I've often wondered if the half-orcs and goblin-men that Saruman used as servants, weren't created by some kind of dark magic that mutated men into orcs. When Saruman wrecks the Shire, he has Grima with him and insinuates that Grima devoured the corpse of Lotho Sackville-Baggins. Grima was a man of Rohan and was corrupt, but following his ousting becomes vilely submissive to the wizard. I wonder is Saruman didn't mutate Grima into some kind of orc-man, violent and hungry for man-flesh, or hobbit. That's just my own speculation, though! *Happy Easter and Springtime!*
Perhaps they had both origins, they were corrupted Elves whose essence was used to craft the race through breeding. Uruk-Hai are the ranks of corrupted Elves, and the stone from the bowels of the Earth was used to breed them to create the other ranks. Their breeding perhaps was unable to reach the essence of the corrupt elves, the immortality. Sort of like horse and donky can only have mules. Thus a smaller less intelligent orc is the successive generations after the Uruk were created out of the corrupt elves and the essence of stone that Melkor was able to craft but wasnt sentient in its being as it was not created by God.
That's no excuse. I got corrupted by Morgoth and Sauron, yet I remain polite and care about my appearance and personal hygiene. Those elves were bad apples.
@@northplayyyer3453 That seems like a fair point. I did start drinking copious amount of tea and taking out my own teeth since I became corrupted. Crikey!
It is unknown if the Orcs were immortal like the Elves. There is, in any case, a hint for a long lifespan in the story of Azog and Bolg. Bolg, being the son of Azog, was the chieftain of the Orcs who attacked Erebor in the Battle of Five Armies in T.A. 2941. Azog himself was killed in the Battle of Azanulbizar in T.A. 2799, so Bolg was at least 142 years old.
In LOTRO, there’s a quest in Goblin Town where there’s an imprisoned goblin who promises to give you info you need if you help him escape. He swears he’ll not only give the intel, but ally with you as well. Once freed though, he proceeds to attack and you’re forced to kill him. That’s the nature of orc kind. Ever treacherous.
From what I understand it wasn't just the Elves who Melkor took, he also took men and Dwarves, forcing them to interbreed. Which is where Elves get the idea of corruption. Wasn't just that they were ruined and terrible forms of life, it was their essential Elvish Grace was diluted to the point of almost nonexistence. Every time Melkor had the opportunity to add a new form to the mix, even some of the Maiar in his service, I'm sure he would. Which is how he beat, one by one, each of the Orcs weaknesses. Remember how Saruman breed Orcs with Dunlending men to create the Uruk-hai, Orc's who can move in sunlight? They were formed in the deepest part of Isengard to be as close to Melkor's strength as possible. Just as Sauron crafted the One Ring in the largest volcano in Middle Earth; the greatest upwelling of Melkor's strength. Remember it was Melkor who formed the Foundations of Middle Earth, a physical manifestation of who and what he was: Destruction and creation, all at once! It was also likely how the nameless things and Ungoliant entered into the world. He invited them.
The issue of Orc's 'soul' and their willingness to participate in the great wars has always had me scratching my head. Were they sentient creatures. In the literature, they are frequently portrayed in a way that suggests they have individual minds, personalities and motives. Some are clever or stupid, aome are really good at their jobs and others are incompetent. They seem to enjoy being at war and living the army life... though what else would they be doing? Painting? Writing poetry? Stompin' on bugs for fun? Who knows. They are under some spell or influence that gives them the courage to fight and to be in the open and in daylight doing it. They are dutiful. They do their jobs and seem to have pride in it. And the leadership is dedicated to the command structure and overall mission... we see them motivating their troops, demanding they uphold a level of standards and showing an allegiance to their master and to their own kind in-general. They have pride in their home-town and their clan... they all look down on the others for being goblins/orcs/uruks and for being from where ever they are from. They would pull rank and jurisdiction on each other like a Sheriff Dept, Sate Police and FBI all working the same case.😂 So they exhibit some personality, some empathy, some senses of pride and shame... but its all within their necessary set of functions. They have free will up to the point they must obey their master. Its like RoboCop's prime directive. That movie also addressed this very issue... at what point does a creation become a creature? They are more like bio-mechanical battle drones with really good AI. Sauron's Uruks were literally born with a sword in their hand. They pop out the ground fully grown, fully trained... somehow... and ready to go off to war the next day. They don't even have to learn to walk 😂. But then... there are societies of orcs, goblins, ect. Obviously the ones that crawled back into their holes after the first war of the ring clearly went on living without being unwittingly complelled by a dark master for 1000s of years. So then.... are there lady orcs? Or do they still pry new guys out of holes in the ground? Can they reproduce or are they like elves... immortal so long as nbobody outright kills them? Are they the same ones that fought in the first battles? The literature references them multiplying and spreading out more as the borders of men went unguarded... but also references that say they were being bred in vast numbers in Mordor like they were being cloned or grown like mushrooms. So IDK... they are just AI drones when there is an evil master controlling them but I suppose they are a "people" in the between times, as much as AI would be considered "people." Without their purpose... wtf do orcs do all day?
I really enjoyed this video. I've often wondered whether Orc's had any measure of free will. If they do, then surely there is the possibility of a 'good Orc's, if they were mindless drones maybe not.
i think part of the corruption could have been an equal corruption of their fea, severing their connection to valinor and disrupting resurrection. it makes the lives of orcs even sadder, but could also be a twisted reason for their devotion to the dark lords. of course this also makes their existence more realistic (in my opinion), or perhaps the most analogous to the lives of actual humans. its a dark metaphor i've constructed out of tolkiens work, i doubt very much he would have considered an atheistic reading.
This is actually one of the best videos I've seen that goes to the core of the problem with the Legendarium of Tolkien. Yes, he got a bit "woke" at the end and did struggle with the "problem of evil" in his own faith. That is just a part that everyone who is a fan have to deal with. There is no straight answer. Yet, the great professor left us with these issues unresolved, and in my mind that is part of his mastery, but also his flaws. I lean towards not over-complicating things and keep these as the myths they were originally meant to be, without the struggling ideas of souls and "free will" of an aging and ever more religious author, but that's just me.
Not quite. When the Valar found the Eldar they were separated into 3 groups. 1 group became the Elves, 1 group became the Sea Elves while the 3rd group became the Gnomes. This shows that the initial Eldar tribes were made up of both tall and short members, however, before having the short members separated into a different group and forming a separate race, they split, with some fleeing into the darkness. This means that those that fled were certainly mixed between the tall and short. With the emphasis placed on physical strength by the dark races it makes sense that the short members would separate themselves off at the first chance, forming a new race. Therefore while Orcs are corrupted Elves, Goblins are corrupted Gnomes, all four descended from the Eldar but separated into different distinct races, two tall and two short.
In Tolkiens books, orcs were captured and corrupted elves.. Saruman later bred them with captured humans.. Whether they could be "redeemed" is kind of an interesting question.. They were slaves and slave warriors bred over time in an "orc eat orc" society.. One hint in the books is that they were capable of discussing reluctance to go to war but knew that any sign of not following their Masters orders would mean death.. The mud/slime petri dish at Orthanc was Peter Jackson's invention.. Just as the Dwarf/Elf love affair in the Hobbit.. Orcs were sadly, as stated a corruption of Iluvatars creations by a jealous, pitiless and evil Valar.. Melkor.
I find it very interesting how people get so passionate and absolute of the answer, when the question seems to be more philosophical "where does evil come from?", more important than the answer. To me it is obvious that his religious upbringing (not that bad, don't get me wrong, he wasn't crazy zealot) played a key role here. I'd be bold enough to say he even struggled with the concept of evil and it shows everywhere in his works. There are absolutes and then there aren't. There are questions about free will and then there aren't. There's the sin and redemption. Gollum - the poor tortured split personality soul - is a perfect example of this. He is an isn't an evil being. He has and hasn't free will. He is pretty much embodiment of the whole dilemma. He might be the most humane character in the lore. But even elves can do evil. (Well, that's kind of the next after the original sin, pretty much like a huge group of Eves, who were just victims of the creation of evil.) Do superhuman beings even have a free will? Are they just automatons? Are we? Yeah, that got out of hand and of course we could go on, but the actual point was in the first line.
I still like my theory most. That orcs were made in mockery of Dwarves, not Elves. Ancient Elves knew Morgoth made distortions of life. They did not know about Dwarves yet, so they assumed it was of them. Morgoth may have even known The Smith who made the Dwarves and of how Illuvitar blessed them and was able to garner the same for his creations. Also creates a possible explanation for why so many Maiar under The Smith turned to Morgoth. They had exposure to him. Many other little details make it make mire sense. If they had once been Elf I can't believe Elves could slaughter them so mercilessly
I favor an all of the above approach. Morgoth corrupted elves, men, and potentially ape-like animals and cross-bred them all and infused them with sorcery. Sauron and Saruman also tinkered with their own designs. Thus, not all orcs are identical.
The disruption of the ideal Arda, which was intended to be created by the Music of the Ainur, is due to Melkor incarnating his spiritual power into it (weaving his melody into it in music during its performance) after the vision of Arda was created with the Secret Fire. When we consider incarnate existence as soul (fëa) and body (hröa), just as the body can be corrupted like Arda due to Melkor's will (incarnation of his spiritual power), the soul can also be corrupted metaphysically by this will. At this point, could rings of power be a key to this spiritual healing? The function of the rings of power may be based on pacifying Melkor's will, which pervades the material of Arda. In this perspective, can an orc's corrupted soul be healed through a ring of power?
just bc the orcs take revenge doesn’t mean its out of grief of to avenge their comrades, it might just be an ego thing. Orcs hate feeling weak. Anything that challenges them must be destroyed.
If we are induging in the metaphsical, a thought has occurred to me of late. If Sauron would have recovered the One Ring, and he was considerably weakened, losing the ability to hava fair form, would the Ring have eventually consumed him?
It seems to me that the goblins (orcs) in the mines of Moria were smaller than in other places. Maybe those were orc women crawling down the walls. Hell knows no fury like a woman's scorn.
In Christian theology, everything God creates, Satan perverts and makes his own counterfeits, Tolkien makes this a clear theme in his writings that Morgoth never has power enough to create anything new on his own, all he can do is counterfeit. He cannot create light so he destroys the trees and steals the Silmarili, he needs to capture eagles to make flying dragons, he needs to capture elves to make Uruk Hai, etc. Tolkien is orders of magnitude deeper if you can read him through biblical lens.
How come all the orcs couldn’t climb walls/pillars like the ones in Moria in the movies, if they were both orc groups and not goblins? Seems like it would of been advantageous at minus tirith and helms deep to be able to climb the walls.
Orcs from moria had their armors designed after Durins bane, there was spikes in their shoes and gauntlets that Made climbing possible, also it came from necessity, they Made their homes on top of the pillars, safe from the flames
And absolutely they're not Maiar, 12 maiar who joined melkor, they became Balrog, other than Sauron which was one of the mightiest of all maiar good or evil, in the same level as Eönwë
It would have made more sense just to make them slightly evolved pigs and/or warthogs Otherwise it would have been impossible to raise the large armies that they did in this short amount of time, as others have said there's a million plot holes and contrivances in these books, but we still enjoy them
Framing device? I've been using one without even knowing what it was called. LOL Now on to other matters... In my Realms of Erda (Pronounced: Air duh) Orcs, Goblins, and Hobgoblins are different races. Orcs & Goblins were crafted by the gods during Arithorund ( Pronounced: Uh rith oh rund), the Waking Age of Erda. Hobgoblins along with Chymaveds (my version of Bugbears [WotC property]) came soon afterwards, as the two "parent" races intermixed. Hobgoblins & Chymaveds (Pronounced: Kee muh veds) interact regularly, but it is physical differences that delineate these two "children" races. Hobgoblins look more like their Goblin ancestors, having sharply pointed ears and noses. The Chymaveds by contrast have rounder ears and more bulbous noses, looking less Goblin-like. All four races can and will work together. Their future? Orcs have lived for too long under the lash of others, primarily the Dark Elves. They launch a rebellion and win their freedom (a novel in my next series). Goblins during the unrest of the Orc rebellion become a completely mercenary society; mining & crafting for whoever pays them the most. Hobgolins & Chymaveds, as a lesser evolved pair of races, remain in servitude, they know no other life.
A shame Broken Swoed wasted footage on that load of sewage, the hobbit movies. Non stop fight scenes and nothing like the novel. If you truly love Tolkien, avoid like the plague
Yeah, sure! But you already made several Videos on this topic! That makes this for a.... fan.... former fan... Not enjoyable. You made you´re lot. There is nothing new, you simply will not hold in the long run
love Tolkien; all characters, the names, kingdoms & people, histories all the depth detail; orcs just corrupted elves this comes across flatfooted... I have never liked the fact that he made them corrupted elves (lame, cheesy, I am sorry but stupid !) then in my book if orcs are just corrupted elves then the two should be able to cross breed, & I could see the orcs still breeding on female elves just to defile them plus increase their numbers, & goblins & orcs are the same another one, maybe cuz I actually ran into D&D first, orcs are not elves nor goblins; none of this ever set well with me; he was so creative w/ everything else man just take another 5-10 minutes (just because you corrupt them does not change the fundamental base genes) now if there was a mutation (even like a magic induced mutation or just a mutation from some magic; or they feel into the something, ate something, a potion mutation would be the cause & it IS the reason for change; @ least for me it would sound better, be more logical, but Tolkien doesn't even suggest that, did Tolkien come straight out & say goblins, & orcs are just two different names for the same creature (not in D&D or AD&D) IDK I am probably a heretic
Since when was “choice” a moral problem with something like this? And since when the hell did it make a difference where evil behaviour and beings came from? All that matters is that they exist and need to be dealt with
because the larger implications is how likely they would be of being freed of that control and being able to be redeemed of their deeds. Its a pretty big deal especially considering how Gollum is in many ways the same as an Orc, a perversion of the goodness of Halflings, who's possible redemption was almost achieved if it wasn't for the actions others.
I hope you all have a great Easter and are just doing awesome in general 😁
You too brother 🙏❤️
Hope you had a Great Easter as well!! Thanks for the amazing content
I’m an orc… so….
Of course we'd love a breakdown of the early Silmarillion, with the extended saga of the fall of Gondolin, you hardly need to ask.
Late! But Seconded!
I've often wondered if the half-orcs and goblin-men that Saruman used as servants, weren't created by some kind of dark magic that mutated men into orcs. When Saruman wrecks the Shire, he has Grima with him and insinuates that Grima devoured the corpse of Lotho Sackville-Baggins. Grima was a man of Rohan and was corrupt, but following his ousting becomes vilely submissive to the wizard. I wonder is Saruman didn't mutate Grima into some kind of orc-man, violent and hungry for man-flesh, or hobbit. That's just my own speculation, though!
*Happy Easter and Springtime!*
What a great Easter gift!!
Perhaps they had both origins, they were corrupted Elves whose essence was used to craft the race through breeding. Uruk-Hai are the ranks of corrupted Elves, and the stone from the bowels of the Earth was used to breed them to create the other ranks. Their breeding perhaps was unable to reach the essence of the corrupt elves, the immortality. Sort of like horse and donky can only have mules. Thus a smaller less intelligent orc is the successive generations after the Uruk were created out of the corrupt elves and the essence of stone that Melkor was able to craft but wasnt sentient in its being as it was not created by God.
Some may also be half human attempts at breeding.
Orcs are an interesting race in LOTR, elves corrupted by Morgoth and Sauron.
That's no excuse. I got corrupted by Morgoth and Sauron, yet I remain polite and care about my appearance and personal hygiene.
Those elves were bad apples.
@@michaldimitrov3233But you are not a elf. When a human gets corrupted by Melkor and Mairon they just become british.
@@northplayyyer3453 That seems like a fair point. I did start drinking copious amount of tea and taking out my own teeth since I became corrupted. Crikey!
It is unknown if the Orcs were immortal like the Elves. There is, in any case, a hint for a long lifespan in the story of Azog and Bolg. Bolg, being the son of Azog, was the chieftain of the Orcs who attacked Erebor in the Battle of Five Armies in T.A. 2941. Azog himself was killed in the Battle of Azanulbizar in T.A. 2799, so Bolg was at least 142 years old.
There is an Uruk I know of that worked for morgoth, I don’t know what his name was or where I heard of him
In LOTRO, there’s a quest in Goblin Town where there’s an imprisoned goblin who promises to give you info you need if you help him escape. He swears he’ll not only give the intel, but ally with you as well. Once freed though, he proceeds to attack and you’re forced to kill him. That’s the nature of orc kind. Ever treacherous.
Excellent coverage. The subtle overlay allowing for further conversation is well placed.
Thank you so much! Wishing you a fantastic Easter as well, filled with joy, peace, and blessings. Take care and stay awesome!
That scene of the orcs making weapons in Isengard aaand the ome is screaming and losing his shit makes me cackle everytime i see it AHHHHHEHEHEH"
It's unreal the level of mythology Tolkein created.
Happy Easter everyone!!!
Who is it?
Happy Easter to you too!
@@PleaseNThankYou Thanks :)
Happy Easter!
What a great idea for a video!!!
I always wondered if Melkor could keep the elves' souls from going back to the Halls of Mandos, and that's how he corrupted them to their cores.
From what I understand it wasn't just the Elves who Melkor took, he also took men and Dwarves, forcing them to interbreed. Which is where Elves get the idea of corruption. Wasn't just that they were ruined and terrible forms of life, it was their essential Elvish Grace was diluted to the point of almost nonexistence.
Every time Melkor had the opportunity to add a new form to the mix, even some of the Maiar in his service, I'm sure he would. Which is how he beat, one by one, each of the Orcs weaknesses.
Remember how Saruman breed Orcs with Dunlending men to create the Uruk-hai, Orc's who can move in sunlight? They were formed in the deepest part of Isengard to be as close to Melkor's strength as possible. Just as Sauron crafted the One Ring in the largest volcano in Middle Earth; the greatest upwelling of Melkor's strength. Remember it was Melkor who formed the Foundations of Middle Earth, a physical manifestation of who and what he was: Destruction and creation, all at once! It was also likely how the nameless things and Ungoliant entered into the world. He invited them.
Looks like meats back on the menu boys!
I love your channel 👍 👍
The original Silmirilion
How woukd sauron trick the elves into letting him in their land and then to actually do an activity like ring making....wtf...
Original Silmarillion, please!
Happy Easter!
I’m interested in what average orcs do when not being commanded by a force like Sauron . Do they ever just hang out, eat and enjoy the day?
@sirvilhelmofyonderland you should play shadow of war and shadow of mordor they aren't cannon but it adds so much to the orcs
@@SunFyyre cool 💯👍
Do the Original
The issue of Orc's 'soul' and their willingness to participate in the great wars has always had me scratching my head. Were they sentient creatures.
In the literature, they are frequently portrayed in a way that suggests they have individual minds, personalities and motives. Some are clever or stupid, aome are really good at their jobs and others are incompetent. They seem to enjoy being at war and living the army life... though what else would they be doing? Painting? Writing poetry? Stompin' on bugs for fun? Who knows.
They are under some spell or influence that gives them the courage to fight and to be in the open and in daylight doing it. They are dutiful. They do their jobs and seem to have pride in it. And the leadership is dedicated to the command structure and overall mission... we see them motivating their troops, demanding they uphold a level of standards and showing an allegiance to their master and to their own kind in-general. They have pride in their home-town and their clan... they all look down on the others for being goblins/orcs/uruks and for being from where ever they are from. They would pull rank and jurisdiction on each other like a Sheriff Dept, Sate Police and FBI all working the same case.😂
So they exhibit some personality, some empathy, some senses of pride and shame... but its all within their necessary set of functions. They have free will up to the point they must obey their master. Its like RoboCop's prime directive. That movie also addressed this very issue... at what point does a creation become a creature?
They are more like bio-mechanical battle drones with really good AI.
Sauron's Uruks were literally born with a sword in their hand. They pop out the ground fully grown, fully trained... somehow... and ready to go off to war the next day. They don't even have to learn to walk 😂.
But then... there are societies of orcs, goblins, ect. Obviously the ones that crawled back into their holes after the first war of the ring clearly went on living without being unwittingly complelled by a dark master for 1000s of years.
So then.... are there lady orcs? Or do they still pry new guys out of holes in the ground? Can they reproduce or are they like elves... immortal so long as nbobody outright kills them? Are they the same ones that fought in the first battles?
The literature references them multiplying and spreading out more as the borders of men went unguarded... but also references that say they were being bred in vast numbers in Mordor like they were being cloned or grown like mushrooms.
So IDK... they are just AI drones when there is an evil master controlling them but I suppose they are a "people" in the between times, as much as AI would be considered "people."
Without their purpose... wtf do orcs do all day?
I really enjoyed this video. I've often wondered whether Orc's had any measure of free will. If they do, then surely there is the possibility of a 'good Orc's, if they were mindless drones maybe not.
i think part of the corruption could have been an equal corruption of their fea, severing their connection to valinor and disrupting resurrection. it makes the lives of orcs even sadder, but could also be a twisted reason for their devotion to the dark lords. of course this also makes their existence more realistic (in my opinion), or perhaps the most analogous to the lives of actual humans. its a dark metaphor i've constructed out of tolkiens work, i doubt very much he would have considered an atheistic reading.
Love the longer video
This is actually one of the best videos I've seen that goes to the core of the problem with the Legendarium of Tolkien. Yes, he got a bit "woke" at the end and did struggle with the "problem of evil" in his own faith. That is just a part that everyone who is a fan have to deal with. There is no straight answer.
Yet, the great professor left us with these issues unresolved, and in my mind that is part of his mastery, but also his flaws. I lean towards not over-complicating things and keep these as the myths they were originally meant to be, without the struggling ideas of souls and "free will" of an aging and ever more religious author, but that's just me.
I love Orcs (or Orks) from all fantasy genres.
Not quite. When the Valar found the Eldar they were separated into 3 groups. 1 group became the Elves, 1 group became the Sea Elves while the 3rd group became the Gnomes. This shows that the initial Eldar tribes were made up of both tall and short members, however, before having the short members separated into a different group and forming a separate race, they split, with some fleeing into the darkness. This means that those that fled were certainly mixed between the tall and short. With the emphasis placed on physical strength by the dark races it makes sense that the short members would separate themselves off at the first chance, forming a new race. Therefore while Orcs are corrupted Elves, Goblins are corrupted Gnomes, all four descended from the Eldar but separated into different distinct races, two tall and two short.
In Tolkiens books, orcs were captured and corrupted elves..
Saruman later bred them with captured humans..
Whether they could be "redeemed" is kind of an interesting question..
They were slaves and slave warriors bred over time in an "orc eat orc" society..
One hint in the books is that they were capable of discussing reluctance to go to war but knew that any sign of not following their Masters orders would mean death..
The mud/slime petri dish at Orthanc was Peter Jackson's invention..
Just as the Dwarf/Elf love affair in the Hobbit..
Orcs were sadly, as stated a corruption of Iluvatars creations by a jealous, pitiless and evil Valar.. Melkor.
I find it very interesting how people get so passionate and absolute of the answer, when the question seems to be more philosophical "where does evil come from?", more important than the answer. To me it is obvious that his religious upbringing (not that bad, don't get me wrong, he wasn't crazy zealot) played a key role here. I'd be bold enough to say he even struggled with the concept of evil and it shows everywhere in his works. There are absolutes and then there aren't. There are questions about free will and then there aren't. There's the sin and redemption. Gollum - the poor tortured split personality soul - is a perfect example of this. He is an isn't an evil being. He has and hasn't free will. He is pretty much embodiment of the whole dilemma. He might be the most humane character in the lore. But even elves can do evil. (Well, that's kind of the next after the original sin, pretty much like a huge group of Eves, who were just victims of the creation of evil.) Do superhuman beings even have a free will? Are they just automatons? Are we?
Yeah, that got out of hand and of course we could go on, but the actual point was in the first line.
In lotr appendix about dwarves of Durin, talkin wrote about Bolg being Azog's son, so although not in the Hobbit, but it's as talkin himself told
I still like my theory most.
That orcs were made in mockery of Dwarves, not Elves. Ancient Elves knew Morgoth made distortions of life. They did not know about Dwarves yet, so they assumed it was of them. Morgoth may have even known The Smith who made the Dwarves and of how Illuvitar blessed them and was able to garner the same for his creations. Also creates a possible explanation for why so many Maiar under The Smith turned to Morgoth. They had exposure to him. Many other little details make it make mire sense. If they had once been Elf I can't believe Elves could slaughter them so mercilessly
I favor an all of the above approach. Morgoth corrupted elves, men, and potentially ape-like animals and cross-bred them all and infused them with sorcery. Sauron and Saruman also tinkered with their own designs. Thus, not all orcs are identical.
The disruption of the ideal Arda, which was intended to be created by the Music of the Ainur, is due to Melkor incarnating his spiritual power into it (weaving his melody into it in music during its performance) after the vision of Arda was created with the Secret Fire. When we consider incarnate existence as soul (fëa) and body (hröa), just as the body can be corrupted like Arda due to Melkor's will (incarnation of his spiritual power), the soul can also be corrupted metaphysically by this will. At this point, could rings of power be a key to this spiritual healing? The function of the rings of power may be based on pacifying Melkor's will, which pervades the material of Arda. In this perspective, can an orc's corrupted soul be healed through a ring of power?
Yes to the original silmarilion
just bc the orcs take revenge doesn’t mean its out of grief of to avenge their comrades, it might just be an ego thing. Orcs hate feeling weak. Anything that challenges them must be destroyed.
Good video
If we are induging in the metaphsical, a thought has occurred to me of late. If Sauron would have recovered the One Ring, and he was considerably weakened, losing the ability to hava fair form, would the Ring have eventually consumed him?
It seems to me that the goblins (orcs) in the mines of Moria were smaller than in other places. Maybe those were orc women crawling down the walls. Hell knows no fury like a woman's scorn.
One of the big aims of any power planning war is to de-humanize the enemy.
Nice work dude thanks
Burying an orc bone and it sprouting 5 other orcs is horrifying lmao
I'm sure Jason would agree.
Like a very cursed potato.
In Christian theology, everything God creates, Satan perverts and makes his own counterfeits, Tolkien makes this a clear theme in his writings that Morgoth never has power enough to create anything new on his own, all he can do is counterfeit. He cannot create light so he destroys the trees and steals the Silmarili, he needs to capture eagles to make flying dragons, he needs to capture elves to make Uruk Hai, etc. Tolkien is orders of magnitude deeper if you can read him through biblical lens.
🎯🙏🏽🎯. Yea, point on,mate…
And orders of magnitude deeper still if you can read it through it's own lense, without need for allegory on every facet of his creation..
How come all the orcs couldn’t climb walls/pillars like the ones in Moria in the movies, if they were both orc groups and not goblins? Seems like it would of been advantageous at minus tirith and helms deep to be able to climb the walls.
Orcs from moria had their armors designed after Durins bane, there was spikes in their shoes and gauntlets that Made climbing possible, also it came from necessity, they Made their homes on top of the pillars, safe from the flames
So ultimately orcs are hybridized clones. Weird because wasnt his end game to hide amongst them rather than raise hell so to speak.
And absolutely they're not Maiar, 12 maiar who joined melkor, they became Balrog, other than Sauron which was one of the mightiest of all maiar good or evil, in the same level as Eönwë
is there not a hope of healing the corrupted elves in the remaking of Arda ?
The original silmarillion!
It would have made more sense just to make them slightly evolved pigs and/or warthogs
Otherwise it would have been impossible to raise the large armies that they did in this short amount of time, as others have said there's a million plot holes and contrivances in these books, but we still enjoy them
No it's not a problem, and that they are corrupted elves is canon. It makes sense giving Melkors personality. Tolkien's letters are not canon
Original Silmarillion, please.
Everything*
The Original Silmarillion
The original Silmarillion
Everything You Need to Know to Get Up to Speed on the Orcs!!!
The arginine! Sal.
The original!
The original silmarilian
The original Silmarillion, down below.
The original silmarillion
Did orcs inherit immortality from the elves?
It was a mockery of himself.
Orcs, the ultimate jobbers of Middle Earth.
Framing device? I've been using one without even knowing what it was called. LOL Now on to other matters... In my Realms of Erda (Pronounced: Air duh) Orcs, Goblins, and Hobgoblins are different races. Orcs & Goblins were crafted by the gods during Arithorund ( Pronounced: Uh rith oh rund), the Waking Age of Erda. Hobgoblins along with Chymaveds (my version of Bugbears [WotC property]) came soon afterwards, as the two "parent" races intermixed. Hobgoblins & Chymaveds (Pronounced: Kee muh veds) interact regularly, but it is physical differences that delineate these two "children" races. Hobgoblins look more like their Goblin ancestors, having sharply pointed ears and noses. The Chymaveds by contrast have rounder ears and more bulbous noses, looking less Goblin-like. All four races can and will work together. Their future? Orcs have lived for too long under the lash of others, primarily the Dark Elves. They launch a rebellion and win their freedom (a novel in my next series). Goblins during the unrest of the Orc rebellion become a completely mercenary society; mining & crafting for whoever pays them the most. Hobgolins & Chymaveds, as a lesser evolved pair of races, remain in servitude, they know no other life.
Might want to proof read your title.
Original, please!
Video 294
who tf posts an marvel ad before a lotr video? blasphemy
A shame Broken Swoed wasted footage on that load of sewage, the hobbit movies. Non stop fight scenes and nothing like the novel. If you truly love Tolkien, avoid like the plague
Yeah, sure! But you already made several Videos on this topic!
That makes this for a.... fan.... former fan... Not enjoyable.
You made you´re lot. There is nothing new, you simply will not hold in the long run
Is this about ruZZians?
Pretty mediocre and redundant video. Plus this channel has sketchy numbers.
love Tolkien; all characters, the names, kingdoms & people, histories all the depth detail; orcs just corrupted elves this comes across flatfooted... I have never liked the fact that he made them corrupted elves (lame, cheesy, I am sorry but stupid !) then in my book if orcs are just corrupted elves then the two should be able to cross breed, & I could see the orcs still breeding on female elves just to defile them plus increase their numbers, & goblins & orcs are the same another one, maybe cuz I actually ran into D&D first, orcs are not elves nor goblins; none of this ever set well with me; he was so creative w/ everything else man just take another 5-10 minutes (just because you corrupt them does not change the fundamental base genes) now if there was a mutation (even like a magic induced mutation or just a mutation from some magic; or they feel into the something, ate something, a potion mutation would be the cause & it IS the reason for change; @ least for me it would sound better, be more logical, but Tolkien doesn't even suggest that, did Tolkien come straight out & say goblins, & orcs are just two different names for the same creature (not in D&D or AD&D) IDK I am probably a heretic
Since when was “choice” a moral problem with something like this? And since when the hell did it make a difference where evil behaviour and beings came from? All that matters is that they exist and need to be dealt with
because the larger implications is how likely they would be of being freed of that control and being able to be redeemed of their deeds. Its a pretty big deal especially considering how Gollum is in many ways the same as an Orc, a perversion of the goodness of Halflings, who's possible redemption was almost achieved if it wasn't for the actions others.