had been defeated by Ungoliant after destroying the Two Trees, leaving only she and her offspring to become the dominant force of evil plaguing the world.
The “Nameless things” weren't corrupt in the same way as fallen angels or demons (Melkor, Sauron, Balrogs, etc.) One theory takes Gandalf’s statement that the Nameless Things were older than Sauron more literally. The Nameless Things must have been created long back during the Ainulindalë (Great Music / Great Song) when Ilúvatar made the Ainur (Valar & Maiar) by manifesting his concepts as living beings. Upon their creation, when nothing else yet is made, Ilúvatar teaches the Ainur the art of 'Music', which becomes their life and work. However, Morgoth (aka Melkor) added Discord to the music to terrible effect. Christopher Tolkien (J.R.R. Tolkien’s son) actually wrote about this topic: “Out of the discords of the Music, not directly out of either of the themes, Eru’s or Melkor’s, but of their dissonance with regard one to another - evil things appeared in Arda, which did not descend from any direct plan or vision of Melkor." As such, evil things like Ungoliant and The Watcher in the Water were created out of discord and entered either Arda or the Void. This is just a theory though, and you have to take into account that Christopher Tolkien, not J.R.R. Tolkien spoke about the nameless things. But I like this theory the most out of the rest of them. Whos knows, theres probably lots more of these name things in the very depths of Arda or the void.
Ah ha! The slippery slope. You are correct. Both are classified as AINUR, which means the most powerful beings in Middle Earth. But Balrogs and dragons could be Maiar too, so..... They should have just included Melkor, then their breakdown would have made more sense. Excluding Valar and including Maiar is a head-scratcher.....
@@Enerdhil Very few Valar ever went west, so including one and not the other is silly. The Maiar had many adventures in the east and shaped it a great deal.
Who was the most gifted sorcerer that was human in JRR tolkien's legendarium that was not an Nazgul? It was said that men could be sorcerers but the only ones I know of are the wizards and the Nasgul of course. But they are not human or men anymore. I'm just curious what the peak level a man could actually reach
The Witch-King should have been separated from the other Nazgul in terms of how powerful (or more accurately, destructive to the forces of good (i.e. "the West") he was. The W-K almost single-handedly caused the downfall of Arnor; he was responsible for the breaking of the line of kings of Gondor; he conquered Minas Ithil and made it his own stronghold; he led his other dark brethren in pursuit of Frodo and the ring, almost succeeding in turning him into a fellow wraith; he used his sorcerous powers to break the supposedly impenetrable gates of Minith Tirith; he killed Theoden, the king of Rohan. No doubt, the W-K ranks in the upper echelon of all-time most powerful evil beings in the history of Middle-Earth.
Sauron came from the thought of Eru so he could only be erased by Eru. But Sauron (and other Maiar such as Saruman) could lose both the ability to take physical form and project power in Arda, and do no more than wander as powerless spirits.
Yes! You’ve left off the MOST EVIL! There is one hidden in the darkness behind the darkness… we know that the GREAT SPIDER UNGOLIANT had babies… who or what impregnated Ungoliant???
Perhaps Melkor is the father. After all, she produced all her offspring shortly after her breakup with Melkor. And Melkor could take on any form back then. Maybe that's how he secured their deal.
@@jdlech makes sense to me… my real question is had you ever heard the question before? Then there is that reality in our natural world that the black widow eats the father of her brood. In this case the father had allies… the Balrogs.
When discussing just how powerful Sauron was, people tend to forget that when he was Lieutenant of Angband while Melkor was imprisoned by the Valar, he kept the other Maiar, namely the Balrogs, and countless Orcs and Trolls and perhaps the yet unreleased dragons under control. Iirr he is the third most powerful Maia only after Ilmarë and Eönwë.
It’s an interesting thing to speculate on as she only continued to grow stronger as she fed. Had she been able to consume the Silmaril as well as the Trees, I think she would’ve certainly had the potential. But Ungoliant would’ve needed the Silmaril first, and I doubt she would’ve had the cunning or patience to do anything but take them by force then and there, as happened with a weakened Morgoth. In the end, Ungoliant probably lacked the strength of mind to best a full powered Morgoth.
@@peterjacob7116 But as for these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slaughter them before me.’” Luke 19:27 So your God shows his love by demanding the slaughter of nonbelievers? Cool story dude. Take your nonsense somewhere else
@@bradleyperry1735 that your evil god demands slaughter. That it's perfectly okay to kill humans, so long as your monstrous supernatural dictator deems them to be enemies.
@@hugo-pg5tv he didn't fight cuz he was too busy being humiliated by her. And, tbh, I would flee too if I had to face Melkor + 7 balrogs. The fact that she didn't insta die is a really impressive feat
2 things are wrong: -1. Nazgul dont weaken if Sauron is weak, proof is the Witch King being at his most powerful during his rule of Angmar when Sauron was at his weakest. -2. Ungoliant could never be more powerful then Melkor when he first came down to Arda, at that time he was 2nd to none exept Eru himself.
Tolkien literally says that the Nazgul get stronger and weaker with Sauron, word for word. And Ungoliant takes Melkor prisoner and he can’t save himself - he has to call on his Balrogs. Like what are you talking about? You’re just straight up wrong lol.
@@davidwilliamson8502 Tolkien also literally said that Balrogs arent Ainur...... Yet he later wrote them as Ainur, most of his work is unfinished and put together by Cristopher using his head cannon. What I said is factual though, Witch King was at his most powerful while he was the ruler of Angmar... when Sauron was at his weakest/defeated. Before it is described how Ungoliant *attacked*, not imprisoned Morgoth and he let out his scream it is said that she grew in power thanks to the power he gave her, jewles from Valinor she devoured and juices of the two trees she drank while he grew weaker because of the power that left him.... As in she was amped and he weakend. "And he descended upon Arda in power and majesty greater than any other of the Valar, as a mountain that wades in the sea and has its head above the clouds and is clad in ice and crowned with smoke and fire; and the light of the eyes of Melkor was like a flame that withers with heat and pierces with a deadly cold." At this time Morgoth was at his most powerful and capable of waging war against all the other Valar by himself, nothing compares to him at this time.
I believe there are some lost tales of her stew being able to damage the one ring if left in it for a few hours. Eowyn the shield maiden fair quick with a sworn and long flowing hair one glace upon her your heart would be shook but as hard as she might the poor girl could not cook. Her stew could turn an trolls stomach it was such the foul thing .It was also said it could melt the one ring.
2:10 i know the Mark of Khorne when i see one 😉 btw great video . P.S- For the people who are Wondering its of a different fictional Universe Warhammer 40k.
So here's a question that I'm not sure has been answered. Well, two questions. 1. What happened to Sauron after the Ring was destroyed? His is, after all, still immortal. Was his essence (his spirit, if you'd like) subject to the same fate as Morgoth? When Sauron did not have the Ring, he was able to slowly coalesce and strengthen his spirit until he could take a physical form, though the process was significantly slower and more tedious than with the Ring. Was his spirit still in Middle Earth, potentially to strengthen once more? 2. Elves are immortal... But they age. Kinda. At what point do Elves stop 'aging'? How long does that take? Do they have any degree of agency or control over that process, similar to how some Elves have chosen mortality?
I always thought that Sauron would be wondering demonic spirit that could only have influence on a single person at a time. So if he possesses a prince or king, he could have a profound effect on a country, especially an imperialist if one. As for Elves aging, Cirdan looks like a wizard by the end of the Third Age, but when did that happen? We don't know and never will know. I would guess that the appearance of age would reflect the level of "fading" for each elf. The more wornout and weighed down by existence they are, the older they appear. I think Celebrian would have looked like an old lady by the time she left Middle Earth.
As for the Maiar, when they died, they lost their physical form in Arda and so could not project power on it, so they wandered only as power less spirits. This was pointed out with Sauron in the fall of Numenor. He lost his original appearance and had he not already put most of his power in the ring prior to these events, would never have been able to take a physical form again. It is said that his spirit rose from the ruins of Numenor and fled to Mordor where he wielded his ring again. And even when taking a new physical form, he had to build it for himself and could not possess another living or even dead being
i was kind of expecting something about one or 2 of the more notable squid creatures like the one seen outside moria. but perhaps they are not really evil
The “Nameless things” weren't corrupt in the same way as fallen angels or demons (Melkor, Sauron, Balrogs, etc.) One theory takes Gandalf’s statement that the Nameless Things were older than Sauron more literally. The Nameless Things must have been created long back during the Ainulindalë (Great Music / Great Song) when Ilúvatar made the Ainur (Valar & Maiar) by manifesting his concepts as living beings. Upon their creation, when nothing else yet is made, Ilúvatar teaches the Ainur the art of 'Music', which becomes their life and work. However, Morgoth (aka Melkor) added Discord to the music to terrible effect. Christopher Tolkien (J.R.R. Tolkien’s son) actually wrote about this topic: “Out of the discords of the Music, not directly out of either of the themes, Eru’s or Melkor’s, but of their dissonance with regard one to another - evil things appeared in Arda, which did not descend from any direct plan or vision of Melkor." As such, evil things like Ungoliant and The Watcher in the Water were created out of discord and entered either Arda or the Void. This is just a theory though, and you have to take into account that Christopher Tolkien, not J.R.R. Tolkien spoke about the nameless things. But I like this theory the most out of the rest of them. Whos knows, theres probably lots more of these name things in the very depths of Arda or the void.
In the second age, he lost by the power of Eru Illuvatar. Tolkien noted that Sauron was extremely weakened after the downfall of Numenor by Eru so this is why Gil-Galad and Elendil managed to kill Sauron. But in fact Sauron defeated them despite his own weakened state (also he broke the siege of Barad-dur and pushed the army of the Last Alliance 30 miles(48 kilometers) back singlehandedly) In third age, he was defeated by Eru Illuvatar again. In one of his letters Tolkien said it was Eru who caused Gollum fell into the lava with the One Ring.
I think Fëanor and at least some of his sons belong on this list as well. They were corrupted by Morgoth as well, even if in a different manner than Sauron and the balrogs.
"Now please note that I have specifically said Middle Earth: east of Arda." **15 seconds later** "So anyways, let's start with Sauron..." **confusion**
And carcharoth? HE EATED A SILMARIL(a silmaril is a powerful gem, that in his interior has the power of a star) AND KEEPED IT IN HIS STOMACH DURING HOURS
Im just thinking here... U put Sauron and "the 9" on this list.... And say thery are on the list becurse so many feared him/them... But then allmost all "evil" things has a plase on this list, i dont get way so many see Sauron as a "big evil boss", when u look at the timeline.... He was just what was left after Melcor, and he was not big enough for the valar to realy do enything... Yes he help the elfs make the rings of power, Sauron DID NOT MAKE THE RINGS OF POWER! He only made the one ring! Yes he crouped men, big deal!! So to did almost all the evil things in Middel Earth, man are weak in ME and gets fu-ked left and right... But yes if u compare Sauron to an orc or man, then he is strong and powerful, put him next to an elf of the 1 age and he is more on pare... Put him next to enything in Melcors army and hes nothing.... If he was, way didten he fight or realy did enything before Melcor was gone? If he could turn men like so many people say, way didten he do that in the 1 age?? U see when u look closer at Sauron, hes more like a cry baby, that was left behinde then at evil lord :) and u mised complitly the biggest evil of them all ERU ILUVATRA, u know that crap-head ho made Melcor and turned him slowly agenst the other valar!! ( and to all of u that say hi didten! Just look at that Eru did with the flame of life, when Melcor asked for it, Eru send him in to the void! but when ulmo and the other valar wanted it, he gave it freely aka the drowfs, ents, eagles and many others forms of life, but for Melcor nothing!)
To make a correction to lore: The Spider (Shelob) ate Frodo and the RING OF POWER so nature has it now. Rest is fantasy on lore, wishful hope for rerun. Talk to lions and ants and such if you want to learn more. They run the show (ref. ua-cam.com/video/ijxk-fgcg7c/v-deo.html The Cure: Lullaby)
The one ring is the most powerful being. If you can call it a being. The ring was out for its own survival and no one could destroy it. Represent addiction and Sauron even needed it to the point his whole existence was centered on getting it back.
Don't forget than if Ungoliant was so powerfull,....it came only after she drank/sucked out the power from the two Trees.......That's why she was able to treat Morgoth, she couldn't do that before....
What's with you worrying about comments!? . Its obviously YT. Why don't you just make a list of power order. All the way to the most powerful. Total BS
As I understand it, all evil comes from Melkor (Morgoth). His discord in the first music of the ainur and the subsequent strife against the rest of the Valar (the destruction of the lamps and his first imprisonment) is the equivalent to the fall of Lucifer. Many Maia flocked to his banner and were thus corrupted into the terrible and powerful beings we come across later on down the ages, aka Ungoliant, The Watcher in the lake, the great worms in the Hobbit that give passage to the orc armies. I believe these to be some examples of the nameless things that Gandalf mentions. They fled to the deep hiding places of the world following Melkor's first defeat just as some of the Balrogs, Dragons, Sauron etc did in the aftermath of the War of Wrath! As for the most powerful evil being (Melkor aside), I'd put my money on Ancalagon the Black. He's basically some sort of ubersized Dragon that almost single handedly pushed back the Valar and the whole host of the West! Not even Sauron, Ungoliant or Gothmog could do that!
Yes, they indeed weren't corrupt in the same way as fallen angels or demons (Melkor, Sauron, Balrogs, etc.) One theory takes Gandalf’s statement that the Nameless Things were older than Sauron more literally. The Nameless Things must have been created long back during the Ainulindalë (Great Music / Great Song) when Ilúvatar made the Ainur (Valar & Maiar) by manifesting his concepts as living beings. Upon their creation, when nothing else yet is made, Ilúvatar teaches the Ainur the art of 'Music', which becomes their life and work. However, Morgoth (aka Melkor) added Discord to the music to terrible effect. Christopher Tolkien (J.R.R. Tolkien’s son) actually wrote about this topic: “Out of the discords of the Music, not directly out of either of the themes, Eru’s or Melkor’s, but of their dissonance with regard one to another - evil things appeared in Arda, which did not descend from any direct plan or vision of Melkor." As such, evil things like Ungoliant and The Watcher in the Water were created out of discord and entered either Arda or the Void. This is just a theory though, and you have to take into account that Christopher Tolkien, not J.R.R. Tolkien spoke about the nameless things. But I like this theory the most out of the rest of them. Whos knows, theres probably lots more of these name things in the very depths of Arda or the void.
sorry but you made a mistake. Gothmog, lieutenant of Minas Morgul was not an orc or Black Numenorean. it’s never mentioned what was his race. i personally believe that he was A black numenorean . i don’t think Sauron would thrust orc to lead his armies after Witch Kings demise.
Lobelia Sackville Baggins should be on this list...
Bruh!
😂
I agree stealing the good silverware is unvorgivable.
@@Gnollmund and buying houses below market value!
Lmao!!!
So that begs the question. How many hobbits would it take to kill ungolient (since, of course, hobbits are OP)?
Damn, the hairs on the tongue kept me from finishing this video lol
Is there any more information about wereworms?
You clearly left off Lobelia Sackville Baggins!
But more seriously
It seems that the Werewolves from the 1st ( second?) Age deserve a place here. 1 on 1 they seem much tougher than an individual Nazgul. And Shelob was only powerful relative to lone hobbits or goblins. She should not be in the same category as Ungolianth, as you mentioned, possibly the most powerful creature.
The watcher in the water also seems more powerful than Shelob ( or comparable),. The question is, was the watcher actually evil or not?
People keep saying that Gandalf killed Durin's Bane, but no one is saying that Durin's Bane killed Gandalf as well...
@Daniel Deering It was only due to Gandalf being friends with the admin that he was allowed to respawn
@@antondavidovic3996 with a hacked skin too 🙄
@@fettypaige4551 its like when you die in a game arfter ages of playing and you can finally spend all your points.
Gandalf had excess to the F5 key...lol
Lol very good point!
The one orc from the two towers that said “ looks like meats back on the menu boys!”
That my friend was a uruk hai, no orc
@@Kelvinpierre99 Uruk-Hai, Orc and Goblins are all of the same species but the names are just different. Uruk-Hai are Orcs, but they're more of an Orc that resembled the height of a man
@@ItJustDre well they dont look the same😅
So thats why i thought its different. Wouldnt know it sure, but if im wrong i would accept that
The ceiling beam at bag end is the most powerful of all of middle earth.
Gandalf lost to the ceiling beam. LOL
Fool of a took!
This doesn’t have enough lines 🤣 💀
But was the ceiling beam evil?
Honorable mention to the Nameless Things in the depths beneath Moria. We don't know enough about them to put them in the list, but if they're more ancient than Sauron, then it's safe to say they're not creatures to be trifled with.
I thought that was just the balrog
Sauron came into being when eru illuvatar created the Valar and maiar before time began.
I see in my head things like the watcher and hidious looking creatures. Even giant moles that are blind and look like ice age megafauna on earth. Super fast and can smell and hear food in solid rock. Creatures like Graboids lol.
Except maybe the Watcher we have no clue if they are good or bad or what side they would take if asked or just given the chance.
@@moisavictoria we do not even have examples of what any of them are anywhere. It was thought the the kraken like thing that attacked The fellowship was one of the nameless things. Worked it's way up in the water under Moria and in the lake from the bottom of Arda.
What about the nameless things in the depths of Moria, Gandalf said he saw them during his fighting Durin's Bane but refused to speak of them cuz they were so vile and evil
I guess if the Nameless Things had names, the guys would have included them.
We know little about them. The Watcher in the Water is the most famous or infamous of these. They were 'natural' creatures and not corruptions or imbued with supernatural power such as the dragons or balrogs. Their origins is shrouded in mystery. Tolkien referring to them as "evil" is also a bit of a stretch. Were they fully sentient or mostly guided by instinctual impulses? If the latter then they weren't 'evil' in its purest definition. It makes total sense they weren't included in this video.
@@jamesaron1967 Exactly! The nameless ones were unplanned creations, that were not meant to be. They had no power, but existed as living beings, that had no place in the order of Middle Earth, so they are effectively just outcasts, that were never insiders.
@@alanguages How do you know that?
@@sachsenschlachter6401 Look up a video called: What are the nameless things of Moria?
Hear me out: a dark souls game set in the first age of middle earth. You traversing the towering halls of angband full of cyclopean architecture, going up against godlike beings like gothmog and ungoliant. And morgoth as the obvious final boss
As what character?
@@ytbmax9371 not sure theres any lore fitting character, since the game would have you beating all these being when this obviously doesnt happen in the actual lore
You mean ungoliant is the last boss? Because ungoliant is morgoths daddy
Honestly, i think you've just predicted the next lotr game. A dark souls like game set in middle earth would be awesome. I hate it because i just dont have the patience but id watch a play through. Imagine all the potential bosses, like itd be awesome
@@sakatashi177 nah rpg is better otherwise you have too tryhard
I think Carcharoth, the greatest werewolf to ever live, probably deserves an honorable mention as well. He managed to kill Huan the wolfhound, who had previously defeated Sauron in a 1v1.
I've never heard of him but SHEEEESH, your right there, an honourable mention would be appropriate
the guy from dragon ball Z ?
@Melkor OK how have I never heard of him then:(
@Melkor OK how have I never heard of him then:(
Yep. Agreed.
For me Ungoliant was the exact opposite of Bombadil. One created by the dark the other by light. Both older than all but the Valar
Yes I think that they were accidental creations of the music of the Ainur, as well as the "nameless things" that Gandalf saw in the depths of Moria.
Ungoliant after consuming all the light of the two trees, a.k.a. mega- Ungoliant musta been pretty darn powerful, as it managed to overwhelm the most powerful Valar (Melkor) in 1v1 fight
@@timomueller8504 well imagine a spider with most of all evil and 6x it you get ungoliant. (Side tangent)Which means that Shelob has a pretty big capacity for evil doing and yet Shelob might just be the nicest and sweetest of all ungoliants children as shelob doesn't really do much between the ending years of the 1st age and the beginning of the fourth age. I'm pretty sure ungoliant and Tom bombadil named themselves thus giving themselves purpose unlike the nameless things that most likely don't want or need names they just are and thus purposeless.
@@timomueller8504 the most powerful valar isn't Morgoth but tulkas
@@cruisingwithoutsail6585 Not really, Tulkas is the best fighter but Melkor is much more powerfull. Effectively Melkor almost destroyed the world twice and he was the only one who could stand against Idea of Eru. But when Melkor turned into the dark lord, he was actually quite weak. Silmarils were hurting him, he lost most of his powers when he invest it inot Ungoliath and after that into other creations. He effectively was a shade of his former self when he was met by Host of Valar. His story is quite sad, because he fail and he lsot everything and even his former status, powers and might.
"we're going to talk about balrogs"
*showing pictures of bloodthirsters
I mean.... Technically you're not entirely wrong...
Yes they look alike but its Warhammer 40k not Tolkien
@@vmaldia bloodthirsters were in Fantasy/AoS as well. I'm well aware where they come from, i was just pointing it out as being funny
Blood for the... uhh the uhhhhhh um
@@dipmaster6942 the guy? right? that one, y'know?
@@Frankenllama s- Sour Ron? Who's that? What does he need blood for
If those damn Sackville Baggins are not on the list with milk souring face Lobelia as their main chieftain,then its not a list worth making. Even Anchalagon seems nicer.
You cant kill them because they Steal your weapons
You cant Put them in prison because they Steal the prison.
You're clearly a man of culture
Didn't Lobelia resist Saurons forces when they invaded the Shire and left everything in her will to Frodo to help homeless Hobbits?
Wasn't the Sackville Baggins spies for Saruman?
The fact that *Morgoth* was to Ungoliant basically what Sam was to Shelob is downright terrifying.
Morgoth gave power to ungoliant before their attempted robbery and was Definitely stronger than her till then, after the robbery, Ungoliant absorbed a lot more power from the trees and even from the silmarils and had the power of Morgoth as well
At this point and beyond during their interaction, she was stronger than ( the weakened) Morgoth
Hardly a sam to shelob parallel
@@Phoenix-King-ozai Also, Ungoliant would never be able to kill Melkor really, only destroy his physical form. Melkor is an immortal spirit so that parallel is way off.
Yet Sam forced Shelob to retreat where as Morgoth need the help of the Balrogs to force Ungoliant to flee ;)
@@Arkantosi indeed
Ungoliant only became temporarily stronger than morgoth
I too don't think she could have killed him
Even his physical form
@@magecraft2 She temporarily overpowered him and caused him pain because of her temporary but enormous power boost and morgoth weakening himself
The balrogs heard his cry of pain and came to drive her away
We don't know for certain that she could have killed him or even caused him mortal harm, even to his body
Even sometime after this incident, Morgoth was "Yet, the mightiest of all things living, in Arda"
Yet because he weakened himself so much
Sam only won because of galadriel's phial
Something so rare and powerful is
Hardly his own power, it was a one time lucky fluke
Very impressive, but hardly comparable to melkor and ungoliant,
Ungoliant won a one time lucky fluke
So it was almost like its reversed
@The Broken Sword Personally I think if you include Sauron, Saruman and Ungloiant then you have to include Morgoth. Afterall none of them originated from Middle Earth which seems to be your criterion for excluding Morgoth. But that's just my opinion, and I think your content is fantastic overall.
Same with balrogs
The “Nameless things” weren't corrupt in the same way as fallen angels or demons (Melkor, Sauron, Balrogs, etc.) One theory takes Gandalf’s statement that the Nameless Things were older than Sauron more literally. The Nameless Things must have been created long back during the Ainulindalë (Great Music / Great Song) when Ilúvatar made the Ainur (Valar & Maiar) by manifesting his concepts as living beings. Upon their creation, when nothing else yet is made, Ilúvatar teaches the Ainur the art of 'Music', which becomes their life and work. However, Morgoth (aka Melkor) added Discord to the music to terrible effect. Christopher Tolkien (J.R.R. Tolkien’s son) actually wrote about this topic: “Out of the discords of the Music, not directly out of either of the themes, Eru’s or Melkor’s, but of their dissonance with regard one to another - evil things appeared in Arda, which did not descend from any direct plan or vision of Melkor." As such, evil things like Ungoliant and The Watcher in the Water were created out of discord and entered either Arda or the Void. This is just a theory though, and you have to take into account that Christopher Tolkien, not J.R.R. Tolkien spoke about the nameless things. But I like this theory the most out of the rest of them. Whos knows, theres probably lots more of these name things in the very depths of Arda or the void.
Ungoliant hands down. She nearly killed Morgoth, before a literal army of like 10,000 Balrogs had to show up to hold her back.
Nah, Morgoth is more powerful
10,000 balrogs ?
Where did you get that from ?
There are at most 7 maiar balrogs and the rest were lesser spirits with some fire powers killable by lower Elves and even armed Men
Ungoliant only overpowered Morgoth and made him scream, because she absorbed the power of two trees and also Morgoth gave her power right before the theft and was definitely stronger till then
She was also his servant until "She became a mistress of her own lust"
We don't know if she could ever have seriously hurt Morgoth or how long the power boost would have lasted
Morgoth was still more powerful
She might have been physically stronger temporarily
Kind of like how tulkas beat Morgoth despite him being more powerful than all of the Valar combined
@@Phoenix-King-ozai It was an exaggeration, but what is more too my point is the combined power of all the Balrogs, a full army, and Melkor is what it took to defeat her, and had she been able to continue, her hunger would have been unstoppable. Melkor knew this, and it was his fear that made him scream.
@@Phoenix-King-ozai With her having devoured the trees and some of his power she was stronger at that point in time, but even with his full power and her with just the power from the trees, they were even at the least.
@@Phoenix-King-ozai Tom Bombadiil though... now he may be waaaaaaay stronger than anyone. But we don't really know.
Definitely ungoliant. She devoured the twin trees of ezellohar and was powerful enough the make melkor sweat in knowing that he made a bad deal in allying with her, since her appetite is literally insatiable. He broke his word, giving with one hand and witholding the other, when he was supposed to give with both hands, hiding the silmarils which she desired to eat more than anything. Melkor narrowly escaped from that encounter. That alone should tell you of her great power and evil. A match for morgoth himself.
I think The Nameless Things deserve a spot on this list (the kraken-like beast guarding the door to Moria is one of them)
The “Nameless things” weren't corrupt in the same way as fallen angels or demons (Melkor, Sauron, Balrogs, etc.) One theory takes Gandalf’s statement that the Nameless Things were older than Sauron more literally. The Nameless Things must have been created long back during the Ainulindalë (Great Music / Great Song) when Ilúvatar made the Ainur (Valar & Maiar) by manifesting his concepts as living beings. Upon their creation, when nothing else yet is made, Ilúvatar teaches the Ainur the art of 'Music', which becomes their life and work. However, Morgoth (aka Melkor) added Discord to the music to terrible effect. Christopher Tolkien (J.R.R. Tolkien’s son) actually wrote about this topic: “Out of the discords of the Music, not directly out of either of the themes, Eru’s or Melkor’s, but of their dissonance with regard one to another - evil things appeared in Arda, which did not descend from any direct plan or vision of Melkor." As such, evil things like Ungoliant and The Watcher in the Water were created out of discord and entered either Arda or the Void. This is just a theory though, and you have to take into account that Christopher Tolkien, not J.R.R. Tolkien spoke about the nameless things. But I like this theory the most out of the rest of them. Whos knows, theres probably lots more of these name things in the very depths of Arda or the void.
Gonna take a guess before I watch
1. Morgoth
2. Ungoliant? (Maybe #1 after she consumed the trees?)
3. Sauron
4. Gothmog
Ancalagon deserves #2 100%, the thing literally walks OVER mountains like it was damn legos. Please man.
Ungoliant would go back to her filthy cave just by hearing the sounds of its legs landing on the ground...
@@antoneverbright
Also she seems to dislike fire which can be considered a Problem when facing a dragon
@@vinz4066 Lol there is that guy who replied to me in the comments actually thinking Ungoliant would be victorious because she almost killed Melkor, what is this shit argument seriously.
So I would I need mention
Ungoliant
Ancalagon the black
Sauron
Glaurung
Gothmog
Durins bane (and other balrogs)
The Great Cold Drake
Beast of gondolin
Winged dragons of War of Wrath
Smaug
Other dragons idk
I can definitely see why the Nazgûl or shelob are here. I do find it extremely hard to say how powerfully the Nazgûl truly were at their peak.
Carcharoth? (don’t remember the simarillion)
Thuringwethil? (don’t remember enough)
PS. How do we think about feanor and Saruman if you know. I mean. Kinda corrupt, not 100% evil.
First image for Balrogs isn't a Balrog. It's from Warhammer, a daemon known as a Bloodthirster. Have many similarities
I'm going to address that HUGE elephant in the room here, The Watcher in the Water. That's one of the evil creatures and its power is most definitely unknown but great.
Tolkien implied that the watcher is one of creatures formed in the Outer Darkness/ Void when Melkor introduced discord in the music of the ainur
It is similar but lesser than Ungoliant in base nature
( I don't mean its a smaller spider )
It must be lesser than Ungoliant because Ungoliant was mostly conceived as an "Avatar of the outer Void "
Anything else originating in the Void must be lesser
you can think of them as outer beings without a defined meaning/fate to the universe, it is theorised they came to when Melkor introdiced discord, but some also belive them to be from outside existance of the music of ainur, and the ungoliath and tom bombadil are some of the few nameless that gave themselvs names, and thus a purpose in the world at bouth extremes of the spectrum of life-void
The “Nameless things” weren't corrupt in the same way as fallen angels or demons (Melkor, Sauron, Balrogs, etc.) One theory takes Gandalf’s statement that the Nameless Things were older than Sauron more literally. The Nameless Things must have been created long back during the Ainulindalë (Great Music / Great Song) when Ilúvatar made the Ainur (Valar & Maiar) by manifesting his concepts as living beings. Upon their creation, when nothing else yet is made, Ilúvatar teaches the Ainur the art of 'Music', which becomes their life and work. However, Morgoth (aka Melkor) added Discord to the music to terrible effect. Christopher Tolkien (J.R.R. Tolkien’s son) actually wrote about this topic: “Out of the discords of the Music, not directly out of either of the themes, Eru’s or Melkor’s, but of their dissonance with regard one to another - evil things appeared in Arda, which did not descend from any direct plan or vision of Melkor." As such, evil things like Ungoliant and The Watcher in the Water were created out of discord and entered either Arda or the Void. This is just a theory though, and you have to take into account that Christopher Tolkien, not J.R.R. Tolkien spoke about the nameless things. But I like this theory the most out of the rest of them. Whos knows, theres probably lots more of these name things in the very depths of Arda or the void.
Geez! How did the 'good' forces manage to fight all them off? Seems like the bad guys always get the top tier fighters lol
Why do I always find this channel's videos quickly, but on the old channel it took me hours!
Probably because we had hundreds of videos on the old channel. And about 20 on this one lol
@@TheBrokenSword can someone explain to me what is meant by "old channel"
@@oliverform There was another channel of their calle "History of the ages" which was taken down or something like that because they started it with the name "History of Middle Earth" so they made a new clean channel without any Copyright Claims or somtehing like that , I really would love to konw the real reason tho ! This is just my speculation
@@oliverform Our old channel was History of the Ages. We had 320,000 subs but had some copyright issues. We decided it would be best to just start over :)
Guys, I love what you are doing here, it's got to be my favorite lotr channel! Is there a timeline on when that short film will be done, I'm excited about it and for yaul?
I nominate Feanor for this list. A) hugely powerful B) Tainted by Melkor's deception
C) 100% responsible for the first Kinslaying
D) Totally betrayed the non-Oath making Noldor, which led to many many of them dying on the land crossing to the East.
Tolkien says he was not truly evil ( loose paraphrase) in the Simarillion before C) and D) in the Simarillion.
I disagree with Tolkien, Feanor was evil AF.
Except that Feanor was NEVER corrupted by Melkor. Feanor never served Melkor or any of his goals and, moreover, was his worst enemy whom Melkor hated most. The only thing that made Feanor do what he did, was his own hubris. In any case, Feanor was nor embodiment of pure destruction (like Ungoliant) or enslaving power (like Melkor or Sauron) neither tool for them (like Saruman). He was only "elf" that made mistakes and these mistakes were adjusted to powers he possessed. With your definition u can call any of his sons evil (which is not true by any means) or Turin. Evil has a very strict definition in Tolkien world and Feanor is not evil and never was.
@@alcel24 if you just limit the definition of evil to Melkor, that is just odd to me. I read Tolkien with a modern lens, as much of his writing was influenced by the horrors he witnessed in the Great War and what he saw in the world. The Kinslaying was equal to fratricide/ethnic cleansing. That does not equal ' a mistake'.
@@colinmcdonald2499 No, I don't limit evil to Melkor. Moreover, I brought other examples of evil. And I have no idea what "modern lens" are. We need to stick to Tolkien definition of evilness and he is totally aligned with Christianity (he was catholic). And evilness is something beyond redemption. Melkor, Sauron they had their chances to come back. They didn't. Orcs, trolls lost their own will, they are bound to darkness and they are beyond redemption. Haradrim warriors are not evil because they can repent (remember Frodo looking at dead haradrim? Was he evil?). Moreover, if we go with your logic, why limit ourselves? Maglor did things far worse than Feanor. He took part in first Kinslaying and was one of initiators of 2 that followed. And yet, he saved Elrond and raised him as his son. Was he evil? If Feanor lived long enough to do the same, would u call him evil?
@@alcel24If you bring Catholicism into it: The Oath of Feanor is directly comparable to the vanity and avarice that led to Lucifer's downfall as an Archangel and his banishment to hell. You can actually directly compare this storyline to the Noldor's ( oathtakers) banishment from Valinor. You can get into the the argument ' But he was an elf... Not a Mayar... So you can't compare him to Lucifer... Melkor was Lucifer... Sauron was Lucifer. Blah blah blah. Feanor was the lessor in the trinity of the 3, he was not redemable, because he would never have repented... Those who followed his oath but never took one themselves ( such as Galadriel) were redeemable.
Evil: Melkor>Sauron>Feanor
Feanor was lesser evil. But still evil.
I don't agree with the whole ' I have an elf figurine, no elf can be considered evil' logic.
Personally I think Tolkien took biblical and Catholic texts as inspiration for his fiction. But I studied the pagan Old English translations he did in school ( such as _The Wanderer_) he clearly used pre-christian Anglo-Germanic-Nordic myths as well. He was not as deeply rooted in religion in his fiction as, say, C.S. Lewis was.
@@colinmcdonald2499 U forgot to answer the questions from the previous post... Was he evil? If Feanor lived long enough to do the same, would u call him evil?
I'd have included the werewolves. Particular mentions of Draugluin and Carcharoth.
I still feel you should have put them in a list. Argument is engagement abd it’s part of the fun
You should make ep. 2!
There should be Eöl, Maeglin, sons of Fëanor, Draugluin and Carcharoth. And even it's not canon, Agandaûr and Wulfrun. Don't matter most of them lived in Beleriand, ignore it🙃
Not Tevildo? lol
@@Enerdhil well😏
@@JohnSmith-bt3xh
🐱🐱🐱🐱🐱🐈🐈🐈🐈🐈..Please.....
@@Enerdhil fine👍 Tevildo also
@@JohnSmith-bt3xh
Thank you. 🐱
The biggest question : was Sauron with the Ring more powerful stronger than Morgoth at his weakest at the End of the First Age? Without the Ring he was definitely weaker.
He most definitely was. Morgoth at the end of the first age wasn't a powerhouse he used to be shortly after creation of Arda. It was said in Silmarillion that Morgoth spent almost all of his power even before the first war with Valar, and he became even weaker since then, to the point when he needed to be rescued by balrogs, who are not even among the strongest of Maiar (Olorin in a very restricted form as Gandalf could kill one of them). Sauron on the other hand not only didn't get weaker since the First age, but became even stronger. It was said that at the beginning of the war of the ring he was at his peak and with the ring he would've become stronger than ever. Gandalf the white, who was much more powerful than when he slew balrog admitted that Sauron was still much stronger than him, plus even in the first age he was said to be the most powerful servant of Morgoth, stronger than all the Balrogs
Most likely equal to Morgoth
Sauron at his peak is confirmed stronger than Morgoth at his weakest. Goes to show how strong Morgoth is/was.
@@dravendfr it is writen in Morgoth Ring.
I would argue that Morgoth’s powerful servant is Ancalagon The Black whom was driving the Host Of The Valar back led by Eönwë the most powerful Maia had Eärendil along with Thorondor and the rest of The Great Eagles of Manwë not come Ancalagon and the Winged Dragons would’ve bought unimaginable destruction to Middle Earth if left unchecked, I would also add Glaurung on here he caused a lot of destruction too, decimated the Noldor and turned the tides in favor of Morgoth many times, I would also say Gothmog High Captain of Angband Lord of Balrogs is also stronger with his resume having killed Fëanor possibly one of the most powerful if not the most powerful Elves in Middle Earth history and killed many big characters. Sauron was also defeated by Huan while all the aforementioned have had devastated Middle Earth overwhelmed the forces of good, Gothmog who has killed powerful and important characters leaving a significant impact so yeah Sauron prolly be the 4th strongest servant of Morgoth during The First Age I would say.
KAREN should be included since the first age to present.
I dont know whether Ungoliant should count but she almost killed Melkor without his Balrogs has to be her
Tom Bombadil is the most powerful in my opinion
Or bill the pony
Do you consider him or Bill 'evil'?
@@matthew8322 yeah bills defo the strongest lol
But was he evil?
@@loganestrada2311 Definitely isn't, closer to being good/neutral
What-if video idea for you to do:
What if Gandalf never fell at the Bridge of Khazad-dum and continued with the fellowship to Lothlorien and on forward?
The what-ifs I want is:
What if each of the main characters take in the one ring fully. What do they become?
Galadriel, Gandalf, Saruman, Boromir, Faramir, etc.
Shelob's dark power is so strong yet mysterious, i think that's why Sauron himself wouldn't step into her domain when it's unnecessary
well, she is a child of ungoliath, do there are definatly some bad memories there xD
Sometimes I believe that Ungoliant might be even more powerful than Melkor (Morgoth), because she actually made him scream in terror, and his only escape was from the help of his Balrogs who heard it... but granted, he must have been a powerful manipulator and master of them, when there was not even one Balrog doubting their master's strength...
What do you mean sometimes? Ungoliant was undoubtedly stronger than Melkoth when she turned to kill him. Whether or not Mekong grew stronger, or Ungoliant weaker, remains to be seen. But Ungoliant was undoubtedly same tier yet slightly above Melkoth.
I think she was like the titans that preceeded the gods in Greek lore. More primal so less crafty but certainly stronger.
Strength is a fading thing in tolkeins works. Melkor was weaker because he invested his power in other things than personal might like the creation of servants and the corruption of the world. Ungoliant didn't pour her power into other things
It's specifically said Melkor was weakened there so that's something
So if the wraiths couldn't be seen by most without armour. They shoulda just walked into the shire naked. Woulda got the ring then 🤣.
Ungoliant is fascinating!! I love videos of her. Where can I read more about her??
Only references I know of are in the Silmarillion. Probably some fanboy stuff out there too
The “Nameless things” weren't corrupt in the same way as fallen angels or demons (Melkor, Sauron, Balrogs, etc.) One theory takes Gandalf’s statement that the Nameless Things were older than Sauron more literally. The Nameless Things must have been created long back during the Ainulindalë (Great Music / Great Song) when Ilúvatar made the Ainur (Valar & Maiar) by manifesting his concepts as living beings. Upon their creation, when nothing else yet is made, Ilúvatar teaches the Ainur the art of 'Music', which becomes their life and work. However, Morgoth (aka Melkor) added Discord to the music to terrible effect. Christopher Tolkien (J.R.R. Tolkien’s son) actually wrote about this topic: “Out of the discords of the Music, not directly out of either of the themes, Eru’s or Melkor’s, but of their dissonance with regard one to another - evil things appeared in Arda, which did not descend from any direct plan or vision of Melkor." As such, evil things like Ungoliant and The Watcher in the Water were created out of discord and entered either Arda or the Void. This is just a theory though, and you have to take into account that Christopher Tolkien, not J.R.R. Tolkien spoke about the nameless things. But I like this theory the most out of the rest of them. Whos knows, theres probably lots more of these name things in the very depths of Arda or the void.
I'd love to see a movie about the first age .
I'd only add Carcharoth, since sauron is on the list, Huan beat sauron and was then killed by Carcharoth
Juan 👹
Huan passed from his wounds after slaying Carcharoth, and though he bested Sauron (as a werewolf) in single combat his comments during the struggle suggest that he is unable to slay Sauron (and well aware of it) so I don't think that's really a fair account of things
For sure Carcharoth.
Martin,
Huan was not able to beat Sauron in single combat. He needed the aid of Luthien's magical cloak to beat Sauron. *Huan fled in fear* when the wolf-Sauron came to face Huan upon the bridge of Tol-Sirion. The book said Sauron made himself "the mightiest one that ever walked on the earth"
In the unfinished tales book, Tolkien says Even Sauron's weakest was more powerful than the average Maiar of Valinor such as Olorin(Gandalf's most powerful-true Maia form). Sauron defied the mighty lightning of Manwe(the most powerful Valar), he broke the power of Vala Ulmo within the Tol-Sirion. Sauron rules the weather, storms and the lightning. He raises the mountain sized waves (as he did in Numenor, in Tolkien's The Lost Road and the other writings book), his terror aura makes even the bravest elven warriors to flee (see: the siege of Minas Tirith in the first age, and his battle with Huan upon the bridge), he tortures his foes' mind by only staring at them from a distance (see: Pippin's Palantir case and Gandalf the white's challenge with the mind of Sauron), Sauron creates massive earthquakes and erupt the vulcanoes at will. Even Manwe's and Ulmo's power couldn't stop Sauron in his peak
@@_semih_ this is unfinished tales nonsense lolz. Silmarillion is real cannon to me…
I suspect Gothmog became Morgoth's Chief Lieutenant for a while there, after Sauron's humiliation at the hands of Luthien. Yes, I could see Morgoth being that petty.
Gothmog was not the "chief lieutenant". This title belongs to Sauron. Sauron is the Chief of the Lieutenants and all the captains including Gothmog and all other servants of Morgoth.
"And there is Sauron. In the Silmarillion
and Tales of the First Age Sauron was a being of Valinor perverted to the service
of the Enemy and *becoming his chief captain and servant."*
(Silmarillion, p 18)
Secondly, Sauron never got humiliated by Luthien. In the tale of Beren&Luthien, When the wolf-Sauron came even Huan fled in fear then wolf-Sauron sprang upon Luthien and she couldn't handle with the dreadful presence of Sauron and swooned desperately. However a piece of her cloak made Sauron got stunned for a second. And at this point, Huan attacked wolf-Sauron by his throat and pinned him down after a little struggle. It was Huan who saved the day. Luthien literally sh*t herself when our future dark lord faced her lol
It seems than Gothmog was the chief of the "dark army" , while Sauron was the chief for the fortress of Angband, while Morgoth stayed in Utumno....So...they were on the same level, i think....After Morgoth last fall, Sauron was not "commanding" the remaining balrogs.....
@@vitalguillin1177 no, they weren't same. Tolkien never said such a thing. Gothmog was inferior to Sauron
@@vitalguillin1177 also the Balrogs(including Gothmog) had been described as the lesser Maiar spirits while Sauron was a high Maiar spirit
@@_semih_ in Morgoth ring is reported that Sauron become more higher than Morgoth in the last period of first age.
I would mention the army of the Dead enlisted by Aragorn. I can't see anything else except Sauron standing up to them. Not even a Dragon. A Dragon could only turn tail and run (Fly).
Personally, I wonder how the Numenorians under Ar-Pharazon might have fared against Morgoth. They basically took down Sauron with the one ring at the height of his power with nary a problem. Seems like such a confrontation would be epic.
Morgoth would slaughter them all lol.
@@azie8884 That's debatable.
@@jasonseipler2665 Dragons, lol
Sauron let himself be caught.
@@pedrovargas2181 After his forces wet themselves and split
“As Gandalf the white is even more powerful then the witch king of the Nazgûl.” I’m sorry bro… in the books the Nazgûl were outright scared to fight Gandalf the GREY in groups less then 3. Only when all nine where assembled did they even dare to attack him from the shadows. even then they wouldn’t dare go near him, even in the night. But Gandalf the white?… I’d doubt even all nine of them as a group would dare to challenge him alone.
Than. Not then.
2:11 what a chaotic image... you can feel the balrogs call for blood and skulls ;-)
Nice video :D Ungoliant is one of the most fascinating characters in the whole lore imo.
I think so too!
The number one are always the Sacksville bagginses they are worst than Morgoth
I don't really get why you exclude Melkor but not Sauron. Both are Ainur, albeit on different power levels. 🤷♂️ Same for the Balrogs et al.
Yep. They could have just added 2-3 minutes to the video and included Morgoth. Any talk about the most evil beings in Middle Earth WITHOUT including Melkor is just dumb. Those guys need an advisor/editor. I get that Morgoth is obviously the most powerful, but Sauron is equally the second most powerful. Drop Sauron and make a video of non-Ainur worst guys....
I think they have done about him enough, and it starts being boring when you talk about the same people again and again, I'm growing tired of the nazgul aswell
@@KeijspermeisterBecause Sauron hasn't been talked about over and over?
@@sjakierulez yeah but It would have not made sense at all to Eclude Sauron, while there was some kind of reason to exclude morgoth
When you say the Nazgul are Sauron's most terrible servants, are you sure you don't mean most rubbish servants?
I'm re-reading Fellowship atm, they seem kind of intimidating but when you at what they actually acheive they are consistent failures!
How many times when they were searching the Shire were they within a few hnudred metres of Frodo and his gang without being able to get them?!
They are the high level storm troopers of the lotr. Hard to kill and rarely successful. In a fight they are just likely to be fatally shot as they are to fatally shoot an important character. None of them kill a named character, and only the witch king actually gets killed by another character in the film if I remember correctly. He shouldn’t have been looking upon a woman!
The Witch King of Angmar is a great character to look up, by the time the Fellowship starts hes been leading the armies of mordor for ages, beaten armies of humans and elves, crushed human kingdoms, killed off lines of kings and nobles. Hes the reason Sauron was able to retreat to Mordor to build up strength to what he has when the Fellowship starts. As far as evil characters go they have done alot.
They're not really "strong" just more so they'll hunt you down forever since they cant die nor sleep. Tho the light must prevail so the bad guys kinda have to be dumb.
I think this would make for an interesting video, if Tolkien left behind information or lore for it...
As it is mentioned in the video, the Balrogs were once Mayar, that Morgoth corrupted; does Tolkien mention names or backstories for each Mayar that was corrupted(only two of which are particularly notable?)
All we know about them is, they were not great Maiar spirits such as Sauron but lesser Maiar spirits(like Gandalf, Saruman and the other Istari) that Morgoth had corrupted.
"Both outside Arda and in it, before the fall of Utumno. Melkor had corrupted many spirits -some great, as Sauron, or less so, as Balrogs."
(The History of Middle Earth Vol 10: Morgoth’s Ring. Myths Transformed)
@@_semih_ Gandalf was not a lesser Maia. Or at least Tolkien seems to have been ambivalent about him - on the one hand describing him as the 'wisest of the Maiar' in the Silmarillion, and 'coeval and equal, doubtless, with Sauron' (Unfinished Tales), yet on the other saying that Sauron was of 'a far higher order' than the Istari in one of his personal letters.
@@dlevi67 Olorin aka Gandalf had been described as lesser Maiar than Sauron. In a footnote to Letter 183, Tolkien says that Sauron was: "of the same kind [i.e., a Maia] as Gandalf and Saruman, *but of a far higher order."*
Even before Gandalf was sent to Middle-Earth as an emissary of the Valar (Istari) he was afraid of Sauron:
“Manwë replied that he wished Olórin to go as the third messenger to Middle-earth... *But Olórin replied that he was too weak for such a task, and that he feared Sauron.* "
[- page 393, Unfinished Tales.]
Even ‘unbound’ he could not defeat Sauron:
“I am Gandalf, Gandalf the White, *but Black is mightier still.”*
[The Two Towers, LoTR Book 3, Ch 5, The White Rider]
"Dangerous!" cried Gandalf. "And so am I, very dangerous: more dangerous than anything you will ever meet, *unless you are brought alive before the seat of the Dark Lord.* "
[The Two Towers, LoTR Book 3, Ch 5, The White Rider]
You need to remember that this Sauron is the third age Sauron.. So the dark lord was *extremely weakened* after the Akhalabeth by Eru illuvatar(the god in Tolkien's universe). And lost his ring after his battle against the last alliance. But still, Sauron's weakest is more powerful than Gandalf's true/unbound Maiar form. He frightened of Sauron too badly and never wanted to go to Middle Earth to don't face the Dark Lord.
There are some Maiar that been described as the Maiar of Great power such as Eonwe, Sauron, Ilmare and Melian. Aannnd Olorin wasn't amongst them He was likely amongst the weakest in power (but of course he was the wisest of them but still very weak and less)
@@_semih_ He has been described as both an equal and as an inferior... that's the whole point I'm making. Equal does not mean identical in all aspects. If you don't like it, take it out with Tolkien and the Tolkien estate who had the audacity to publish information that is inconsistent with your thoughts (which are not necessarily correct, BTW - for example, the only 'canonical' effect of the Akallabeth on Sauron is his inability to take on a fair form; it is your inference that he was weakened).
@@dlevi67 Olorin and Sauron were equals in their beginnings they were both Maiar! But in the raw power and capabilities, Sauron is *far Superior* than Olorin.
If you read the letter, Tolkien says they were same kind of beings (so Maia) and Sauron is far higher order than Gandalf and Saruman. Tolkien doesn't just say "higher order"..., he says *"FAR* higher order"!
There is a very big difference between them in the hierarchy of might and power. That was my point
WHY ISN'T KING MANUEL OF THE CATS FACTION NOT HERE!!!
As bad as villains like Melkor and Sauron were, imagine what a nightmare Middle Earth would be if Melkor had been defeated by Ungoliant after destroying the Two Trees, leaving only she and her offspring to become the dominant force of evil plaguing the world.
The “Nameless things” weren't corrupt in the same way as fallen angels or demons (Melkor, Sauron, Balrogs, etc.) One theory takes Gandalf’s statement that the Nameless Things were older than Sauron more literally. The Nameless Things must have been created long back during the Ainulindalë (Great Music / Great Song) when Ilúvatar made the Ainur (Valar & Maiar) by manifesting his concepts as living beings. Upon their creation, when nothing else yet is made, Ilúvatar teaches the Ainur the art of 'Music', which becomes their life and work. However, Morgoth (aka Melkor) added Discord to the music to terrible effect. Christopher Tolkien (J.R.R. Tolkien’s son) actually wrote about this topic: “Out of the discords of the Music, not directly out of either of the themes, Eru’s or Melkor’s, but of their dissonance with regard one to another - evil things appeared in Arda, which did not descend from any direct plan or vision of Melkor." As such, evil things like Ungoliant and The Watcher in the Water were created out of discord and entered either Arda or the Void. This is just a theory though, and you have to take into account that Christopher Tolkien, not J.R.R. Tolkien spoke about the nameless things. But I like this theory the most out of the rest of them. Whos knows, theres probably lots more of these name things in the very depths of Arda or the void.
Why include Sauron if not Melkor? Sauron also originated in the west, and both took up their residence in middle earth in their quest for its dominion
Ah ha! The slippery slope. You are correct. Both are classified as AINUR, which means the most powerful beings in Middle Earth. But Balrogs and dragons could be Maiar too, so..... They should have just included Melkor, then their breakdown would have made more sense. Excluding Valar and including Maiar is a head-scratcher.....
@@Enerdhil Very few Valar ever went west, so including one and not the other is silly. The Maiar had many adventures in the east and shaped it a great deal.
You forgot The duke of Gondor….. most evil of them all. I can’t eat a damn tomato now due to him and he was ready to burn his own children
Steward, steward
Who was the most gifted sorcerer that was human in JRR tolkien's legendarium that was not an Nazgul? It was said that men could be sorcerers but the only ones I know of are the wizards and the Nasgul of course. But they are not human or men anymore. I'm just curious what the peak level a man could actually reach
The Witch-King should have been separated from the other Nazgul in terms of how powerful (or more accurately, destructive to the forces of good (i.e. "the West") he was. The W-K almost single-handedly caused the downfall of Arnor; he was responsible for the breaking of the line of kings of Gondor; he conquered Minas Ithil and made it his own stronghold; he led his other dark brethren in pursuit of Frodo and the ring, almost succeeding in turning him into a fellow wraith; he used his sorcerous powers to break the supposedly impenetrable gates of Minith Tirith; he killed Theoden, the king of Rohan. No doubt, the W-K ranks in the upper echelon of all-time most powerful evil beings in the history of Middle-Earth.
So if Sauron was a maiar, it could not be totally "killed"?
Sauron came from the thought of Eru so he could only be erased by Eru. But Sauron (and other Maiar such as Saruman) could lose both the ability to take physical form and project power in Arda, and do no more than wander as powerless spirits.
@@tominiowa2513 Hi from Iowa as well.
I think he was sent to the void
Yes! You’ve left off the MOST EVIL! There is one hidden in the darkness behind the darkness… we know that the GREAT SPIDER UNGOLIANT had babies… who or what impregnated Ungoliant???
i did sorry for that
Perhaps Melkor is the father. After all, she produced all her offspring shortly after her breakup with Melkor. And Melkor could take on any form back then. Maybe that's how he secured their deal.
@@jdlech makes sense to me… my real question is had you ever heard the question before? Then there is that reality in our natural world that the black widow eats the father of her brood. In this case the father had allies… the Balrogs.
@@jdlech that sounds so hot
When discussing just how powerful Sauron was, people tend to forget that when he was Lieutenant of Angband while Melkor was imprisoned by the Valar, he kept the other Maiar, namely the Balrogs, and countless Orcs and Trolls and perhaps the yet unreleased dragons under control. Iirr he is the third most powerful Maia only after Ilmarë and Eönwë.
I love the warhammer chaos demons mix up lmaoooo
#1 Jeff Bezos
Man, you guys are amazing at what you do. Thank you for these videos!
I wonder if Morgoth at his strongest would defeat Ungoliant after she devoured the trees. Personally I lean towards Morgoth, but i’m no expert.
It’s an interesting thing to speculate on as she only continued to grow stronger as she fed. Had she been able to consume the Silmaril as well as the Trees, I think she would’ve certainly had the potential. But Ungoliant would’ve needed the Silmaril first, and I doubt she would’ve had the cunning or patience to do anything but take them by force then and there, as happened with a weakened Morgoth. In the end, Ungoliant probably lacked the strength of mind to best a full powered Morgoth.
Melkor was mentioned in relation to his creations. Yet was left off the list itself. 🤔
Maybe we could see a history of the Ents next?
This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only Son into the world that we might live through him.
1 John 4:9
@@peterjacob7116
But as for these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slaughter them before me.’”
Luke 19:27
So your God shows his love by demanding the slaughter of nonbelievers? Cool story dude. Take your nonsense somewhere else
@@amphilochusofmallus5070
What do you think that verse means? In context.
@@bradleyperry1735 that your evil god demands slaughter. That it's perfectly okay to kill humans, so long as your monstrous supernatural dictator deems them to be enemies.
@@bradleyperry1735 go ahead an "contextualize" that
Where is Gollum? He should be on this list.
Man, Ungoliant almost killed Morgoth, a fallen Valar, and it was needed a full army of balrogs just to drive her away
Not a full army since there was like 7 at most
@@hugo-pg5tv dude, 7 maiar + a valar is an army in my opinion. I mean, it's not like there are many of them avaiable anyway lol
@@marcosceles2789 morgoth didn't fight and ungoliant fled as soon as the balrogs got there
@@hugo-pg5tv he didn't fight cuz he was too busy being humiliated by her. And, tbh, I would flee too if I had to face Melkor + 7 balrogs. The fact that she didn't insta die is a really impressive feat
@@marcosceles2789 he was captured so he couldn't fight and he was weakened and morgoth is a bitch compared to other valar
What about the werewolves of the First Age? Particularly Carcharoth and Draugluin….
2 things are wrong:
-1. Nazgul dont weaken if Sauron is weak, proof is the Witch King being at his most powerful during his rule of Angmar when Sauron was at his weakest.
-2. Ungoliant could never be more powerful then Melkor when he first came down to Arda, at that time he was 2nd to none exept Eru himself.
Tolkien literally says that the Nazgul get stronger and weaker with Sauron, word for word. And Ungoliant takes Melkor prisoner and he can’t save himself - he has to call on his Balrogs.
Like what are you talking about? You’re just straight up wrong lol.
@@davidwilliamson8502 Tolkien also literally said that Balrogs arent Ainur......
Yet he later wrote them as Ainur, most of his work is unfinished and put together by Cristopher using his head cannon.
What I said is factual though, Witch King was at his most powerful while he was the ruler of Angmar... when Sauron was at his weakest/defeated.
Before it is described how Ungoliant *attacked*, not imprisoned Morgoth and he let out his scream it is said that she grew in power thanks to the power he gave her, jewles from Valinor she devoured and juices of the two trees she drank while he grew weaker because of the power that left him....
As in she was amped and he weakend.
"And he descended upon Arda in power and majesty greater than any other of the Valar, as a mountain that wades in the sea and has its head above the clouds and is clad in ice and crowned with smoke and fire; and the light of the eyes of Melkor was like a flame that withers with heat and pierces with a deadly cold."
At this time Morgoth was at his most powerful and capable of waging war against all the other Valar by himself, nothing compares to him at this time.
You forgot Eowyn's Stew
Damn!
I believe there are some lost tales of her stew being able to damage the one ring if left in it for a few hours. Eowyn the shield maiden fair quick with a sworn and long flowing hair one glace upon her your heart would be shook but as hard as she might the poor girl could not cook. Her stew could turn an trolls stomach it was such the foul thing .It was also said it could melt the one ring.
Evil beingses! They seemed to have forgotten us, Preciousssss.
Well, he/they aren't exactly powerful, and neither really evil
Draugluin or carcharoth
Thank you so much they were so many awesome pictures! What a treat thanks so much
2:10 i know the Mark of Khorne when i see one 😉 btw great video .
P.S- For the people who are Wondering its of a different fictional Universe Warhammer 40k.
So here's a question that I'm not sure has been answered. Well, two questions.
1. What happened to Sauron after the Ring was destroyed? His is, after all, still immortal. Was his essence (his spirit, if you'd like) subject to the same fate as Morgoth? When Sauron did not have the Ring, he was able to slowly coalesce and strengthen his spirit until he could take a physical form, though the process was significantly slower and more tedious than with the Ring. Was his spirit still in Middle Earth, potentially to strengthen once more?
2. Elves are immortal... But they age. Kinda. At what point do Elves stop 'aging'? How long does that take? Do they have any degree of agency or control over that process, similar to how some Elves have chosen mortality?
I always thought that Sauron would be wondering demonic spirit that could only have influence on a single person at a time. So if he possesses a prince or king, he could have a profound effect on a country, especially an imperialist if one.
As for Elves aging, Cirdan looks like a wizard by the end of the Third Age, but when did that happen? We don't know and never will know. I would guess that the appearance of age would reflect the level of "fading" for each elf. The more wornout and weighed down by existence they are, the older they appear. I think Celebrian would have looked like an old lady by the time she left Middle Earth.
As for the Maiar, when they died, they lost their physical form in Arda and so could not project power on it, so they wandered only as power less spirits. This was pointed out with Sauron in the fall of Numenor. He lost his original appearance and had he not already put most of his power in the ring prior to these events, would never have been able to take a physical form again. It is said that his spirit rose from the ruins of Numenor and fled to Mordor where he wielded his ring again. And even when taking a new physical form, he had to build it for himself and could not possess another living or even dead being
@@ibrahimolima1184
If the spirit of Saruman could possess Theoden King, why couldn't the spirit of Sauron?
both questions are already answered. check for Tolkien Gateway.
The dragons r my favorite
i was kind of expecting something about one or 2 of the more notable squid creatures like the one seen outside moria. but perhaps they are not really evil
The “Nameless things” weren't corrupt in the same way as fallen angels or demons (Melkor, Sauron, Balrogs, etc.) One theory takes Gandalf’s statement that the Nameless Things were older than Sauron more literally. The Nameless Things must have been created long back during the Ainulindalë (Great Music / Great Song) when Ilúvatar made the Ainur (Valar & Maiar) by manifesting his concepts as living beings. Upon their creation, when nothing else yet is made, Ilúvatar teaches the Ainur the art of 'Music', which becomes their life and work. However, Morgoth (aka Melkor) added Discord to the music to terrible effect. Christopher Tolkien (J.R.R. Tolkien’s son) actually wrote about this topic: “Out of the discords of the Music, not directly out of either of the themes, Eru’s or Melkor’s, but of their dissonance with regard one to another - evil things appeared in Arda, which did not descend from any direct plan or vision of Melkor." As such, evil things like Ungoliant and The Watcher in the Water were created out of discord and entered either Arda or the Void. This is just a theory though, and you have to take into account that Christopher Tolkien, not J.R.R. Tolkien spoke about the nameless things. But I like this theory the most out of the rest of them. Whos knows, theres probably lots more of these name things in the very depths of Arda or the void.
Video starts here 1:14
Duh EVERYONE knows that JRR Tolkien is the most powerful ANYTHING in all of middle Earth
But he’s not evil.
Sauron isn't someone you'd bet against
Also sauron-has lost in the 2nd as well as the third age
agreed, but at enormous cost of life...
In the second age, he lost by the power of Eru Illuvatar. Tolkien noted that Sauron was extremely weakened after the downfall of Numenor by Eru so this is why Gil-Galad and Elendil managed to kill Sauron. But in fact Sauron defeated them despite his own weakened state (also he broke the siege of Barad-dur and pushed the army of the Last Alliance 30 miles(48 kilometers) back singlehandedly)
In third age, he was defeated by Eru Illuvatar again. In one of his letters Tolkien said it was Eru who caused Gollum fell into the lava with the One Ring.
The wolf Carcharoth.
I think Fëanor and at least some of his sons belong on this list as well. They were corrupted by Morgoth as well, even if in a different manner than Sauron and the balrogs.
But they weren’t evil I would argue, save one or two.
My list:
1.Morgoth
2.Ungoliant
3.Sauron
4.Gothmog
5.Ancalagon
6.Saruman
7.Carharooth
8.Glaurung
9.Durins Bane
10.Smaug
Can you do the Sauron and Morgoth video on whether they believed they were evil
Why did the nine wear black cloaks? If they had been invisible the entire time, Frodo would have been totally screwed.
How about the Nameless Things of the Depth?
"Now please note that I have specifically said Middle Earth: east of Arda."
**15 seconds later**
"So anyways, let's start with Sauron..."
**confusion**
And carcharoth? HE EATED A SILMARIL(a silmaril is a powerful gem, that in his interior has the power of a star) AND KEEPED IT IN HIS STOMACH DURING HOURS
Love the Bloodthirster and Khorne Daemon army art you had in here for the Balrogs lol
I was looking for a comment from someone else who noticed that
Im just thinking here... U put Sauron and "the 9" on this list.... And say thery are on the list becurse so many feared him/them... But then allmost all "evil" things has a plase on this list, i dont get way so many see Sauron as a "big evil boss", when u look at the timeline.... He was just what was left after Melcor, and he was not big enough for the valar to realy do enything... Yes he help the elfs make the rings of power, Sauron DID NOT MAKE THE RINGS OF POWER! He only made the one ring! Yes he crouped men, big deal!! So to did almost all the evil things in Middel Earth, man are weak in ME and gets fu-ked left and right... But yes if u compare Sauron to an orc or man, then he is strong and powerful, put him next to an elf of the 1 age and he is more on pare... Put him next to enything in Melcors army and hes nothing.... If he was, way didten he fight or realy did enything before Melcor was gone? If he could turn men like so many people say, way didten he do that in the 1 age?? U see when u look closer at Sauron, hes more like a cry baby, that was left behinde then at evil lord :) and u mised complitly the biggest evil of them all ERU ILUVATRA, u know that crap-head ho made Melcor and turned him slowly agenst the other valar!! ( and to all of u that say hi didten! Just look at that Eru did with the flame of life, when Melcor asked for it, Eru send him in to the void! but when ulmo and the other valar wanted it, he gave it freely aka the drowfs, ents, eagles and many others forms of life, but for Melcor nothing!)
Now do the heroes!
To make a correction to lore: The Spider (Shelob) ate Frodo and the RING OF POWER so nature has it now. Rest is fantasy on lore, wishful hope for rerun. Talk to lions and ants and such if you want to learn more. They run the show (ref. ua-cam.com/video/ijxk-fgcg7c/v-deo.html The Cure: Lullaby)
The one ring is the most powerful being. If you can call it a being. The ring was out for its own survival and no one could destroy it. Represent addiction and Sauron even needed it to the point his whole existence was centered on getting it back.
Don't forget than if Ungoliant was so powerfull,....it came only after she drank/sucked out the power from the two Trees.......That's why she was able to treat Morgoth, she couldn't do that before....
Neither Morgoth nor Sauron couldn't create life, right? Only can twist and deform existing life. So, where did dragons come from?
What's with you worrying about comments!? . Its obviously YT. Why don't you just make a list of power order. All the way to the most powerful. Total BS
As I understand it, all evil comes from Melkor (Morgoth). His discord in the first music of the ainur and the subsequent strife against the rest of the Valar (the destruction of the lamps and his first imprisonment) is the equivalent to the fall of Lucifer.
Many Maia flocked to his banner and were thus corrupted into the terrible and powerful beings we come across later on down the ages, aka Ungoliant, The Watcher in the lake, the great worms in the Hobbit that give passage to the orc armies. I believe these to be some examples of the nameless things that Gandalf mentions. They fled to the deep hiding places of the world following Melkor's first defeat just as some of the Balrogs, Dragons, Sauron etc did in the aftermath of the War of Wrath!
As for the most powerful evil being (Melkor aside), I'd put my money on Ancalagon the Black. He's basically some sort of ubersized Dragon that almost single handedly pushed back the Valar and the whole host of the West! Not even Sauron, Ungoliant or Gothmog could do that!
Yes, they indeed weren't corrupt in the same way as fallen angels or demons (Melkor, Sauron, Balrogs, etc.) One theory takes Gandalf’s statement that the Nameless Things were older than Sauron more literally. The Nameless Things must have been created long back during the Ainulindalë (Great Music / Great Song) when Ilúvatar made the Ainur (Valar & Maiar) by manifesting his concepts as living beings. Upon their creation, when nothing else yet is made, Ilúvatar teaches the Ainur the art of 'Music', which becomes their life and work. However, Morgoth (aka Melkor) added Discord to the music to terrible effect. Christopher Tolkien (J.R.R. Tolkien’s son) actually wrote about this topic: “Out of the discords of the Music, not directly out of either of the themes, Eru’s or Melkor’s, but of their dissonance with regard one to another - evil things appeared in Arda, which did not descend from any direct plan or vision of Melkor." As such, evil things like Ungoliant and The Watcher in the Water were created out of discord and entered either Arda or the Void. This is just a theory though, and you have to take into account that Christopher Tolkien, not J.R.R. Tolkien spoke about the nameless things. But I like this theory the most out of the rest of them. Whos knows, theres probably lots more of these name things in the very depths of Arda or the void.
Isn't that first picture used when mentioning balrogs actually daemons of khorne from 40k
sorry but you made a mistake. Gothmog, lieutenant of Minas Morgul was not an orc or Black Numenorean. it’s never mentioned what was his race. i personally believe that he was A black numenorean . i don’t think Sauron would thrust orc to lead his armies after Witch Kings demise.
Carcharoth, is a very Powerfull evil character too, maybe as powerful as Gothmog, thanks for the vídeo, good work